AV
- Abel Torres - LYNCHED I
- Saul Avila - LYNCHED
- Baldemar Rodriguez - LYNCHED
- Daniel Solomon - LYNCHED
- Arthur Tafoya
- Daniel Jauhall
- Isaac Cota
- Ishmael Arellano
- Julian Aguirre
- Richard Galaviz
- Samuel Arellano
- Guillermo Mendoza - LYNCHED
- Martin Vasquez
- Herman Garza
- Efrain Andrade - LYNCHED
- Isaac Hernandez - LYNCHED*
*Not 2006 Election related
3,402 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1601 – 1800 of 3402 Newer› Newest»so any one know if they ex comunicated ex bishop from southern ca distr for having an affair with one of his dorcas. probably not GB probably havent even investigated that matter or they'll probably let it go, just like ex bishop from south ca distr let go when his brother's wife had an affair with someone from their own church(ocean side ca) and nothing was done infact they are the English Pastors,I know I'm in Fresno ca but I got friends at Abel Aguilar and thats where I heard it from,I guess some one from southern ca distr goes to his church....but the point here is not to point fingers at no one the point is that we have to have MERCY for every one not just certain individuals..Sam Valverde preaches realy good and goes down on the Youth real good but the reason he has a big church it's because everything is permited,but at some other churches is PECADO,SO i GUESS HE IS VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION AS WELL HOW COME HE IS NOT REMOVE..
jwp and ap-insider I hope he keeps his properties if his grandson does not mess it up for him
The false prophets are the ones that sit at the kings tables!
The false prophets are the ones that sit at the kings tables!
My Video is trash.. isnt it...
Trash Because it shows the truth
Trash Because it shows the True Spirit of the gb
Trash Because it Shows RAW EMOTIONS
Trash Because it Affects Every1
Trash Because YOU DONT LIKE IT
Trash Because YOU CANT DENY WHAT HAPPENED!
Trash Because YOU WISH IT NEVER HAPPENED!
Trash Because YOU WISH YOU NEVER SEEN IT.
Trash Because They Were Not Supposed to Rise Agaisnt
Trash Because They Stood up For WHAT is RIGHT!
Trash Becasue YOU CHOOSE NOT to ACCEPT IT...
I'll Finish On some thoughts of the gb...
They did this!
They divided the church of God!
They were unethical!
They committed this act of wrong to the church!
DIRTY DEEDS DONE DIRT CHEAP!!
DIRTY DEEDS DONE DIRT CHEAP!!
DIRTY DEEDS And Their DONE DIRT CHEAP!!
-SKOTTY
July 3, 2008 2:03 PM
July 3, 2008 2:11 PM
July 3, 2008 2:53 PM
Skotty,
lugo said "le voy apedir a nuestro hermano ex-pastor que por favor remueva esta camara o tienen que salir todos"
Thats saying get rid of the camera or everyone has to leave!
Things like this here, should always be recorded, for everyones protection!
It should have never been said "if you're not baptize you cannot be here".
They should'nt have done it on a service night, it should have been done on a day when souls would not be expected to show up, children should'nt have been there at all!
They failed to plan!
Not its on the Web!
For all to see!
2 texasranger
2 things,
1. the aa has already sued pastor mendoza for the personal property he took
2. pastor will not relinquish that day care property under abc's name
for the aa, it's all about property and not about people
Scotty,
what are your real intentions here? Do you really think that you are going to accomplish something other than making that everyone knows that your just dumb and immature.
Do you really think that your constant slander against men of god is going to lift you up any higher?
Can we just call it they way that is?
some pastors got butt hurt because they felt they should have been on the board, and they got overlooked.
Don't think that Baldy's actions were done "in the name of integrity". he was made because hew knew that he too had some votes and they got overlooked.
The practices and the decisions behind closed doors, was something that he did all the time in 24 yrs of service.
But back to you...
I pray that God have pity on your soul for your "attempt" at causing a revolution.
There will be no revolution here.
So you and all your ego'd dumb followers go start a indi church...and we'll watch it crumble in 3 yrs. Not because God wasn't preached, because it was birthed our of rebellion.
oh, and where is Hank the Tank?
this is jessica maldonado, i dont think you should break your head trying to figure out who i am...
factsonly:
excuse me...but were you at the meeting? if you werent at the meeting then why are you talking so much crap...
1.FYI pastor was kicked out for asking a question and the question was "can we get a recount of votes?" after they answered his question with a no he decided to sue the assembly...get ur facts straight "factsonly" lol
2.we were in fact kicked out, and shoved by the ushers and other dudes that were there...if you saw the videos clearly you would know...
3.it wasnt only young ppl that walked out and spoke up, obviously u are too blind to see all the other ppl that walked out, 80% of them walked out as well as the faithful viejitas...you're just jealous because we stood up for what is right and we r making history...
4.we are the ppl, we make the church, not the building so dont bash on us for standing up for what we believe in...
5.we'd rather follow a man of God then corrupt gb members...they arent doing the will of God and they know it, why do u think they had so much backup that day, they were insecure about the situation and they thought they werent going to come out alive...
6.learn how to spell and use correct sentences before pointing fingers, and make sure your hands are clean...
7.God bless you!!
remember you may point one finger but the other three are pointing back at you!!
So as rumor would have it THEY may be removing Bro. Galarza. And THEIR reason?
Because he is a good and loyal friend of Bro. A. Torres!!!
NOW ISN'T THAT RETALIATION OF THE WORST KIND!
cantwejustgetalong
and the actions AGAINST THESE PEOPLE...
ARE Acts OF THE LORD???
WHY BECAUSE ITS THE "Godly Boys"?
falseonly1, I meant "facts" lol I crack myself up!
Don't be to quick to point the finger remember you are in God's hands. I must still be getting over pain but remember you are the one who choose to stay behind so you should be rejoicing not badgering people.
God Bless everyone and have a great 4th on July Let Freedom Ring!
cantwealljustgetalong:
i dont know who you are and i already dont like you...
the choices we made were ours, exactly!!so keep ur mouth closed if all ur gnna do is bash...
our church is still apostolic, not indi,its gnna last until God comes for his church not just 3 years...
we dont need your assembly to Praise God, Your assembly needs my tithes!!
and may i add thanks for ur negative feedback, it just proves how immature you are for bashing on Gods ppl...thanks for making us the center of ur world!!
p.s anyone wanna get their worship on with us, Baldemar's congregation is growing in numbers...
SUNDAYS @ 2PM
VALLEY COLLEGE
701 S. MT VERNON AVE
SAN BERNARDINO, CA 92401
Blessings...
i_stand_4_one
I meant you "You must still" I tell you I crack myself up! LOL
GBY:)
To Scotty will show you,
Other reasons why your video is trash..
1. You sound like a demon.
2. You use a song that says “Jesus is the Second in The Trinity”.
3. You say that BR was forced to surrender the church and there was no warning, you and everyone here knows there was plenty warning even by you bogglers
4. You lie that Bishop Lugo was claiming victory when he just raised his hand because they were chanting at him..
5. You say you were kicked out but Diane Rodriguez was able to come back in to disrupt the prayer.
6. You see all those “sisters” wearing a veil as a sign of authority, but rebelling and speaking against authority.
7. You say kicked out but one of the guys who you interviewed said “our pastor walked and so did we”
8. Because SOME people NOT showing Christian behavior chose to leave and go to the park and praise God like if they hadn’t done anything wtong
Factsonly1!
get over your bad spirit we must pray for him LOL! You sound bitter don't let your hurt and anger get the best of you bro;) You sounding wrong and I'm sure in God's eyes he's not happy with you. So bro chil man of God or so you say!!
and quit acking as if you were there it's getting old
They did this!
They divided the church!
They hurt the people of God!
They did this wrong!
They lied to 400+ pastors!
They made fools of themselves!
You want healing, then you must step down! Otherwise we will not stop!
God did not give us a spirit of fear! But he gave us a spirit of power!
i stand for 1.
please....show 1 church that left the AA that lasted more than 3 yrs? Yeah..NONE
if you think that Baldy is going to sit by and not create another org that he can sit on top of...you have another thing coming.
i don't know why you get all crazy when i speak something about baldy...you act like he is a saint or something.
Skotty,
I guess you and me are the only ones who know lyrics to AC/DC songs.
God is just:
Nice try. If there really are investigators and they can't remember the lyrics to "Hells Bells" and have no reading comprehension skills then they might think, like you seem to, that there's some kind of death threat in there.
If you're just being silly and trying to get me to stop blogging, then I will put it in plain English for you.
While some of us are on this blog trying to tear each other apart and make each other look foolish, the real enemy, Satan, is laughing his head off. He has one goal, to take us all to hell with him. Jesus said, "The thief cometh not but for to steal, to kill, and to destroy."
So, we can keep tearing each other apart and do Satan's will, or we can encourage each other to pray, read the scriptures (not the AA constitution) and speak with our local pastors about this situation.
The truth is, my fellow laborer, there are those who have been ousted who still love the AA and are praying for all of us. I encourage you to do the same. Were you there when the Church of Indio, still part of the AA, said a heartfelt prayer for Pastor Baldemar and his church? Keep on praying for ALL your brothers and sisters in Christ.
God Bless You
factsonly1:
dont be disappointed because you were left behind...
like i said read the previous comments we posted to you and stop ignoring them...
you're wrong for bashing on Gods ppl and on skotty...istead of talking about him why dont u pray for him that the Lord touches his heart and that he may give his life to Christ instead of talking about him all ur doing is making he stray farther from christian ppl and making him not want to have anything to do with Christians as a whole...
oh and learn how to spell lol "wtong" lol
Blessings...
i_stand_4_one
and with that new org...there will be an new "constitution" and don't think that pastors won't have to pay their "tithe of tithe" either...because he yanked pastor for that too.
but there was no camera to found for them.
also don't think that you'll own your own property either..because he (in his 24 yrs of service) pulled pastors for that too.
shall I continue?
i do apologize for my constant misspelling...I'm at working and don't have much time to scan over...
Pray for scotty? Yeah I pray that God will turn him from his wicked ways.
Keep in mind that there were only 3 conspirators with the CID...not all 8.
m gallegos,
YOu left out the rest of the scripture:
"...and of love, and of self control."
Let's exhibit a little bit more of this, as we seek a resolution to this issue.
God Bless You.
cantwealljustgetalong:
instead of talking ur mess just get down on ur knees, humble yourself and pray...
theres no need in trying to argue with me because im not gnna lower myself to ur level...
Dr.Baldemar isnt perfect and in case u havent noticed...no one is!
you can talk all u want about him but ur words mean nothing to me unless you have proof to back them up...
give me an example of the bad he has done and ill give u my opinion!
cantwealljustgetalong:
u must not have alot of work right now to keep u busy cuz ur still on this thing blogging! :)
I will not give you an example of a bad thing...because that would cause me to stoop to the same level as all the other bloggers..
My point to you is this...
don't quite submit his name for sainthood.
I will not slander him, as I have respect for him.
I will question his decision for suing the AA. And I will question his attempt to make himself seem as harmless as a dove in his statement "all I did was stand up and ask a question".
I just want everyone to understand that there were 3 GB members who did act in fraud...not all 8.
if you have a problem with that as I do...then please post your suggestions to fix. but I am not in support of slander, esp with the families.
that is a fowl move.
it is acts like that make my decision to not want anything to do with pastoring very easy.
cantwealljustgetalong:
i have no further comments for now, i have to go cuz i have more important things to do...
but i just might be back later...
God bless n u and anyone else who is against pastor rodriguez are in my prayers...
i_stand_4_one
canwejustgetalong,
you are so contradicting yourself get over it. Even your name doesn't agree with you LOL! If you can't fess up to what baldemar has done than don't say anything at all, your just a fool for backing done and acking as if your mature! Grow up!
APWC
Sorry I have not responded to you earlier, but I was out of town.
My dear onguard,
Do you know what bolean algebra is? DO you know what differential equations are? Do you know anything about digital and analog circuits? Do you know anything about AND Gate, NOR Gates, NAND Gates, XO Gates, and so on. Do you know what BSEET stands for? Do you happen to know anything about auxiliary power units, electronic testing equipment such as oscillators, harmonic testers, and digital metters? Probably not!! Do you know what Dross is after a circuit board is soldered by a machine? Have ever heard of old CRT's, tubes, capacitance, resistance, inductance, etc., etc? Probably not my friend!
Good point why don't you explain it to me. I find it funny that you are throwing out terminology without expanation. Before you dismiss my engineering aptitude, just explain the various concepts.
"Anyway, I will not stoop down to your level of ignorance.
What is my level of ignorance? When someone encounters you in the same manner as you have the GB (your leaders), you attack their level of competence. This shows that you are no different than your so called accusations of the GB.
"However do know ONE thing, you ae talking to a real Pastor, with a real congregation, that ministers not only to sinners, but to widows, abused women, and foster children! Your disrispect is indicative of the present situation in our leadersdhip."
How am I suppose to know this when you are blogging anonymously? You expect me to take your word for it? If you do minister to sinners, widows, abused women, and foster children how do you have so much time to blog? You work as an engineer (which I know is a demanding job) and Pastor people with great need (which demands a great deal of time) where do you find the time to blog? Do you have a family? If you do where do they fall on your list of priorities? Before you accuse me of the disrespect you have, remember you are the pastor who is blogging anonymously on a blog that talks about the churchs' dirty laundry. I agree with you that we need to stand for truth, but blogging anonymously is not standing for truth. Actually I am ashamed that our organization has pastor like you that are cowards. By the way I have shown my pastor our correspondence on this blog and he cannot believe that you feel justified blogging about church business. He commends MY RESPONSES TO YOU.
Also, I live nowhere close to Texas, and I don't even know Pastor Torres myself. So when you say, "I know some of your family members who have happened to see your blog name on Abel Torres' computer." This only proves to me the lack of credibility, and integrity your blogs and information have, NONE!
I find it wierd that you do not know Abel Torres, when you all belong to very small organization. Do you have any interactions with him? I bet if you posted your name on this blog, I bet I would know you. Better yet why don't you post your phone number and maybe I will give you a call. Ok, I believe that you are not Abel Torres and next time his family members tell me that you and him are the same person, I will be sure to correct them.
"My dear friend, you manifest the same disrispect and comptent you accuse other of having towards the GB. YOU ARE JUST THE SAME!! So please waste your time someplace else with your assumptions of bitterness and hatred. I pastor because I have a calling NOT because I NEED A SALARY! May God have mercy on your soul."
I am sorry you feel that I am being disrespectful because you cannot handle when someone comes against you as you have with the GB. You do not like a taste of your own medicine, well too bad. By the way thank you for not using I can discern your spirit by the holyspirit. I will continue to waste my time here as you have.
As far as you pastoring because you are called, I hope this is true. Is blogging part of your pastoral duties? I fail to see how blogging ministers to your people. I believe your calling is as genuine as Eddie Pacheco, Abel Aguilar, Daniel Sanchez and the whole GB. Just to inform you God has had mercy on my soul. However, I hope God has mercy on your soul for disgracing the office of a pastor by your cowardly posts.
Since you do not need you moderate salary from your church, why not go with the UPC or independent? Pastors like you is the reason the assembly is in the situation it is in.
GBY Onguard
Sanchez has REALLY lost it
i have had alot of respect for him but now him and his puppets, are stepping on gods grounds, talking from experience. i have been thru the same with my brother A respectful pastor here in h town.
the one who did him wrong was punished from god and his family is still suffering.
think smart .WWJD
cantwejustgetalong:
im sorry that u didnt realize this sooner and that im the 1 telling u this but u already stooped down to the level of all the other bloggers(oh this is how u spell it by the way)by writing these comments. i know pastor baldemar is not a saint nor is he perfect theres only 1 perfect person n that is God. I have attended pastors church since i was born and he may not be a saint but he is a man of God and what the gb did to him was wrong. many ppl are saying that the ppl that went with pastor are endemoniados and that we are following man. Even if we did go w/pastor we didnt follow man we followed Him because God told us and we knew it was the right thing to do...
GBY
Ok,lets try to reason things out.
So 3 members of the gb are the ones who fooled 400+ pastors right?
Now the question is why, don't the rest of them say something?
You may not agree and thats fine, however is that not called gulty by association?
Lets just say, Skotty and I go out and I steal a car, and Skotty gets in the car and rides with me, is he not just as gulty? If he just follows along and make no attempt to stop me, he is gulty!
So lets say those 3 gb members stepped down and are helded accountable-people still got hurt!
And will not come back!
So that is why we say, whos side are you on? And draw the lines.
We go one way and you go another.
You see we have to lay it on the line. And play for keeps! We can not forget the AA is not the church, you and I are the church.
And when someone causes harm to the church they are causing harm to Christ, and that is a dangerous possition to be in. When people defend the gb, just remember that elderly sister getting up and walking out. She is the CHURCH.
We can go on in circles and agree to disagree, but I have a mission to do and you have yours, and thats where its at.
We were locked out of our church the other day. It was a horrible feeling to be locked out of your HOME. The awesome thing was to see most of the congregation back up our Pastor. It made me realize that my church family is united. We don't need the Apostolic Assembly to worship the lord. The have never helped us with anything. Instead they take 10% of the diezmos our memebers give to pay for ????? and Sister Rachael Valverdes new Mercedes. My question is..... Is there any other Pastors standing up for this injustice or are they going to sit on the sidelines and see it all happening. Do you realize that people who are just comming to the Lord can loose their faith seeing all this happening? God Bless you all.
god bless
What church are you from? I am praying for you all!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRO7s4KCMPU
Strong believer in god...
your comment was so ALL OVER THE PLACE! I don't know where to begin!
pero, ahi va.
1) No i am not anonymous. if i've said it once, i've said a million times. You, however, are anonymous.
2) I quote the constitution as it is written. You should know that. your Dad knows it. He's only a phone call away.
3) I do indeed, have a job. A good one, thank God. that being said, I'm on vacation this week. i go back tuesday. :) How's your job? in fact i think i know who you are. don't you have kids?
4) you said th following: I understand your loyalty, being that Bro. Rodriguez has been your pastor all your life, correct? And your families as well, I mean he must be for you to be defending him with such conviction.
Or am I wrong, maybe your a new member to the AA oooops Ex-AA
i am loyal to this man, of god, yes. not because of who he is, but because i know God is with him. just like the Israelites followed Moses, I follow Baldemar.
You saying that implies you know me, which is ok, because i think i know you. No, BR was not my pastor my whole life. elder Efrain Ramirez from 1 Pomona was(someone i think you know very well). He married my parents, presented me in the church, watched me grow up, even buried my grandparents. But the length of time that i have known BR is irrelevant. He is loved my many and there is a reason why. You should talk to him one day...
Maybe you never really knew what it was like to have a pastor? If you are who i think you are, you don't. Which is a shame because you've always had a WONDERFUL pastor, One the i admire and love.
5) you told me to get my facts straight.
help me out.
which facts.
tell me why they are wrong.
what are your sources.
give me SOME credit. I'm not the same little kid i was before.
Paz de Cristo
Es una verguenza que Hijos de Dios esten Hablando de esta forma. Me pregunto si verdaderamente el Espiritu de Dios esta en uatedes. He estudiado el libro de Los Hechos varias veces y hasta ahora no he leido nada semejante a lo que esta pasando en nuestro organismo. muchos de estos hermanos solo ven lo que se ve por fuera, pero no han estado anos en la asamblea. se estan dejando llevar por la marea y eso no es de Dios. Si verdaderamente creen que se esta haciendo una injusticia con estos pastores, apoyenlos en ayuno y oracion.Clamando al que todo lo puede. Como cuando Pedro estaba en la Carcel y los Hermanos estaban en una casa orando por el. asi se debe apoyar a sus dirigentes no con pancartas desacreditando a los demas como si fueramos del mundo. Y antes de hacer cosas semejantes preguntenle a Nuestro Senor Jesucristo si esa es la manera de conducirce delante del mundo.
Que el Dios DE la Gracia Los Ilumine y les de Sabiduria de Arriba.
Paz de Cristo
Es una verguenza que Hijos de Dios esten Hablando de esta forma. Me pregunto si verdaderamente el Espiritu de Dios esta en uatedes. He estudiado el libro de Los Hechos varias veces y hasta ahora no he leido nada semejante a lo que esta pasando en nuestro organismo. muchos de estos hermanos solo ven lo que se ve por fuera, pero no han estado anos en la asamblea. se estan dejando llevar por la marea y eso no es de Dios. Si verdaderamente creen que se esta haciendo una injusticia con estos pastores, apoyenlos en ayuno y oracion.Clamando al que todo lo puede. Como cuando Pedro estaba en la Carcel y los Hermanos estaban en una casa orando por el. asi se debe apoyar a sus dirigentes no con pancartas desacreditando a los demas como si fueramos del mundo. Y antes de hacer cosas semejantes preguntenle a Nuestro Senor Jesucristo si esa es la manera de conducirce delante del mundo.
Que el Dios DE la Gracia Los Ilumine y les de Sabiduria de Arriba.
M.Gallegos
You are right. What the GB did, they did as the GB, not as three independet members of the GB.
I'm not so sure that the people who got hurt will never come back.
I respect you for deciding to go your way and leave the AA. That must have made a very difficult decision to make.
However, I don't think we need to draw lines in the sand. Paul spoke very seriously to the Corinthians about creating divisions in the church.
What we have to lay on the line is the health of the AA. Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth. Those pastors who swallow their pride and wait patiently for the next convention will make meaningful change in the AA.
And even though the AA is not the church, my fellow AA members and I are the AA.
Although people ARE hurting, what harm has been caused? If you count wounded pride as harm, then yes, but as far as I can see, all the congregations of the Pastors whose sanctuaries were reposessed are still congregating and praising the wonderful name of Jesus Christ.
I don't defend the actions of the GB, I simply would like to hear somebody bring up a viable resolution, much like Brother Thompson's, to this unnecessarily divisive issue.
When you speak of your mission, you remind me of my brother who was a pastor in the AA and left because things weren't the way we know they should be. When I asked him why he didn't stick around and work toward solution for the sake of the people he loves in the AA, he couldn't give me an answer either. His mind was already made up.
Thank you for still caring for the organization that you decided to leave. I sense that there is still hope for the return of the prodigal son (I use the word prodigal very loosely as I know you're not a backslider).
God Bless You.
launica
Sister I have and other senior woman have felt your pain
"When you went for your walk we walked with you in prayer."
Hold your head up, I know you are in alot of pain and confused as to why is this happening. This is unheard of in Gods people, but in the last days the bible says that the love of many would wax coooooold.
Lets not let the enemy of enemies have a field day with us.
In our neighbor country there is an uprour of killings like never before,in our country thier is so much confusion and desperation with situation with the economy , imigration,fuel hitting record high and climbing and now having to deal with this terrible ordeal that has brought us to our knees. It has hit home and we need to stay focus on Jesus.
We have entered a spiritual depresion and recession in such a way that it has really sent us in a wirlwind of mixed emotions.
We need to cry out to the Lord with all our heart and deticate alot of prayer.But we need to do it!!!!
Love changes things, we need to stay huddled together and trust in Jesus to guide us.
Sister we love you , we don't know you but the spirit of Jesus puts compassion in our hearts to feel your pain.
Like you say if we have to start from scratch again so be it lets start.
Jesus is our rewarder and not man. Man will always disapoint us but Jesus won't.
I have seen alot through out my walk with Jesus. Yes we have been through many hardships in many aspects throughout the years.
We would be put in prueba just for not wearing nylons with the line.
But Jesus has always been there. Many saints were persecuted in the Bible.Many were skinned alive and displayed, hunged, executed for Jesus cause. But it didnt stop people from worshiping the Lord.
We can rebuild, yes we can rebuild yes we can.Lets rebuild our trust in Him .
Be not dismayed. We Love You
Seniors for Christ.
cantwejustgetalong said...
I just want everyone to understand that there were 3 GB members who did act in fraud...not all 8.
I must have missed it, can you please explain which three and what there parts were in the fraud?
Also, can you explain why the others are not at fault
Can I make a request...
If there is any news about the entire situation... and I mean REAL news... not... pacheco has this many houses, and Sanchez this or that..
Lets put an entire row of astricks on the top and bottom of the post like this...
*************************************
This is so I can weed through all the crap you guys post and get to the stuff thats most important... news!
Id appreciate your help.
string believer,
I hate to be so blunt,
but if your dad got excommunicated by BR, He deserved it.
Parents don't always tell their kids everything.
food for thought.
we all have skeletons in our closets.
your dad was just unlucky enough to get exposed.
:)
Well,
FIRST of all, our faith is in god. DARE TO CHALLENGE US ON THAT,
BR being a wise man, challenges our intellects.
we've seen the court transcripts.
we've read the constitution.
we've heard testimonies of brothers who have caught the fraud first hand.
and i am a PERSONAL witness to the GB's cruelty.
So thanx for the suggestion, but no thanx.
Either way bitter & biased opinions don't settle right with me.
seriously, if he ec'd SO MANY pastors, you'd think they wouldn't voter for him OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. interesting.
Snoopyd:
Well thank you for the comment/response, and I can tell that you and I agree more than we realize...I agree about we not needing divisions amongst us, in this case though the division began with the removal of said Pastors. I believe the gb was aware that the local churches would follow their Pastors, therefore things could have been done differently. For the sake of unity, but I dont believe that was a factor to the gb, they did what they felt had to be done!
So now we have people saying that those who followed Pastor Baldemar Rodrigues are out of God's will and are rebels...I will admit, there is some rebels but that is not the case in general. I did not start the division, I am just speaking out because I truely believe the gb was way out of hand and had no control of the situation. You Snoopyd seem reasonable, but not everyone is, hence when everything is said and done (lets say years from now) there will be those who will say that Pastor Baldemar's congregants were all rebels out of God's will because they went against the AA...What many do not understand is this is not against the people of the AA, this is against the gb...How many Pastors do you think will continue to fellowship Pastor Baldemar,Avila,Solomon,Torres,ETC.
None in the AA, why because when the AA ex-communicates someone they send out letters to all Pastors to inform them not to invite/communicate/fellowship with said people. So what happens in many cases (not all) those who are ex-out end up dying spiritually because they were not connected to the body (no fellowship).
I can tell you now I know people who cried when they saw those videos, it did hurt alot of people. Some will even get bitter towards the AA, and even the oneness movement in general. I've seen it happen.
That is why I still believe we do need to draw the lines (its been done before thats how the AA,UPCI,PAW,UAC,ALJC,WPF and all the others have come to be know).
Why because we dont always agree on things, now I'm very well acquainted with Paul's writings even more so with the book of Cor. And we can bring scripture into it but what good will that do if we have different points of view and like I said before they divided the church, now to me its about will we go along with this gb and ex-out these people or say no! Not this time! You see someone said it was just 3 gb members gulty, I said they are all gulty for allowing it, the same could be said about all Pastors and ministers because by not speaking up against it they are allowing it...
And we could go on for days just going in circles, I know I'm not moving from my stance.
Again thank you for the response, I can see you're a reasonable person, let me know what you think...We have to make a difference in this generation,otherwise years from now we'll look back with regrets...
M.Gallegos,
You are right. We do need to make a difference in our generation. I have felt for over 10 years now that the generation that is now the GB refuses to allow younger generations to move. They want to make all the calls and frankly I feel the younger generation is virtually insignificant and ignored. Yet when the older generation were our age, they were already the movers and shakers.
I found Quintius' comment and I'd like to re-post part of it as a viable solution.
Quintius said: Here is some food for thought: A simple majority (50 + 1% of all voting affiliates) of the convention, which in corporate jurisprudence constitutes quorum necessary for meetings called to order and commencement, as well as motions carried in each session proceeding, may draw up a strategic motion on the floor, calling to the question as to a vote of no confidence in the current governing administration. This would immediately suspend the convention proceedings until a committee of 7, 9, or 11 affiliate members in good standing, be appointed by the majority selection of the convention, to ascertain the outcome of the motion. If parliamentary procedure is correctly carried out, deliberation would commence, while any other action would be out of order and unrecognized in regards to the minutes of those proceedings. One other item for thought: Consider proposing the amendment of property and asset rights to foster a "self-governing local church" instead of a nationally owned entity."
This type of action can make a difference. However, it is up to our pastors to take such action. That is why I continue to encourage our brothers to have conversations with their local pastors and their ministers. If the laity urges their pastors to take such action, then the pastors may be more likely to make such a move.
All it takes is two pastors who trust each other to make the motion and second it immediately.
I'm just wondering if we have enough pastors (around 350) who know enough about parlimentary procedure to carry out such proceedings.
M.Gallegos:
You also said that not everyone is reasonable. I hate to admit that that is true. At the risk of sounding presumptuous, that is something that I often forget.
Thank God for this blog.
The more reasonable dialogue we have, the more reasonable people might become.
Senior4Christ:
I have no doubt that God will answer your prayers. I am reminded of the widow and the unjust judge. I encourage you and your sisters to speak with your pastor about the situation and support him. He has to know that only he and his fellow pastors can change things for the AA at the next convention.
God is Just:
About a week ago, you said,
"I truly believe it is God's will that the AA is kicking out a majority of the founders. Now we will be able to start a new organization that will bring back the fundamentals that were meant to be founded in the AA of today."
I couldn't disagree with you more. The AA is kicking out a majority of its founders because there has not been enough open, honest conversation between laity & pastors, pastors & elders, elders & bishops, bishops & GB.
Simply blogging won't change a thing. We must speak freely and openly with our local pastors. If you, like many, are uncomfortable speaking with your pastor or your ministers, remember what Jesus said, "Where two... are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them."
Cantwejustgetalong and factsonly1:
It seems apparent to me that you have very little sympathy for the Revolutionaries for Justice. You have that right.
However, it is difficult for me to believe that ANYONE feels that what the GB did was ethical both at the O6 Convention and to the Pastors who were excommunicated. Regardless of their shortcomings, they are all basically good men.
Have you spoken with any of these pastors who were excommunicated? Have you spoken with your pastors about the situation?
I encourage you to start a dialogue with your pastors in your local church about this whole situation so that if anything ever does reach home, your congregation will stand united, regardless of where they stand.
God Bless You.
Nathan Hale was born in Coventry, Connecticut on June 6, 1755. At age 14, he enrolled at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut. While at Yale, he became close friends with Benjamin Tallmadge, a fellow Yale student who would later become George Washington's head of intelligence during the Revolutionary War. Hale graduated from Yale with honors and became a school teacher in nearby East Hadaam, and later in New London. When the war began, he joined the Connecticut militia and became a first sergeant. In 1776, he was promoted to captain in the Continental Army's 7th Connecticut Regiment.
In August and September of 1776, during the Battle of Long Island, Hale volunteered to spy on British troop movements. Disguised as a school teacher, he was captured by British forces near present-day Queens following the torching of New York City. British officials, suspicious of Hale's school-teacher facade, pretended to be Patriots and succeeded in convincing him to reveal his espionage (spy) activities. He was then questioned by British General William Howe. Apparently, some evidence was found on him, and he was subsequently hanged for treason the next day. According to eyewitness accounts, Hale's composure in the moments before his execution were astounding. His final words, "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country," have been immortalized forever. Today, statues of Nathan Hale can be seen at the Nathan Hale Homestead, Yale University, the Central Intelligence Agency (C.I.A.), and Andover Academy in Massachusetts.
"I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country," Nathan Hale
Happy Fouth of July!! Let's remember why we have the Freedoms and Rights we have.
Remember our brothers and sisters serving in Armed Forces, assuring we keep our Freedoms.
God Bless You all.
God Bless The United States of America!!
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ae9fb493f451d60c54e5
Here you go Josh Bayne!
********************************
The AA got rid of the Greatest original Orator/Preacher the AA has ever had. Baldemar will never be matched by anyone else he is a man of the word! Relly enjoyed him expound the word. Valverde he is like watching TBN, not that I watch it that much, but when I do it reminds me of Sam Valverde. What a fake!
The AA loosing Baldemar is like if the Lakers were to lose Kobe Bryant! What a Loss!
Now Josh your problem is you have to much crap to tend to! Your crap at the UPC is already making you crazy! So it might be wise for you not to meddle in tha AA crap! Can I hear an AMEN!
LA DIST. w/Insights into Rancho Cucamonga
My Thoughts This 4th of July, A Symbol of Freedom
I would like to say that I hold no grudges against our beloved president and neither against the rest of the General Board, nor those of you who have expressed your comments on this blog. Today, we celebrate our freedom which was fought for by our country’s forefathers and thank God that because of it we are able to enjoy freedom of speech too! I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I can't speak for each one of the other wives whose husbands are involved in this case but I can speak from a point of view of a wife who respects the decision of her husband and stands by him in the midst of adversity. I must confess that it has not been easy to take all the beatings that have come from those who don’t’ understand. I would like to share with you that all the wives of the members of the General Board are my friends. I have sat down with some of them and we have had a laugh or two and at other times we have cried together as we've shared our heartaches and pains. This is what makes women so special that in the midst of the storm God gives us the strength to maintain our composure as we keep a firm grasp on hope. Ingrid Betancourt so eloquently stated after her released from captivity in Columbia, "We managed to endure the impossible." Many times I have asked myself, “Does God know what he is doing? Isn’t everything controlled by him?” Nothing in this life happens by coincidence. Everything revolves around our Lord Jesus Christ, our attitude, and how we choose to deal with the problem. After being diagnosed with cancer in 1993, I was not guaranteed a certain survival rate by my doctor, but I chose to hope and believe that no matter what was waiting for me up ahead I would not give up, because I had an 11 yr. old son and a husband who would be waiting for me. I can truly say that this experience that I am now enduring has helped to build my character. For this I am grateful to those who have come into my life and have made a difference to bring out the best in me. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Dahlia Torres
Quote from AA.info
Justice here:
Hello to all my brothers and sisters in God.
I want to wish everyone a
Happy 4th of July!
For both sides, May God continue to bless us and our familys always.
And may God continue to grant us the freedom in which we live, that we all enjoy.
jose,
Powerful comment you made.
Let us never forget how we impact those families who are involved.
Have a Gread Day Everyone
:)
Happy 4th!!!!
Hi Carlos,
I'm from Union City were yu from?
Hi Klu,
how's it going?
justice, so you sing in the choir?
Hi There
Yup I'm in the choir.
How about you where are you from?
trophyman
Thanks for your reminder of the crap in the UPC. I am very well aware of the crap in my organization. However my wife and her family have been involved in the AA for probably longer than you've been alive. So, I have interest in the success and perseverance of the AA.
The "crap" I am speaking of, is the constant rhetoric between many of the people commenting on this blog. Of the 1600 comments on this blog, at least 90% of them are a constant argument over semantics of the CID and the AA Constitution. Semantics over a document which holds little value (Albeit enough to convince a judge to rule for the defendant, but he did so begrudgingly). But that's my opinion.
For your sake I will retract my statement of "crap" and replace the word with "rhetoric".
HOLA BOLA DE IGNORANTES SIGAN PERMITIENDO ARBITRIDEDARES EN SU IGLESIA.
DEF8IENDANSE,SIGAN A BALDEMAR ES EL HOMBRE MAS CAPACITADO QUE HA TENIDO SU IGLESIA.AUN Y CON SUS DEFECTOS BALDEMAR ES EL MAS INDICADO PARA ESTABLESER UNA NUEVA ORGANISACION..
ES MI OPINION..
ATT.EL PESTAYO Y QUE VIVA MEXICO BOLA DE ESTUPENDOS ENGANADOS Y DEFRAUDADOS.
Hey Pestayo ! Que onda?
cantwealljustgetalong,
Your comment of how many churches leave the AA and don't make it past 3 years isn't correct. You said "none."
Our church left the AA over 3 years ago. We are still alive and still growing. We began with 9 brethren, along with my family and have steadily grown to just over 100 in Sunday attendance. I know of two other independents (1 in Fresno and 1 in Clovis) that have been out of the AA for over 3 years as well and they are going strong.
The difference between the travesty of Bishop Baldemar Rodriguez is that he is a well known identity in the AA, so naturally he gets more attention - apart from the ghastly acts of the GB being caught for the world to see! Now everything we've known of the political actions is now open for the world to see.
I can assure you that many others have left the AA and other organizations and are doing fine. Do they all? No. But do many continue on and grow? Absolutely.
Alert Alert!
Expulsan a cuatro pastores de iglesia
Los religiosos de la Asamblea Apostólica de la Fe en Cristo Jesús se hallan en conflicto con su liderazgo por demanda
* Isaías Alvarado |
* 2008-07-04
* | La Opinión
Cuatro religiosos fueron expulsados de la congregación Asamblea Apostólica de la Fe en Cristo Jesús (AAFCJ), en supuesta represalia por una acción legal que estos emprendieron por presuntas irregularidades en el proceso de renovación de su liderazgo.
"Ahora no tengo templo, nos echaron a la calle", reclamó Baldemar Rodríguez, ahora ex obispo en San Bernardino y quien encabezó al grupo de pastores inconformes con el actuar de su propia mesa directiva.
Además de Rodríguez, fueron destituidos Saúl Ávila, pastor en Austin, Texas; Abel Torres, pastor en Midland, Texas, y Daniel Salomón, obispo en Denver, Colorado.
"Me leyeron una carta donde me estaban despidiendo del pastorado y del ministerio de la Asamblea Apostólica. Pregunté si había oportunidad para comentar o preguntar y me dijeron que no", relató el pastor Ávila.
En abril, La Opinión reportó la demanda que estos ministros interpusieron ante el Tribunal de Distrito de Rancho Cucamonga, alegando que familiares de algunos dirigentes de esa denominación religiosa fueron electos de manera irregular en la Convención Ministerial Electoral de 2006, celebrada en Long Beach.
Aunque el juez se pronunció en favor de la parte acusada a finales de 2007, el conflicto continúa en los tribunales tras haberse apelado el veredicto.
Cada cuatro años, los obispos de esta iglesia (fundada en 1930 y con una membresía de 100 mil feligreses) se reúnen para elegir a los ocho miembros que dirigen los destinos de esta congregación.
La AAFCJ cuenta con unos 600 templos en todo el país, 298 se encuentran en California. En el área de Los Ángeles se localizan 10 iglesias.
Por medio de un comunicado, la dirigencia aceptó haber "removido" a los cuatro pastores que demandaron a la AAFCJ, pero no expusieron públicamente los motivos de esta decisión.
El escrito, con fecha del 27 de junio del año en curso, subraya que la determinación del juez "no ha encontrado evidencia de irregularidades" y que hasta aquel día no les habían notificado de la apelación de este veredicto.
El artículo 36 de la constitución de la AAFCJ, referente a juicios y destituciones, resalta que en cada proceso acusatorio se debe contar con la presencia de autoridades religiosas y testigos para la defensa.
Respecto a las apelaciones, el artículo 37 indica que los ministros que consideren injusto el fallo en su contra tienen derecho a cuestionarlo ante el obispo presidente, en este caso Daniel Sánchez.
"Nuestra ley, la constitución, pide que haya juicios y que una persona es inocente hasta ser hallada culpable", recalcó Rodríguez, quien fue ordenado como pastor en 1971.
La expulsión de este religioso fue tomada como un duro golpe al grupo opositor, puesto que es uno de los líderes morales de la congregación. Rodríguez se desempeñó como obispo presidente (el cargo más alto en esa iglesia) en los períodos 1978-1986 y 1994-2002.
Un juicio formal se habría evitado para no ventilar más anomalías en las que ha incurrido su liderazgo, manifestó un pastor que prefirió guardar su identidad.
"Estoy viéndolos como personas que han perdido todo sentido de espiritualidad, de respeto a su propia iglesia, con todo y que están manejando ‘La estrategia de Jesús’, que es para hacer crecer la iglesia y la están desbaratando", reclamó.
En el blog www.apostolicassembly.info se ha venido documentado el crecimiento de la inconformidad entre la feligresía.
"Se oye decir que pronto se estará llamando abierta y directamente a todos los pastores para que se celebre una convención extraordinaria donde posiblemente se discutan las posibilidades de elegir una nueva mesa directiva general", menciona un documento anónimo.
Otra posibilidad, como la de separarse para integrar otra denominación religiosa también se escucha con fuerza.
"Hemos oído que hay muchos pastores locales a través de la nación que están inconformes con lo que está pasando, nos están llamando para ver lo que podemos hacer: si hay alguna alternativa o si se forma otra organización aparte de ésa", indicó el pastor Ávila.
Así, manifestó el obispo Rodríguez, la división actual en esa iglesia se presenta como "una posibilidad y una puerta futura".
LA OPINION
Christian Worship Center,
I agree, thank for you correcting me....what I meant to say was that there are very few churches that thrive after leaving the AA.
I generalize because I of my lack of knowing all churches or knowing all situations.
From all the churches that I have seen leave...they were all because of the Doctrinal View..not constitutional views. Usually they gain some strength with other members from the area but usually fizz out, because in most cases they were birthed out of rebellion or protest.
also they usually stay independent, meaning there was no higher authoritative above them..
in your case, it does seem that your church has found fellowship with another group. That is good, now that I know the Org I will keep them in my prayers..and consideration.
so please forgive my generalization.
english please...
not sure how many others share my view..but would it be possible for people to post in english??
your blogs do seem heartfelt and well thought out.
sorry, but yes I am a coconut.
I believe the Spanish quote was from La Opinion
...Church that have separated from the AA do not succeed...
Let me run this past you.. if you take your family and a few members and start working from the bottom up, evangelizing and get new members and new converts, that is a whole different story.
But if you form a new organization with those who have been in the Apostolic Assembly all of their lives, it is much harder to succeed because these people cannot live away from their extended family, friends and their many church acquaintances.
They will eventually leave and find their way back to the AA or another large older-established organization where they mingle and fellowship among their own.
If you check with the Gaylord Resort in Texas, already many hundreds have registered for the upcoming Convention in November. They are looking forward to socializing with old friends.
That is what I meant when I said that established churches who leave the AA and go out on their own, usually fizzle out.
Baldemar is old, tired and beat. I don't believe he can start an organization at this stage in his life. He can't say 'corre, iglesia, corre' anymore with any kind of conviction.
ESTE EMAIL ESTA EN ESPANOL Y INGELS / THIS EMAIL IS IN ENGLISH AND SPANISH
Paz de Cristo!
I am writing this letter to inform you of a matter of grave importance and also to request your prayers.
Brother Carols Ceniceros was recently admitted to the hospital, he was suffering from abdominal pains. Yesterday, he advised me that this coming week he is going to be initiating aggressive chemotherapy to treat a reoccurrence of the cancer he suffered more than a year ago.
We are requesting your prayers for him, his wife, and family We pray that God will work the miracle that pastor Ceniceros needs and that his family will be strengthened in this time of need. If you need any other information please contact me.
PS. Please forward this prayer request to your contacts via email. We need to inundate the family with our prayers.
Bishop Felipe A. Salazar
Paz de Cristo
Les escribo este correo-electrónico para pedir sus oraciones por el Pastor Carlos Ceniceros Jr. Ayer me informo que lo diagnosticaron con cáncer de nuevo. Como saben hace mas de un año atrás sufrió una operación porque le encontraron cáncer en su estomago. Esta semana que viene el va a comenzar tratamientos agresivos de cimoterapia.
Por favor les pedimos que oren para que Dios haga un milagro en el y que fortalezca a su esposa y familia, en este tiempo de necesidad.
En Cristo,
Obispo Felipe A. Salazar
Analyst:
Luz Del Mundo and Iglesia de Jesucristro are rooted from the AA and are doing fine.
There are others but I haven't had my coffee yet.
I'm sure they'll come to mind.
Anyhoots, there is life outside the AA.
I'll take "Corre Iglesia Corre"
over "How to bake a turkey" any day.
Brother Benjamin Cantu was old before he passed, but his sermons commanded attention and were deep.
Peace
Henry....that is too funny....as i remember both of those messages!!
"I'll take "Corre Iglesia Corre"
over "How to bake a turkey" any day."
what about....
"Fire -- Works!"
"Fire -- Works!"
How Sad :(
We will keep Bro. Ceniseros and his family in our prayers, I will forward this to my fam and friends.
My great respects for him, Our prayers are that God heals him and continues to bless his family.
in respect to the comments made above:
Such a sad generalization, and worse, one not backed by actual facts and statistics. ApostolicAnalyst merely speaks from hearsay. What he says is nothing more than an occasional gas discharge from his posterior. :)
Well, BR is an older gentleman, true. But anyone that speaks to the man can tell he is far from beat. And he has close to 30 young people standing firmly behind him, and a congregation of almost 200 signed registered members. More soon to come ;).
So Mr Analyst, please respect the intelligence of the good people in this forum. When you pass information off as facts, please cite your sources and don't make up fake statistics.
Remember the saying:
"It is better to be SILENT, and merely be THOUGHT a fool, than to SPEAK and REMOVE ALL DOUBT"
:)
"Corre, Iglesia, Corre" indeed.
Pestayo,
Me Gusta su forma de hablar!
Sigua escribiendolos.
Ocupamos mas voces como la suya.
Carlos
carlos...don't forget...
"Fire -- Works!"
"Fire -- Works!"
"Fire -- Works!"
"Fire -- Works!"
"Fire -- Works!"
I yes, I do agree with the analyst, most churches that break away do end in total dismay. but those are the ones that stay independent (in other words...no accountability). Also, usually ones that leave because of doctrinal view such has holiness, trinity, etc.
Those those break due to "constitutional" view and do get sync'd with another Oneness Organization...they have a higher rate of success. I think that is evident with Community Worship Center's post, a few posts ago.
what you should be concerned with is that BR stood for all the principles that general board is currently benefiting from while he was in office. Now, all of a sudden he wants to question them??
that does not make sense to me...The only thing that could make sense is that what ultimately happened is that he wanted back on the board, and he too was "rejected" by the CID (excuse my choice of words).
For the sake of them membership that has left with him...I do pray that there is a plan to receive a covering/acountability from another Org or if you start a new Org that would be good too.
I guess I am just against churches trying to stand alone..we all need fellowship.
so know that there was a lot of "bashing" of the GB members, on this blog but thankfully cooler heads have prevailed.
so I'll ask a question....
I think that we all can kinda guess what BR is going to do...any word on the other 3 plaintifs?
I know that there were a lot people who were rejoicing because the AA got served when they went lock the building in TX...
I know that there as been some rumors as to the position of the building in Denver...
I know that Brother Avila has been courting an ex-UPC Mega Church in Austin that still practices Holiness.
does anyone know the status of the property/congregations/pastors of the other 3?
Whenwillitend said...
to Canwealljustgetalong
I am amazed at Christian Worhip Center's comments on independent churches pulling away from the AA and thriving. Christian Worship makes every attempt to give the impression God has blessed them so much which is why they've grown from about 9 to over 100 on Sunday services; Not true!
First of all, CWC didn't start with 9, they started with about 20which were stolen from the church the pastor was thrown out of by the AA for his indiscretions. The pastor then went on to steal as many members from neighboring AA churches in the area where much of their growth has come from. Every rebel who couldn't cut it in the AA was quickly promised an pastorhip title for his membership at CWC. Added to that, every member was told everything was optional and any and all standards of holiness were up to their personal conviction. Their church theme of "Come As You Are" apparently should be changed to "Do As You Please".
While I do not doubt that independent churches can in fact make it on their own, that ususally comes when the separation comes via doctrinal differences and not sin and rebellion.
Whenwillitend said...
to Canwealljustgetalong
I am amazed at Christian Worhip Center's comments on independent churches pulling away from the AA and thriving. Christian Worship makes every attempt to give the impression God has blessed them so much which is why they've grown from about 9 to over 100 on Sunday services; Not true!
First of all, CWC didn't start with 9, they started with about 20which were stolen from the church the pastor was thrown out of by the AA for his indiscretions. The pastor then went on to steal as many members from neighboring AA churches in the area where much of their growth has come from. Every rebel who couldn't cut it in the AA was quickly promised an pastorhip title for his membership at CWC. Added to that, every member was told everything was optional and any and all standards of holiness were up to their personal conviction. Their church theme of "Come As You Are" apparently should be changed to "Do As You Please".
While I do not doubt that independent churches can in fact make it on their own, that ususally comes when the separation comes via doctrinal differences and not sin and rebellion.
Hola a todos.mi estimado lector de este blog,plaser para mi poder saber que ya areglaron su situacion del mail.
Al Bueno al malo y al feo.Saludos.
dejenme ver primero habersi no me pide mas trampas este cuate.creo que me vetaron nose porque si estamnos en un blog Publico.
Saludos a los cuates de la Opinion de los angeles.pero que digan todos la verdad hombre.
Mi estimado Sanche No se cobarde Hable de su situacion.
lo peor que pudo haser es haber sacado a baldemar de su Iglesia.
creo que es la persona mas capacitada y carismatica de su denominacion.saludos a todos.
Mi estimado Rodriguez baldemar habra los ojos, Usted tienene muchisima carisma y muchos Amigos y enemigos suyos estand e su lado.
Aprobeche la situaccion .ademas usted es una persona Integra..De Avila Dudo Muchisimo tiene sus calaveritas como usted tambiewn pero pues en este caso usted es la persona indicada para Otra organisacion sin requisitos simplemente con acuerdos y es todo..
echele ganas..Att El Pestayo y que viva Mexico...
Hola a todos.mi estimado lector de este blog,plaser para mi poder saber que ya areglaron su situacion del mail.
Al Bueno al malo y al feo.Saludos.
dejenme ver primero habersi no me pide mas trampas este cuate.creo que me vetaron nose porque si estamnos en un blog Publico.
Saludos a los cuates de la Opinion de los angeles.pero que digan todos la verdad hombre.
Mi estimado Sanche No se cobarde Hable de su situacion.
lo peor que pudo haser es haber sacado a baldemar de su Iglesia.
creo que es la persona mas capacitada y carismatica de su denominacion.saludos a todos.
Mi estimado Rodriguez baldemar habra los ojos, Usted tienene muchisima carisma y muchos Amigos y enemigos suyos estand e su lado.
Aprobeche la situaccion .ademas usted es una persona Integra..De Avila Dudo Muchisimo tiene sus calaveritas como usted tambiewn pero pues en este caso usted es la persona indicada para Otra organisacion sin requisitos simplemente con acuerdos y es todo..
echele ganas..Att El Pestayo y que viva Mexico...
Does anyone know whats happened to Bishop Juahall? Anyway, I am from LA District. I have seen these things from near and far and it is sadening to say the least.
LA District praying.....
PTL
Does any1 know who actually got the votes at the 2006 elections
Pacheco got TWO!!!
Nuevamente escribo a todos, ya que esta pagina de repente me da dos y luego me los quita esta mas loca que los lideres de la AA..
Bueno Senores,hablar de sanches y toda la clica es lo peor;
Mejor algo mas productivo,olvidense de quien tiene la razon solo ponganse a pensar destituyeron a un berdadero lider y no digo porque conosca a rodruiguez.sino por lo que he leido e Investigado..
Bueno son muchisimos hombres que han pagado el precio.Mendoza..Salomon.Abel Torres.Avila..VIllegas..Rodarte.Arellano.y un monton ya dejense de lamentar y demandas.mejor ponganse a actuar y creser senores.
cada partido politico tiene sus criterios y en esta ocacion los malos en este caso Baldemar.Mendoza.Rodarte.Villegas.Avila.Torez.Salomon.Etc Etc..Etc...
Bueno ay los dejo
QUE VIVA MEXICO..ATT EL PESTAYO
FACTSONLY1
on 7/3, you said the following:
. You and all the people that made a fuss, rebelled against all authority established by God. Against the Elder who was there and was elected by majority of the pastors in the Sector, against the Bishop who was there and elected by the District pastors, Against the Bishop President who was there and was elected by the majority of the pastors in the assembly. You rebelled against them and disrespected them. Following someone who also rebelled.
2. Your video is full of lies: You say you were kicked out but the video shows you and everyone who left walked out on their own. (if you would have put away the camera you could stay there but chose not to).
3. You say you were kicked out of a service when this was a meeting for members only.
4. You’re astonished that they asked non baptized people to leave, how dumb to expect souls to be in a meeting where the pastor is going to be removed.
5. In your video Baldemar Rodriguez said he was removed for asking a question, that’s a lie, he was removed for suing the assembly and rebelling against authority.
6. In your video someone said that most of the people that stayed was because they were offered positions or monetary compensation. This is a lie from hell.
7. In your video one of the Rodriguez girls said all the people that stayed, “none of them pay their tithes” this is another lie from hell.
8. Another man insulted the pastors calling them cowards, no where in the Bible does any Christian or godly person insult their authority even if authority was wrong (which I’m not saying they were wrong in this case). On the contrary the Bible teaches that if you resist authority you resist God.
9. How disgusting when a former Dorca’s District Pres. disrespects a minister of God by calling him a traitor and you tell her to repeat it.
10. In the video you harass decent people coming in the meeting to hear what was to be said.
You proud because you say you showed the truth but it shows lies and rebellion.
Facts only1,
interesting choice of name... I'll address that later.
1) That authority was NOT established by God. It was established by the CID. They themselves admit to it. Just like the Sanhedrin was said to be there for GOD, in the same likeness are they.
2)Since your retention skills are remedial, i will remind that we were INDEED kicked out.
its quite simple. THE VIDEO DOES NOT LIE. Just go to the 2nd video, to 1:48
DARE TO CHALLENGE THE FACTS.
3) I don't about you, but i was praising God, and he was there in the beginning. Whatever your intentions were, well God Bless You. He Forgives Liars, and people who are willfully blinded. Jusdt a suggestion.
4) 1st of all, THERE WERE NO SOULS THERE THAT NIGHT. Lugo assumed skotty was a soul, and made that command accordingly Seriously, what did he have to hide?
and 2nd, souls regularly come on wednesdays. Who is lugo to kick them out. THEY HAVE NO IDEA OF THE CORRUPTION THAT HAPPENS IN THE ASSEMBLY. they came to hear the word of God and they would have been thrown out. tsk tsk tsk. isn't one of the AA objectives: "evangelize the world?"
5) BR did indeed ask a question. He dared to stand up to the corruption. He rebuked the GB for rebelling against the authority of God.
6) i have a question for you to address your 5th point. WHO CALLED THE BISHOP ABOUT THE PIANO? AND Isn't a coincidence that the bishop called Zapata JUST to ask about the PIANO?? Thats the REAL lie from hell. Too bad they played him like a fiddle.
7) in respect to the FACT that you don't tithes, let me ask you another question...
HOW MUCH DID YOU COLLECT IN OFFERING AND TITHES LAST SUNDAY?
Don't tell me you bought all that new equipment with donations. That's another lie from hell.
8) Jesus openly rebuked th sanhedrin that strayed, as did peter, paul, and all the apostles. we are APOSTOLIC, right? Lugo and sanchez were merely called out for what they were: COWARDS
9) Sis Diane is not encouraged to repeat the traitor statement. Bro Salazar is asked to repeat HIS statement. You have to have a good ear but it is there, on camera. AGAIN, the video does not lie. You do.
10) Harassment, huh? SHOW ME.
SERIOUSLY, maybe you should be more grateful to what pastor for you... if you are who i think you are... IT'S BEEN ALOT.
I think the biggest coward is APWC. He once said APWC means A Pastor Who Cares, but now he is no more than A Pastor Who is a Coward. He reminds me of a backslidden Saul.
Onguard
whenwillitend...
what do you mean by indiscretions?
also, i think instead of saying churches separate because of sin and rebellion...its better to say that they start out of "protest" :)
You keep asking for proof of the things that BR did to pastors while he was President all those many years.
I agree with 'cantwejustgetalong' that there are plenty of pastors who can remember BR reign.
Why do you think that the Pastors are all afraid? Do you think that they just learned to be afraid of the Board that came to be in 2006? NO!!!
They learned fear from Baldemar. The Pastors under his reign lived in the same terror that they do under this new GB.
This kind of evil that comes from the administration of the AA is not new with Sanchez, he had a good teacher.
What BR did now was to bite the hands that made him rich-- the hefty salaries, the 'love' offerings, the education that the AA paid for, THEN HE SUES...and he may go back and appeal. He isn't done yet.
On another note....
My question is where are the votes or the proof about the famous 2 votes? How can we prove there were only 2 votes for Eddie? How can we prove that there were 400 votes for another person? Where are the ballots? Where is the proof?
apostolicanalyst said...
My question is where are the votes or the proof about the famous 2 votes? How can we prove there were only 2 votes for Eddie?
Here's part of you answer (from AA.info A.Torres - vote counter):
"In my opinion, the first injustice at the elections was committed when we voted for the position of the General Secretary. Brother Daniel Solomon received the majority of the votes, but to our surprise, the President of the Elections announced that the candidates were Eduardo Pacheco, I believe it was also Joel Montes, and Lupe Zuñiga. Brother Pacheco only received 2 votes as did Brother Lupe Zúñiga. If I remember correctly, Brother Joel Montes received 3 or 4 votes. I find it very difficult to understand why Brother Daniel Solomon was disqualified when he had been a member of the outgoing General Board. I have problems understanding why he was so suddenly disqualified. I consider such actions as unjust due to the fact that he was never asked to resign while he occupied the position of General Secretary, nor was it ever explained to why he did not qualify to be a candidate."
Saludos a Todos,sorpresa a Todos como se van dando las cosas no.sobre comentarios a Balde mar Rodriguez.
Bueno segun el video fue un atropeyo y Punto.Ademas inexperiencia de los disque lideres electos Por Dios JaJa Ja.CReo que el no elige Ignorantes ante una situacion como esta.
Me recuerdo de Salomon al momento de tomar la decicion con las dos Mujeres por el Hijo.pero eso paso a la historia..
Sobre mendoza.que esta superbien,pero lo dejaron sin su dinero de tantos anos a la Asamblea.Fue rector de colegio exelente maestro.vive la realidad de la vida. y vive lo que ensena.segunh comentarios de varios estudiantes que estan en la actualidad. condicipulos de El.
Regresando ma sus lideres denles las tres del bario senores talves asi aprendan ha haser decisiones Corectas y con dialogo,pobrecitos de los miembros de todas sus Iglesias.que todavia viven con miedo temor y pabor;degenme decirles que Dios el dios de Nosotros los catolicos,ustedes los cristianos.es Amor.
Entre nosotros los catolicos cometemos pecados con la mente,cuerpo,y de muchas formas Bamos nos confesamos con el cura y ya todo listo.pero con ustedes cometen algun eror y ya se Torcieron de por vida .los descomulgan..ponen a prueba y los anos de su servicio qu8e donde quedaron. El Perdon.La concideracion y demas cosas.Agan sus comentarios,y sus propuestas quien les gustaria para que sea el lider de la Organisacion Independiente.
Baldemar...Mendoza...Abel Torrez..Salvador Rodarte..El Obispo Salomon DEstituido..Saul Avila..Salvador Villegas..Que Gallo les Gusta.Baldemar ...Mendoza..Rodarte.Torres.Pero si ningunos REglamentos de Lana..
Ya que es el principal enemigo de los lideres..
ademas tengo entendido que los tres etan solteros o no se que Onda.pero pos ya tienen mayor capacidad y educacion.universitaria los tres.. Avila es un alumno con politica un poco mas sucia ya que a su propio Concuno le jugo algo chueco..pos asi dice la historia de avila. ami no me lo crean..Saludos Muchachos Desde el estado de Guerrero Att el Pestayo
There are only a few real debaters on this blog and the rest are not a challenge.
I came across this scripture the other day while meditating, just thought I'd share it with you all.
II Kings 22 & 23
Pestayo:
Ya banate no, porque apestas a purgatorio! Calmado, nomas en forma de broma!
Pestayo:
Ya banate no, porque apestas a purgatorio! Calmado, nomas en forma de broma!
Pestayo:
Ya banate no, porque apestas a purgatorio! Calmado, nomas en forma de broma!
FACTSONLY1
on 7/3, you said the following:
. You and all the people that made a fuss, rebelled against all authority established by God. Against the Elder who was there and was elected by majority of the pastors in the Sector, against the Bishop who was there and elected by the District pastors, Against the Bishop President who was there and was elected by the majority of the pastors in the assembly. You rebelled against them and disrespected them. Following someone who also rebelled.
2. Your video is full of lies: You say you were kicked out but the video shows you and everyone who left walked out on their own. (if you would have put away the camera you could stay there but chose not to).
3. You say you were kicked out of a service when this was a meeting for members only.
4. You’re astonished that they asked non baptized people to leave, how dumb to expect souls to be in a meeting where the pastor is going to be removed.
5. In your video Baldemar Rodriguez said he was removed for asking a question, that’s a lie, he was removed for suing the assembly and rebelling against authority.
6. In your video someone said that most of the people that stayed was because they were offered positions or monetary compensation. This is a lie from hell.
7. In your video one of the Rodriguez girls said all the people that stayed, “none of them pay their tithes” this is another lie from hell.
8. Another man insulted the pastors calling them cowards, no where in the Bible does any Christian or godly person insult their authority even if authority was wrong (which I’m not saying they were wrong in this case). On the contrary the Bible teaches that if you resist authority you resist God.
9. How disgusting when a former Dorca’s District Pres. disrespects a minister of God by calling him a traitor and you tell her to repeat it.
10. In the video you harass decent people coming in the meeting to hear what was to be said.
You proud because you say you showed the truth but it shows lies and rebellion.
Facts only1,
interesting choice of name... I'll address that later.
1) That authority was NOT established by God. It was established by the CID. They themselves admit to it. Just like the Sanhedrin was said to be there for GOD, in the same likeness are they.
2)Since your retention skills are remedial to say the least, i will remind that we were INDEED kicked out.
its quite simple. THE VIDEO DOES NOT LIE. Just go to the 2nd video, to 1:48
DARE TO CHALLENGE THE FACTS.
3) I don't know about you, but i was praising God, and he was there in the beginning. Whatever your intentions were, well God Bless You. He Forgives Liars, and people who are willfully blinded. Just a suggestion.
4) 1st of all, THERE WERE NO SOULS THERE THAT NIGHT. Lugo assumed skotty was a soul, and made that command accordingly Seriously, what did he have to hide?
and 2nd, souls regularly come on wednesdays. Who is lugo to kick them out. THEY HAVE NO IDEA OF THE CORRUPTION THAT HAPPENS IN THE ASSEMBLY. they came to hear the word of God and they would have been thrown out. tsk tsk tsk. isn't one of the AA objectives: "evangelize the world?" I guess they're to focused on "equip Fontana, i mean the church"
5) BR did indeed ask a question. He dared to stand up to the corruption. He rebuked the GB for rebelling against the authority of God.
6) i have a question for you to address your 6th point. WHO CALLED THE BISHOP ABOUT THE PIANO? AND Isn't a coincidence that the bishop called Zapata JUST to ask about the PIANO?? Thats the REAL lie from hell. Too bad they played him like a fiddle.
7) in respect to the FACT that you don't tithes, let me ask you another question...
HOW MUCH DID YOU COLLECT IN OFFERING AND TITHES LAST SUNDAY?
Don't tell me you bought all that new equipment with donations. That's another lie from hell.
8) Jesus openly rebuked th sanhedrin that strayed, as did peter, paul, and all the apostles. we are APOSTOLIC, right? Lugo and sanchez were merely called out for what they were: COWARDS
9) Sis Diane is not encouraged to repeat the traitor statement. Bro Salazar is asked to repeat HIS statement. You have to have a good ear but it is there, on camera. AGAIN, the video does not lie. You do.
10) Harassment, huh? SHOW ME.
SERIOUSLY, maybe you should be more grateful to what pastor has done for you... if you are who i think you are... IT'S BEEN ALOT.
Pestayo:
Ya banate no, porque apestas a purgatorio! Calmado, nomas en forma de broma!
StrongBeliever
Your comment:
"Do you seriously think there will be something to gain or accomplish?"
Yeah, it would be a great accomplishment if we could get the crooks who created this mess out of office.
Food for thought:
California Penal Code 422
Any person who willfully threatens to commit a crime which
will result in death or great bodily injury to another person, with the specific intent that the statement, made verbally, in writing, or by means of an electronic communication device, is to be taken as a threat, even if there is no intent of actually carrying it out, which, on its face and under the circumstances in which it is made, is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to
convey to the person threatened, a gravity of purpose and an
immediate prospect of execution of the threat, and thereby causes
that person reasonably to be in sustained fear for his or her own
safety or for his or her immediate family's safety, shall be punished
by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed one year, or by
imprisonment in the state prison.
Who made threats? What did I miss?
Henry
The following threats were made to the videographer:
"
snoopyd said...
Skotty,
I got a good song for u
This is from the True Enemy
I'm rollin' thunder, pourin' rain
I'm comin' on like a hurricane
White lightnin's flashin' across the sky
You're only young, but you're gonna die!
Won't take no prisoners
Won't spare no lives
Nobody's puttin' up a fight
I got my Bell I'm gonna take you to Hell
I'm gonna get you
Yeah get YOU!
Y'all might be playing, but the devil ain't playin' around. Let's not forget who the true enemy is, Brothers.
July 3, 2008 11:34 AM"
AND
"A.S.Soldier said...
Careful Skotty, there's plenty of faithful members left. Don't let me find you.
July 1, 2008 11:30 PM
A.S.Soldier said...
Better hope we dont find you skotty. Sum1 that knows who's been holding the camera's gonna talk.
July 1, 2008 11:31 PM"
Oh...
That sounds like "Terrorist Threats". Notify the plakas.
What are plakas? Police?
If so, they were already notified and are investigating this blog.
so know that there was a lot of "bashing" of the GB members, on this blog but thankfully cooler heads have prevailed.
so I'll ask a question....
I think that we all can kinda guess what BR is going to do...any word on the other 3 plaintifs?
I know that there were a lot people who were rejoicing because the AA got served when they went lock the building in TX...
I know that there as been some rumors as to the position of the building in Denver...
I know that Brother Avila has been courting an ex-UPC Mega Church in Austin that still practices Holiness.
does anyone know the status of the property/congregations/pastors of the other 3?
Godisjust
What are plakas? Police?
If so, they were already notified and are investigating this blog.
July 6, 2008 9:11 PM
Are you police?
Hey M.gallegos my bro just wanna say that you are so freakin awesome for standind up for what you know is right. As for the GB Ill pray for you all 4 sho!!!!!!!!!
lol Maybe Sanchez wants to hire those Life Line "Ushers" to monitor the blogs.
Just kidding Isaac! lol
Just having flashbacks to the old days.
LMfreekingAO!! The AA used to hire X-Cons and parolees to collect Convention Ofrendas and patrol the hotel and convention lobby.
What were we thinking? lol
How did it go at @astor Baldamars service .. And for the GB we're still praying so they could change their ways of doing thins , specially for our beloved Bishop President, it was really sad to how he just sat back to watch Potato face bishop Lugo do his dirty work,,,I can't believe the kind of hart Daniel Sanchez has, and ICan't believe they are working on the strategy to bring in new souls, when the oneswekre kicking out the ones that aare here already
Response to Carlos
1. You say authority was established by CID. How ignorant! Daniel Sanchez received overwhelming votes by the pastors of the Assembly to become Bishop President. There is no controversy about that. Bishop Lugo also received overwhelming votes at the District level to become bishop of the District (the CID didn’t even come into play). And also Ben Guerra received majority votes to become Elder. They’re the authority, all elected by the pastors. Baldemar Rodriguez was there at District convention and never contested the election of District Bishop and Elder. He recognized they were his authorities since he attended district and sector meetings for months. But of curse you’re too ignorant to know all this.
Romans 13:1-2
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
2. I reviewed 2nd video 1:48 and basically you were given a choice, either comply with order take out the camera or you would have to leave. YOU chose not to put the camera away, it was your choice. Besides tell me at what point of the video does it show you being ushered out? On the contrary you saw your pastor walk out so you walked out. You must be blind not to see that.
3. On your third point I have the same advise for you, God forgives liars if they repent. And so far no one has contested the biggest lie of the video “that the reason people that stayed at the meeting was because they received monetary compensation or positions”. What a lie from Hell. That’s why this video is trash because of the lies.
4. On your 4th ,point once again, only an ignorant person would see fit for a soul to be at a members meeting where the pastor is being removed. Imagine the confusion for a soul to see the S.B. members yelling and disrespecting Bishop Lugo and then seen the former pastor walk out. What a disgrace.
5. On your 5th point you said BR stood up and rebuked the Board Members. The only problem is you shouldn’t rebuke someone unless you have authority over them as the sons of Sceva found out (Acts 19:15-16). I ask you who got rebuked now the GB or BR.
6. On your 6th point this question doesn’t make sense to me. You obviously think I’m some one else. You think too much of yourself thinking you are going to know who I am from reading one posting. How old are you?
7. On your 7th point, again, what are you talking about? But you must be referring to my 7th point which is easy to prove. It was said that “none of the people that stayed at the meeting paid their tithes”. In order to prove that this statement by the Rodriguez girl was a lie I just have to prove that a couple of people that stayed did pay their tithes. The ministers and deacons that stayed at the meeting have to pay their tithes or else they can’t get a credential. So either they paid their tithes or BR lied when he signed their annual application to get their credentials.
8. On your 8th point, you obviously don’t read the Bible much. First of all Jesus had all the authority of God (he is God), but he never insulted the Sanhedrin and you are not Jesus. As far as the apostles insulting the Sanhedrin show me where? On the contrary on one occasion Paul insulted the High Priest because he did not know he was the high priest but once he found out he was the High Priest he retracted and quoted a scripture of the old testament “I did not know, brothers, that he was the high priest, for it is written, ‘You shall not speak evil of a ruler of your people. Acts 23:4
Paul insulted him because he did not know he was the High Priest, but you insult the Leader of the Apostolic Assembly and the Bishop of the District because you’re ignorant of the scriptures.
9. On your 9th point that’s your own interpretation but as far as Diane Rodriguez insulting an ordained minister, that BR himself anointed and laid hands at the convention, is a shameful act.
10. As far as the harassment don’t be blind look at video #2 7:51
SERIOUSLY I have a suggestion for you, Carlos, think before you speak.
Henry, and Godisjust
On July 3, 2008 1:12 AM Skotty will show you said:
"I'm Gonna start working on another vid... n e suggestions for songs??
i was thinking dirty deeds done dirt cheap...(By AC/DC. Snoopyd's clarification)
but idk... lol
too many ppl were freaked out Bout the lux aeterna song... which is wierd... but w.e
n e suggestions?"
On July 3, 2008 11:34 AM I responded to Skotty’s question about suggestions with the following
"snoopyd said...
Skotty,
I got a good song for u
This is from the True Enemy
I'm rollin' thunder, pourin' rain
I'm comin' on like a hurricane
White lightnin's flashin' across the sky
You're only young, but you're gonna die!
Won't take no prisoners Won't spare no lives
Nobody's puttin' up a fight
I got my Bell I'm gonna take you to Hell
I'm gonna get you! Yeah get YOU!
Y'all might be playing, but the devil ain't playin' around. Let's not forget who the true enemy is, Brothers."
If you can read beyond the 6th grade level, you can tell that this isn’t a death threat. It' the lyrics to another AC/DC song, "Hell's Bells" and it's written by the composer as a message from the devil. A little something I used to listen to in my sinner days.
I posted these lyrics as a simple reminder that the devil isn’t taking any prisoners. He’s trying to use this issue as a device to divide the saints and to take their focus off the real enemy, himself. He wants us to pit ourselves against each other, much like godisjust has decided to pit himself against a fellow member from his local church, instead of trying to engage in productive, meaningful conversation that could actually lead to stronger unity and some kind of resolution at the next convention.
However, I gotta give props to godisjust for his attempt at Nancy-Grace-like sensationalism. Terrorist threats! Gimme a break, Bro!
There is a lot of hurt and some bitter people because BR was excommunicated. Which it is sad, and I think it’s unfortunate, but think about it.
BR was one of the most experienced pastors in the Assembly and I think very intelligent. So when he decided to sue the Assembly he knew the risk he was taking. If he would have won, he would have been the hero of the day for taking out the GB. He would also have the opportunity to be elected Bishop President since in their law suit they were demanding for new elections to take place and new board be elected on “votes only” and in so doing he could run again since that would take care of the limitation of two term limits required by the constitution. And if President he would have probably taken away the pastorship of the current GB. It just so happens that God didn’t allow it to go that way. So if he took the big risk to gain all or loose all, then people should not be so bitter and upset. I don’t have a problem with him leaving the Assembly and continuing to work as a pastor or even starting another denomination, my problem is the way he and some of the former SB member left. The way they behaved and insulted our leaders is shameful. They have the right to follow BR but if you are going to leave than just leave and quit trying to harm the Apostolic Assembly.
Strong Believer in God:
Your pastor is so right.
I need a little bit of guidance from you, as I would like know how to find out where my local church stands united.
It is truly difficult to ask a pastor where he stands on such a divisive issue.
Did your pastor address the congregation as a whole, or did he speak to you individually?
Did he disclose where he would like the church to stand on this issue, or was his admonition more of a warning?
Are the members of your church having an open discussion on this issue, or is it more of a person to person confidential discussion as it is in most local churches?
Thank you.
God Bless You.
Godisjust:
By sharing 2 Kings 22-23 are you trying to suggest that the GB is just like the pagan priests who worshipped idols?
You're going out on a limb there, Buddy.
It's one thing to worship idols, and another thing to diss somebody who has given the best years of his life to the assembly.
You still haven't answered my question regarding the fundamentals of the old church that you would like to see in the 21st Century church.
I guarantee you, the old church would never tolerate a sister getting brash with an ordained minister. They wouldn't tolerate ANYONE getting brave with a minister.
The old church taught blind loyalty and unquestioning obedience. That was all that was required to be a minister.
The old church preached that going bowling and hitting a little round ball into a hole on the side of a table was a sin.
The old church taught that a woman who wore high heels was a sinner.
The old church oppressed women.
You show me something that is fundamental TO THE SCRIPTURES and fundamental TO SALVATION that the old church taught that is not taught by the Apostolic Church today, and I'll show you a church that doesn't belong to the Apostolic Assembly.
Dios te Bendiga
factsonly1:
Frankly, I don't like the idea of any of the pastors who were excommunicated starting a new organization, simply because they would just duplicate the one that they helped usher in which ushered them out.
If anyone needs to start a new organization, it's the x or y generation. I would say the people in the x generation who never bought into the current admin (technically, Benji Guerra, God bless his heart, is a Gen-Xer), and the y generation.
Generation X & Y Apostolics believe in Democracy, that all men are created equal, and in God given rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Previous generations of Apostolics believe in Theocracy and God given rights to a few individuals called of God to decide what's right for everybody else.
I think it would be best for everyone in the AA if those pastors who were excommunicated were granted communion immediately, or if they remained independent. The world doesn't need two identical Apostolic Assemblies.
God Bless You.
Snoopyd
I'm sorry I offended you or made you upset. However, I did not share that scripture due to the situation, I shared it because I get a daily verse and devotional!That was just the scripture for the day! If it hit home, I don't know what to tell you.
P.S. The verse for today is:
Oh, that we might know the Lord! Let us press on to know him. Then he will respond to us as surely as the arrival of dawn or the coming of rains in early spring.
Hosea 6:3 NLT
My pastor, only addressed it to the Ministry/Wifes....
For obvious reasons he did not address it during a sunday service..nor did address it to the members..as a complete body.
He chose not to address it to the members because there are a few that do not give tithes and therefore their foundation of Doctrine is already tainted. And this type of information is only for the ones who are strong in their faith.
He told us (because he is good friends with a few GB members..and if he needed a question answered he would ask his friends.
He then told us (as ministry) that if any of us had specific questions to facts (not opinions) that he would answer.
He also said not to believe anything you read online. (hehe) as this is only 1/4 of the truth.
I believe that the GB will be revealing all of their doing this week to the bishops and pastors on either Thursday or Friday.
I recently heard another side. All this time the public thought has been that the Plaintiffs simply desired a re-election, to which the GB denied. Hence, the lawsuit. Well, apprently the GB suggested to the Platiffs to take it to the Pastors as what to do, to which the Plaitiffs denied and proceeded with the suit.
YoungPreacher said...
I recently heard another side.(must be the dark side) . . . apprently the GB suggested to the Platiffs to take it to the Pastors as what to do . . .
Are you from Comedy Central? Take it to the Pastors?
Before Sanchez took Art's manhood, Art tried to do what you described.
Here's an excerpt from Art Tafoya's letter dated April 18, 2007:
"Since our documents were sent to the entire Honorable General Board and Episcopal Body, I pray the same opportunity for me to personally read these answers to the aforementioned joint body later on today at our extraordinary meeting as you discuss the 2006 elections of the Honorable General Board as your March 21, 2007 letter of convocation states. We regret you denying our request to have the outgoing Honorable Board Members and all the electoral staff of this referenced convention present today (they were directly or indirectly involved in this election process) to speak and answer questions. Now we have no other recourse but to speak for ourselves and try to find answers as well."
And another excerpt July 15, 2007:
"On the day of the extra ordinary joint Episcopal and Honorable General Board meeting to discuss the 2006 elections (April 18, 2007), I sincerely felt humiliation and was mocked by the Honorable General Board. Power was abused to control what was to be said and what information was given out to the bishops before a vote was taken. You (general board) never gave me an opportunity to present the requested 2006 election violations before the entire joint body present there. Yet, a vote of confidence was taken in that meeting concerning the 2006 elections.
In this same meeting you granted each Bishop five minuets to speak, I chose to use my five minuets to pass out the information you (the Honorable General Board) had requested of me stating the violations of the 2006 elections to each District Supervisor. I was (publicly) not allowed to disburse my document per the Bishop President and Bishop Vice-President directive. However, I was informed by both that I could pass out this information after the meeting was adjourned. I could not believe the unfolding of events during said meeting in which my voice was silenced.
As I humbly stated in my document dated April 18, 2007, I wanted to take care of business in house…, “it is (was) our utmost desire to handle this dilemma in house (Article 39) with the fear of the Lord and with sincere humility. And “our concern was what will take place once the convention of pastors becomes aware of these abnormalities”. "
AND ask any pastor present at the 2007 convention what happened when the Plaintiffs tried to speak up!
cantwejustgetalong said...
My pastor, only addressed it to the Ministry/Wifes....
He then told us (as ministry) that if any of us had specific questions to facts (not opinions) that he would answer.
So, what questions did you ask your pastor?
1) Were you at the elections
2) Did you vote for any of the GB members? (1st vote)
3) When did you sense there was something wrong? 1st vote, runoff vote, presentation of 2006 board?
4) Why do they (GB) feel justified with the results of the election?
a) with a person of questionable integrity (Pacheco)
b) with the obvious exclusion of our most educated previous GB member (Fortino)
5) How would you correct the situation
6) Will you stand up for justice
any word on Modesto?
A couple of questions to refresh my memory.
1. Who was on the 2006 "Calificadora"?
2. What are the "qualifications"
to get a CID Approval?
3. Who selected the
2006 "Calificadora"?
Oh, one more question.
Is it possible that a minister can be qualified to hold and currently holds a pastorship yet still not be qualified by the "Calificadora" to have "CID Approval"?
What are example of circumstances that a pastor would be qualified to serve the AA as pastor but not have a passable CID?
Henry, I can answer # 2 - You must be a relative or good friend of Daniel Sanchez or Samuel Valverde.
To Henry:
With all the comments and statements you make on this blog I would have figured you would know the answers to your questions.
You give too much emphasis to the CID. Have you read it? Since you keep mentioning it.
The CID is just one more document the qualifying board uses. It is not all they use. I don't even think it's used at the District level and it's surely not used to approve a pastor.
Can someone qualify to be a pastor and not qualify to be in GB, of course.
Some pastors don't have the experience or leadership to lead other pastors or organization.
I can understand that the AA wants pastors with substantial experience on the gb. not to mention theological training.
But what about church membership?
I know there are members of the GB that only have 50 members,incuding children. I'm not saying that to bash.
I'll get pics and videos to skotty to post.
Factsonly1:
I read it. However, the only copy I have come accross is in spanish. Even though, it appears vague.
However, I am open to review an English version.
More than open, eager.
To Snoopy D:
No disrespect but,
you speak of a church organization been built on the foundation of democracy but the bible doesn't support your view.
In the book of Revelations out of the seven churches mentioned of Asia Minor the one in worst spiritual condition is Laodicea. It is a sinful lukewarm church, rich in money but poor spiritually. This church received the strongest rebuke of Jesus. Rev. 3:14
Well guess what Laodicea means: It means people rule or in other words DEMOCRAY.
On the other point,
I'm not suggesting that BR start a new organization but if he did o well, as long as he or anyone else leaves or resigns and not continue to bash the Assembly.
Pre-CID English
Requirements to be GB Members
To Henry:
On this point I agree, pastors should work hard to obtain more theological training.
And it should be a requirement for new pastors.
fedupwithdeceipt said...
YoungPreacher said...
I recently heard another side.(must be the dark side) . . . apprently the GB suggested to the Platiffs to take it to the Pastors as what to do . . .
Are you from Comedy Central? Take it to the Pastors?
Before Sanchez took Art's manhood, Art tried to do what you described.
I am not choosing any side, I just stated the knowledge bacause the person I heard it from in part of a committee on the GB.
I don't know of any current BM that pastors a membership of 50 except for Art Espinoza who is not pastoring at this time.
According to research having or not having theoligal training is not a factor in church growth.
In my town I know a well known baptist pastor who has a degree in theology and only has 35 members in all.
WELL REGARDLESS IF ART ESPINOSA IS A PASTOR NOW OR NOT, THE TRUTH IS THAT HE DID ONLY HAVE LESS THAN 50 MEMBERS IN THE PALO ALTO CHURCH..
HE FELT SO DISAPOINTED OF PASTORING THAT LITTLE CHURCH THAT HE DECIDED TO GO TO TEXAS AND JUST WAIT FOR ONE OF THE BIG CHURCHES THAT WAS GOING TO COME AVAILABLE..YOU GUYS REALLY DON'T GET IT, HOW THEY PLAN ALL THIS FOR THEIR BENEFIT..NOW WHEN EVER THEY INSTALL ESPINOSA AT A BIG CHURCH IN TEXAS,ALL THE GB GOTTA SAY IS HE IS THE BEST QUALIFY FOR THE POSITION SINCE HE'S ON THE GB....
GOOD JOB ESPINOSA YOU DON'T EVEN BELONG WHERE YOU AT....
BY THE WAY I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT,WHAT WITH I HAVE A PROBLEM IS WHEN THEY SAY GOD PUT THEM THERE, LETS BE REAL AND NOT LIE ABOUT IT,JUST INSTALL THE NEW PASTOR BUT DON'T SHOUT THAT GOD PUT HIM THERE..
HEY EVERYONE I_STAND_4_ONE IS NOW ON...
WHATS NEW?? ANYTHING INTERESTING??
To Truth:
You speak anything but the truth.
Don't speak in ignorance when Art Espinoza left EPA, there was at least 250 members at least. Get informed before you speak
factsonly1:
Here's a fact for you:
"And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples (in other words, the whole church) and said, “It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty. But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” And what they said pleased the whole gathering, and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus, a proselyte of Antioch. These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands on them."
Peter and the other disciples obviously believed that even though they had been chosen by God, they could still trust the people to elect servants full of the holy ghost. Peter didn't just go and appoint whomever he liked, or whomever he thought was the best for the church.
This looks like democracy to me.
God Bless You.
P.S. Laodicea was not named for democracy. It was named after Laodice, the wife of the ruler of that city. And what does democracy have to do with being lukewarm? Are you implying that if we follow men blindly we will be on fire for God? Or are you saying that God prefers that the love of many wax cold toward the AA? No where in revelation does Jesus say to Laodicea, "I hold against you the fact that you all treat each other as equals."
Chew on that fact for a little while.
Strong Believer in God,
Thanks for your reply.
Your pastor sounds like a very wise man. It seems that if our pastors communicate earnestly and honestly with us, we can have some peace of mind about his whole thing.
Do you know if any other pastors in your district have done the same thing?
I guarantee you, even Brother Baldemar is praying for the AA.
The more churches we have praying about this situation, the better decision we will be able to make come convention.
God Bless You.
God is Just:
I've always like the story about Josiah. Don't you think it's bogus the way he died though?
You still haven't answered my questions about what fundamentals you think are missing in the Apostolic Church. That's the conversation I would like to have with you.
Perhaps you can share some evidence that these fundamentals are missing.
Are you talking about Holiness? Discipline? Exercising Gifts?
What exactly to you mean by fundamentals?
God Bless You
cantwealljustgetalong:
Thanks for your input.
I could see it happening the same way in our church. We don't have general meetings as Strong Believer's church does.
It seems to me that your pastor is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If he has friends on the GB, I am assuming that some of the pastors that were excommunicated were also his friends. That's a tight spot to be in.
So is it a fact that this week we will be hearing more news about what the GB is going to be doing about the rest of the Pastors? or is that just speculation?
So what did your pastor say he would do to correct the situation, besides pray? You don't have to answer that if you don't want to.
Will he stand up for justice? How?
I think many of our Pastors plan on standing up for justice in a quieter way. I am finding that more and more pastors are very private people.
M. Gallegos is right when he says that it's so Mafia like. That's the part I hate. But it's not just the pastorship. That has become the standard for leadership in any arena in America.
God Bless You.
Snoopyd
I'm not on this blog long enough to know if you asked me anything. Can you post what you were responding to me about?
I will gladly converse with you further, should the need arise.
About Josiah, I would'nt call it bogus. However, I did find it interesting that the author did not expand on his death.
Oh my freeking goondess!!
After seeing the CID in english, only a cursury view at that, it's no wonder the judged ruled as he did.
Can the CID be more Vague? I mean, you literally need to read and understand greek.
Its not clear and specific. It does not enumerate anything.
In the Word, God is very SPECIFIC. ie the Commandments, Baptism.
But then again, we are talking about a bunch of La Puente Bible Schoolers who teamed up with a Centro Escuela Biblico de Tijuana grad.
Just blow the whole thing up and start over. It worked for Japan.
fedupwithdeceipt....
I didn't ask, because I really don't care..either way...I suppose I do care..as I don't see how god would allow such a think to happen to the AA for someone to win a lawsuit. (which would open pandora's box for pastors feeling that they can sue for what ever they feel)
Never once has this stopped my mission of Soul Winning/Discipleship at my "local church". Which is our really calling.
PROPUESTAS PARA EL PASTORADO
Amados Pastores: Ya se acerca la Convención en Texas en el mes de Noviembre del 2008. Y es mi deseo
Contribuir con ustedes con esta Serie de Propuestas a manera de Sugerencia, por el daño que la Mesa Directiva General está haciendo a los Pastores, y como consecuencia a la Asamblea. Por el USO
INDEBIDO que están haciendo de la Constitución, y el USO INDEBIDO que están haciendo con el CID.
Ustedes quedan en libertad de perfeccionarlas con la experiencia y sabiduría que Dios les da, y usarlas.
#1
Propongo que el Documento Capacidad, Idoneidad y Derecho sea anulado por las siguientes razones:
1 – Porque dicho documento no pasó por todo el Proceso que decreta el Artículo 75 de nuestra
Constitución.
2 – Porque el Documento Capacidad, Idoneidad y Derecho Enmienda o Reforma el Artículo 5, incisos II y IV; y el Artículo 46, inciso I de nuestra Constitución.
3 – Porque ninguno de los ocho miembros que forman la Mesa Directiva General están exentos de cumplir con lo que define el Artículo 75 cuando se trata de hacer Enmiendas ó Reformas a la Constitución.
#2
El Artículo 4, inciso VI, dice: La selección de los candidatos a los ocho puestos de la Mesa Directiva General, se hará por el voto secreto de todos los votantes.
Propongo que quede como sigue: La selección de los candidatos a los ocho puestos de la Mesa Directiva General, se hará por el voto secreto exclusivamente de todos los votantes en cada etapa de votación. Después que los votantes hayan votado, la Comisión Calificadora no podrá volver a votar en ningún tiempo del proceso electoral para seleccionar candidatos para ningún puesto de la Mesa Directiva General.
Es decir, que se agregue la palabra exclusivamente.
Y que se agreguen las frases:
a – en cada etapa de votación.
b – Después que los votantes hayan votado,
c - la Comisión Calificadora no podrá volver a votar en ningún tiempo del proceso electoral para seleccionar candidatos para ningún puesto de la Mesa Directiva General.
Razones:
1 – Es necesario que el Artículo 4, inciso VI quede bien definido para situaciones futuras que se nos presentaren de cualquier índole.
2 – El inciso habla por sí mismo, y ya quedó aprobado que los candidatos deben ser seleccionados por los votos de todos los Pastores. Y que cada puesto en la Mesa Directiva lo ocupará aquel que haya sido seleccionado por el voto de todos los Pastores.
3 – No encontramos ningún Artículo ó inciso en la Constitución que defina ó autorice que una vez que los Pastores han votado para seleccionar un candidato, la Comisión Calificadora tiene la autoridad para volver a votar por los mismos que ya habían sido seleccionados por los Pastores.
4 – La Constitución no dice ó autoriza que sólo los cinco votos de la Comisión Calificadora contarán para seleccionar al que será presentado ante los Pastores para una segunda etapa de votación.
5 – La Constitución no dice ó autoriza que la Comisión Calificadora le puede dar mayoría de votos a quien los Pastores le dieron minoría de votos.
6 – El Artículo 39, inciso I, dice: La Asamblea Apostólica respeta y reconoce la Biblia como la Palabra de Dios, como el libro supremo y como la ley a la que deben sujetarse todos los ministros, miembros y la presente Constitución. Si esto es así, la Biblia dice:
a – Donde no hay dirección sabia, caerá el pueblo; mas en la multitud de consejeros hay seguridad (Prov. 11:14).
b – Los pensamientos son frustrados donde no hay consejo; mas en la multitud de consejeros se afirman (Prov. 15:22).
c – Porque con ingenio harás la guerra, y en la multitud de consejeros está la victoria (Prov. 22:6).
d – Por lo tanto, aparte de que no es constitucional, no creo que sea sabio que los votos de cinco de una Comisión Calificadora, sean los que decidan quién habrá de quedar en cada posición de una Mesa Directiva General, porque el uso de una libertad así, se presta para muchas cosas.
Es constitucional y sabio que entre alrededor de setecientos Pastores sean elegidos quienes habrán de tomar decisiones que traerán consecuencias a nuestra Asamblea para bien o para lo contrario.
PASTORES, LAS PROPUESTAS CONTINUARAN, DIOS LES BENDIGA.
On June 26, 2008, 12:29 A.M. you said,
"I truly believe it is God's will that the AA is kicking out a majority of the founders. Now we will be able to start a new organization that will bring back the fundamentals that were meant to be founded in the AA of today."
Maybe that will jog your memory and you and I can talk a little bit about "the fundamentals that were meant to be founded in the AA of today."
God Bless You.
snoop dog..
My pastor does have person feelings that I will not share with everyone here.
I do know that they will be sharing this week with all bishops/elders the timeline from their viewpoint. As well as documents, transcripts, signed affidavits, to show their workings.
I know that they were advise by their attorney's not to share info while the proceeding were actually happening.. (makes me wonder if the plantiffs received this same counsel because it seemed like we knew their every step).
anyhoot, the GB will be disclosing everything...something that will utterly shock you all.
--I said something i my last post that makes me ponder this question...If they plantiffs won, that would have opened pandora's box for pastors to sue for anything that they wish.
your thoughts??
SERIE DE PROPUESTAS #2
Amados Pastores, he aquí una segunda serie de Propuestas que cualquiera de ustedes puede someter en la Convención General que ya se aproxima, siguiendo el Proceso que decreta el Artículo 75. Están ustedes en libertad de perfeccionarlas y usarlas. Recuerden que la Mesa Directiva General NO los puede quitar de Pastores, ni les pueden quitar el Ministerio, ni el Templo si son propietarios, porque ustedes sometan Propuestas.
#1
El Artículo 4, inciso VII, dice: Para hacer la selección de candidatos para cada puesto, los votantes escribirán secretamente en la boleta impresa que se les entregue, el nombre de su candidato.
Propongo que diga: Para hacer la selección de candidatos para cada puesto, los votantes escribirán secretamente en la boleta impresa que se les entregue, el nombre de su candidato. Y ningún sistema electrónico podrá ser usado en ninguna etapa del proceso de votación.
Es decir, propongo que se añada la frase: Y ningún sistema electrónico podrá ser usado en ninguna etapa del proceso de votación.
Razones:
a – Porque ya quedó aprobado en Convención General que los nombres deben ser escritos en boletas impresas.
b – Porque ya quedó aprobado en Convención General que la Comisión Electoral es la encargada de este trabajo.
c – Porque es necesario que la Comisión Electoral sea Testigo de los nombres y cantidad de votos en un Proceso tan delicado, siguiéndose el orden Bíblico de: Para que en boca de dos o tres testigos conste toda palabra (Mat.18:16c). Para mantener la Integridad y la Justicia dentro del Cuerpo Ministerial.
d – Porque el uso de equipo electrónico en un Proceso Electoral, no ha pasado por el Proceso que decreta el Artículo 75 de nuestra Constitución, y por lo tanto, los Pastores nunca han aprobado su uso, lo cual significa una Reforma a la Constitución.
#2
El Artículo 4, inciso VIII, dice: La Comisión de Elecciones recogerá todas las boletas y después de hacer el cómputo correspondiente, presentará los resultados a la Comisión Calificadora.
Propongo que diga: La Comisión de Elecciones recogerá todas las boletas y después de hacer el cómputo correspondiente, presentará los resultados a la Comisión Calificadora. Invariablemente, la Comisión de Elecciones será la que siempre lleve a cabo el cómputo de votos en cada etapa de votación.
Es decir, propongo que se añada la frase: Invariablemente, la Comisión de Elecciones será la que siempre lleve a cabo el cómputo de votos en cada etapa de votación.
Razones:
a – Es necesario que los incisos de nuestra Constitución queden muy bien definidos para situaciones futuras que se nos presenten de cualquier índole.
b – Porque ya quedó aprobado en Convención General que la Comisión de Elecciones es la que hará este trabajo.
c – Porque es necesario que la Comisión de Elecciones sea Testigo del cómputo, siguiéndose el orden bíblico de: Por boca de dos o de tres testigos se decidirá todo asunto (1Cor.13:1b). Para mantener la Paz y relaciones ministeriales sanas entre cada Convención General Electoral.
d – Ya experimentamos que hacer uso de otro sistema de cómputo, además de ser anticonstitucional, nos llevó más horas de estancia que en Procesos Electorales anteriores.
#3
El Artículo 4, inciso IX, dice: Los nombres de los ministros que fueren aprobados como candidatos serán dados a conocer por la Comisión de Elecciones ante la asamblea.
Propongo que diga: Los nombres de los ministros que fueren aprobados como candidatos serán dados a conocer por la Comisión de Elecciones ante la asamblea. Y deberá darse un mínimo de siete minutos de tiempo antes de orar por ellos, para que si hubiere alguna objeción, se tenga el tiempo suficiente para llegar ante la Comisión Calificadora y presentar las razones de dicha objeción, sin que a ningún objetante se le niegue el acceso, ni el ser escuchado.
Es decir, que al inciso se le añada: Y deberá darse un mínimo de siete minutos de tiempo antes de orar por ellos, para que si hubiere alguna objeción, se tenga el tiempo suficiente para llegar ante la Comisión Calificadora y presentar las razones de dicha objeción, sin que a ningún objetante se le niegue el acceso, ni el ser escuchado.
Razones:
a – Porque cuando el Presidente de la Comisión de Elecciones anuncia los nombres de los candidatos, estos son pasados al momento frente a la asamblea, e inmediatamente se procede a orar por ellos sin dar el tiempo suficiente por si hubiere algún Pastor que necesite ser el atalaya sobre alguna situación que deba ser conocida.
b – Porque es necesario darle el respeto a todo Pastor objetante, y la importancia debida a su objeción, para evitar que sea integrada a una Mesa Directiva General, una persona que esté violando la Constitución, o que esté faltando de alguna manera al Artículo 57 que trata sobre Obligaciones morales y espirituales de los ministros.
#4
El Artículo 4, inciso XIII, dice: Si alguno de los precandidatos que debe convertirse en candidato, a juicio de la Comisión Calificadora, saliera empatado, deberá hacerse una elección eliminatoria para lograr el desempate.
Propongo que diga: Si alguno de los precandidatos que debe convertirse en candidato saliera empatado por haber obtenido el mismo número de votos, deberá hacerse una elección eliminatoria para lograr el desempate.
Es decir, propongo:
1 – Que se elimine la frase: a juicio de la Comisión Calificadora.
2 – Que se añada la frase: por haber obtenido el mismo número de votos.
Razones:
1 – Porque la palabra empatado se relaciona con la palabra empatar, la cual significa: Obtener el mismo número de votos en una votación, varias de las personas por las que se vota. Por lo tanto, un empate no puede quedar a juicio de la Comisión Calificadora.
2 – Porque si un empate quedara a juicio de la Comisión Calificadora, el juicio de la Comisión Calificadora pudiera ser que alguien que obtuvo una menor cantidad de votos, empató con un candidato que obtuvo más votos.
#5
El Artículo 4, inciso XVII, dice: Una vez aceptada una declinación, se hará nueva selección para sustituir al declinante.
Propongo que diga: Una vez aceptada una declinación, se hará nueva selección para sustituir al declinante, exclusivamente de entre quienes hubieren obtenido un mayor número de votos de los Pastores de la asamblea votante.
Es decir, propongo que se añada a este inciso: exclusivamente de entre quienes hubieren obtenido un mayor número de votos de los Pastores de la asamblea votante.
Razones:
1 – Necesitamos que los incisos queden claramente definidos en caso que se suscitaren situaciones futuras de cualquier naturaleza.
2 – Esta es una forma válida de proteger la integridad de nuestros Procesos Electorales.
3 – Esta es una forma sabia de evitar que se cometa alguna injusticia o decisión sin equidad.
#6
El Artículo 4, inciso XVIII, dice: Una mayoría simple será suficiente para salir electo y ocupar el cargo correspondiente. Los ministros ausentes no tendrán derecho a presentar objeciones.
Propongo que diga: Una mayoría simple será suficiente para salir electo y ocupar el cargo correspondiente. Los ministros ausentes no tendrán derecho a presentar objeciones, sólo quienes ellos hubieren enviado como sus representantes.
Es decir, propongo que se añada la frase: sólo quienes ellos hubieren enviado como sus representantes.
Razones:
1 – En el Artículo 4, inciso III, ya quedó aprobado que en caso de que el Pastor no pueda asistir a la Convención General, por razones justificadas, enviará en su lugar a un representante.
2 – En el mismo Artículo 4, inciso III, quedó aprobado que se le da el derecho de votar, y como representante, tiene derecho de objetar, ya que cabe la posibilidad de que sea portador de alguna información de parte del Pastor que sea necesario que la Comisión Calificadora conozca.
#7
Propongo que se añada un nuevo inciso al Artículo 4, y que quede como el inciso XXI, y que diga así:
Ningún ministro que en el día de un Proceso Electoral en Convención General se encuentre violando la Constitución, podrá ser calificado por la Comisión Calificadora para ninguna posición en la Mesa Directiva General.
Razones:
1 – Porque calificar a un ministro que está violando la Constitución es una violación a la Constitución.
2 – Porque es una manera de respetar y estimular a los Pastores aspirantes que sí están cumpliendo.
3 – Porque no sería justo que se califique al que no cumple, y que se descalificara al que si cumple.
4 – Porque eso honra y dignifica a la Comisión Calificadora, ya que da un ejemplo de integridad.
#8
Propongo que se añada un nuevo inciso al Artículo 4, y que quede como el inciso XXII, y que diga así:
No podrá ser considerado como mayor número de votos, cantidades menores de cincuenta votos. Por lo tanto, nadie que obtenga menos de cincuenta votos, podrá ser calificado por la Comisión Calificadora en ningún Proceso Electoral de Convención General para ocupar un puesto en la Mesa Directiva General.
Razones:
1 – Porque por algo los Pastores dan una minoría de votos con la sabiduría que viene de lo alto.
2 – Porque esto es una señal de que no es la voluntad de Dios que quede cierto, o ciertos ministros.
3 – Porque de esta manera se le da su lugar a los Pastores, y se les respeta su voto, de otra manera no tiene sentido el estar sentados por horas, si el voto va a ser ignorado, además del gasto para la iglesia local, que conlleva el viajar precisamente con el fin de votar.
God is just:
On June 26, 2008, 12:29 A.M. you said,
"I truly believe it is God's will that the AA is kicking out a majority of the founders. Now we will be able to start a new organization that will bring back the fundamentals that were meant to be founded in the AA of today."
Maybe that will jog your memory and you and I can talk a little bit about "the fundamentals that were meant to be founded in the AA of today."
Sorry I didn't specify on my last post that it was for you.
God Bless You.
SERIE DE PROPUESTAS 3
06/20/08
Amados Pastores, en Convención General pasada del mes de Noviembre del 2007. El Presidente usó de astucia al decir que por causa de estar demandados, que no se iba a poder tratar con los Pastores ninguna Propuesta que tuviera que ver con asuntos relacionados al Proceso Electoral contenido en la Constitución.
Fue astucia planeada porque todo lo que se hubiera aprobado por los Pastores en ése día en relación al Proceso Electoral, en nada hubiera afectado ya que lo que se hubiera aprobado en Noviembre del 2007 después de pasar por el Proceso del Artículo 75, hubiera sido confirmado hasta Noviembre del 2008, y es lógico que no tiene efecto o acción retroactiva.
Como es lógico también que el Plan precisamente era el evitar a toda costa que se diera curso a las Propuestas ya recibidas por ellos de parte de los Pastores QUE NO LES CONVENIA. Ya que de haber sido aprobadas todas, JAMAS COMISION CALIFICADORA ALGUNA PODRIA VOLVER A HACER LO QUE HIZO LA COMISION CALIFICADORA EN NOVIEMBRE DEL 2006.
Pero buenas noticias en pro de lograr la Justicia y de ponerles ORDEN en futuros Procesos Electorales, para que el texto que está en la página 3 de la Constitución deje de ser una burla para los Pastores. Ya que se empieza con el texto: Pero hágase todo decentemente y con orden (1Cor.14:40).
Y las buenas noticias son, que el Presidente ya no podrá argumentar lo mismo a la hora de tratar las Propuestas, es decir, que ya no podrá decir que por estar una Apelación en Corte, que por eso no se podrá tratar ninguna Propuesta que se relacione con el Proceso Electoral. Porque en la Carta que les fue enviada en este mes de Junio a los Pastores, en parte del penúltimo párrafo, ellos escriben lo que quedó como compromiso, lo cual es lo siguiente:
En Convención General ustedes recibirán un informe con lujo de detalle de los eventos que se llevaron a cabo, revelando desde el principio los hechos, fechas y escritos que se relacionan a este caso.
Aunque conociéndolos, es probable que el informe solo lo den por escrito y que no se trate en plena asamblea para protegerse de preguntas que no les convienen y que los pondría en evidencia. También es lo más seguro que como ya no van a tener excusa para evitar propuestas que reformarían el Proceso Electoral. Usando la sabiduría terrenal, animal, diabólica (Stg.3:15) que han usado desde el 2006. Sólo es cuestión de tiempo, y de seguro ustedes verán que en el programa de Convención van a poner un ridículo tiempo para la etapa de Propuestas.
O ya llegado el momento van a inventar algo, porque eso no es ningún problema para ellos, pensando que ningún Pastor se atreverá a decir nada en base a la autoridad terrenal (no espiritual) de terror que han implantado persiguiendo a Pastores que no están de acuerdo con el Fraude, la mentira, las violaciones a la Constitución, y el daño a carreras Ministeriales legítimas. Y también, lo más probable es que en ese supuesto informe sólo pongan lo que ellos quieran poner, o lo que les convenga. Por eso es de suma importancia que ustedes lean las declaraciones que Sánchez, Martín del Campo y Misael Zaragoza le dieron por escrito al Juez, y que las comparen con lo que dice la Constitución para evitar más engaño.
A CONTINUACION LAS PROPUESTAS
#1
El Artículo 5, inciso I, dice así: Un día antes de las elecciones, la Mesa Directiva General en pleno nombrará una Comisión Calificadora, que será integrada por tres miembros de la Mesa Directiva General y dos obispos de distrito, la cual se encargará de realizar las funciones que enseguida se describen:
Propongo que el Artículo 5, inciso I, quede como sigue: El primer día de Convención General Electoral, la asamblea pastoral en pleno, votará para elegir por mayoría de votos a quienes habrán de conformar la Comisión Calificadora, que será integrada por cinco obispos de distrito que hubieren cumplido con dos períodos como obispos, o que estén cumpliendo su segundo período. Ningún miembro de la Mesa Directiva General en función podrá formar parte de la Comisión Calificadora. Y en caso de empate se procederá de acuerdo al Artículo 4, incisos XIII y XIV. Dicha Comisión se encargará de realizar las funciones que enseguida se describen:
Es decir, que el actual Artículo 5, inciso I, sea sustituido o reformado por el que propongo.
Razones:
1 – Considerando que los obispos de los distritos son auxiliares del Obispo Presidente, de acuerdo al Artículo 29, inciso I, y por lo tanto, tienen la autoridad, experiencia, sabiduría e imparcialidad suficiente para llevar a cabo esta responsabilidad.
2 – Porque en la página 112 de la Constitución, en el punto 18 sobre El Cuerpo Ministerial, dice:
Creemos que el obispado es el cargo más elevado en el ministerio y que a quienes lo ocupan, se les debe dar muestras especiales de consideración y respeto, sin menoscabo de los que ocupan posiciones de menor responsabilidad.
3 – Para tratar de evitar hasta donde sea posible un conflicto de intereses.
4 – Para tratar de evitar hasta donde sea posible un nepotismo cuando no se llenaren los requisitos constitucionales, esto es, el abuso que una persona hace de su poder a favor de su familia.
5 – Porque en Reuniones Conjuntas, ellos han tenido la autoridad del voto para aprobar o desaprobar asuntos o documentos que la Mesa Directiva General presenta.
#2
El Artículo 5, inciso II, dice: La Comisión Calificadora tomará en cuenta, de aquellos ministros que hayan obtenido un mayor número de votos, su capacidad, idoneidad y derecho, y aprobará de dos a cinco de ellos como candidatos. De entre estos últimos la asamblea de pastores escogerá mediante el voto, si no hubiere inconvenientes de los previstos en la presente Constitución, hasta que uno de ellos obtenga una mayoría simple.
Propongo que el Artículo 5, inciso II, quede como sigue: La Comisión Calificadora únicamente tomará en cuenta, de aquellos ministros que hayan obtenido un mayor número de votos en primer lugar. Y en segundo lugar, su capacidad, idoneidad y derecho, y aprobará de dos a cinco de los que hubieren obtenido un mayor número de votos en turno como candidatos. De entre estos la asamblea de pastores escogerá mediante el voto, si no hubiere inconvenientes de los previstos en la presente Constitución, hasta que uno de ellos obtenga una mayoría simple.
Es decir:
1 – Propongo que se añada la palabra: únicamente.
2 – Que se añada la frase: en primer lugar.
2 – Que se añada la frase: Y en segundo lugar.
3 – Que se añada la frase: de los que hubieren obtenido un mayor número de votos en turno.
4 – Que sea quitada la palabra: últimos.
Razones:
1 – El Artículo 5, inciso II, se explica por sí mismo, pero es necesario que lo que claramente se entiende de él, quede definido por escrito para situaciones futuras que se nos pudieran presentar.
2 – Porque es necesario proteger la integridad de nuestros Procesos Electorales.
3 – Para que por si alguna razón, el documento CID continúa, éste no sobrepase la autoridad de nuestra Constitución hecha ley por los Pastores y que no tenga más poder que el voto de los Pastores.
4 – Para que no se preste a la interpretación particular de ninguna Comisión Calificadora.
5 – Para que la voluntad de Dios a través del voto de los Pastores sea honrada en temor santo.
6 – Para que el destino de nuestra Iglesia dependa del voto de todos los Pastores y no de cinco votos.
#3
El Artículo 5, inciso III, dice: Cuando uno de los candidatos hubiere obtenido las dos terceras partes o más de los votos emitidos, lo cual constituye en este caso el voto abrumador, y fuere aprobado por la Comisión Calificadora, esta lo hará saber a la Comisión de Elecciones para que sea declarado electo para el puesto al que fue propuesto. Estas decisiones serán tomadas siempre de acuerdo con los lineamientos marcados en esta Constitución.
Propongo que el Artículo 5, inciso III, quede como sigue: Cuando uno de los candidatos hubiere obtenido las dos terceras partes o más de los votos emitidos, lo cual constituye en este caso el voto abrumador, la Comisión Calificadora lo hará saber a la Comisión de Elecciones para que sea declarado electo para el puesto al que fue propuesto. Estas decisiones serán tomadas siempre de acuerdo con los lineamientos marcados en esta Constitución.
Es decir:
1 – Propongo que sea quitada la frase: y fuere aprobado por.
2 – Que sea quitada la palabra: esta.
Razones:
1 – Es una declaración que está de más, ya que al final del mismo inciso ya quedó definido que estas decisiones serán tomadas siempre de acuerdo con los lineamientos marcados en esta Constitución.
2 – Es una declaración ambigua, es decir, que puede admitir distintas interpretaciones.
3 – Como ese inciso habla de ser declarado electo para el puesto al que fue propuesto, se trata de un candidato que recibe votos en la segunda ronda de votos, es decir, alguien que ya fue calificado antes, y que por lo tanto la Comisión Calificadora ya no tiene nada que aprobar, y solo sujetarse a la voluntad de Dios a través del voto de los Pastores.
4 – Finalmente, por lo definido en el punto anterior, para que este inciso no pueda ser aplicado a precandidatos que recibieron votos en una primera ronda, y que no se preste para aprobar a ministros que hubieren recibido una minoría de votos.
#4
El Artículo 5, inciso IV, dice: En caso de que la Comisión Calificadora determine que las personas propuestas no llenan los requisitos establecidos en la presente Constitución, o carecen de capacidad, idoneidad y derecho para figurar como precandidatos, la misma deberá ordenar que se haga una nueva selección.
Propongo que el Artículo 5, inciso IV, quede como sigue: En caso de que la Comisión Calificadora determine que las personas propuestas no llenan los requisitos establecidos en la presente Constitución, o en segundo lugar, que carecen de capacidad, idoneidad y derecho para figurar como precandidatos después de presentar pruebas por escrito que lo demuestren, la misma deberá ordenar que se haga una nueva votación y no escoger de entre quienes hubieren obtenido una minoría de votos.
Es decir:
1 – Propongo que se añada la frase: en segundo lugar.
2 – Que se añada la frase: después de presentar pruebas por escrito que lo demuestren.
3 – Que sea quitada la palabra: selección, y que sea sustituida por la palabra votación.
4 – Y que se añada la frase: y no escoger de entre quienes hubieren obtenido una minoría de votos.
Razones:
1 – Es necesario que cada inciso quede bien definido aunque haya puntos que ya se encuentren en otros incisos, por circunstancias futuras de interpretación de la Constitución que se pudieren presentar.
2 – Para que los Ministros reciban el respeto debido como dice en (Rom.13:7d), al que respeto, respeto. Y se honre la Escritura en (Rom.12:10), que dice: Amaos los unos a los otros con amor fraternal; en cuanto a honra, prefiriéndoos los unos a los otros.
3 - Para que no se preste el inciso así como actualmente dice, para descalificar precandidatos en forma ligera y por razones cuestionables.
4 – Porque no puede ser posible que entre tanto Ministro de una lista de precandidatos nadie llene los requisitos de entre quienes hubieren obtenido mayoría de votos.
5 – ¿Porque cómo se va a hacer una nueva selección, si el inciso habla de que los candidatos no llenan los requisitos?
6 – Porque al estar la frase: que se haga una nueva selección, se puede prestar como base para una Comisión Calificadora para que seleccione a su criterio de entre quienes hubieren obtenido una minoría de votos.
#5
El Artículo 5, inciso V, dice: Si después de ser presentados los candidatos y antes de que se ore por ellos hubiere objeciones en contra de cualquiera de ellos, se suspenderán las elecciones mientras que el objetante discute privadamente ante la Comisión Calificadora. Las objeciones deberán ser pruebas fehacientes, para que la Comisión Calificadora suspenda la elección de un candidato. Si esto sucediere, ésta podrá seleccionar otro candidato entre quien en turno tenga mayoría de votos y llene los requisitos, u ordenar que se haga una nueva elección. Ninguna objeción será presentada ni discutida ante el pleno de la asamblea.
Propongo que el Artículo 5, inciso V, quede como sigue: Si después de ser presentados los candidatos y antes de que se ore por ellos hubiere objeciones en contra de cualquiera de ellos, se suspenderán las elecciones mientras que el objetante discute privadamente ante la Comisión Calificadora. Las objeciones deberán ser pruebas fehacientes, para que la Comisión Calificadora suspenda la elección de un candidato. Si esto sucediere, ésta podrá seleccionar otro candidato únicamente de entre quien en turno tenga mayoría de votos y llene los requisitos Constitucionales. Ninguna objeción será presentada ni discutida ante el pleno de la asamblea.
Es decir:
1 – Propongo que se añada la frase: únicamente de.
2 – Que se añada la palabra: Constitucionales.
3 – Que sea quitada la frase: u ordenar que se haga una nueva elección.
Razones:
1 – Para honrar la voluntad de Dios que se manifestó a través de los Pastores dándole mayoría de votos a varios ministros.
2 – Porque los requisitos que deben ser llenados deben ser apegadamente los que marca la Constitución, y evitar así la posibilidad de que sean los requisitos de alguien en lo particular.
3 – Porque ¿cómo se va a ordenar una nueva elección? No sería justo habiendo ya varios candidatos que ya recibieron mayoría de votos de entre quienes seleccionar por cantidad de votos en turno y en relación a los cuales no existen objeciones.
4 – Es decir, porque las objeciones serían de alguno, o en caso remoto de algunos de los candidatos pero no de todos los candidatos.
5 – Volver a hacer una nueva elección habiendo otros candidatos con mayoría de votos y sobre los cuales no existe ninguna objeción, solamente causaría que el Proceso Electoral se prolongara por más tiempo de manera innecesaria.
#6
El Artículo 5, inciso VI, dice: Si cualquiera de los miembros de la Comisión Calificadora resultare propuesto como candidato y quisiera participar en las elecciones, deberá retirarse momentáneamente de la comisión, para permitir que el resto de sus integrantes delibere. Una vez pasada su elección podrá volver a ocupar su puesto.
Propongo que el inciso VI del Artículo 5, diga de la siguiente manera: Si cualquiera de los miembros de la Comisión Calificadora resultare propuesto como candidato y quisiera participar en las elecciones, deberá retirarse momentáneamente de la comisión, para permitir que el resto de sus integrantes delibere, en el entendido que deliberar no significa votar. Una vez pasada su elección podrá volver a ocupar su puesto.
Es decir:
1 – Propongo que se añada la frase: en el entendido que deliberar no significa votar.
Razones:
1 – Porque es necesario que cada inciso quede bien definido por si en un futuro se suscitaren situaciones que nunca se sabe, y que así no haya problema en interpretar este inciso.
2 – Para que quede bien definido que deliberar no significa votar, ya que deliberar significa: Examinar atentamente el pro y el contra de una decisión, antes de realizarla. Decidir, resolver una cosa después de un cuidadoso examen.
ju.4all
can you put that in English??
yeah that is right i'm born/raise in the AA and I only speak english. :)
so where did scotty go?
"I truly believe it is God's will that the AA is kicking out a majority of the founders."
Um....which 'founders' is he talking about?
SERIE DE PROPUESTAS 4
06/25/08
Pastores, ¿Ya reflexionaron en las propuestas anteriores? Como ustedes ya pudieron analizar, todas tienen puntos muy sólidos. Como por ejemplo este otro punto: No es nada descabellado el proponer que la Comisión Calificadora esté formada por cinco Obispos de Distrito. ¿Qué las Comisiones Calificadoras anteriores no han estado de hecho formadas por dos Obispos de Distrito? ¿Porqué no pudiera haber tres más, para que sean cinco en total, en lugar de dos?
#1
El Artículo 39, inciso III, dice: Si el Obispo Presidente violare la Constitución, los demás miembros de la Mesa Directiva General, presididos por el Obispo Vicepresidente, deberán constituirse en una Comisión de Honor y Justicia, y con todo respeto deberán hacerle un llamado de atención al Obispo Presidente para que rectifique su conducta y vuelva a situarse dentro del cumplimiento de sus deberes, considerando que su alta investidura lo requiere.
Propongo que el Artículo 39, inciso III, quede como sigue: Si el Obispo Presidente violare la Constitución, el Cuerpo Episcopal, presidido por quien de entre ellos hubiere obtenido un mayor número de votos el día de Reunión, deberá constituirse en una Comisión de Honor y Justicia, y con todo respeto deberán hacerle un llamado de atención al Obispo Presidente, después de definirle en qué consistió la violación y quedando todo asentado en un acta, para que rectifique su conducta y vuelva a situarse dentro del cumplimiento de sus deberes. Bastará que tres Obispos en común acuerdo expresen por escrito que se llevó a cabo una violación para que se convoque a Reunión a los treinta días de ser recibido el documento en las Oficinas Generales. Una tercera violación dará la autoridad al Cuerpo Episcopal para dictar sentencia de destitución, la cual se decidirá por la votación del cincuenta por ciento de los Obispos presentes más uno como mínimo.
Es decir:
1 – Propongo que sea quitada la frase: los demás Miembros de la Mesa Directiva General, presididos por el Obispo Vicepresidente. Y que sea sustituida por la frase: el Cuerpo Episcopal, presidido por quien de entre ellos hubiere obtenido un mayor número de votos el día de Reunión.
2 – Que sea quitada la palabra: deberán. Y que sea sustituida por la palabra: deberá.
3 – Que sea añadida la frase: después de definirle en qué consistió la violación y quedando todo asentado en un acta.
4 – Que sea quitada la frase: considerando que su alta investidura lo requiere.
5 – Que sea añadida la frase: Bastará que tres Obispos en común acuerdo expresen por escrito que se llevó a cabo una violación para que se convoque a Reunión a los treinta días de ser recibido el documento en las Oficinas Generales.
6 – Que sea añadida la frase: Una tercera violación dará la autoridad al Cuerpo Episcopal para dictar sentencia de destitución, la cual se decidirá por la votación del cincuenta por ciento de los Obispos presentes más uno como mínimo.
Razones:
1 – Porque la Constitución ha sido violada múltiples veces, y de la misma manera muchas veces no se ha formado ninguna Comisión de Honor y Justicia para que sean rectificadas conductas.
2 – Para evitar hasta donde nos sea posible un conflicto de intereses.
3 – Para que verdaderamente se tome con seriedad y se cumpla con la protesta pública que decreta el Artículo 39, incisos I y II. Y lo que se define como una obligación primaria en el Artículo 29, inciso II.
4 – Para preservar la rectitud, la integridad, y el apego fiel a nuestra Constitución.
5 – Por la experiencia que tienen los Obispos, de entre los cuales salen candidatos seleccionados por votación Pastoral para ocupar alguna posición dentro de la Mesa Directiva General.
6 – Por la investidura que tienen los Obispos, ya que en este Artículo 39, después de la Mesa Directiva General, los siguientes y únicos aludidos son los Obispos supervisores.
7 – Porque se hace necesario que queden asentadas las violaciones en un acta como constancia para mantener oficialidad, seriedad y orden. Así como para tener evidencias en base a las cuales la Comisión de Honor y Justicia tomará determinaciones protegiendo a la Asamblea sobre cualquier situación que se presentare en un futuro.
8 – No es posible consentir una tercera violación. Inspirado en (Tito 3:10), que dice: Al hombre que cause divisiones, después de una y otra amonestación deséchalo. Causar una división es algo que causa mucho daño, y por eso Dios está diciendo que a la segunda amonestación sea desechado. Yo creo que violaciones a la Constitución también es un asunto muy serio que pudiera llegar a causar tanto daño como una división, y por lo tanto una tercera vez es más que suficiente.
9 - ¿Porqué el documento de tres Obispos señalando una violación es suficiente? Porque por boca de dos o tres testigos se decidirá todo asunto (1Cor.13:1b).
#2
El Artículo 39, inciso IV, dice: Si la violación a la Constitución fuere hecha por cualquiera de los demás miembros de la Mesa Directiva General o por alguno de los obispos supervisores, el Obispo Presidente, con el Obispo Secretario General y tres miembros mas que él asigne, deberán constituirse en una Comisión de Honor y Justicia, para llamarle la atención sobre su error y volverlo al marco de la legalidad.
Propongo que el Artículo 39, inciso IV, quede como sigue: Si la violación a la Constitución fuere hecha por cualquiera de los demás miembros de la Mesa Directiva General o por alguno de los Obispos Supervisores, el Cuerpo Episcopal deberá constituirse en una Comisión de Honor y Justicia presidida por quien en ese día resultare electo por mayoría de votos de entre ellos mismos, para definirle en qué consistió el error de la violación quedando todo asentado en un acta y así volverlo al marco de la legalidad Constitucional. Bastará que tres Obispos en común acuerdo expresen por escrito que se llevó a cabo una violación para que se convoque a Reunión en las Oficinas Generales a los treinta días de ser recibido el documento en dichas Oficinas. Una tercera violación dará al Cuerpo Episcopal la autoridad para dictar una sentencia de destitución la cual se decidirá por la votación del cincuenta por ciento de los Obispos presentes más uno como mínimo.
Es decir:
1 – Propongo que sean quitadas las frases: el Obispo Presidente, con el Secretario General y tres miembros mas que él asigne, deberán constituirse en una Comisión de Honor y Justicia., para llamarle la atención sobre su error y volverlo al marco de la legalidad.
2 – Y que sean sustituidas como sigue: el Cuerpo Episcopal deberá constituirse en una Comisión de Honor y Justicia presidida por quien en ese día resultare electo por mayoría de votos de entre ellos mismos, para definirle en qué consistió el error de la violación, quedando todo asentado en un acta y así volverlo al marco de la legalidad Constitucional. Bastará que tres Obispos en común acuerdo expresen por escrito que se llevó a cabo una violación para que se convoque a Reunión en las Oficinas Generales a los treinta días de ser recibido el documento en dichas Oficinas. Una tercera violación dará al Cuerpo Episcopal la autoridad para dictar una sentencia de destitución la cual se decidirá por la votación del cincuenta por ciento de los Obispos presentes más uno como mínimo.
Razones:
Por las mismas nueve razones anteriores aplicadas al inciso III definidas en la página 2.
#3
El Artículo 39, inciso VI, dice: En caso de destitución del Obispo Presidente, el resto de los miembros de la Mesa Directiva General convocarán a todos los obispos de distrito para la toma de posesión del nuevo Obispo Presidente. Esta convocatoria la hará el Obispo Secretario General inmediatamente después de que se dicte la destitución y los convocados deberán reunirse en un plazo que no exceda de quince días, a partir de la fecha de la convocación.
Propongo que el Artículo 39, inciso VI, quede como sigue: En caso de la destitución del Obispo Presidente, el Cuerpo Episcopal convocará a los Pastores a través del Secretario General, a una Reunión extraordinaria para elegir al nuevo Obispo Presidente de acuerdo al Artículo 5, incisos II, III, IV, V y VI de nuestra Constitución. Esta convocatoria la hará el Obispo Secretario General inmediatamente después de que se dicte la destitución y los convocados, incluyendo el resto de la Mesa Directiva General, deberán reunirse en el lugar que acordare el Cuerpo Episcopal con la Mesa Directiva General, en un plazo que no exceda de quince días, a partir de la fecha de la convocación.
Es decir:
1 – Propongo que sea quitada la frase: el resto de los miembros de la Mesa Directiva General convocarán a todos los obispos de distrito para la toma de posesión del nuevo Obispo Presidente.
2 – Que sea sustituida por los siguientes conceptos: el Cuerpo Episcopal convocará a los Pastores a través del Secretario General, a una Reunión extraordinaria para elegir al nuevo Obispo Presidente de acuerdo al Artículo V, incisos II, III, IV, V y VI de nuestra Constitución.
3 – Que sea añadida la frase: incluyendo el resto de la Mesa Directiva General.
4 – Que sea añadida la frase: en el lugar que acordare el Cuerpo Episcopal con la Mesa Directiva General.
Razones:
1 – Si el Cuerpo Episcopal es el que tiene la autoridad para juzgar violaciones a la Constitución y destituir, son quienes deben tener la autoridad para finalizar el Proceso que ellos principiaron.
2 – Porque así como está actualmente el inciso, sólo se menciona que los Obispos serían convocados pero no se define en absoluto para qué estarían presentes.
3 – Porque así como está actualmente el inciso, no se define en absoluto de qué manera será electo el nuevo Obispo Presidente.
4 – Porque así como está el inciso actualmente, es claro que en la convocación para elegir al nuevo Obispo Presidente, los Pastores están siendo excluidos, cuando originalmente un Obispo Presidente queda en dicha posición por el voto de todos los Pastores.
5 – Porque el Obispo Vicepresidente no puede ocupar la Presidencia, ya que eso sólo aplica en los casos que define el Artículo 22, inciso I, que tiene que ver con fallecimiento, renuncia irrevocable o cese. Aclarando que el cese se está relacionando con el Artículo 22, inciso III, en donde se habla de una destitución por una comisión que presidió el juicio respectivo, lo cual tiene que ver con el Artículo 36 que trata sobre Juicios y Destituciones, y no con el Artículo 39 que trata con violaciones a la Constitución.
#4
El Artículo 39, inciso VII, dice: Si fuere destituido un miembro de la Mesa Directiva General, la Comisión de Honor y Justicia que dicta la sentencia de destitución, convocará al resto de los miembros de la Mesa Directiva General para hacer el nombramiento del funcionario que deberá cubrir la vacante.
Propongo que el Artículo 39, inciso VII, quede como sigue: Si fuere destituido un miembro de la Mesa Directiva General, fuera del Obispo Presidente, la Comisión de Honor y Justicia formada por el Cuerpo Episcopal que dicta la sentencia de destitución, llevará a cabo la votación para elegir de entre ellos mismos por mayoría de votos, quién habrá de cubrir la vacante, y una mayoría simple será suficiente para salir electo y ocupar el cargo correspondiente. En esta elección estará presente el resto de la Mesa Directiva General.
Es decir:
1 – Propongo que se añada la frase: fuera del Obispo Presidente.
2 – Que sean quitadas las frases: que dicta la sentencia de destitución, convocará al resto de los miembros de la Mesa Directiva General para hacer el nombramiento del funcionario que deberá.
3 – Que se añada la frase: formada por el Cuerpo Episcopal.
4 – Que se añadan las frases: llevará a cabo la votación para elegir de entre ellos mismos por mayoría de votos, es decir, quién habrá de.
5 – Que se añadan las frases: y una mayoría simple será suficiente para salir electo y ocupar el cargo correspondiente. En esta elección estará presente el resto de la Mesa Directiva General.
Razones:
1 – Así como está el inciso VII, no define cómo harán el nombramiento, ni de entre quienes harán el nombramiento, lo cual se podría prestar para un nepotismo sin llenar los requisitos constitucionales.
2 – Para evitar hasta donde sea posible una situación de conflicto de intereses.
3 – Porque los Obispos son los idóneos para cubrir una vacante por su experiencia.
#5
El Artículo 39, inciso VIII, dice: Si con violación a la presente Constitución se tuviere cualquier acuerdo, en Convención General, reunión de la Mesa Directiva General, Reunión Episcopal o convención distrital, la Comisión de Honor y Justicia propondrá que la reunión de la Mesa Directiva General o la Convención General mas próxima nulifique el acuerdo y se respete la Constitución en la parte violada.
Propongo que el Artículo 39, inciso VIII, quede como sigue: Si con violación a la presente Constitución se tuviere cualquier acuerdo, en relación a documentos que formulare la Mesa Directiva General que no hubieren pasado por el Proceso que define el Artículo 75 de nuestra Constitución, o acuerdos tomados en Convenciones Distritales, la Comisión de Honor y Justicia formada por el Cuerpo Episcopal ordenará en plena asamblea ministerial, en la Convención en que fuere presentado cualquier documento violatorio, que dicho documento sea anulado, o que el acuerdo Distrital violatorio quede anulado, y se respete la Constitución en la parte violada.
Es decir;
1 – Propongo que sean quitados los siguientes puntos: en Convención General, reunión de la Mesa Directiva General, Reunión Episcopal o convención distrital, la Comisión de Honor y Justicia propondrá que la reunión de la Mesa Directiva General o la Convención General mas próxima nulifique el acuerdo.
2 – Y que sean sustituidos por los siguientes puntos: en relación a documentos que formulare la Mesa Directiva General que no hubieren pasado por el Proceso que define el Artículo 75 de nuestra Constitución, o acuerdos tomados en Convenciones Distritales, la Comisión de Honor y Justicia formada por el Cuerpo Episcopal ordenará en plena asamblea ministerial, en la Convención en que fuere presentado cualquier documento violatorio, que dicho documento sea anulado, o que el acuerdo Distrital violatorio quede anulado.
Razones:
1 – Para establecer el mecanismo que asegure que los Pastores sean tomados en cuenta en relación a acuerdos que sean tomados, además de que sean verdaderamente estudiados.
2 – Para asegurar de que todo acuerdo reciba la aprobación Pastoral.
3 – Para mantener el orden Constitucional en todos los Distritos y a cualquier nivel.
4 – Porque de esta manera jamás se usarán documentos que pudieran traer perjuicio al Ministerio o a nuestra Asamblea.
5 – Porque la Mesa Directiva General también necesita ser supervisada.
#6
El Artículo 39, inciso X, dice: Cuando por alguna circunstancia se considere necesario convenir en algo que esté en contra de la Constitución, deberá nombrarse una Comisión formada por tres o cinco ministros que estudie ampliamente el caso y sugiera lo que deba hacerse, pudiéndose pedir que se reforme, amplíe, actualice o innove el artículo, inciso o vocablo que convenga para seguir adelante en el progreso y bienestar de la Asamblea Apostólica.
Propongo que el Artículo 39, inciso X, quede como sigue: Cuando por alguna circunstancia se considere necesario convenir en algo que esté en contra de la Constitución, tres Obispos en mutuo acuerdo harán un escrito que será enviado a las Oficinas Generales en el que especificarán qué es lo que está en contra de la Constitución, y convocarán al Cuerpo Episcopal a las mismas Oficinas para estudiar ampliamente el caso, y de ser comprobado lo que estuviera en contra, podrán decidir que sea presentado en Convención General más próxima para una explicación a los Pastores, y para su anulación. Lo que fuere anulado sólo podrá ser presentado en la siguiente Convención General siguiendo el Proceso que indica el Artículo 75 de nuestra Constitución, para seguir adelante en el progreso y bienestar de la Asamblea Apostólica.
Es decir:
1 – Propongo que sean anulados los siguientes puntos: deberá nombrarse una Comisión formada por tres o cinco ministros que estudie ampliamente el caso y sugiera lo que deba hacerse, pudiéndose pedir que se reforme, amplíe, actualice o innove el artículo, inciso o vocablo que convenga.
2 – Que sean sustituidos por los siguientes puntos: tres Obispos en mutuo acuerdo harán un escrito que será enviado a las Oficinas Generales en el que especificarán qué es lo que está en contra de la Constitución, y convocarán al Cuerpo Episcopal a las mismas Oficinas para estudiar ampliamente el caso, y de ser comprobado lo que estuviera en contra, podrán decidir que sea presentado en Convención General más próxima para una explicación a los Pastores, y para su anulación. Lo que fuere anulado sólo podrá ser presentado en la siguiente Convención General siguiendo el Proceso que indica el Artículo 75 de nuestra Constitución.
Razones:
1 – Así como está el inciso actualmente, tres o cinco ministros pudiera abarcar hasta diáconos ordenados. Esta declaración es muy ambigua.
2 – Los mismos sólo pueden sugerir y pedir, es decir, tienen una autoridad muy limitada.
3 – Se necesita la autoridad y la experiencia del Cuerpo Episcopal para intervenir, ya que el pasado nos ha enseñado que ha habido cosas que han estado en contra de la Constitución y no se ha nombrado ninguna Comisión.
#7
Propongo que se añada un nuevo inciso al Artículo 39, el cual sería el inciso XI.
El Artículo 39, inciso XI, diría así: En la primera Reunión que se tenga para juzgar alguna violación a la Constitución, se nombrará en ese día por mayoría de votos del Cuerpo Episcopal, un Secretario que a partir de ese día, por un período de dos años levantará las actas en cada Reunión a la que fueren convocados los Obispos con esta finalidad. Cumplidos los dos años, en la primera Reunión que se tenga, se votará de nuevo para elegir el siguiente Secretario y cada dos años se hará de la misma manera. Los Secretarios enviarán copia de cada acta al Secretario General para que sean archivadas. En caso de que el Secretario sea elegido para presidir, en ese día, se votará para seleccionar por mayoría de votos a un sustituto que fungirá como Secretario únicamente por ese día.
Razones:
1 – Para establecer el mecanismo sobre el Proceso a seguir para que la Comisión de Honor y Justicia formada por los Obispos tenga su Secretario para mantener constancia de todo lo que se trate y para guardar un orden en algo tan delicado.
cantwealljustgetalong:
"If they plantiffs won, would that have opened pandora's box for pastors to sue for anything that they wish?"
That's a very good question. I'm not sure. It depends on how crooked our pastors are.
Either way, the Bible is very clear about taking brothers to court. Paul told us not to. This thing should never have gone to court.
Pastors should appoint the people whom their local church members elect. If this would have been practiced and kept in check at the local level, it would never have gotten to the national.
The problem is, we have no system of checks and balances in the local church, therefore, we do not know how to rectify wrongdoings. We are taught from day one, "The Pastor is led by the Holy Spirit. Don't question the Holy Spirit."
But if we read the writings of Paul, he admits that he "withstood [Peter] to his face" when Peter was starting to preach that it was necessary to observe the law of Moses to be saved.
I can't wait to see how Generation Y governs the church.
God Bless You.
To Snoopy
(what a cute name)
1. I didn’t say Laodicea was named after democracy I said it means “people rule or govern. Check any Greek Exhaustive concordance of the Bible and don’t just rely on Google.
2. You quoted Acts 6:1-4 to prove democracy as foundation for the church of God. Although some aspects of the church are democratic, the governing body of the church is not democratic it’s theocratic. Paul was not chosen democratically, the Holy Spirit elected him (Acts 13:1) by the will of God not people (1 Cor. 1:1). Were the Apostles chose in a democratic way or by God which theocratic. In Acts 6 they were not choosing the leaders of the church they were choosing people to serve the tables. An they couldn’t just choose anyone they had to meet a criteria.
3. There is no coincidence in the Bible, when it mentions the church of Laodicea (people rule) as the worst in Revelations there’s a purpose. The people were spiritually poor because they thought they were self sufficient not lacking anything. The people ruled not God. I know someone who was fired by the church in another denomination because he was preaching against fornication but since that church was democratic the church voted him out. Do you see why the governing body of the church cannot be democratic. Although some aspects should be.
Please give facts more solid to chew on, you gave me Gerber.
SERIE DE PROPUESTAS 5
06/27/08
#1
El Artículo 20, inciso I, dice: La Mesa Directiva General es el conjunto representativo más elevado de la ASAMBLEA APOSTOLICA DE LA FE EN CRISTO JESUS, y se organiza con el propósito de dirigir y controlar todas las actividades de esta corporación religiosa. Velará porque los acuerdos planes y proyectos aprobados por las Convenciones Generales, reuniones de la Mesa Directiva General, Reuniones Conjuntas y Reuniones Episcopales se cumplan. Y es el organismo que durante el tiempo que pasa entre una Convención General y la otra, tiene autoridad para todos los problemas que se presenten, tomando las decisiones que competan y representar la voluntad de toda la Asamblea Apostólica.
Propongo que el Artículo 20, inciso I, quede como sigue: El Cuerpo Pastoral es el conjunto representativo más elevado de la ASAMBLEA APOSTOLICA DE LA FE EN CRISTO JESUS en primer lugar, y ningún documento podrá ser usado sin la aprobación de los Pastores por medio del voto mayoritario de un cincuenta por ciento más uno como mínimo. Y nadie podrá ocupar ninguna posición a nivel de Mesa Directiva General o Distrital sin la aprobación de una mayoría de votos de los Pastores. En segundo lugar, la Mesa Directiva General es el conjunto representativo de la
Asamblea Apostólica de la Fe en Cristo Jesús, y se organiza con el propósito de dirigir todas las actividades de esta corporación religiosa. Velará porque los acuerdos, planes y proyectos aprobados por los Pastores en Convenciones Generales se cumplan. Y es el organismo que durante el tiempo que pasa entre una Convención General y la otra, tiene autoridad para todos los problemas que se presenten, tomando las decisiones que competan estrictamente apegadas a nuestra Constitución y a los documentos aprobados en Convención General y así representar la voluntad de los Pastores.
Es decir:
1 – Propongo que se anule la frase al principio del inciso que dice: La Mesa Directiva General.
2 – Y que sea sustituida por la frase: El Cuerpo Pastoral.
3 - Que se añadan los siguientes conceptos: en primer lugar, y ningún documento podrá ser usado sin la aprobación de los Pastores por medio del voto mayoritario de un cincuenta por ciento más uno como mínimo. Y nadie podrá ocupar ninguna posición a nivel de Mesa Directiva General o Distrital sin la aprobación de una mayoría de votos de los Pastores.
4 – Que se añada la frase: En segundo lugar.
5 – Que se anule la frase: y controlar.
6 – Que se anule la palabra: las.
7 – Y que sea sustituida por la frase: los Pastores en.
8 – Que sea anulada la frase: reuniones de la Mesa Directiva General, Reuniones Conjuntas y Reuniones Episcopales.
9 – Que se añadan las frases: estrictamente apegadas a nuestra Constitución y a los documentos aprobados en Convención General.
10 – Que se agregue la palabra: así.
11 – Que se añada la frase: los Pastores.
12 – Que se anule la frase: toda la Asamblea Apostólica.
Razones:
1 – El Concepto de máxima autoridad radicando en los Pastores para que alguien pueda ocupar una posición en la Mesa Directiva General ya lo tenemos en el Artículo 4, inciso VI, que dice: La selección de los candidatos a los ocho puestos de la Mesa Directiva General, se hará por el voto secreto de todos los votantes. O sea, de los Pastores.
2 – El Concepto de máxima autoridad radicando en los Pastores para aprobar una resolución inicial de proceso, ya lo tenemos en el Artículo 75, inciso I.
3 – El Concepto de máxima autoridad radicando en los Pastores para eliminar propuestas iniciativas, incluyendo las de la Mesa Directiva General ya lo tenemos en el Artículo 75, inciso I.
4 – El Concepto de máxima autoridad radicando en los Pastores por encima de análisis de la Mesa Directiva General y comentarios; de la Comisión Revisora y recomendaciones; y de consideraciones y recomendaciones de Reuniones Conjuntas, ya está contemplado en el Artículo 75, ya que el inciso IV define que la rectificación, renovación, ratificación o eliminación es sólo por una resolución del voto pastoral. Esto es, de todos los Pastores.
5 – En base a lo anterior, la voluntad mayoritaria de los Pastores, el voto mayoritario de los Pastores es lo que ha convertido la Constitución en Ley. Bajo la cual se encuentra sujeta la Mesa Directiva General, así como la Asamblea misma. De acuerdo al Artículo 75, los Pastores son la máxima autoridad dentro de la Asamblea, porque finalmente nada puede implementarse si los Pastores no dan su aprobación.
6 – Los conceptos ya están contemplados en la Constitución, pero es necesario que queden claramente definidos para situaciones futuras que se nos pudieren presentar.
7 – Para que todos estemos bajo autoridad, y para que todos demos cuentas siguiendo el espíritu contemplado en (Mat.25:19), “y arregló cuentas con ellos”. De hecho, en el Artículo 7, inciso XI dice que cuando no se cumpla con un acuerdo, el Obispo Presidente deberá informar las razones que impidieron ante la Convención General, es decir, el Presidente tiene que darle una explicación a los Pastores del porqué no se está cumpliendo con acuerdos de Convención.
#2
El Artículo 20, inciso III, dice: Las decisiones de la Mesa Directiva General de la Asamblea Apostólica deben ser respetadas y obedecidas por todo el conjunto ministerial, y sólo podrán ser rectificadas por los acuerdos de una Convención General.
Propongo que el Artículo 20, inciso III, quede como sigue: Las decisiones de la Mesa Directiva General de la Asamblea Apostólica deben ser respetadas y obedecidas por todo el conjunto ministerial, después de haber sido aprobadas por los Pastores de acuerdo al proceso del Artículo 75 de nuestra Constitución, y sólo podrán ser rectificadas por los Pastores en Convención General.
Es decir:
1 – Propongo que se añada la siguiente frase: después de haber sido aprobadas por los Pastores de acuerdo al proceso del Artículo 75 de nuestra Constitución.
2 – Que sea anulada la frase: por los acuerdos de una.
3 – Y que sea sustituida por la frase: por los Pastores en.
Razones:
1 – Para que este inciso III armonice con lo que decreta el Artículo 75 de nuestra Constitución.
2 – Porque se está invirtiendo el orden Constitucional al decidir primero tomar decisiones para luego dar lugar a una rectificación en Convención General por los Pastores. Cuando el orden es, que lo que se quiera decidir, primero tiene que ser canalizado a través de una propuesta iniciativa. Como quedó escrito en la página 3 de nuestra Constitución: “Pero hágase todo decentemente y con orden” (1Cor.14:40).
#3
El Artículo 20, inciso IV, dice: La Mesa Directiva General se reunirá cuando menos una vez al año, para estudiar y resolver todos los problemas de carácter nacional, que requieran una inmediata resolución, ya sea que se presenten inesperadamente o que le hayan sido encomendados por la Convención General. También podrá estudiar y resolver asuntos que por su delicadeza requieran una consideración muy especial y detenida.
Propongo que el Artículo 20, inciso IV, quede como sigue: La Mesa Directiva General se reunirá cuando menos una vez al año, para estudiar y resolver de manera temporal todos los problemas de carácter nacional, que requieran una inmediata resolución, para que cada caso sea ratificado, rectificado, o eliminado en la siguiente Convención General. También podrá estudiar y resolver asuntos que por su delicadeza requieran una consideración muy especial. Y llegada la próxima Convención General, deberán explicar ante los Pastores, qué problemas requirieron una inmediata resolución y qué asuntos delicados estudiaron y cómo los resolvieron para que cada caso sea ratificado, rectificado, o eliminado por el voto mayoritario de los Pastores, habiéndose de usar el tiempo necesario para ello.
Es decir:
1 – Propongo que se añada la frase: de manera temporal.
2 – Que sean anuladas las frases: ya sea que se presenten inesperadamente o que le hayan sido encomendados por la Convención General.
3 – Que sean sustituidas por los siguientes puntos: para que cada caso sea ratificado, rectificado, o eliminado en la siguiente Convención General.
4 – Que se añadan las siguientes frases: Y llegada la próxima Convención General, deberán explicar ante los Pastores, qué problemas requirieron una inmediata resolución y qué asuntos delicados estudiaron y cómo los resolvieron para que cada caso sea ratificado, rectificado, o eliminado por el voto mayoritario de los Pastores, habiéndose de usar el tiempo que sea necesario para ello.
Razones:
1 – Es necesario garantizar que los problemas y los asuntos delicados se traten precisamente así, de manera delicada con todo el temor de Dios que sea posible. Si de acuerdo a la Biblia dos son mejor que uno, con mayor razón alrededor de seiscientos pastores son mejor que ocho.
2 – Está de más el concepto: o que le hayan sido encomendados. Porque cómo se va a necesitar de una inmediata resolución, o se va a presentar de manera inesperada, algo que ya fue encomendado en Convención General. Y porque el pasado nos ha enseñado que nada les es encomendado en Convención General.
3 – Nuestra experiencia de vida Ministerial, a estas alturas nos ha enseñado que se hace necesario que todo, inicialmente, o finalmente, sea supervisado por los Pastores, ratificado, rectificado, o eliminado en Convención General.
4 – Porque por ejemplo, hay casos delicados en que debería de haberse hecho un juicio de acuerdo al Artículo 36 de nuestra Constitución, y no se hizo.
5 – Porque hay casos en que se toman decisiones sobre Ministros, Pastores, y Obispos en que no se hicieron algunas cosas de acuerdo a nuestra Constitución, o que las decisiones son cuestionables.
6 – Para tratar de evitar injusticias y parcialidades hasta donde nos sea posible, evitando también hasta donde nos sea posible conflicto de intereses.
#4
El Artículo 20, inciso VI, dice: La Mesa Directiva General tiene la autoridad para reglamentar la forma en que funcionará la obra de Dios en aquellos estados que tienen leyes y disposiciones distintas a los demás estados del país. También reglamentará lo necesario para el funcionamiento de la Asamblea Apostólica en los distintos países en donde se tenga obra misionera.
Propongo que el Artículo 20, inciso VI, quede como sigue: La Mesa Directiva General tiene la autoridad para reglamentar la forma en que funcionará la obra de Dios en aquellos estados que tienen leyes y disposiciones distintas a los demás estados del país. También reglamentará lo necesario para el funcionamiento de la Asamblea Apostólica en los distintos países en donde se tenga obra misionera, después de haber pasado toda reglamentación por el proceso que define el Artículo 75 de nuestra Constitución.
Es decir:
1 – Propongo que se añada la frase: después de haber pasado toda reglamentación por el proceso que define el Artículo 75 de nuestra Constitución.
Razón:
1 – Porque así está ya decretado el orden para hacer las cosas en el Artículo 75 de la Constitución.
2 – Porque en la página #6 dice: El valor y la fuerza de nuestra constitución está en que cada uno de nosotros la cumpla y la haga cumplir.
#5
El Artículo 20, inciso VIII, dice: La Mesa Directiva General tiene la facultad de ordenar una auditoría de los libros de la Tesorería General, distrital, sectorial y local. Nombrará una comisión o un contador para que revise y certifique los informes que deberán rendirse en las Convenciones Generales, reuniones ordinarias de la Mesa Directiva General, y las convenciones distritales, respectivamente.
Propongo que el Artículo 20, inciso VIII, quede como sigue: La Mesa Directiva General tiene la facultad de ordenar una auditoría de los libros de la Tesorería General, distrital, sectorial y local. Nombrará una comisión o un contador para que revise y certifique los informes que deberán rendirse en las Convenciones Generales, reuniones ordinarias de la Mesa Directiva General, y las convenciones distritales, respectivamente. De la misma manera, el Cuerpo Episcopal tendrá la facultad de ordenar una auditoría de los libros de la Tesorería General de las Oficinas Generales, y de los libros de todas las Tesorerías de las mismas Oficinas cada que lo crean conveniente. Bastará que tres Obispos en común acuerdo elaboren un documento en que les hacen saber a la Mesa Directiva General que consideran necesario una auditoría, y nombrarán una comisión o un contador para que se lleve a cabo en el tiempo que ellos establezcan.
Razones:
1 – La Mesa Directiva General, según este inciso, tiene la facultad para ordenar una auditoría de los libros de la Tesorería General, pero nunca lo ha hecho.
2 – Es necesario que la Mesa Directiva General también sea fiscalizada cuando se considere necesario para mantener una imparcialidad y una supervisión en todos los niveles.
3 – Porque últimamente los informes de Tesorería General que son demandados en el Artículo 12, inciso V, han sido demasiado generales, como en el caso del informe en Noviembre del 2006.
4 – Hay un refrán que dice: El que nada debe nada teme.
i apologize to those that cant read spanish, these proposals took alot of time but with the help of God, i hope that they become a blessing to all of those Pastors who do things Gods way.
Como puede ser Apostolico y no hablan ningun palabra de espanol?
Como?
Que iglesias tenemos ke son puro ingles?
Tienes ke ir a ROP para tomar Espanol Sin Barreras..lol
Hermanos, porke nos levantan un ofrenda especial para mandar nuestra hermano a tijuana a estudiar espanol?
snoop...don't take it in the wrong way...but I like you :)
i think one of issues is that "the church" biblically speaking is a theocratic.
but we vote people in democratically.
oh what is age group of the gen y group? I am 33 myself
Snoopyd
When I say fundamentals, I mean fundamentals in aspects of both the AA and the new organization (should this arise). I hope and pray that both sides acquire a spiritual awakening that neither has ever seen. For the sake of the next generation and the current members a primary fundamental would be exercising the gifts. I am still apart of the AA myself. However, I'd like to see more of these fundamentals incorporated.
cantwejustgetalong said...
I do know that they will be sharing this week with all bishops/elders the timeline from their viewpoint. As well as documents, transcripts, signed affidavits, to show their workings.
It's interesting to hear:
1) They advise taking it to the Pastors
2) They are presenting "Their side"
yet, they made sure to remove any Pastor that might have the boldness to present the Plaintiff's side or refute what the GB will bring up.
At the same time, they put the fear of g.o.d. (that's right god, not God) into the Pastors to ensure they will not speak out. These Generals Of Deceipt believe their own press. They think they are the ultimate authority and answer to no one.
In 1Kings 18:13 Obadiah said "Was it not told my lord what I did when Jezebel slew the prophets of the LORD, how I hid an hundred men of the LORD'S prophets by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water? "
How many Prophets/Pastors are hiding in a cave? Cowering in fear of the General Board
How can anyone representing the Almighty God stand back in fear?????
A SILENCED man of God is no better than a dead one! (Disclaimer: As spoken by Jeff Arnold. No threats being made here)
Fedupwithdeciept:
That the problem with Theocracies in a Democracy, no feedback from the people.
We are literally to expect that Pacheco/Sanchez/Maffey/Prado/Valverde are God's High Prophets?
That stuff only works in Afganistan. Can you say Taliban?
Pues, in our case AposTalibanes.
To Henry:
I know you can't stand it, and you can't bear to hear it. But God has always had a theocratic way of goverment. Theocratic where God rules, not democratic where people rule.
By the way I thought you were UPC, why do you say in "our case".
If you decided to leave the AA, good for you. I respect that, but why are you still obsessed with AA. It seem that you have a love hate relationship with AA. You can't live with it and you can't live with out it.
factsonly1:
upc? Heck no. Apostolico hasta la muerte y ke!
Hasta I'm going to get a tattoo of the Asamblea symbol on my arm.
I'm just saying is that a pure theocratic form of government will not work for us.
Come on bro or sis. Pacheco is our God's annointed? Would God's annointed need to manipulate the Bylaws by amending the constitution to allow the CID or a Calificadora?
Think of it. We have a Theocracy but at the same time we have a Constitution, a 501c3 Non-Profit Corporation, Bylaws, we are formed under the laws of the State of Califorina, a jurisdiction of the United States of America, where the US Consitution is supreme.
Its not like Sanchez/Valverde/Maffey/Prado/Pachuco descended from Heaven in a Cloud......
And what up with Sanchez Presidential Podium Plate:
President of the Apostolic Assembly. Dude swears he's President Bush!
wuuuz uuuupppp!
Al Pestayo Quien te dio esa informacion del Her. Avila? Pues te lavaron el cerebro. La verded es que el concuno se retracto con su promesa en Sept,1991.
Hola A Todos.Que chorixotes escriben, mejor hagan la nueva organisacion,y olvidense de esa que esta ahora.el ponerles condiciones es como tener una mujer la engana y lo enganan y quiere regresar ya no es la misma.
es como el que le gusta el agua jamas va a tomar soda.mejor elijan a Baldemar y losdemas.muchachos no pierdan su tiempo.att.el pestayo Y Que Viva Mexico...
Hola A Todos.Que chorixotes escriben, mejor hagan la nueva organisacion,y olvidense de esa que esta ahora.el ponerles condiciones es como tener una mujer la engana y lo enganan y quiere regresar ya no es la misma.
es como el que le gusta el agua jamas va a tomar soda.mejor elijan a Baldemar y losdemas.muchachos no pierdan su tiempo.att.el pestayo Y Que Viva Mexico...
Mira de avila no lo conosco pero se que su cunado o concuno fue salvador Villegas.y a villegas lo descomulgaron simplemente y sencillamente porque la esposa de villegas le puso los cuernos con un senor de la constru.
y fue precisamente avila quien no lo ayudo sino que le echo mas lena al azador cuando paso este problema.
ahora dicen que la senora anda con uno y con otro.como la cancion de lupillo Rivera Y NO me digas quien es Lupillo RIvera.
Bueno pideme y te doy de todo y si no se lo Investigo aver quien es o que pasteles verdes..sales Att El Pestayo...
QUE VIVA MEXICO HIJOS DE DIOS...
Bueno y disculpen que se me chispotean otros escritos pero estos cuates de la interent o mi computadora esta media loca.
no puedfe leer los chorisos de este cuate del 4 de Julio.Saludos a todos...Desde el estado de guerrero mexico El Pestayo..
QUE VIVA MEXICO.HIJOS DE DIOS,
Pestayo:
"Ya banate no? Ya das mal olor y huele como a purgatorio! Te tomas el agua bendita despues que te banes, y sonrie hombre! Y que viva Mexico!
Che telcas eres un, Amargado hijo de tu mama y de tu papa mas religioso que judas iscariote.con el agua que me bane te dejo un poquito y te puedas tomar el resto sales mi teclas.Bete al Diablo Cono.
Y QUE VIVA MEXICO ATT EL PESTAYO.
To Henry:
I understand we are subject to every authority and that includes earthly or secular authority (which is corrupt, but we still have be subject). Rom. 13
Just like the primitive church was theocratic nevertheless they still subjected themselves to the authority of Rome. Even Jesus as a man subjected himself to human authority. Is authority always right, of course not. That doesn't mean to rebel and disrespect them.
I ask you was king Saul God's anointed. Did Saul sin against God? Did that mean he was not God's anointed anymore. No. David new he was still God's anointed and he never disrespected him.
Another thing that is frustrating is that some people in this blog speak without knowing the facts.
The Calificadora has existed since the beginnings of our organization. It didn't come with the CID. It would do all us well if we actually read the constitution and the history of our church in order to have more informed discussions.
I now you hate Edward Pacheco, but he still is God's anointed. Do you know what anointed means?
If he did something wrong in the
80's I don't know I don't have all the facts. But if he did something wrong and got away with it, take up with Baldemar Rodriguez that was under his watch.
Pestayo en verdad ere Catolico?
Pestayo, en verdad eres Catolico?
Scottywillshowyou,
Your video is nothing but trash.
Full of lies and deceit.
It’s there for all to see and reasonable people that watch it are disgusted.
You feel so proud of your video and it makes you feel important and like a hero, but it’s pathetic. In that video so can see your carnality and rebellion.
1. You and all the people that made a fuss, rebelled against all authority established by God. Against the Elder who was there and was elected by majority of the pastors in the Sector, against the Bishop who was there and elected by the District pastors, Against the Bishop President who was there and was elected by the majority of the pastors in the assembly. You rebelled against them and disrespected them. Following someone who also rebelled.
2. Your video is full of lies: You say you were kicked out but the video shows you and everyone who left walked out on their own. (if you would have put away the camera you could stay there but chose not to).
3. You say you were kicked out of a service when this was a meeting for members only.
4. You’re astonished that they asked non baptized people to leave, how dumb to expect souls to be in a meeting where the pastor is going to be removed.
5. In your video Baldemar Rodriguez said he was removed for asking a question, that’s a lie, he was removed for suing the assembly and rebelling against authority.
6. In your video someone said that most of the people that stayed was because they were offered positions or monetary compensation. This is a lie from hell.
7. In your video one of the Rodriguez girls said all the people that stayed, “none of them pay their tithes” this is another lie from hell.
8. Another man insulted the pastors calling them cowards, no where in the Bible does any Christian or godly person insult their authority even if authority was wrong (which I’m not saying they were wrong in this case). On the contrary the Bible teaches that if you resist authority you resist God.
9. How disgusting when a former Dorca’s District Pres. disrespects a minister of God by calling him a traitor and you tell her to repeat it.
10. In the video you harass decent people coming in the meeting to hear what was to be said.
You proud because you say you showed the truth but it shows lies and rebellion.
Para pestayo Yo no se de donde estas agarrando tu info. pero estas equivocado. En primer lugar el Her. Avila trato de ayudar al Her. Villegas y el que lo quito fue el Her. Sanchez de la GB. Y en cuanto a su ex-esposa es una mujer muy trabajadora y todo el dinero que hicieron lo llegaron a tener gracias a la mama de la ex. Algunos miembros de esa Iglesia desian que su esposa siempre estaba ayudando en todos los trabajos de la iglesia,en la casa y fuere de la casa. Ve a texas para que conozcas la verdad.
"I'm just playing with Pestayo's mind. I have seen his "true colors" already though and just needed to confirm my gut feeling about this character!
Peace out Bloggers and "Good Night Nurse!".
I keep asking for a status of all the plaintiffs and and no one has replied.
I guess that's because they've moved on, when that means that scotty and hank should too.
I'd like to know the status on their buildings considering everyone was all "God is Awesome" and "God will fight out battles" when the GB got served with a restraining order. So what happened to that "restraining order"? Did it hold up?
I know the answer, but just curious if anyone else knows too :)
LA INFAMIA DEL CID
Ahora sí que se portaron como todos unos carnales, han mostrado su falta de ética, han obrado sin compasión y sin misericordia, han no sólo atacado a siervos de Dios y sus familias, sino a las congregaciones, o distritos que estos supervisan o han supervisado.
Debo confesar que cuando vi lo que hizo y como se hizo, lloré, no han pensado que diría el hermano Nava o el hermano Maclovio, el hermano Rivas o Benjamín Cantú, Canutito García o Cirilo Leyba, Isabel Macías, Arturo Hermosillo, Epifanio Cota. Yo sé que unos de ellos eran de México, pero amaban la Asamblea; Dios los tenga en su Santo seno, pues aunque algunos de ellos no eran educados como ustedes, no hacían estas cosas; ahora en la Iglesia hay muchos Doctores y Bachilleres, pero ¿de qué les sirve?
¿Para guiar la Iglesia? ¿A dónde? Al fracaso; a la Asamblea la han colocado y catalogado con Peal Harbor y 911, sepan que el hombre por naturaleza es vengativo y como ustedes se están vengando, otros también se vengarán de ustedes. “No os hagáis muchos maestros, sabiendo que recibiréis mayor condenación”.
Yo traté a los hermanos que menciono y puedo decir que aunque a veces mostraron su humanidad, no atacaron a la Iglesia como ustedes lo han hecho, ellos tenían celo por la Iglesia y por que la amaban, obraban con misericordia y también por que les costó, ellos la vieron crecer desde su infancia, pero ahora, ustedes todo lo están haciendo con odio y venganza y sin o importarles las consecuencias de sus acciones, ustedes no están atacando al hombre, sino a la Iglesia.
Aunque me sobran porciones bíblicas que citar, no lo hago porque como dijo el Apóstol Pablo habiendo comenzado por el espíritu, ahora se han perfeccionado por la carne, lástima de los comentarios del Hermano Sánchez cuando tomó la presidencia, lo oí decir que le debía mucho al Hermano Baldemar; fueron palabras, sólo palabras.
Cuando esto comenzó el único que lo podía haber detenido era el hermano Sánchez, pero como Roboam, siguió el consejo de los mancebos; 1 Reyes 12:10-16. Y el pueblo se dividió.
Viendo lo que ha sucedido, y habiendo leído el mentado CID, puedo decir que debían desecharlo como a un anatema, pues no ha ayudado nada, todo lo que ha causado es división en la Iglesia, pues con él clasifican a las gentes que no quieren que ocupen los puestos de la directiva, pero quien es el que puede decir quien sí y quien no tiene capacidad, idoneidad o derecho,
Lo que hacen es dar autoridad a la mesa calificadora para aprobar a sus amigos o para desaprobar a sus no amigos.
Este mentado CID descalifica a personas que por muchos años han trabajado en la directiva de la Asamblea, que Ironía, que ingratitud, Dios tenga misericordia de NOSOTROS; seguro quien escribió dicha norma, fue inspirado por las fuerzas del hades, por que lo que no se había logrado hacer contra la Iglesia en todas estas décadas, en un día, se logró y se recibió con los brazos abiertos por las personas aquellas a las cuales nada les ha costado el desarrollo sano de nuestra amada Iglesia. Lo que estoy esperando es que no se les vaya a meter en la cabeza tocar al Hermano Jahull o a Isaac Cota, porque entonces sí se van a ver en un grande aprieto. I dare you.
Ante la Iglesia de México, y otras organizaciones no necesariamente del nombre, la Asamblea Apostólica va a venir quedando como una broma, o un símbolo de fracaso y abuso de autoridad.
A los hermanos víctimas de su venganza no los van a ver como deshonrados, sino como a Mártires.
Quizá la mesa directiva no se ha dado cuenta, pero yo sé de muchos diáconos nuevos que han principiado sus propias congregaciones fuera de la Asamblea y muchas de las personas que no han puesto los títulos de las propiedades en el nombre de la Asamblea, bien han hecho pues tienen una muestra de lo que la Organización: Asamblea Apostólica puede hacerles si no aprueban ciegamente sus acuerdos y si cometieron el error de poner las propiedades en el nombre de la Asamblea.
A los hermanos que han destituído por reclamar del fraude que se llevó a cabo en las elecciones, los han dejado en la calle junto con sus familias y congregaciones, ¿esa es la misericordia que práctica la Asamblea Apostólica?
La carnalidad se ha manifestado, lo que se ha hecho, es peor que los pecados dizque mortales reconocidos por la constitución de la Honorable Asamblea, como son: Adulterio, Fornicación, Homicidio, Borracheras y muchos más, cuando alguien comete uno de los pecados citados, le afecto sólo a él o ella, lo que ustedes están haciendo, los afecta a ustedes y a toda la Iglesia del Señor.
En este caso, los que más se han beneficiado son: La Iglesia de México y la UPC, pues los hijos de Dios que han sentido la traición, tienen que buscar abrigo y aunque allá también hay problemas, cuando menos, por el momento no lo saben.
Yo digo que al autor del CID, lo deberían retirar como se hacía con los leprosos en los tiempos antiguos, pues con su diabólica inspiración, ha destrozado lo que se hizo con tantas lágrimas tanto de los siervos de Dios, sus esposas e hijos, yo no soy un ignorante y lo último que dije, lo digo figurativamente, pues sé que para ahorita, ya está bien atrincherado y protegido por las personas que por su desvarío han salido beneficiadas, aunque para alcanzar su objetivo, están matando a muchos,
!¿hasta cuándo Señor?¡
Felicidades Hermano Del Campo, no sabemos de donde necesariamente salió usted, pero ha hecho en un corto tiempo, lo que el diablo no había logrado hacer en los últimos cien años.
P.D. Si no lo sabían, sépanlo, que hay mucha Inquietud en toda la Iglesia.
están advertidos.
its a trip how fools in your church fight for position. I dont hear nobody fighting over souls in prison or on the streets. i think instead of voting fools in, they should start jumping them in, that way the chavalas will be out and the prettyboys will ball up. we need soldiers not position and money loving chavalas.im an ex-gangmember and im fed up with the b.s/ where evangelization ends, ass kicking beggins...
Amados Pastores, ésta carta con fecha 28 de Mayo del 2008 es directamente para ustedes, directamente a sus corazones. ¿Razón? La carta que acaban de recibir en este mes de Mayo del 2008 de parte del Presidente Sánchez en donde están dando una supuesta información sobre la demanda.
Carta que hizo que me hirviera la convicción que me corre por las venas además de la sangre.
Y para mi sorpresa, aunque a estas alturas ya no me sorprende nada de parte de la presente Mesa Directiva General, reitero, para mi sorpresa, antes de pasar a tratarles el tema a ustedes, resulta que principian con la Escritura en (Santiago 3:13-18). Como si ellos fueran tan temerosos y sujetos a lo que la Biblia dice. Como si todo lo que han hecho desde Noviembre del 2006 hasta la fecha, lo hubieran hecho dentro del marco de la Palabra de Dios. Y por supuesto, la Escritura la están usando en contra de los demandantes y no de ellos.
¿Qué acaso ellos han sido sabios y entendidos entre los Pastores?¿Que acaso sus obras de fraude, mentira, hipocresía, y daño en contra de compañeros en el ministerio mostraron una buena conducta especialmente en sabia mansedumbre en las elecciones de Noviembre del 2006?
¿Quiénes fueron los que tuvieron celos? La palabra (celos) es traducida en su etimología griega como (envidia) ¿Quiénes fueron los que envidiaron las otras posiciones para sus familiares?¿Que no fue Valverde siendo cómplice para que quedara su primo Edward Pacheco?¿Que no fue Sánchez siendo cómplice para que quedara su cuñado Arturo Espinoza, por mencionar sólo dos ejemplos?
¿Quiénes son los que han provocado contención? R: Los cinco miembros de la nefasta Comisión Calificadora. Pero la responsabilidad delante de Dios cae especialmente sobre Sánchez y Valverde.
¿Quiénes se han jactado, es decir, quienes han hecho alarde de su Autoridad atropellando con ella?
¿Quiénes son los que han mentido en contra de la verdad? R: La actual Mesa Directiva General.
Pastores. ¡POR FAVOR! Lean las declaraciones al Juez escritas y firmadas de parte de Sánchez, Martín del Campo, y Misael Zaragoza. ¡POR FAVOR COMPARENLAS! Con lo que dicen los Artículos 4, 5, 10, y 75 de nuestra Constitución. ¡POR FAVOR! Lean lo que dijo el Juez sobre el documento que ha traído tanta desgracia al ministerio y a la Iglesia llamado CID, pensando lo que decreta el Artículo 75. Todo ello se encuentra aquí mismo en esta página de internet (apostolicassembly.info)
La sabiduría que venía de lo alto es la que hizo que los Pastores escribieran el nombre del Obispo Daniel Salomón para que recibiera mayoría de votos como Secretario reelecto, y no a favor de Edward Pacheco. La sabiduría que venía de lo alto es la que hizo que los Pastores escribieran el nombre del Obispo Juan Fortino para que recibiera mayoría de votos como Secretario de Misiones, y no a favor de Arturo Espinoza. ¿Quiénes son los que usaron de sabiduría que no venía de lo alto, terrenal, animal y diabólica? R: La Comisión Calificadora de Noviembre del 2006.
¿Por qué es que la Comisión Calificadora usó de sabiduría terrenal, animal, y diabólica? Porque ellos, con toda alevosía, premeditación, y ventaja (por estar con la autoridad abusiva, y escondidos tomando decisiones humanas). Decidieron hacer a un lado absolutamente TODOS los votos de los Pastores.
Votos que acababan de dar producto de la sabiduría de lo alto que Dios acababa de dar minutos antes.
Y usando de sabiduría terrenal, animal, y diabólica, hicieron lo que la Constitución NO DICE que se haga. Hicieron lo que ni en el apócrifo CID dice que se haga, es decir, que los cinco miembros de la nefasta (que ha traído desgracia) Comisión Calificadora, votaron nuevamente por los que los Pastores ya habían votado. Y LA COMISION CALIFICADORA LE DIO MAYORIA DE VOTOS A LOS QUE LOS PASTORES LES HABIAN DADO MINORIA DE VOTOS. ¿Es esto sabiduría terrenal, animal, y diabólica, o no?
Reitero, lean las declaraciones al Juez de Daniel Sánchez e Ismael Martín del Campo (02/21/08).
Los de la Comisión Calificadora, por no decir Sánchez y Valverde, son los que celaron los puestos para quienes ellos querían poner. Son ellos los que han provocado esta contención, por eso es que, ALLI, lo que se hizo a escondidas de los Pastores, pero no de Dios, en las elecciones fraudulentas del 2006, hubo perturbación para el Ministerio y como consecuencia para toda la Asamblea, y toda obra perversa. (Perversa, del griego faúlos, es decir, (obra necia) (obra con fallas).
¿Qué acaso no es una necedad hacer a un lado la sabiduría que venía de lo alto a través de los Pastores, para poner por obra los planes terrenales de ellos?¿Que no hay suficiente evidencia a estas alturas por todo el daño que se ha hecho a la Asamblea, de que en lo que hicieron SANCHEZ Y VALVERDE en ése día de elecciones, hubo fallas? Siendo cómplices ARTURO ESPINOZA, FELIPE GAXIOLA, y CELESTINO GUZMAN.
Y termina la porción bíblica diciendo: Pero la sabiduría que es de lo alto es primeramente pura, después pacífica, amable, benigna, llena de misericordia y de buenos frutos, sin incertidumbre ni hipocresía. Y el fruto de justicia se siembra en paz para aquellos que hacen paz.
¿La Comisión Calificadora causó paz con la sabiduría que usó en las elecciones?¿Es fruto de justicia dañar carreras ministeriales?¿Que no es hipocresía decir que no se hizo ninguna violación a la Constitución?¿Que no es hipocresía decirle una cosa a los Pastores, y escribir otra cosa muy distinta al Juez el 21 de Febrero del 2008?
¿Que no causó incertidumbre el que el Presidente le diera el resultado de las elecciones incluyendo los votos a Celestino Guzmán para que los fuera a ESCONDER a Illinois?
Pastores, el asunto es muy sencillo. ¿Qué hubiera pasado si Sánchez y Valverde más incondicionales de la Comisión Calificadora hubieran aceptado la sabiduría que vino de lo alto a través de los Pastores, y hubieran honrado la mayoría de votos en cada ronda del Proceso electoral, y hubieran dejado a los Ministros que Dios escogió a través de los Pastores, para que ocuparan las posiciones HOY USURPADAS?
Respuesta: Hubiera sucedido NADA de todo lo que ha pasado en nuestra supuesta amada Asamblea.
No existieran correos electrónicos del Obispo Baldemar Rodríguez dirigidos al Presidente. No existieran correos electrónicos ni cartas del Obispo Abel Torres dirigidos al Presidente. No existiera la Carta del Obispo Daniel Jauhall dirigida al Presidente y Vicepresidente.
No existieran cartas del Obispo Arturo Tafoya, ni lo hubieran amenazado, ni lo hubieran citado un 18 de Abril del 2007, ni lo hubieran tratado como lo trataron. No hubiera habido una Reunión Conjunta con los Obispos el 18 de Abril del 2007, ni las voces en esa Reunión buscando justicia del Obispo JUAN HERNANDEZ y el Obispo Arturo Tafoya.
No existiera el hecho de que el Presidente hubiera andado viajando para arrodillarse ante ciertos Ministros, y CONFESANDO que cometieron errores, y que sí sacaron los votos, pero dando justificaciones que no tienen justificación, y pidiendo que no hicieran nada de aspecto legal.
Lástima que esto no lo hizo ante los Pastores, y más lástima es que nunca rectificó, y mucha más lástima es que NI PIENSA HACERLO, sinceramente, el Presidente de la Asamblea Apostólica ES DIGNO DE LASTIMA.
No hubiera existido ninguna demanda, ni hubiera actualmente una Apelación, no existieran demandantes ni consentidores, no hubiera una página de internet (apostolicasembly.info), ni existieran ninguna de las cartas o documentos en dicha página.
No existieran blogs ni los cientos de comentarios que están en ellos, NO EXISTIERA EL PESIMO TESTIMONIO que tiene la Mesa Directiva General ante la Iglesia, ni ante el mundo evangélico, ni especialmente ante el Príncipe de los Pastores, no hubiera corazones enfermos de esposas, hijos, familiares y amigos de miembros de la Mesa Directiva General.
No existiera lo que muchos Pastores sienten en sus corazones, decepción, frustración, tristeza. NO EXISTIERA EL DESEO DE VENGANZA DE LA MESA DIRECTIVA CONTRA LOS DEMANDANTES. No existiera la venganza y persecución ya puesta en acción desde Diciembre del 2007 contra Pastores consentidores de la demanda.
Y la persecución y ejecución que todo apunta a que ya viene en camino en contra de los demandantes POR EL PECADO DE QUERER QUE SE HONRE EL VOTO DE LOS PASTORES, por querer que se honre la Constitución.
No existiera el hecho de que algunas congregaciones ya no están en la Asamblea, ni que otras lo más probable es que tampoco estarán, así como algunos Ministros. No fuera a existir lo que todavía ni nos imaginamos que pueda pasar, pero que lamentablemente pasará.
SI TAN SOLO SANCHEZ Y VALVERDE HUBIERAN ACEPTADO LA SABIDURIA QUE VENIA DE LO ALTO.
Qué tristeza que se cumpla (1Pedro 4:15-16), en los que quizás muy pronto, hablando en figura, sean expatriados de sus Pastorados y de sus iglesias, es decir, los demandantes. Y dice así: Así que, ninguno de vosotros padezca como homicida, o ladrón, o malhechor, o por entremeterse en lo ajeno; pero si alguno padece como cristiano, no se avergüence, sino glorifique a Dios por ello.
Y la tristeza es que los cristianos padecían por los Césares romanos, o por los celosos guardadores de la Ley de Moisés, pero en este caso, nuestros hermanos Baldemar Rodríguez, Daniel Salomón, Abel Torres, y Saúl Avila, están padeciendo por sus propios hermanos de la Mesa Directiva General, quienes CAUTERIZADOS DE LA MENTE, ya están próximos a descargar su venganza contra ellos.
¿Que no causó incertidumbre el que la Comisión Calificadora LE DIERA MAYORIA DE VOTOS A QUIENES LOS PASTORES LES DIERON MINORIA DE VOTOS, y que hubieran incluido a familiares escogidos?
La Mesa Directiva General ¿Ha sido misericordiosa, benigna, amable y pacífica, persiguiendo a consentidores y demandantes para destruirlos? Ya dañaron a dos Pastores y a un Obispo, ya se están escuchando fechas de visitación en relación a los demandantes, pero no creemos que será para ser pacíficos, ni amables, ni benignos, y mucho menos misericordiosos.
Ya están seleccionados los Verdugos que van a visitar para ejecutar a los demandantes, mientras el Presidente (con un corazón destrozado por el dolor de lo que les va a suceder a los demandantes) Se fue a pasear a Italia.
Por eso, Amados Pastores, es que me hirvió la convicción que me corre por las venas. Al leer la carta que les fue enviada, y al ver la Escritura que escogieron, y al leer las mentiras escritas en esa carta. Me hierve la convicción al ver que se dirigen a ustedes, escribiendo: Estimados Pastores: Paz de Cristo.
Yo me pregunto, ¿ENTIENDEN LA BURLA HACIA USTEDES? ¿La Mesa Directiva General supuestamente tomándolos en cuenta a ustedes? No se les olvide que el Presidente Sánchez y el Vicepresidente Valverde junto con sus cómplices de la Comisión Calificadora, en las Elecciones del 2006 LOS IGNORARON.
Ignoraron absolutamente TODOS los Votos de ustedes, les faltaron al respeto teniéndolos como tontos votando para nada. NO SE LES OLVIDE QUE SOLO LOS CINCO VOTOS DE LA COMISION CALIFICADORA TUVIERON VALOR PARA ELLOS.
Y no se les olvide que TODA la actual Mesa Directiva General ha estado siendo cómplice de todo.
No hay confusión alguna, no hay dudas, no hay sombras ni sospechas de nada, Dios que es justo sacó todo a luz, Sánchez, Martín del Campo, y Misael Zaragoza tuvieron que escribir el Proceso de lo que hicieron en ése día Electoral del 2006.
Y no hay confusión ni dudas, al contrario, no hay dudas de que cometieron FRAUDE, y de que MINTIERON, y de que dañaron compañeros del Ministerio, y de que han dañado a toda la Asamblea.
Ellos han causado toda distracción por usar sabiduría diabólica. No hay escritos incorrectos dentro de los demandantes o consentidores de la demanda, y muchos sí estamos debidamente informados, y las cartas y palabras de ánimo y apoyo que dicen recibir, sencillamente son de gente sin principios ni temor de Dios como ellos, o ignorantes y engañados por ellos, o que viendo no quieren ver.
Pastores, Dios obre para que en sus venas también hierva una convicción que les haga unificarse y hacer algo al respecto.
¿Van ustedes a PERMITIR que se cometa más INJUSTICIA en contra de nuestros hermanos que han dado la cara por todos nosotros? No se les olvide por qué nuestros hermanos están siendo perseguidos y gravemente perjudicados, más otros que también lo serán.
Factsonly1
It is more than obvious that you are more than facts only!!! What are you getting? A TITLE!!!!!! Or just butt kissing!!!!!!!!!! The video is there and shows how people acted no lie to that just facts!!!Thats where the facts are at, they are so real and can be seen no question! SO GET OFF YOUR BITTER HORSE!!!!!!!!AND JUST LIVE FOR GOD!!!!!!!
I've had writer's block for afew days now. I just dont know what to say, other then "Its a sad day in the AA".
The interview went well, Pastor Avila I can tell you has moved on.
That my friends is a lost for the AA, he expressed love to the people of the AA, he did not bash, simply he stated why he was ex-communicated. All was said with a humble spirit.
Pastor Rodriguez, is a stong man, he too will continue to do the work of God. Never once did he talk bad about the gb, he just stated what has taken place. And he too expressed love to friends and the people of the AA.
Regardless of who's side you are on we need to pray for one another, this was a blow to the AA that will have years of repercussions.
Many lost respect for the leadership of the AA, many are just down right mad.
I know of Bishops who are extremely upset, I know of Pastors who already held meeting with their ministers and are totally against the leadership of the AA.
Some are planning to incorp. locally just in case...
90% of the pastors and ministers that I've talked to are against the gb but are not going to say a thing! They are hoping next elections to just vote everyone out and start anew. I know of some that will walk out when Sam Valverde preaches in Union City this month I believe, but what good will that do?
I can tell you that those who spokeout on this blog, you did make a difference! Infact everyone here played a role in what will be the outcome of the AA in the near future. The gb was moved...
I hope that although the brethern were ex-out by the gb, that we as the church do not cut these brothers off, Thank you to those of you who have called to express support. So who won? Nobody won, infact we all lost.
I'm going to do my best to assist in helping to form a fellowship that will bring some type of unity. I hope we are all mature to understand we're not enemies, things just happen.
There will be a meeting this week, I will not be there, I hope some who attend will be able to speak up without fear. But I dont think anyone will.
We can continue to go in circles or right the wrongs!
To this generation, what will you do?
While on the Internet, I came upon your Apostolic News Blog. I am not a member nor acquainted with your church organization but have read some of the comments. I grieve with what is happening to the Body of Christ – His people! If I feel this way, not knowing you all, can you imagine how the Holy Spirit has been grieved?
I am assuming that this organization started humbly yearning with a burden for souls and as membership grew so did the finances; and, then leaders started taking their focus off their calling which turned into power and control of the people and money. Seems like these men have controlled you by them not letting you publicly express your opinions, and used your financial giving for their personal benefits.
It would have been honorable of the board to have open communications with its ministers and congregation and honestly discussed the problems openly at hand without having them to feel threaten. It would have eliminated such conflict and perhaps the problem could have been solved.
Through your comments I can feel your hurt and frustration. God will give you the answer and uphold you if you boldly unite together in fasting and prayer. It’s not worth stressing yourselves and putting your physical health in danger too. The devastation you folks have gone through is of the devil and identifies it as so.
God holds us responsible for where we plant our seed (tithes and offerings). It should be planted in good soil. Start fresh with someone you feel is a sincere leader and has God’s favor. The coming of the Lord is near and God has great things for those who trust in Him.
I probably won’t be following your blog but will be in prayer that God will comfort and heal all of you.
May God’s Peace Be With You.
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Read what Evangelist Jonathan Suber has to say about them:
Three major distinctions highlight the unique position of the Apostolic World Christian Fellowship.
Fellowship without Control- This is a group of like-minded men and women who celebrate the autonomy of the local church. Ministries that are extremely diverse in style, culture, and doctrinal distinctions come together as the Body of Christ in World Evangelism and Harvest. Although there is structure and leadership for the necessities of doing business, there is no hierarchy or control. It is truly a band of brothers! The Blood of Jesus and the glorious call of the Cross alone link us together as a Band of Brothers!
Evangelization without Colonization- The celebration of racial and international diversity is one of the greatest attributes of the AWCF. In meetings all over the United States, we have witnessed such unity among different races, denominations and cultures. This is even more evident with the International Ministries Department of the AWCF. Under the covering of Bishop Smith, our International Ministries Coordinator Bishop David Fuller has done a tremendous job networking ministries from all across the globe. Our mission is simply The Great Commission! We are meeting Apostolic groups from around the world that are searching for an Apostolic structure and community without having to surrender their national or cultural identities. It is so exciting to celebrate the uniqueness of the indigenous churches while coming beside them to only encourage and strengthen without asking them to surrender their autonomy!
Covering and Accountability- The AWCF is primarily a network of Bishops, Senior Pastors, and denominational leaders that maintain fellowship and position within ones perspective area of ministry and influence. However, there is an accountability structure in place where the independent, autonomous ministry can thrive within the fellowship while maintaining ones unique distinctions. So many ministries are finding the AWCF to be a place where one can be open, honest, and allowed to follow ones individual passion and calling! Each time I meet new friends through this alliance, I am amazed at the mutual respect and desire for true unity among New Testament Apostolics. Although I pastor an independent church, I do not consider myself to be alone or without accreditation and accountability. I appreciate so much the men and women of the AWCF that have afforded us a home and true New Testament Christian Koininia!
If you are searching for a place to belong while continuing your unique journey in ministry, I would highly recommend The Apostolic World Christian Fellowship.
cantwejustgetalong
Maybe YOU should move on. For someone who picked a handle like the one you did for yourself you sure are demonstrating the exact opposite.
Get the hint buddy no one cares what you have to say.
Factsonly1:
Pacheco is God's annointed? LOL
Boy, you really know how to make a person laugh!
How is that FOOL annointed? The only annointing he recieved was from his primo Sam, who just happens to be VP.
Any possibility that there might be a corrolation?
Come on dude, its all politics. Nothing more, nothing less.
If I recall, the pastors Prayed BEFORE they voted.
God's Will be done.
Then the Calificadora responded.
Calificadora over ruled the Pastors and Selected the current GB.
Did God change His mind?
Or did Valverde change God's mind for Him?
Henry, If you will allow me I'd like to answer that question?
The gb just decided that it was not God's church, it was their's, so they kept it in the family...
They did'nt like God's pick, and since they are the gb, they felt God should just sit down and not talk.
I'm sure they're planing on ex-communicating God too...
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