AV
- Abel Torres - LYNCHED I
- Saul Avila - LYNCHED
- Baldemar Rodriguez - LYNCHED
- Daniel Solomon - LYNCHED
- Arthur Tafoya
- Daniel Jauhall
- Isaac Cota
- Ishmael Arellano
- Julian Aguirre
- Richard Galaviz
- Samuel Arellano
- Guillermo Mendoza - LYNCHED
- Martin Vasquez
- Herman Garza
- Efrain Andrade - LYNCHED
- Isaac Hernandez - LYNCHED*
*Not 2006 Election related
3,402 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1201 – 1400 of 3402 Newer› Newest»Every1 KEEPS pointing to the PAST... WELL YOU KNOW WHAT!!
THATS IT.. IT WAS THE PAST. THIS IS NOW!
IN THE PAST THERE WAS NO ISSUE WITH VOTER FRAUD... NOW ... THERE IS!!
You all Say BR did the same thing... and how does he like it now??
YOU NEED TO STOP LOOKING INTO THE PAST OR SHOW SOME PROOF THAT THE GB IN HIS DAY WERE NOT VOTED IN CORRECTLY...
BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THIS WHOLE THING IS ABOUT!!
VOTER FRAUD!!!
AND THE SAD PART IS
THE GB KNOWS IT...
So keep pointing to the past If you wish...
-Skotty
P.S. FROM M. GALLEGOS
They did this!
They divided the church of God!
They were unethical!
They committed this act of wrong to the church!
Carlos: You got me reading the constitution with your post.
***I'm not trying to argue with you, just an open discussion***
Read Ch 19, Art 64, Sec IV. Where does this line up with your post? I agree there seems to have been no trial, but under this Section, is a trial warranted?
This is interesting.
Skotty-
Relax man, your gonna pull a groin muscle... or should I say it in that deep voice from the video? REEELLLLLAAAAXXX (imagine it in that low tone voice - wow that is moving!)
No Baldemar was not voted in fraudulently as far as I know. ( any proof of if is gone the way of the Yugo) So you ask then why mention the past? Because the AA doomed it self and repeated some of the same mistakes. What are those mistakes? What is at the root here? Ethical failures as leaders (decisions they made). Now everyone will have their definition of what that is, but those that bring up the past are merely stating that those in past boards have there little black books as well and had every opportunity to fix the issues back then...
Just ask Baldemar about a certain former bishop in the great northwest that was sleeping with 16 year-olds (2 at a time) and then running rough shot as a bishop. Finally a Pastor sued the assembly and called him out. What did he do (speaking of Baldemar)? He asked the Pastor to take back his lawsuit... Well the assembly lost... What did they do with that bishop? Call the cops (statutory rape)? No? Sent him packing to his new job working for one of the school districts!
You know what, yeah your right lets not bring up the past as a reflection of the mess that has gone on since the days of zoot suits and 25 cent churros. Sorry I ever brought it up... so how do I delete this?
Modern preacher,
Great catch!
Ch 19, Art 64, Sec V is even more on target. It states:
V. Whenever a pastor acts against the doctrinal principles, economic system, or organizational system of the Apostolic Assembly, or are otherwise cause harm to the Church, he shall be judged by the respective supervising bishop. The pastor can be ceased from the pastorate and should surrender the local church under his care, if the supervising bishop and the Bishop President should determine.
Bro. Baldemar was obvioulsy against the "organizational system of the Apostolic Assembly." His lawsuit is evidence of that.
Nowhere here does it state that a "trial" needs to take place. The
decision-making power is clearly left to the supervising bishop and the Bishop President, hence Bishop Lugo's presence at the Wed. church meeting.
Whether you like it or not, they were following the Constitution to the letter. Don't think for a second that they didn't seek legal advice before they ousted these pastors. Judging by the whooping their attorney gave to the Plaintiff's attorney, I'd feel very comfortable following his advice.
WOW...
YET ANOTHER HOLE IN THE CONSTITUTION...
BTW IT STATES "HE SHOULD SURRENDER"
NO WHERE DOES IT STATE HE MUST SURRENDER OR THAT THE AA AND the "Godly Boys" can FORCEFULLY TAKE IT AWAY, IN SUCH A RIDICULOUS/DISRESPECTFUL/IDIOTIC MANNER!!...
SWISS CHEESE PEOPLE... THATS ALL THE CONSTITUTION IS...
UNDER THE AA CONSTITUTION
FRAUD = OK???
next one to find another hole wins a prize!
Skotty
You make a good point..it states "should" and doesn't mention anything of the "force".
What I want to know is, is there anything in the consitution about the members?
So lets say there is no forgiveness for the pastor, what if a member decides to return to the AA years later?
Due to the fact that the members are ex-communicated, I'm assuming theres no hope.
The Shorts Were Not THE issue...
plus if you were there, TEHN YOU SEEN My Confrontation At The Door Right?
You Seen The pUSHER pushing me and Clutching My Arm... AGAINST MY MOMENTUM which Could Have Done Some Serious Damage To My ELBOW!
So once again ... if you were there... which i don't doubt ... and you seen what went down... hOW COULD YOU STATE THAT I DISRESPECTED the house of the LORD???
They Disrespected the house By Not Allowing SoulS IN & by kicking out BAPTIZED MEMBERS!
OH but i guess its ok right?
lets all just Look away when it comes to the "Godly Boys"
Doing Something WRONG RIGHT??
-YEAH thats what i thought...
Skotty,
You're like a fly that won't go away. First of all, please stop from writing in caps. Do you know internet etiquette? It means that you're SCREAMING. The more you write, the more I get the feeling that you're a 17-yr old kid in summer break with waaaay too much time on your hands.
Little boy, you obviously don't know how to interpret text. The constitution clearly says:
"The pastor can be ceased from the pastorate and should surrender the local church under his care, if the supervising bishop and the Bishop President should determine."
In other words, if the supervising Bishop and Bishop president so determine, the pastor HAS to surrender the church. It's not giving him an option.
Oh, and show me where the judge says that our Constitution is "swiss cheese?" If the plaintiffs win, I don't think you'd be arguing that our constitution is "swiss cheese," would you?
Bottom line, the judge took our governing document (our constitution) and found no proof of fraud.
Yea those ushers can be very tough. Its all that mixed martial arts training that they get that really makes them dangerous. I remember when Kimbo Slice was ushering years back... Oh that's right, its in the past, never mind...
OF COURSE IM SCREAMING... DUMMY!
geeze...
HAHA i said nothing about a judge... what are you implying?
C'mon people. Do a little reading, analyze the Constitution, re-read the Judge's opinion before you make uninformed and, frankly, ignorant posts.
Everyone continues to scream "fraud!" yet a Superior Court judge analyzed our governing document and found no fraud. Are you people that ignorant and/or obtuse not to understand that?
The judege did not find fraud. But that does mean that it was ethical.
Skotty,
You said that our Constitution is "swiss cheese." Is that your own personal opinion? Do you have any legal training whatsoever or are you relying on someone's interpretation? If so, who'se interpretation are you relying on? What are his/her qualifications?
sola,
Now we're getting somewhere! So, please tell me why 99% of those on this blog still continue to cry "fraud!" every chance they get? Are your comrades that dim?
As to the ethics behind this, I may not agree 100% with the way things went down, but you can't argue that they don't have the authority to do what they're doing.
Skotty,
You call me dummy, yet your posts speak for themselves.
Let's compare resumes.
its a Simile ... duh...
not a Smiley! SIMILE
it is similar to swiss cheese ... i have come up with that after seeing BOTH CARLO'S POST AND APOWW...
both contradict eachother...
btw III comes Before V... so why wasnt there a trial?
Skipping steps???
strong believer in god
You must be Bro. Sergio Maffey or Bro. Paul Gonzalez! I don't think Bro. Guerra would talk in this manner and the only other person their twice in the video on the same day was you, Bro. Guerra, and Bro. Paul Gonzalez. I don't believe Bro. Guerra would have time to be on the blog.
If you are Bro. Maffey, that picture of you and your cousin Jacob is sad. Do you notice the body language between you two though? Bro. Jacob is standing straight but sad and you're slouching and with a smirky grin.
Skotty:
Can you tell us what happened in that picture of Bro. Lugo. I heard someone else took and asked the Bro. to put his hands down because she didn't want a picture of him like that. She even tried to respect him in that way! I heard this straight from her mouth! She said he threw up his hands again anyway!
Is this true? And if so, do you have witnesses besides you?
ok so the judge said no fraud??
so 2 votes CAN WIN... wow
IT MAKES SOOOO MUCH SENSE NOW!
Easy.
Most people look at this issue from the secular side. What is your authority people. If you are going to claim Christianity as your beleif system, then the scriptures need to prevail in this matter.
it is 100% TRUE!
She Told Him Not TO Do THAT!
And he didnt stop... so she snapped the picture.. and now he looks ... well you know what he looks like right?
apoww08
The way the constitition reads and with the implementation of the CID, anyone can president of the Assembly. It's a scam.
Another question I have...regarding the AA constitution. It states the following:
D. THE LEGALITY OF THE CHURCH
The Constitution provides a legal framework for churches to develop their ministries in fulfillment of federal, state, country, and local laws of the United States of America. This framework also promotes respect for the laws of each country with missionary works.
This is a good statement, however isn't it true, as shown in the video that this statement was not taken into account? The GB violated the laws of the United States of America and did not show respect for them when the USA Citizens proclaimed their right to be at the church because any church in the USA is considered a "public area"?
You know what, since I brought up this word "ethics" it has reminded me of a conversation I overheard during dinner one day. It was Sherman Klump and he was asked about being caught in an "Ethical Quandary"
I believe his response would shed some light on people that take videos in shorts. He said that he doesn't know much about Efficals. And that Quandaries, well he really didn't like Quandaries as he was more of a Volvo man himself.
That was some deep stuff. Skotty lets reflect on those words. MAYBE IT CAN HELP YOU STOP SCREAMing.... Breath in, Breath out, Wax on, Wax off...
Skotty,
Are you serious? Your argument in calling our constitution "swiss cheese" is because Carlos and I supposedly contradict each other?
You do realize that what Carlos is referring to and what I quote are two distinct sections of the Constitution that are totally unrelated?
The basis of your argument is that, since the "trials" section in the constitution is before the "organization of the local church" section of the Constitution, then the GB "skipped" steps! How idiotic is that!
AA Member Watching Movies???
Why do people frown on the way people dress?
Where is the love of God?
That is why I like how Bro. Sam does run his church in that way. He lets the people go however they want!
Kudos to Bro. Sam Valverde for allowing his members to come as they are, pants, died hair, jewelry, ...
It's to bad he got involved in his mess!
Very!
Considering that YOU Chose Not TO look under The Trials And Removals Chapter 14... eh?
StorNG bELIVER... where are you???
Sola,
Why is it a scam? The CID calls for nominees to office to be considered as to their capabilities, qualities and rights. In other words, this prevents the Skottys of the world to be voted into office. What else do you want?
HAHAHA
WOW Just called the AA...
Wouldnt Answer N E Questions regarding CHAPTER FOURTEEN OF THE constitution because i brought up BR...
but thank you AA For taking some time To Talk To ME!
Movies? Who's watching movies? I hear that's bad. Not me, nope, just wholesome cable television for me. I can watch "The Deadliest Catch" all night!
Apoww08.
It’s a scam because they can get any two pastors to vote for someone they want and eliminate who they don’t want with the CID. Come on you knew that. I’ve seen it happen in the local church many times.
The have removed the power of the vote from the pastors.
Incase anyone missed the pictures of the 'Birdman', here's a link:
http://picasaweb.google.com/I.be.Fed.UP/ThePachuecoBoard
Ok Ok
so IT seems that we have all lost focus...
THIS IS ABOUT VOTES people...
2 Votes!
Modernprreacher,
this is what the constitution says
IV.No pastor can assume responsibility over a church if he disagrees with the doctrinal principles and the economic and organizational system of the Apostolic Assembly. If during the practice of his ministry, a pastor shall reach a different opinion regarding specific doctrinal points or the organizational system, he shall present his objections to the district bishop, who will consider them and determine a course of action, after consulting with the Bishop President. We believe that Christian ethics justifies us in requiring that every minister who disagrees with the doctrinal principles or organizational system of our Church, resign from his duties, and abstain from causing damage,dishonor, and division within the church. Whoever acts in this manner, shall be called by the constituted authorities of the Apostolic Assembly to consider his reasons and make a determination to apply justice to the case.
good point, modern preacher, however i must point a few things.
1) The constitution never commands the removal of said pastors. read it well. it is very abstract. a legal document such as this should be very precise and "cookie cutter"
2) Whenever something is added to a constitution that is contradictory to itself, it must be added as an amendment or at least reference the contradiction as an exception. For example, when it orders a pastor to be tried, it should say the exceptions is disagreement with doctrine, etc.
Most people will agree. It contradicts itself with the previous statement that entitles the pastor to a trial and witnesses. IT DOES NOT SPECIFY THAT THE EXCEPTION IS WHENEVER A PASTOR IS IN DISAGREEMENT WITH THE DOCTRINE OR ORGANIZATION SYSTEM. Swiss cheese, indeed.
3)That being said, can't ALL potential "uh-oh's" of a Pastor be considered disagreements with the doctrine and organization, etc? If a pastor is accused of stealing money, then mustn't he be instantly removed as well? That is very well a sign of disagreement or dis accord with the constitution. The articles i referenced before protect a pastor against such action and they do not specify exceptions, so they must STAND.
5) Doesn't the constitution also prohibit use of jewelry? Bro Sam Valverde openly disagrees with this clause and allows his members to use wedding bands. this is hear from friends that attend FOT. Why wasn't the same procedure done with him. Do i smell selective law enforcement?
4) what about willie mendoza? he had NOTHING to do with the allegations yet he was removed in the same manner baldemar, torres, and avila were. NO TRIAL. NO WITNESSES.
5) I'm looking through my version of the ORIGINAL constitution and i do not find that specific clause... can someone clarify? when was this added? what changes does the 2004 version feature? were they done before or after the election?
btw excuse the tardiness of my response. i was running errands. :)
and we are all still anxiously awaiting the contingency plan and tap dance.
HAHA
they say they did an Investigation of the Counting Of the Votes...
Can Anyone Guess who Spearheaded the Investigation...???
YUP UR RIGHT... GB AND THEIR PEOPLE...
so of course they found nothing wrong with the way the votes were counted...
hello how is everyone doing???
Lunica,
ptl sister. how are you? you are from bro Salomon's church, correct?
sola,
Voting for a board member is not a popularity contest. This ain't junior high.
If voting for our officials were a popularity contest, then we'd have President Gore instead of President Bush, becuse Gore won the popular vote, but lost in the electoral college.
Just simple civics, that's all.
Apoww08
Then why have the pastors’ vote. Assign someone. That’s exactly what they did. When they created the CID, they said, “we don’t trust you”. If you are a pastor, I would be very upset.
sola
You make good arguments. I agree with you.
Why couldn't they just say..."Look this is how it is, this is how it's going to be and that's it" (since according to many this is what the consitution portrays).
The AA already knew there was going to be a split, they just went about it the wrong way and didn't think anyone was going to stand up for themselves. They really thought everyone was just going to leave and be okay with it.
I guess the AA had the premeditated thought of (or song I should say) "Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I think I'm gonna eat some woooorrrrmmss..."
So, by your logic, our electoral system in the U.S. is also flawed.
Because, as you may or may not know, the electoral college is not bound by the people's vote. They can take into consideration in deciding who to cast their vote for, but it's not a requirement for them to simply go with the guy with the most votes.
The CID, in this instance, is our version of the electoral college.
bullsdroppings.
the electoral college system is HARDLY like the CID. it is based on regions/areas. not on someone's biased decision. and although some presidents have won the electoral but not popular vote, it has NEVER been by a large margin. it has been moderately close.
now 400 votes and 2 votes, is a considerable margin.
so BAD example.
Apoww08
One more thought for you. When Peter and the eleven voted for Matthias, I can’t imagine they pulled out their CID.
And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
Acts 1:24-26
well fearless bloggers, i'm off on a not so fearless mission... a HAIRCUT! be back in 30 min!
Apoww08
Once again, you are trying to bring the world into the church.
apo
Since you're bringing in world politics..lets go a bit further..
The U.S.A. is a Democracy.
Democracy - Rule by a government where the people as a whole hold the power. It may be exercised by them (direct democracy), or through representatives chosen by them (representative democracy).
The AA...hmm..what can we define them as..?
Anarchy ?- Absence, or lack of government.
Despotism ?- Rule by a single leader, all his or her subjects are considered his or her slaves.
Dictatorship ?- Rule by an individual who has full power over the country.
Oligarchy ?- Rule by a small group of people who share similar interests or family relations.
Why don't we call this blog a Democracy and let the people decide!
Ap
Lets say we go just a bit further regarding the U.S.A.!
How about when the president makes a decision and congress, a supreme court judge, or even the people over-rule that decision?
Does the U.S.A. ex-communicate the officials and people that went against them? Hmm..interesting..that's right..I think not!
Where does that put the AA? Definitely not in a Democracy!
sola,
Your esteemed Pastor Baldemar and his goons were the ones who brought the "world into the church" by suing the Assembly in a secular court. Don't pin that one on me.
I agree. But the voting system is still a scam.
I'll Take...
hmmm... Oligarchy For 100..
Carlos,
While the electoral college system is based on regions, each elector is still free to vote as he wishes. He's not bound by the "popular" vote in his particular region.
I don't know what you mean when you say 400 votes to 2. Is there some documentation to this, or are you just going on what everyone else is saying?
Apo can't keep up!
Apo stop trying to google at the same time to see if you're correct about the U.S.A!
Good day people! Good day substantial debaters!
P.S. What happened to stong believer in god? He's probably thinking about how he's going to explain himself to the GB about why he was on here in the first place...you know after they signed "the document". I would be scared to if someone made me sign a document I didn't read until after everything happened! Too much trust in men of God..who would think?
godisjust,
Did you not read my comments about regarding the electoral college? If we a government where people as a whole hold the power, then why does an electoral college vote for the president and vice-president, and not "the people?"
Here's another one for you. If "the people" hold the power, how come the California Supreme Court overruled the people's voice when California voters overwhelmingly voted for Prop 187? Aren't "the people" the ones with the power? Could 7 Justices overrule the voices of millions of Americans?
I guess the U.S. is not really democratic, huh?
Sola,
Have you not read a word I've typed? Prove to me why the system is a scam. And you can't just say that it's a "feeling" that you have deep down inside.
godisjust...
I'll Take...
Oligarchy For 500 alex!
godisjust,
You have no idea what you're talking about. Please stop. You're embarrasing yourself. The people can't overrule a president's decision. They may not vote for him again, but explain to me how "the people" can "overrule" a presiden't decision?
By the way, congress passes laws. That's their purpose as the legislative branch of government.
Did you have a point?
Ok... YOU bASH the USA... yet Stand Up for The AA...
WHICH one Gives you Your Freedom??
Hopefully Ur Not IN tHE US. cuz u seem unhappy about being FREE in a DEMOCRACY if you are...
Checks And Balances .. my friend... THE AA has NOne...
Do You Even Know Why There Is Checks And Balances?
Sola,
You said:
"One more thought for you. When Peter and the eleven voted for Matthias, I can’t imagine they pulled out their CID."
Wow. You're assuming that the Qualifying Board did NOT prayerfully take every nominee into consideration before they made their decisions? How dare you assume that?
GodIsJust said...
strong believer in god
You must be Bro. Sergio Maffey or Bro. Paul Gonzalez! I don't think Bro. Guerra would talk in this manner and the only other person their twice in the video on the same day was you, Bro. Guerra, and Bro. Paul Gonzalez. I don't believe Bro. Guerra would have time to be on the blog.
If you are Bro. Maffey, that picture of you and your cousin Jacob is sad. Do you notice the body language between you two though? Bro. Jacob is standing straight but sad and you're slouching and with a smirky grin.
AHAHA WHERE DID U GO??? STONG BELIEVER IN "Godly Boys" ??
Message to gb PART 2!!!
OVER 10,000 VIEWS!!!
skotty,
I'm just informing your buddies here on how "democracy" works in the U.S. We're a democratic nation, yet there are structures and procedures in place that protect "our democracy" from people making idiotic choices. If that weren't the case, we'd still have slavery.
Are You Not a slave OF the "Godly Boys"?
BTW i looked at the CID...
does anybody else think that
According to the CID
Pachueco.. haha
Should Not Be On TEAM "Godly Boys"...???
just a thought...
Carlos: are you really ANXIOUSLY WAITING for it? Don't get too anxious because I already replied. And to be on VACATION and be ANXIOUS for that I would have to say that your vacation seems to lack substance. But that's neither here nor there at this point. Moving on; so then the only defense is, "Well, the constitution is a block of swiss cheese." And you know, the more we all look at the constitution we can all agree that a thorough revision is in order. I think you and I can agree on that. Anyway, as mentioned earlier, my post was for open discussion and I think that was accomplished.
modernpreacher,
if all you were able to retAin from my argument was tap dances and swiss cheese, then GOOD LUCK at grad school. there were 5 points. READ THEM. respond to THEM not my crack at tap dances and your contigency plan (or lack therof)
APOWW,
so what grade did you get in government?
electors vote based on the majority of votes in their area. Not on their free will. So, if you lived in California which has 55 electoral votes, your vote would have more weight than if you lived in Alaska which only has 3.
that's why hillary clinton's capaign owed millions. They actually had to campaign and win the PEOPLE's votes, not to bribe the electors.
So explain to me HOW the AA election system is comparable to the electoral college. and please use facts.
Modernpreacher,
please stop lying. you didnot explain your contigency plan. you spoke out of your posterior vaguely about equity, but didn't really say much.
mucho canto y nada de opera.
so how does gaining equity (which is probably lost by now in the real estate crisis) protect you from the AA?
BTW i looked at the CID...
does anybody else think that
According to the CID
Pachueco.. haha
Should Not Be On TEAM "Godly Boys"...???
just a thought...
apoww08
If they prayed, then why use the CID.
Sola,
Good One!
I'll help you. Not enough faith in their prayers.
OUCH!
even better!
you are my Hero!
DAAAAANNNNGGG!!!
The GB's wrong doing is confirmed in their actions.
apoww,
modernpreacher,
Where did you guys go?
i asked you both some questions.
?? who is Guillermo Mendoza?
They went back to CNN to get more material.
There is no comparison to any voting system and that of the AA.
Ok, well maybe on. Iraq when Saddam Hussein would win 99.99% of the Vote.
I guess the Iraqi Parlament had the CID.
carlos: you had a long post and I don't have a lot of time. in regard to your post it seems to me that you did the very thing you accused me of doing: focusing on the dance and cheese. my reply to your post was this:
so then the only defense is, "Well, the constitution is a block of swiss cheese." And you know, the more we all look at the constitution we can all agree that a thorough revision is in order. I think you and I can agree on that. Anyway, as mentioned earlier, my post was for open discussion and I think that was accomplished.
to help you read between the lines- your post and my post of the same constitution points to the fact that revisions are necessary.
Sorry can't sit in front and reply every 5 minutes. I'm not on vacation. Got things to do today :-)
Henry
Thank you for putting my words into lame-man terms so Apoww could understand my point. Hopefully he gets it now.
Apoww
You're not worth debating, you're not a challenge.
P.S. Apoww
One word for you .. Impeachment
That is when the people can over-rule the US President.
Drool on that one!
sola,
Are you for reals? you're going in circles with your argument. Hope you got someone around to help untangle you.
You referenced Acts 1:24-26, where the apostles voted for Matthias. If you read the verse carefully, they prayed and then their cast lots.
Going with your argument, if prayer is all they needed, why did they cast lots? Why not simply rely on an answered prayer?
Yes. Prayer and casting lots. Why is the CID necessary.
godis,
LOL. Nice try. First of all, "we" cant impeach the president, congress does that.
Second of all, a president can ONLY be impeached for treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. Not for merely disagreeing with him on a policy issue, like you imply.
sola,
because it protects us from the pastors voting people into office who are unqualified.
I thought prayer did that.
Carlos,
You back from your haircut? Did you get the usual $8 cut at that asian place?
Son, you are WRONG. Read up on the electoral college. Each elector, no matter where he's from, gets to cast his vote from whomever he chooses.
You're using Hillary's primary campaign as your example? You do know that primaries are not even in the constitution? you do know that primaries are run by the political parties, independent of any laws?
In other words, the electoral college is only in effect in a general election, not in primaries.
sola,
So don't have an electoral process then? just have a good ol' fashioned Lock-In until God tells us who the next president's gonna be?
godis,
You think Henry made a "valid" point? Wow, and you think I'm not a challenge, eh?
Face it. Your arguments are void of reason. You don't know a thing about how this country is run. And the sad thing is that you're probably a US citizen with a right to vote.
I say they pass a law where each US citizen must pass a civics test before he's allowed to vote.
That's how Peter and the other Apostles did it.
Carlos,
Where you at? If I may, I think I'd like to respond to your following post:
1) The constitution never commands the removal of said pastors. read it well. it is very abstract. a legal document such as this should be very precise and "cookie cutter"
Wrong. Constitutions are never "cookie cutter." Neither do constitutions address every single possible "concern." You're confusing a Constitution with a legal contract. A constitution establishes the rules and principles of a nation, or organization.
2) Whenever something is added to a constitution that is contradictory to itself, it must be added as a
n amendment or at least reference the contradiction as an exception. For example, when it orders a pastor to be tried, it should say the exceptions is disagreement with doctrine, etc.
Section V, the one I addressed in one of my previous posts, addresses this point. There is no contradiction.
3)That being said, can't ALL potential "uh-oh's" of a Pastor be considered disagreements with the doctrine and organization, etc? If a pastor is accused of stealing money, then mustn't he be instantly removed as well? That is very well a sign of disagreement or dis accord with the constitution. The articles i referenced before protect a pastor against such action and they do not specify exceptions, so they must STAND.
Section V states that whenever a pastor acts an organizational system of the assembly, or causes "harm" to the church...the pastor can be ceased from his pastorate...
5) Doesn't the constitution also prohibit use of jewelry? Bro Sam Valverde openly disagrees with this clause and allows his members to use wedding bands. this is hear from friends that attend FOT. Why wasn't the same procedure done with him. Do i smell selective law enforcement?
I don't know whether he does or not. Nor do I care, since it's not my church.
4) what about willie mendoza? he had NOTHING to do with the allegations yet he was removed in the same manner baldemar, torres, and avila were. NO TRIAL. NO WITNESSES.
You said it yourself. Bro. Mendoza has nothing to do with lawsuit, and his removal was unrelated to it. Do you know the circumstances surrounding his removal?
5) I'm looking through my version of the ORIGINAL constitution and i do not find that specific clause... can someone clarify? when was this added? what changes does the 2004 version feature? were they done before or after the election?
sola,
They weren't running an organization. They were seeking someone to join their cause. It's apples and oranges, and you know it.
apoww08:
Whats your point? Ok, we know, nobody is smarter than you. Nobody is as enlightened as you. Nobody is wise like you.
Oh great one, please enlighten us to your point and proposed solution.
It must be easy sitting back and playing monday morning quarterback.
You won the debates. You are the master of debating.
Now, show us your wisdom since you are so smart and enlightened.
What do you mean won. The Apostolic Assembly is also a cause. (At leasts it's suppose to be.) Apples and oranges apoww08. More like regenerate and unregenerate.
Prop 187? Umm, ever hear of the Supremecy Clause?
Prop 187 was stricken down because it violated the Supremecy Clause.
Comparing that to the CID and Panel of 5 is nonsense.
Henry,
I'm not here to win debates. I'm here to bring some balance. Seems that everyone is hell-bent on bashing our elected officials and continuing to scream, "fraud!" when in actuality, no fraud was found by the courts.
This blog has no credibility as it is highly sophomoric and sensationalist. This is the National Enquirer of the AA.
It's sole purpose is to inject hate into an already dicey situation. At first, everyone was screaming from the rooftops that a lawsuit was coming and that the justice would be served, because everyone was, oh so sure, that the plaintiffs would prevail.
Well, the plaintiffs had their day in court and to the dismay of most everyone here, a judge rejected the plaintiff's arguments and found for the defendants.
Now, everyone here is intent in libeling and slandering our elected officials, which happen to be men of God.
I mean, c'mon, to name this blog "It's a public lynching" is way over the top. Does anyone even know what a lynghing implies? If only Rev. Sharpton would read this! Are we really comparing a lynching (ie, the death of an individual by a mob) to a church removing a pastor? Is that really a comparison we want to make?
I didn't compary Prop 187 to the CID. Someone said that the "people" have the power in a democracy, and I used Prop 187 as an example that that's not necessarily the case, as you've now so aptly pointed out.
If the "people" really did hold the power, then Prop 187 would be law, but because it violated a constitutional principle, it was struck down by the CA Supreme Court.
sola,
Stop it. You're just being simplistic now. Let's discuss the text.
In verse 21, Peter says that it was necessary to choose one of the men who had been with them the whole time Jesus was among them. In other words, they were SELECTIVE in their choosing. They weren't about to choose just anyone. It had to be someone that was "qualified," in their eyes to be worthy of joining their cause, as this person was already among them to begin with.
The text then says that they proposed 2 men, Joseph and Matthias, and THEN they prayed. So, let me get this straight. The disciples narrowed the search down to 2 people BEFORE they prayed? The audacity! Why not just simply take it up in prayer! If I was the 3rd candidate and I wasn't chosen, I'd sue them.
apoww08:
Ever hear of a metaphore?
You mention that we risk libel and slander of our elected officials.
Well, they are that, elected officials, and we have protected speech under the Constitution and Tort Law.
And in a case of libel or defamation, THE TRUTH is a Valid Defense.
If people don't want to be talked about, then they don't have to run for political office.
And since the Courts have ruled to stay out of church business, they have no more jurisdiction over this particular dispute. Afterall, its a church matter.
If the Court Ruled to stay away from the election dispute, it will rule to not to mettle in affairs of libel arising out of the same matter.
What worked for the church in the courts ruling, will work for those of us who don't agree and are speaking out.
Afterall, the courts rarely interfere with church matters.
Ah ha! Another Constitutional protection.
Unlike the AA Constitution that allows for the wholesale robbery of its memberr.
Reference Edward Pacheco.
Or as GW Bush would put it:
MET UHH FOUR
And if this blog is "Nonsense", then why do you keep posting?
It must matter to you and strike down deep in your Apostolic Heart.
I mean, with all the Harvard Debating Blogs, why blog here?
Porke eres puro Apostolico y KE!
Henry,
The protected speech does not extent to elected officials in a non-profit org. It's protected speech from PUBLIC officials. Hence, I can call President Bush a donkey, and there's nothing he can do about it.
However, if I defame a private citizen, he's within his rights to sue me for defamation. I could go back to every post in this blog and I could come up with hundreds of defamatory things said against our board members.
To Mr.Mao: I'm glad you got it! However many still dont so I must continue to say what I've been saying so that it may be recorded in the people's minds!
Now in response to you who keeps bring up Pastor Baldemar Rodrigues, saying he did the samething. Ok I'm not going to slander him for something I an not aware of! If he did in fact do the things you accuse him of, than you and those who were there and or aware of said doings should have done something about it! Not bring it up years later!
My issue is with the gb!
The way things were handled!
I am doing something about it, I'm not just blogging I'm putting words in to action!
I have my reasons, and motives.
Thats the difference here, this is NOW happenning! Not ten years ago!
And if what you are saying is correct then dont you think its time to stop it! Or do two wrongs make a right? No sir!
See its time we stop going in circles, you must understand what the gb did is not right! Many Pastors out of fear are not saying anything, yet many are expressing disappointment with the leadership because its unethical what they did and are doing!
Now if there was a bishop sleeping with underage girls someone should have called the police not the AA...
Again its about that elderly sister,the people,the way things were handled.
The chaos that not one minister brought to an end!
Had the gb done things different we would not all be here now!
They did it!
They divided the church!
They were unethical!
They did the wrong!
ON VIDEO!
ON W.W.WEB!
wE are not defaming them... they did that themselves...
didnt you see the videos?
They did it!
They divided the church!
They were unethical!
They did the wrong!
ON VIDEO!
ON W.W.WEB!
btw they are NOT elected OFFICIALS...
CID EXPLAINS IT... THE CONSTITUTION EXPLAINS IT...
THEY ARE APPOINTED...
apoww08
I’m back
It is simple. (2 Corinthians 11:3) You are making it complicated. I’ll get to the text in a moment. The GB has a document (CID) that disqualifies a potential candidate as a general board member. The GB may employ use of the document at any time. (Which makes the document subjective).
If I’m on the General Board and I want my uncle on the board with me. All I have to do is have two of my pastor friends vote for my uncle and then I can eliminate everyone else with the CID. What’s so difficult about that? Every other pastor that voted has been cheated out of his vote. Not one of the other eleven apostles where cheated out of their vote.
If our pastors (men of God) are incapable of making good decisions, what does that say about the men who put them there? We have problems my friend. The CID exist because they have no confidence in the men they made pastors.
The apostles trusted God and the “vote”. Not a CID.
apoww08 said...
"godis,
LOL. Nice try. First of all, "we" cant impeach the president, congress does that.
Second of all, a president can ONLY be impeached for treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. Not for merely disagreeing with him on a policy issue, like you imply."
-----------------------------------
Ok So Congress Consists Of Representatives....
Lets See How The U.S. Democracy Works Shall We??
1st We Have A Direct Democracy, Every Vote Counts. For MAYORS, Senators, And Representatives...
Now WE Directly Vote In OUR Congress, (they represent US...)
Are you WIth ME so FAR??
nOW my FRIEND... after we Vote For Them To Represent us... WE have NOW left Direct Democracy And Entered
REPRESENTATIVE Democracy...
OK so Our Representatives Make Up Congress... and You Stated to
GODISJUST
"LOL. Nice try. First of all, "we" cant impeach the president, congress does that."
So I Would Like To KNOW... According To You... Nor Some GOOGLED aNSWER...
Who Do The Congress Represnt...
i thought THEY represent US(the people who voted them to represent) ...
Meaning If THEY IMpeach The President... Dont THEY represnt US?
SO WE iMPEAC THE pres.. RIGHT??
and as for the president
you stated...
"Second of all, a president can ONLY be impeached for treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. Not for merely disagreeing with him on a policy issue, like you imply."
I WOULD LOVE TO LIVE WHERE U LIVE... I MEAN IF "fraud" Is not Considered A HIGH CRIME... geez!
Would You Like A Lesson In Anything Else...?
"Godly Boys"
New Slogan!
DIRTY DEEDS DONE DIRT CHEAP!!
DIRTY DEEDS DONE DIRT CHEAP!!
DIRTY DEEDS And Their DONE DIRT CHEAP!!
wow... ok...
well the proof is in the pudding right...
lets see he rolls up in a '01 toyota...
all the Gb roll up with escalades ... and with their pockets deep...
geez he WAS soo corrupt wasnt he... dood!
YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT...
CID IS full of it...
Constitution Full Of Flaws...
'06 Votes Were... i'll just say "Miscounted"...
To scotty and to "the tank",
You will not get an argument from me on the lack of ethics displayed by at least 3 (maybe 4) GB members.
No doubt, they blew it, BIG TIME.
(I am not going to speak to the removal of the pastors because, also, no doubt, Baldemar would have done the same in his day, when faced with a lawsuit)
What I will speak to is your and others continuous lack of respect and professionalism in this matter.
...by professionalism and respect... I mean, you have NONE!
By constantly displaying your maturity level by posting videos, pictures of the men of God, the constant "bashing of their families" and their legacies, YOU sir are doing something far worse!
You are showing a lack of respect for "Gods Anointed".
Please consider David's stance with respect to God Appointed King -- Saul. He had the "anointing", he had the support of his men, and he had the opportunity to Kill Saul...but yet he displayed something that God honored -- integrity.
I shall also remind you of Noah, when he was naked and drunk in is tent. His son Ham exposed him, and (to save time and speed up) God cursed Ham for his attempt to make a public mockery of his father.
So, please don't show me another Video or what you and your revolutionaries consider "funny" pictures of the Men of God, show me your INTEGRITY.
(Please don't start another half-witted attempt to bring down the men of God.)
I do wish the AA comes clean with all the events leading up to the removal of the pastors (and they are, trust me :)
Yes, God will judge them, he will for their wrong doings...but God doesn't need your help in the matter.
haha Maffey?
lol
GIJ is not Guessing dude...
Gij IS just Going OFF of what you said.
but w.e. Doesnt Matter.Hide Bhind Ur Comp... Seems Thats ALl THE ppl that DEFEND the "Great Bulls" DO...
btw I Did Miss you...
You're VerY fUNNY.
I thought THEY mADE you ppl sign a Document saying that you Wouldnt Be on here... But W.E.
cantwejustgetalong,
You Bring Up Great Point... But Idk if you were there... TheSE "Godly Boys" Work Almost AS iF tHEY Answer To No one!
Funny Pictures??
DUDE lugo Wanted to be Photographed Like that, The Sister Taking The Photo Asked Him Not TO stand like that, bUT He WANTED his Photo Taken Like that...
You stated...
"...by professionalism and respect... I mean, you have NONE!
By constantly displaying your maturity level by posting videos"
Ok... So My MATURITY LEVEL is What Exactly?
All I did Was SHOW those That Did Not Believe This Was Going ON...
The lynchings are HAPPENING. AND PEOPLE needed to see this!
So i was Unprofessional, by Video Taping What IS hAPpening??
So it Was Unprofessional of the guy that video taped The Rodney King Beatings? Exposing The Truth?
All i did WAS expose THE TRUTH.. THIS IS HAPPENING...
THIS IS NOW
THIS COULD HAPPEN TO YOUR CHURCH!
quote M.GALLEGOS...
They did it!
They divided the church!
They were unethical!
They did the wrong!
ON VIDEO!
ON W.W.WEB!
wHY DO ppl say i used EVIL MUSIC in my VIDS...
LOL its Lux Aeterna, IN the beg. of EVERY vid. it is Latin For Eternal light...i BELIEVE it set the Tone For the vids...
The Second Song In first vid is BY KIRK FRANKLIN...since when is he evil? I believe this Helped To Establish Our Message...
The Second Song In The Third Video is Leeland "Tears Of The Saints"
I believe This SONG helped to SET the Tone Of that Particular Part Of the Video... read the lyrics , and you will understand...
so there you go.
a song by a Quartet
a song by a Christian Man
a song by a Christian Group...
soooooo evil right?
WHO IS GUILLERMO MENDOZA?
apoww08:
They ran for office, they hold themselves as our elected leaders, they are fair game.
Especially when they bring their political beliefs in their sermons.
ie Pacheco bragging how he had dinner with Hillary Clinton at a Campaign Fundraiser.
Sermons are that, sermons. If they don't like it, RESIGN!!
Besides, the court has already decided not to meddle with Church business.
As you said, the Judge Ruled on the Case.
As a member of El Bethel I believe this is Salomon's deal with the GB, and what's more it's something we should all consider to practice in order to be more like Christ. Our beloved Assembly faces death and only a true reconciliation can save us and those who come behind us.
2 Corinthians 5: 18-20a
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors.
Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.
What, then, is entailed in the practice of reconciliation? I can do no better than to point you to the work of John Paul Lederach, one of the world experts on peace building and conflict resolution. Lederach is a committed Mennonite, whose faith has profoundly affected his work. I particularly point you to his book Building Peace: Sustainable reconciliation in divided societies.
In Building Peace, Lederach states that reconciliation is place where four things come together. These four things Lederach discovered by listening to Psalm 85 being read in Nicaraguan villages at the start of village meetings as peace builders attempted to do grassroots work to bring peace to that country. In Spanish translation, Psalm 85: 10 says, "Truth and mercy have met together; peace and justice have kissed." That image of truth and mercy meeting and peace and justice kissing led Lederach to conclude that true reconciliation needs all four of those components:
1. Truth: Acknowledgment, transparency, revelation, clarity, accountability, vulnerability
Unless the parties are open and honest with each other, true reconciliation cannot be had. Confession is a critical aspect of truth.
2. Mercy: Forgiveness, compassion, acceptance.
Mercy involves the idea of grace. But mercy alone is superficial. It needs, as its companion,...
3. Justice: Equality, right relationship, making things right, restitution, fairness
Without attempts to restore dignity and equality, the brokenness created by the conflict continues to fester.
4. Peace: Harmony, unity, well-being, security, respect
Peace is the prevailing atmosphere of security and respect between all parties. Without that atmosphere, suspicions and fears reemerge.
Building Peace goes on to discuss, in practical terms, the praxis of reconciliation and peace building from low-level grassroots interventions (e.g., local leaders, local health officials, refugee camp leaders) to middle-level interventions (e.g., ethnic/religioius leaders, academics, humanitarian leaders) to high-level interventions (e.g., military leaders, political leaders). If you are interested in the practice of peace, in a vocational sense, please pick up Building Peace and see if it lights a passion in you. If so, in universities across the country, conflict resolution and peace building degrees are popping up. ACU has such a degree online.
But for us today on this blog, I'd like to end with a more mundane focus: Peace building in the relationships around us. For it seems that reconciliation is more foundational to the Christian faith than worship itself. As Jesus said,
Matthew 5: 23-24
Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.
How many Christians fail to get this message? Believing that the practice of their faith is mainly about church attendance?
But we live in a horribly violent world full of conflict. Sometimes it is overwhelming to think "What can I do to bring peace into this world?" All I can say is, quoting Gandhi (I keep coming back to that guy!), is "be the change you want to see in the world."
I'm tired and I'm weary, but I'll say it again
Forget the CID, forget the Hole-y Constitution. PASTORS JUST THINK ABOUT HOW THE GB MADE TOTAL FOOLS OF YOU AT THE 2006 ELECTIONS IN LONG BEACH.
Simply by continuing to make you send in your little votes when they were TOTALLY DISREGARDING THEM. YOUR VOTES WENT IN THE TRASH! THEY DIDN'T CARE ABOUT YOUR VOTE IN THE LEAST. IT WASN'T WORTH THE PAPER IT WAS WRITTEN ON! YOU DIDN'T MATTER. YOU MIGHT AS WELL HAVE NOT BEEN THERE.
YOU FASTED, YOU PRAYED, YOU WORE YOUR BEST SUIT - THEY TREATED YOU LIKE DIRT!
Cantwegetalong:
Your attempt at a rebuke is lacking because you fail to identify yourself.
You know who I am. But we or I don't know you. So if you want your rebuke to actually mean something, stop being a COWARD and identify yourself.
Feel free to email if you are to ashamed to identify yourself in this blog.
I ask you. Did John the Baptist Rebuke using a Code Name?
Did anyone in the bible use a anonymous name to rebuke?
No. Do you know why? Because the Apostles and Prophets weren't Cowards.
APOWW,
your reading comprehension level is disappointing.
i was referring to the right a pastor has to trial before he is lynched.
go back and read it again.
make sure you sound out the big words.
because you didn't comprehend my argument, you kinda blew a lot of hot air. and to top it off, it came form your posterior.
Henry!
Good one!
seriously everyone here should id themselves.
especially aa people. since you guys are so right.
el que nada debe, nada teme.
I just don't understand why everyone makes it so complicated. I mean reading and re-reading the questionable CID, the Hole-y Constitution, throwing scriptures around like rice.
PASTORS: It's about the GB playing a game with your votes. Okay so depending on who interprets the above-mentioned documents if they gave them the right to APPOINT SOMEONE WITH TWO VOTES so be it! The ETHICAL thing would have been to tell the innocent voting, fasting, praying PASTORS THAT THEY DIDN'T COUNT FOR SQUAT!!!
i know why they hide.
because they are TERRIFIED of the very organization they DEFEND!
its like when are the germans turned Nazi. they didn't believe it. they thought it was wrong, some of them. But they followed out of fear.
little do they know they have all the power...
tsk tsk tsk
shoot, i know thats why i keep my name on the DL.
i'm not about to be put on prueba.
Strong believer,
let me fill u in on something,
I HAVE NEVER HID WHO I AM.
ANYONE THAT ASKS, i will tell.
its no secret.
so, seriously, back off the generalizations. They make you look like someone who dropped out of high school, but thinks they're all bad cuz they went to bible college.
seriously, raise your IQ 15 more points before you talk to me again. lol
Strongbeliever
Well whoop-dee-doo for you and five slaps for knowing who we are.
I don't even care who you are.
What are you planning on doing with your newfound knowledge?
YOU GONNA TELL THE GB ON US? HUH?
We won't be able to sleep. Ha Ha!
hey tank...how about i post online some of your families "secrets" and exploit some of their "ways".
you wouldn't like it would you?....
so why do you constantly do it to others?
strong believer in god
It took you that long to have a comeback and then you just leave us all hanging, with ... well ... nothing! How sad!
You know who we all are? Should we be scared? That's kind of funny being Skotty & Carlos give their names. Me, well I'm from Indio church so I don't matter anyways.
Goodnite Bro. Sergio Maffey or one of his apprentices!
The videos are proof of my statement and your responses are as well! I hope Bro. Lugo is paying you for all of this.
omg rambo!
i hope they don't put us on PRUEBA!
YIKES!!
Only COWARDS rebuke anonymously.
The early church died at the hands of beheadings, being fed to the lions, tarred and feathers.
What do you anonymous rebukers fear? That someone my blog about you? lol WEAK!!
When will you La Puente Bible Schoolers learn?
Can you imagine if Jesus would have followed your example and been anonymous?
Seriously people. Rebuke in the open.
OOOOOHHH!! JESUS!
i'm ready to have some church up in here!
QUIEN VIVE??!!
naw Hank, its just funner this way, cause you'll always be known for the bonehead stuff you've said.
so when people look at you like your dumb...you'll know where it came from.
cantwegetalong:
Sorry, are you making an anonymous threat?
How about rebuking me again you COWARD.
Dang foo, what are you afraid of? Affraid Pacheco gonna pull your ministerial license for blogging?
Carlos
On "Prueba"? Shoot that's old stuff. Nowadays they just run you out of church!
I am the godisjust blogger and I am anonymous (waving hi and standing up in front of his computer)
I hide because I don't know how to come out. If I do, I might get two votes or even worse, I might be put on the GB.
P.S. To cantwegetalong, shouldn't you be starting your own group for peace within the AA? Doesn't getting along with somebody mean creating a medium? You seem to bias to get along with, I don't think we can get along. Sorry.
besides....the early church was persecuted because of their faith in Jesus Christ and their unwillingness to shut up because of the gospel.
not because they are willing call people out..now that everyone knows who you are....next time you are at in-n-out stuffing your face...watch out!
Wow the AA has people swinging the bats for them now huh?
Can't catch up with all the fast bloggers these days.
cantwealljustgetalong...can't you all just get a life?
henry...or can I just call you Mr. Tank??
I've already complied a list of everything that you have blogged and have it saved.
So when word does get out (and it will)....i'll be the one following you with the camera. :)
haha REMEMBER RUSH???
Looks like he isnt having any luck on his blog .. hahaha
this dude rocks... TEJANO
tejano said...
thanks for responding rush...I copied your post and I'm reposting it this time showing you where i disagree...and would like to show you where you're wrong and hopefully you can either fix it or agree that your page is biased and not fair and balanced. Tejano:
This new blog was created free of self-interest, bias, or deception. I don’t support the plaintiffs or the defendants. I report the facts. That is why my blog is fair and balanced. (You'll see why I don't believe your blog to be fair and balanced).
In response to your question: "where is the defense for the plaintiffs"
This blog was created to show the truth. I'm neither in favor of the plaintiff or the defendants.( You're original blog posting is full of defense for the GB and also this post that I copy and pasted.)
My initial posting is report of the events that took place the day Baldemar Rodriguez was ousted. I hate to go long because I don't have time, and I know people don’t like long postings, but here it goes:
The Apostolic Church is being portrayed by some in the blogsphere as a corrupt organization that is run by thugs, thieves, liars, cheaters and even murderers.
FACT (see aposolicnews.blogspot.com)
(that is unfortunate. I don't know the GB members enough to comment on that except to say that it does look like "bishop" Pacheco does seem to have his hands VERY dirty and the fact that he was "qualified" by the committee above BIshop Salomon is VERY questionable)
These bloggers are filled with hate, resentment, pain and frustration. FACT (see apostolicnews.blogspot.com) Skotty is also a spammer!(THis is not a fact...that is speculation. Our former AAFCJ pastor sexually abused my wife and is still preaching. Does the fact that I say that mean that I'm full of hate? I'm not, but you cannot assume that because you can read between the lines it makes YOUR (and a few others') speculation a fact)
The introduction is very childish. FACT (SEE VIDE: THE INTRO IS VERY IMMATURE, some people say is demonic, I don't know about that, but most sane people will agree that the intro is lame)(again...the fact that WE, because even I find it in poor taste, don't like the introduction to the videos mean it's a "FACT"...it's an opinion)
Although they would like you to believe that their revolutionary movement is huge and diverse, the video shows that only a small group of people are on their side.
FACT: The Apostolic Assembly has thousands of members and very few were there to support the plaintiffs. There are hundreds of pastors and less than a dozen supported the plaintiffs.
YOU CAN ARGUE THAT THEY ARE "AFRAID TO COME OUT". That is speculative and is impossible to prove. (I cannot prove that all the members and ministers are afraid to speak out...What I do KNOW is that a lot of members and ministers don't know about the details. My own pastor has forbidden the ministers to read the site apostolicassembly.info. My parents are member of BIshop Abel Torres' church. I was raised there when his father was the pastor. They didn't know what was going on until earlier this year because Bishop wanted to carry the burden alone and not involve the congregation. We can ASSUME by a simple law of logic that these actions are multiples of happenings throughout the assembly..Every once in a while I meet people that think that Salomon and Baldemar were sueing for money or position because of either misinformed or lying pastors...so it's not a fact...it's speculation. My parents were with Bishop Torres at convention in Dallas and were surprised at the SOOOO many times they were interrupted by pastors thanking him for daring to go where they were not brave enough to...that's a fact.)
more than half of the people staging the protest don't seem to have a clue about what their doing. FACT: Watch the video. Read the signs..(I read the signs..it let's me know that they DO know what they're doing. So yes you're statement is a fact...definition of fact is a a statement that can be proven or unproven. in this case your fact is as incorrect as a snickers is a healthy snack.)
Bishop Lugo asked them to turn off the camera and they disobeyed. FACT: Watch the video. FACT HERE IS WHY IN CASE YOU MISSED IT:(yes they did disobey I agree with you here)
This was supposed to be closed door meeting for members of the Aposotolic Assembly only. Cameras are not always allowed! even for public hearings. There were no cameras allowed for Kobe Bryant's trial, Peterson trial, Guantanamo detainees etc...( it didn't look like a closed door meeting to me...it looked like there intent was to have a service..I've been to lots of closed door meetings and you don't usually have ushers....One fact you missed is Bishop Lugo flipping off the sister who said they were citizens of the USA...of course he was pushing up his glasses...we all know how much easier it is to bear down your fingers and only keep up the middle one to push up your glasses than to just push them up with an open hand)
Then Baldemar Rodriguez, states that he doesn't approve of the meeting, and he walks out. FACT Watch the video(AMen...we're in agreement again)
Then the camera shows the humble expression of Bishop Daniel Sanchez. My personal opinion FACT: THAT WAS MY PERSONAL OPINION. you can agree or disagree( then don't call it a fact..call it your personal opinion... we can't prove or disprove if its your opinion or not. I remember when he visited us and preached in Lubbock, TX back in 95...I was amazed at how humble he was...and that wasn't the same look...not a fact.....my OPINION)
The rest is my conclusion based on the above. I Hope this helps!!
****IF YOU ARE GOING TO COMMENT ON ANY OF THE ABOVE PLEASE BE SPECIFIC AS TO WHY YOU DISAGREE: EXAMPLE:
Then Baldemar Rodriguez, states that he doesn't approve of the meeting, and he walks out. FACT/
FALSE: BALDEMAR NEVER WALKED OUT
I hope you're happy with how specific I was. But here's some background. I have met almost all of the GB members and plaintiffs. But I don't KNOW them enough to form a strong opinion as to their past life.
I do KNOW BIshop Abel Torres... that man is the reason why I still am in Christ. I also KNOW Bishop Victor Prado...I remember the conversations we used to have when he was in Albuquerque and I know that he is sincere. I KNOW Pastor Saul Avila and I know that what GOD deposited in me he deposited in him because I recognized it the first time I heard him preach. (you can imagine my surprise when my wife told me he is her uncle...so I bother him all the time haha)
I Trust my former pastor and I know he is uncapable of trying to start problems. There was a time I lost my peace about this whole ordeal I was about to drive to Rancho Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs and burn my credential in the office as a show of disrespect...haha
I got a call from an old friend who is a well known pastor and international evangelist. He told me a lot of things in confidence so I will not divulge his name. One of the things that he told me was the the GB was guilty of what the plaintiffs were accusing him of and that AT HEADQUARTERS Bishop Sanchez was begging for God's mercy when this man prophesied to him. And other men of God have similar stories of Bishop Sanchez breaking down and repenting BUT in public he strengthens his hand against those he set himself against....That's a FACT. proven by the fact that he lies in every letter that he sends to pastors. THe press release that the office sent out due to the vandalism (cause we all know that buildings and properties are more important than souls and ministries), he states that only FOUR PASTORS (the plaintiffs) have been removed....let's count them.
Bishop Efrain Andrade
BIshop Willie Mendoza
Bishop Abel Torres
BIshop Baldemar Rodriguez
Pastor Saul Avila
Bishop Daniel Salomon
Bishop Daniel Jauhall
Either Daniel Sanchez LIED OR HE CAN'T COUNT.
I hope I was specific enough for you.
July 1, 2008 11:51 AM
Skotty,
You and your fellow bloggers are wasting your time. You are not speaking up. You are not speaking out. You're just blogging.
Spend more time in prayer and doing research, and maybe you can craft an appeal that anyone who is actually important will listen to.
There will be no split. Only a few scorned pastors the like of which Hell hath no fury, and a much larger, stronger AA with a faithful following.
And a few nameless, faceless bloggers who believe they are making a difference.
This is, as Shakespeare said, "Much ado about nothing."
Yes, "Just",
i do have a life, and that life has to wake up very early, its almost 1am here...
so have a good evening Tank, and to all a good night...
and remember...i'm watching you :O)
cantwealljustgetalong
Your a bit late, there has already been people following him with a camera. It's called media and Henry obviously doesn't care. He has his name out, why don't you?
So while you carry your Panasonic hand held, the news will be right in front of you.
OK guys, I've been glossing over the blogs for the past few days and it's the same old rhetoric.
Have any of you thought of new ways to add dimension to what is going on with all of the "outing business?"
One aspect that was so powerful about Skotty's videos is that he captured the heat of the moment and allowed one to go to the church and experience what the church members were feeling.
I thought it might be interesting to try and bring the same realism to the rest of the outings in the AA. We already have the list of the pastors' whom will be visited so why not coordinate for there to be video cameras at each services. . .????
Anyhow, I just got some very interesting and breaking news. . . Tafoya outed. Now, I can't say that I am celebrating, but if there was someone who needed a visit from justice, it was him. . . .
Carlos
On "Prueba"? Shoot that's old stuff. Nowadays they just run you out of church!
Addendum:
AND CHANGE THE LOCKS!!!!!
G'NITE ALL
snoopyd
Get a clue will you? You state: "Spend more time in prayer and doing research, and maybe you can craft an appeal that anyone who is actually important will listen to."
You're blogging and you're rebuking us? Funny!
Craft an appeal to anyone important. Hmm how about NBC, ABC, Radio Waves and anyone else that has already been following this story and speaking out about it on their news stations?
You're just another page in my history, just another one of those mystery's.
Good Day blogger!
justdisappointed.
please clarify on tafoya's lynching.
Who were the henchmen?
How was it done?
Does his congregation support him?
Is this all confirmed?
Hello Everyone
Justice here,
Skotty
your videos are scary lol
that voice you would think the ressurection is right around the corner and we are battling the anichrist. Scary huh?
I know both sides on a very personal level and I am sad for both sides, only God know how this will turn out in the end. I just pray that many of us are in the right dirrection and not fighting the current.
Seriously Henry
whoever you are after reading all these blogs you sure tarnish some very good men's names. Did they do something to you? Maybe put you on Prueba awwwwww pobresito.....
Skotty
good job on those videos even though some good men got caught up in it.
Carlos
Mr. constitution
are u as smart as you sound?
strong believer in god
chickennnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
how easy it must be to come on and say all you say and just go, can't handle the truth?
Oh but I bet you are still checking up on all our comments
to go de chismoso to the GB.
Dude you should get fired for treason.
so god is justice
what's up you sound cool,
so where are you from may I ask?
Who Is Tank?
Justice
Indio church, Dr. Montes
You?
right on Snoop Dog!
"Much ado about nothing."
haha, that's all this is....
I mean seriously...what are you all revolutionist going to do....keep this blog up for years to come and show with with your superhero under-roes every time a pastor acts dumb and thinks that they can sue the AA.
what do you give out -- secret decoder rings? Spray Paint? Silly irrelevant picket signs? wow...great move revolutioners, great move.
I'd bet 90% of the those people that walked with Baldemar don't even pay tithes....haha!!!
what's going to happen when he looks around and see a bunch kids walked out with him. Like their minimum wage Mall Jobs are going to cover his paycheck.
justice,
indeed i am as smart as i sound.
God has BLESSED me in more ways than my striking good looks.
;-)
No specific details, but I hear his audit started last week.
It's reported that there was a complication and the audit was extended to an additional week (I'm sure they had to go through a lot of numbers)
[A conservative estimation about 60K blown away by Tafoya.]
I guess it happened tonight during Thursday night service. All I know is that there was a very fast "texter" sending info. about what was happening in service. From what I understand there was 1 board member, but they're not sure who it was. You know a young person was texting so I don't think he knew who the names of the big wigs. ..
cantweallgetalong?
minimum wage?
HA!
hardly.
i happen to manage a bank.
AND
among our new congregation we have engineers, teachers, accountants, and a doctor.
so...
ya.
Dood what do you think im doing...
im preparing to CAPTURE moRE EPIC footage dude...
lol
I'm In The Midst Of Planning...
god is justice
hey bro or sis
I'm from Union City
yup can u believe we got all the news all the way up here to?
cant we all get along
WOW
Those are some powerful words
why go up against Rev Rodriguez
what did he ever do to you?
You know a young person was texting so I don't think he knew who the names of the big wigs.
maybe it was dumb little girl on utube?
cantweallgetalong
I refer you back to "life", however I can understand why you wouldn't have one.
Revolutionaries I wouldn't bother with this overgrown person. Sounds to me he wants more info then he's letting out.
sola,
Let's go with your little scenario. In order to make it work, you'd have to make several assumptions. First, you'd have to assume that I'm on the qualifying commission (in order to use the CID document to get my "uncle" elected).
How could I conspire to get him in the Board if I have no guarantee that I'd be amongst the 3 board members selected to be in the QC?
Remember, there are 8 board members, and only 3 are on the QC. Or are you also assuming that the 8members are ALL conspiring? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?
You'd also have to assume that this conspiring board member is an evildoer, and is ready to violate every principle and precept that he stands for, simply to have his fav uncle on the board with him, so that they can have lunch every day.
You're also assuming that all board members are deceitful men who are only seeking power and wealth. Do you know the board members? Do you have that much resentment and hate in your heart that you can't give them the benefit of the doubt,and realize that they're all men of God? These men have toiled for many, many years and have sacrificed and given their lives for the gospel, yet little ol' sola sees a conspiracy everywhere she looks.
You still haven't answered my previous post regarding the method by which the apostles narrowed their search down to the final 2. What did their version of the CID entail? The Bible is silent on that issue. It doesn't say how they chose the final two. They did this before they cast the lots, lest you forget. Is that not the job of the QC, to narrow down the choices? Is that not what the judge said?
I think you're confused when it comes to the role of the QC. The qualifying commission, with help of the CID, does NOT choose a leader. The QC simply narrows the choices down to 2-5 candidates.
The pastors then get to vote for whom they want as their leader, and the person with the most votes wins the election. Where is the pastor's vote taken away?
Again, I reiterate. The CID itself has no power to choose a leader. It only narrows down the choices. The pastors then get to decide, by majority vote.
justice
I wouldn't bother with cantweallgetalong unless your ready to debate with a 5 year old. He holds no facts and all he's here to do is argue. I like real good debates, the word I like to use is "substantial". I think I've been watching PBS too much.
I know this news is already out of California and on it's way to the East Coast.
There was a radio show about it also up north!
OK, about the 60K, that's just my very limited conservative approximation. I really don't have any means of calculating . . all I know is that he mismanaged Bible College funds, Dorcas Camp funds, Junior Camp funds, Youth Camp (both Spanish & English) AND his own church funds, plus additional stipends and monies he received for being the sitting bishop.
What can I say, his family enjoyed a very cushy lifestyle for a season. You know . . . exotic trips to Hawaii. .. excursions to New York. Sis. Donna sported $500.00 dollar sunglasses to camp, Christy enjoyed frequent visits to the spa. .. you know that kind of stuff. . .
[while the kids at camp couldn't get seconds on the crappy food they were served, sisters who worked in the kitchen had to fight for a budget for food, during the early years the kids had to buy their water at camp (while water fountains mysteriously stopped working) . . . oh man I could go on and on!!!!
Tejano told Rush THIS...
IM SURE TEJANO WILL JOIN US TOMORROW...
I hope you're happy with how specific I was. But here's some background. I have met almost all of the GB members and plaintiffs. But I don't KNOW them enough to form a strong opinion as to their past life.
I do KNOW BIshop Abel Torres... that man is the reason why I still am in Christ. I also KNOW Bishop Victor Prado...I remember the conversations we used to have when he was in Albuquerque and I know that he is sincere. I KNOW Pastor Saul Avila and I know that what GOD deposited in me he deposited in him because I recognized it the first time I heard him preach. (you can imagine my surprise when my wife told me he is her uncle...so I bother him all the time haha)
I Trust my former pastor and I know he is uncapable of trying to start problems. There was a time I lost my peace about this whole ordeal I was about to drive to Rancho Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs and burn my credential in the office as a show of disrespect...haha
I got a call from an old friend who is a well known pastor and international evangelist. He told me a lot of things in confidence so I will not divulge his name. One of the things that he told me was the the GB was guilty of what the plaintiffs were accusing him of and that AT HEADQUARTERS Bishop Sanchez was begging for God's mercy when this man prophesied to him. And other men of God have similar stories of Bishop Sanchez breaking down and repenting BUT in public he strengthens his hand against those he set himself against....That's a FACT. proven by the fact that he lies in every letter that he sends to pastors. THe press release that the office sent out due to the vandalism (cause we all know that buildings and properties are more important than souls and ministries), he states that only FOUR PASTORS (the plaintiffs) have been removed....let's count them.
Bishop Efrain Andrade
BIshop Willie Mendoza
Bishop Abel Torres
BIshop Baldemar Rodriguez
Pastor Saul Avila
Bishop Daniel Salomon
Bishop Daniel Jauhall
Either Daniel Sanchez LIED OR HE CAN'T COUNT.
I hope I was specific enough for you.
July 1, 2008 11:51 AM
Ok NE thing on this Document that
SOME ppl Were Supposed TO sign and OBEY... about not blogging?
God is just
It's a sad day in heaven when a saint makes a mockery of prayer.
All the television stations in the world won't weaken the resolve of any establishment. It will only make it stronger.
Are you rejoicing in what you percieve is the demise of the Apostolic Assembly?
Rejoice not when your enemy falleth lest it displease the Lord and He causeth him to prosper.
Carlos,
I gave you a very detailed rebuttal to your ridiculous post regarding the constitution, and all you responded was, "hey, what's your reading comprehension?"
Do some research, read up on the constitution and get back to me. Oh, and I wouldnt really be boasting that you manage a bank. You're basically a step above a bank teller, at BofA, no less.
Oh, and did you get back to me about the electoral college, or did I stump you? that Hillary comment of yours was indeed a classic.. ha ha
God is Just
If you are from Indio, you ought to start representing and get out of the shallows with these bloggers who are simply throwing stones. Instead of chastising those whom you feel are deserving, why not drop to your knees in prayer and have a meaningful conversation with Pastor Montes or one of his assistants or ministers to see where Indio stands on this issue. The church of Indio will stand united. We always have. We always will. That is why people love us. That is why some people don't.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to stand together in unity.
Why does everyone keep on bringing up Pastor Mendoza? His removal is unrelated to the lawsuit. That's within the Board's power, to remove pastors. They've done it before the lawsuit and they'll continue to do it. It happens all the time. Why is everyone lumping him with the plaintiffs???
I'll answer the questions. You guys do it because it's sensationalist and fits your little agenda, that's why.
God is just
Where'd you go, my fellow laborer? I was having fun blogging with a fellow Indian.
A manager is actually a band 6 position with the bank. that puts put me 4 steps below our CEO and 5 positions above a teller.
get your facts straight.
and about the electoral college thing, sorry, but NO.
The primaries are just the warm up, indeed, but the point behind it (darn your comprehension level) is who they're aiming their high priced marketing at...
you guessed it!
Joe Blow.
you average american.
And again, the electors vote based on the majority in the area they are assigned to. PERIOD.
And the times a president has won by the electoral vote, he wasn't too far off in the popular vote.
more than i can say about pachueco.
and No, sorry those weren't good responses.
the constitution gives pastors a right to a TRIAL. they were not given one. whats so hard to understand here, apoww? read s l o w l y.
thats what my point is.
God knows what YOU'RE talking about.
and about willie mendoza,
guess what.
they broke constitution there too.
he too was not allowed a trial. he walked in the meeting just to receive his verdict.
he was also forbidden to bring witnesses.
Yet another violation of the constitution.
THATS why he's brought up.
thats why 80% of his congregation followed him.
To all those who defend the gb, what about the people who were hurt?
do they not matter?
apoww...
you never responded to mine..
did i stump you or what???
Skotty Will Show You said...
apoww08 said...
"godis,
LOL. Nice try. First of all, "we" cant impeach the president, congress does that.
Second of all, a president can ONLY be impeached for treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. Not for merely disagreeing with him on a policy issue, like you imply."
-----------------------------------
Ok So Congress Consists Of Representatives....
Lets See How The U.S. Democracy Works Shall We??
1st We Have A Direct Democracy, Every Vote Counts. For MAYORS, Senators, And Representatives...
Now WE Directly Vote In OUR Congress, (they represent US...)
Are you WIth ME so FAR??
nOW my FRIEND... after we Vote For Them To Represent us... WE have NOW left Direct Democracy And Entered
REPRESENTATIVE Democracy...
OK so Our Representatives Make Up Congress... and You Stated to
GODISJUST
"LOL. Nice try. First of all, "we" cant impeach the president, congress does that."
So I Would Like To KNOW... According To You... Nor Some GOOGLED aNSWER...
Who Do The Congress Represnt...
i thought THEY represent US(the people who voted them to represent) ...
Meaning If THEY IMpeach The President... Dont THEY represnt US?
SO WE iMPEAC THE pres.. RIGHT??
and as for the president
you stated...
"Second of all, a president can ONLY be impeached for treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. Not for merely disagreeing with him on a policy issue, like you imply."
I WOULD LOVE TO LIVE WHERE U LIVE... I MEAN IF "fraud" Is not Considered A HIGH CRIME... geez!
July 2, 2008 9:25 PM
Skotty Will Show You said...
Would You Like A Lesson In Anything Else...?
July 2, 2008 9:28 PM
Skotty Will Show You said...
"Godly Boys"
New Slogan!
DIRTY DEEDS DONE DIRT CHEAP!!
DIRTY DEEDS DONE DIRT CHEAP!!
DIRTY DEEDS And Their DONE DIRT CHEAP!!
July 2, 2008 9:35 PM
Snoop i'LL blog with you... LOL
You keep on claming victory,but people around the nation are watching the videos.Everyone knows what the gb is all about now,you just keep on defending them,cause they reflect on you!
cantwealljustgetalong,
I hope Pastor Baldemar's faithful followers are faithful to God as well. As it is written, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth in the corn.
Regarding the revolutionaries, they've definitely started a revolution in the dissemination of information and opinions, but I'm not convinced that they have the political savvy to start a true revolution in the AA.
Perhaps the Rebels (as revolutionaries are historically labeled) would like to see a large secession from the AA. That would not constitute a revolution. A revolution would require that things actually change within the AA from the bottom up (since the practices at the top always originate at the bottom).
Remember, the colonists did not leave the colonies. They stayed and fought for independence from a foreign power. In this case, an attempt at a large secession from the AA would be equivalent to a civil war leaving scores of people wounded, pitting brother against brother and friend against friend (as it has with me and my BEST friend who disagrees with me philosophically on this issue).
Civil wars and revolutions are great for countries seeking a better more liberating form of government, but this is the church. As Paul admonished the Corinthians, if any of you likes to argue divisively, we have no such custom in the body of Christ.
Skotty,where you at bro?
SNOOPYD: i dont like you...
why? i just dont...
you talk about this blogging, bending knees and praying yet u are still on here blogging with everyone else...lol
cantwejustgetalong:
u talk pure non sense, this blog was put up to post ur ideas and feeling towards whats going on and not to bash about ppl...
well anyway i just wanted to say that baldemar's congregation is growing in numbers and like i mentioned before there were 200+ ppl at sundays service,their choir sang & were a huge blessing, im sure there will be more joining them this coming sunday...
service is at 2pm
@ valley college
701 S. Mt vernon ave
san bernardino, ca
92401
no gb members allowed!!
oh and also, haters: stand by!
Blessings,
i_stand_4_one
I stand 4 1,Preach it !!!!!
im here REading Rubbish... lOL
Hey,lets drop some bombs!
HAHAH fo sho
oh and p.s snoopyd
keep ur AA and ur opinions cuz we (baldemars congregation) are no longer a part of it...so ur opinions about us dont matter at all...
heres an idea: why dont u bend ur knees and pray for us instead of talking about us??
isaiah 51:7-8
Blessings...
r4j
i_stand_4_one
istand41,
i read your comment as i was revisiting the third of skotty's videos. I remember our park service.
we were scared. we felt defeated.
we felt helpless. we felt alone.
we felt betrayed. we felt confused.
I will never forget that night.
But Pastor said it best.
"church is not a buliding! Church is people!"
Last sunday when i saw our auditorium filled with all those people, joy filled my heart. Mostly the same familiar faces, Some new. But all of them, the Lord's.
I want to challenge my congregation to work. Work like never before.
love our Pastor, love each other.
But above all, Love God.
Now if you'll allow me.
i will got off my soap box.
:)
R4J stand FOR justice
We Will Do Everything In Our Power To Ensure The "Godly Boys" Know We Are Around. And We ARE Growing!
All I CAN say right now... where we stand...
Convention 2008
WILL BE EPIC!
They did this!
They divided the church of God!
They were unethical!
They committed this act of wrong to the church!
Ownage... STAND41 IS like butter
ON A ROLL!!!
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