COMMENTS HAVE BEEN DISABLED IN THIS SECTION. FEEL FREE TO COMMENT IN THE LATEST BLOG. Apostolic VoiceThe election irregularities of the 2006 General Convention impact the members of its organization in different ways. After seeing the way this has been used for a one sided discussion, it is imperative that an unbiased view be allowed to moderate its discussion.
For those that are aware of the legal implications and jockeying, please feel free to add your opinion here. As previous stated, this site will be moderated for its content.
1,047 comments:
1 – 200 of 1047 Newer› Newest»Are we to assume that this site is under new management?
I heard a rumor that the lawsuit was supposed to be filed as of last week. Has of the legal beagles searched for the records in this action?
so what happened to all the previous posts? and where is the link to the letters?
Irregualrities in the election are not new. Its been the apostolic way for decades.
I believe, as its my humble opinion, that there are also "Irregularities" in the accounting of the AA.
Since the AA is closely tied to the Nava Foundation, whom has taken the responsability to care for the insurance needs of the ministerial body, and there is a cross-over in members of the AA GB who serve as Board of Directors of the Nava Foundation, that there would be some proper accounting of the GB's non-profit status.
Not to mention how the AA is known to have its "Preferred Lender" whom just happens to be the right hand man of the AA VP, whom whose "preferred bank" is tied to TELACU, The East Los Angeles Community Union.
Lots of "irregularities" to go around.
Sure does . Can you just see what would happen if he wins the next elections. Talk about "irregularities". God help us! the VP is up to his shoulders in muck and its just getting thicker
Los lideres apostolicos tiene un responsabilidad.
Yes they do, to have the decent common respect to admit that they blew it. How in the world does anyone with just 2 votes out of 600 win an election unless strings were pulled
God help us if Valverde is elected President in the next election. Talk about sneaky underhanded stuff now, Wait til then. the whole family will have a position, and on the assembly payroll. And talk about the trips and box seats now on the company credit card wait til then
oficial statement:
Paciencia mis hermanos. Como dije anteriormente. Está a la vuelta de la esquina. La carrera es con paciencia y sabiduria. No estamos encontra de la autoridad, solo estamos encontra de las injusticias. Si vamos ha darle credito al diablo, vamos ha darselo donde en verdad aplica. Donde parece que pudo haber obrado es en las elecciones. Solo un ciego puede creer que no se hizo nada mal. Pero aun un ciego puede oir. El que tiene oidos para oir...
La demanda está a la vuelta de la esquina. Los hermanos no han quitado el dedo del renglón. El Pres. D. Sanchez dice que nunca se va hacer, pero pronto sabrá que sí es una realidad. El hermano Maffey dice que es puro humo, pero también se va ha dar cuenta que todo esto es un realidad.
From the previous webmaster, yes, this site is under new management. All the content from the old site was deleted when the site was deleted. Whoever manages this blog, went in and registered using the old -- deleted -- name.
a Man of God MUST
A wise man once said that three things a Man of God MUST guard against.
1. Lana ( Money )
2. Fama ( Fame / Pride )
3. Dama ( Dames / Women )
No truer words were ever spoken.
Yes, this site is under new management. This site will remain up for a long time. We, this includes you, want this web to be a true unbiased voice of the Apostolic Church and its constituents.
We need to realize that we are the body of the Assembly and the body of Christ. And as that body, we are going to go through growing pains in various stages in our lives. Sometimes we get a sore leg, a stomach ache, a big 'ol pimple on the tip of our nose(this always seemed to happen right before the convention). We address what ailes us, and sometimes we are embarrassed to let others know what ailes us but we eventually move on.
We have been under the weather for sometime now. The Nyquil we've been taking is not working. We need professional help!
But we will move on.
You will not know what side this blog master stands, sometimes I'll agree with you other times I will not.
Discussion is what we are after.
We will get better, and we will be stronger!
"a big 'ol pimple on the tip of our nose"
I never had one of those!
I noticed that the convention flyer was made by a company with the website "http://tmgdesignstudio.com/"
Is this Sam Valverde's son's company? Is this another sign of impropriety? Is their a competitive bidding process, or are contracts given out on another basis?
Just a question.
I would add to the previous comment, "how much was charged for the artwork?"
Is really strange that S V is our vice- and his congregation doesnt care for the AA ,they dont go to sector, dictrict services they dont bother to participate unless they go to offer his materials, the same in the AA bookstore the only series or teachings are his.It looks like the only thing they care for is our AA money.
I have said it once and I will say it again . . . Our people need to start seeking truth! I am not referring to what happened in the 2006 Elections, but in what the AA believe. Our organization in which I grew up in has adopted heretical views in so many areas and the irregularity of the election should not be what we should worry about but our doctrine our core beliefs and ultimately our Salvation!
The GB, Pastors, Ministers have entrapped our people and burden them with extra “”do’s” and “don’ts”; With these men made laws the GB is able to entrap our elders and pastors to fear them and they (elders and pastors) in return do the same to their congregation. Do we want to be in an organization which bases is to instill fear? Think about it.
Fear my AA fellow is equivalent to control and control is equivalent to wichcraft and wichcraft is equivalent to religious spirit.
Ironically try to remain anonymous is a form a fear. It has been said that many have remained anonymous because of fear of retaliation; from whom? God! I think not.
The GB knows they are not in the right. They have admitted such in private on several ocasions, but they deny it in public. Nevertheless, it will all come out in court. The only reason they are fighting to the bitter end is that they know the game is up for them. They know that if they resign or allow new elections it is all over for them. They love power and position too much for them to allow that to happen, but in court they won't stand a chance. There is way too much evidence. Only a blind and deaf judge can save them now Our leaders continue to mislead. They are saying things that are not true. The President is saying that all the Bishops, but one were agreement of the explanation of the "CID" at the April 18th meeting. As everybody knows by now, he also sent out a letter to all the Pastors where he did not tell the truth about who was involved in the Demand Letter. He is trying to downplay the situation but it is too late. Everybody already knows how serious it is. Many also know that the whole thing was planned ahead of time. Reprisals have already taken place. He has recently said that the document that they interpreted to serve their personal interests should not be called "CID." He says that is lack of respect. I agree with that it should not be called "CID." I think it should be called "SIDA." It is an instrument that has infected the Church in an adverse manner, because it has not been used in a consistent manner. They qualified candidates that did not have "Derecho" and disqualified some who did have it. Some Pastors are still being approved by the President himself as candidates and elected as well as Bishops and Elders who do not qualify according to the way they have interpreted the "CID." Inconsistency is what has been the downfall with the "CID." At a recent convention, a Pastor who had left the Assembly and came back just recently was approved as candidate and was elected an Elder. The President was informed about the matter before the election took place and he knew about the case as well, but he still approved the Pastor as candidate. Another Pastor who is still not legally documented, was approved and elected as Elder at the same convention by the President. The only consistency about all this is the inconsistencies by the GB. The violations continue. It seems that nothing else will stop them short of a lawsuit. They admit in private that they made many mistakes at the elections, but they won't admit it publicly. All that will come out in court. They admit the mistakes, but continue to make the same ones over and over. Does that seem that they are sincere? What are the dangers if nothing is done? There are already rumors that they intend to take out one way or another the people who signed the demand letter. This is seeping out from their office personnel whom they have obligated to sign a document that deprives them of speaking out on this issue. That is the mentality of our GB. They want to destroy anyone who disagrees with them at all costs.
you
got
it
Timothy Valverde
10415 Hillside Rd
Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91737-2349
(909) 484-1343
Find Neighbors
lives
with
his
mamma
and
daddt
If the GB does take action againts those that signed the letter, it would make for good blogging content. I could see how down the road, blogs like this can document the reprisals againts the men that signed the demand letter.
Any update on the lawsuit?
Also, does anybody have a copy of the CID? I would think that that the letter could be sent to the webmaster, and he could copy and paste into a post.
You have to stop preaching to the choir. You all are writing opinions as Johnny-come-lately. The problem is that you do not know the Constitution and you do not know history of the Apostolic Assembly. You are 35 years old. That is not long enough. This Assembly has been in existence for pretty close to 90 years. I’ve been around for 70. And if I know anything, I know BR. And I even knew Daniel Sanchez father. So believe me, I know where they are coming from and where they are going. They are both manipulators, controllers and out for money. Baldemar is standing by to see the whole thing collapse and he’ll be there to rescue it and re-assume control. He is being supported by people who do not know his history. In his lifetime as an Apostolic, he has pastored 3 churches in the Rio Grande Valley in Texas; Sebastian, Mission, and Edinburg. All these church never had more than 20 members. He came to California and took a church that was already established by Bro. Francisco Gallego. He used the same system of fraudulent elections to be President and Vice President of the Assembly for over 20 years. Heavy duty politician. He is no different than Dan Sanchez or Dan Salomon. These people are all the same. There must a Moses out there that God will surface because we know that the prayers of the saints that have gone on still are at the throne of God. With God’s help, prayer and fasting, we will prevail. No temas ni desmayes…
yep that is tim valverde's company. big surpise huh?!
I'm not for bashing people, but some of these interworking business deals seem a bit too much just to keep ignoring.
As an example to the believers, GBs must elevate thier level of administration to remove any doubt of impropriety. I wonder if TMF manages the AA's website, as well?
sure
does
pay
to
be
a
son
of
a
bishop
If you zillow the address of the Valverde, it's 1.3 million. Not bad.
Actually, is this decent in Rancho or a bit on the cheap side?
If you know the Constitution you know of article 4 XIX Bro. Rodriguez cannot run for any position anymore, you better united with him dear 70 and help the church with this ordeal.
I agree that Bishop Rodriguez had more to loose than to gain from taking this issue forward.
If you knew of Bro BR system of fraudulent elections for 20 years why you didnt say something at the time?
the
eye
of
the
needle
must
be
in
Rancho
Cucamonge
Ok, ok, so the past GBs manipulated elections: so what?
This is a new era, with a whole new generation of tithe paying members. And for the most part, many more are educated and in a workforce plagued by corporate fraud and CEO misconduct. So, when we see this creeping in or emerging from the Assembly that is supposed to lead us out of this ole' world into the promise land, I have a bit of an issue with the whole process.
Eye of the needle? I don't get it.
BR doesn't have to be President to run the Assembly. Because he's already doing it by fooling the Pastors that he is for the Assembly when in reality he is suing the it. He and Dan Salomon joined together when they never got along before. You and I with our tithes and offerings and la Flor Azur will wind up paying for this lawsuit.
lets
not
forget
tamales
time
for
the
USSR/AA
to
break
up
Sanchez
is
our
Stalin
haha sanchez is for stalin...i love it! i'll have to pass that one on.
Convert
Hugo
Chavez
He'd
be
the
perfect
apostolic
bishop
To answer "if I knew about the fraud in the elections 20 years ago, why did't I say something?
I did tell many Pastors. But they just said to wait on the Lord. In reality, they would not risk their positions to address this. They still won't. And we (members) do not have a voice or vote. However, that time has arrived. Thank God, He heard our prayers.
Malverde, sometimes known as the "narco-saint", is a folklore hero in the Mexican state of Sinaloa. He is not officially recognized as a saint by the Catholic Church.
To "Preaching to the Choir": You are mistaken my dear Brother. Bishop Baldemar Rodriguez is not out to get a position. Constitutionally he is not able to run again for President. He was asked to help by many people. He is sacrificing a lot. Please don't make accusations when since you are definitely not very well informed. Many people say they have many years of experience, but sometimes it is just one year of experience repeated over 70 years. Age is not necessarily an indicator of wisdom and experience. It is how you use the experience that can help you become wise.
To my noble friend defending Ex-Bishop Baldemar Rodriquez,you have spoken with wisdom. I agee that his involvement had nothing to do with his gain. He was willing to take it all even if it meant jeopardizing his legacy. This is a true man of God. His example reminds me where the Psalmist David writes in Psalms 24:1-5 in the new version "If the Lord had not been on our side (let all Israel admit it), if the Lord had not been on our side, we would have been swallowed alive by our enemies, destroyed by their anger. We would have drowned beneath the flood of these men's fury and pride." Thank you servants for justice we appreciate you!!
Just a quick legal advise: Be careful and wise in what you post because slander and defamation DO hold up in any court of law in the land. Teasing and rumors may not but slander and defamation do. ANYONE who's name is posted and name is bluntly slandered and accused of something direct can and should file a defamatory lawsuit . . . oh and by the way, things ARE traceable (so be careful if your computer is registered to your parents)for those of you who don't think they are. Just some sound, unbiased legal advise.
Is it true that before Valverde became pastor of fontana, that he used to sell oranges(fruit) door to door?
I know of this sermon preached by a well known upc minister, called
"From the Oil, to the Gold"
Valverde's message can be similar:
"From the Oranges, to the Gold".
How are contracts given out to work for the convention? How much do they pay?
How much is Tim Valverde's Contract to promote the convention?
As a 501c3 Religious Non-Profit, do we, the members have a right to know?
How much did the AA pay Victor Prado Jr. for Designing the Stage at the last youth convention?
Do we the members of the AA have the right to public disclosure?
How many PK's work in one form or the other either by contract or employment for the AA?
Christian Tabernacle (CT)
It seems there are several locations for CT, under the supervision of Abel Aguilar.
Has CT formed its own separate ministry from the AA?
Should the AA have supervision of spinoffs of CT, such as JAAM?
Should one church be allowed to open its own satellite churches and appoint its own pastors without the authorization of the AA?
The following is not fact, just my own PERSONAL opinion:
It was very disappointing to hear that Bishop Baldemar Rodriguez is part of this. How someone of his caliber and status can reduce himself to the level that he has is tragic. What a legacy to leave for his grandchildren, for his church, for his wife, what a testimony. It is a grave shame that he could not accept that his terms in office and his time in the lime light are over. From my understanding he kept being nominated (by himself?), and accepting nominations for every position. And embarrasingly, kept being rejected. Everything has a season and his is over.
How ironic that he now is against something that he himself manipulated for many years? He was President of the Assembly for what seemed like my whole child hood- I can't remember who the President of the U.S. was and when during my childhood years, but I remember Bishop Rodriguez being in office for ever! Now he wants to bite the hand that feeds him.
Another opinion: the present GB did wrong. But the accusors in this case are no better. No one else stays in their job when they have a pending litigation case against their present employer. You go on a temporary leave.
Just a "what-if" question to ponder: IF there is a re-election and the present GB is re-elected fairly and legally, will Bishop Rodriguez and his crew still be up in arms? Yes, because if they were to be on the GB, it would be THEIR turn to manipulate the positions.
Also, shouldn't you give up your Pastorship while you are on the GB? How many positions can you possibly hold at once? You can't give 100% to all of them. GB, pastorship, bishop, elder- gees, believe it or not, there are MANY OTHER capable men that can do the jobs also.
Just my opinion . . .
Bro Baldemar never appointed one of his family members to be in the GB with him, thats the mess we have in this past election, a cousin (Pacheco)and a brother in law (Arturo Espinoza) plus many friends with only 2 votes.
Everyone talks about the bishops, past presidents, GB members, but what about the regular apostolic member?
The regular member who come to the church, live their lives, work, support their families, give, tithe, go to the camps, make the tamales, buy the tacos on sunday, buy the cd's made by the aspiring singers, back up the "live recordings". What about us?
ApostolicGate
Gaddi Vasquez can save us!
Save us Gaddi! Save us! The AA is GOP. God's Own Party.
Just responding to various posts:
What various locations for CT are under Bishop Aguilar?
I wonder if the retaining of the attorneys by Brother Baldemar and his colleagues is being paid for by them.
Tim Valverde's company promotes the convention? So is this HIS personal company or a company he works for?
Should a church be allowed to open up satellite churches and appoint Pastors without of the approval of the AA? Isn't that done all the time? Isn't that why we have churches 6 blocks of each other, each with 20 members?
What's the difference between a 'misison' and a 'church'? Anyone?
Why all the Valverde bashing? They're not the only ones or the obvious ones. And quite honestly, if any of US had our daddy's on the GB, we'd be just as involved as these kids are.
Are those truly injustices or is the green-eyed monster showing it's ugly head?
To the Regular Apostolic Member:
What ABOUT you? What ABOUT us? If we all stop giving at the sector, district and national levels, we'd hit them where it hurts. We should give our tithes to our local church but other other than that- no other money should go out on a higher level.
Conventions? I'm boycotting. Why should I have to pay for registration when I've already given countless 'offering' for all these projects? If they took as much time to preach the word of God as they do picking up the offerings and giving each other homage- it would be good. But they have to introduce themselves and glorify themselves for about an hour before they can proceed.
What is it with that? You can't even go to an Apostolic funeral and it being about the deceased. It's always about the delegation. By the time they're introduced and acknowledged . . . and re-acknowledged . . . and acknowledged yet again. . . well--you tend to forget where you are.
Boycotting people- boycotting.
Valverde is a target of criticism because he makes himself an open target with the content of his sermons and his actions.
1. He once denounced pastors that
recieve members and ministers
from other churches, he said
it was a form of recruiting.
He's the King of Recruiting.
2. He once said in one of his
sermons that in order to marry,
applying this standard for his
youth, that a guy should have
completed college, have a
career, and own a house.
Not a bad standard for someone
who is a college drop out and
used the church as his career.
3. He preaches a lot about
about ethics. Which is good,
when you live ethical.
The first piece of land he
purchased in fontana, well,
I can't spill the beans for
obvious reasons.
4. He's a self promoting guru.
Every big service you go to
he has his minions selling
his sermons. From End Time,
District Services, Conventions,
he's selling them everywhere.
Right out of the TBN Model.
I agreed, let's tighten our purse strings when it comes to anything higher than our local churches. There are WAY TOO many projects. Most churches can't even stay afloat because any money coming in has to be for some district or national project.
Years ago, there was a certain district youth president who would over charge for the district youth camps. As for the money made, the camp was paid off for ($90 per person, while they charged over $200 per person), and the rest was spit between the district youth board with the majority going to him. This my friends, is at ALL levels in our AA, not just national.
Something to ponder: If the GB, employed by the AA, has their travel expenses paid by the AA, are other member of the other national groups(MOP, DORCAS, VARONES, JR.S)alotted the same privilege?
What is the election process, if any, for those groups? Anyone?
Why all the Valverde bashing?
Because he is the mastermind of this election mess.
To Anti-Valverde:
Aren't most of our churches full of ex-members from other churches? That's one of the benefits of living in Southern CA, there's another AA church right around the corner. If people want to move to your church, it's their choice, you can't turn them away.
As far as his marrying standards set for his youth, how long ago was that sermon because . . .
Oh come on, spill the beans. . .
As for his self promotion-- don't most do that? You can't come out of a service without stepping into the Apostolic Media Center blackhole--- everyone has a CD. From the preacher to the person who has no business singing other than in the shower.
So-- spill the beans :)
Why is he such a blessed man then? Why is his church growing so much? You can't say that's it's only due to his recruiting methods of other members because they have 20-30 baptisms of souls every few months. Souls, my dear friend. Souls. That's his recruiting method. Whether or not he is self-promoting (aren't we all at a certain level), you gotta hand it to him, he's got an awesome church.
I think that's the problem with most of these 30 member churches in our area that have been around for years. They have no programs, the pastor has no vision, they lack organization, they're stuck in the 70's with the same old songs and accordians and then they wonder why people leave. And then when people want to leave, they run crying to the Bishop so that he can stop them.
My dear friends, we are in our every right to attend ANY church we desire whether or not your present pastor likes it. You can go anywhere of your choosing. Just go where you will grow, learn and be fed.
Recruiting? You want recruiting? Brother Pacheco tries to recruit any key-board player he can, and with pay. Several Pastors in the Interior District do, THAT'S recruiting, when you have to offer people money to go to your church. It's pathetic, they try and recruit musicians from any other churches but when members try and leave their churches, they're blacklisted.
To the Baldemar Support up a few entries: Brother Bademar may not have ever appointed family to the GB but he certainly had his fill of being part of the corruption when appointing many friends of his.
Give names.
LOL! Yes, I was approached by Brother Pacheco to play at his church for quite a hefty sum. I was also approached by another Pastor near by. But being that I am very blessed with my Pastor and the way he runs our church and handles our finances, I stay and play with my church for the best pay in the world----- for His HONOR & GLORY. You couldn't get me to leave my church for any reason.
Give names? Do you think I'm stupid or what? Why do you think we are ALL anonymous here?
Why if this is a blog about the AA election irregularities, it's turned into a free-for all, out of the wood works bashing on anyone with any position?
So Brother Valverde is now a master-mind, on top of all his other attributes?
To recruiter,
You need to get your numbers straight. A large part of their membership is "transfer" membership. Baptisms there are higher than the majority of all the Apostolic churches, but they are certainly not hitting the numbers that you have stated.
Bro. Valverde is a good communicator. The problem is he regurgitates other mainstream pastor's sermons and material. So in reality, Fontana is being pastored by what I call "sudo" pastors. You have to hand it to Rick Warren, he pastors churches that he never even stepped a foot in, ie. Fountain Of Truth.
So the real question is, who really is pastoring Fountain of Truth? Who really is being the so-called effective pastor at FOT? Rick Warren, Sam Valverde or TD Jakes?
Amen to that
Well let's see, the last time I attended a Harvest Service with them because my niece got baptized, there were 27 baptisms. A few months later I went because I just wanted to, they baptized 22, so it's fair to say I have my numbers straight.
As far as any regurgitattion, make sure you don't choke on your own.
Better to go to Valverde's FOT than to go to El Siloe.
At least Valverde uses Rick Warren. Pastor Abel must get his material from those old apostolic comic books.
You people have Pastor Sam all wrong. If not for Pastor Sam, the AA GB would not have been invited to the White House to meet with Karl Rove.
We have irregularities and come short of an audit.
Talk about irregularities, did you all read about the Food Bank Scandal we had here in San Diego?
A certain apostolic church, and a few from other denominations, would go to the San Diego Food Banks, to get food and other items that were donated from stores such as Vons, Ralphs, Walmart, that were intended to assist needy families.
What these churches did was load up their trucks and vans with food, then turned around and sold them to the members and door to door.
Selling what was supposed to be given to the poor.
What a shame. I think you can google it.
It's the green-eyed monster peeping it's ugly head. Most pastors don't have the vision, the will, or the desire to do what Bishop Valverde has done at FOT. Whether or not you like him, agree with him or care for him at all. He's got something going on in his church that most don't have in their own churches. There's a reason why people are flocking there and it has nothing to do with recruitment. People go there for different reasons, but they go. Most churches in our area are over 50 years old and still can't get over a 30 member capacity. They're stuck in their traditions and refuse to see anything other. They need to move aside and let new fresh Pastors with a vision and ability to do things instead of making their churches suffer until their retirement.
think the only ones whose morale and faith is being tested are those who are more involved with the organization than they are with the work of God. There is a difference. There are lots of churches in the AA that are moving forward with work as usual. This type of thing does not hit home and there is no slight of morale on anyone's part. There are members however that live for Assembly events and have not real concern for the work of God and they might be all worked up into this.
I'll never forget the first few members I met at my church when I moved. They had no clue what a District was, a District choir, a Sector, etc. And with good reason! they were converts of only 1-2 years and they completely plug away in the work of the local church. They were amazed when I told them about conventions and such. Believe me though... I'm in no hurry to bother taking them to one either. I want their impression of the church to be what they see at our local congregation. Free of politics, free of chuisme, and a sincere love for God and his work.
lol you people are funny. Valverde has 350 people at his church and you call that "FLOCKING"
He's been pastoring there what, 20 years? Nice job, if you have mediocre standards.
Valverde's growth has more to do with people moving from LA during the housing boom in the IE. Nice to have a service that lasts an hour, you get a rehash of TD Jakes, GB5 sings a good tune, collect the orfrenda, make some announcements, then you are back home in time for a day full of NFL games.
Post the name of your church and your Pastor and I guarantee it has about 75-150 members and has been around for quite some time. I bet there are quite a few stories on him too.
By the way, there were 600 members at the fasting service held this past saturday for FOTC members. 600 members. Don't be a hater, whatever the reason or the case, FOTC is moving forward.
As for the hour services, you must be mistaking FOTC for a certain church in the city of Redlands.
So do you not pick up an offerings at your church? Do you not make announcements? Are all the ideas (or lack of) your Pastor's own? When was the last time you went to a service at FOTC? How long are your services?
GOD BLESS BROTHER SAM VALVERDE!
600? Are you counting infants and pets too?
There is nothing wrong with collectiing an offering.
But preaching the fuzzy doctrine to compell people to give is definately shady.
Thats why they call him Vale-verde. With Bro Sam, its all about the Green.
Fine. Enough of Valverde bashing.
Next topic,
Eduardo Pacheco.
Isn't Eric Rangel Pastor Sam's cousin too?
Just a thought, wouldn't it be a good idea for those of us who are posting our comments to include the state we are from? I admire the "saint from texas" for stating where he or she lives. Any U.S citizen knows the freedom of speech we have to express our concerns and opinions. I believe that someone from either side has browsed through this web page. Maybe and just maybe they will see the urgency of coming to some agreement for the sake of the church because the people have spoken.
This is like the DrudgeReport for the Asamblea.
Thanks Webmaster.
Pets? That's the best you can come up with? Do you allow pets in YOUR church? As for infants -they are counted as members, afterall, the Kingdom of God is theirs.
Again, when WAS the last time you went there?
Sounds like you left Brother Sam's Pastorship at one point under questionable circumstances. That may explain your hostility.
Signing out!
Eric Rangel is his nephew, I believe. Why? What does that have to do with the price of apples?
Eduardo Pacheco? Eric Rangel? What about them? Got a question, feel free to ask.
Eric was "awarded" pastorship in Arizona.
But he couldn't submit to the authority to his bishop, Hermano Tafoya.
Eric went rebel status and went "independent".
Crying and whining all the way.
Feel free to ask? Sure.
Question
Has Eduardo Pacheco ever taken any money from any member(s) of the Apostolic Assembly Church without accounting for the money or returning the money? Said funds were proceeds for a Pyramid Scheme.
Question
Has Eduardo Pacheco had any association, relationship with anyone who was found guilty of defrauding members of the Apostolic Assembly Church in the operation of a Pyramid Scheme?
Response to the 11:30 entry who wishes everyone to post their states. Why didn't you enter the name of the state your from?
To the Eduardo Pacheco entry: was the pyramid scheme the same scheme as the Mercedes Benz scheme?
God called, he wants his position as Judge back.
On Slander and Defamation, THE TRUTH is always a valid defense.
God said please refer to Deuteronomy and the Book of Judges.
So does anyone know, for a fact not opinion, if there will indeed be a re-election?
Note: No one else stays in their job when they have a pending litigation case against their present employer. You go on a temporary leave.
To September 24 @ 11:42 entry. Why if Bishop Rodriguez is not elegible to run for any position, did he embarrassingly keep accepting every nomination for pretty much all the positions? Was he nominating himself? Why didn't he remind everyone of Article 4 XIX then? Isn't this the man who claims to know the constitution inside out? Did he conveniently forget that portion?
My dear friend from idc. I will gladly post the state I'm from. I commend you for doing the same.
To the Eduardo Pacheco entry: was the pyramid scheme the same scheme as the Mercedes Benz scheme? You can't throw it out there and not follow-up.
To North Texas: Is that the District Bishop Abel Torres- the author of the letter of complaint- is from?
Just curious if anyone out there has visited Strong Tower Apostolic Church, better known as Corona Church, even better known as Brother Pacheco's church.
To Curios:
Curiosity killed the cat.
Yes, but satisfaction brought it back.
PLEASE NOTE:
IF YOU ARE GOING TO POST THAT YOU ARE THE WEBMASTER, YOU HAD BETTER IN FACT BE THE WEBMASTER OR YOU ARE GOING TO GET YOUR COMMENT DELETED.
Ex-Bishop A. Torres is a well known and respected man in the state of Texas. Unfortunately he is not from my district.
To N. Texas:
Who is the bishop now in that district now that Brother Abel is not?
Yes I visited Corona Church, and I'd recommend not to. Don't ask me to elaborate because I won't. Take the recommendation at face value and let it rest there.
In regards to Brother A. Torres being Bishop. This was many years ago. I was told he served for 17 yrs. in two different districts. According to an acquaintance he now pastors a large congregation of 500 members.
To N. Texas:
Oh that's right he was Bishop for a long time. I think he became Bishop after Brother Alejandro Galarza left Texas. If I recall correctly, the district had to be divided because it was too large. Good men. Thanks for the update.
ok... this site is getting to be out of hand. I just read a remark on THIS site that I made on ANOTHER SITE. It was copied and pasted over here. What's going on?
This is for anyone outside California:
Is the hurricane of a feeling that this whole elections issues has caused here in California as bad and as talked about in any other Districts or states outside of CA? What's the feeling there? What's the vibe?
To Anonymous of 9:48 a.m. entry on 9/25- about that district youth president- the district you're referring to-- is it the IDC?
The original CID document is posted in AA.info
No one else stays in their job when they have a pending litigation case against their present employer. You go on a temporary leave.
The litigation is not against the employer is against 5 coworkers
But aren't those 5 co-workers representing their company? Or better yet, what they are accused of, was done while representing their company?
Yes indeed, the "co-workers" in this case are being sued as representatives of their "company" because in such capacity their actions did occur as they were representing their "company". In other words, the "company" is responsible for their actions.
True, wouldn't suing your boss and continuing to work for him be considered a conflict of interest?
To the person asking if this scandle is all over. It most certainly is. Everyone is just waiting to see what is going to happen. Similar to what one feels when told that a hurricane will hit the Gulf coast. All we do is hope and pray for the best.
Not if you have ample evidence
that youre co-workers had prior knowlegde of the outcome of the elections.
sorry knowledge
You stated:
Yes indeed, the "co-workers" in this case are being sued as representatives of their "company" because in such capacity their actions did occur as they were representing their "company".
Shouldn't this mean that the previous administration should be sued, not the current administration because technically they where not in office when the election took place. The "changing of the guard" takes place after the election itself.
To sue the men in currently in office for an event that took place prior to their taking office would not seem to have any merit.
I don't want to interrupt your world ending conversation here, but can someone please go answer the newly converted post on today's blog.
the lawsuit is against the Qualifying Commission of the Elections
Yes, the Pyramid Scheme involved Mercedes and or any car of your selection.
I nominate this ticket for the GB.
President: Richard Maffey
VP: Mark Amin
Sec: Abel Duarte
Treasurer: Sam Mascareno
Sec of Ed.: David Jimenez
Sec. of Missions: Isaac Hernandez
In 10 years maybe.
Let me give you a more realistic ticket:
President:Juan Fortino
Vice: Daniel Salomon
Secretary: Saul Avila
Treasurer:Art Tafoya
F M: Misael Zaragoza
H M: Adam Lopez
C E: Sam Mascareno
Social A:Phil Saenz
LOL x infinity! That was funny!
Mark Amin- ah- no problem
Abel Duarte- wasn't he dating a 13 year old when he was like 30? yuk.
Sam Mascareno- which one is he- I get them mixed up.
David Jimenez- ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!! That is the funniest!!
Isaac Hernandez- STOP! My belly aches!!
David Jimenez- stop! too much! I can't handle the laugh attack.
Are you from Ontario? With relatives at FLC?
David Jimenez- any Jimenez for any position outside of their local church is unacceptable and really just plain funny!!!
If David Jimenez and Isaac Hernandez ever get on any national board- I'm going Catholic.
Let me give you a more realistic ticket:
President:Juan Fortino
Vice: Daniel Salomon
Secretary: Saul Avila
Treasurer:Art Tafoya
F M: Misael Zaragoza
H M: Adam Lopez
C E: Sam Mascareno
Social A:Phil Saenz
All men. We need to get the ladies involved other than Flor Azul.
There are some ladies out there in the AA that are more qualified than the current GB.
AMEN!!! TO That! I'm at work and I just "shook" in the Holy Ghost- nodded and everything- my co-workers are looking at me funny.
Sorry- but I felt it in that one.
If not Abel Duarte, then his brothern Jonathan Duarte.
If not David Jimenez, then Sammy Jimenez.
If not Isaac Hernandez, then Frank Hernandez.
See, there's a second generation of leaders coming up in the AA.
AMEN to that
Gees- I can't stop laughing at the David Jimenez entry. That's a good one for the ages. And Isaac Hernandez- he can't get it- his Daddy is not on the national board to pass him the mantle.
David Jimenez- I can't get enough of that one. I'm starting my own Laugh Factory.
Bring back Dan Suarez.
Sammy Jimenez? He can't even figure out which baseball team he's batting on!
My All Time favorite Baldemar Preaching:
Corre Hermano Corre!
It was at one of his last conventions as Obispo Presidente, before the Sanchez debacle.
YES!!! Dan Suarez for President!!!
Chuckie Escamilla as VP!
SUAREZ FOR PRES!
Baseball? huh?
I guess we get to stay home this Thanks Giving too. Thanks for the GB for ruining convention.
Yes- Corre Hermano Corre- then turned into "Corre Iglesia Corre" every other preaching after that. I hear he's into lip synching now.
I have a question.
Why does every other apostolic praise team singer want to do a recording?
Yes . . . baseball. :)
Want to go Worship the Lord this weekend?
For only $15.00 Each, you too can join the World Famous CT Choir in beautiful Oceanside, California, in a special concert.
For only a small donation of $15.00 you can see Apostolic J-Lo sing her heart out.
Good question- none of them have original songs- they all sing each others songs and change 'em up a bit. They get a CD made in their tio's garagae and sell it for $15 and expect us to treat them like Royalty. Most have no business singing in public - they need to stick to their showers.
I don't understand the baseball remark. Unless you are referring to tree that "turn the other leaf".
And then the ones who can sing- forget their christians and start acting and looking like the world. OH- but they're considered annointed because they can hold a key.
To the person in Holy Ghost at work- did you pass out? :)
Where can I get Abel Duarte's CD? Anyone know?
Turn the leaf, baseball team, which side to butter your bread- all the same thing.
I get the impression that there are some people here that really, really feel the need to vent.
I get the impression that there are some people here that really, really feel the need to vent.
Which CD- how to date a young girl who's WAY to young for you?
It's no impression- it's reality. We wouldn't ever dare tell anyone any of this to their face. We just see them, smile and hugg them and go greet them in the name of Jesus.
Corre iglesia corre!
Enough of the Abel hating. He's a talented preacher, singer, musician and you are just plain jealous. In fact, I even think you are jealous of David Jimenez.
Enough of the Abel hating. He's a talented preacher, singer, musician and you are just plain jealous. In fact, I even think you are jealous of David Jimenez.
I've been living under a rock- who's Apostolic J-Lo? :)
Try these on for possible candidate for Obispo.
President: Rick Ramirez
VP: Memo Oros
Treasurer: Ike Baeza
Sec. Ed Lopez
Sec of Ed. Jimmy Morales
Its a "B" List, but its an alternative.
I'd take Abel anytime of David Jimenez- David Jimenez has NOTHING to be jealous over. Not spiritually, not financially, and certainly not physically. Abel can preach, Abel can sing, Abel can play the keyboards and again. . . Abel can PREACH! David Jimenez ought to re-study at the "Bible College" he has in his Daddy's church, er...I mean , his church. My bad.
Na- I don't know the other ones. I'd be scared of Rick Ramirez- we have too many young ladies in our assembly.
Jaime Aguilar = Apo J-Lo
Holy Ghost worker responding to the 9/25 4:08 entry. Yes, I just got up! :)
Rumor Mill:
There's a rumor that Bishop Sanchez has a brother who converted to Catholic. Is this true?
OK- where have I been? Is she still in church?
Abel Duarte a Preacher?
I never knew a rock could be put to sleep. I heard him once. Talk about boring. I could live with his tone if just didn't take scripture out of context so much.
Another TD Jakes follower.
AA lawyers website
www.bewleylaw.com
California legal counsel
www.cbstv2.com
window shutter scam.
Another GB-whatever scandal. When will it end?!!??? Videos on upper left corner of article.
http://www.cbstv2.com/Global/story.asp?S=7122050
GB5
1764 Lugonia Ave.
Suite 104 #237
Redlands, Ca 92374
nice
business
ethics
did
they
learn
that
from
their
pastor?
someone
needs
to
let
cbs
know
where
they
go
to
church
Aye Dios Mio!?!??
Not GB5.
Ok, I have to admit I'm never been an Apostolic groupie. Which one is Isaac?
http://www.gb5online.com/
Please excuse my ignorance.
Where this people church at?
Hey GB5, I would like to introduce to some of our new friends:
www.bewleylaw.com
now
thats
classic
Valverde
teaching
in
practice
are
GB5
related
to
Pastor
Pachueco?
For the people that think that these post can be tracked and we'll be taken to court, I would love to see these accusations defended in a court of law.
You couldn't ask for better headlines" "GB5 Scandal, 2007" and the GB Scandal, 2007"
Lets just say that the CBS Reporter has more info now. Not only on Mr. Isaac Gutierrez, GB5, GB5online, but also some very jucie info on the GB and this little mess.
Trace the people that leave comments on this blog, yeah right!
Unless the GB really made an impression on the White House and Karl Rove and can convince them to utilize NSA and CIA resources to trace down disgruntled member who finally have a way to speak their mind about all the stuff they've just put up with, ok yeah you people have something to worry about.
:)
Isaac Gutierrez was praying for a ministry.
As it will turn out, a Prison Ministry.
Don't Drop the Soap Isaac!!! lol
To Webmaster,
You need to post new post so these discussions stay organized; there are about 4 different topics in here.
Also, you should post a topic on "are we going to hell for blogging about the those that have errored in their ways"
Do we need a general board? What do they do? Why can't the Pastor be in charge of the local church, the land, the ministers, and the tithes?
How much money is wasted supporting a general board? Does anyone know the operating cost of the General Office?
The AA should move torward the UPC model of fellowhip. No need for all this leadership, just too much opportunity for corruption and power grabs.
Don't the Gutierrez Brothers go to Fontana?
Fountain of Truth?
Or
Fountain of Scandals?
Or
Fountain of Shutters?
Don't the Gutierrez Brothers go to Fontana?
Fountain of Truth?
Or
Fountain of Scandals?
Or
Fountain of Shutters?
Adding to above comments...
And who in the world is going to want the job, now?
I predict with the introduction of blogs and increased scrutiny of elections and those in power, the job may be less desirable.
Imagine the day after the election, now with blogs and I imagine other emerging online information sites about the AA, leaders must now consider what those that run for public office consider before their elections: public scrutiny.
And there is nothing wrong with that!
If you want to run an organization like the AA, you better have an impeccable resume, an above par family, and high standard of professional readiness (ethical business practices).
To put it bluntly, the new AA leadership should be expected to stand the scrutiny of bloggers with way too much time on their hands at work, with way too much bandwidth, with way too much intricate knowledge on how to mine for the internet for information.
Shouldn't we expect anything less?
In case you forgot, this is the Apostolic Church.
For all these people feeling sorry for all these leaders getting their names dragged through these bastions of incredible wit and analysis (the comment sections of these blogs), I say to you that this may be the new price of AA leadership.
You can't expect to walk across that platform in all the grace and glory that the position brings without the expectation that you better be living and leading in a manner worthy of the accolades. Maybe the emergence of these blogs and the hypercritic it brings will dwindle down the leadership ranks to those that don’t have any shady dealings to uncover, or resume to question.
Do I suggest that the blogs now have the ability to dictate Apostolic leadership? No.
But, it does raise the level of scrutiny that a leader must be comfortable with if he so desires the office of…
Does the oath of secrecy within the GB includes salaries.?
Although I am not a corporate lawyer, my sense is that the members have a right to full disclosure of the financials under the Open Meeting Act.
A written request to the headquarters should be sufficient.
Not to pile on, but Isaac Gutierrez sings for the Lord on Saturday and Sunday, or when in concert, and Allegedly Steals for Satan on Monday - Friday.
I bet as long as he pays his tithes that Bishop Valverde is a happy man.
Those poor old ladies Isaac Gutierrez allegedly stole from. Maybe GB5 shouls comp all Isaac's Alleged Victims some tickets to the next GB5 Concert. An autographed GB5 Poster and T-Shirt could help to, with an I-Pod loaded with GB5 I-Tunes.
For the one concerned that GB5 will be GB4 since one is likely to be prosecuted and sent to jail.
GB5 can have auditions to fill in Isaacs spot on the team.
Who would you nominate to be the 5th Gutierrez Brother?
My Top 5
Abel Duarte
Chucky Escamilla
Sammy Jimenez
Junior Aguilar
Joseph Espinoza
About the GB5- I'm sure their pastor will bail them out of this mess before their Daddy gets installed in his new church in October in the City of Yucaipa- whom by the way, was also involved in another scandel with his boys 3 years ago- same type of business.
How do these men get elected to be Pastors? Do they just get plucked out of their congregations and asked if they want to become Pastors?
Forget GB5- Bring back Nu Vision!
Hold the Isaac-spot auditions- I believe the business is under all five of their names. But I could be wrong.
Danny Covarrubias has my vote for the 5th GB-
How about Alessa Covarrubias to be the 5th GB or even Lilli Cruz. They're always singing together like the Brady Bunch anyway.
To post of 9/25 6:19- Pastor Pachueco- good one!
Bring back Nu Vision!!
Artie Medina of Redlands for President!
Some of us don't care to know what is going on the lives of others especially people that don't have anything to do with the electoral convention or the lawsuit. Kids, please stick to MySpace, I am sure your time will be well entertained. Please, consider the rest of us that are not interested in who didn't get the shutters or who stayed with the money. If you might happen to question if I know this guy Isacc, the answer is "No." The matter is "whooo cares."
For those young "perfectionist" a correction on the mispelled name "Isaac."
Here's my ideal GB ticket:
President: Victor Prado
VP: Sergio Maffey
Sec: Ruben Mascareno
Treas: Anthony Romo
Sec of Ed: Jeff Aguilar
Sec of Missions: Jason Aguilar
Ouch- I feel the stones being thrown already.
Hermanos,
Let's move our ideal GB tickets to the New Sheriff in Town? post.
Thank you for your input.
Apostolicvoice@gmail.com
Please don't let those stones break your little brain. Whoever leads our church will not be determined by you or me. That will be for God to decided. Just a little reminder. Have a great day!
Little brain? You don't know me.
God? Oh now we're going to let God decide for us? After we've all bashed everyone?
Back to the topic at hand. . .
Please do not respond with inflammatory emotional opinions on this case. I’m not seeking to know what side anyone is on or what you may think anyone deserves. I’m seeking legal educated answers from people in the legal field who may have educated opinions about the following:
1. I understand that this is a pending issue that is not yet in litigation since a Summons & Complaint has not been filed with any court.
What exactly are the Plaintiffs in this case seeking? Will this be a Civil Case, if so what are the monetary damages do you believe they seeking? Will it be a Criminal Case for Fraud? Tort Liability? If so, are they seeking jail time? Will they be fined?
2. Since the General Offices are in California, do you think the jurisdiction in this case will be in the San Bernardino County Court system? Or will it be in Houston, Texas, Harris County, since that is where the attorneys were retained? Or in LA since that is where the Fraud took place.
3. Does anyone know the difference in laws between Texas and California in regards to Tort Liability?
4. Can any of the Defendants be held personally liable, as officers of the ‘corporation’, for the misconduct or do you think that the lawsuit will be directly aimed at the Apostolic Assembly as a Corporation?
5. If an injunction is file, would it be only against the GB, the AA offices or the AA in general?
the lawsuit is against the Qualifying Commission of the Elections
So the Gutierrez dad is being awarded a church in Yucaipa?
With his track record, how did they come up with that decision?
Maybe we can invite CBS Channel 2 to the installation service. Invitations should be given to their Shutter Victims.
I hear that Isaac G is setting up a Shutter Victims Fund.
Valverde needs to set up a Shutter Scam Task Force to investigate the misdeeds of the Gutierrez Sr, to see if he measures up as pastoral material.
Who or what is the Qualifying commission comprised of?
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