So the Revolutionaries for Justice want to come with video camera's in hand and try to affect change?
Have you not seen the Rodney King Video? It doesn't matter what the video shows, they were found not guilty.
Do you realize that a very well respected group of pastors just tried to sue our Beloved Assembly and ended up losing their churches. You think our leaders are going to listen to a few foul mouthed, name calling, disrespectful noobs? I think not! You must realize one thing; the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus, Inc.(Texas and California) has the legal system behind them.
You can't fight City Hall. I am surprised they sued. I am surprised that some of these pastors are apologizing. "I'm sorry for pointing out how the AA and its constituents were defrauded from a fair election, can I have my church back"? But I do understand why they are apologizing: It is their livelihood at stake. That is very unfortunate because most of these pastors have nothing else to fall back on.
I did read Sister Rita Solomon's letter over on AA.info. She is very well respected, intelligent and well spoken. She articulated very well her feelings and emotions through her ordeal. The anxiety, the unknowing, the embarrassment, the humiliation, the frustration of trying to do what was right and being told you where wrong, the lack of clarity as to what the future holds, being called rebellious. As Bill Clinton said, "I feel your pain".
Now you know what countless other pastors wives, who where excommunicated and removed while your husband was on the General Board and stood their and said nothing, feels like. Welcome to the real world. And I do say that with the utmost respect and admiration for you and your husband's ministry...but it had to be said. This type of politics has been bred in our Assembly, many generations have been through this. You held the reigns and did nothing to change this, not only did you do nothing to change this, you fostered this corruption. You lived high of the hog and now the hog has turned and kicked you out of the pen.
You are free now, there is no need to come back. What are you going to come back to? Its easier to see how dirty things are when your not rolling around in it. Run free and be clean no one can hold property over your head anymore. All the other pastors are held hostage by their properties. John 8:32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. The truth is that Jesus did not intend for pastors to be slaves to an organization. An organization that can do what it wants, when it wants to whom in wants in the name of Jesus. Pastor's do not realize that they are held captive because of the structure of the AA. It controls the property therefore holds captive its pastors. I may not be Bible scholar but I don't think this is what God intended. It breeds corruption, pride of the flesh.
Back to the Revolutionaries...
If you want to really affect change, you must change from within. Lose the slang, lose the hostility, put on a tie and a suit and STUDY TO SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED. Speak clearly, assertively and with the peace and kindness of Christ. You must grow into a position of respect and admiration, then...when you hold the reigns, you must not let the power go to your head. You must be a giver, not selfish and look out for future generations of Latino's across this country. Not you and your children's fancy houses and cars. This is how we must build wealth, by effecting the lives of others beyond your site and reach. YOU MUST AFFECT THE EFFECT!(That is for Freddie Jose, some of the old timers will understand the FJ reference). It will take time, be steadfast.
I am afraid if you don't, this may be the beginning of the end of our beloved social.
Apostolic Voice
BlogMaster Extraordinaire
ps.
For our revolutionaries....
4,282 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 2201 – 2400 of 4282 Newer› Newest»Germain,
Are the docs(trial date) on the aa.info?
ok so i dont get it...
iwillshowyouskotty sent me this
"Hey La Quinta....you got to admit, many people believed our supposed "investigation"...but don't mind us we're just "dreamers trying to live the dream"... "
??
II,
After putting much thought on my statement(For one, because the statement you made about the GB hurting for $$$ because churches are not cooperating, is not true. I know this to be false from one of the infamous 8 who said quite the opposite.), I do retract it. I could see how this person would mislead me to make the GB look like they are okay, especially because I am so vocal about my position on this matter. I have seen the stress that this has created for him personally. I can safely assume that the others are feeling the same.
I also agree with you that if this is the TRUE Germain he would be at the unemployment office hoping to pick up a check.
Skotty,
Thanks for posting Art Tafoya's letters. After I re-read them again, it seriously made me sick! The proudfulness that is in them to think nothing happened. We all must be ignorant then? The ignorant immigrants that they were referring to (AA vs. Mendoza) are in their board. How sick of them to take such a prideful position and feel so "disrespected" because they are being questioned? Since when did this organization turn into the Catholic Church and the POPE (Daniel Sanchez) must be revered so highly. And what is this "Honorable" for peets sake not even Jesus was referred to as the Honorable Jesus. Even as Lord and King He was humble and meek. But He (Jesus) never demanded this type of language in reference to him. He, fortunately for us, understood that the Gospel is not about power, money, position or title. But about the glory of God and His glory alone. Soli Deo Gloria!
Amen!!!!
John Knox,
couldnt have said it better myself
Honorable means to be made worthy of honor.
The AA is by force of habit, mentally and spiritual bowed to the General Board. Whether you despise the AA or love it. The church is the base on which this pinnacle rests, and resting atop the pinnacle is only a handful of men called the GB. And whoever makes it atop the pinnacle by ANY means, is deemed worthy of honor, position, and power.
The AA is bowed and has been bowed to the wrong thing. And now, the results are evident.
Anyword onBarrientos case, any one from Imperial Valley in thi blog?...
If any one from ImperialValley in this blog but you are kind of scare to write here well e mail me I want some info. On Sanchez family' this man needs to be shown his true colors I know for a fact this is not the only time he has been unfair to pastors or ministers, I have been working on Dan Sanchez and tust me when all this is over he will resign on his own prabablyylly all his teacher want a be brother as well....JUST REMEMBER SANCHES
My e mail is first.son88@yahoo.com
A todos los Obispos, Ancianos, Pastores y al pueblo de Dios en general.
Saludos en el Nombre de nuestro Señor y de Su Cristo.
Es con mucho dolor que me despido de la Asamblea Apostólica de la Fe en Cristo Jesús, Inc. Dejo no un legado grande ni impresionante pero dejo la única organización que conozco. En ella fui dedicado de niño, fui formado, instruido, casado y recibí mi confirmación de ministerio al cual Dios me llamó.
Quiero agradecer primeramente a mis padres que ellos me dejaron este legado apostólico y el amor por al pueblo de Dios. A mi padre, Prudencio B. Campos le agradezco porque en el vi el amor a Dios en su compromiso a Él, el amor a las almas y el valor de ponerse a frente de las autoridades en tiempos de injusticia y retarlos con respeto y firmeza. A mi madre, Teresa Y. Campos que siempre me enseño el arduo e incansable trabajo en la obra de Dios. Gracias por todo, los amo mucho. Segundo al Pastor Josué Cristóbal quien se arriesgo al iniciarme y ordenarme al ministerio, gracias. A los hombres que han sido mis pastores en el ministerio, al Pastor Abel V. Jiménez y el Pastor Phil Sáenz gracias por su apoyo y palabras de aliento en tiempos dificultosos. También al Obispo Joel Montes por aceptar y a la misma vez atreverse dejarnos pastorear la iglesia en Victoria, Texas. Por ultimo, a todos los obispos, pastores, lideres de diferente niveles de sociedades, por habernos permitido ministrar en sus distritos, iglesias y eventos especiales.
No dejo el ministerio que Dios me a encomendado a mi responsabilidad, solamente dejo la organización. De pronto recibirán, como dijo alguien la carta famosa por parte de las Oficinas Generales, que no se me invite a predicar en sus pulpitos y tratar de desacreditar el ministerio que Dios a dado. A los que me presentaban como amigo de ellos y de la congregación se que no cambiaran conmigo, bueno los que son amigos relacionales y no organizacionales.
Se que para algunos solamente era un “evangelista” y que no va hacer tan impactante me salida como otros ya que no dejo edificio, propiedad ni cuenta bancaria pero necesito ser verdadero con mi mismo y mi familia. Yo rehusó crear a mis tres hijos en un sistema que controla e intimide a los siervos de Dios, un sistema que nadie beneficia de ella solamente los de arriba y los que trabajan arduamente son pisoteados. En este sistema la voz de los pastores es callada aunque ellos son los que financian la organización. Se les dice que ellos son la “Asamblea” pero se burlan de ellos constantemente, los engañan y no les dan toda la información necesaria y los quieren entretener con cualquier dulce en la boca. Un sistema donde las congregaciones grandes se despiden y se haga nada para retenerlas y tomar un actitud de “si no son con nosotros, no eran de nosotros” que mentalidad tan pésima, mediocre e ignorante.
Mi relación con Dios y mi búsqueda a la Verdad me a llevado a esta decisión. Una vez mas no dejo el ministerio solamente la organización. Hermanos, si tienen alguna pregunta no duden en comunicarse a: mincampos@yahoo.com o 951/801-1282.
Rogamos las oraciones por mi esposa Ruth, nuestros tres hijos Isaiah, Gabriel, Nathan y por su servidor y a la misma vez estaremos orando por ustedes.
Por el Avance del Reino de Dios,
Juan Campos
How about an English version?
Two vote: This is Juan Campos' resignation letter the English version can be found @ apostolic letters.
To the bloggers:
If you know any questionable practices by the AA as mentioned below, please post either here or at the apostolicassembly.info
We need documentation, please.
This is only for serious legal matters.
More information is needed on things that have been posted here.
***We Care Program***
***Pastor's Life Insurance Policies***
***Social Assistance Program***
***AC Nava Foundation***
***Expense Accounts***
***Time Shares***
These are being forwarded to several federal and state government agencies.
Please help us in bringing this information to light.
Attorney General
verify your comments,
TO:
Thought for the day:
Please give more info on A.Meza.
I have not written anything for a while because I've been speechless. I can't believe what our leaders have been up too.
All the preaching that they have done to make me feel bad about myself, and I took it because I honestly believed they were God"s anointed.
Now I found out the only anointed thing around that is being anointed is their pockets.
Hopefully someone with the right knowledge can audit or bring in an investigation to investigate the dishonorable general board. All the special love offerings that are not being reported to the IRS.
You would expect your leaders to be a little better then you so you can look up to them, but with this rats you have to look really down to the cess pool of muck.
I hate to be them when out Lord God gets fed up with all their crap, and lowers the boom on them. They have a lot of answering to do.
If Sanchez really claimed to have the balls to do what he did, the time will come when the Lord will come and castrate him.
The rest of the dishonorable will follow suit close behind, in disgrace.
Quote
this blog is full of GARBAGE and comments that hurt many bloggers nothing can be proven everything is anonymous nice way to hide from everyone.
for the Kingdom
Okay, so just to be sure I checked your profile and SURE ENOUGH you too are anonymous. Welcome. Way to go, hide away in your cubby hole at the gb offices.
what do u gain from outright confronation?
unless a true, open, and honest dialogue is wanted, there is no point to "confront".
confrontation itself is not the answer, they will not listen, they will not accpt, and they will only condemn you.
when the other party refuses to listen, stop talking to them, and simply walk away. quit wasting your time in "their" AA.
attorney general said...
To the bloggers:
If you know any questionable practices by the AA as mentioned below, please post either here or at the apostolicassembly.info
We need documentation, please.
This is only for serious legal matters.
................................
HERE is another FRAUD and its another way to get into peoples pockets.....
CBAN someone study and do research on CBAN....are the allowed to do this....charge money to the people to learn of Gods word when we are a non profit organization???....what are the doing with all the CBAN money?????
Are they reporting all this to the IRS is the AA allowed to run sch program that charges people 100 dollars monthely from each student???????I dont think so...this is A NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION not A BUISNESs!!!!!
atorney general:
Skotty:
Henry:
Chairman:
Accion:
HERE is another FRAUD and its another way to get into peoples WALLETS.....
CBAN someone study and do research on CBAN....are they the GB allowed to do this....charge money to the people to learn of Gods word when we are a non profit organization???....what are they doing with all the CBAN money?????
Are they reporting all this to the IRS?????
Is the AA allowed to run a program that charges people 100$ dollars monthly from each student???????I dont think so...this is A NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION not A BUISNESs!!!!!
some one please respond...Atorney General here is another program that should be added to the list of FRAUDS the AA is running...
called2proclaim...
hahaha.. comon take it serious.. lol
i think you have a better case going after the burrito and tamale sales.. lol
hiring all those undocumented workers.. lol
just for clarification... not-for-profits can charge money, collect funds, and... make a profit... go figure.. lol
ur right Chairman..
but this is a non profit that has turned into a BUISNESS.....
Also are they even reporting their earnings they recieve from CBAN to the IRS?????
CBAN is a FRAUD any more comments..
its really a fraud.. cuz its not really a college... not very biblical... apostolic (nuff said).. and well the fraud is happening on a national level..
ok 1 out of 4... yup i;d call the better business bureau...
i'm just teasing.. having some light hearted fun with the issue.. :)
CBAN makes La Puente Bible School look like Fuller.
The Appeal:
Appellant's Opening Brief
"for the kingdom said...
accion you voice your opinions very strong but you are spineless and a loser why dont you make and appt. with the Pres. and tell it to him face to face you cant because you are a coward"
See if you can make an appt with El Presidente?
I'm sure over half of the people in here would want you to make an appt with Sancho since you are close to the dgb.
Set one up . See if he has the B_ _ _s to keep one.
Wow some of you guys are just ridiculous. You make AA and Gb look so evil. Where were you guys before all this? No one was "standing up" or anything before the 06' elections. now something youdont like happens and all of a sudden The Assembly we have all loved and been with for however long is the enemy and they need to be stopped? everyone just needs to stop and took a good look at all of this. Some members were not eligable for the position. i dont care if they didnt enforce the rules at all before these elections; they are now and that is it. It says in Ephesians(not sure exactly where right now) NOT TO SUE YOUR BROTHERS! was there not another way to face this situation? What do expect the Assembly to do when all of a sudden they are threatened with lawsuits just because they are enforcing the rules? most of you will be thick headed and take nothing i say into consideration but its worth a try
God Bless you all
wow!!!!!!
Regarding the Cban posts I happen to some fine young men that have gone through there. I knew them before they went in and after they came out.
What a difference preparation makes.
My question is how are the expenses for books, building, teachers and other related expenses to CBAN paid.
You guys are smart but not intelligent. Why don't you guys do some first hand investigation with documents to prove what you say about fraud and deceipt and then we will all join you in your bashing. Other then that you are just hot air wanting attention.
To: Thought for the Day
Please tell us about Richard Maffey (Buffet) and anyone else you know about.
Sure does say in the bible not to sue your bro.
But I think somewhere in there too is a part where Bishops and Pastors are suppose care for the sheep and love them not defraud them for your own gain.
Also says that our leaders are suppose to come as servents not lords.
This board has come as Lords and sat down on the throne and said serve us, and have told the general members if they don't like to get the flock out
When I sit on the throne, it's only for one of two things. . .And those two things are what the DGB is doing to all of it's members!!!
"AA DEVILS rule because we let them"
Abel Artie
Daniel Eddie Victor Ismael Leobardo Sam
GNB - Isaiah 36:12 . . . "Do you think you and the king are the only ones the emperor sent me to say all these things to? No, I am also talking to the people who are sitting on the wall, who will have to eat their excrement and drink their urine, just as you will."
BeanDip
Re: sueing
Go to aa.info.com look for a letter by Saul Avila.
For the Kingdom
You said "nice way to hide from everyone"
Why don't send them an email requesting the(General Treasurer Leobardo Maffey) treasury report for last year , including the gb's salaries & see for YOURSELF who's really HIDING!!
attorney general
I need CA's Email(att.g.) or an address.
We need more information with regards to:
We care program
Pastor's Life policy
AC Nava foundation
Salary issues
Expense account
Time shares
The issue with CBAN is not going to go anywhere. Unfortunately there is not much you can do about that issue. It would be a civil matter rather than a criminal issue.
To: Thought for the day,
Can you tell us about Rachel Valverde?
Do you know what happened with Jim Mena, brother-in-law of Sam Valverde?
I understand they don't speak to each other anymore.
We Care We Share Program
Get Ahold Of The Hermana From The District, THE ONE THAT IS IN CHARGE OF THE WE CARE WE SHARE PROGRAM IN THE DISTRICT...
According To Her. Lugo HAS taken out ALL THE MONEY ... considering it has nothing to do with the church,AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NAVA FOUNDATION... WHY IS HE DOING THAT?... and its basically a group of older hermanas...
Stealing from them IS considered ELDERLY ABUSE... NOT JUST FRAUD.
LUGO .. WHY IS UR HAND IN THEIR COOKIE JAR????
-SKOTTY
Regarding Richard Buffet,
This was back in the mid 80's, Delfina was accusing Richard of having an affair with is secretary.
P.S. Richard I know you read the blog. Don't worry I wouldnt tell EVERYTHING I know. "By this time you cute chubby cheeks must be red.
Ewwweee, major gross. In the 80's Abel Duarte was MOP Sectretery.
wow!!!!!!!!!!
ALERT ALERT... people!!!
be warned...ATTORNEY GENERAL... COULD POSSIBLY BE A MEMBER OF THE GB...
MAIN GOAL.. TO FIND OUT WHAT PEOPLE KNOW SO THEY CAN BEEF UP THEIR DEFENSE TEAM!
I POSTED ABOUT LUGO AND THE WE SHARE WE CARE PROGRAM
SIMPLY TO WARN HIM THAT HE HAS INDEED BEEN CAUGHT!
LUGO ... YOUR TIME WILL COME
THOSE BENEATH YOU WILL SOON QUESTION YOUR TACTICS AND ACTIONS...
WHY WOULD YOU TAKE MONEY FROM THE ELDERLY???
LUGO ...
YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT!!!!
LUGO... PUT THE MONEY BACK plus INTEREST!!!
LUGO... END THIS NOW...
LUGO... R YOU STILL READING THIS?
LUGO... ITS POINTLESS NOW...
LUGO... HAHA
LUGO... WHY?
LUGO... WHY NOT ANSWER ME?
LUGO... JUST PUT THE MONEY BACK... PLUS INTEREST!
LUGO.. YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT AND EXPOSED!
TO ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE
WE CARE WE SHARE PROGRAM
LUGO HAS TAKEN OUT THE MONEY FROM YOUR FUND!
THE MONEY THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHURCH... IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THE CHURCHES MONEY!!! WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS (LUGO) TO TAKE THAT MONEY???
LUGO... DID YOU THINK YOUR WITHDRAWL WOULD GO UNNOTICED...
IM EVERYWHERE DUDE!
-SKOTTY
WWWOOOOOOO another hit by SKOTTY...keep it up team these crooks are going down one by one...
I don"t think honorable sister Delfina Maffey had a lot to say against her husband, she was't the best of all.
Just like Angie Nomeli now
Angie Mascareño they both hanged out together always competing who got the best guys.
Skotty
What's your email address?
To: Skotty and everyone else on this blog.
I am not a GB member. I am on the side of justice. I am completely against what happened in the 2006 elections.
There are several government investigations that may be openned up real soon.
A GB member would never encourage you, the AA members, Pastors to post here any dirt on them.
There are things in the works and we need to know if there are any witnesses, especially pastors who would come forth.
Blogger attorney general
Have you read the brief, whats your opinion.
DEJA MOO....
the feeling that I've heard this bull before.
lol lol lol
and skotty thanks for the Tafoya's letters.
sounds like he should be the one given credit for being the whistle blower.
just saying
Bishop Richard Maffey was the best president of the mop ever, in the history of the apostolic movement.
Attorney General
Do you have an email address or contact phone number we can get ahold of you at?
I am factsonly1 the "imposter"
My Email Is
skottywillshowu@gmail.com
BTW FEEL FREE TO EMAIL ME ABOUT NE WRONG DOINGS OF THE gb... I WILL TAKE THE INFO STRAIGHT TO THE PLAINTIFFS, AND THEIR ATTORNEYS...
I THINK ITS ABOUT TIME WE BEEF UP THE PROSECUTION!!!
YOU ALL KNOW WHAT SIDE IM ON...
SO FEEL FREE TO SHARE WITH ME.
-SKOTTY
Richard Maffey was the biggest not the best nor the brightest
If he was, how come there is such an uproar in the MOP today? Why were drug/alcohol parties by youth going on during the convention. While Maffey was giving his "speech", his MOP were partying the night away.
SEE ONCE AGAIN.. OUR gb MONITOR...
FACTSONLY1
GETS ON, READS, SIDES WITH PLAINTIFFS, THEN FIGHTS WITH HIMSELF...
AND THEN HE STATES THAT R4J HAS DIRTY TACTICS...
FACTSONLY1 Your starting to slip up bro...
claim jesus. bro... do it and leave the gb.
wow!!!!!!!!
John Knox said...
Germain,
I don't believe this is THE Germain that works as an accountant for the AA Headquarters. For one, because the statement you made about the GB hurting for $$$ because churches are not cooperating, is not true. I know this to be false from one of the infamous 8 who said quite the opposite. Secondly, He just wouldn't be on here.
You have some good insight never the less, so please continue posting.
I too, feel "Germain" does not work for the G. Offices because of the statement that you were about to give a check to a GB member; well with that statement you would have breached confidentiality of your client's information. You will lose your job and go to jail for that.
So, nope you don't work for them. We all know that the GB does read this blog, or so everyone thinks so. that being said, "germain" would have been discovered already just by having post about giving a check to a GB member.
I wonder if it is an imposter making up figures and what not. \
Like truth said, we need evidence, otherwise (hard evidence), not just hearsay
And yes we are all painfully aware that our GB members make more money than the Pres. of the US.
John Knox said...
Who will be attending the summit in Denver?
Will this new association drop much (if any) of the old polity that is seen in the AA?
Unfortanetly, the AA does not understand most of the surroundings that we place our churches and therefore start churches that are disconnected from our local communities, cities and context. Any thoughts on this?
September 4, 2008 1:37 PM
now I would like to know, why on earth you would join another baby organization (which by many on this blog have said is not even biblical-- it is man made)?????
and how is this organization(aka: association) going to be ran. Who will be the top dog, and how much money ( cause this is what is all about) will top chief make, are there going to be offering and tithing (many on this blog have said to stop tithing cause it was never intended for us anyways, to stop giving offerings in order to kill the GB). So again, in this new "association" will you tithe and give special offerings? who will keep up the books? are the special offerings(love offerings) going to be disclosed to the IRS? will they invite their Pastors to have access to treasury reports? is there going to be a document to prevent fraud from happening? will the Pastors get all the tithes, or will they have a set salary?
i think it is just the same dog, with another new house!
the plaitiffs dont need any money, cause they are loaded, i think. no one seems to like to disclose those amounts, hmmmm, I wonder why???
so don't allow them to get a salary from the "association". they should have enough with their Pastoral salaries. otherwise, the "association" will end up in the same situation we are in right now.
by the way, it does not take a genius to figure it out.($$$$$$+position)
gg1973
If you want to find out how the new association will be run, why don't you go to the summit and find out first hand then you make a better judgment as to how its going to be run. You may like it and join.
gg1973
"I think" is just your personal opinion that does not provide facts.
Facts, actual facts can change minds.
gq1073
If the press can published the tbn's salaries & such as Pastor Dollar, Joel O. ....
The aa is a non-profit how come they can't published the gb salaries?
i promise I will shut up after this,
everyone talks about 2 votes or 3 votes. I thought the tallies were computerized, and according to the Tafoya letters:
A. Article 4
Clause II-
First, the Electoral Committee did not preside over the entire electoral process as cited in this clause. There were General Office Administrators who were in charge of the last portion of the electoral process for each position.
Secondly, the results of the questioned elections were not delivered to the incumbent General Board of Directors, especially the Bishop General Secretary
(the secret keeper and official archive keeper of legal proceedings such as these).
Per the admission of one of the Qualifying Board members (Midwest District Bishop Celestino Guzmán, of Waukegan, Illinois), he was instructed to be the custodian of the results (votes, tally sheets and computers results, etc.). These
results were/are under his custody outside of the confines of the General Offices where the official documentation of the organization is to be kept.
No where in our Constitution does it afford the privilege to any one for documentation of this nature to be taken outside of the providence of the official and legal corporate offices per our registration as a California corporation.
(pay close attention to the following)
Clause XII- At this point in the election process, an electronic touch pad was used to receive the votes from which the pastors cast (punched) their respective vote to
elect a candidate and tallied by a computer server. The touch pad computer results were not tallied by the Electoral Committee nor were they supervised by
the aforementioned committee. This particular aspect of the election tally was handled exclusively by the General Office Administrators, bypassing the Electoral Committee (who were formally approved and presented as such by the Honorable General Board as cited in Article 4 Clause II) who should have been overseeing this most important and final result of the election.
The Electoral Committee testifies that they had nothing to do with the final vote results; therefore, violating Article 4 Clause XII which states: “The electoral Committee will tally the votes (the computer tally/final result) and announce the results.
There was no Electoral Committee supervision present or around to verify legitimacy.
My question,
if there was no Electoral Committee supervision present or around to verify legitimacy, by Tafoya's own admission, how and what proof does the plaintiff's gunner Pastor Abel Torres have in order to say some only got 2 votes, if they were not even "present or around to verify legitimacy" and "Clause XII- At this point in the election process, an electronic touch pad was used to receive the votes from which the pastors cast (punched) their respective vote to elect a candidate and tallied by a computer server. The touch pad computer results were not tallied by the Electoral Committee nor were they supervised by
the aforementioned committee.?
or am I missing something?? (i know i am pushing on Pastor Abel crew's buttons, sorry, but I am just asking just like you are asking)
yes, i am in total agreement about the publishing of salaries to the churches.
the local churches pay their salaries, but just like in a company, they tell you to not talk about how much you get paid, or about any raises in salary, I think the GB is going that route.
we are not blind, we see it.
I would like to be part of a new organization because from what I can read it seems to be something that is going to be great. The only thing tha tis antibiblical is sorry to say but the way the whole organizations is. It is an organization with a whole bunch of never will be's hating on those that have made a great difference. Hating on those that God has blessed. They are judgemental and big backstabbers. They sounds like the pharises of our times. Then they profess to be great. They are the man made religion because I hear even catholics used to were viels sounds like the current organization. AAFJC So easy even a cave man can do it.
To Skotty:
Every thing about you is dirty tactics!
You are a liar! You well know you have a rev. of injustice (impostor)posting as factsonly1 to discredit me. Dirty tactics in the Zuniga video (a lot of lies), dirty tactics in the S.B. video (a lot of lies). Any pastor who associates with you looses all respect for himself and is worthy of pity to have fallen so low as to associate with a carnal, lying, slanderer, ect. person like you.
To Skotty:
Every thing about ME is dirty tactics!
I am a liar! I well know I am a rev. of injustice (impostor)posting as factsonly1 to credit me. Dirty tactics in the Rodriguez video (a lot of lies), dirty tactics in the FOT video (a lot of love). Any pastor who associates with me looses all respect for me and is worthy of pity to have fallen so low as to associate with a carnal, lying, slanderer, ect. person like me.
Pendejo!!
Something that makes me go hmmmm . . .
The New Apostolic Summit is going to be ran by a former Corrupt Board member. . hmmmm
Two of the plaintiffs on the law suit were part of the former Corrupt Board as well. . .hmmmm
If so much corruption has been going on for years and it did not start with the current GB, why have the former GB members ... aaahemm Solomon and Baldemar... not come clean with their own wrong doings ... hmmmm
Okay seeker I will bite. Let’s see they are maybe correcting their errors him as opposed to being led by a president that allowed his family off the hook not once but several times. Maybe like the way a certain brother was transferred out of certain state as soon as he committed a crime of in indecent nature. HMMM or Trying to correct what the past leader ship started a spirit of corruption I do not know Let ME weigh it out. Which is wrong following whole bunch corrupt officials or those that are trying to correct? I do not know which is more biblical. Epiphany the ones that are trying to correct.
From what I hear Torres was counting the votes and please do not say it is hear say because many of you are committing the same foul as I have just done.
According to my sources the GB members are really worry about their image , especially the comments made in this blog. They promise last week to discredit any report given in this site,please be aware.
I am sorry to say but are they going to kick me out of the assembly. It would be to hard because I Have been out for 23 years.
To Lehan:
You must be a disgruntled ex AA member. 23 years out and still can't let go of our Assemlby? What business do you have, criticizing our Assembly. What church do you belong too?
To Impostor:
Well, well, well,
True colors coming out huh? Do you praise God with that mouth Skotty. Are all revs of injustice as foul mouths as you or more profane than you.
Keep going so bloggers can continue to see your carnality!
lehan
like adultery
indecent nature
we know, it no secret
As a saying once goes facts only if the show fits... Well does it? It would have been nice just to be a member. See facts if you had the spirit of God as many of you profess to have you would have not even reacted.. I am Non -denominationl and proud of it baby. Even if I am a member here I love my Pastor and the Ministers and I know God has great things instore for each one of them. It is funny to listen to you all. I still have family there in the organization. Anything else you would like to say facts only. Why are you telling me not to judge are you not doing the same thing by calling me an X AA MEMBER. And trying to figure out what church I go to just so you can discredit and please do not tell me that is not what you are going to do once you see this message. You are just made because their is nothing in your or the GB power to destroy me. Just they fact that you all try to discredit one another is antibiblical.
sorry one error instead of show I mean shoe
Accion
Are they going to send a puppet to my home? I'm not the one losing members here .($$$)
To leehan:
Let me get right. It's Ok for you to condemn our church and condemn our leaders with out facts but you're too afraid to mention what church you go too right?
Why don't you take the beam out of your eye so you can take the speckle of out of other people's eye.
Church has never been about the $$$$. Its about the true doctrine of the aposles.
I am who I am. I am not an imposter. Whom do you say I am? I am the one and the only of whom I am. No matter who you say I am, I was, I am and I am always will be.
I heard it through the grapevine that Pastor Arreola was blessed with 230,000 dollars from the insurance for the fire that nearly burned down his church in the BOOM!! Town of Odessa, Texas. Does the GB know about this? BEWARE!!!
Leave Richard BUFFETalone, he once was a sinner but Jesus set him FREE!
And he also has an attitude and bad temper like his mom!
Too many tacos for the belly!
To Skotty:
Do you have the name of the sister who knows about the we care program.
I am not trying to lead you or her. I am truly trying to help. There are several people we are in touch with within the government who are ready to open up investigations.
But we need hard facts.
Sorry facts we are both condeming eachother I'll take out my beam when you take out yours.
Scratch that I am not condeming you I am just saying the Assembly is extremely dysfunctional.
California's prison guard union is seeking a re-call of Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. In the words of the union spokesman Lance Corcoran "we are going to move this as soon as possible" and "this is a governor that has been a complete failure." WHAT IS GOING ON IN CALIFORNIA???
Dude who cares about those low class law enforcement guys wanta be all they are is high pay babysiters.. Let's get back to busunes
I am not here to bash anyone...
so please read, and then respond if you have any knowledge of the subject.
Is this summit to beging/initiate a new organization?
And if so, why cover the subject matter that is being presented?
Something just doesn't seem to go together when you read the agenda. Just my opinion, ut it seems like the end of one religous organization, with the beginning of a second one with a slight name change. (always focusing on us, never on the harvest...)
what do i mean... which Apo hasn;t had conferences, classes, or lectures already on the planned subject matter. Apos tend to keep running around the same issues, never really accomplising anything.
again... just a question, only my first impression pointof view when i read the flyer...
feel free to opine.
I came across this article by brother Misael Zaragoza at inspiredchristian.org. The article contains fourteen CHURCH LEADERSHIP TRAITS. I noticed that the article is dated December 3, 2000. He obviously doesn’t believe that integrity is that important after all.
By Pastor MISAEL ZARAGOZA
Church Leadership Traits
1. Integrity: Our responsibility to God and the church is too high to gamble leadership on dishonest leaders. When you give your word, keep it, they are people depending on your integrity.
http://www.inspiredchristian.org/cyber/120400mz.html
By Mizael Zasagoza
CHURCH LEADERSHIP TRAITS
1. Integrity: Our responsibility to God and the church is too high to gamble leadership on dishonest leaders. When you give your word, keep it, they are people depending on your integrity. (his grammar not mine)
"...there are people depending on your integrity."
I agree pastor Zaragoza,
The Pastors of the Apostolic Assembly depended on the integrity of the GB to hold an honest election, espcially after they required pastors and ministers (many of them diabetic and sickly) to fast and pray and seek the Lord's guidance, not to mention sit down all day long, tired, hungry, and spent.
The church is now depending on the integrity of those involved directly or indirectly in the now infamous 2006 Elections to be honest and show integrity.
Just a thought
Chairman
My understanding is that these are the ousted or those who left willingly, ex-AA members who are uniting instead of everyone just going in every direction. Looks to me that they are addressing some issues that have been brought up on this blog even, such as the women's place in ministry, etc. It sounds to me like a good start. In any case what are these ex-AA members expected to do? I don't think they had issues with the AA beliefs. The issues were of the seemingly increasing corruption at headquarters and the fact that the gb does not seem to take even a half step in working towards a solution to this horrible sad mess whatsoever. I think they're off to a good start. I'm sure it won't be easy and it too may have its ups and downs, trials and tribulations, but I for one am praying that God may guide them as they go forward.
On another note, I am proud of those who have stood by their Pastors. I re-read the letter by young Bro. Carlos Alvarez and I have nothing but admiration for this young man of God whose words touched me as he wrote of the moments of distress which he lived as his church was locked up, "I stayed by my pastor’s side every moment I could. He is my mentor, father, friend and role model. I could not leave his side." What loyalty from one so young but who did not falter in his belief that his Pastor was done wrong by men's abuse of power, not by God or by God's will but by men who have let go of God's hand.
God bless the new organization.
Camindo,
Thank you for your response..
but you noted exactly what i think this summit should be about... if those hosting it were looking at the longterm success of this new organization
"issues were of the seemingly increasing corruption at headquarters and the fact that the gb does not seem to take even a half step in working towards a solution to this horrible sad mess whatsoever. "
why not deal with the administrative issues, the drafting of a solid, transparent, accountable to the people document/constitution?????? Why not discuss and draft by-laws, governing documents, and procedures that help curb incompetence, corruption, and nepotism??? all issues that plague the AA.
I know this may not sound to spiritual of subjects, but it was these secular (and secular is not a bad-word!!! lol) issues that are helping bring to light the nakedness of the AA's cloak of spiritualism.
In my opinion, i see a great danger in disregarding these issues, and returning to the same old well of spiritualism, and feel good subjects.
the place of w0men in ministry could be address in the founding documents, no reason to pray about it over and over anymore. call for quorum and put thoughts to paper, and finally draft a document that has long been needed.
i just again, see a repition of things that have taken place.
those who ignore history, tend to repeat it.
HAHAH fax...
ur craZY son!!!
i dont even understand what you were posting today...
LOL
I think you are the coward for not telling people who YOU ARE. or what church YOU ATTEN...FOT... lol
flora Azul!
LOl
you know i thought that was a womens thing... then they told me that it was a group in FOT...
LMBO!!!
hahahaha
so would you like to tell us the requirements to OBTAIN membership in the Flora AzuLS??
Praise the Lord Christ Bloggers!
Paz de Cristo Blogistas del Dios Todopoderoso!
Me gustaria que alguien me sace de una duda.
I would like clarification on an issue.
A legal one.
I paid a brief visit to Bishop Samuel Valverde's website, (fountainoftruth.com) and I noticed a little detail.
At the very bottom of the page reads the following:
"© 2008 Fountain of Truth Church | All Rights Reserved"
Who is Fountain of Truth Church that they may reserve rights and copyright them accordingly?
Are they a separate and sovereign entity? Only so can they do this.
There does exist another possibility. Perhaps, FOT uses the Apostolic Assembly articles of inc, but has filed for "DBA" with the county (aka A fictitious name statement) this permits an entity, corp or proprietor to use another name other than it's legal one. Hovever among county records, there is no records of the AACFJ having a trade name of "fountain of truth."
So why copyright anything under that name? Is this copyright valid? Could it be the FOT have given themselves away and revealed that they are indeed violating the constitution by operating under a different corp? One that they themselves made?
Les encomiendo esta tarea a ustedes, los jovenes. Yo estoy demasiado viejo, y ademas, tengo demasiado que perder. My opinion es que Valverde tiene otra corporacion. quizas Esta entitulado Fountain of truth. O quizas otro nombre, pero con un "DBA" de Fountain of Truth.
How can you find out? The simplest answer is sometimes the most effective. Follow the Money.
For example. If I write you a check, before you are able to deposit it or cash, you must first endorse the check. Most businesses have a stamp that features the name of the business(very important), the address and the words DEPOSIT ONLY. After the person or business has cashed the check, you receive in the mail a copy of the check, front and back. you may also view it online, if your bank permits. Wells Fargo will be fine. Examine the endorsement. That is your biggest clue, young people! Does it say ANYTHING other than APOSTOLIC ASSEMBLY OF THE FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS? What does it say? Why does it say that?
Le dejo con esto Jovenes, y solo con esto.
Dios les bendiga.
May God Bless you.
Praise the Lord!
Most recently I was informed by one of our youth that my name had appeared on this blog and I, in turn, decided to read said content. First, I want to congratulate those of you who continue to serve the Lord despite the difficult economic, social, and spiritual challenges we face. The purpose of this email is to respond to what has been stated in this blog. I did serve as National Youth President from 1984-1988 (two terms). Also, I served as National Bible Quiz Master from 1980-1982 & National Youth Secretary from 1982-1984. As regards the control of the "sound system"...this technical aspect of all four conferences under our administration was "contracted out" with a sound company based out of Los Angeles, CA--it was totally handled by private personnel. Allow me to stress that Bro. Ariel Meza has been a long time friend and collaborator in the ministry and I hold him in highest esteem and with utmost regard. To date I am an ordained minister with the Apostolic Assembly and I congregate in the church of National City under the direction of Pastor Misael Zaragoza. Thankfully, I remain extremely active ministering to our Messengers of Peace within the Southern California District. Yes, at one time I longed to be an attorney, however, the Lord took us in a different direction. I am currently employed as a Clinician with the University of California, San Diego. Additionally, I'm currently a PhD student in the Claremont Graduate University/SDSU Doctoral Program. In brief, I solicit your prayers and if I may be of any assistance I am available at the email listed below.
Your servant in the Lord's work. God Bless, Minister Rod Garcia Jr.
Direct email: rodgarciajr@yahoo.com
Thank you brother Rod!
We have enough tearing down of people.
I retract my previous post about anyone.
I apologize for my behavior. It is terrible to put stuff on this blog when in fact this is unbiblical.
Common people let's get back to the issues at hand, the 2006 elections.
ChairmanMao & Camino Voy
No, they have not form a new org. They are still going to court see previous blog page it has the link . I believe it's dated July '08.
***********NO han formado otra organizacion porque estan llendo a corte todavia. En la pagina previa esta el link para la apelacion.(64 paginas)
Camino Mao , the plaintiffs were trying to do that (modify ) the constitution but, they got lynched!
Everytime someone or church wants to speak up, they remove them .
*****Cuando un miembro hace (iglesia) preguntas, le quitan su ministerio.
About accountability it's a good point you made but, they (gb ) refuses to give accountability to anyone. Pastors & members are blind . THEY think that they don't have to question the authority. The MEMBERS are the ones who pay the mortgages, & the gb salaries!
****Mencionastes Contabilidad es una buen punto. Pero la meza directiva no quiere dar countabilidad. Ellos(m.d.) piensan que no tiene que darle Cuentas A NADIE! Los miembros son los que pagan los templos y Los SALARIOS !
Bro. Rod
NICE TO HEAR FROM YOU BROTHER!!!
The issue is not the election. The 2006 elections were a negative outcome from individuals that lost the true purpose of genuine Christianity. At some point the “corporation’ became more important that the “calling”. The “position” became more important that the “person”. The mission of Apostolic Assembly is no longer to reach the lost, it is to preserve the “organization”.
The tragedy of the 2006 elections’ exist because we changed the standard from Gods’ to “mans”.
Even if a new organization does evolve, chances are will carry over the same mentality. All we have done is created another “god” to raise in high places.
When we incorporated our own methods, we removed God as our authority and asserted our own autonomy.
Re: Barrientos Trial.
Verdict possibly by Friday afternoon.
What has been said about this new Association is true. In that, if the same narcissistic "Let's build our own kingdom" mentality persist then it will be only within time that the new Association will fall just as its predecessor. There must be a true and real review of their theology and understanding of what this Association can look like with Christ at its center. And I don't just mean that hypothetically speaking but how is this new Association built with the centrality of the Gospel at it's core. People and Organizations don't have pride/ego/control issues. They have Gospel issues. The Gospel must be central to their/our being and actions. When we understand the Gospel and the effect that it has on our works then our actions change and reflect Gospel based works and Christ is most glorified!
Why are some following Solomon and Baldemar when in the past they have been part of the corrupted board in their time!?
They have outspoken on issues they too were once involved and now… they are being looked upon as Heroes . . .
Why have they not tried to correct their wrong doings when they were in power? Why Now?
Now it seems they wish to take control of the new Association they want to create . . . Power hungry? Maybe?
Pastors that leave should focus on thier local church members and leading them all for the Glory of God and not look to put their faith in an organization!
John Knox:
That is the problem with some of us including myself. We assume how things might be done without listening to the other party on how the new system will run in this new alliance. Personally, I don't want to assume if I am interested I would rather go and sit there at the summit and listen to what they have to say without committing then decide if that is where I want to be.
I really hope and pray that this is part of God's plan to take us out of bondage. As the famous saying goes "I don't want to go from Guate-mala a Guate-peor."
There is to much control everyone wants to control one another. In the new fellowship I have heard they are going to incorporate the local churches. See the problem with the old one is no one ever wanted to do that for fear of losing dictorial control over all the Pastor's and the local churches. The only ones that would have a hard time with this is are those that do not want the organization to change. The only thing they want changed are the families in control. So with the incorporation of the local churches. That Same spirit that controls the current organization will not even be a factor in this new one. So before we say anything on here we need to get the facts straight and I am not talking about facts only.
Lehan & Remembering
I believe what they want is to give power to the local church. (governed locally )
*** lo que quieren is darle poder local mente. (que las iglesias se gobiernen local mente)
The idea of incorporating the individual church is to empower, if you will, the local church so that they can make their own decisions while staying in the Association if they continue to agree with the systems and/or doctrinal statements. One of the problems I can foresee is that if these old and new Pastors are not put through some sort of assessment to confirm their calling as Pastors/Elders and just continue to allow unqualified (see 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1) Pastors to start churches without the proper church ecclesiology. And I am not referring to qualified as in a secular degree, which is helpful but doesn't necessarily or at all confirm a calling to eldership. The power struggle will then move from the Association level to the church level and these churches will continue to have 1 dictator instead of a group of qualified men to lead as Pastors/Elders.
Thoughts anyone?
"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will."
-Yoda
chairman mao
i agree. the only thing that has changed is the name.
SEEKER said
Pastors that leave should focus on thier local church members and leading them all for the Glory of God and not look to put their faith in an organization! ...
THEY DIDNT LEAVE. THEY WERE BOOTED... BECAUSE THOSE IN POWER GOT RID OF THOSE THAT CHALLENGED THEM...
WHO's power hungry??
Btw aafjc isnt an organization right???
as i recall the police asked how to treat the situation in SB... the reply they got was "Treat it like a Business!"
-skotty
Seeker.. what EXACTLY are you seeking???
I think everyone needs to seek theological reform.
Explain it for us N.T.
iT SOUND TO ME LIKE GM JR IS AMONGST US.
Perhaps, I may do so, at a later date. For now, just keep it in mind.
There's no better time than the present
John Knox:
Your beginning to sound like a car salesman. I think that's when our common sense should come in just look at the AA system that didn't work and it will not work.
hard stuff
sadly it's all true
bro keep up the opposition
i'm tired that people just think you are a great christian becuase you have a title. thats sicko.
viva la revolucion homies!!!
seeker
Soloman was man enough to acknowledge his past as an authority yet humbled himself and accepted what was due him. He knew where he was situation he was going to wind up at and know they have taken the initiative to do something, prayerfully, better.
the greatness of freedom is that you have choices and Bishop Salomon and his team will have a new organization whether we approve of it or not. May the blessing be upon them.
this is supposed to be a christian blog and some of you need to clean your act up ! Making disrespectful comments of which u have no proof whatsoever.Makes me wonder if you even attend an apostolic church at all. by the way not from rancho and have no ties to the gb. if you have differences with the gb make an appt. with them im sure they will talk to you.What have they got to lose ( they have lost enough as it is )
Lehan...
I may have misread.. if i did.. i apologize..
but i dont think that the local incorporation is the most vital of issues. Yes it is an issue, and local incorporation is better than central control.
however my issue/concern was with the overall mindset and pettyness of concern.
it just seems like they have a very similiar mindest to the now corrupt and debunked AA.
again, yes this is a wide swipe, jsut based on the subject matter to be covered at this planned summit.
just seems other more important issues should/would have been covered if the people leading the new association were of a new and renewed mindest...
solo... and non... seem to be of the same concern as I.
cali_pete said...
gg1973
"I think" is just your personal opinion that does not provide facts.
Facts, actual facts can change minds.
September 8, 2008 11:52 AM
that is the problem, everyone is throwing numbers in here, but I don't see any evidence, except the Tafoya letters, some video links, and the info from the letters site.
let me narrow it down, "i think" another blogger said Pastor BR was president for about 17 years (multiply that by 15,000[just averaging] a month= a lot of cash my friends)
so how in the world did Pastor Salomon get loaded? anyone know? that's right, he was also part of the board, and we all know that the honest pastors, humble pastors are not here to get rich, they are here to serve.
and not one has answered:
A. Article 4
Clause II-
First, the Electoral Committee did not preside over the entire electoral process as cited in this clause. There were General Office Administrators who were in charge of the last portion of the electoral process for each position.
Secondly, the results of the questioned elections were not delivered to the incumbent General Board of Directors, especially the Bishop General Secretary
(the secret keeper and official archive keeper of legal proceedings such as these).
Per the admission of one of the Qualifying Board members (Midwest District Bishop Celestino Guzmán, of Waukegan, Illinois), he was instructed to be the custodian of the results (votes, tally sheets and computers results, etc.). These
results were/are under his custody outside of the confines of the General Offices where the official documentation of the organization is to be kept.
No where in our Constitution does it afford the privilege to any one for documentation of this nature to be taken outside of the providence of the official and legal corporate offices per our registration as a California corporation.
(pay close attention to the following)
Clause XII- At this point in the election process, an electronic touch pad was used to receive the votes from which the pastors cast (punched) their respective vote to
elect a candidate and tallied by a computer server. The touch pad computer results were not tallied by the Electoral Committee nor were they supervised by
the aforementioned committee. This particular aspect of the election tally was handled exclusively by the General Office Administrators, bypassing the Electoral Committee (who were formally approved and presented as such by the Honorable General Board as cited in Article 4 Clause II) who should have been overseeing this most important and final result of the election.
The Electoral Committee testifies that they had nothing to do with the final vote results; therefore, violating Article 4 Clause XII which states: “The electoral Committee will tally the votes (the computer tally/final result) and announce the results.
There was no Electoral Committee supervision present or around to verify legitimacy.
My question,
if there was no Electoral Committee supervision present or around to verify legitimacy, by Tafoya's own admission, how and what proof does the plaintiff's gunner Pastor Abel Torres have in order to say some only got 2 votes, if they were not even "present or around to verify legitimacy" and "Clause XII- At this point in the election process, an electronic touch pad was used to receive the votes from which the pastors cast (punched) their respective vote to elect a candidate and tallied by a computer server. The touch pad computer results were not tallied by the Electoral Committee nor were they supervised by
the aforementioned committee.????????
or am I missing something?? (i know i am pushing on Pastor Abel crew's buttons, sorry, but I am just asking just like you are asking)
September 8, 2008 12:12 PM
and for the insane person that said Sis Dalia was the best candidate to give the women in ministry talk, then bro or sis you really need to pray/fast and obviously you have no idea how she really is.
I would vote for someone else to do the women's speech. or is my vote not going to count?
another question is if so many Pastor (according to who knows who) are joining the New "Association" then why are the plaintiffs the only ones that are directing it. I figured other qualified candidates(Pastors), besides Zuniga, would be ideal to also lead some of the talks and doctrinal points.
don't get me wrong, but when I see Saul Avila - (the one who is trying to discover what happened before Gen 1:1 or as he called it "Genesis 0:0", and rants for about----forever and never getting to the point, then this says a lot of this new organization( oops "Association")
“THEY DIDNT LEAVE. THEY WERE BOOTED... BECAUSE THOSE IN POWER GOT RID OF THOSE THAT CHALLENGED THEM.. - Skotty
Zuniga and Campos left on their own, they were not booted out; So I stand by my statement. My advice was not for those who got “booted out”, it was for those contemplating to leave to join this so called Apostolic Association.
As for those who got booted out, they should focus on their local churches as well.
Btw aafjc isnt an organization right???
as i recall the police asked how to treat the situation in SB... the reply they got was "Treat it like a Business!" -Skotty
An Organization can be treated as Business, not sure what the problem was with this wording!
If Baldemar and Solomon have done wrong in the past, which I am sure they have stories to tell, they should be open about it if they have truly changed.
-Seeker
Lord have mercy!!
gq1973, for you to have claimed that you prayed for healing over this sister who went through cancer who you call Sister Dalia makes me wonder what you really must have prayed for. Was it "let her die Lord, let her die she deserves it?" WOW!! I sure hope not at least for your sake and your family. Whatsoever you wish for others you wish for yourself and that my friend is based on the bible.
Remembering,
Which point of my statement are you referring to?
I do understand that common sense is needed/required in establishing a healthy Association and/or church but there are other requirements that Pastors should fulfill before they are commissioned to start churches. These are things that common sense does not bring but rather the Holy Spirit in His constant work of sanctification.
*This comment is in no way meant to be read as a push back but rather a continuation for dialogue. I thought I should put a disclaimer since many seem to get offended easily.
My question,
if there was no Electoral Committee supervision present or around to verify legitimacy, by Tafoya's own admission(see Tafoya's letters), how and what proof does the plaintiff's gunner Pastor Abel Torres have in order to say some only got 2 votes, if they were not even "present or around to verify legitimacy" and "Clause XII- At this point in the election process, an electronic touch pad was used to receive the votes from which the pastors cast (punched) their respective vote to elect a candidate and tallied by a computer server. The touch pad computer results were not tallied by the Electoral Committee nor were they supervised by
the aforementioned committee.????????
Remembering said...
Lord have mercy!!
gq1973, for you to have claimed that you prayed for healing over this sister who went through cancer who you call Sister Dalia makes me wonder what you really must have prayed for. Was it "let her die Lord, let her die she deserves it?" WOW!! I sure hope not at least for your sake and your family. Whatsoever you wish for others you wish for yourself and that my friend is based on the bible.
September 10, 2008 7:57 AM
what does my prayer have to do with the way she really is? I am not biased as for whom to pray for. The Lord says love your enemy, so I do love my enemy. Just cause I suggest something does not mean I mean any harm to anyone.
And I stand by what I wrote, SIS DALIA IS THE LEAST FIT FOR WOMEN IN MINISTRY TALK!!
I don't know Sis Salomon, but one blogger said she was very articulate, and well spoken... so why not her!!
why not a Pastor's wife that has joined the Association.
or someone Pastor Baldemar Rodriguez knows firsthand.
Not someone whom they have met several times, but a person that they have known on a daily basis.
you are must either be related or affiliated to the Torres family, don't mean any harm, just calling it like I see it.
and those wanting to join the association, do you see how this association is structuring itself, and it has not even been official yet. Lord have mercy on them. (truly)
"do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
there is no wishing in the scripture, read your bible.
by the way, who is paying for the summit??
and the rates are even higher than the ones we can get from the AA
GQ1973
With all that envy, bitterness and altogether bad spirit why do you even bother, just stay where you are and you try to make a difference where you are. I'm sure they don't need someone like you in the new organization. You seem more fit to remain with the "old regime" with all that garbage you are carrying. You seem to not have anything else on your mind but bitterness towards a single person. Bitterness eats away at your soul so you should really pray about it and lose it. To say that someone is not worthy of doing something for the Lord is truly not your place. I think God is the better person for that job.
TO ALL BLOGGERS::
READ....DOES anyone know this person in the article......ALERT ALERT...here is the LINK:
http://www.defensadelafe.org/assets/AU/AU-204.pdf
TO ALL BLOGGERS::
READ....DOES anyone know this person in the article......ALERT ALERT...here is the LINK:
http://www.defensadelafe.org/assets/AU/AU-204.pdf
camindo_voy said...
GQ1973
..... To say that someone is not worthy of doing something for the Lord is truly not your place. I think God is the better person for that job.
September 10, 2008 8:40 AM
so why in the world are you and all the "Reverends of Injustice" fighting for, and I will quote you "To say that someone is not worthy of doing something for the Lord is truly not your place. I think God is the better person for that job."
So you and all the followers are saying the same thing, but since it is going against your flow, you don't like it, Please nigga
and i am not a dumpster to keep garbage in, I let my Lord fight my battles, not the courts!(I JUST HAD TO PUT THAT IN)
everyone should read the book of HOSEA very insightful as to what should be done, not what one should consider, but to do even if it hurts. READ IT, I DARE YOU!!!
TO ALL BLOGGERS::
READ....DOES anyone know this person in the article......ALERT ALERT...here is the LINK:
http://www.defensadelafe.org/assets/AU/AU-204.pdf
Deciding Without Dividing
April 1, 2001
It started with a simple request: "Will you come and moderate a special business meeting at our church?"
As presbyter for 30 churches in the San Francisco area, I agreed to assist. At the time I did not realize this would plunge me into a conflict that would nearly destroy a congregation.
A year after Bill was called to pastor this church, he wanted to change the by-laws to eliminate the periodic vote of confidence and establish an indefinite term of office for the pastor. He aggressively campaigned for a special congregational meeting to approve the idea.
Some in the congregation felt Bill's campaigning signified a shift from pastoral leadership to personal agenda. Rather than leading the church, they felt he was driving it. This polarized the congregation. By the date of the meeting, many members—tired of the politicized atmosphere—had already left the church.
Bill had called me because he thought that a neutral party would restrain the hostility and allow the meeting to proceed with a more civil tone. After a bitter debate, Bill's proposal received a slight majority. I left the meeting saddened by the divisive spirit.
Those who opposed the decision soon left the church. The remainder—bruised and demoralized—continued to dwindle. Income slipped to the point where Bill had to find a part-time job to support his family. Within a year this "pastor for life" resigned. Years later, this once vibrant congregation still struggles to survive.
Whether a church considers a building project, adding a service, or changing the by-laws, decisions often divide. People take sides. In the heat of debate, they often say unpleasant things to each other. Sometimes it takes years to recover.
My experience at Bill's church painfully reminded me of the times that I, too, had bungled the decision-making process. I look back at the strained relationships and frigid atmospheres to which I contributed, and I question whether winning the decision merited the cost. It doesn't have to be that way.
In recent years I've discovered that the process of making a major decision can actually be unifying and energizing. I've found several principles helpful in building that kind of unity.
Teammates wear the same color
The way we make a decision often proves as important as the result achieved, for it affects morale and commitment. Our culture accustoms us to the model of parliamentary debate. Unfortunately, this method usually entrenches individuals in their view as they seek to defend it, to disparage opposing views, and to persuade a majority to join their side.
A quantum shift occurred in my thinking when I realized that the discussion of issues does not have to be adversarial. Instead, it can be a team effort to find the right solution.
A few years ago I came across Edward de Bono's "six thinking hats" approach to making decisions, and I taught it to the leaders in our church.
Rather than taking sides during discussion, everyone works together at a given time on the same task. The colors of the imaginary hats represent different tasks. These include exploring advantages (yellow), problems (black), feelings (red), and alternatives (green). Because everyone wears the same color hat at the same time, the prevailing mood is cooperation.
Try another stance
Sometimes, no matter how hard I try to keep everyone on the same team, I find one person who persists in antagonism. At times, I've caught myself communicating intimidating messages to the dissenters:
"Where's your faith, anyway?"
"I can't believe you're so lacking in spiritual understanding."
"You're opposing God's will! Shame on you."
I wouldn't actually say these things, but my attitude was apparent. Threatened by their disagreement, my natural inclination was to silence the opposition.
I have learned to temper this ungodly inclination by putting myself in the place of those who disagree. Will they feel alienated and demoralized? Even if they appear to maintain their prior commitment, will the residue of resentment contaminate the spiritual tone of the congregation?
Paul tells us to "outdo one another in showing honor" (Rom. 12:10). This does not simply refer to those who are spiritually strong or who agree with us. Publicly and privately, I now seek to affirm those who disagree: "You don't have to agree with every decision we make. Better decisions come about when differing views are presented and prayerfully considered. It's easier to keep quiet, but we value every opinion. Thank you for speaking up."
When people feel valued, they will more likely identify with the church, support the decisions made, and be energized to serve God.
Wait for your pitch
A good proposal at the wrong time is a bad idea, but a good proposal at the right time becomes a great idea. Five years ago our board recommended building an addition that would cost nearly two million dollars. Many members questioned the wisdom.
"How can we think of such an expensive project, when we still have a large mortgage on our facility?" one member said.
Another questioned, "Are we spiritually ready for such an undertaking?"
While strongly favoring it, I realized that the proposal was premature and did not push for it. It was tabled. Three years later, when we revisited the idea, many still opposed it. Again we tabled the matter.
During the past two years, we finished paying off the mortgage. The church has experienced growth and the beginning of revival, which has created a conviction that God is at work. This year the proposal passed overwhelmingly. More importantly, members are united and excited about the future.
Decisions don't always work out so well. A Portuguese-speaking congregation approached us about renting our facilities to hold services on Sunday evenings. I felt that our church should open its doors, and I urged the board to approve.
Since two other ethnic congregations and a preschool were already sharing our building, some board members expressed concern that our facilities would be overtaxed. In this case we could not reach agreement, and the proposal lost by one vote.
Swallowing my disappointment, I remembered to affirm those with whom I disagreed. I sincerely thanked the board for prayerfully and honestly seeking to determine God's will.
Finding the right moment to prompt a decision can be frustrating. How do we discern when the timing is right? I've learned to look for two factors in timing a decision.
First, are the opinion leaders, to whom people look for direction, in favor? If a significant number are opposed, we proceed at our own folly. We act wisely in first gaining their support.
Sometime after the mortgage was paid off, several leaders approached me. "When are we going to reconsider the building project?" Instead of being pushed, they were now pulling me!
Second, do substantial obstacles still exist, or have the issues been adequately addressed? The fact, for example, that the mortgage was fully paid and a viable plan existed for funding the project eliminated the financing objection. Satisfactory answers to nagging questions and solutions to past problems gave the proposal credibility and defused opposition.
The ready position
As pastor, I challenge the church to move forward. For years, however, I hadn't considered the people's readiness to engage in the process of making a major decision. From doomed efforts, I learned to asked three questions.
1. Does a climate of mutual trust, appreciation, and caring exist? If not, I need to work at building this spirit. Otherwise, the process of deciding deteriorates into mistrust, antagonism, and division.
I look for positive signs: Do members feel free to share their needs with one another, and do others respond with support, prayer, and practical help? Do they include other members in their circle of friends and enjoy doing things together informally? Instead of referring to "this church," do they proudly identify it as "our church?"
2. Do the people have an attitude of faith and expectancy that God is at work? If so, they will be more willing to stretch and sacrifice. Building this spiritual environment often involves small steps of faith, steps that build spiritual momentum toward a larger vision.
As they see God working, do they ask, "What does God want us to do next?" Are they stepping out in faith in their own lives to expand their ministry and witness?
3. Are the members growing toward spiritual maturity? Spiritual immaturity includes a weak commitment to biblical values, the priority of personal interests, and the lack of a close relationship with God. I seek signs of growth such as a growing commitment to prayer, Bible study, and ministry. I look for joy instead of duty in worship and discipleship.
My Type A personality groans at this point. I want things to happen now, if not sooner. Building mutual trust and love, faith, and spiritual maturity does not happen overnight. Nonetheless, every good decision needs a solid foundation of proper attitudes and faith.
A major decision easily turns into a divisive struggle. But it can also energize people and bring them together. Which one happens depends on our approach to decision making.
http://www.ctlibrary.com/le/2001/spring/21.103.html
Blessings!!
I read this article online and thought I would share it with my brothers & sisters from the Asamblea.
I'm from the Iglesia Apostolica in Mexico, but likewise, our hearts & prayers go out to all you going thru this difficult moment.
Joe Garza
called2proclaim said...
TO ALL BLOGGERS::
READ....DOES anyone know this person in the article......ALERT ALERT...here is the LINK:
http://www.defensadelafe.org/assets/AU/AU-204.pdf
September 10, 2008 8:53 AM
don't know the guy, but the trinitarian Pastor's name i have heard.
i have been apostolic all of my life, and never have i been taught in our church, that there is only salvation in our organization.
his doctrinal points are so shallow, that it makes me wonder how many in the AA and out of the AA are as shallow.
his first mistake, was to have found an alliance in a man, instead of with God.
second mistake, "de lo contrario tal opinión me costaría mi puesto de liderazgo." notice that it is his opinion. it is not about opinion, it is about what the bible says. I guess he never read the scriptures "the Father and I are one"
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2.He was with God in the beginning.
3.Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4.In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
5.The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
6.There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John.
7.He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe.
8.He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9.The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
10.He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
------------------------
1 Timothy Chp.3
Overseers and Deacons
1.Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task.
2.Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3.not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
4.He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect.
5.(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?)
6.He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
7.He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.
8.Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain.
9.They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience.
10.They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
11.In the same way, their wives are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
12.A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
13.Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.
14.Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that,
15.if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
16.Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.
woooooowwwww!!!
“THEY DIDNT LEAVE. THEY WERE BOOTED... BECAUSE THOSE IN POWER GOT RID OF THOSE THAT CHALLENGED THEM.. - Skotty
Zuniga and Campos left on their own, they were not booted out; So I stand by my statement. My advice was not for those who got “booted out”, it was for those contemplating to leave to join this so called Apostolic Association.
As for those who got booted out, they should focus on their local churches as well.
Btw aafjc isnt an organization right???
as i recall the police asked how to treat the situation in SB... the reply they got was "Treat it like a Business!" -Skotty
An Organization can be treated as Business, not sure what the problem was with this wording!
If Baldemar and Solomon have done wrong in the past, which I am sure they have stories to tell, they should be open about it if they have truly changed.
-Seeker
joe garza, thank you
many of our Pastor have mentioned that the timing was inadequate. others have also mentioned that now that they are out, they can't reform from within.
great article.
GQ1973
I can cut and paste scripture as well. What determines its efficacy, is how it is received. (1Thessalonians 2:13)
sola dei gloria said...
GQ1973
I can cut and paste scripture as well. What determines its efficacy, is how it is received. (1Thessalonians 2:13)
did you read the article??
Did you read 1 Thessalonians 2:13
GQ1973
Yes, I missed your point.
My apologies.
yes, I did read it.
thanks for the reminder though.
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY,
where you hiding?
your words of wisdom are missed. I hope you are well.
so, i thought I'd use this blog to ask a question that someone can possibly assist with. Does anyone know where i can find Daniel "Dan or Danny" Vasquez? That crook owes me a lot of money and is m.i.a.
does anyone know who he married?
Concerned,
You sound concern.
Concerned,
The previous page has numerous pastors info. You can start there.
LL:
u have no idea!
concerned for our buddy TFTD and about finding the dirt bag Danny Vasquez!
Its my own fault though - i cant say i wasnt warned about him and his tactics. Im sure he learned from the best of them!
LL:
i dont know what church he's at now days! he's all over Cali. When we made our busniess deal a couple years back he might have been in Santa Ana? but what good is that going to do me?
I know his brother Javier is in Canoga Park but my beef isnt with him and even if he even knew where his bro was im sure he wouldnt tell me.
Concerned,
Maybe "Skotty" can you help you.
Whats Up WITH RETIRED pastors Taking Over Churches That People Are Getting Booted FROM/leaving???
Are They Just So Spirited That They Are Step'N uP TO THE plate FOR FREE??
Just A thought....
think about it...
who took over SB?
WHo took Over Az?
C'MON ppl I want some Feedback ON this!
TWOVOTE... would you like to share??
Concerned
Danny married sister Julie and both of them are congregating in a UPC church in Bellflower.
That,s all I know.
Danny Vasquez is a great and mighty servant of the Lord. How dare you slimebags start dragging his name through the mud too. You all have lost all conscious. I wouldnt doubt if you all lost the holy ghost by now.
Repent!
facts you never did tell me how one becomes a member of the
flora azuls IN FOT...
what are Membership Requirements...
ne body want to share what the Flora Azuls group is???
Concerned,
Well, you found your man.
Skotty,
You mean Fountain of Half Truth.
lol yeah
Fountain of Half Truth
Fountain Of Some Truth
Fountain of No Truth
Fountain OF Green Truth
FUNNY HOW SAM CAN INCORPORATE HIS CHURCH... YET ITS BAD IF ANYONE ELSE WANTS TO DO THE SAME WITH THEIRS....
DOUBLE STANDARD???
Roy Rogers (oops!) I mean gq1973; bud I know you have to much time in your hands with all this rain coming down in Texas. People will have to wait to have their yards done if you know what I mean.
Is that all you can do Skotty is try to say I'm gay? You have no proof, no facts, nothing. I am more a man than you'll ever know. I'm willing to sleep with any man of your choice just to prove it. Slimebucket!
there you go again, thinking, I am someone I am not.
keep looking guys, maybe you will find the Lord in your quest.
so you are from Midland!!
keep supporting your Pastor!
keep on posting, I will figure out who you are.
"i heard through the grapevine" that yall service was kind of empty. Guess the rivalry between Midland High vs. Midland Lee was more exciting.(just a joke-)
i told my friend to video tape one of yalls services so that we can all see that Pastor Abel is backed up by his congregation.
I have not seen any videos lately, so if you already have them posted, share the links with all of us.
Just disregard GQ1973's comments, notice his previous racist comment:
"So you and all the followers are saying the same thing, but since it is going against your flow, you don't like it, Please nigga".
Sorry GQ, you just lost any minimal amount of credibility you might have had. You might want to absorb some of those scriptures you're so ready to throw around.
thanks accion. I believe i know how to reach him then.
also, can we ALL make a pact to IGNORE FACTSONLY1 (both of them!)
You know GQ, in the end we may lose our church building, who knows, but that's alright although it will be a sad day but we will get through it with God's grace. As for those of us who do support Pastor Torres because we know he has done absolutely no wrong to deserve what has happened to him we will continue to do so and the Lord will provide us with another building.
Why don't you just do the right thing and wish us well and go on about your business. God bless you.
camindo_voy said...
Just disregard GQ1973's comments, notice his previous racist comment:
"So you and all the followers are saying the same thing, but since it is going against your flow, you don't like it, Please nigga".
Sorry GQ, you just lost any minimal amount of credibility you might have had. You might want to absorb some of those scriptures you're so ready to throw around.
September 10, 2008 12:16 PM
WAS I TALKING TO YOU, DON'T THINK SO!!
someone calls me roy rogers, so is that racist too. PLEASE, NIGGA
I have a lot of "African American" friends, that is not racist, you should diverse your friendship.
wah, wah, wah...
i did!!!!!!!!!! there was no hidden message in that, MAN, NIGGA, ROY ROGERS, WHATEVER....
GQ1973 said...
so you are from Midland!!
keep supporting your Pastor!
September 10, 2008 12:08 PM
Wah, wah, wah????
Now you sound just like factsonly, thinkfirst, etc. (aka Sam).
Gooooooooood bye!
factsonly1 said...
Is that all you can do Skotty is try to say I'm gay? You have no proof, no facts, nothing. I am more a man than you'll ever know. I'm willing to sleep with any man of your choice just to prove it. Slimebucket!
September 10, 2008 11:51 AM
eww...
I'm willing to sleep with any man of your choice just to prove it. Slimebucket!
wow
I DIDNT SAY U WERE GAY...
lol
i just asked about the flora azuls group... what kind of group are they if you think im calling you gay??
if it is indeed a gay group... why are they apart of FOT??
btw you CAN get married now... so i dont want you to go deflower yourself ... if indeed you are willing to sleep with ANY man... which you have stated...
GOD created... ADAM AND EVE...
NOT ADAM AND STEVE!!!
lol oldie but goodie right there!
lol
THATS GROSS..
Camino Voy, Support your Pastor.
"Adam & Eve" "Adam & Eve"....
Bloggers,
GO 2 ApostolicAssembly.Info
Other letters of interest not directly pertaining to the elections
Dated 09-08-08 "Fraternidad -Primera Parte ' (1st part)
Can someone translate, for all the pochos.
Wow what a document II the amazing part is that it was written in 2005 a year before the fraudulent elections, also the brief is powerful.
Accion
It's taking a while to SINK.
******Blogistas Vallan a
******ApostolicAssembly.Info
*****(otras cartas ) < Other letters of interest not directly pertaining to the elections>
Articulo "Fraternidad -Primera Parte "
Fecha 09-08-08
Bloggers,
*******GO 2 ApostolicAssembly.Info
****Other letters of interest not directly pertaining to the elections
***Dated 09-08-08 "Fraternidad -Primera Parte ' (1st part)
Can someone translate, for all the pochos.
Accion
It's well written. It would be nice for someone to translate it but, it's long .
***Esta bien escrito . Estuvieran bien traducirlo en English pero esta largo.
To: Thought for the day,
What happened to you brother?
Perhaps you are brother Buffet himself?
camindo_voy said...
Wah, wah, wah????
Now you sound just like factsonly, thinkfirst, etc. (aka Sam).
Gooooooooood bye!
September 10, 2008 12:46
you seem to cry just about for any comment made or question raised, so quit your whining or don't read this blog.
you never answered my joke, was the football game better than the service?
by the way were you there at the service or at the game??
camindo_voy said...
You know GQ, in the end we may lose our church building, who knows, but that's alright although it will be a sad day but we will get through it with God's grace. As for those of us who do support Pastor Torres because we know he has done absolutely no wrong to deserve what has happened to him we will continue to do so and the Lord will provide us with another building.
Why don't you just do the right thing and wish us well and go on about your business. God bless you.
September 10, 2008 12:38 PM
hmmmm, your speech patterns is that of AT-JR, but I am not saying it, just speculating
am i getting close...lol
NEWS ALERT!!
BARRIENTOS VERDICT DUE TODAY...
To
GQ1973 (Gone Queer in 1973)
You sound a little amargadito ever since Abel Aguilar used you. Sorry you were to stupid to realize that they were doing that to you! Ponte los calzones al derecho mi amigo no trate de imitar a Sanchez. If you weren't such an idiot the Midland church would give you another chance. You FOOL! Aqui en Califas la MD se rien de ti!LOL!
LA DIST. W/Insights into Rancho Cucamona
GQ I have tried to refrain myself from even saying anything to you because of your childish mannerisms. Psychology teaches us many great things. One thing it has taught us is that when you do not like a particular church or family it is because you recognize something in them that you yourself have with in you. So either you don't like because you see something in that church that you wish you had. Or you want to be just like them. Which of the two is it?
NEWS FLASH......
RE: People of California
Vs.
Armando Fierro Barrientos
(Pastor, El Centro, AAFJC)
Jury Verdict: GUILTY
Charge: Sexual Battery
NEWS FLASH......
RE: People of California
Vs.
Armando Fierro Barrientos
(Pastor, El Centro, AAFJC)
Jury Verdict: GUILTY
Charge: Sexual Battery
I have been reading this Blog site for the past 2 weeks. This is the most pathetic group of people I have ever encountered. So the so called General Board did you all wrong, guess what, it is the past if you don’t like it leave dumb a$$e$!!! The Apostolic Assembly is not the only church and what should be more priority is God not some organization that was highjacked by some grumpy old men. You all need to get a life and grow up, God exist out side of the Apostolic Assembly and continue to move. You think God’s priority is to save the Apostolic Assembly???? I got news for you, His agenda is not the Assembly, His Priority is His Glory.
It pisses me off to see all of you all cry over some man made organization, which is corrupt. I am out raged that grown a$$ men on this blog are bickering and have made this issue a priority in their life in their mind they think it is God’s will to do so. News Flash!!!! . . . God is not interested in the restoration of Apostolic Assembly!!! . . .
I can not stress this any more . . . this issue has cause you all to become bitter, saddened, frustrated, and ultimately has become your lifestyle, pretty sad won’t you say? Instead of focussing on God and His will in your life, your priorities are on the Apostolic Assembly. You all should learn a lesson form Job: the Lord, Gives and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the Lord
listen,
Relax dude.
And I call you dude and not brother because the words you use are not of a God fearing Christian.
Why are you so upset ?
Are you dismissing these individuals feelings ?
This is a forum for those affected to discuss and vent their feelings.
Why on earth would it bother you so much.
And why choose that language.
It shows your carnality.
NEWS FLASH......
RE: People of California
Vs.
Armando Fierro Barrientos
(Pastor, El Centro, AAFJC)
Jury Verdict: GUILTY
Charge: Sexual Battery
Carnality? Dude? I am a sinner just as everyone one else in here. I rather be called dude anyway. Non of this hermano crap.
I am not dismissing their feelings, it is almost 2 years, these men who are venting on here should vent to God and move on! 2 years dude, hermano, brother, mano! 2 years! It is time they all grow up and move on and realize God is not stuck in their Beloved Assembly! Move on grow up leave your bird nest and start flying!
Trophyman: WAY To GO!!! Omar or Joann had it comning. When you come to Texas please look me up. I'd like to take you to eat a BIG TEXAS STYLE STEAK!!!
Oops! correction on the word coming
Here is a little ryhme song for Qg1973. Enjoy!!
Oh! where oh! where has the idiots gone?
Oh! where oh where can they be?
With their mouth so big and their tongues so long.
Oh! where, Oh! where can they be.
What a nerd. He said it pisses him off and how we need to grow up and move on. Giggle my nizzles! Hillarious!
For a man who has moved on, you sure do keep following up on our beloved church.
Can't leave it behind? Giggle me timbers. You are no better than we are. You know you love the apostolic church, deal with it.
Giggling me timbers off.
Um, looks like *listen* needs to get laid. He's really stuffy right now.
Don't worry about me, i get laid every night, enjoy every bit of it! unlike other that have manuela under the sheets!
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