AV
- Abel Torres - LYNCHED I
- Saul Avila - LYNCHED
- Baldemar Rodriguez - LYNCHED
- Daniel Solomon - LYNCHED
- Arthur Tafoya
- Daniel Jauhall
- Isaac Cota
- Ishmael Arellano
- Julian Aguirre
- Richard Galaviz
- Samuel Arellano
- Guillermo Mendoza - LYNCHED
- Martin Vasquez
- Herman Garza
- Efrain Andrade - LYNCHED
- Isaac Hernandez - LYNCHED*
*Not 2006 Election related
3,402 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 2801 – 3000 of 3402 Newer› Newest»Justice will prevail.
Concerning Galations 3:28. First let me say that there is only one interpretation. My goal is to seek the original intent of the author. The moment it can mean one thing to me and one thing to some one else, we have entered into the world of existentialism.
Anyway, Christ has removed all barriers such as gender, social status and culture to gather a people for his own kingdom. This has the most consistent meaning when kept within the context of the rest of the passage.
Remember the smallest unit in the bible is the passage. Any attempt to break it down any smaller would be exegetical suicide.
to sola dei gloria
i love it man!!
to sola dei gloria
"we have entered into the world of existentialism."
also known as text proofing in some bible study circles
"Anyway, Christ has removed all barriers such as gender, social status and culture to gather a people for his own kingdom. This has the most consistent meaning when kept within the context of the rest of the passage. "
the kingdom of his dear son, baby- that is what it is all about! That was the challenge of the galatian congregations as they moved back to the legalism contrary to the kingdom module which jesus tried to establish prior to the establishing of the chruch.
to sola dei gloria..... You rock!
Amen Bro's.
Keep it Alive.
david said: "when my father and my mother forsake me, then the lord will take me up." Psalm 27;10
father is the law
mother is the church
lord the kingdom
kingdom, baby, kingdom!
Even the gospel is called "The Gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven"
that is the task of deno-mi-nation-alism of which the aa is part of. we have numbered the holy nation (i peter 2;9) and in numbering or splitting the holy nation you establish your own organization. the organization is full of flaws but in the kingdom baby, we are all under the shadow of the almighty (psalm 91;1)!
Sola,
God has called you for such a time as this.
Thank you!
m.gallegos
M. Gallegos
Good to hear from you brother.
I hope all is well with you.
It's 3:30.I'm heading home.
God Bless!
What does it mean in the lords only true language? GREEK
One last one.
The Holy Spirit is the original language. Remember the first thing the Spirit did on Pentecost was remove the barrier of language. Don't get hung up on Greek. You'll be disappointed. The Holy Ghost does not have language limitations.You must compare spiritual with the spiritual
Where can I get a copy of this holy spirit language? Is it published anywhere?
Quintus or Mr. Thompson (11:31 a.m.)
I appreciate your thoughts and I welcome your insights on the legal aspect; keep in touch.
Pancho
John 3:16
That's the same thing Nicodemus asked!
How is it you have your holy ghost language that is up for anyones interpretation.
I'm not saying there's not a holy ghost, because there is. But you guys are making it seems like its a language we all speak in unison.
If that were the case, your general board and your plaintiffs would be one the same page on speaking the same language.
You see, I know you crazy pentecostals. You sing and shout and yell yibbie hoadah yibbie hoakamah, then say hear ye hear ye thus sayeth the lord.
When did the lord start speaking old english? Then say some prophesy that has nothing to do with the Gods word.
Pentecostals and Halleluyas are a strange tribe.
rodney king i think i know why the cops beat you. you talk without thinking.and if you were not recruiting why mention your organization?and its men of god like you that this generation is sick of.just because you hold a card with an org.doesnt make you worthy of more respect.in fact ministers are to serve the people of god.so you should have more respect for gods church.you make real men of god look bad.so do your self a favor and wash our feet and get off this blog.
John 3:16
I take it you are not Pentecostal.
Let me know if you would like to take this issue offline.
I asked my seminary professor if the Holy Ghost was limited in English.
He did not have an answer
Scripture has only one interpretation. The Holy Spirit gives it. If two people have different interpretations, one of them is wrong.
factsonly1 said...
r4jisdumb said
I am herby leaving this blog once and for all, and i suggest that all others who care about what matters most is to get pluged into your local church.
***************************
AW CAN'T TAKE THE BURN!!!!!!!!!!
you just cant let things go!thats why your going to be crying about it 10 years from now and everything will be the same.
R4jisdumb
-----------------------------------
Is it me or did r4j is dumb forget to log out as factsonly1?
Or who and what is he talking to or about?
Ok you guys are creepy!
Your mom is, and i thought you were leaving for good? you creep!
LIER,LIER,LIER! YOUR CAUGHT YOU CREEP!
Your probably a joto from FTC.
why are you removing you comments?
your caught!
Sis belle dont pay them any attention.Noone here does,theyll just call you names and stuff.
Everyone here knows what they're about.
We all seen this coming, he calls a sister in christ a slut and removes it! dont respond to him anymore.
Does anyone know who is behind the blog apostlicrestoraton.blogsot.com
I heard its a group of pastors who are against the board. but i dont know.
Sorry its
apostolic restoration.blogspot.com
I heard its a group of 94 pastors can anyone confirm this?
Praise the Lord! and WELCOME to the official Apostolic Assembly International website. Our goal is to provide useful information to our leaders, members, and most of all our new Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus. Please, feel free to write us with your suggestions to improve our website:headquarters@apostolicassembly.org
Thank you and may the Lord bless you.
Any suggestions?????
Paz de Cristo Blogistas!
Praise the Lord!
Les eseño informacion algo delicada.
I share somewhat priveleged information.
An email from Bishop Felipe Lugo to various ministers within the IDCN.
It was forwarded to me from a friend. That is all I will say.
Brothers,
It has come to my attention that many of the ministers in my district have raised a concern with the unfortunate incident that took place with ex-pastor Baldemar Rodriguez. I can't tell you the details of what happened I can tell you that it was justifiable.
Please be ready to discuss your concerns at our next Sector meeting. You have my permission to review all of the documentation at the info website www.apostolicassembly.info
When we meet, I will share with you the FACTS that have not been made public. Until then, please forward any questions to my e-mail (felipe238a@gmail.com) so we can be prepared to answer them.
Don't miss the next Sector meeting. We will only discuss this issues one time.
Hnos.
Ha venido a mi atención que muchos de los ministros en mi distrito han levantado un concierne con el incidente desgraciado que sucedió con ex-pastor Baldemar Rodriguez. Yo no le puedo decir los detalles de lo que sucedieron yo le puedo decir que fue justificable. Esté por favor listo para discutir su concierne en nuestra próxima reunión del Sector. Usted tiene mi permiso para revisar toda la documentación en el sitio web de información www.apostolicassembly.info Cuando encontramos, compartiré con usted los HECHOS que no han sido hechos público. Hasta entonces, adelanta por favor cualquier pregunta a mi correo electrónico (felipe238@gmx.com) tan
podemos ser preparados para contestarlos.
No pierda la próxima reunión del Sector. Nosotros sólo discutiremos esto publica un tiempo.
God Bless.
Bro. Lug
Some questions my friend Lugo, of whom I know the Past and Present, even when you were barely baptized.
1)Why only give permission for the info website? Why not this one?
2)I don't think it is your position to justify yourself, mijo. It is your place to humble yourself. Admit what you did before God, and Man. He will have mercy. You don't justify your hippie past do you?
3)Why discuss facts in such a closed setting, my son? And why only to the ministers? I say this to protect you. When you do things behind closed doors you raise flags of suspicion. Estara mintiendo? could he be lying? Protect yourself with truth, son. TRUTH.
4) Why not share the facts that have not made public for all to hear? The church is not made of just ministers. The church is people, with feelings. (to quote a very good friend of mine, Ovispo Presidente Baldemar Rodriguez)
Cuidate Lugito...
Dios te ha dado un puesto grande con grandes responsabilidades. Que Dios te guie.
Don Fernando,
Praise the Lord!
Well, Brother, I always encourage R4J to speak with their pastors about this whole situation in order to get their facts straight.
I can tell you that a very reliable source of mine contacted Bishop Lugo regarding that e-mail, and as it turns out, that e-mail did not come from Bishop Lugo at all. He has a different e-mail. As you can see, there is no time, date or place for the meeting.
It's very easy to get a person's mailing list. All you have to do is copy and paste all the e-mail addresses that were cc'd and put them in your address book.
I believe this was someone's (successful) attempt at getting people to contact the bishop regarding this matter. It had to be someone who is on his mailing list.
However, my source tells me that the bishop was very open about it and told him to call his elder and ask when and where the sector meeting would be held.
I am hoping there will be some discussion about the issue at the sector meetings this month.
Que Dios te Bendiga
Quintius,
It's good to see that you have returned.
Question:
I read what I think is the appeal, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
Could you explain it to us?
It's at www.apostolicassembly.info all the way at the bottom. The link is Notice of Appeal Filed 7-11-2008
Is it just a notice of appeal, or is there any new useful information in there that we could use to tell us on what grounds the plaintiffs are appealing?
Thank You, and God Bless You
sola dei gloria and justice will prevail:
Don't forget Galatians 3:28 is part of Galatians 3. In this chapter, Paul is addressing the return/detour of some Christians to the law. Paul is basically summarizing everything he wrote in chapter 3 up to that point. Don't forget he said, "There is neither bond NOR free." Is he saying that no one is free? Obviously not. He's saying there is no delineation between anyone in God's eyes. All the saints are a single class because of Christ. That class is Royalty. All the saints are God's children.
Paul is simply telling the Galatians not to return to the slavery of the law.
Galatians 3 has no implications that there should be no organization.
That doesn't mean that the GB was right either. Don't go making that jump.
God Bless You.
Sola & Justice
Thanks for prompting me to read that chapter again. I feel so free!
God Bless You
henry:
You said...
What got us into this mess was GREED and LUST For money, power... Its SIN that got us here.
I agree.
God Bless You
Good Night and GO TO SLEEP EVERYONE!
to snoopyd
although i am not a legal beagle, the appeal has only been filed formally and this first stab is the initial step to finally getting heard out at the appellate court level. the superior court had to sign off on it to take it further up. they are just technicalities
there is a certain period of time in which the plaintiffs/defendants post their briefs and response to brief. all that is down the pike
Well. . . .
It looks like the Godly boys forgot to mention a few things to the Pastors who are supposed to be so important to this organization.
It looks like they've already begun the process to start a new organization in Texas. With a person like Two-Vote Eddie at the helm I'm sure they'll be reputable.
Watch for all of the AA $$s to be moved to the new corporation led by Sanchez, Valverde & Pacheco.
Here's the proof!!
Texas Certificate of Formation
mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all? the aa in ca or the aa in texas?
what are these gb guys doing without notifying the pastors about their doings? are they now absolute?
Anyone ready for the NFL season to begin?
Just a question.....
Oakland Raiders!!
Return to Glory!!
I just finished reading the Texas Certificate of Formation.
Seems like our leaders have anionted themsleves to be initial directors, til the AA Of Calif. appoints new directors.
Duh can you guess who it will be?
Sure is starting to smell bad in Ratsville.
All followers of this Anionted Godly boys better wake up and smell the muck.
Whats the deal with Texas? Not that I'm hating on the Lone Star State, but why?
Any chance we can get the AA HQ and Leaders to relocate to Sinaloa?
The Truth For Once said...
Seems like our leaders have anionted themsleves to be initial directors . . .
Was that a typo? didn't you mean 'dictators'?
It's the year for the Dallas Cowboys!! They are really stacked this year,especially in the D! Been to 3 games already, they are awesome, its so intense in the stadium.
Sorry it was. I forgot about Little Hilter
As that famous koala once said, "We will fight them... with... peaches."
Holy Moly... Holy Moly!
-SKOTTY
Quote from page 3 of the CERTIFICATE OF FORMATION for the AAFCJ of Texas, Inc.
“The management of the affairs of the corporation is vested in the board of directors. The number of directors constituting the initial board of directors of the corporation is three (3) and the names and addresses of the persons who are to serve as the initial directors are:
Daniel Sanchez, Samuel Valverde, Edward Pacheco....”
Why are the ministers and pastors allowing the 3 partners in the Axis of Evil to continue to manipulate and dismantle the original Corporation of the Apostolic Assembly?
•Where is this going?
•Where are the other Board Members?
•What are the intentions?
•Who knows for sure?
These 3 individuals have taken the Apostolic Assembly by election fraud.
They have destroyed and removed pastors who had the courage to stand up to them. It is no wonder that the other pastors will not speak up.
And now they will singlehandedly take over all the funds that the people have so honestly and openly given.
By the time elections roll around in 2009, the bank accounts of the AA, California Corporation will be empty, the church properties will be in the names of the 3 individuals mentioned above, and the church bank accounts will have been seized.
They will also have taken the large amounts of money that come in from the government in the form of grants and donations which Abel Aguilar receives.
These infamous 3 will have staged a political coup in an ecclesial setting that will make them even richer while the pastors slept and golfed.
There must be something that can be done about this.
Can there be an impeachment?
Can there be an audit?
Are we just going to stand by and let this happen?
I speak directly to these 3 individuals to say that what they are doing goes beyond just a fraudulent election outcome.
This is outright destruction of the work of God.
You three have intentionally, deceptively and with great malice of forethought taken an organization of honest, Christian believers and dragged it through the mires of hell for personal gain.
You are no different than a street drug dealer who cons and steals; no different than a common criminal who wants what someone else has and just takes it, and as the Bible says, you are wolves in sheeps clothing.
Your agenda is from hell and your minds are corrupt and deceitful and the only conclusion one can make from all of this is that there is a diabolical spirit that is guiding and controlling you.
Surely know that you will fall into the hands of an angry God and you and yours willreap what you have sowed.
ApostolicAnalyst Said...
"You are no different than a street drug dealer who cons and steals
**COUGH COUGH***
EDWARD PACHECO!
**COUGH COUGH***
EDWARD PACHECO!
**COUGH COUGH***
EDWARD PACHECO!
**COUGH COUGH***
EDWARD PACHECO!
SKOTTY
its ON LIKE DONKEY KONG!
ApostolicAnalyst,
Wow. I'd never thought there would be a day that we would agree on SOMETHING.
Now here is where it gets fuzzy to me.
I understand how non profit entities and corps work, what I don't understand is how will this second "dummy" corporation help them?
What will it empower them to do?
What limitations do they have?
Can anyone find the tax id number?
I assume that this will empower them to move AA monies and assets (deeds) into the new entity's possession... right?
Also, what rights do AA pastors have in this whole fiasco?
Why was this conveniently done in 10/07?
Why are these articles so vague? It merely fulfills the 501(c)(3) requirements and thats pretty much it? What is the real purpose of this corporation BESIDES 501(c)(3)?
Chuecos, Chuecos, Chuecos!
Explain yourselves!
Your church has a right to know!
The sad part is, most pastors don't know info like this. They are like sheep.
My challenge to all the fearless bloggers:
Print out the Texas Certificate of Formation. Ask your Pastor if he knew about it. Ask him his opinion. If he is a good pastor, he will answer sincerely.
Btw, Don Fernando, good tip on the county records. Since your post seems a little too vague and neutral I must ask you to clarify:
Do you mean MARICOPA COUNTY?
III.
The corporation will have no members.
From AA info.
What in the world is this?
I agree Jose.
That can be amended, of course, but what does that imply?
Maybe this corporation is just a method of embezzling? Who knows!
When holy men do shady, obscure things such as these, they leave their people no choice but to question their integrities.
Does anyone else have an idea of what intentions can behind "The corporation will have no members."?
The reason for this behavior from the "Mensa Destructiva" is that they see the handwriting on the wall.
They know that by changing the name very discreetly from AAFCJ to AAFCJT is the best thing that they can do because they are gasping for air to survive. Just in case that they go under, this will give them something to fall back on.
At this point in the game, they feel they are invinceable, self-sufficient and self reliant.
Let's just wait and see how the Pastoral Body responds once they get the "surprise news" about the new corporation in Texas.
I know that it will not be received well in Texas because Texans are very touchy when it comes to these kind of things!
Standby on the sidelines to watch them fumble the ball...
Re “Don Fernando’s” comment about the letter from “Lugito” to the Pastors:
“It has come to my attention that many of the ministers in my district have raised a concern with the unfortunate incident that took place with ex-pastor Baldemar Rodriguez. I can't tell you the details of what happened I can tell you that it was justifiable.”
JUSTIFIABLE!? I wonder just how he thinks he can justify standing there like a _____ (fill in the blank with your own choice word) in front of a church where its Pastor has just been removed and the church’s locks changed leaving the congregation without their place of worship. There he is doing his silly victory sign as if he was ten years old. NOTHING justifies a stupid stunt like that. If they feel they are so righteous they should have at least exhibited some decorum. And they talk about the young people’s actions!?
Quintus
Maybe you could enlighten us on reasons why a Texas corporation would be formed for the Assembly. Heaven forbid our leaders inform us of their intentions.
Now we know that something fishy is going on with this new corporation formed in Texas, it is imperative that members of the Apostolic Assembly who are judges, lawyers, paralegals or accountants step in and evaluate this crisis.
We need to be informed as to what a professional would glean from what is happening. People who are familiar with 501's should have an idea as to what the evil 3 are up to.
For years they have been saying that they will be putting satellites of the California corporation in Texas and Georgia, but this is a lie because no other board member is included other than Sanchez, Valverde and Pacheco--not elected but appointed by themselves. This is indeed frightening
We need to know what options the membership and pastors have.
We do know that the evil 3 have been updating their information on the account numbers and balances of church checking accounts. WHY?
We need to protect the Pastors and the church properties and bank accounts.
We need to be given ammunition that will halt the dismantling of the AA.
We need to form an outside Board made up of professional people who are members of the AA that can monitor, analyze and evaluate the legality or non legality of what is happening and to keep the membership informed.
I think that if a few good people would form an AD HOC Committee and put their heads together to gather enough information, they could find a legal position for the Assembly to stand on and halt this horrible event.
Can someone scrutinize the Constitution and By Laws and see if there is anything that is being ignored or disregarded by this Board?
Looking from the outside, one can see the inherent weaknesses that the evil 3 have found in our organization and zeroed into, they are as follows:
1. The fear that the pastors have of standing up to the Board.
2. The members are told that they will go to hell for "speaking against God's anointed."
3. The APATHY of the rest of the members who don't really care who takes over what, all they want is the social aspect of church.
4. Lack of integrity and ethics that resist accountability.
5. Lack of Christian Education and true doctrinal understanding of Holiness.
If we don't step up and do something, the 3 evil ones will take everything that our parents and grandparents struggled to build.
We need more people like our sincere "hypocrite" who found the document and posted it. He is our Gideon. We need many more like him.
The Plaintiffs should print out this document and present it to their attorneys to see if there is a conflict with what they are doing.
Hey, where is Maffey? Isn't he the treasurer of the California Board? Is he protecting himself while he sells out the AA? He isn't listed on the new Board.
Let us not forget who is stirring the pot of money that comes from government grants. That is big money and Abel Aguilar, the man who gets it, isn't on the Board either.
Carlos raised some good questions..
Where is the new Tax ID number, what are the limits to their power?
Let's not get sidetracked on the Dallas Cowboys.. Don’t let the Board members divert us from the real issues. This blog is called APOSTOLIC NEWS...
VII.
No director of the corporation shall be liable to the corporation for monetary damages
for an act or omission in the director's capacity as director, except as otherwise provided by law.
Quote
Let me explain it to you, A non profit can legally only tranfer funds and assets to another Non-profit. In other word the GB created the new Corperation in texas so that they "donate" assets to protect them from theon comming lawsuits. Looks like some of their legal counsel has given them bad news.
Actually Rodney King, your close but its actually a little more ominous than you think...
Now a NPA or NPC can really donate monies to ANYONE other than a political related person or entity. The only time that a non profit HAS to give to another non profit (501c3) is when it dissolves itself.
Scary...
Basically the AAFCJ is a non profit. Right now it can give money to just about anyone as long as it is not politically related. (Sorry, Obama.) Now, if the AAFCJ dissolves or ceases to exist (etc) it legally MUST give ALL assets (real or liquid) to another 501c3 Non profit (at the discretion of it current officials). What better candidate than AAFCJ, texas?
CHUECOS, CHUECOS, CHUECOS!
Carlos
I agree, however if you were to donate to a person, It would be have to be reported as 1099 income. Upon dissolution of a non-profit organization, remaining assets must be used exclusivly for exempt purposes in other words if the aa were to split, the GB would transfer all property to the new corperation.
As I said, thier legal counsel must have advised them to do this.
"Isn't one of the board members name Paa-cueco"
Pastors should start calling the GB and asking questions about the NO MEMBERS Texas Corporation in which they have named themselves as the board. PASTORS - you need to make yourselves be heard this time around. PASTORS - RISE TO OCCASION! before it is too late! Ask questions, research, inform yourselves. DO SOMETHING!
MEMBERS - your voice should be heard too! Go to your Pastors and demand that they too inform you of what is going on and if he says he doesn't know. Ask him to inform himself and get back to you with an explanation. Urge your Pastors to speak up and get involved.
To all AA members:
Its money that has been given by you in good faith for the growth of our Assembly not to fatten the pockets of the GB GONE CROOKED!
It's really quiet here today.
I guess everyone must be in shock.
It is true, the AA is being divided by the top 3 Sancheese, Valgreen$$ & Pachueco.
The fact they started a new corporation shows division by the General Board.
Why would we need a second organization????
Mark 3:24-27
And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
That's it!!! the AA DEVILS had to BIND the STRONG Pastors. Now they're trying to SPOIL the house!!
"AA DEVILS rule because we let them"
Abel Artie
Daniel Eddie Victor Ismael Leobardo Sam
Luke 11:24-26
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
Is two-vote Eddie the one that was removed? only to return with the other seven accomplices?
Its all queit because there's nothing of hope to discuss with regards to our Apostolic Leaders.
Sanchezz, Valverde, Pacheco, Prado have prostituted the organization. They have pimped, used and manipulated the membership of the Apostolic church as their own personal WHORES.
We have been spiritually raped and emotionally violated by our unethical pimps in Rancho Cucamonga.
Shoot, if you are going to pimp me, at least pimp me to a Hooter Girl or an OC Cougar.
WOW!!!!!
Another unhappy Apostolico
Hank
So what hotel are you staying at for convention?
Wow!! Yes, I am Un-Happy with the injustices committed in the name of money and power against the church.
Look at the Abel Torres videos.
Look at the Baldemar Excommunication.
I'm wondering if Maffey and Pachecho with Sanchez and Valverde approval have Raided the Fortalez Divina Church accounts of the over $1,000,000.
I understand Valverde needs to fund the completion of his new church. Not to mention the construction of Corona, Pacheco's church.
Sanchez, Valverde and Pacheco are a modern day Robbin Hood. They have the ability to Pillage the bank accounts of the hard working hermanos in San Bernardino for their own uses in Fontana and Corona.
Hotel? Hmmm, I wasn't planning on going to the convention. But hey, I'm on for going and having an "awesome" time.
Henry,
You are right on!
SB has (or had) over a million in liquid assets and over 6 million in real estate. That will help pay for the new starbucks inside Fontana's new church all right.
You think they'll inform everyone at Convention about the newly formed "no members allowed" Texas Corporation and its purpose? You know, like inform them after the fact?
Freeking Mafioso General Board...
sola dei gloria
WOW, so you're being cynical because people are "unhappy". You don't think they have a right to be? What's your point?
RE: AAFCJ Texas:
Okay, am I the only one here who knows that the AA has been planning to move AA headquarters to Texas for the last year or two?
I've known this for over a year. I was under the impression that it was common knowledge.
All the pastors have known this as well.
Doesn't anybody on this blog talk to their pastors?
Okay, Snoopyd, so do you know why its not going to have any members?
I AM A PASTOR AND AM QUITE CONNECTED TO ALL THE ACTIVITIES OF THE CHURCH.
WE AS PASTORS WERE NEVER INFORMED OF THE FORMING OF A NEW CORPORATION IN TEXAS. WE WERE INFORMED OF THE FUTURE PLANS OF MOVING HEADQUARTERS TO TEXAS, BUT NEVER OF THE FORMING OF A NEW CORPORATION. MUCH LESS OF THE PRESIDENT, VICE-PRESIDENT AND SECRETARY BEING THE DIRECTORS OF THE NEW CORPORATION.
THIS IS QUITE DISHEARTENING.
Quintius,
Could you please read Texas Certificate of Formation at apostolicassembly.info and tell us in plain English what it means? I think there's a lot of confusion about this.
Isn't this just standard operating procedure for a corporation that is going to relocate?
Rambo:
That one threw me too. I was like "No members? What?!"
That's why I asked Quintius to maybe provide a little bit of insight on this.
It looks like we have a pastor on this blog (JSTRAD) who can share a little insider info with us.
I hope he really is a pastor and not some decoy who's trying to derail us again.
jstrad:
So, is this actually the formation of a whole new organization, or is it a mere formality that is required to relocate hq?
snoopyd said...
RE: AAFCJ Texas:
Okay, am I the only one here who knows that the AA has been planning to move AA headquarters to Texas for the last year or two?
I've known this for over a year. I was under the impression that it was common knowledge.
Apparently you (and many others) bought into their plans from the beginning. Moving headquarters and starting a new corporation are two very different things.
Rambo said...
You think they'll inform everyone at Convention about the newly formed "no members allowed" Texas Corporation and its purpose? You know, like inform them after the fact?
They will inform everyone. Unfortunately, they'll inform them by talking in circles. The Pastors will believe they have the victory, but the DGB will continue to lead the lambs to slaughter.
The DGB will explain that the Pastors need to ratify the 'New & Improved' constitution. In reality they will be approving the closure of the AA in CA and the establishment of the AA in TX.
This being done, the Plaintiffs no longer have an organization to sue.
Are they doing this just to get away from the Plaintiffs? No. Look for 501(C)(3)s to be established by 'Slight of hand' Sam, 'Pilfering' Pacheco and 'Kick @$$' Sanchez. These new 501(c)(3)s will befor their own benefit.When the AA/CA is gone, the funds will be transferred to these new 'Non' profit organizations.
The sad thing is, the Pastors that just let things happen believing God is controlling these free willed AA DEVILS.
jstrad:
Does your elder or bishop know about the formation of AAFCJ Texas?
THE FOLLOWING IS COPIED FROM THE CERTIFICATE OF FORMATION OF
"THE APOSTOLIC ASSEMBLY OF THE FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS OF TEXAS,INC."
"V. The management of the affairs of the corporation is vested in the board of directors.
The number of directors constituting the initial board of directors of the corporation is three (3),
and the names and addresses of the persons who are to serve as the initial directors are:
Name
Daniel Sanchez
10807 Laurel Avenue, Rancho
Cucamonga, California 94130
Samuel Valverde
10807 Laurel Avenue, Rancho
Cucamonga, California 94130
Edward Pacheco
10807 Laurel Avenue, Rancho
Cucamonga, California 94130
All directors shall be appointed by APOSTOLIC ASSEMBLY OF THE FAITH IN CHRIST
JESUS, INC., a California nonprofit corporation."
WHO IS THE APOSTOLIC ASSEMBLY OF THE FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS, INC.?
DO NOT WE AS PASTORS HAVE A RIGHT TO APPOINT THESE DIRECTORS?
ONCE AGAIN WE AS PASTOR'S ARE BEING OVERLOOKED!
WHERE ARE THE MEN OF GOD WHO ONCE STOOD FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS?
And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none. Ezekiel 22:30
Y busqué entre ellos hombre que hiciese vallado y que se pusiese en la brecha delante de mí, a favor de la tierra, para que yo no la destruyese; y no lo hallé. Ezequiel 22:30
jstrad said...
I AM A PASTOR AND AM QUITE CONNECTED TO ALL THE ACTIVITIES OF THE CHURCH.
WE AS PASTORS WERE NEVER INFORMED OF THE FORMING OF A NEW CORPORATION IN TEXAS. WE WERE INFORMED OF THE FUTURE PLANS OF MOVING HEADQUARTERS TO TEXAS, BUT NEVER OF THE FORMING OF A NEW CORPORATION. MUCH LESS OF THE PRESIDENT, VICE-PRESIDENT AND SECRETARY BEING THE DIRECTORS OF THE NEW CORPORATION.
JSTRAD, Can you share with us what happened on the last day and the activity in Long Beach?
What story did they tell the Pastors to get them to believe they had the right to remove the Plaintiffs?
jstrad said...
WHERE ARE THE MEN OF GOD WHO ONCE STOOD FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS?
They were excommunicated for standing up to make a difference.
If enough Pastors like yourself would take the time to become informed, a majority could demand a change.
I MUST ADMIT THAT I AM A PASTOR AND NOT AN ATTORNEY. I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH TEXAS LAW.
I MENTION THIS TO SAY THAT COMMON SENSE WOULD TELL US THAT WE DO NOT EITHER NEED TO BE LAWYERS NOR BE FAMILIAR WITH TEXAS LAW TO SEE THAT WE ARE NOT BEING DEALT WITH IN AN UPFRONT AND OPEN MANNER.
YES I AM A PASTOR. A PASTOR THAT IS TO FEARFUL TO SPEAK UP PUBLICLY. THOUGH I KNOW THAT I WILL BE REBUKED BY MANY FOR STATING THAT.
PLEASE CONTINUE TO PRAY FOR STRENGTH AND VALOR IN THE PASTORSHIP. MOST OF US HAVE NO OTHER PROFESSION TO FALL BACK ON. WE HAVE DEDICATED OUR LIFE TO THE WORK OF THE LORD AND TO THIS ASSEMBLY AND KNOW NOTHING ELSE.
jstrad:
You asked:
"WHERE ARE THE MEN OF GOD WHO ONCE STOOD FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS?
And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none. Ezekiel 22:30"
Baldemar and company stood in the gap and figuratively suffered the same fate as the prophets:
"They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and mountains, and dens and caves of the earth." Hebrews 11:37-38.
I ask you reverently and with sincerety:
You are a pastor. Are you willing to stand in the gap and suffer the same fate?
If you are, We (R4J) shall pray for you. Just say the word. Remember Esther.
God Bless You.
jstrad:
You stated
"YES I AM A PASTOR. A PASTOR THAT IS TO FEARFUL TO SPEAK UP PUBLICLY.
PLEASE CONTINUE TO PRAY FOR STRENGTH AND VALOR IN THE PASTORSHIP.
MOST OF US HAVE NO OTHER PROFESSION TO FALL BACK ON."
I don't believe that you are a pastor. Pastors lead their sheep, they don't blindly follow an organization that has lost its way.
I believe you are an impostor on this blog who is trying to give AA pastors a bad name. You are probably making a statement about what you feel about your pastor.
A pastor would never admit to being afraid to speak up for his people.
Now get off this blog and ask your pastor to get on and say what he really feels.
jstrad:
One of the goals of R4J is to give pastors back their voice.
If you really are a pastor, THAT IS NOT THE VOICE WE WANT THE GB TO HEAR!!!!!!!!!
I still don't believe you are a pastor.
Nice try though.
Alert!!!
4th Appellate District Division 2
Court data last updated: 07/21/2008 04:05 PM
Case Summary Docket Scheduled Actions Briefs
Disposition Parties and Attorneys Trial Court
Briefs
Saul Avila et al. v. Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus et al.
Case Number E046233
SNOOPYD,
I AGREE WE SHOULD NOT PUBLICLY CONFESS THIS FEAR. I DO HOWEVER COVET YOUR PRAYERS.
GOD BLESS YOU
The 4th Appellate District, Division 2 is located at:
3389 Twelfth Street
Riverside, CA 92501
Phone: (951) 248-0200
Can a legal intellectual perhaps spell it out to the rest of us in laymens terms just why a Texas corporation is formed by the AA which will have no members.
TWOVOTE,
UNFORTUNATLEY, I WAS NOT ABLE TO ATTEND THE LONG BEACH EVENT. I SPOKE TO A PASTOR FRIEND OF MINE WHO DID ATTEND AND HE SAID THAT THE FOCUS WAS ON THE JESUS STRATEGY, BUT THAT THE PRESIDENT AND VICE-PRESIDENT TRIED TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT THE FOUR PASTORS THAT WERE NO LONGER WITH THE ASSEMBLY HAD LEFT OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL. THEY DID NOT DIRECTLY SAY THAT, BUT THAT IS HOW MANY PASTORS UNDERSTOOD WHAT THEY WERE SAYING. THEY ALSO INFORMED EVERYONE THAT THEY WOULD GIVE A FULL REPORT AT THE CONVENTION IN DALLAS.
WE ALL OF COURSE KNOW THE TRUTH, BUT UNFORTUNATELY THERE ARE STILL PASTORS WHO BELIEVE WHAT IS DEING TOLD TO THEM BY THE GB.
LEFT OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL!!?
Sure they change the locks to the churches, even gloat in front of the churches(e.g. Lugo's last stance, thanks to Skotty). Abel Torres is lucky be able to obtain a restraining order to keep them from removing him and snatching away the church that the members built through their own hard work. They call that free will?
Rambo,
Take it easy.
The anger of man does not work the righteousness of God. That's a major problem with many people on this blog.
sola dei gloria
rambo wasn't not portraying anger
yet he was portraying emotion. God
allows us to be who we are and
until we all understand that, then
is when we will be able to respect
each other's opinion. sola you
seem to be judgemental.
typo: wasn't was meant to be the word "was"
By not having Members, They are eliminating pastors or members from voting. So by not having members in a Non-Profit Corporation they can call all the shots with impunity.
They move all assets to the new Corp. and Pastors and cogrgations either fall in line or loss all property rights for property under the name of the AA.
If they would have stated that their was membership, by law they would have to declare how members would vote.
I'll make it simple for all to understand. YOU ARE ALL GETTING KICKED OUT BECAUSE NON OF YOU WILL HAVE ANY VOICE IN THE CHURCH, NOT EVEN PASTORS.
Their next trick ids a new constitution and a 5013c filing (which will take a year to get) I would advise all to contactboth the texas secretary of state and the IRS and report Non-profit staus abuse.
to jstrad...
"WE HAVE DEDICATED OUR LIFE TO THE WORK OF THE LORD AND TO THIS ASSEMBLY AND KNOW NOTHING ELSE."
you have intertwined the work of the lord with assembly
question: would you pay the ultimate price/sacrifice which is death for the assembly?
Sola
Hey, say someone comes and takes your car away and leaves you on foot. Would you be singing Dixie walking down the highway trying to hitch a ride?
I have feelings I don't know about you. I feel for the Pastors who have been ousted and stripped of their churches, I feel for the congregations who have been hurt.
YOU BET I'M UPSET!
The road to perdition is staying within the AA. Though we all ready know/knew that these boys from the DGB were up to NO GOOD thing. They allow or should I say tolerate, certainly most things that your younger people/generation do & live
even though some are questionably not becoming "outward holiness" as they so label it, so long as their choirs are all singing gospel songs shouting, jumping and hysterically
doing the "bendicion" thing, that's what they call the "spirit moving".
As for the preaching, so long as he can "holler, spit and speed", boy you are "anointed", though nothing spiritually edifying was imparted.
Yeah, they'll welcome and give the singers, choirs, groups platform to simply entertain and move the folk.
All this in the hope that you all are lull to sleep, put in a dormant
state and DO NOT SPEAK UP for truth
It has been reported that at the passing of Pastor David Hernandez, some one from the AA DGB was at his church offices looking for the $$$ books, petty cash and were there to audit and see the financial status of FLC. Goes to show they have ZERO de corazon, empathy or a conscience
All who remain silent, passive even
that display a "well, it's just not affecting me & my family personally
attitude, remember that this ill AA WILL contaminate you later, for you are allowing this breeding to go on
enabling this to continue by y'all standing idle as they keep on at it
The road to perdition= stay w/THEM!
If you decide to stay for the love of God, and for the sake of future generations, cause a REVOLUTION FOR A TOTAL CHANGE OF ADMINISTRATION!!!
That would be your last & only hope
ps Revolution Will Not Be Televised
The road to perdition is staying within the AA. Though we all ready know/knew that these boys from the DGB were up to NO GOOD thing. They allow or should I say tolerate, certainly most things that your younger people/generation do & live
even though some are questionably not becoming "outward holiness" as they so label it, so long as their choirs are all singing gospel songs shouting, jumping and hysterically
doing the "bendicion" thing, that's what they call the "spirit moving".
As for the preaching, so long as he can "holler, spit and speed", boy you are "anointed", though nothing spiritually edifying was imparted.
Yeah, they'll welcome and give the singers, choirs, groups platform to simply entertain and move the folk.
All this in the hope that you all are lull to sleep, put in a dormant
state and DO NOT SPEAK UP for truth
It has been reported that at the passing of Pastor David Hernandez, some one from the AA DGB was at his church offices looking for the $$$ books, petty cash and were there to audit and see the financial status of FLC. Goes to show they have ZERO de corazon, empathy or a conscience
All who remain silent, passive even
that display a "well, it's just not affecting me & my family personally
attitude, remember that this ill AA WILL contaminate you later, for you are allowing this breeding to go on
enabling this to continue by y'all standing idle as they keep on at it
The road to perdition= stay w/THEM!
If you decide to stay for the love of God, and for the sake of future generations, cause a REVOLUTION FOR A TOTAL CHANGE OF ADMINISTRATION!!!
That would be your last & only hope
ps Revolution Will Not Be Televised
Rambo,
Yes you are correct. My apologies for such a poor display of support.
My heart and prayers go out to all the pastors and families. I guess I am disappointed as well. I have been Apostolic for 27 years. (1st Generation). I have never like the way the Assembly has handled things. I feel sorry for some you because I know this is the only thing you know. It is very difficult. For me I can move on at anytime. For some of you, your families, friends and memories are still there.
My corrective action for this matter has always been biblical. We have pondered revolution, but in reality it’s God’s revelation that is going to save us.
I hope the best for all Apostolics.
Rambo,
I am sorry for the insensitivity.
(I know Hank)
By the way, some pastors are beginning to talk. In my opinion, there may be a split.
Since the beginning of this whole fiasco, the Gb has been very deceitful with the proceedings of the business of the AA.
They didn't share any concerns by any parties concerning the 2006 elections until June, 2007 and it was very limited of information and just told pastors what they wanted to inform them.
After the ousting of Bro. Baldemar they made a so called press release and stated that there were unaware of an appeal, but the next week .info showed that they were aware of an appeal.
At the Jesus Tragedy Convention on friday they told pastors their so called version of the proceedings and their lame justifications of removal of the plaintiffs. There they mentioned that again they weren't aware of an appeal, but the day before they were served with the papers of the appeal.
Now a new corporation in Texas has arised and again another deceit.
What I'm trying to get at is, that the GB has all along said that the most important position in the AA is the PASTOR. But since 2006 elections that has been a bunch of lies. They must feel that the pastors are a bunch of ignorant, spineless, yellow belly men that will go along with what ever comes out of Rancho.
Pray that the pastors unite in overthrowing and remove the GB....that's if the pastors are still the most important position in the AA.
Remember what CID from Toy Story did. He would turn perfect toys into monsters. Coincidence?
Sponge Bob said:
"The GB must feel that the pastors are a bunch of ignorant, spineless, yellow belly men that will go along with what ever comes out of Rancho."
So far, they (jstrad included) have proven to be so.
Has anybody's pastor, aside from those who were excommunicated, openly denounced the actions of the GB?
Sola
All this is very personal for me and I feel very strongly about it because I come from a family who is being seriously affected by it all. Perhaps to some it may just be something to talk (or blog) about for a couple of days or so but not for me. I take this situation very seriously and I am truly saddened. I saw my parents work so hard for the Lord's church all of my life. I owe it to them to do something, anything, that may be in my power, even if its just words of support for those who are being hurt by the actions being taken by the general board members.
Apology accepted, God bless you.
Sola:
You said,
"By the way, some pastors are beginning to talk. In my opinion, there may be a split."
I don't want opinion. I want fact.
What have you actually heard.
I have heard the following statement firsthand from an insider:
"The pastors are saying that there needs to be a change."
That is the only thing I've heard.
What have you heard that the pastors are talking about?
C'mon, give your sources a voice.
We don't want to know who said it. We just want to know what was said.
Sola:
You said:
"We have pondered revolution, but in reality it’s God’s revelation that is going to save us."
If Martin Luther had that attitude, he would never have nailed his thesis to the doors of the Church. Martin Luther had a revelation, just as we have, about the leadership of the Church.
His thesis was in direct protestation to the Church's practice of requiring offerings for prayers for everything from healing to salvation. That is why he focused on the scripture, "For by Grace you are saved, through faith, not by works."
Now we have a revelation that our Church leadership is taking church matters into their own hands, excommunicating pastors from the assembly who have committed no sin in appealing to the GB, and we are adamantly opposed to the actions of the GB.
We don't want to rip an arm off the body. We want to help heal the body that the GB is attempting to rip apart. We won't have it!
We have a right to desire to preserve the body and watch it heal.
We want our pastors, the only one who have access to the operating room, to do something about it.
Judging by what has been said on the blogs, it looks like the attorneys for the defendants are advising them to move the Corporation assets out of California and into Texas.
When Sanchez sent out his scout and brother in law, Artie Espinoza to Texas last year, no one caught on as to what he was up to.
Just a few thoughts...
1. If the defendants lose the appeal, they can just leave the plaintiffs an empty California Corporation.
2. The GB can sell the property in Rancho Cucamonga and pocket the proceeds, then hand over to the plaintiffs a stack of corporation papers and nothng else.
(It would be good to find out if headquarters at Rancho Cucamonga is still in AAFCJ California Non Profit's name....)
3. The GB can continue business as usual with those who would stay with them.
4. The only 3 on the new GB would now control all the money that comes in and goes out.
5. They do not have to deal with ELECTIONS, as they have no members who can vote.
It appears that no one was able to fire the evil 3, or even reign them in.
As I spoke to several pastors this month, they all agreed that the pastors should do something.
My question was, "aren't YOU a pastor?"
The answer was, "yes, but I can't do it, some other pastors will have to."
The pastors are afraid, and Sanchez knew and used that to make this move.
This strategic plan has been in the mix for a long time. It was intelligent and calculated and brilliantly executed. My hat is off to the GB attorneys.
But this is not in God's agenda and He will not tolerate the destruction of His work.
Whatever comes of this situation, it has to be for the greater good.
We have revered the men in leadership too long. We have allowed them great arrogance and run-amuck egos.
If we learn the lesson that these are just mere men, we can turn our eyes on the true source of our salvation, Jesus Christ.
Apostolic Analyst:
Do you trust your pastor to go independent and have no accountability?
I personally don't believe any church can go completely independent and have no abuse of power by the Pastor.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutley.
Every organization needs a system of checks and balances. Without it, we'll be back at square one on a different scale.
RELEVANT INFORMATION!
Here's Matthew Motes' Webpage!
http://www.lawyers.com/Texas/Fort-Worth/Matthew-L.-Motes-1669895-a.html
Let's contact him ourselves and try to get the scoop!
Matthew Motes' Profile:
http://www.deckerjones.com/Motes.htm
Matthew Motes is the lawyer who wrote and signed the Certificate of Formation for the AAFCJTexas.
You can e-mail him at:
email@deckerjones.com
Here's a copy of the e-mail I sent:
Sirs:
I am a member of the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus, Inc., a non-profit corporation in California. I have recently read the Certificate of Formation for Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus of Texas, Inc. on the following link:
http://www.apostolicassembly.info/Texas%20Certificate%20of%20Formation.pdf
I have some questions about this document since some of the members of the board of directors of the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus, Inc., a non-profit corporation in California, are the same board of directors of the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus of Texas, Inc.
I am also confused by article III which states quite clearly that the corporation shall have no members.
My questions are:
1. Has the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus of Texas, Inc. already been formed?
2. Are the current board of directors Daniel Sanchez, Samuel Valverde, and Eduardo Pacheco already empowered to make decisions on behalf of the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus of Texas, Inc.?
3. If the corporation has no members, how much say do the 700 plus pastors of the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus, Inc., a non-profit corporation in California, who will be funding Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus of Texas, Inc. with 10% of all their churches' income, have in the dealings of the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus of Texas, Inc.?
4. Is the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus of Texas, Inc. a completely separate entity from the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus, Inc., a non-profit corporation in California?
5. Why is the address of the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus of Texas, Inc. the same as your law offices?
6. Does article VII mean the board of directors cannot be sued?
I would appreciate a reply in laymen's terms. Thank you very much.
Let's flood them with phone calls, e-mails, and letters.
God Bless You.
RE: Contacting Matthew Motes
Please, people, let's be courteous and civil (no pun intended) when asking Mr. Motes for information. We don't want to be disregarded as a bunch of freaks.
God Bless You.
snoopyd
Martin Luther is a great example. For one thing, he did not remain a "Catholic" (in heart). Nail your Thesis to the castle at Wittenberg (AA Headquarters) and move on. They might be able to take our churches, but they can't take our truth. Luther was fighting over doctrine not buildings.
TO ALL PASTORS OF AA:
It is important that you recognize that there are greety men on the AA board that are about to have their way $$$$$. What are you going to do to stop this? If not for you, do something in favor of all those working people that have labored tirelessly for you to be where you are!! BE A REAL PASTOR!!!
LA DIST. W/Insights into Rancho Cucamonga
More ccorporation info from AA.info:
Franchise Tax Certification
Taxpayer Number: 32033929574
More court info from aa.info:
Up to date court info 4th Appellate District Division 2
Snoopy,
"I personally don't believe any church can go completely independent and have no abuse of power by the Pastor"
It can be done, but the church going independant must have a proper strucure. A pastor, a board of directors, and then a constitution that allows for a "counsel of out side pastorsor respected ministers to be called in as advisory counsel in cases of Pastor mis-conduct. Only the local board can conviene the Advisory counsel (which has been choosen by the pastor and approved by the board)The advisory counsel cannot interfere or rule unless the local board request them to do so, but once they rule it is final.
Unless you have such measures in place you are right many pastors may follow in the footsteps of the GB.
Hmmm.. just wondering! Do you all think that by contacting Attorney Matthew Motes in Dallas regarding the new organization in Texas that he will really give us the "honest" truth? Isn't he representing the GB?
Anyone ever notice that we have not spoken of the good and charitable works of the apostolic general board? Thats what happens when the ''men'' of God pimp the word for their own gain. They become Judas', selling out Jesus for some silver.
Apostolic_insider said...
Hmmm.. just wondering! Do you all think that by contacting Attorney Matthew Motes in Dallas regarding the new organization in Texas that he will really give us the "honest" truth? Isn't he representing the GB?
Maybe we should include (CC) Susan Combs - Texas Comptroller of public accounts
Snoopyd
What's Matthew Motes Phone number??
LL said...
Snoopyd
What's Matthew Motes Phone number??
817-336-2400
I wonder if Espinoza is in Texas to establish residency. Does anyone know if Texas require residency for any purpose?
http://www.myspace.com/revolutionaries4justice
APWC:
I heard from that Abel Torres asked the GB for forgiveness and said he wanted to stay with the assembly. Is this true? and if this is true would you be willing to anonymously ask for forgiveness? Or maybe in your great wisdom advise the bloggers to quit blogging?
If you do not respond I would understand. Since you are extremely busy with your engineering job and you have probably decided to use your non working hours to tend to the needs of your congregation.
Onguard
Onguard said...
I heard from that Abel Torres asked the GB for forgiveness and said he wanted to stay with the assembly.
Forgiveness for what? For not saying something earlier? For not walking out on the vote? Or for letting people like you & two-vote eddie continue to lie to God's people?
Recently I overheard a conversation between my pastor and another minister about how to get the attention of the GB and get the power back to the pastors.
They stated that sometime last year Sanchez gave a report that the average tithe that a church sends to Head Quarters is anywhere from $1200-$1500/month, taking from what the largest giving church and smallest giving church sends monthly to Head Quarters.
If there are 700 churches in the AA that means that HQ receives anywhere from $840,000-$1,050,000 a month on 10% of 10%.
If the pastors would cough down their canicas and all of them unite and stop sending the 10% of 10% for three months to HQ, that will get the attention of the GB. They can't take out all 700 pastors for not tithing.
Pray that pastors unite in this cuase against corruption.
spongebob
I agree, you're Pastor is very smart! So maybe the Pastor's will finally step up. I don't understand what the problem is, if all this information if freely given. I'm sure we'll get squidward or plankton in here to remark to us!
SPONGE BOB and PATRICK???!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! i LOVE it! great names! lol...
I just hope it doesn't give anybody the wrong idea...
There are no flor azul brothers here right?
L O L
Rodney King:
I see what you are saying. I like the idea of "counsel of outside pastors or respected ministers to be called in as advisory counsel in cases of Pastor mis-conduct." I think misconduct should be very clearly defined and not so broad.
The fact that "the advisory counsel cannot interfere or rule unless the local board request them to do so," seems to defeat the purpose of the council. But if "once they rule it is final" then I can see their power. If I were on the local board, I would find it very difficult to request for the advisory counsel to make a ruling that is irreversible. Unless of course the ruling of the council states that the action is for a certain amount of time, much like a sentence.
Apostolic Analyst:
You need to change your name. Analysis is based on fact, not opinion.
You said:
"Just a few thoughts...
1. If the defendants lose the appeal, they can just leave the plaintiffs an empty California Corporation."
Response: No they can't. I don't see anywhere in the Certificate of formation where it says the AAFCJ will be dissolved, and I haven't heard anything about the dissolution of the AA.
You said:
"2. The GB can sell the property in Rancho Cucamonga and pocket the proceeds, then hand over to the plaintiffs a stack of corporation papers and nothng else. "
Response: NO they can't. Non-profits cannot liquidate nor distribute assets.
YOu said:
"3. The GB can continue business as usual with those who would stay with them."
Not much analysis there. A blind person could see that.
You said:
"4. The only 3 on the new GB would now control all the money that comes in and goes out."
Response: What money? if it is in fact a completely separate organization from the current AA, then our tithe of the tithe will not be going there. It will go to the AA and those who are on the new GB in 2010 (a short 15 months from now).
You stated:
"5. They do not have to deal with ELECTIONS, as they have no members who can vote."
Response: Well, if they have no members, then what are we worried about?
I think you should stop trying to turn us against the general AA. We are not trying to split.
I think you should stop trying to take people from the AAFCJ to the Iglesia Apostolica de Mexico.
There is a solution. By analyzing YOUR comments, it is easy to see that you want us to believe that there is no solution.
Vaya Con Dios, Amigo.
Snoopyd
You are Waaaaaay off the mark my friend. You're on the other side of a black hole.
1) They will not need to dissolve the the AA/CA. As time passes, and before the ruling, they will transfer assets to their new corporation(s).
2) They currently have the capacity to sell off any property they choose. All they have to do is agree upon it. What will happen with the $$ - see #1
3) I believe Analyst means for the sheep that are too dumb to think for themselves, (no ofense intended pastors) the cash cow will continue to support them in the new organization.
4) If they move the AA/CA to the AA/TX, see #3
5) As Rodney King correctly stated: By not having Members, They are eliminating pastors or members from voting. So by not having members in a Non-Profit Corporation they can call all the shots with impunity. They move all assets to the new Corp. and Pastors and cogrgations either fall in line or loss all property rights for property under the name of the AA.
I think you should stop trying to turn us against the general AA. We are not trying to split.
Don't you agree by starting a new corporation they have already started the crack that will eventually split the organization if it is not patched?
Onguard
Does the filing of the appeal answer your question?
Sonny, IT IS THE GB WHO SHOULD BE ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS OF THE PASTORS AND THE ENTIRE MEMBERS OF THE ASSEMBLY.
You know, I truly believe that any or all of the Plaintiff's might even ask for forgiveness IF THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD SAVE OUR ASSEMBLY!
However the "men of God" have shown over and over that they have absolutely no compassion nor willingness to remedy their mistakes and work toward a possible solution.
Snoopyd,
In defense of apostolic analyst, I must point out your ignorance.
1) The certificate of formation DOES NOT NEED to mention the AAFCJ. It is its OWN SEPARATE ENTITY. Its iformation is not contingent upon the dissolution of the AA. However, the existence of this document IMPLIES it. or else, why have two?
2) NPO's can INDEED liquidate assets, as long as they are going to another NPO (501c3). read up on it. educate yourself. The new texas AA is set up as a 501c3, hence it may very well serve as recipient of the current AA's assets. Even a monkey can put pieces together here.
points 3, 4, & 5 are just evidence of your lack of knowledge and ignorance. I won't even dignify them with a response.
THINK ABOUT IT, buddy. Question the GB's intentions and then you'll come up with the answers to your dumb questions.
BTW, I don't see ApostilicAnalyst pointing out facts as a way to "split" the AA. I think most would agree.
The GB is splitting the AA with shady dealings, greed, and hidden agendas. Apostolic Analyst is merely pointing it out.
CORRE, IGELSIA! CORRE!
I am a Licensed Minister with the AA. WHat can I, should I do?
You are right on, Two Vote!
CORRE, IGLESIA! CORRE!
Active_neutrality,
To answer that question you must think about a few different things:
What do you truly feel about the actions of the GB?
How far are you willing to go for what's right?
What are you willing to temporarily lose?
What will you gain with neutrality?
What can you lose with neutrality?
Whats more important to you:
Standing up for what's right
or
Your credentials.
Talk to your pastor, and then to your bishop, if you must. Then go from there. There is help on every corner, I'll tell you that much.
CORRE, IGLESIA! CORRE!
Active_Neutrality
You should probably start by contacting the Plaintiffs and asking them those questions.
BEWARE ALL BLOGGERS!!!
I just foundout from my sources in FTC that "Onguard" IS related to somebody in the GB. And that he is trying to pass on erroneous information to sidetrack bloggers from what they are discovering!
Two words for you Onguard - Dumb ..ss!
Rambo said...
Active_Neutrality
You should probably start by contacting the Plaintiffs and asking them those questions.
-Does anyone have their contact information?
Carlos said...
Active_neutrality,
To answer that question you must think about a few different things:
What do you truly feel about the actions of the GB?
It is difficult to have a complete stance with absence of the complete facts. With what I have gathered, the injustice is not only the election fraud, but the refusal to own up and come to a unified compromise with the plaintiffs/brothers.
How far are you willing to go for what's right?
I am willing to sacrifice my own "good standing" with man, to further the cause of unity within our part of the body.
What are you willing to temporarily lose?
See above comment.
What will you gain with neutrality?
What can you lose with neutrality?
"Active neutrality". It was wisely explained by a respected man of God and Bishop. My position in the ministry is to remain neutral. However that neutrality must not be passive. (Sitting back and seeing what happens)
Whats more important to you:
Standing up for what's right
or
Your credentials.
Standing for what is right.
Credentials are issued by the AA. Annointing and calling is issued by the Lord.
Talk to your pastor, and then to your bishop, if you must. Then go from there. There is help on every corner, I'll tell you that much.
Hmmmm....
CORRE, IGLESIA! CORRE!
You know, it just occurred to me. The AA DEVILS know they are doing wrong. Their actions are premeditated. They are currently functioning with absolutely no control.
Who's going to stop them? The only ones brave enough to step up were removed.
They could care less about what happens here or on AA.info. As long as no one is willing or able to stop them, they will continue and from their first class seats, they will laugh at us.
I think, the cancer starts with two-vote eddie & Valverde - the primos. If we can't take them down, maybe the law can. Al Capone, another dishonest man, was taken down by the I.R.S.
If you have information the IRS, DRE, FBI, CIA, NSA, Homeland Security, Attorney General or ??? may be interested in, contacting them might help us remove these unscrupulous individuals
"AA DEVILS rule because we let them"
Abel Artie
Daniel Eddie Victor Ismael Leobardo Sam
You know, it just occurred to me. The AA DEVILS know they are doing wrong. Their actions are premeditated. They are currently functioning with absolutely no control.
Who's going to stop them? The only ones brave enough to step up were removed.
They could care less about what happens here or on AA.info. As long as no one is willing or able to stop them, they will continue and from their first class seats, they will laugh at us.
I think, the cancer starts with two-vote eddie & Valverde - the primos. If we can't take them down, maybe the law can. Al Capone, another dishonest man, was taken down by the I.R.S.
If you have information the IRS, DRE, FBI, CIA, NSA, Homeland Security, Attorney General or ??? may be interested in, contacting them might help us remove these unscrupulous individuals
"AA DEVILS rule because we let them"
Abel Artie
Daniel Eddie Victor Ismael Leobardo Sam
spongebob
Do we have any information for active neutrality? Contact info of the plantiffs?
He needs help!
When are we going to head out to Krusty Krab, I'm hungry?
From letter on AA.info:
Abel V. Torres
1417 Ainslee St.
Midland, TX 79701
(432) 352-3958
From new letter posted on AA.info:
Saúl L. & Tabitha A. Ávila
2520 Chaparral Trail
Austin, Texas • 78744-3614
512/416-7372 Home • 512/731-9660 Mobile
avilaccc@texas.net • tabbyccc@texas.net
From this Blog:
Baldemar L & Homa L Rodriguez
1328 South Lilac Avenue
Bloomington, California 92316-2138
(909) 877-3848
CBG
Not to worry about Onguard. I think most have determined quite a while back that there is absolutely no credibility on anything Onguard has to say. In just one single comment he lied three times and had to take it all back. You are right I think he is a "sentry" put in place by the gb.
I just did a search on apostolicassembly.org for the church in Midland, Texas, Denver, CO, Austin, TX and San
Bernardino, CA and this is what I got. I kept getting an application error for San Bernardino search.
FINALLY, the website is updated in a timely manner, AT THEIR CONVENIENCE! I happen to know pastors that left the assembly eons ago are still receiving correspondence from the AA. Including the letters posted on apostolicassembly.info. What a joke. Dream team? Too funny. Now THEIR dreaming.
TTFN
----------------------------------
Midland
Pastor: (none)
2309 S Fort Worth St
Midland, TX 79701-1966
(333) 111-2222
Church Locator
Pastor's First Name Last Name
----------------------------------
Denver #1
Pastor: (none)
8333 Acoma Way
Denver, CO 80221
(800) 111-2222
Homepage: (none)
----------------------------------
Austin
Pastor: (none)
1622 Holly St
Austin, TX 78702
(512) 111-2222
Homepage: (none)
It is my understanding from people who are related to staff that work at rancho cuculucooo (Cucamonga), the GB has family members in the blogs constantly monitoring us, trying to figure out who is who and trying to dissiminate incorrect information. One example is Ruben Bernal Jr the "en4cer." He is Valverde's nephew.
My sources also tell me that a good amount of pastors are thinking about splitting and forming a new fellowship with the plaintiffs.
To AA
A few days ago you posted the following:
"apostolic restoration.blogspot.com
I heard its a group of 94 pastors can anyone confirm this?"
Where can one find this, the above doesn't seem to work. Thanks.
RE: AA CORP. MEMBERSHIP
Why are people so surprised about the Texas Corp., if you look into the Ca Corp. it is the same thing. The general members are NOT members of the Ca. Corp.
The Pastor and the members have NO rights within the AA. The only 8 that matter are those that sit on the comfortable chairs at the convention.
LOL the La Puente Bible Schoolers must be sponsoring internships at AA HQ.
This is it
http://apostolicrestoration.blogspot.com/
Hypocrite,
I don't see a need in posting all that information (address). The name and phone number would be suffice. I kindly ask you to delete your above comment and re post one with just the names and phone numbers.
TheInsider:
I harldy think that is accurate. Please allow us to see the source of your information... perhaps, the current articles of corp?
The AA can move to Texas, if they promise to take Sanchez, Valverde, Pachexo, Maffey, Prado with them.
Get the heck out of California! We have enough gangs!
I have an idea! Let the GB move to South Texas. I think that would be just grand. Let the family/friends of Pastor Baldemar Rodriguez greet them with a good ole Texas howdy.
I have an idea! Let the GB move to South Texas. I think that would be just grand. Let the family/friends of Pastor Baldemar Rodriguez greet them with a good ole Texas howdy.
Sorry about the multiple posts. I kept getting error messages that it wasn't postings. Oh well, I guess I made my point clear.
The purpose of this letter is two-fold. One is to make a statement and the other is to make some inquiries. On Saturday June 21, 2008 we were convened to attend a meeting which was cited by the General Board via the Centex District Board. We arrived and promptly went into our meeting in which Bishop Leobardo A. Maffey immediately asserted his position by stating that “I am in charge here!” and with that we went to the business at hand. He read me the letter signed by the eight board members and thanked me for coming. Thereafter your servant asked: “May I make a comment?” Bishop Maffey said: “No!” Your servant then proceeded to ask: “May I ask a question?” Once again the same answer. The meeting lasted 3 minutes and 30 seconds.
Quote from Saul Avila letter to Danny
AA info
Whoa there Seven T!
How about all of Texas taking turns, there's the Central District whom I'm sure would like a turn at welcoming them, and don't forget the great Northwest Texas District awaiting those "chulitos" with open arms.
Oh, but wait we forgot! Remember? The new Texas AA corporation will have no members. Darn, what are we Texans gonna do? Here we are with a corporation right on our own doorstep and we can't be members? Darn.
Carlos,
Please confirm with your sources what I state........
Carlos,
Please confirm with your sources what I state........
Carlos,
Please confirm with your sources what I state........
Insider,
I very well can verify if the current articles say that, but all in all, YOU are the one that said it.
You should be better informed before you make a statement.
To AA and Rambo,
Its not 94 pastors, its only like 60 pastors and ministers, i dont know how many ministers though?But they are connected with r4j and there numbers are growing.They contacted my pastor last week,and he is thinking of baking them up.
its
apostolicrestoration.blogspot.com
Hello blogistas, my name is Sandy.
I wanted to share this with everyone. I copied it from the Revolutionaries4Justice myspace. It touched my heart and I hope it touches your heart as well.
IF IT WASN'T FOR YOU…I WOULDN'T HAVE KNOWN
If it wasn't for you locking up my church
I wouldn't be free the way I am today
If it wasn't for you trying to shut my Pastor's mouth
I wouldn't be praising God with a loud voice I have today
If it wasn't for you taking me out of where I shouldn't be
I wouldn't be where I am today, in the very presence of God
If it wasn't for you turning your back on me
I wouldn't be standing in front of the gates of heaven today
If it wasn't for you telling me I'm a demon
I wouldn't know how to get on my knees and pray for someone like you
If it wasn't for you not being there when you said you would
I wouldn't know the true sincerity of God when he promised never to leave
If it wasn't for you kicking me out
I wouldn't know what it was like to witness to the world in a time I never thought I could
If it wasn't for family like you to dismiss my emotions
I wouldn't know how to love my neighbor today
If it wasn't for people like you
I wouldn't have known that blood isn't always thicker than water
If it wasn't for you to talk behind my back
I wouldn't know how famous you've made me
If it wasn't for you to completely ignore it all
I wouldn't know how much God hurts when we don't call
If it wasn't for you praying the demons out of me
I wouldn't know that prayer is not just for a sinner
If it wasn't for you leaving my pastor without health insurance
I wouldn't know what it would feel like to want to give a couple everything I had
If it wasn't for you taking money from people
I wouldn't know what it would feel like to work so hard for something just to end up a failure
If it wasn't for you to create those failures
I wouldn't know what it would feel like to be victorious in those failures
If it wasn't for you to give me an example of true corrupt leadership
I wouldn't have been able to see the honest leadership in my own Pastor and others
So while you still sing my Pastor's songs, worship in places my Pastor and others preached,
I hope you understand that I am nothing but grateful to you for showing me what it was all about…
Because…if it wasn't for you being YOU
I wouldn't have known what it truly would have been like to be ME!!
Side note: Though some won't understand this poem, others will relate entirely.
Some may bash this poem, but that's just because they haven't and probably won't ever go through this! I pray no one ever does! God be with you all!
Poem by: Jennifer Croce
I don't know this lady, Jennifer, personally but if she reads this blog I just want to tell you my prayers are with you. It is good to see a positive derive from a negative.
Peace Be Still
Dolly Dolly do you receive & accept the babble btalk of the fearsome AA DGB 8 as the "MOST POWERFUL, FEARED MEN"??
So, so sorry 8 DGB boys, but Dolly just said "I come strong w/ mighty winds and we'll see who is the MOST POWERFUL!"
In other words, nature showcases the weakness and helplessness of men. BUT, Father God shows up even mightier and stronger than nature. When He speaks, all man can do is
........ well, we all already KNOW.
The AA should add another field to their database; Members: NONE.
GO JENN!!!!
that's the HOMIE right there!!!
That poem is BOMB because it's SOOOO TRUE!!!
CORRE, IGLESIA! CORRE!
Okay, so if we're not MEMBERS, what are we? Oh yeah, I got it! We're TITHERS! Yeah, that's it! Tithers without a voice.
Ni voz, ni voto. Nomas manteniendolos en carros de lujo y viajando en avion en primera clase mientras que los NO MIEMBROS sin voz y voto fielmente envian sus diezmos y luego ahorran sus centavitos para ir a la convencion para dar mas a las Mega Ofrendas mientras que con lo poquito que les sobra comen del "dollar menu" en McDonalds para que ellos coman en restaurantes de lujo! Que Bien.
And travel they do! Back and forth they go to the Missionary camps! According to the AA Financials the poor hardworking missionaries aren't given anything to brag about. Its no wonder. The big wigs spend all the flor azul bucks to travel to the missionary sites to make sure that the missionaries are instructing the new saved souls to TITHE!
Two Vote and Carlos:
Thank you for responding to my post. I was wondering when we would be able to dialogue.
After reading both your messages I realized that if I looked at the rules that govern a NPO from the perspective of a dishonest person, anybody could easily manipulate them to their advantage (Duh! NOW I remember the United Way escandalo!)
So, I see your point.
Now I would like to know if you still stand for R4J or if you are thinking of altering the agenda.
On July 14, 2008 11:36 PM, Skotty said,
Our goals are:_DEMAND THAT THE GB STEP DOWN IMMEDIATELY!_OPEN THE EYES OF ALL WHO IGNORE WHAT IS GOING ON AROUND THEM_GIVE PASTORS A VOICE!_SHOW THE AA MINISTRY THAT THE CONSTITUTION DOES NEED TO BE AMENDED!_And _EXPOSE THE 2006 VOTING SCANDAL.
Thus far, Skotty has been the only person to actually articulate R4J's goals, and nobody else has added or detracted from them.
I point this out because some people seem to think that the solution to our problem is to go independent or create a separate organization. As you have probably read before, I challenge anybody who indicates that they think a split is necessary or that we should allow a split to occur. I am not challenging the logic of anyone on this blog. Some of you are very intelligent and well-informed individuals.
What I do question are the motives of Bloggers like Apostolic Analyst and Sola dei gloria who are quick to suggest indirectly or directly that there is no solution to this issue, and that secession is the only answer.
One of you said that if I question the motives of the GB, I could see things a lot more clearly (paraphrase). I'm through asking questions about the GB. I think many people are.
I am looking for answers to this problem. Will you help me take it to another level and work together outside cyberspace to reach the goals of R4J by reaching the 400 or so pastors who do not have computers or e-mail?
I am willing to work with you, if you are willing to put in the time and energy. The pastors can vote. We can inform them and influence their votes. But it's gonna take a lot of physical labor.
In the words of Aragorn: "What say ye?"
God Bless You Both
jstrad:
I am very sorry. I hope my bad attitude did not drive you away from this blog.
I am sorry that I questioned your integrity as the voice of a pastor.
There have been impostors on this blog who try to discourage the Revolutionaries for Justice from moving forward.
I forget that many of our pastors are just learning to use computers and have not been fully informed about this issue.
A good friend helped me to realize that many pastors are afraid because they really do not know why things are happening, and they are afraid they may be next.
I ask your forgiveness.
Please speak with us more, and we will do our best to encourage you to "continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive."
God Bless You and Strengthen You.
snoopyd hey bro, send me an e-mail
miguelgallego80@sbcglobal.net
Active Neutrality:
Are you willing to go beyond contacting the plaintiffs and help contact pastors with no computers or e-mail?
How much time and energy do you have?
I hope you are the type of person the R4J are looking for to help accomplish our goals:
1. EXPOSE THE 2006 VOTING SCANDAL
2. OPEN THE EYES OF ALL WHO IGNORE WHAT IS GOING ON AROUND THEM
3. SHOW THE AA MINISTRY THAT THE CONSTITUTION DOES NEED TO BE AMENDED
4. GIVE PASTORS A VOICE
5. DEMAND THAT THE GB STEP DOWN
Can you agree with these goals? I think getting the GB to step down is a very lofty, and virtually impossible goal, but we haven't really sat down with anybody to discuss these goals. However, I do think that within the next couple of years we can empower more pastors to make sure the GB does the right thing at the next election.
God Bless You.
After reading Saul Avila’s letter to Daniel Sanchez in letters@ AA.info, I am aghast at the verbiage used.
I should have counted the number of times that Saul called himself Sanchez’s servant. There was an air of submissiveness to man (Sanchez) that I found appalling. Beyond that, the intelligent comments and questions presented by Avila were lost in the dramatic
posturing of the letter.
It is precisely this kind of servitude to our GB that has gotten us into this predicament.
Here we know that Sanchez is taking the AA to the cleaners and has a new corporation to transfer assets to, leaving the AA of California in a fix, but yet Avila is willing to call himself a servant of this thief? This is one of the plaintiffs? Something is wrong with this picture.
This is so far beyond the scope of fixable, that I despair for the AA. If we cannot understand the evil simplicity of how we are being hoodwinked, we cannot come against it.
If we are not willing to look at the reality and veracity of the facts that are so clearly presented on this blog, we cannot arm ourselves. Maybe, we just don’t want to address this dark evil that is before us.
Is it because we are not armed with the full armor? Are we not sure that God is on our side?
Are we not clear on what is right or wrong? Why is Sanchez getting away with this? What kind of evil control does he have that in our belief, cannot be conquered?
Can we not call on the God whom the wind and the sea obey? Have we left the power of God behind in order to have convenience for some, power for others and carnal challenge for yet others?
Contrary to the misdirection several bloggers have tried to send the readers on regarding my comments, I DO NOT want a split, I DO NOT want a second corporation managed by three men, and I DO NOT want four good Pastors and Bishops removed from the Assembly.
But if we continue to give man the glory that belongs only to God, we will continue to plummet into ecclesial oblivion.
We have to stop with this ‘corre, iglesia, corre.” Instead, we should say, 'ora, iglesia, ora."
The Assembly has to stop running and stand up for what is right, what is ethical and honorable, and get the 3 evil thieves who have come to rob and pillage out of the church.
Duerme,,,Iglesia...Duerme!!
Apostolic Analyst:
On April 10, 2008 11:36 PM you said:
" Instead of going to the UPC and be second class citizens there, lets go with Iglesia de Mexico, bring them our education, our organizational skills and the leadership they need to help our people prosper.
We don’t have to leave this country to do mission work. God is bringing these people to us. Get in touch with Iglesia Apostolica de Mexico.org."
How am I supposed to believe you when you say, "I DO NOT want a split, I DO NOT want a second corporation managed by three men, and I DO NOT want four good Pastors and Bishops removed from the Assembly. "
God Bless You
You can believe me because I would prefer for those WHO HAVE HAD to leave because they were forced out of the Assembly to go to another denomination with like beliefs.
Would I suggest any church or Pastor to LEAVE the Assembly for no good reason and go to another organization...NO.
snoopy
it concerns me that you are not
grasping what is going on in this
situation. you do not wish to
split, you do not believe in
independent churches, yet you
yearn for change. what is it then
you want? if the general board
desires to split the assembly, how
then can you not open your mind to
see that they are doing it. you
need to open your mind. you sound
educated yet stubborn. i recall
in conversation between you and
godisjust mentioning you are from
the indio church. do you believe
you are not going to be next
because your church is big? do you
not know that sam valverde is
rivals with your pastor? that
being said, wouldn't your pastor
be on the list to be next? as the
appeal comes forth, lets see what
the actions of the general board
are going to be then. think about
it snoopy. you bashed a pastor and
ask others to reveal themselves.
why not reveal yourself? you come
with boldness and leave with
satire.
What we need for the next election is a platform. Skotty, you are on to something. We need candidates who will work to reconcile the church and not continue the politics of Sanchez/Valverde/Pacheco which has lead us on a path of spiritual and organizational distruction.
Their conduct is blatantly wanton. Sanchez talks about entering a time of healing, while at the same time stabbing his brothers in the back.
This general board needs to be totally removed since they all have supported this path.
A clean slate with a new platform is over due.
Unless, however, the current board begins to reach out and work and restore Abel Torres, Baldemar and company and start a new path, including the removal of Pacheco.
If not, then they risk not being re-elected, and being summarily removed without cause, and dismissed, stripped of their ministerial licenses and removed from their pastorships without any compensation whatsoever.
The court has already spoken. The rules have been established thanks to Sanchez and company. Time for us to use the court ruling against them.
Henry
Do you think the ousted Brothers
would want to come back to our assembly, since they may be incorporating their own church and won't have to be sending any offerings and quotas to any hdqtrs.
Who knows how much if any hard earned moneys from the memberships has been lost already.
apostolicanalyst:
Thank you for the clarification. You and I don't dialogue very much, therefore, I'm not really clear where you stand.
It seems to me that you are very passionate about the GB stepping down.
God Bless You.
tijuana guerrero:
You said:
"... all this education and organizational skills you are talking about ..."
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you're talking about. I don't recall discussing organizational skills and education with anybody.
Could you please re-post the comments I made which you are referring to?
Thank you.
God Bless You.
snoopyd--repost
My apologies to you. You were refering to apostolicanalyst so my comment will be redirected to him
I apologize.
Jew or gentile:
You made quite a few assertions that I would like to discuss with you, so I'm going to have to take them one at a time.
You said:
"you do not wish to
split, you do not believe in
independent churches, yet you
yearn for change. what is it then
you want?"
Well, you are right about your first assertion. I think a LARGE split could turn some people away from God altogether. Perhaps I am being an idealist in not wanting anyone to fall away as a result of that. There is power and strength in unity. I don't believe in walking away from problems on any scale, large or small. I see problems as opportunities for us to mature. Therefore, I see this problem as an opportunity for pastors and the laity to mature as a whole, to learn to resolve differences and co-exist despite our past hurts and offenses.
As far as independent churches are concerned, I have not had any experience with them, therefore I am not comfortable with the idea. However, as I learn a little here and I little there, I can see how they can work. My biggest issue is accountability on every level. If an independent church can exist without handing over absolute power to any party, then I think they're on the right track. It's just that out here in the valley, our independent churches are extremely liberal. They have great sermons preached, great programs for everyone, but not a whole lot of accountability and a great deal of anonymity among the brethren.
You are right about the fact that I do yearn for change. What do I want. I think I want what everybody else wants. I want the AA to dwell together in unity. That's where the annointing is. I want leadership that possesses honesty and integrity, not justification for unethical, unchristian behavior, i.e. "well, the constitution allows such and such." I want our uninformed pastors to be informed. I want all of our pastors to feel free, not afraid.
I will address some of the other assertions you made on the next post.
apostolicanalyst
Stay out of the Iglesia de Mexico. Can't you understand that all this education and organization skills stuff you mention has only corrupted our doctrine and has brought forth to many corrupt leaders.
You can take care of things mans way and wisdom or you can do it Gods way.
FASTING AND PRAYER
FASTING AND PRAYER
FASTING AND PRAYER
Jew or gentile:
You asked:
"if the general board
desires to split the assembly, how
then can you not open your mind to
see that they are doing it?"
I am not convinced that the GB desires to split the assembly. Men who love power do not downsize. They pride themselves in BIG. Remember, virtually all the church properties in the AA belong to the AA. There are plenty of young, ambitious, charismatic men who would are just waiting in the wings for someone to step aside so that they can pastor. What IS clear to me is that the GB wants the pastors, especially those who are uninformed, to be afraid of them. "For lack of knowledge, my people perish."
You said, "You need to open your mind. you sound
educated yet stubborn."
Actually, I am quite the open-minded person. I simply don't express everything that goes on between my ears. I prefer to maintain focus on the mission. You're right, I am educated yet stubborn. Thank you for saying that. That reassures me that I am not hiding anything. If you asked anyone who knew me, that's probably exactly how they would describe me. I glad to know that in keeping my emotions in check, I am still able to express myself honestly. It's my stubbornness that keeps me focused on the goal.
1. EXPOSE THE 2006 VOTING SCANDAL
2. OPEN THE EYES OF ALL WHO IGNORE WHAT IS GOING ON AROUND THEM
3. SHOW THE AA MINISTRY THAT THE CONSTITUTION DOES NEED TO BE AMENDED
4. GIVE PASTORS A VOICE
5. DEMAND THAT THE GB STEP DOWN
More on the next post.
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