Thursday, July 31, 2008
Revolutionaries for Justice
So the Revolutionaries for Justice want to come with video camera's in hand and try to affect change?
Have you not seen the Rodney King Video? It doesn't matter what the video shows, they were found not guilty.
Do you realize that a very well respected group of pastors just tried to sue our Beloved Assembly and ended up losing their churches. You think our leaders are going to listen to a few foul mouthed, name calling, disrespectful noobs? I think not! You must realize one thing; the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus, Inc.(Texas and California) has the legal system behind them.
You can't fight City Hall. I am surprised they sued. I am surprised that some of these pastors are apologizing. "I'm sorry for pointing out how the AA and its constituents were defrauded from a fair election, can I have my church back"? But I do understand why they are apologizing: It is their livelihood at stake. That is very unfortunate because most of these pastors have nothing else to fall back on.
I did read Sister Rita Solomon's letter over on AA.info. She is very well respected, intelligent and well spoken. She articulated very well her feelings and emotions through her ordeal. The anxiety, the unknowing, the embarrassment, the humiliation, the frustration of trying to do what was right and being told you where wrong, the lack of clarity as to what the future holds, being called rebellious. As Bill Clinton said, "I feel your pain".
Now you know what countless other pastors wives, who where excommunicated and removed while your husband was on the General Board and stood their and said nothing, feels like. Welcome to the real world. And I do say that with the utmost respect and admiration for you and your husband's ministry...but it had to be said. This type of politics has been bred in our Assembly, many generations have been through this. You held the reigns and did nothing to change this, not only did you do nothing to change this, you fostered this corruption. You lived high of the hog and now the hog has turned and kicked you out of the pen.
You are free now, there is no need to come back. What are you going to come back to? Its easier to see how dirty things are when your not rolling around in it. Run free and be clean no one can hold property over your head anymore. All the other pastors are held hostage by their properties. John 8:32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. The truth is that Jesus did not intend for pastors to be slaves to an organization. An organization that can do what it wants, when it wants to whom in wants in the name of Jesus. Pastor's do not realize that they are held captive because of the structure of the AA. It controls the property therefore holds captive its pastors. I may not be Bible scholar but I don't think this is what God intended. It breeds corruption, pride of the flesh.
Back to the Revolutionaries...
If you want to really affect change, you must change from within. Lose the slang, lose the hostility, put on a tie and a suit and STUDY TO SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED. Speak clearly, assertively and with the peace and kindness of Christ. You must grow into a position of respect and admiration, then...when you hold the reigns, you must not let the power go to your head. You must be a giver, not selfish and look out for future generations of Latino's across this country. Not you and your children's fancy houses and cars. This is how we must build wealth, by effecting the lives of others beyond your site and reach. YOU MUST AFFECT THE EFFECT!(That is for Freddie Jose, some of the old timers will understand the FJ reference). It will take time, be steadfast.
I am afraid if you don't, this may be the beginning of the end of our beloved social.
Apostolic Voice
BlogMaster Extraordinaire
ps.
For our revolutionaries....
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4,282 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1201 – 1400 of 4282 Newer› Newest»Again, you speak truth Chairman Mao.
That case was thrown out to discredit people for no reason.
The GB must be pretty upset because the ground from beneath them is being pulled out!
If you, from China can see this, even you as a dictator yourself...how smart are the AA?
Article 7 - Facts Claus
7. AAFCJ owns church properties across the country, including Texas, for the use of its local congregations. Such congregations primarily consist of immigrants. There is a strong policy reason for AAFCJ to protect its congregation from Pastors and others wrongfully obtaining ownership rights in AAFCJ buildings and property.
malverder and his political goons and mentors.. LOL
he did learn fromt he best...
some incriminating pics..
http://www.apostoliccongress.com/images/cc_upton.jpg
http://www.apostoliccongress.com/images/kenn.jpg
http://saulsantos.com/support/gallery/BacaSaulSrSaulJrPastor.JPG
a link warning us of the zealots and extremists...
http://www.spiritualabuse.org/apostolic_congress.html
and finally.. the AA's future poster boy, and malverde's current mentoree and intern..
http://saulsantos.com/gallery.html
haha... the AA has started them young.. LOL
Another well known immigrant,
Lugo
What about Ismael Martin del Campo no documents.
haha just for the record.. i am neither a commie.. or a socialist..
yeah I lean a little left.. lol.. i do admit.. but not hard-core leftist...
and even in his errors mao did proclaim.. (via karl marx..)
"religion is the opiate of the masses."
please read carefully people before i get the holy death threats.. LOL... "Religion" not Christ hinmself..
we cool??? lol
I don't care about the gold,
just the bronze
AA mentality I can't rid
As long as I have a position that's all that matters
So FOT is assisting the movement of the Anti-Christ?
Saul Santos looks really young to be even a minister and he's making it to the white house quick.
ok... i fel a bit bad..
so.. far all you conservative right wing.. america first crowd.. a quote form one of YOUR founding fathers.. (haha... i have a dad, and he's mexican... not some rich white guy fromt he east coast.. lo)
and i quote, mr. ben franklin himself...
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"
in other words to all you timid bishops, pastors, ministers, and laypeople...
either stand up and demand your rights and justice...
or be afriad of respurcussions and excommunication,
BUT
get ready to never get them back and be governed by tyrants..
hence the the april 2008 resolutions...
making it to the white ouse.. is not achievment in its own right..
he.. malverde, sanchez were PAWNS in karl Roves grand scheme of duping religious conservatives into thinking BUsh was one of them...
they are photo-ops, and goons, no less no more..
Rove simply pimped out the white house for political leverage..
8 years of bush.. and how has this country become any better???
Saul is married to the former Ana Ludim Medina Gaxiola of Culiacán, Sinaloa.
Another immigrant...
What was the AA thinking when they wrote Article 7?
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at time of challenge and controversy."
Dr martin Luther King Jr
"Power Concedes nothing without an demand, but power won`t even concede to a demand, if the demand is coming from an weak constituency that looks like they lost their testicular fortitude!!!"
Frederick Douglass
Maybe because they wrote it in english the GB think they're being funny...being that the assumption would be that the immigrants wouldn't understand it any way.
They discredit immigrants yet everything in the AA has to be translated to english!
Starting with their boring letters with 10 million signatures. The signatures are just a waste of paper!
If you're going to save anything, save the dang trees GB!
When I read all these blogs written by highly educated people with good English and excellent script, I feel sorry for all of us.
Why?
Because we do not have anyone, humanly speaking, who we can truly respect or consider a real leader in our church. (in the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus.)
I also bring to rememberance when talk was there, that the GB wanted to change the name of the Apostolic Assembly to something shorter and easier to remember.
WOW, and we fell for that?
It was always in order to incorporate somewhere else.
But we are either too trusting or naive, or if only for the social aspect that we ignored what is/was going on,because we really didn't care.
When all this came to light in the last year or so, we all panicked and took notice. The GB has tried this tactic for years.
Every Pastor, Bishop or Minister protects his own kingdom, within. Do you blame them? I don't.
What is it? You answer me.
The AA does not belong to the GB. They, in fact, are employees of the AA. But we have no leader who will hold this to the fire.
We should fight with prayer and with all righteous resources, with all our might.
Remembering those who have gone to be with the Lord, after struggling through the years, this is what they left us.
The current Board came like bulls in a china shop, crashing through and destroying everything.
It is sad that those who were fighting for truth and justice sued and were thrown out by Sanchez with the mentality of Valverde.
Where is his father-in-law now?
The same with Aguilar who needs to thank Jauhall for his position and now they are not even friends.
The old timers remember that they could not reason with Sanchez father. 'Era un testarudo.' Maybe it comes with age, or maybe its in the DNA.
Let's pray for Brothers Baldemar, Abel Torres and Zuniga. They did not know what they were fighting against.
Prayer changes things...we know. The brothers who sued, should have fought from within, influencing the Pastors, and stayed the course, like David did with Saul.
God is our defender, God alone.
Be strong and keep fighting.
Thanks Henry, Jose, and all the others.
Skotty, it is not a coincidence that you are where you are. You came along 'for such as time as this...'
Those prayers that are at the throne of God are being answered, in Jesus Name.
Who funded all those political trips Malverde took to DC?
501c3?
http://www.youtube.com/user/MissyValverde
mecha
where did that guy go? why did he leave?
Unhe2,
¿Y que de los inpuestos que segun el condado de Harris esta demandando? Es falso? Le pregunto para claraficar esto.
Good Morning bloggers!(it's FRIDAY!)
Being here there, I agree with you!
Seeker, Si pregunta.
Bronze
v.prado & his wife are from Mexico also.
can someone confirm?
Those of you who are reporting actual/factual information. It is very interesting how you get the information. It's sad that the AA has come to this level of disrespect amongst its members and those that are leaving and have left will be thankful in the end.
My church left a few years ago and now are members of the UPCI. WE've never been happier! I've read some posts where people feel like minorities or made to feel below the "white UPC members/churches/pastors" I personally think this is a little rediculous. Maybe this happens in backwoods churches in the south. But comeon! We live in America and our country is such a melting pot of different people we want to reach everyone.
In AZ district the UPC has received us so well. We've never felt so welcomed and befriended. We didn't even know what that felt like! Let us continue in love, peace, etc. I think people came here originally for 2 reasons. To post information and feelings about the activities surrounding the organization. Now, it seems to have become a place of calling people stupid, idiots, etc. I do have to admit that some of the things I've been reading are entertaining but a lot of it is trash. This is just my opinion. GBY All
To: LL & called2pro
I think all pastors have a life ins. policy (death) that would go to the spouse?
Yes the Pastors have a life insusrance Policy from an outside insurance Company I believe it's Transamerica.
As far as I know it's about 20K.
I also know that they all don't get the full amount.
Pastor Frank Morales family received round $1,500.00.
They said it was because of his age when he was enrolled.
I also know that the family had to hire an attorney to even get that.
So, $1,500.00 minus $500.00 for attorney, they got around $1,000.00for his many years of service and work in National City.
apostolic old timer
few yrs ago I was told $15,000.
Not even close!
apostolic old timer(old school)
Who took the rest?(aa?)
The Apostolic Assembly is a performance-based religion (Tithe, sing, pray, fast, jump etc). It utilizes fear and threats to control its members. Their holiness standard is personal not scriptural. What that means is that only behave certain ways so they won’t be criticized. There’s no conviction to be holy, just a fear of being criticized for not being holy.
We are driven by the desire to “behave” rather than the desire to “become”. This is why we have so many backsliders in the church. We taught them to live the Christian life in the old ”Adamic” nature. You can’t put new wine into old skins. We taught them to act (baptism, speak in tongues) more than believe. The result is a lot of ex-members who only knew a “religious experience” and not the Savior.
Now the church is more business than bible. More financial than freedom. More tradition than truth.
The Apostolic Assembly breeds their own kind. They produce only to capacity to which they are able. Discipleship is for their own cause. To raise their “organization” to its “high place”.
Old timer
our aa (conventions) are like "Project Runway" with Heidi Klum.
So lets make a list... How many immigrants are on the national board?
How many immigrants are on the district levels?
Halleluah Anyhow :
r u from that church in AZ that went to UPC? I dont know where abouts in AZ but i remember hearing the 411 a while back. AGAIN/FINALLY someone stood up to mafioso Tafoya and the AA.
I dont know if its the same church but this past ET in UC Pastor AA washed a pastors feet from AZ and made some interesting remarks. apparently he was the pastor that left with his whole congregation. now that was big and bold.
-C
sola dei gloria said...
We are driven by the desire to “behave” rather than the desire to “become”......
..................................
I like what you said its true i always said that we are to busy doing this and dong that...etc but we are never "becoming"...we are just being entertained..
Concerned...Yep that's us!! That was such a big and bold move for Pastor...WOW!!! So you heard the 411 on that huh...I am really curious as to what was said around here. Once we split we split. Haven't looked back twice.
the AA is run by a amature, undereducated (i'm being nice and not saying uneducated), pyramid-like-scheme, backward leaders.
Why do you expect to have any other result than the one you now have?
no matter how educated you become, your vertical progression in the secular/business arena, if you stay in the AA, unless you act like them. walk liek them, think like them, you will never beanyone of influence.
Rather than they learn from you, they demand you conform and retreat to their lesser evolved state of mind.
And if not, they throw out straw-men phrases to denounce and ridicule you like, progressive, secular, rebelde, mundano, insubordinate.
All catcha phrases that when scrutinized have no bases, and are no better than "the war on terror", "support the troops", or "bush was legitimately elected" hahaha.. whoa.. wait a minute.. that last one sounds familiar.. just substitute bush for "GB" lol
Hallelujah Anyhow
What is the name of your pastor?
Where are you located?
accion...send me an email for that information please
Hallelujahnyhow@gmail.com
Ok So Lugo... Might Have A Green Card. idk if ne body has seen it. bUT HE IS MOS DEF NOT A BORN CITIZEN OF THE USA...
Del Campo IS STRAIGHT FROM MEXICAN APOSTOLIC CHURCH. YOU ALL SHOULD KNOW THIS... IF NOT...
DANG...
Cant Wait Until Maricopa County Sends Me The Info I Requested on
BERNICE MOLINA
AND
EDWARD PACHECO...
SO... UNTIL THEN... LOL
Skotty
Skotty w/show u
Del Campo isn't he from Mexico City?
Old timer
Re: F. Moralez
You mentioned they did not get t/full amount?
I wonder if t/WAS FALSE ADVERTING!
Old timer
I mean FALSE ADVERTISING!
H.A.
yeah BOLD is an understatement. Im in Cali and I heard a few versions. One of which sounds like Tafoya. Accusing people of fraud or embezzlement which is his way of bullying the churches to pay the piper "Big boy gottsta get his $$" I recall a few situations I/family were in with him and as a result i have no respect for him. Big ups to your pastor. Where u guys at? So did the AA black-list u? or are you welcomed to functions still?
-C
sO I asked politely A WHILE AGO
for the ApVOICE to
post up this pic ...
http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=delcampochurchpd3.jpg
so can anybody guess what this is?
concerned...
I will give you more details and info just email me..
Hallelujahnyhow@gmail.com
Thanks!!!
to LL
apostolic old timer(old school)
Who took the rest?(aa?)
...................................
I'm an old timer becasue i've been in the AA for a long time.
I'm not old school, at least I don't think so.
I don't know whe kept the rest of the insurance money. Maybe we should ask Alvarez.
I do know that the A.C. Nava foundation did not help them out at all.
Skotty, that looks like Tijuana. Dejame ver, ah, es una casa del gran CHUNTARO Obispo Martin Del Rancho.
Is that a church? Was it foreclosed on? Looks all borded up. Man, those Tijuana Chuntis know how to Chuntify a church.
H.A.
Just shot one to ya
to: ll
Re: F. Moralez
You mentioned they did not get t/full amount?
I wonder if t/WAS FALSE ADVERTING!
...................................
Tha's right, as I mentioned they only got around $1,000.00 after they paid an attorney to help them collect $1,500.00 from the insurance Co.
H.A and C.
It's not a secret that you guys are talking about Navarette
NO, it's not a secret. I just don't feel the need to tell everyone and their Momma information. Some things should be done with descretion....GBY
Discreetness? Then you shouldn't have mentioned it at all
I am not afraid to mention it. You can go check out the church website. Redeemerministries.com I just don't need to display all details. God bless you and have a great day! We are old news. There is a lot more interesting things going on with the organization every day these days it seems. We are not the big news anymore!! =0)
Hallelujah Anyhow and ptcrzr
Since both of you are from Arizona,
Any news about pastor Tafoya?
I was wondering the same thing! I have no idea what's going on!!
Tafoya is gone.
He packed it up last Sunday
Why what happen to him?
He left on his own.
I don't know much more.
Some else please verify.
Saul Avila et al. v. Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus et al.
Case: E046233 4th div2 District
Date (YYYY-MM-DD): 2008-08-22
Event Description: Record on appeal filed.
He is continuing to have church in a different location.
He left last Wed. Before the AA gave him the boot.
PTCRZR LMNOP, XYZ -seriously your name is wack!
anyways I was just curious because I had friends in AZ and wondered if it was the same pastor that got his feet washed in UC and apparently it was. Thx H.A.
I didnt even know the P's name but now i do. So dont be coming on here like a big bull dog slow your roll kitty cat.
Did his congregation follow him? Who is the new pastor at the other location? Why were they going to give him the boot? Is he still the bishop?
H.A.
Tafoya is a coward! he was being audited. hmm.. for the same thing he tried to pin on your pastor apparently and then some. It was just a matter of time.
Hallelu anyhow & Accion
To find out, why they would boot him out you would need to ready letters on
aa.info.com or read previous blogs.
Jose, Thanks for the info.
sola dei gloria,
I enjoyed reading your last post about the Assembly being a performance based religion.
I have COUNTLESS stories of young men and women who got the good 'ole proverbial "holy hand shaking" by the pastor,which left them with their hair messed up, a greasy face, and pastor's spit-sauce on their cheek. Why? Because these jovensitos were just standing there apparently not "worshiping". They got the demons rebuked out of them, but these jovensitos never returned.
Performance based? Very performance based.
Wow.....Well Jesus is our judge!
Skotty w/show U
FYI
Valverde lives in a 2.0 mill home.
Hector,
Thanks for the laugh!
Just stating the facts bro...that's what this blog is about right?
Yes, this blog is about stating facts...When I felt the need to release facts such as my church/pastor name I would have done that. But thank you you did it for me!
LL --- I have read the letters on the AA info site and also some old blogs/posts. There are so many to weed through. I've been reading these blogs every day this week for hours to be brought up to speed. I've got 3 years of info that I don't know! haha! Anyways, I just saw the Tafoya thing come up and was interested if there was a reliable source that new any info without going back through all of the posts on these blogs...
Concerned...don't hate
So Ptcrzr...since you know so much info tell us some info on you....
we should fly out Skotty to AZ so he can bring us back and post some footage on the Tafoya story. Who is wiling to fund his flight, food, and hotel!
LOL Seeker! Good idea!!
Sure, I'm his neice
Well you aren't objecting to anything that is said....Does that mean it's true?
PTCRZR
how played out is that phrase.
j/k brah its my fri humor
Everyone has their own opinion as do I. As mentioned by other bloggers there are documents that state what happened. You can draw your own conclusions. I'm not here to judge anyone.
where are the docs, so i can read them.
I still say we do a love offering to fly out skotty!
Concerned, no worries bro! TGIF!
HAHAHAHAH
THIS IS
http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=delcampochurchpd3.jpg
del campos church!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO JOKE
THIS IS HIS CHURCH!!!!!!!!
http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=delcampochurchpd3.jpg
Thats the building the GB took from pastor Jesse Espinoza.
SkottyWillShowYou,
Not sure what is implied by the picture of Campos' church.
I've never seen his church in person, but it looks like an average looking church to me. In fact, it looks pretty nice in this picture.
Please fill me in if I'm missing anything.
Well I have read the letters concerning Tafoya...It doesn't tell me very much unless there are docs that I don't know about. God is our only judge however, I know what happened in the events leading to us leaving the AA. Ptcrzr you being Tafoya's niece may have heard a different side of the story. There are always two sides to any story. What happened and someone elses account of what happened. May God be with your uncle because he is going to need it!!
To Hallelujah Anyhow,
Do you know pastors Frank Hernandez and Miguel Hernandez? If so what ever happened to them?
The big Tafoya ran from this honorable assembly because it was getting hotter than the az desert heat.
His departure had nothing to do with the elections, rather his greed and love of money.
But of course the gb did not initiate an investigation until he turned on them.
He has been defrauding the district of az for at least eight years and the gb has turned a blind eye.
Now embezzelment is written all over his resume. What a shame!
Cant be a chef, cant even "cook a book"!
ON ANOTHER NOTE: Who's ready for some football?
GO Dallas Cowboys!! 2 more weeks left before Game time!
CHAIRMAN_MAO:
can u simplify what you posted earlier what exactly is this whole congress thing with saul santos and valverde....I click on the link to give info but not sure what this whole thing means????
To Pastor M.Gallegos. I haven't seen you post in a long time but i wanted to get in contact with you, can you give me info as to what time you hold your services on sundays and the address ( i kinda know where its at but not too sure). thanx sister Monica
Sister Monica hi brother Gallegos doesnt come on here anymore, but I keep him up dated on everything, if you would like send an e-mail too healingnow@live.com and I can give you his phone number. I would need to know who you are first though. If for what ever reasons you don't want to tell me I can just give you his e-mail.
Sincerely
Pete
CBG I do know who they are and do not exactly know what happened with them. Bro. Miguel Hernandez is good friends with my pastor and has preached at our church on several occasions. I didn't know that church existed until a few years ago. Bro. Miguel is independent. I read somewhere it's a result of Tafoya that ran him out of the assembly...
As I read everyone's blogs, there is so much hurt, confusion and most of all disappointment at our honorable GB, truth IS this administration is no different then those in the past, maybe this new self-appointed board has bigger "cajunas" than the past GB, but nonetheless still run things the same.
The difference? Well the ex-GB members that were not elected or should I say "appointed" this time, have been on the otherside of the fence, therefore they know how the whole thing goes down on the great election day... Having said this; With utmost respect to Dr.BR, he too has ousted many, many, pastors and leaders from the AA during his reign, going back to the time when he sent two-vote to Chile, (during the car scam), there was another Pastor that was appointed to go to Chile, this pastor was from Santa Barbara church, he had sold his home and made all the necessary arrangements to move with his family... The week before this x-pastor was ready to leave, he got the call from Dr. BR, who told him that he was NOT going to be the missionary in Chile and that he would be replaced by Ed Pacheco, (FYI Ed & the x-pastor are 1st cousins) Ed has always been a jerk, this caused so much friction in the prominent (at the time Valverde & Pacheco families) which after this whole ordeal, the GB had once again made a terrible mistake, to again look out for their interest, not thinking of what affects this decision would have on so many people, but once again the GB under a different reign than the current thought only of themselves and how to "c.y.a" so you see this is not a "new" thing, this has been going on for years!
Having said this; With utmost respect to Dr.BR, he too has ousted many, many, pastors and leaders from the AA during his reign, going back to the time when he sent two-vote to Chile, (during the car scam), there was another Pastor that was appointed to go to Chile, this pastor was from Santa Barbara church.
NO IT WAS DURING MANUEL VIZCARRA THAT PACHECO WAS SEND TO CHILE.
My Point is.
SHouldnt A MEMBER OF THE "GODLY BOY" CREW BE MORE INTERESTED IN GROWING THEIR OWN CHURCH/ BUILDING IT UP AS WELL AS BUILDING UP MEMBERS...
AND STOP WORRYING ABOUT CLOSING DOWN OTHER CHURCHES...?
same diff. Viscarra / Dr BR vs. Sanchez / Valverde,
they all are in the mix together.... oh sure the President "gives" the order but the Vice carries it out!
Hallelujah Anyhow, the reason I asked you was because my source in Az told me there is a connection between pstor M Hernandez, Bishop Salomon, A Tafoya and S Valverde. She said Tafoya and Valverde had something to do with Hernandez leaving the AA
My source went as far as to say that if we ask the right questions about these people, we'll discover even more fraud from the GB (Valverde & Tafoya). She wouldn't tell me more because she doesn't want to get Pastor Hernandez involved!
Something to think about.
It was President Eisonhower who said, "a people who values its priviliges above its principles soon loses both."
and also said "only Americans can hurt Americans"
Wow!!!!!! Do you see any similarities in what is happening to our church assembly.
CBG very interesting....When my church was in the AA, we were very different. We weren't really connected to everything going on. Nor did we care. Still don't. The UPC is different you are independent with your own body. We do have fellowship with other churches and our choir and praise team is invited to sing a lot within the district.
We did not know ( at least the majority of us) about the things going on with Tafoya. We didn't even know of his accusations against the Pastor until the very end when the Pastor decided to leave.
We were almost like our own independent organization because we've always survived with our own. Our church is very content with fellowshiping amongst its own members. We are predominately an English congregation so we didn't fit in at the district/sector activities. When I was a youth,we participated a lot more in the district/sector level. I guess my point is I don't know anything about anyone. I was very interested in Tafoya because I believe that God is our judge and he takes care of his people. If someone hurts his people or causes someone to stumble, he will have revenge. What goes around comes around.
The greatest downfall of the AA is their ignorance to incorporate english. Prior to these politics, the next generation came arising and desired to serve. Yet due to the lack of the english language the discouragement boiled and continues to do so. The ignorance has overwhelmed the youth and the elders are with greed to their dominant language. One service or two does not suffice the youth. The General Board loves to see numbers and money. Only if they were smart enough, they would have incorporated english and then would have seen a vast population arise up. It is due to this ignorance that many leave.
Statistical Facts:
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2006 (b)
14.8% in USA
White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2006
66.4% in USA
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html
What does that say about the AA wanting to win souls? Is it wanting to win souls or creating a religion for their OWN people? Did God not himself say everyone is created equal? Has the AA created a monster, a cult?
Greetings,
Is Bishop Daniel Jauhall still a minister of the Apostolic Assembly?
Bronze
There may be truth in what you say,
but you have to remember the the church is comprised of both immigrants and Americans and there has been no discrimination as to who is on the receiving end and there is confusion on both side of the aisle as to what is going on within the assembly. Some have gone to the UPC and others to Mexican church as well.
Hallelujah Anyhow, do you know why these pastors are no longer in the assembly? does you pastor know? My source insinuated that it had something to do with church properties!
Cali Warrior
No discrimination as to who is on the recieving end? Have you not read Article 7 of the new court case documents regarding W. Mendoza?
I believe that is discrimination from the General Board AAFCJ to the AAFCJ people all alike, written in plain language!
You are right that the church is comprised of both immigrants and Americans. However, is it not the American's that willingly and unwillingly help those immigrants become who they are; financially, educationally, etc...? As well as vice versa, the immigrants willingly and unwilling help shape the future of America; doing the jobs other American's wouldn't, bring new ideas from an international aspect, etc..?
Can someone get us the statistics or a census of the people within the AAFCJ?
3 Pastors? Miguel Hernandez, Frank Hernandez, who is the other? Tafoya?
No just the 2 Pastors, Miguel Hernandez and Frank Hernandez. Do you know why these pastors are no longer in the assembly? does you pastor know?
I do not know. He may know, not sure. I'm not going to ask him though... I can't ask him that LOL
why not. Tell him you're just curious, thats all! LOL.
english only please said...
The greatest downfall of the AA is their ignorance to incorporate english. Prior to these politics, the next generation came arising and desired to serve. Yet due to the lack of the english language the discouragement boiled and continues to do so. The ignorance has overwhelmed the youth and the elders are with greed to their dominant language. One service or two does not suffice the youth. The General Board loves to see numbers and money. Only if they were smart enough, they would have incorporated english and then would have seen a vast population arise up. It is due to this ignorance that many leave.
Statistical Facts:
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2006 (b)
14.8% in USA
White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2006
66.4% in USA
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html
What does that say about the AA wanting to win souls? Is it wanting to win souls or creating a religion for their OWN people? Did God not himself say everyone is created equal? Has the AA created a monster, a cult?
August 23, 2008 10:19 AM
I agree!! I remember a time when WHAT was the time for youth to open up more in their worship with God during a service was all but shut down because of the ignorant and narrow-minded ministers who thought that the youth was being overboard or whatever you want to call it. Agghh, the chains of dominance. I have also heard a minister or two state from the pulpit that "If you were not apostolic, you were going to hell". It is the old tradition that set the path for this type of behavior from our leaders,then it was digested by the peasants which is all of us. I know this does not apply to everyone,so no harsh feelings.
Folks, I know of trinitarians, assembly of God,etc people that have a real relationship with God REGARDLESS of them not practicing standards. Some of them put us to shame as a matter of fact.
Watch these in this order:
1.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTDfN1JWsFw
2.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZb1adOsr4Y
Salvation is an inside job!!
Thats just freeking GREAT!! I was born and baptised into a bloody CULT!!
Accion:
What are we to do? Will God honor our baptisms though we were baptised into a Spiritual Whore?
The tithes and offerings we gave were prostituted for houses, fancy cars etc...Not used for what they were intended.
Ugh!!
Lord, send help now!!
Call Warrior
You mentioned that some went to UPC or Mexico (pastors)
Are you talking about pastor's from California?
You were baptized for your sins. You did NOT get baptized to belong to an organization. I hope you were being sarcastic.
ArchAngle:
Good Handle by the way. As per my sarcasm, part yes, part no.
Think of it. I was baptised for the foregiveness of my sins. Absolutely. My Intent was combined with a pure heart and public act of baptism.
But, we were baptised into a corrupt organization whom, in my opinion, is a spiritual whore.
Personally, I was baptised by a minister who, as we find out later, was living in sin.
Can a sinner baptise a person? A bit of a gray area ya know.
The more research I do into our organization, the filthier I feel. The sins of our leaders go far and deeper than Pacheco's Car Scams. We are talking about whoring for dollars. Ministers/Leaders taking sexual advantage of those who deserve the most protection, children.
They harbor molesters and then sweep it under the rug.
How can we call our organization holy?
For pete's sake, we just found out about this plan for the Antonio C Nava Charity to PROFIT off the death of Apostolic Assembly Members. How sick is that?
I won't even go and mention how the Apostolic Church used the 9/11 Trajety to raise money for Flor Azul. Remeber the 9/11 Video used by Solomon?
Sick, It just makes you sick. I need some counseling here.
CBG (think i got that right)
all i know is F Hernandez' church is up and running and doing very well. Tafoya never wanted him here and the GB would not allow him to pastor as a result so he went under the FLC umbrella. He is not related to M Hernandez. Tafoya was just looking out for his cheese when it all comes down to it - "Show me the MONEY". If u are so persistant to know detail ask "your source"?
well im off to enjoy my weekend. See my peeps on Monday.
I have a word of encouragement for you.
Remember, you accepted the Almighty God himself when you confessed your sins.Then,you took the step to baptize yourself for the sins,REGARDLESS of your knowing of the other things that don't matter but ONLY YOU and GOD while you were being baptized and to this very present time as me and you chat. The devil is playing with your mind,he is a LIAR!! Everything that is going on in the AA does not matter and is insignificant to what is at hand-YOU and GOD,period.Everyday!Everyday! Be encouraged and look up to God as all these other things are a distraction.
1.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6K1ultg5Yc
BE ENCOURAGED HENRY!!
Bronze
I think we got our wire crossed somewhat.
What I'm trying to say is that nobody can do worse damage to the christians then we as christians ourselves. And I know that there is truth in what you say because we see in the bible also in the book of Acts 6:1 that there has been differences since then and before that as it is happening now,
but for those of us who have a passion for Christ cannot afford to be divided and taking sides regardless of who is doing the wrong. If we are Apostolic Cristians it is of the utmost necessity that we keep our focus on Christ.
the archangel
You have good focus.
we must remember that we personally are responsible and accountable for our sins and not someone elses.
cali warrior said...
the archangel
You have good focus.
we must remember that we personally are responsible and accountable for our sins and not someone elses.
August 23, 2008 5:15 PM
Thank you. Praise God for his eternal salvation to us. It feels good when you can help someone. I wish I could help everyone here on this forum but only to say for everyone to look up to the hill, God is waiting for us to reach him. He is in sight,you can just feel his presence.
Can someone answer this if the laws of the OLD TESTAMENT have been made OBSOLETE because of the NEW TESTAMENT(new covenant)...WHY r we still TITHING....all in the new testament paul brings up issiues of money and states give what you can, or give cheerfuly..etc but no where do you see the word tithing for the first christians....I WAS doing my research on this and i was shocked because the APOSTOLIC DOCTRINE taught me and many different...we tith of obedience and so that we can test GOD to open the windows of heaven to poor downd his blessing...but we dont see any of these teachings in the NEW TESTAMENT with the believers...
In this CORPORATION tithing is more imortant than offering...
It goes as far as if you want to become a deacon, minister, or hold a position of AUTHORITY in the church the main requirement is that you TITH. BISICALLY YOU PAY UR WAY TO A POSITION....
Please someone give me feed back on this TOPIC.???????
To Hallellllujah.
What? Arizona UPC treat you good.
Where have you been?
Now that you are earning "good salaries and professional jobs..we are treated real good.
Kenny Haney even called Brother Baldemar, but Baldemar is from way down in Texas and he knows the history of the UPC with minorities.
Sure be part of the growing "Hispanic Markt" contribute, but you can never be as a pastor member of their "General Board in Missouri..
The "Massa planation church are family owed and for their heirs..and be a contributor...
How would you like Sanchez and the rest of the GB and your pastor to arrive in a Limo to church on Sunday, hispanic brothers and sisters. Well Hallelujah Sister sure does...HUH Sister?
Has Georgina Marron left Glendale's church where Brother Tafoya used to pastor? She and Hortencia always follow "Bishops"
Also deacons PA and GR at Sanchez church. Oh yes Sanchez is president and also has a church in South Whittier. Didn't you know that? So is Valverde and the rest?
You didn't know this either?
In reality their churches are pastored by "deacons.. But the deacons do not get any salaries. Just "rubbing elbows"
Good $$$$. Wow....
Can someone POST A LIST OF EVERY STATE WHERE YOU ARE FROM ..OF EVERY PASTOR THAT HAS TAKEN OR BEEN TO COURT...BECAUSE BROTHER SAL LOPEZ AT THE CHURCH OF BROTHER ZUNIGA STATED THAT 'NO PASTOR HAS EVER TAKEN ANYONE TO 'COURT' AND HASCONTINUED TO BE A PASTOR...
IT WOULD BE GREAT IF SCOTTY, HENRY, CALLED TO PROCLAIM,;uehe2 APOSTOLIC ANALYST, AND ALL THE REST OF THE BLOGGERS, DO SOME RESEARCH IN YOUR OWN DISTRICT AND POST IT ON THE BLOGS. WHO ARE THE PASTORS THAT HAVE BEEN IN COURT..AND ARE STILL PASTORING....
THIS WAY SANCHEZ, ETC CAN RE-TRACT THEIR STATEMENTS.
We know brother Lugo from San Antonio, Brother Villegas from Austin,Brother Salvador Rodarte and their are many here in Califa..
Brother Baldemar, Brother Zuniga and Brother Abel Torres and Brother Saul Avila need this information and we all need it too.
La Iglesia de Mexico is also like the AA. It formed the CID which Del Campo brought over to get "high rating" and be in the GB appointed by Sanchez.
The wife of the President of La Iglesia de Mexico is a "Pacheco" and she is very arrogant too like the Maffey wife and Aguilar's and Pacheco.
These women need to be "educated" in humility and kindness.
Someday they will be also be forgotten and left alone like the past GB wives are now. Ask Jauhall's wife.. Wow she learned..too late.
TO Called to Proclaim:
You have made such an ignorant statement when you said;
It goes as far as if you want to become a deacon, minister, or hold a position of AUTHORITY in the church the main requirement is that you TITH. BISICALLY YOU PAY UR WAY TO A POSITION....
I know you do not believe that you can pay your way into a position.
I’m beginning to wonder if your intention is to inform or merely to provoke readers to rebellion and division.
I know you are more intelligent then you sometimes make yourself out to be by your comments
To called2proclaim,
You are such a blank! Why are you asking blank questions on a blog?
Buy your position? No futher comment. You big blank!
Paul not the apostle:
All i want is an answer regarding tithing?
why didnt new testament believers not follow the old laws and even the teachings about tithing Malic 3: 10.????
DO research and study it then post ur comment............thanks for responding anyways...the reason i say they pay their way trough is because i have seen like many that they have ordained and iniciated people that have committid acts of evil....but because they tithed they let them pass and the AA hides the sins under the rug...all they care about is that money comes in...............
BTW called2proclaim- How do you have time to be on this blog everyday????Please someone
give me feedback on this topic?????
Oh, No! Or are you going to go delete your blank blank post with your blank question?
maaaaan your even on at night!!!
To Paul & think first....Here is ur answer in case u didnt know...seems like u guys dont from what i see...goodnight....
The History of Tithing
The modern definition of tithing is giving 10% of one’s income to a religious organization. During New Testament times "tithing" referred to the Jewish practice of giving 10% of one's income to support the Temple. The words "tithing" and "tithe" come from an old English word meaning "tenth".
Genesis 14:20 contains the first Biblical reference to the practice of tithing. After Abraham is victorious in a battle against some neighboring kings, he gives a tithe of his treasure to Melchizedek the high priest of Salem. It is important to note that Abraham tithes voluntarily and, as far as we know, he tithes only once.
It was not until 500 years later (circa 1500 BC), after the exodus of the people of Israel from Egypt, that God instituted a law requiring the people of Israel to tithe (Numbers 18:21-26). The purpose of the tithing law was to provide support for the priests and Levites who served in the Tent of Meeting. Another law requiring each Jewish male to pay an annual temple tax had a similar purpose to the tithing law (Ex 38:26). The Tent of Meeting was where the priests administered sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins committed by the people of Israel.
In about 950 BC, King Solomon built a temple in Jerusalem to replace the Tent of Meeting (1 Kings 6 – 10). Upon completion of the Temple, the priests and Levites relocated their sacrificial ministry from the Tent to the Temple. The people continued to support the priests through tithing and the temple tax.
From this time forward, the Jewish people practiced tithing with varying degrees of compliance until the last Temple was destroyed by the Romans around 70 AD. With the destruction of the Temple, the ancient Jews ceased tithing as there was no longer a Temple or priestly ministry in need of support.
The Christian Church emerged some time before the destruction of the Temple (Acts 2). Almost all of the first Christians were of Jewish descent, many of whom struggled with understanding how their new faith in Jesus impacted their practice of Judaism. The Letter to the Hebrews was written to such Jewish Christians. It taught that the Temple was no longer necessary, as forgiveness of sins now came through faith in the death and resurrection of Christ, not through the sacrificial ministry of priests in the Temple (Heb 10). It follows that if the Temple and the priests were not necessary, tithing to support them would also not be necessary. Considering this, it is not surprising that there is no record of Jewish Christians tithing to the Temple after the foundation of the Church. Additionally, the New Testament does not contain any command that Christians tithe.
References to tithing in the New Testament are limited to Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42, Luke 18:12 and Hebrews 7:8-9. The verses in Matthew and Luke are spoken to Jews still subject to the tithing laws, not to Christians. In these verses, Jesus questions the priorities of Jews who place a heavier emphasis on tithing than on charity, mercy and the like. The author of Hebrews refers to tithing to make the point that Christ is greater than the Jewish high priest (Heb 7:8-9, see also Matt 17:26). The author does not instruct Jewish Christians to tithe. To do so would contradict the main theme of the letter which is to prove to Jewish Christians that the resurrection of Christ renders the Temple obsolete.
Soon after Pentecost, with the help of the Apostle Paul, the Christian faith spreads beyond Israel and many Gentiles become Christians. (Jews refer to non-Jews as Gentiles). The first Gentile converts to Christianity were often "God-Fearers." God-Fearers were Gentiles who appreciated Judaism and attended Jewish synagogue services, but did not convert to Judaism usually due to the circumcision requirement. As God-Fearers did not undergo circumcision and convert to Judaism, they were not expected to follow the Jewish Law, meaning they were not obligated to tithe, pay the temple tax, obey the sabbath and the like.
In each city the Apostle Paul visited, he evangelized the local synagogue first, resulting in God-Fearers and Jews converting to Christianity. These new Christians formed local churches in homes (Acts 8:3, Rom 16:5, 1 Cor 16:19, Col 4:15, Phm 1:2). Paul and his colleagues repeated this process in several cities, founding churches in Galatia, Ephesus, Thessalonica, Philippi, Colossae and elsewhere.
As Paul traveled from city to city, he would instruct his churches remotely through letters. These letters make up the bulk of the New Testament. Some of them were likely written prior to the destruction of the Temple (e.g. 1 Thessalonians and Galatians). Paul insists that Gentile Christians (including God-Fearers) reject circumcision and subjection to the Jewish Law (Gal 5:2-6). It is not surprising then, that Paul never suggests that Gentile Christians begin tithing to the Temple or paying the Temple tax. Nor does Paul--or any other New Testament author-- institute any system similar to tithing for the support of the Church.
Since there was no New Testament equivalent to tithing, a question arises regarding how churches were supported. During New Testament times, churches were not institutions. They did not have dedicated buildings or full-time leaders supported by attendees. Instead, churches were similar to modern day home groups. They met in homes with leaders who had means of income other than congregational support. New Testament churches, in other words, had no costs of operation.
Just because they did not tithe does not mean that the early Christians neglected supporting their leaders or giving to Charity. Paul teaches that apostles had the right to request financial support, a right Paul himself did not exercise because he did not want to burden the congregation (1 Cor 9:14-15). The churches also routinely supported widows, orphans and other poor people (1 Tim 5:9, Acts 2:45, Acts 6:1). Paul placed a special emphasis on supporting famished Christians in Jerusalem, asking the Corinthian Christians to take a regular collection for a time to support them. Before asking this, he reminds the Corinthians that the collection is voluntary and not a command (2 Cor 9:7). In summary, whether to apostles or charity, the early Church gave freely as they had means, not because of an expectation or religious requirement that they give a fixed percentage of their income. The Church continued with this voluntary approach to giving for over three centuries.
In the fourth century, the Roman Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity. Prior to Constantine’s conversion, Christianity was illegal and, as discussed above, churches met secretly in homes with part-time leaders who had other sources of income. After his conversion, Constantine made Christianity both legal and a status symbol causing the Church to expand rapidly. The Church moved out of homes and into buildings and employed full-time ministers, thus creating a much greater need for income. The New Catholic Encyclopedia's article on tithing nicely summarizes this situation and what happened next:
"The early Church had no tithing system. The tithes of the Old Testament were regarded as abrogated by the law of Christ…..As the Church expanded, however, and its material needs grew more numerous and complex, it became necessary to adopt a definite rule to which people could be held either by a sense of moral obligation or by a precept of positive law. The tithing of the Old Law provided an obvious model and it began to be taught—more commonly in the West, however, than in the East—that the faithful should give tithes of their income. When the view began to get sufficient support, it found legislative expression. The Council of Macon in 585 ordered payment of tithes and threatened excommunication to those who refused to comply."
Summary and Conclusions
Catholic Christians believe in the authority of the Pope, the Councils and the Bible. As such, they tithe as defined by the Council of Macon and later pronouncements on tithing. For Protestant Christians relying solely on the Bible to inform their faith and practice, understanding early Church practice as reflected in the New Testament result in some different conclusions regarding giving:
1. Each time the New Testament talks about tithing, it is referring to the Old Testament law requiring Jews to give 10% of their income to support the operation of the Temple and the Jewish priests. The Letter to the Hebrews teaches that Christ's sacrifice rendered the Temple and the priests obsolete. This is why the New Testament never applies the practice of tithing (i.e. giving 10% of one’s income to support the Temple) to Christians.
2. The requirement that Christians "tithe" (tithing here meaning giving ten percent of one's income to support Church buildings and pastors similar to how the Jews tithed to support the Temple and priests) was devised by the Church in 585 AD, centuries after the New Testament was written. This further explains why such a requirement is not mentioned in the New Testament.
3. While the New Testament neither instructs nor suggests that Christians set aside a fixed percentage of their income to support Church leaders or church buildings, it does encourage Christians to give freely and generously to worthy causes such as aged parents, the poor, missionaries and Church leaders.
4. The New Testament states that Church leaders may earn their living from the Church, meaning the leaders may appeal to the Church for voluntary support.
5. The New Testament does not give guidance on Christian priorities when deciding whether, or how much, to give to the church, missionaries or the poor. This means the common Protestant teaching that the local church should have pride of place in Christian giving (before charity, missions or other religious causes) has no Biblical support. It is worth mentioning that 1 Tim 5:8, 1 Tim 5:2 and Mark 7:11 suggest that caring for one’s family and parents is a top priority.
6. The New Testament encourages giving out of abundance or prosperity. It does not expect sacrificial giving, although it does commend it. (See Luke 21:2-4, 2Cor 8:14, 1 Cor 16:2 and 2 Cor 8:8).
Calledtoproclaim:
Don't bother with "paul not the apostle."
He's just tryin to kiss enough butts so that MAYBE they can make him AT LEAST a deacon.
Theres a ummmm REASON why he's not allowed to...
Cochino...
I'll never be able to think of that church the same way again...
YUCK!
To the person who said the GB took our church away:
I am familiar with FLC and I believe it is about time that something was done. How can you blindly follow men that have abused their power over the church for so long? I am referring to the Hernandez family. I mean come one already. Your former pastor had a new car every year! None of which were cars particular to a pastor of a congregation of 300 - 400 persons. Here is a list of some of his cars that the church members (you) paid for. A Bentley (Rolls Royce) By the way this was his second RR. A Cadillac Escalade, a Porsche, a BMW 8 series, various old lower riders (I mean did he still want to cruise Whittier Blvd?) What about the Hummer, the Lamborghini, the RV, the Navigator, the many Mercedes, the many luxury van conversions, and so many more. And you KNOW that all of these care had custom wheels and tires with price tags into the 1000’s.
So when little Isaac because the next one to continue the abuse of the past something had to be done. I was there the day he gave his wife Angela a $5000.00 Rolex. He bragged about it in front of the church members. How was that suppose to honor God. And why was it that every year the Jubilee NEVER made any money? I KNOW…into the Hernandez pockets. Little Isaac never worked a day in his entire life. He never went to prayer. He never was a man of consecration. He would sit outside and watch the Lakers during service and only come in to play his lil bass (That he is good in).
I am still in FLC today and I am glad the Hernandez Kingdom is over!
Isaac! Where is the $30,000 that was supposed to pay the taxes?
Isaac! Where is the Jubilee Money?
Isaac! Where did all the church fund go?
Angela! How could you spend so much of God’s Money?
Angela! How could you think the Tithes and Offerings were yours?
Isaac! Where is the over $250,000.00 that you took over the last 3 or 4 years?
Isaac! Did you have to take everything out of the church when you left?
It was not yours! It did not belong to you!
Isaac and Angela! How much $$$ did you take after you found out you were not going to be the Pastor?
The list can go on and on and on…
It’s sad that Little Isaac’s reign came to an abrupt end because I know he did not expect it nor did his family need to go through this mess. But enough was enough. I believe God loved the Hernandez family enough to show them in the only way that they would understand that God was to be worship and none else. Now FLC can go one to be the church God wanted.
I heard that now that Isaac and Angela are gone the church will be saving more that $20,000.00 each month in payroll. Poor little Isaac.
And by the way… So glad we got rid of Rick Ramirez! I am sure everyone remembers him. Maybe I will write something about him in the near future.
Thank you GB for doing the right thing in this case! I highly respect you!
Yay........ you probably should want to delete that one^. It's too long and nobody is buying your tithing propaganda. Next!!
ops my last post was for called2pro
TO ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF THE AA.
ALERT ALERT ALERT............
JUST RECEIVED A CALL FROM MY SISTER IN NEW YORK THAT VALVERDE JUST CAME FROM THE OLYMPICS IN CHINA..
CAME BACK VIA 'ROME'
I could not believe it so Iam posting it on the blogs. Is it true that Sam Valverde went to the
Olympics in China?
Here's the story. Today Valverde met with some Pastors, who are still going to meetings.. Many are now responding..
Of course the subject was $$$$.
Valverde stated that there will be $$$ DRIVE specifically a "Gold Medal, Silver Medal or a "Bronze Medal" awarded to each Pastor of a AA Church, accordingly.
Interestly enough it will be starting "NOW" to be awarded in the next Convention for the amount of money designated for the corresponding award.
Valverde stated a "must" will be $10,000.00 per church as a starter.
And of course the "sky" is the limit...
We must remember what the Bible states/
"We are saved by GRACE and Not by WORKS."
\
Get ready "Florazul, Varones and Messengers of Peace" who were also appointed in Long Beach.
Get ready Misael Zaragosa and Juanito Hernandez;Pastor of Oceanside.. YOU TWO NEVER LET THE GB DOWN.
And of course Abel Aguilar you will be the MC to collect you are good at "Grants" too.
The situation is very serious for the New corporation set up now also in Atlanta, Ga.
We were asked by the Law of Moses in Malicah to bring our tithes.
10 %
These men do not have enough...
And did you hear they have churches salaries too. PLUS also GB salaries.tHERE ARE TO BE A LAW AND AN AUDIT ON THIS...BUT WHO.?? .HENRY...........
SCOTTY////...................
PRAYING ABOUT THIS......HELP ME TO INTERCEED..IN JESUS NAME.
How long are we going to keep our heads in denial...Pray and "REBUKE in the name of Jesus.
WHO ACCOMPANIED VALVERDE TO CHINA?
called to proclaim
On tithing, I tithe because of obedience to God. And it would behoove you to read your bible again in the gospels at that and let the Holy Ghost show you. The pharisees were tithers even though they possibly did it for the wrong reasons, but Matthew 5:20 says that except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
I know that where money is concerned anything is bound to happen, but in any case I myself will give account of what I do whether right or wrong and then again so will you and all those others who go against the will of God. Why take a chance. If people are tithing because of good conscious what gives you the authority to be their judge as to what they do with their money. I'm sure that they have read their bible and are not ignorant of what they are doing. All these trinitarian teachers have a way to infiltrate our churches to try to bring us down with their teachings. Experience the love of God and I will assure you that you will do more then tithe.
pual not the AP,
I THINK everyone knows about RR. Is he still in the AA? He's not a pastor is he?
THANKS 'CALLED TO PROCLAIM'
ITS GREAT...
BUT JESUS SAID IT VERY WELL..
'GIVE TO CESAR WHAT IS OF CESAR
"AND TO GOD WHAT IS GOD'S'
IT'S THAT EASY..
ENOUGH THEOLOGY...WE MUST GIVE TO RECEIVE...
"AND TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN...MUCH IS REQUIRED."..(THE BIBLE STATES).
BOTTOM LINE.....GIVE AND YOU SHALL RECEIVED 'PRESSED DOWN AND OVER FLOWING'
REMEMBER WE GIVE AS GOD SAYS, AND 'THEY WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE' IF THEY MISUSE IT...
Just read on msn.com about the olympian village where the athletes from different countries stay during the olympics being described as a place where sex orgies are rampant on a daily basis. That just goes to show what kind of people we support while at the same time defaming the church.
cali warrior said...
called to proclaim
On tithing, I tithe because of obedience to God. And it would behoove you to read your bible again in the gospels at that and let the Holy Ghost show you. The pharisees were tithers even though they possibly did it for the wrong reasons, but Matthew 5:20 says that except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
I know that where money is concerned anything is bound to happen, but in any case I myself will give account of what I do whether right or wrong and then again so will you and all those others who go against the will of God. Why take a chance. If people are tithing because of good conscious what gives you the authority to be their judge as to what they do with their money. I'm sure that they have read their bible and are not ignorant of what they are doing. All these trinitarian teachers have a way to infiltrate our churches to try to bring us down with their teachings. Experience the love of God and I will assure you that you will do more then tithe.
................................
thats exactly what im saying I HAVE EXPERIENCed and encounterd the LOVE of jesus.....that is y i help the poor with food and money..and more importantly take care of my own home FIRST...
when people tith they tith to the church and they know clearly that it is being missused...like u said somday they will give an account I suggest you thinkfist where u tith...if u know that the money is benig miss used it is better to pray and ask GOD to teach u where u can use the MONEY more effectivly or do you still want to pay off VALVERDES house??????
Malverde es un freeking money changers. Soldout Jesus.
By the way – I am looking to become a deacon. That was funny.
The History of Tithing was informative. Thank you for posting it. I am in no way qualified to be a master on neither the subject nor any other Biblical theme. I just enjoy reading and studying as do most of you.
I think the writer of that article was looking to discredit tithing. For anyone looking to find a reason to tithe because it is what we believe to be right before the Lord, I the following simple statements;
Example 1
“But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.” Luke 11:42
Here Jesus said the Pharisees should have not ignored the Judgment and Love of God and should “not leave the other undone”. Meaning they should continue to tithe.
Example 2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. 1 Corinthians 16:2
The only equal way for believers to give and support their church is by giving a percentage of what they receive as income. This is what Paul said, “let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him”. Each of us is to set aside a portion of what God has given to us.
Ok, as I now write out my tithing check for Sunday service – I will await the Biblical Theologians to belittle me for my faith.
called to proclaim
I do not tithe to Valverde.
I tithe where the need is and that is my local church. And would you believe that there are Pastors who are accountable to their congregations and give reports either monthly or every 3 months, so don't try to sink the whole ship with one stone. I trust the Lord and His righteousness will prevail. He will give the rewards, its His church, He will recompense the righteous and the unrighteous.
Dear Think
I hear he went to attend church in Union City.
I hope Bishop Lopez will not use him in the School.
To Paul not an Apostle:
Thanks for the "lenghty" hisory on
"Little Isaac"
I happen to have known Brother David Hernandez and sister Rose when they were extremely poor.
They worked very hard at a ministry that not many of us would have even attempted...But they helped many. MAYBE EVEN YOU PAUL...
I know it's very wrong on all 'those extravagences" of cars. Etc.....
Sorry their kids (Isaac) went wild)
In misappropiation of funds..
BUT don't thank the GB for "doing" a good job??
Who is auditing them.? Can you believe they make about $10,ooo.00 per month of the Gb salary.....and have church salaries also in the thousands per month..CAN YOU BELIEVE THEM..
Can you believe that this is only a stipulation. Because the TRESURER MAFFY would not respond when he is asked on the GB salaries.
Try calling him at (909)987-3013 and ask Maffey to give you a monthly report on the GB salaries.
You have a "RIGHT" to ask for this as a MEMBER OF THE APOSTOLIC ASSEMBLY OF THE FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS INCORPORATED...
Did you know you have a right to ask for this information?
Try it...
Well the cleaning up of FLC was good to you. But what about cleaning up the GB for you and us.
"Even,.... even"...... should be the cause. This is what you call that the "balance is out of wack"
"Some can and others CAN"T>>
You saw the evil at FLC and you did good research for us. THANKS... Now do A good
research for the AA on the General Board...I DARE YOU......
THANKS.....
YOU CAN ALSO DEMAND AN AUDIT...
Any one can ....
BECAUSE IT IS A NON PROFIT CORPORATION...
Stop worrying about RR pray for him, so you won't fall in the same error.
He has a very sweet and lovely wife. Pray for her too..
WITH ALL RESPECT U GUYS R APOSTOLIC ASSEMBLY BRAINWASHED>>
called to proclaim
Yes we are Apostolics but it has more to do with the love for Jesus Christ and His mission than belonging to the Apostolic Assembly.
Also there are many other organization that practice tithing. Why don't you surrender your life to the Lord Jesus Christ and let Him be your guide in facet of your life, not just tithing. We know that tithing alone will not get us into the kingdom of heaven but if we seek Him and the kingdom of heaven, all these things shall be added unto thee. The blessings of the Lord.
sO...
IS IT TRUE THAT Valverde
CALLS HIS MEMBERS TO
"REMIND" THEM Give Their Tithes???
i MEAN who does that HONESTLY????
What Kind Of Pastor ACTUALLY CALLS THEIR mEMBERS to GET THEIR money?!?!??
so... is MONEY ALL valverde Worships??
www.nuevafortaleza.org
Live webcast
Get the facts for yourself
Dr./Pastor Baldemar's church will be going live!
www.nuevafortaleza.org
To Paul, not the Apostle (of course Not)
You sound pretty informed...Why don't you do some reseach also on the reason RR went to Union City. Here at FOT we are concerned..
Heared that Pastor Adam Lopez, who no longer is Bishop of that Northern District, by the way..
The Bishop there is Bishop Joe Rodriguez Jr.,
Anyway if RR went to Union City let it be what do you care..
Did you know that Sanchez and Valverde, who is still having "jet lag" from China's Olympics..
They do not care what goes on in Union City.
Why, of lately Adam Sr.,appointed Adam Jr. (florazuler) as you call them to being the Pastor of the Hispanic Church...Who cares? Do you.? No you don't.
This, Iam sure, Nathaniel Ramirez can very well experience, because he was "ousted" from the Salinas Church, when his father Tomas Ramirez, tried to turn over the Hispanic Services to Nathaniel..
I still have some of those letters that Nathaniel wrote to the Gb during those years...Only to go to "deaf ears"
But Union City gets away with all kinds of "doings" After all who raises thousands of $$$ during
the conventions..
And now with "Gold, Silver and Bronze Medals, as I recently heard on the blogs..well "All is well at the Western Front" with Union City...
So see Paul, not the Apostole,
Some can and "others" CAN't.
Apparently you do not know this Dirty Game...How old are you?
(16) No wonder.....
OK Apostolicos.
Here is a question for you!
How can you be under a system of grace and then have to pay tithes?
Theological Contradiction.
To all who think Baldemar and Daniel Solomon are righteous men, please read the lawsuit against the AA from Gregory Ruff.
The lawsuit states when he entered an agreement with AA, that the AA board members (which included Daniel Solomon and Baldemar Rodriguez) allowed him to sell memorial insurance. Initially Gregory Ruff would have to make a monetary investment and a time investment, but once everything was up and running then he would be entitled to all the profits. The Plantiff says that the board members met without him present (Secretly) and decided to cut off Mr. Ruff and give all proceeds to a good ole boy (Another Apostolic Member)
If this is true, then Danny Soloman, Baldeliar along with the other names mentioned are guilty of fraud. Now this tells me that Baldeliar and Solomentidas are dishonest people. Is it not funny how these men are suing the assembly for voter fraud and now Gregory Ruff has named them a defendents for his fradulent lawsuit. Since Abel Torres is the only righteous man in all of this, I wonder if he was aware of their dishonesty toward Gregory Ruff? I guess what comes around goes around.
to the Blogmaster, would it be possible for you to contact Baldeliar and Solomentiras to address questions by all bloggers. Since I get the feeling they are the ones secretly behind the blog like Art Tafoya is the Webmaster for AA.info. Since Baldeliar was acting like a martyre by on Skotty will show you video, I think he needs to be asked some questions.
Onguard
sola dei gloria said...
OK Apostolicos.
Here is a question for you!
How can you be under a system of grace and then have to pay tithes?
Theological Contradiction.
August 24, 2008 5:22 PM
...................................
AMEN.. to that...that is what i have been trying to tell every one...GOD BLESS u. and may god keep giviing u the WISDOM and Knowledge from above...
To On Guard:
Hey where have you been?
Brother Baldemar, Salomon, Sanchez and of Course Valverde were in that Gb during the Ruff problem..
Ask Danny Sanchez and Sammy. They know too and maybe lots more than you do.
To Call to Proclaim"
Don't agree so fast with Sola de Gloria y NOMAS on the theological issue, if that is what you want to call it on tithes..
Its in the Bible about tithes..and offerings. The Bible states "it is better to obey than all the sacrifices."
I do not like "Sola de Gloria" You sound Baptist...Where did you go to school? As you say California Christian College in Riverside?
Sounds like it..
What are you doing in an Apostolic Assembly Blog?..Did you get this info from "LA OPINION"?
We believe as the Bible teaches. That does not mean that we do as The Bible teaches as far as "love, charity, sincerity and giving which is important. But unfortunately we have been too poor and now MONEY has gone to our heads.
True we are saved by Grace and not by Works..But the Bible also teaches us on Stewardship...
What we are concerned about is the "misappropiation of funds".
If you know so much why don't you do an "audit om the AA?
You can ..you know..Its a non-profit corporation ..
Sanchez and the rest are "our" employees...But we have "no Bold and wise respected man to "confront" these issues with them.
Even the Plaintiffs are "way off base"
The first thing in their agenda should be to have a "total and complete audit" of theGB.
And of their churches..
Why not? That's the Millon dollar question.
With no answer Misters and Mrsssss know it all.............................
Yes that's true, just keep on "talking" it's cheap and no production.
"Sola de Gloria,,,goodbye..There is something about you that I know very well......
Are you visiting FOT? I thought soo..You sound like Rachel and Sam friend...Maybe E. Pacheco....
Being here and there said...
To Call to Proclaim"
Don't agree so fast with Sola de Gloria y NOMAS on the theological issue, if that is what you want to call it on tithes..
Its in the Bible about tithes..and offerings. The Bible states "it is better to obey than all the sacrifices.".................................................................
CALLED2PROCLAIM said..
I DONT AGREE WITH U.Being here and there
.you need to understand that we are not under the LAW we are under GRACE..GOD doesnt need ur MONEY he wants ur heart...and HE wants u and every one else to OBEY this GO to all the earth and PREACH the GOSPEL
(death, burial and ressurection of JESUS CHRIST)..to all men...he did not say preach TITHING to all men........are we here as PASTORS to win MONEY or win SOULS for CHRIST.....please study tithing put ur AA.CONSTITUTION AWAY and ask GOD to reveal to you his NEW COVENANT...
..............................
Being here and there said...
What we are concerned about is the "misappropiation of funds".
If you know so much why don't you do an "audit om the AA?
You can ..you know..Its a non-profit corporation ..
Sanchez and the rest are "our" employees...But we have "no Bold and wise respected man to "confront" these issues with them.
Even the Plaintiffs are "way off base"
The first thing in their agenda should be to have a "total and complete audit" of theGB.
And of their churches..
Why not? That's the Millon dollar question.
August 24, 2008 7:48 PM
..............................
called2proclaim:
thats exactly what is going on we the church know that there is misuse of funds we dont need to make an audit all we need to do is know where you put ur money into....we the church need to get away from a SYSTEM of man made rules and doctrine..and we need to follow the DOCTRINE of the APOSTLES...not the doctrine of the AA that is formed like a GOVERMENT...
CHRIST came not to fulfill the LAW but to break the LAW...making it OBSOLETE..
the GRACE of GOD be with u...
Is it really helping anything to keep reaching into the past and bringing up "sordid" details about what so and so did five, ten or thirty years ago. I'm sure we all have skeletons in our closet and we could go on and on forever digging them out. It still doesn't make it right what our leaders, or we for that matter, are doing right now in the present. I mean does anyone think that when Judgement Day comes and we have to account to Him that we might be able to excuse our misdeeds because "so and so did it too"? I kinda doubt that's gonna work.
We should stick to the present and try to bring about changes for the FUTURE of our church. Its about the FUTURE, because the PAST can no longer be changed. That is what I think the "Plaintiffs" have tried to bring about. An awareness to what is being done wrong and needs to be changed or improved.
They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire." – 2 Peter 19-22
Sounds familiar? Sounds like the AA to me in their current situation!!! Yikes!!!
To Called 2 Proclaim'
Obiously you are not a Pastor.
But let me tell you this few things. You are very right. We are saved by "Grace" and not by "works"
You are right. But the Bible tells us " That money responds to everything."
Also "Give to Cesar that which is of Cesar (The government IRS taxes etc.) and Give to God that which of God."
Yes, we are not in the "Law" according to Moses..God did not only give to Moses at Sinai the 10 Commandments. God also gave Moses the law especially in Exodus, and Deuteronomy...
It is also repeated in Hebrews and many letters of Paul.
Some one wrote in the blogs the whole information and history of titheing.
Great, so I won't go into that.
But I remember specifically many years ago one sister coming to me to tell me to pray for her husband who was an unbeliever, and who was very angry at the Pastor who was always asking for money.
Its too long a story, but one day I had the opportunity to speak to him and because of my secular credentials he listened to me. Only because of his wife's prayers and also the church and that
I could be of help to him.
That was HIS only concern at that time. "How could I help him?"
I asked him..Some simple questions.."When you visit the Aposotolic Church do they have benches for you to sit on. Do they have air condition or do they
heating in the winter. Do they have lights for the people to see. Do they have water and restrooms. Do they have imstruments. Does the Pastor have shoes to wear ect., and does his wife and children look well nurished.?"
Others things I asked him that would take forever.
He responded "Yes" to all. Then I asked him, "where do you think the money comes from to provide all this for the church and visitors?
For the Pastor and his family?"
A few months later he was baptized and is still attending church with his wife the church of Inglewood.
You may not agree with me on this.
Its your priviledged to do so. But when money is appropriately distributed accordingly it works.
You, it appears to me that you do not agree with titheing because it does not specifically states in the New Testament, as it does in Malachi...Don't worry my dear sister. Others believe and give.
Old Testament Malachi 3:10
NEW TESTAMENT; LUKE 18:12; Hebrews 7:5; Hebrews 7:8 and Heb. 7:9
The Jewish Nation are taught at an early age to pay 10% and more. All the first earnings. The Seventh Day Adventists pay 20%
The Mormons pay 20% and more.
But don't forget my dear Sister the AA is the only Church and UPC and PAW going to Heaven.
Do do as you please.. Any way you remember we are "Saved by Grace and Not by Works. Ephesians 2:8.
Now we say that the 12 Apostoles were instructed by the Lord Jesus how to work and how to evangelize...
Read Matthew 10:1-8-24.
THIS CHAPTER IS AWESOME...
ITS ALL THERE WHAT THE GB SHOULD BE DOING..BUT NO, THEY ARE NOT.
Remember they will say BOARD MEETINGS (Bored Meetings)are their calling...Let the Deacons take care of the church..
But Give Us the salary the GB says.
THIS IS WHY THE AA IS LIKE IT IS.
We have lost our bearings...
If the Gb is auditing Pastors and churches..Then you audit them too..
I heard it will be soon...
Just keep on giving YOUR 10% the Lord will multiple your blessings. They will be responsible for and give account to God.
Yes. Something is being done...
Plaintiffs "GET YOUR AGENDA ON FOCUS...THIS TIME"
GOD BLESS YOU...WE ARE PRAYING FOR YOU...
Called 2 Proclaim...Keep up the good work. I hope I was of some help. This is truly my wish. From the bottom of my heart...
RightGaurd
You are completly wrong about the G.Ruff lawsuit. It was actually D. Sanchez that was presiding Bishop in 2003 that committed the fraud! Read page 5 #20!!
In 1998 while under B. Rodriguez, Gregory Ruff was instated. Yet B. Rodriguez was out of office in 2002. Therefore, the presiding bishop of the AA was D. Sanchez. Who of course, wrongfully released G. Ruff in 2003 (as stated in the lawsuit) he committed FRAUD!! D. Sanchez wrongfully terminate someone and commit fraud? Noooo!!! The AA is going to split in two if he does..oh wait a minute..he already has..
So read the lawsuit again, the proof is in the pooding!
Get your facts straight RightGaurd, you're beginning to stink!
I'm glad you pointed this out, you proved the real fraud committer was your very own "trophy bishop"!
Wow, even when you try to discredit B. Rodriguez, you fail miserably and prove your own bishop wrong!! What a sad little man!
Good write up on tithes and offerings.
Give your 10% where ever you think it is needed.
If you are not happy with what your Pastor is doing with your money, go to another church where you can see a report on what is going on financially.
The only one that stinks in this blog, is the impostor
rev 4 injustice that is trying to steal my blog name.
How can you even say to ongard to get your facts straith, you thief.
The real and original factsonly1 in front of God almighty!
Being here and being there.
If you believed what the bible taught, you wouldn’t be in the Apostolic Assembly. What distinguishes Christianity from every other religion is the “Person” and “Finished Work” of Christ. As soon as someone says you “have to”, you are no longer under grace. Every other religion is based upon their own ”doctrine”. Biblical Christianity is based on the “personhood” of Jesus. As soon you walk away from grace all you have is a “club”. And then, all you are is a “club member”. You don’t like me because I shaken the foundation of your club. Tithes are necessary. But you give by faith and not obligation. Tithes are necessary. So you ask by faith and not by compulsion. I am not Baptist. (27 years in the Apostolic Assembly), I just understand the scriptures better that you do.
Sola...
I tend to somewhat sgree.. and frankly enjoy the intellectualness of your postings...
again even if i don;t agree in lock-step with you, it seems you have taken the time and effort to study and evolve your understanind of the issues...
stay ont hat path.. I write this becuz i was concerened when I read...
"I just understand the scriptures better that you do."
Never take that attitude... I know you probably didn't mean it in the sense that you wrote it... but the instant we think we know.. or understand... we stop learning...
hence the AA (Lol) we are the truth and the way... that why they are deceive and are lost.. LOL
don't take this in a negative light... just looking out for you...
Thanks Chairman.
I appreciate the comments.
And yes you are right, I should have omitted that last comment.
Although he did try to insult my education.
Thanks. I wil take your advice.
in regards to tithing...
in regards to giving..
either give it willingly.. or don't bother..
where to give it..
give it where you believe it will be best put to use... if it's not your local church (well have no clue why you are there to begin with.. but that's another issue) give it to another church.. or NGO, or charitable trust or organization... the scripture doesn't say it has to be to the AA, so stop thinking as if it has to...
to whom to give it...
Again, give it to whoemever will do the most with what you give.
Think of it as an investment int he betterment of your brother in need.. or as an outright investment. You would never invest in a brokerage that was known for fraud, theft, and outright mismanagement. So why give it to the AA (In larger %, yes I know not everyone)
How much?
Give what you can, that can be 3, 4, 9, 15%, as you wish, and depending to your own ability.
Give it as a gesture of gratitude to your creater, not as an act of obedience to any MAN.
Sound words Chairman.
It's not what you give, but how you give it.
It's not what you ask for, but how you ask.
sola dei gloria said...
Sound words Chairman.
.................................
we should not be forced to give...we should give freely.
May the GRACE of GOD be with u both and I Pray that all bloggers STUDY and ask GOD for the REVELATION regarding TITHING...
sola dei gloria..Preach the TRUTH and it will not return VOID it will produce FREEDOM.....
BeinhereThere
To get an idea of what salaries the gb gets . We can ask BR he was one of our president's.
That will have is more less amount.
May Skotty can ask?
With all due respect, Sola, Chairman, ll, Seeker, Beenthere, you are researching earthly sources for tithing.
You need to consult deeper theological and intellectual resources. Those which are straight from heaven. They that go deeper than the Word.
May I humbly recommend you ask La Puente Bible School's Proudest Alumns, Malverde and Pachueco.
Ask not what your Asamblea can do for you, ask what you can do for the Asamblea!!
We should all strive to get the Asamblea's Gold Medal of Giving.
Silver and Gold we have, and the Asamblea wants it all.
Leave no Diezmo Behind!
That was a joke. Right, Henry.
My issue is not about Tithing. It’s about grace. If you “have to give” (obligation), your not in grace. It’s that simple.
Sola:
Obedience is better than sacrifice. So, you can be a double blessing by busting out with your 10% and adding a sacrificial offering where it hurts your wallet.
It aint cheap running an Asamblea.
The Lord loves the cheerful giver.
Where does that leave the non cheerful giver.
How you are asked for it. Determines how you give it.
Even if you aren't in the AA, don't you think your local church needs the tithing? Everyone is hurting financially right now so as a result the church is too. Our sanctuary, safe place, the place we run to in times of trouble suffers when people don't give. We expect the church to offer all of the amenities and programs but without money it can't survive. We've moved away from the sisters selling tamales to raise money. God doesn't need our money he needs our obedience.
E.Dewey Smith Jr.-"Ministering With Suspect Credentials"
this is a must see!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mvZifSuIPc
My real opinion, no joking, no sarcasm.
Tithing is biblical. God established it in the early stages back in Deut. for a purpose. Its biblical and those who practice it are blessed.
The issue I have with tithing and the AA, is that the AA does not practice tithing for its purpose. Read Deuteronomy. There are responsabilities to adminstrating the tithes. Paying the light bill and the church mortgage are not the only use. The bible is very specific as to its use.
Sorry, funding Sam's trip to China and Pachueco's Mercedes are not them.
In fact, the way the AA uses the money collected under "tithes" literally is mis-use.
This is why I say, very openly that that AA Pimps God's Word for some silver. They are literally Whoring the Word to line up its pockets.
Gold, Silver and Broze Medal's to those that give the most? Are you freeking serious??!?!?!?
Now the intent and purpose of giving are gone. What's the end use? What Biblical Purpose has been accomplished? We pay Missionary Samano to whore around in Italy? We pay GB5 to sing, while Isaac G rips off senior citizens? We pay Pacheco who then recruits a convicted felon to scam more members?
If we are going to use Scripture to entice people to give, then we had very well honor the biblical purpose of the tithes and offerings.
Good job!! Henry.
Hallelujah Anyhow said...
"Even if you aren't in the AA, don't you think your local church needs the tithing?.................................... We expect the church to offer all of the amenities and programs but without money it can't survive.............."
**********************************
Called2proclaim:
You have to understand that we dont GO to church WE ARE THE CHURCH but its these buildings and organizations that have formed a GOVERMENT set of rules that has CORRUPTED we the CHURCH into thinking that we are under there RULES and REGULATIONS and at times we leave his word aside..you said..
"Our sanctuary, safe place, the place we run to in times of trouble suffers when people don't give.".....
called2proclaim:
Let me correct u its not
"Our sanctuary, safe place, the place we run to in times of trouble suffers"...
ITS the PEOPLE of GOD that SUFFER...
A chisme on TITHING....
Abel Aguilar's method in getting people to tithe was to lecture the congregation about how he would NEVER EVER ride in the same car with someone who does not tithe. Why? Because God's protection is not upon them.
You've got to be kidding me!
Look Apostolicos.
The church must be inspired to give. Not threatened, coerced, or compelled. The greatest inspiration is when you see your money glorifying God. (Sola Dei Gloria)
Hector:
Did Aguilar really say that?
If he did, would he ever ride in the same car as an Adultress? Or does God only un-protect non-tithers and protect those committing, I don't know, say adultuery?
amen sola...
i once heard a pastor (several times) talk about why people are not healed or sickly is because they are not "faithful". dont get me wrong because i do tithe, it is my conviction and belief of biblical principles however it is not feesible for EVERYONE to give equally - for the widow, it may not be her pension she tithes but she may decide to feed another family for a period of time or knit some blankets for the children or homeless and give monetary substance to the church as she is able. But according to several preachings i've heard, her "arthiritis is an effect of her not paying her $80.03 per month (10%)". that is just WACK and WRONG.
Sola, great posts.
Giving is not to be forced because it then becomes work based and not faith based. This is in no way saying that we are not to give (because many use this excuse). But we are to give cheerfully, regularly and sacrificially. To a college student $20 may be all he can give (sacrifice his late night $1 menu purchases) but to a full time employee that makes much more money, that is not even close to what he can give sacrificially. Let us all examine our hearts before giving and then let us give unto the glory of God.
Grace to you.
2 Corinthians 9:6-8
Henry,
Yes, Aguilar would say that all the time. I've heard him myself. The Aguilar's have really strange and unusual tactics in getting you to do what they want you to do.
Many times Jason Aguilar or Jeff Aguilar would accuse you of having demons. If you had a habit of skipping choir because of conflicting school schedules, and you just couldn't manage to change your school schedule - well, you had demons.
Why does the Apostolic Assembly have to force its members to give? Because its members are uncheerful. If you produce a cheerful member, you will produce the output.
i see how this blog is, boring, now we have to talk about tithing.... just gossip now.
I thought it was about the R4J
so what happened to the REV!!!
Henry:
dont you know brah -
fornication stops being preached behind a pulpit, the moment the pastors kids hit their wild teen years and "got caught"!
Adultery stops being preached behing a pulpit when them same kids are in their mid 20's early 30's and "got caught" AGAIN! yet it's all a big mystery to the congregation that was beat over the head with it prior to. Take it from me public humiliation was my pastors joy until Jr got caught with his pants down -literally!!!
the more I chat with others of my era (mid 30's)that is the same story in pretty much every church. Its sad because they've pretty much enabled their own kids to get away with it. and you know they tend to "throw them back on the horse" aka MINISTRY to prevent them from "straying away" or "backsliding" "The devil cant have my child"!!! (Too LATE?!?) yet, I couldnt even TALK to the bros. after service for 2 years??? no functions, no singing in choir, no basketball tournaments!? EXPLAIN THAT ONE TO ME!
I guess this topic hit a sore spot for me.
GQ1973 said...
i see how this blog is, boring, now we have to talk about tithing.... just gossip now.
I thought it was about the R4J
so what happened to the REV!!!
...................................
called2proclaim:
this is part of the revolution..WHY? bcuz we are going back to the DOCTRINE of the apostles..study GRACE....and COVENANTS..
by the way, concerned, YES, it is wacked, but remember that just like Jesus saw the widow as giving a bigger offering than all present, he still sees us and with what attitude, and how much is worth in 'GOD DOLLARS'(if we can make that remark)
Fornication isn't as big a sin as not-tithing.
Paying a little extra diezmos can buy a lot of forgiveness of sins.
Ugh, fornication, adultury. Are they the only sins in the bible? Or are they the only ones harped on the most? I guess you can say they are the sexiest sins to preach about. Sex does sell. Not much preaching about Greed and Gluttony.
check out the beginning of the blogs, it was never about Doctrine, it was about the 2006 Elections!
To the imposter factonly1,
Thank you for informing me of Baldeliar leaving in 2002, but if Mr. Ruff was released in 2003 when did the General Board have their secret meeting or meeting to release Mr. Ruff. Mr. Ruff is under the impression Baldeliar had something to do with that. For those of you who are his dedicated followers, have you asked him what was his responsibility in all of this?
When was Solomentirars released? Since he was in charge of Social assistance at one time, I wonder why he did not make a righteous stand.
As far as me needing rightguard, you are right but my smell should be something you can handle. After all your mom (aka Sister Sewer Samon) was about as smelly as they come. Besides having ten step dads, were you able to find out who your biological father is. (lol)
thank goodness R$J is going back to the Doctrine! Maybe the courts will start going their way this time.
Concerned
What you mentioned is correct! They place members in discipline(sit in t/last bench for 2 yrs) until it happens to t/child or relative .
Then they change their discipline process. They place them in discipline for two months or two weeks!
But, you also find out who your REAL FRIENDS ARE!!!!
IF YOU DONT WANT THE GB victor, valverde, pachecho..etc.. to be the heads...
STOP tithing 10% and their will no lomger be a GB...
what will happen if all churches decided not to TITHE??????????DONY say they will be cursed or the blessings of god will not fall bcuz that is false teachimg....we are under grace...GOD is AGAPE with no limitation...
Henry & Hector
You guys are right . We had someone in our church that thought if we were ill, we had demons also!
Then my question is how does Abel Aguilar get's together iwith his Family ? Does he send the limo to his daughter?
what's up people I'm back let me read up.
Does any one know of a good church in San Bdno area?
Henry or Skotty(our 60 min. correp)
(Tafoya)
Has he realeased a statement (letter) yet?
ALERT**ALERT**
The word is that the General Board is in my city of El Paso and they are going to remove a Pastor. Not sure if this is related to the elections..can someone confirm?
every pastor I know pulls that same tactic off.
while his kids are young, all the jovenes get stoned, on prueba, and ex-communicated, and guilt-ridden.
As his kids age, he tends to become more liberal and enlightened.. lol
I thnk God my parents were able to see through that farce, and make for certain we did not grow up under such guilt or tyranny.
they allowed us to grow up.. if we fell they picked us up... if we stimbled they'd give us support, but never did they make it an issue of not being in God's grace.
Sadly enuff, many of the people I grew up with, their parents drank the cool-aide, and would only extend the beatings from the pastor, at home.
Oh now my ex-pastor has a gay son, and a loser mid 20 year old living at home, with no drive, or goals.
Thats called KARMA!
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