New Rules ****Update 11/8/2007****

Over the past couple of days we've been working on a solution that would allow greater adminstrative control in controlling comments on this blog. We feel quite a bit of the comments are childish and belong on someone else's blog. The purpose of us being here is to discuss the current state of the AAFCJ and its continued growth. With that being said, in 48 hours (11/10/2008) we are going to require those that wish to voice their opinion and add pertinant discussion in this matter become registered users to this blog. We feel this will do a couple of things.

1. Allow us to control the frivolous comments in this site by removing those users that continue to waste bandwidth by commenting on their affection for the opposite sex and have no relevance to this discussion.

2. Create an identity (although that identity can still remain anonymous if you so desire) which will hold that identity responsible for its comments. For example, Mike A, will be forever Mike A because he has registered his identity and no one will be able to attribute a comment to him unless it really is him as with other registered users. To register please create an email account using GMail at www.gmail.com or your prefered mail provider.

We are doing this because your voice really matters and we want it to ensure its influence is not diminished.

Please not that we have been contacted by leaders on both sides of this issue and both sides have positively reacted to the voicing of your opinions. (Don't ask who they are because we won't disclose that information.)

The rules below still apply.

Apostolic Voice
11/08/2007

*************************************************************************

Due to the amount of comments traffic and various other activities here, we are asking all participants to help us with the following:

Please post your comments in the appropriate sections.

* Bankrupt - Use this section if you wish to discuss accountability issues with the assembly leaders, ie., scams, scandals, swindles and various other questionable activities.

*AAFCJ Election Discussion Update - Keep this section clear for election related issues, not other scams scandals and so on. Remember Election related issues only.

*Shout Outs - Use this section for communicating activities, sending hello's or you affinity for each other, such as Sis. Nohemi Gonzales and/or Sergio Villanueva for example. Feel free to post your myspace pages in this section.

Thank you for your participation and helping with these guidelines. If you see some comments in the wrong section, politely remind them to continue the conversation in the appropriate section of your blog. This help with a smooth continuity of discussion and avoid clutter.

Thus Saith the Blogmaster!

Bankrupt

The subtitle might as well read "The Intellectual and Moral Bankruptcy of the Apostolic Assembly"

Who knew that a blog such as this would expose supposed wrong doing by so many men and women, young and old on both sides or on no side of the current AA situation.

In our age of instantaneous information available to all, accountability will be demanded. The old, smelly, stale carpet in our house has been removed and replaced with transparent glass thereby removing the opportunity for hidden agendas, intentions and actions to swept under the rug. On this new surface we will be able to see all the fingerprints, smears, smudges, mud and dirt. That is a good thing because they kinds of items can be easily cleaned, addressed as soon as they appear.

It almost hurts to read all the things hurled out about brothers I've held in high regard. It seems that as soon as a name comes it is like they are the object of a pie throwing contest in a county fair, including the dead including the recently deceased.

At the most very basic level the fault of the AA has that we have been taught not to question authority in any manner. The AA body has been taught to almost deify the man behind the pulpit or sitting in the big chair on the platform. We've been taught to roll out the red carpet, kiss their ring finger and believe that this person holds absolute authority. The ignorance of our forefathers treated leaders as though they where the high priests. As far as I know there is only one high priest.

As the newer generation moves into their own, we must realize they've been taught through higher learning institutions how to think critically: Question authority.

"Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action". http://www.criticalthinking.org/aboutCT/definingCT.shtml

Unfortunately, our under-educated pastors and ministers are still of the mentality that we must believe and act according to what the man behind the pulpits dictates. Why? Because if he is behind the pulpit it must be the truth. There really is no logic in this type of thinking, even though this is the mentality that rules the ignorant masses. Fortunately hermanos, we are no longer part of that ignorant mass.

And our leaders played us because of our ignorance, we've been lied to, cheated, talked about mis-treated (anyone recognize this song). We've had dogma shoved down our throats with no biblical validity but "if you don't do what the pastor says, you are disobedient and rebellious".

Pastors/ministers/bishops/leaders, do me favor and stop preaching about the way I look on the outside. You are filled with sin, filth and deceit on the inside. Don't worry about sisters wearing pants, they are not going to hell because of it. There is absolutely no biblical validity to this! God does not love a pant wearer any less then a non-pant wearer. Don't preach to me about wearing jewelry, there to is no biblical validity to this either. I can use the same argument about watches and broaches, it is just stupid! The veil...let's not even go there.

We are saved by God's Grace not by what you think I should look like. It's funny how you think you can make God love someone more because of the way YOU want them to look.

In reality what you are doing is exactly what you've been doing - living a double standard and causing those in your congregations to live with double standards.

I teach my children to behave the same way when they are with me and when they are not with me. I teach them not to hide from me, I teach them that, I, as there father am not perfect and will make mistakes. And when I do make mistakes I will need their help and support. I teach them that they will make mistakes and they do not need to hide those mistakes from me because I will be there for them and not for the purpose of knocking them down. I teach my children that you are going to make mistakes, be selfish in your decision making and guidance (I do this because of your past history of looking out for your best interest and not mine) and not accurately apply God's word. I teach them it is their responsibility to take what you spoken and verify its validity with God's word - ...study to show thyself approved.

When you get behind the pulpit this coming Sunday, please remember, I am probably more educated than you, I probably make more money than you. I've spent countless hours studying God's word, studying for my degrees and analyzing financial and legal documents for real world business decisions. In my career I am compensated by helping other individuals and corporations make short and long term business projections. The bottom line is, I can see a grift coming from a mile away. (If you notice sometimes I wear my boots on Sunday.)

Spare me the dogma, God saved us by his grace, fortunately not your ignorance. It is because of your past decisions we have come to an intellectual and moral bankruptcy in our beloved organization.

We must reorganize and refocus our efforts in teaching God's grace, not Apostolic Assembly dogma.

Dios les pague

ApostolicVoice
Blogmaster

AAFCJ Election Discussion Update

The comment section for the original Election Irregularities blog has reached an overwhelming amount of of opinions (1,015+). As we approach the coming General Convention in November, it is important that this medium for the discussions regarding the Elections and Lawsuit continue, therefore tonight at 12am we will be stopping the comments from the original blog and will ask that you continue the discussion under this current blog.


Those comments will not be deleted but saved for all to review and add their opinion in this updated section. (They can be viewed here: http://apostolicnews.blogspot.com/2007/09/apostolic-assembly-2006-election.html)


We would also like to add that you may feel free to send in pictures, videos and comments of your local, district and national services. They will be posted here. You can email them to apostolicvoice@gmail.com

Your voice is being heard. Now, keep your eyes and ears open.

Dios Les Bendiga,
Apostolic Voice
Blogmaster

ps.
I don't know about you all but I am in serious prayer for the Arizona Diamondbacks. Is it wrong to fast tomorrow for their victory over the Colorado Rockies?

SHOUT OUT!*****UPDATE 11/18/07*****

**UPDATE 11/18/07**

The Blogmaster would like to send a SHOUT OUT! to all those representing the following cities(visitors to this site), in order of most active:

West Hollywood
Montclair
Midland
Tempe
Laguna Hills
Los Angeles
Chicago
Dallas
Loma Linda
Maywood
Santa Fe Springs
Glendale
San Lorenzo
West Covina
Fresno
Austin
New York
Mcallen
Spokane
San Diego
Chino
Odessa
Rowland Heights
Monterey Park
Selah
Houston
Pompano Beach
Ontario
Irving
National City
Carrollton
La Jolla
Harlingen
Montebello
Victorville
Alameda
Pomona
Pittsburgh
Sunnyvale
San Leandro
Modesto
March Afb
East Meadow
Corona
Albuquerque
Huntington Park
Hurst
Bluffton
Humble
(not set)
Empire
San Jose
Abilene
Phoenix
Tualatin
Santa Maria
Alviso
Belmont
Silver Spring
East Irvine
Tolleson
Norcross
Pasadena
Carmichael
Seattle
Laurel
Wildomar
Farmersville
Portland
Gilbert
Dyess Afb
Las Vegas
La Habra
Stafford
Grand Terrace
Tijuana
Cerritos
La Puente
Addison
Duluth
Garden Grove
San Juan
Richardson
Oakland
Rancho Cucamonga
San Marcos
Ogden
Sanger
Oxnard
Lemon Grove
Placentia
Tracy
Upland
Santo Domingo
Hesperia
Hughson
Lakewood
Walnut
Thousand Oaks
Phelan
Alhambra
Miami
Riverside
Tucson
North Miami Beach
Denver
San Ramon
Whittier
Cathedral City
Milpitas
Indio
Torrance
Fontana
Perris
La Mirada
Norman
Sun City
Jamestown
Tucker
Glendale
La Palma
Beverly Hills
Haltom City
Indian Wells
Santa Clara
Dublin
Alamo
Yuma
El Paso
Bell Gardens
Takoma Park
Boston
Encinitas
Bloomington
Santa Ana
Buena Park
Scottdale
San Francisco
Ceres
Herndon
Pico Rivera
Sacramento
Windsor
Artesia
Kaysville
Gardendale
Bellevue
Rialto
Englewood
Manteca
Fullerton
La Paz
Hacienda Heights
Downey
Bellflower
South El Monte
Opa Locka
Vista
Kerman
San Jacinto
Brea
Mountain View
Anaheim
South Orange
Foothill Ranch
Diamond Bar
Orange
Rancho Santa Fe
High Point
Kingston
River Forest
Pleasant Garden
New Braunfels
Valley Village
Pensacola
Pharr
Bakersfield
Los Alamitos
Panorama City
Columbia
Hilton Head Island
Milwaukee
Villa Park
Hayward
Merced
Santa Barbara
Inglewood
Newbury Park
Weslaco
Davenport
South Pasadena
Union City
Fremont
San Bernardino
Menifee
Catonsville
Oklahoma City
Colton
Lake Elsinore
Hialeah
Covina
Temecula
Baldwin Park
El Centro
Moreno Valley
Elmwood Park
North Hollywood
Mesa
Paradise Valley
Meridian
Bloomington
Canyon Country
Nogales
Carson
Palm Desert
San Antonio
El Mirage
Tahoka
Davenport
Culver City
Lathrop
St Louis
Boise
Beaumont
Nashville
Tampa
Lubbock
Vestal
Eugene
Sioux Falls
Atlanta
Honolulu
Devon
Marina
Midway City
Morrisville
Salida
Rancho Mirage
Nipomo
Roswell
Oak Park
Bensenville
Palatka
Tacoma
Mount Laurel
Racine
Monterrey
Newark
Long Beach
Irvine
Ripon
Lynwood
Wood Dale
Studio City
Cypress
Brisbane
Compton
San Luis Rey
Mission
Loomis
Gardena
Lilburn
Ashburn
Guadalajara
Barcelona
Poway
Fishers
Linden
San Marcos
Hawthorne
Westlake
Norwalk
Mentone
Commerce
Lafayette
Tustin
La Mesa
Ensenada
Hill Afb
Mcclellan
Bell
Irvington
Baltimore
Norco
Riverbank
Astoria
Redford
Arvada
Springfield
Temple City
Canyon
Hawthorne
Hillside
Rex
Yakima
Bedford
Bronx
Lawndale
Rosemead
Woods Cross
Monrovia
Eden Prairie
Laredo
Orlando
City of Industry
Bremerton
Millington
Ottawa
North Richland Hills
Stockbridge
Mira Loma
Garland
Del Mar
Grand Prairie
Pleasanton
Vancouver
Tok
Sunol
Costa Mesa
Kirtland Afb
Marina Del Rey
El Monte
Coppell
Corrales
Shreveport
Harwood Heights

There are 326 cities represented here.

Felicidades,

Apostolic Voice

Blogmaster

Can you hear me now? Good!

No matter what side of the election story you as the Apostolic Assembly body are on, it seems that we agree on one thing. The CID is bad. One person wrote:

So why waist so much money having an electoral convention add to that the time waist by 600+ MoG(7 AM to 6 PM) , if the Qualifying commission allowed the disqualification of the majority vote nominee.

This speaks clearly of the type of pastoral leadership we have in the Assembly. For not 1 on of the 600+ spoke out against the CID in the years prior to the election including all the Bishops!
I know some Pastor's look for yes men in their churches, those that will follow blindly, but these Pastor's should be held accountable as well for allowing this to happen. Pastor's need not be yes men and follow blindly in order that they can move to the next level.

This smacks 4 of the 9 problems that plagues our organization that a previous brother or sister articulated so well:

1. Authoritarian Hierarchy.

2. Lack of Accountability.

6.Local congregations not a true priority.

9. Organization more important than Jesus or people.

Demand that the CID is removed!

I'll wear this button at he convention.

1. It is not going against and does not disrespect any Man of God.

2. It tells the Pastoral, Episcopal, and GB bodies that will not tolerate political tactics in the affairs of our desire to seeking God's plan in our organization!

3. It holds all that voted for it accountable to the entire Assembly constituency.

4. And It does so in a way that is respectful and in silent.

We could design different respectful signs referencing the CID and have them placed strategically throughout the conference. This will be more effective than any lawsuit.

Things That Make You Go Hmmmm.....?

We at Apostolic News do not take sides in this present 2006 General Election Irregularities issue, however there are some tough questions that need to be asked. After all "We Report, You Decide".

Question #1:
What is going to happen "if" the pro-lawsuit group proceeds with their lawsuit and "if" it is thrown out, rejected or those involved found not guilty?

Question #2:
Are they going to publicly apologize for dragging this entire Assembly through the gutter and opening the closets of what where some of the most admired men in our organization?

Question #3:
How will they be held accountable?

Question #4:
Will they be labeled as division makers as the bible dictates?

Question #5:
Should the Assembly seek punitive damages and reimbursement of legal fees?

Question #6:
Will we the people allow them to continue ministering in our churches?

Question #7:
What will happen if they decide to settle out of court (as we think those negotiations are going on now)?

Question #8:
Where they only doing this for political positioning?

Question #9:
If they do settle out of court how does the Assembly heal the strife and chaos caused by all this?

Question #10:
"If" the pro-lawsuit group walks away or the legal verdict is not in their favor, we should demand accountability on their behalf?

Questions #11:
Will they try to brush this entire debacle under the rug?

Questions #12:
Why does the man in this picture have a Ritz cracker pinned to the lapel of his jacket?

A Historical Perspective

Tonight while I was cleaning up the shenanigans of a few kids spraying graffiti on our Apostolic News blog, I came across this post that was emailed in. I do not take credit for it, I cannot verify its authenticity. I did not even edit for grammer. Please read "as is", stuffed in my inbox. A few old timers should chime in here and give us their perspective.

Author Anonymous

A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THIS BOARD OF THE APOSTOLIC ASSEMBLY IN THE FAITH IN CHIRST JESUS CAME TO THIS CRISES.

IN THE YEAR OF 1925 the first convention was held in San Bernardino,California
General Pastor Francisco F. Llorente
Ancianos Pastor Antonio Castaneda Nava, Jose Martinez L. Martinez.
Secretario Convencionista, Bernardo Hernandez.

This continued for several years, cannot go into deep detail. See
"Historia de la Asamblea de la Fe en Cristo Jesus 1916-1966.

See and read whose names is all over the pages, who gets all the credit. How President Francisco Llorente was found be by the Elder
Antonio Nava to be "not really doing his job.(Brother Llorente)
Nava very shudrely "left to Mexico" to visit relatives and how a "Commission" conspired by Nava to "ask" Brother Llorente to "resign" because according to Nava Brother Llorente was not "evangelizing sufficently.

Brother Llorente, an anointed man of God, bi-lingual and very humble and a prayer warrior. Brother LLorente was a great leader and was at one time known to have worn "women shoes", because of the Great Depression crises.There was extreme poverty and lack of everything for everyone in the U.S.A.

Brother LLorente was notified by a messenger before hand that this "commission" was going to present to Brother Llorente the faults that this "commission"was going to present to Brother Llorente, as he was found guilty of non compliance to continuing evangelizing. This was cruel because he was not even tried.

Knowing when the "committee" was coming to meet with Brother Llorente. Brother LLorent became very ill and had a cardiac arrest the "commission" or "committee" got there. The "committee" got there in time for the funeral services.

THEN BROTHER NAVA RETURNED> NEVER being presentin FUTURE WHEN CRISES AROSE. BUT RETURNED IN TO TIME TO "ASSUME" THE PRESIDENCY FOR 30 long years. Not allowing elections. It was when pressure was put by Brother Arturo Hermosillo and Brother Epifanio Cota Senior, and Brother Paublo Garcia Chavez, from Arizona, New Mexico that the elections were forced to be held.....
Brother Nava could not run again because he would not become a USA citizen because there was NO double citizenship then and he had alot of properties in Mexico> Encenada and Rocarito along the coast..WOW..

So the story goes on till now the same old same old.
No matter who was President of the Apostolic Assembly, Brother Nava always had the "LAST AND FINAL WORD"
That is when Brother Efrain Valverde and Brother Nava "Locked horns in the Convention in the 1970 at the San Diego Concourse.

In the late l960's Brother Nava unfortaunately had an automobile accident on a dark night going home from church on the rainy night on Whittier Boulevard in East Los Angeles, California.

The woman crossing the "legal" cross walk was killed at DOA at Los Angeles General Hospital.
This terrible accident "neutralized" Brother Nava "a little tiny bit" had to move to Union City where he had "removed" a pastor there and set his son in law there till this day....

This is why Brother Baldemar had a "HEY" DAY FOR 23 years in the Board...because Brother Nava had been "nutralized" in other words a "LAME DUCK" as in Politics.

He lived to be over 100 years...GET THE PICTURE....GET IT GOOD. IT WILL TAKE REBUKING, PRAYER, FASTING AND MORE REBUKING...IN THE NAME OF JESUS TO TAKE THIS GENERATION CURSE AWAY FORVER IN THE NAME OF JESUS./

BROTHER NAVA NEVER WAS TRIED IN COURT BECAUSE BROTHER LUIS HERRERA WORKED IN COURT AND helped out.....

Maybe you will know why this has irrupted...Its been a loooonnnngggg
time due. God save...Many Pastors left, Brother Martinez, Brother Lupe Lara, when Brother Nava took his congregation...
They all learned and learned good..