Hermanos,
Would you so kind in welcoming Brother Josh Bayne to the podium as he provides an analysis of the 2007 General Convention at the Gaylord Resort in Fort Worth Texas. Brother Bayne was asked by us to provide some insight as to what he witnessed at the convention. In my discussion with him, I realized that he may be the most unbiased person to provide this type of on the scene reporting.
I really hate to have to say, please be respectful as he is a guest blogger on this site, but I feel I must. Let's show him what warm hearts we in the AAFCJ have. I always find in interesting how we are percieved outside looking in.
*****************************************
I must admit, I was a little keener to the unusual atmosphere of this years General Convention of the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Jesus Christ. I had already done some reading and research concerning the Election Scandal of the General Convention of the previous year. During my research I found myself with a pretty objective attitude due to my lack of relationship with the Apostolic Assembly or its General Board. But as I walked through the doors of the Gaylord Texan, in Grapevine Texas, I was immediately confronted with an amazing sense of tension.
There were 2 types of people I met in Grapevine. The first was the person who was there for information and justice. This person really didn’t seem too interested in the convention itself, but rather in the business meetings and the way the assembly of believers would react to the accusations towards the General Board.
The second type of person was the vacationer. Although they were greatly blessed by the messages by people like Bro. Romo, and Bro. Aguilar, they were more there for a time away at a great resort. As a matter of fact, a good friend of mine who pastors in California said they only went to one service, as they really wanted to spend time with their family in such a “beautiful resort”.
There were plenty of rumors flying around the convention from the start. Rumors about Bishop Sanchez having a nervous breakdown. Rumors about a host of pastors who would be announcing their departure from the Apostolic Assembly and starting a new organization, or going independent. Rumors that the lawyers for the plaintiffs in the case brought against the Assembly and its General Board were present and accounted for. Although some of these rumors turned out to be true, the fact that rumors of this size had been started in the first place struck me as unusual.
I feel like everything I had witnessed so far I did so with a large amount of objectivity. I had refrained from casting stones at people. I had been very respectful of the call of God on the men’s lives who were leading this organization. But then something happened, I witnessed the offering portions of the convention, both of the Youth and General services. There wasn’t a single service I attended in which a large amount of time and effort was taken receiving the offering. Each time an offering was taken it was done so in a way that the person giving the offering was glorified for the amount they gave not the sacrifice in which was made by their giving. It truly was a sad situation. I know I may catch some heat for making this next statement, but here goes…
When will people learn that the way they treat their finances has just as much to do with them going to heaven as does being baptized in the name of Jesus? When will people learn that Jesus cares just as much about your check book as he does your witnessing abilities? The Bible has commanded us to be good stewards with the blessings, both monetary and non-monetary, he has given us. This commandment also is for the elders of the church. As a matter of fact, the offerings aren’t for the Pastors, preachers, and teachers. The tithe is, but not the offering. The offering is to carry on the work of the Lord, while the tithe is there to support the ministry and their families. I am completely confounded as to why so many Oneness Apostolic’s (UPC, PAW, IAFCJ, ALJC, AAFJC, etc.) can’t get this through their heads.
Consider this a prophetic word: When the Apostolic Church of the 21st Century turns from their money loving ways there will be an amazing Revival in the church, as well as an Abundant Harvest of new souls.
This is ultimately what I walked away with: Yes, there is probably some truth to the accusations of the plaintiffs, and yes there is probably some truth to the accusations by the defendants. But what is most true about the entire scandal is, this has everything to do with money and nothing to do with the souls of believers and the lost. Many members of the Apostolic Assembly have lost sight of what is really important.
Let me tell you what is NOT important (Here comes the heat again). Being Apostolic is not important. Walking around with your nose tilted in the air because you have taken on the title of Apostolic is so far from important it almost laughable. Jesus didn’t call you to be Apostolic.
Now for what IS important: Being a Christian. Being a Soul Winner. Being sure of your salvation. Being a Prayer Warrior. Being Sold out. Being ready for the rapture. Guess what hermanos y hermanas; None of this has anything to do with being Apostolic.
I dare you to call a Baptist church in your local town and ask them what they think of Apostolic’s. Once they get beyond the doctrinal differences they will start talking about “self-righteous attitudes”. They will tell you “they seem to be caught in the 19th Century”. “They seem to use coercion in getting new believers to come to Christ”. “Heavy Handed”, “Legalistic”, “They have Dictators as Pastors”, “They look like they fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.”. I have personally heard these comments from denominational pastors, preachers, and members (Even the last one).
Apostolics, its time to let go of “our” title, and put on the title that Christ gave us; “Beloved”.
As for the General Board and this years General Convention and Youth Conference, it was alright. Nothing to special. Lots of talk and no action. Lots of hype, but no follow through. How long will it be that a man or woman of God will finally say enough is enough and do something? The Apostolic church of yesterday is dying, the Apostolic church of Today is ill, and the Apostolic church of tomorrow won’t know what hit them.
Bro. Josh Bayne is a licensed minister and Professional Audio Engineer. He and his wife (Rebecca Brito-Bayne) have a 4 month old son named J. Michael. Josh and Rebecca are founders of MyMinistryFinder.com which links Apostolic and other denominational ministers to churches in need of their help. Consider it a monster.com for churches.
Wednesday, November 28, 2007
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Thanks,
Josh
Josh Bayne,
Can I give you a friendly bop upside your head? Why in the world did you transfer to the AA? Others are desperately trying to get out, but are afraid to lose their salvation that their pastors granted them. Yet, you willingly come to the very hell that others are trying to escape. I don't get it, are you a masochist?
Excellent article you wrote by the way, don't agree with everything, but for the most part I was nodding my head and giving you several "uh-huh's!".
I end with another friendly bop upside the head, still asking myself, "WHY!?"
Repus,
I have not transfered to the AA. No way!!! LOL... I would only be exchanging the problems I have with my organization for the problems in the AA.
Thanks for the props.
Josh Bayne,
I am relieved! I take back the "bops upside the head". Don't know why I thought you had transferred over.
I just discovered you are Rebeca Brito's (now Rebeca Bayne's) husband. We go way back, good to see she married a decent dude!
How do you know my wife??? Where ya from??? Real name??? Well if you need to email me at joshbayne80@gmail.com
Thanks!!!
Gaylord convention video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
jNt33mvHYOc
Jose:
Is the sound on your recorder bad or did it really sound THAT bad??
I didn't understand ANYTHING those jumpers were singing. What's with the brother on the end and the 'hankie'?
Was this a "choir" singing?
Was this an eveing service or was it a day service? There weren't too many there and some looked bored.
Pues, no les entendi NADA!
THANK GOD I didn't go!! Was this the 'type' of music they sang most of the convention? It just isn't mu cup of tea.
What WERE they singing anyway? Brother Romo was next to them and even HE seemed perplexed as to what they were singing!
Was this a night service?
They sound just awful!! Hopefully they sounded better live because they sound just horrible!
From the looks of it-- we didn't miss much!
To Happy
Its not my video, is Friday night service. Yes the sound was really bad.If you look closely a lot of girls were UPC no veils, I guess
The sound was HORRIBLE at convention. I was really surprised how bad it sounded. Seems like a bunch of amatures were handling it. i even pulled Jeff Aguilar aside during one of the services and told him I could help. After that I met Bro Floyd, the Convention Director.
Heres the good news everyone... Looks like I will be handling sound next year. And being it is going to be at the Gaylord again next year, I will know what to expect.
When I ran sound for CLC in Stockton, we did a yearly conerence called Landmark. It was the same situation, cement walls, and hard floors. Its an easy fix, if you know what youre doing. Echo, and distortion isnt hthe rooms fault. It can easily be remedied.
New letters at AA info the Apostolic women document is very interesting.
Bro Nava its the one that suppressed the women ministry according to the report.
Yo tenia como mas de 12 anos que no faltaba auna convension..Ya me canse de la politica y de sus programas que no funsionan. Siempre
que me hablaba un representante de un distrito no mas hera para pedirme dinero. Y pedirle 5000 dolares a cada pastor es una verguenza. Mi pastor me dijo que si queria ayudar a un misionero que le mandara el dinero a el directamente. Ojala que ustedes pusieran esta pagina en espanol para los pastores que no hablan el ingles. Lo que me gusta de este lugar es que aora la gente podra preguntarse y pedir informasion de donde se va el dinero que se recoje. Cuando tienes una actividad en grande la asamble no mas viene para llevarse la mayoria de las ofrendas. So me da gusto que no fui a esta convension,.
cual fue la meta de esta convension si no de desirle a todos los pastores y obispos.. SI hasen una tontada la gente lo pondra en el internet... ya que ellos quedaron como ejemplo de que lo se esconde por pecado puede salir ala luz. SO creo que esta convension fue para desirles lo que estaba pasando con esta demanda. Si esta convension fuera en california mucha mas gente se hubiera informado de todo los detalles y sanchez no llamaria demonios alos que pusieron las demandas.. Lo mas demoniaco es hacer programas destinados para sus bolsillos y no para salvar alas personas que estan perdidas en el mundo religioso.
mThe one thing that made me mad one year was when r maffey said... ifyou dont like the assembly leave...how about if all the religious leaders who dont produce growth to be removed from office. What good came out of this convention? I heard more things were going to be allowed, but the restoration of the church of acts. A church that grew by the power of God. Now the one thing that I am sure pastors and bishops know is this, now that the net is here, they have to cover the tracks with more caution because now people can question a pastor with out getting kicked out of the assembly.
Mr. Bayne,
Thanks for the valued and appreciated input.
I saw the video from the convention, you are right, the sound was HORRID. Whats with the big white sheet in the background?
Here I was thinking I missed out. I missed nothing.
Upon viewing the video, I would have this group Cited for Spiritual Disorderly Conduct. From the ministers sitting on the stage, to the choir, to the sound tech, to the guy who hired the sound tech, to the stage crew with their Big White Sheet.
Looking at the audience, if it wasn't for the UPC'ers there, the audience would have been cut by at least 1/3 to 1/2.
From someone in the know, the MOP only gave out $4,500 in scholarships. SHAMEFUL. 3 for $500 and 3 for $1,000
Not like they gave anything else out. All that money gone to waste.
If you were to compare conventions, as if coventions were a measuring stick, we are moving backwards.
Mr. Bayne, you are right. Its all about the money and not about souls or doing something to make this a better world by taking action to reflect Christ.
Lucky thing Simon from American Idol wasn't there. He would have had a field day...lol
The audio from the Voices from Hell has more clarity.
We're lost folks!
Who was that MC? He sure does struggle pulling up his pants every 10 seconds...lol
Well, better to pull them up then to give the audience the full monty.
Help Us Lord!
Well I was just ahead of my time. I tried to explain to my pastor about 12 years ago (entering my youth years) that women can do more in the church than cook and I was pretty much told I was out of line and was labeled a rebel.
I tried to tell my pastor and Jr. (his son) about creating a website for our church about 10 years ago- they looked at me like I was from another planet.
I tried telling my pastor and jr. about different ministries we could have in our church- 10 years ago- they're BARELY getting started. Jr. can't even get the english services going that he's in charge of. He's had the reigns for several years and still can't get past the same 8 people attending.
I decided to leave years ago because I needed to have a pastor with a vision and one that is not afraid to take steps for the betterment of his church . . I know belong to a thriving church that is on the move and talk about having a vision!!!
No I am not apostolic, but my parents are- they've pretty much shunned me and my family for leaving the AA. It was the BEST move I ever made.
Oops- sorry -- my comment was in regards to the "Women in the AA" editorial in the Assembly Letters website. It's quite an interesting article.
The Apostolic Man seems to think that women are only good for cooking and multiplying the church membership.
The Apostolic Man seems to think that women can and should only teach children, bqut not any adult classes that include men, much less teach ministers (who seem to think they know it all).
The Apostolic Man seems to think that the only ministry a woman can have is singing. When in fact there are many many ministries that we can contribute to. Pastors with this kind of mentality lack vision for their churches and they are passing this type of thought to Jr. when he takes over the church after Daddy retires. It's pretty pathetic.
I'm surprised they "let us" witness and give offering.
Most ministers in churches are so full of themselves that they believe that they know it all already and are not open to ANYTHING but what they already know.(which is not much) This is PART of the reason that churches ARE NOT growing spiritually.
It's really a shame that you can visit any church and some still have the ministers sitting on a platform as though they were gods. They sit up there looking down at everyone- uttering not a word of worship during the service- they just sit up there like they're dead. Oh except when THEY take the pulpit, then they want everyone to be running and jumping. All with their little bottle of oil ready to drown the next victim. Most of these ministers are so machistic that they would rather die in ignorance than ever be taught by a woman- it explains though why their wives usually have the type of spiritual lives that they do. Some of these wives do so many things behind their husband's back that if they found out- they'd die of shock!
I would like to see couples ministering together. The Ministry is not for the man alone. His wife should be a part of it. But I guess they don't include her because if they did, people would find out how most of these wives are treated at home.
Very few are the pastors who actually have vision for women to be used in their churches in different ministries. Very few. It's a shame.
Hmmm, I often wonder why ministers in our AA usually down women.
If a minister can have his licensed revoked for not tithing-- what do you guys think of a minister who hits his wife?????
Should he STILL be allowed to minister? To be an assistant Pastor? (Yes the pastor knows)
Then he gets up there and preaches like nothing.
Apostolic Assembly Of The Faith In
10583 Oleander Ave # C
Fontana CA 92337
Phone: (909) 822-5450
Owner: Nat Ochoa
Business Type: NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION
License #: 022668
Start Date: 4/19/1999
Expiration Date: 3/31/2008
What is this?
the sad thing is, there are many pastor going through the same thing this brother in Miss is/was going through. I was one of those pastor's. If you ask for help they think you are not putting your faith in God. If you don't attend district/sector services you are branded.. If you don't (can't/don't have) $100 plus to give you are a rebel and don't love God.
I pastored for over 6 yrs and would go back in a heartbeat, because I love the local brethern, they did all they could in their capacity. They are stuck with a man that is beating them down, I have called/written begged the AA to do something. The local brethern don't want to do anything because in the past (before I arrived) they were known as a church that used to run the pastor out. Those people left when we took over, but they don't want the stigma to continue, hench they take it from the current pastor.
Jose, that address is to a house in Fontana.
Did you get that off the Calif Department of Corporations?
Either way, if Nate Ochoa is Owner of it, with that name, SOMETHING SMELLS FISHY.
Unless, Nate Ochoa is the agent for service of process, but that would have to be Pacheco, if the AA.
Nate Ochoa works for the AA Real Estate Department, and he's from Fontana. He works with Andy Rodruiguez.
I'm just speculating...
Hmmm, if they did some transactions, and the checks were made out to the Apostolic Assembly, and Nate Ochoa has a business with that name. Then it would be easy enough to launder or steer AA moneys to his own account. Not part of the general fund...
Hmmm, I'm off to church. But this is certainly interesting and warrants further investigation.
If you please, email me at
arch.angel.805@gmail.com
Van Johnson
Hey John!
Are you the same one that did the prayer for your 8th grade gradution?
If you are then you'll know who I am by me telling you my wife worked and still works there.
Yeah I know that you know our situation, we 're getting the hammer too, Just about everyone is fed up. Even the guitar player left. Can you believe that? After playing there for 35 plus years, in the middle of a sunday service got fed up with the all disrespect, just got up and left.
To Van
http://www.fontana.org/index.htm look under
Business License List
The AA, at the very beginning had a great leader in Francisco L. Llorente. He was a soul winner. He was an educated man. He was taking the AA in a good direction.
But you all know the rest, it has already been explained. The one who would have continued the positive direction for the AA was Rev. Robert Ramirez in or about the 1980’s.
But Baldemar, being on the QC, disqualified Ramirez and no surprise to anyone, Baldemar continued as President once again.
From then on, the AA has gone down. If it wasn't for the new immigrants, our churches would be empty.
We have lost most of our 3rd generation Mexican Americans to other denominations. ie Calvary Chapel, Vineyard, UPC.
It has been getting worse and worse for lack of spirituality. In the past 23 years, all I remember is Baldemar saying ‘corre iglesia, corre.’ What did that mean? Where was everyone running to or from?
This was a man who needs to appreciate the Apostolic church that brought him from a migrant worker to the President of the Assembly and made him rich.
But he joined the bandwagon of Daniel Salomon, who has been on the board for 20 years; Ismael Arrellano who was on the GB for 40 years and Saul Avila an HGB ‘wanna be.’,
I want to congratulate the members and the Pastors, who despite all the tension, obstacles and threats, bravely went to the Convention to stand behind and support the AA despite the lousy, spiritless and deceitful men who are in charge now.
It is of no surprise that all of us bloggers are crying out to each other, struggling to find right answers when we do not have ANY leaders who are Biblically, doctrinally and spiritually prepared to help us in this crisis.
All of those leaders who used to go directly to the Bible and speak out and support the AA were respected for their sacrificial love and labor in the church, sadly they are no longer with us, but they are with the Lord.
Speaking to many pastors at the convention, they expressed this same regret and stated, ‘…gone are the days and the men who worked for souls and built the church spiritually, unselfishly helped families, invested in the children and welcomed outsiders.’
They were not the pastors who are out playing golf and leave their flocks unattended with answering machines promising to return the call …sometime next year.’
Here we all are, still lingering and holding on to see if God brings up new leadership with that same ethic, desire and love for His people and His church that we once had.
Jose:
In 1999 Nat Ochoa starts congregating at FOT.
In 1999 Nat Ochoa applies for and recieves a business license from the City of Fontana as Apostolic Assembly In the Faith.
The business states that Nat Ochoa is the business owner.
The telephone number listed on the license is the FOT main line.
The business license address was based out of a home, not the FOT Offices or church.
A business license allows you to conduct business, transact business in the business name. ie open a checking account.
Why would Malverde allow Nat Ochoa to do this? Why would the AA allow Nat Ochoa to file a business license under his name? Or did he do it without them knowing?
There are some questions that need answers here. It doenst make sense unless there is some steering of funds.
I may be wrong, but why else do what Nat did?
Take some checks which are naturally made out to the Apostolic Assembly, and have them deposited into another account, not part of the general fund and hence not reported to HQ.
I dunno, what do the rest of you think?
http://ernchez.tripod.com/introduction/main.htm
vvverrrrrry interesting.
http://www.apostoliccongress.com/gallery2.html#
Jose:
What was chocking and revealing?
I tried to hook up onto the link, but nada.
?????
http://www.ninetyandnine.com/Archives/20030512/cover.htm
Jose:
why do you keep deleting?
re the tea party: I just saw women and girls dressed in fifties-style mode.
Why?????
Dear Josh,
I hear you are willing to help the spanish apostolic’s with their sound next year.
I hope you don't because you will most likely embarrass all of us.
The truth is that the UPC doesn't have it together anymore when it comes to sound and music. In my opinion we have lost our lead in setting the benchmark and standard for Christian music amongst the “Jesus name” movements.
We use to be the place where the spanish apostolic’s would come to be taught at our bible college at CLC, but now the spanish Apostolic’s have surpassed our music in the UPC. We have just a few good musicians and music left in the UPC.
As far as the sound is concerned, the spanish apostolic’s usually has good sound, I have heard them at past conferences. I some people within their organization who know how things workin their conferences. They usually contract out with major production companies who do the Grammy's,etc... I am told by a very reliable source that they usually spend close to $50,000.00 just on the sound alone to these professional sound companies.
Josh, you are talking about running the sound like you do at Landmark. In my opinion if run the sound system like you do at Landmark it will sound really bad.
It sounds like their music department didn't do a very good job in doing the sound this year. They probably went low budget and that is what happens when you do that. I don't know who was in charge of the sound but they usually have it together in their conferences.
If I were you, I would stay out of trying to help them. They probably need to come and help us out.
I remember seeing a choir come to general conference a couple of years ago from Northern California and they showed us up! They were good. I don't think we (UPC) is at the spanish apostolic caliber any more.
That is my UPC opinion.
yes shadow, I am the same one.
In fact, the bishop I had so much trouble with is related to the one that's never done a thing about the issues there..
I know of one bishop that tried to help, but he was shot down.
We went through many, many things.
Our prayers and thought are with you..
What was "shockin and revealing" was that at a FOT women's event, they had life-size posters of Elvis Presley and banners that had printed the words "Rock and Roll."
Van..
Are you talking about the Ochoa's from Denver Colorado?
If so, the parents were very fine people.
Would he be related to the secretary Ochoa Medina of Sam Valverde's church whose offices are at the General Offices in Rancho Cucamonga?
I hope he is not related to that Ochoa family because they are all very fine people.
Donna, Donna, Donna,
I am wondering where you might have had the pleasure of listening to my Sound Engineering talents???
Forgive me for assuming here (As was your entire post... an asumption), but I dont think you ever have heard me Engineer Live sound. That is unless you were present for the Tulare, or Kings County Fair from 1997-1999... because if you were you heard me not just Engineer the Live Audio for those 2 venues, but you also heard me Run the entire show. I was the Director of Audio Engineering for both venues.
Secondly, I was not taught or trained to engineer sound by the UPC, rather was professionaly trained. I am a member of the International Telecommunications Union, which licenses me to engineer audio for any venue in the world.
Third, here are some names of groups or people in which you would know, that I have engineered sound for.
Western District Camp Meeting
Western District Sr. Camp
Western District Confernece
Louisianna All State Youth Choir
CLC (All aspect, College, Church, Landmark, Confernece, etc.)
Oregon District Camp Meeting
Oregon District Conference
Oklahoma District Camp Meeting
Oklahoma District Youth Camp
Fouth, I have a feeling you have never been to Landmark, as you would know CLC and Landmark display some of the BEST live audio in the Oneness Movement. Sure... a $1.5 million sounds system helps.
Fifth, I dont plan on charging the AA $50k for next years convention. Being I am a Christian Man, I can do it for much less, and give them much mroe quality than they have had in the pat.
Sixth, It sounds like you need some help with your sound. Give me a shout and I would be more than glad to help out... For a fee of course.
Seventh, Anyone woho would would like references are more than welcome to ask for them.
God Bless you Sis Donna.
Josh Bayne
johbayne80@gmail.com
Bro. Bayne,
I heard the audio at the convention from a few different audio sources.
All the help you can provide the better.
AV
Josh you did the sound at all these events, of which I attended almost all?
Western District Camp Meeting
Western District Sr. Camp
Western District Confernece
Louisianna All State Youth Choir
CLC (All aspect, College, Church, Landmark, Confernece, etc.)
Oregon District Camp Meeting
Oregon District Conference
Oklahoma District Camp Meeting
Oklahoma District Youth Camp
The sound was terrible! I wouldn't take credit for any of it. What kind of ear do you have to think CLC church and Landmark sounds good?
CLC church has one of the worst sound systems I have heard anywhere. I know some 500 member churches that have better quality than that.
By the way I agree that the sound was terrible in Gaylord.
I guess it can't get any worse? Unless you try to help!
Your references mentioned above are bad references. I have yet to hear any good sound at any of these UPC conferences.
Donna,
I'm not sure what the purpose of your degrading comments are, but I will leave you to your utmost ignorance.
But before I do... where did you get your Professional Audio Credentials from??? You seem to know a lot about Pro-Audio.
Josh,
Just because I don't like the way the sound is at these conferences doesn't mean you have to call me ignorant.
I am just being honest and I don't desire to start calling you names because that is not what we should be doing here.
If I call you ignorant then I am showing my own ignorance.
Please do not be offended. Do yourself a favor and go back to engineering school and do some real roady work with a true professional band.
You need some real exposure to some true professional sound.
How do you feel going to church and mixing with your pastor, bishop, minister and friends and living a double life as a blogger. It is like having a split personality, and must be a very strange feeling.
I don’t feel that way so much because my friends, my pastor, and bishop, know that I write on the blog, who I am and they commend me on it. And they appreciate the history that I have of both the AA and the UPC. However, I cannot identify myself on the blog because I do not want to be hosed down or rocks thrown at me by anyone who has a differing opinion.
I’ll tell you a little scenario of what I remember as a child of an incident between the UPC & AA. It will let you see the reality of the history between the UPC and the AA. And that is has not been a good one.
As a child I remember my pastor commenting to a group of Hispanic people who needed to be baptized that because it was winter and very cold, it was not possible to go to the river for baptisms, (at that time, the place where the Hispanic group congregated did not have a baptistery), and he had asked the local Anglo Saxon UPC pastor who did have a church building and a batistry, if he would let them use the baptistery in order to baptize ten Hispanic brethren.
The pastor who supposedly was a good ‘friend’ of the Hispanic pastor stated that he was very sorry but that his members, being Anglo Saxon would never permit ‘Mexicans” to get into their baptistery for reasons that he could not explain.
My pastor told him, ‘but brother, we are supposed to be working together in building the kingdom of God, putting aside all prejudice against one another.’ But my pastor realized that the background of the PUC is Oakies and Arkies and they had severe insecurities in racial issues.
So the baptisms were held in the river in near freezing weather. My pastors and those new converts were protected by the Lord from any illness that might have befallen them.
If any Mexican would arrive at UPC church, they were told, ‘there is a ‘little Spanish church on the corner of A St. & B St, where you can go’
But as our Mexican brothers worked and labored to educate their children, and through financial aid and student loans, those children received exceptional educations, they became professionals, then the UPC opened up their doors and formed a Hispanic Ministries where many of the children of the Apostolic migrant workers ran to congregate and give their high salaried tithes and offerings to the UPC.
The UPC is not incorporated. Each pastor owns the property of his own church and if you really want to get upset, notice that most of the pastors of the UPC who retire, hand over the church to their sons or next of kin.
They have their own personal corporation within those pastoral families. I know many UPC pastors who have big ranches that bring them a vast amount of revenue.
If we really want to know why this is approved and condoned by the Mexican American, it is because the Mexican American, no matter how well educated, has been formed and conditioned to revere the “Patron” otherwise, according to the Oakies…the “massa”.
Do we want to keep on making UPC rich? Is there a difference in what they are doing as opposed to what our AA HGB is doing?
Yes, we are going to court, but the UPC has had its share of splits because of doctrinal issues and other ridiculous things such as women cutting their hair and the use of jewelry.
As time has evolved, some UPC women who could not find Anglo Saxon men in their denomination to marry them, have rushed over to the Apostolic Assembly to find ‘Mexican’ husbands.
What a joke on the pastor who would not let his baptistery be used by Mexicans and now they are coming to us looking for spouses. God can sure turn things around.
The UPC has formed a department specifically for Hispanics. But those Hispanic pastors will never attain the position of Bishop or General Superintendent. They are in servitude making taquitos and tamales in order to purchase churches which they (the Hispanic Pastors) CANNOT own. Those properties are owned by the Anglo church of the city where they pastor in.
I take issue with double standards. I just wish that our Apostolic Assembly members could see that although things for us are horrible right now, are they better anywhere else?
Someone please do an update on how the Hispanic fares in the UPC and also find out about the net worth of some UPC pastors beginning with
Kenneth Haney.
Don't run away. Let's fix things here, in the name of Jesus.
Great, the world is going to hell in a hand basket, kia's are mounting in iraq, the HGB are fleecing the church, and all we can talk about is "Sound"?
Ever hear of Radio Shack? Frys?
UPC v Apo?
Great, pollos v oakies.
Did Jesus have sound? Did Apostle Paul or Jesus or Moses ever say to spend big $$$$ on the stage or on sound?
Thats one issue with pentecostals, you all treat church as if it was a stage show.
The Apo tells us how thier sound techs have done the Grammy's, the UPC brags how they have done Garth Brooks.
You know, even if the sound would have been PERFECT at the convention, the content of the message still sucked. The atmosphere was still disorderely. The messages were still spiritual babyfood.
The best sound in the world would only have added clarity to the ignorance spewed by religious fools who have turned the church into an ATM.
-----------------------------------
The UPC see's the Latino Community as those Natives that need evangelizing.
The episode in Borat says all you need to know about the UPC.
Lee Stonequeen, definately a homo. This man once said all people in prison needed to be shot. Ummm, most inmates are mexican and black.
Yes, Lee Stonequeen is a racist homo.
But the sound is pretty good at winter camp meeting....
Jose,
Where did you get that scientific generated list? What survey did you use to get to that conclusion?
Totally hilarious.
I wonder if you are really “Josefina” – just like “Connie” is probably really Carlos.
Activities
* 49% of women have read the Bible in the past week, compared to 35% of men who report reading the Bible in the past week. (2007)
* Women are more likely than are men to attend church on a given Sunday (44% to 35%, respectively). (2007)
* Women are more likely than men to participate in a small group (22% to 17%). (2007)
* In general, women pray more often than do men, with 89% of women versus 77% of men reporting that they have prayed in the past week. (2007)
Faith
* Women are more likely than men to be born again: 44% of women have accepted Christ as their savior, compared to 35% of men. (2007)
* Women are 56% of the adult born again population. (2007)
* Women are more likely than are men to believe that the Bible is totally accurate in all of its teachings. (53% versus 46%). (2007)
* Women are more likely than are men to believe that God is the all-powerful, all-knowing, perfect creator that rules the world today (75% to 62%). (2007)
* 77% of women compared to 63% of men say that their faith is very important to them. (2007)
Self-Descriptions
* 68% of women describe themselves as "deeply spiritual" compared to 55% of men who say that "deeply spiritual" describes them accurately. (2006)
Very good, I'm impressed.
Jose IS Josefina.
And from reading her latest post it shows she is a FEMI NAZI !
Ultra feminist.
Did anyone else notice how Bishop Lopez used the missionaries as bait for the offering Friday night? One Missionary told me they thought they were going to keep the checks they received, until Abel Aguilar made them turn over the checks.
Did anyone see the look of surprised faces?
When the missionaries were called to the front, pastors started to pour on the money, because they too thought it was for the missionaries.
One missionary actually cried because he thought he had enough money to go back home! Then they pulled out the rug.
When Bishop Lopez said, “This is for you!” – They missionaries really believed that.
One missionary told me how they built a church (good size), and I asked him how much had the Assembly contributed to help, his reply was, “ZERO.” He told me, “I would rather you invite me for a cup of coffee and slip me a check, than give it to the GB.”
So much for “Flor Azul” and your Friday night “this is for missions” convention offering!
Can anyone answer why Ex Bishop Lopez is not the Bishop any more?
He just served one term.
Donna,
I don't know what your purpose is in bashing Bro Bayne, you don't see to know him personally, furthermore how can you attest to his credibility or his integrity. For someone who seems to want to come off as a respectful christian you really seem to fail as you address your brother in Christ. So tell me how does this help anything. Please don't forget we are one body and we are here to help each other the name of the organization doesn't matter. So to say to someone don't run the sounds you'll embarrass us (UPC) is just plain wrong. Your comments and your attitude embarass us as children of God. Your reasons for commenting so harshly on someone you don't know personally can mean either one of things. One you know the people who ran the sound this year and decided to defend them by bashing someone else. If this isn't the case then maybe you know someone you would like to run the sound next year so bashing someone who is trying to put there ministry out there might discredit them and give them a shot. Who made you judge and jury, why would put down someone who takes the sound ministry seriously. It could also mean that you do know Bro. Bayne and have something against him personally. If the latter is the case, then this is not the place. If we are one body, stop trying to hurt the rest of the body, it doesn't get us anywhere.
I'm not a Josefina but I do believed in the importance of women in our churches,their ministries, their talents, spiritual gifts. No I don't think the only ministry they have is tamaleras (money makers or ATM machines)or singers.Its because of mentalities like Enrique Or Nava that our churches are not growing.We need to go back an reexamine how Bishop Llorente allowed women like Romanita to develop their spiritual gifts an successfully have a growing and a healthy church.
And by the way I'm not a Nazi I'm a son of God, he too accepts woman ministries.
Van,
You need to do a very thorough inventory check of what you categorize as ministry and business and how the two relate. There are many personal expenses involved when one has to travel to be part of a major event. If the job of a sound tech benefits the kingdom of God, then it is a ministry. He/she should also get compensated for his/her personal expenses, time, sacrifice and wear and tear of equipment. Not because ministry deserves monitory compensation, but because life's responsibilities demands it, ie. time off of work, meals, lodging, vehicle expenses, etc.
Your mentality will take ministry no where really quick.
wwjc?
Van:
I offer no apologies for this and bash me all you want afterward- you will not get a response from me but I gotta say this!!
You don't seem very content as a person. You seem to have a contradictory response for every entry that is posted.
Bottom line- Brother if you are single-- you need to find yourself a girl and get married and if you already are-- you need to reevaluate the situation and take care of some business because all you need is a good lay and your perspective on most things just may change and maybe you won't be as confrontational about everything.
ding, ding, ding--
And round 12 starts . . .
Van:
stop and really think about your last entry.
you seem unhappy and bitter- that's my assumption-
you are spiritually immature-you've proven that with the content of your entries.
God Bless You.
No reply needed or requested as one won't be given.
Over and out.
Van,
I'm sorry but flushing the toilette doesn't benefit the kingdom in any way whatsoever - flushing the toilette after yourself is called "being socially responsible". So no, this doesn't make you a minister.
The reason you turned off the lights to the bathroom is because you are a minister. As soon as you gave your life to Christ, you were given the ministry of reconciliation thus anything you do afterwards that benefits God's kingdom ultimately contributes to helping the world reconcile itself to Christ.
I suggest you take a discipleship class outside of the AA or do some research on your own regarding ministry.
Flushing the toilette? Are YOU serious!
Ayyyy 'Vannie Boy' you are truly a NECIO!!
Since you seem so well informed about EVERYTHING-- look up in the Bible and see what it says about necios.
Ya aplaquate!
Gidget:
Dare you call me Thou Necio?!
If the zapato fits, I'll wear it.
That be a 13EE.
Van-seem to read into EVERYTHING and even between the lines! are you OCD? you come off as though you may be. did you miss your dose today?
seriously though- sound may not be a ministry per se- but it is a service- whomever is running it, is ministering because it is benefiting the people. you can't compare oranges to apples- flushing?? come on -- that's a bit far out there.
no God didn't have a sound ministry- but come on brainiac- these are different times. you're not always going to find what we do nowadays and compare it to biblical times. for instance, blogging sure as heck didn't exist then-- but this site is a source of information for us and it is beneficial. and no- i'm not saying that blogging is a ministry so you can put down that extra pill before you OD.
Not everything is free.
And don't pull out the wwjc card on this entry either.
make sure you wear both necio shoes and the necio hat and coat as well.
Talk about being bitter.
Yes, I shared my opinion. Obviously, I'm in the 1% of Apos that think "Sound" is not a ministry.
99% of you think I'm wrong. I acknowledge the majority vote and you have won me over. I have performed the political flip flop, aka the waffle.
Reaching the lost, witnessing, feeding the hugry, helping the helpless, pastoring, praying for the sick, and now Doing Sound.
For those in the 949 and 714, do you really mean that Jr. Aguilar, no relation to Abel and Company, is in Ministry?
So be it. You have spoken.
I sure am glad to see this blog cleaned up!!
what happened to all the chismo bloggers that were on here spewing venom about everyone and everything before the blog registration began? They thought it was a free for all.
(Sing to the tune of 'Donde estan los que Decian Haleluya) Ayyy-- no se hagan- you KNOW what song I'm talkin' 'bout gente!
Donde estan- los que estaban chismoseando?
donde estan los que estaban criticando?
Donde estan que los busco y no los hallo?
Pues el Senor al chismo lo callo.
hirraaaa!!!!!!!!!!!
Happy:
Hilarious! lol
Yikes!!! What have we started here???
I must admit... it sure is funny... I loved the "wwjc" post!!! Even if the issue is about me (kinda), I must admit, I did chuckle.
Im not trying to justify me being a "Minister of Sound", but think of it this way...
The soundmans job is just a important as the Preachers... Hold on with me... give me a runway...
Although the Preacher may preform his duties by speaking a word to a body of believers, it is the Sound Techs Ministry to "deliver" that word. In a way that is effective and understandable.
I may be going into the "What if" scenarios, but I think it stands...
What if someone in the audience that night really needing a word of encouragement... and all they hear is horrible feedback, distortion, and all around bad sound... could it be said that the word of encouragement was not delivered due to the sound techs lack of skill in delivering that word of encouragement???
Maybe a person is in the seats that night who doesnt speak english... a translator mis-translates the word the preacher gives... could the translator be held liable for his/her lack of ability???
Assuming you think that Translating for someone could be considered a ministry, consider Running Sound, translating. Translating the word into a "hear-able" media.
Get you Apostle Paul....
Go ye therefore and amplify with clarity and enough base all nations...sound teching them in the name of Radio Shack.
The last thing Sanchez, Malverde, and Pachuco need is clarity of message. Horrible sound might actually help them....
I wonder how Jesus preached to 5,000 people without a sound ministry?
To those of you who are so confused about the sound system at the Convention, this is not a first that the sound was so bad.
Where have all of you been? During the time that Bro. Junior. Garcia was MOP President, he tried to present a sermon on Romans Chapter 1, on the Sodomites that appeared to be coming into the AA.
The poor man couldn’t preach and had to sit down because the sound was horribly distorted and we could not understand a word he was saying.
A. Mesa, was the sound man in all those conventions, and he would distort the microphones whenever he didn’t like who was singing or talking or preaching. I call that sabotage, and I think that is what happened at the recent convention.
I have been to many conventions, and if you have been to past conventions, you will also know what I’m talking about.
A word to any future sound man, keep track of all your equipment. Check your wiring after all has been installed. I saw it happen, trust me.
Hey, Van, you’re right on with your comments. Please continue. I look forward to your input.
I think Jose or Josefina is a young ladie from Texas. Three things that always lie, Statistics, statistics and more statistics.
Peace
I telling you now, something big is going to happen this week. Something very big....Those "Men of God" in California are corrupt. If they are monitoring these blogs like many say I want to tell them the following... "You only have interest in yourself and you dont care about the rest of the church. Yes you want to see progress and growth but only so that you can boast and look good in front of others... You may get away from the hands of the court and man but God will repay each of us according to our deeds."
No Jesus in this Organization
Everything around us seems to indicate that this organization is one that has Jesus Christ as the center of this fellowship. That He Is the foundation of everything we do as an organization.
Our name is, the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus, Inc. All signs indicate that this is an Organization, Fellowship or Church whichever you may prefer in which our foundation and basis is one common thing: Jesus.
“For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” 1 Corinthians 3:11
My intent is too simply state: There is no Jesus in this organization.
We talk so much about having the truth, we look at others and we say, “Well they don’t have the full truth we have the full understanding of God and the whole gospel.” Yet here we find ourselves fighting amongst each other. Jesus is Love, Jesus brings peace, Jesus places in our heart a Joy that is inexpressible (1 Peter 1:18). As a member of this organization or a casual reader ask yourself, “Do we reflect these attributes?” “Do we have Jesus in our hearts? Or just contempt for our brother?
I have no idea what is going to happen during the following weeks. Maybe the Petitioners will win and we are able to change our organization for the better. Maybe they don’t and the General Board continues for the next 3 years trying to heal or to have a healthy assembly.
One thing I do know: “Everything rises and falls on leadership!” Our leadership reflects what our organization is really about. And as much as it hurts me to say this, it is simply the truth. We are corrupt to the core! How can we be healthy when elections are rigged for the benefit of a few? I thought we as Christians “Apostolics” were suppose to have the truth and to be servants just as Jesus taught His disciples (Luke 22:27, John 13:1-6).
Jesus said, “For who is greater, he who sits at the table or he who serves? Is it not he who sits at the table? Yet I am among you as one who serves.” Luke 22:27
Jesus compared the mentality of the world against His teachings of being a servant. In this world, the one who sits at the table is the greatest but in the estimation of Jesus, the one serves is the greatest. Yet we have it all backwards, those of us who look out for our own interests are the ones with the mentality of the world.
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Phil. 2:3-4
Does this really reflect our organization? One founded on Jesus Christ and His teachings?
I don’t know if the General Board, Bishops, Pastors and all leaders of all faucets read these entries, but if you do I want to tell you something on behalf of all of the true Apostolic Assembly members.
“You have let us down. We are ashamed to be called members of the Apostolic Assembly, not because of our Doctrine, our worship style or even our dress code but because of our leadership who does not have Jesus in their hearts.”
You don’t care about us, you only care about yourselves. You abuse the power that was given to you for your own benefit. When Christians leaders follow God’s will and serve their people that my friend is called a theocracy. But when leaders rule for themselves it is merely a dictatorship.
And as a leader (Board member, Bishop, Pastor) if you are reading and it does not move you to have compassion for the church that Jesus Christ shed His blood for, something is seriously wrong with you.
I know my words are strong, but look at what has happened. Our church is not healthy. Just look at the blogs, look at the letters, youth, Pastors and families. The church is bleeding and it has been infected with corruption. Will a true man of God please stand up?
May God have mercy on us all!
THERE'S ENOUGH CORRUPTION TO GO AROUND!
One of the consenters, Ishmael Arellano was the director of foreign missions and was on the board for 24 years, he had a child out of wedlock.
About his 17th year of being on the board, a married woman with children came knocking at his door to tell him that she was his daughter. It was then that Ishmael Arellano had to inform his colleagues and his church that he secretly had a child from another woman before coming to the Lord, and had never told anyone because he was afraid of how it would affect his ministry.
1 Tim. 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
Ishmael Arellano never owned up to his responsibility as a father. Even after she had made contact with him, he made no effort to make up for the damage he had caused her for so many years. To this day he still is not a part of her life nor her kids' life. What's worse is that she only lives in a neighboring city.
So, Ishmael Arellano, director of foreign missions, his job was to take the gospel to the entire world, but was never a provider to his own first child. After the GB found out about this, they were ok that he had abandoned his first child, they rewarded him with more terms on the general board.
How can you go out and save the world and abandon your own? I don't get it. A man who abandoned his duty as a father, was allowed to stay on the board. He still chooses not to be involved with his firstborn. And she is not a believer, what a testimony. The bible says he is worse than an infidel for not being a part of his daughter's life.
These are the role models that us apostolics have had for decades. It is nothing new. The GB cannot be trusted, they have no integrity, never admit mistakes much less try to correct their mistakes. They just sweep them under the rug and hope that people will just forget or never find out, instead of fixing the errors. It's not just with this current board, its been like this since I can remember, I have stories from even the 50's.
It will be like this until we put real men on the board who have integrity and have their priorities correct.
Wow. If that is true about Arellano, geez. Leave his own blood pretty much fatherless? Did he at least pay child support? Did the mother go after Arellano for child support?
Character matters. Even more so when you sit in high places. Arellano always looked like a crook. I won't even go into the issue he shares with Del Campo, yes, its biblical.
But I never imagined he would have been a crook to his own child, if the comments are true.
If its true, then Arellano qualifies for the All Time Cowardice Award.
Thats why nobody should every be prideful and arrogant.
Because we ALL have sinned and have fallen short.
But boy do some people in our Assembly make you feel like a demon if you even dare to make a mistake or go against the grain.
Those who criticize the most and judge usually have a closet full of skeletons.
Thats why I am up front from the get go and tell people im no angel but by the grace of God I live every day with the desire and intent to draw closer to The Master and perfect this walk as much as is possible in this flesh.
For those of you who are expecting to have successful PA systems in future conventions, be sure to look out for fellows like Ariel Mesa who was the sound man at conventions in the past.
Mesa was the one who would turn the PA system on and off to control who was heard or not at any convention or event.
What Mesa has gotten away with since he was treasurer for the MOP, District of LA, is a larger story I will not go into here.
Suffice it to say, he is now hooked up with his brother-in-law Abel Aguilar as business administrator of the Santa Ana church.
I find that most of the ills in our Assembly, things like fraud, sabotage, conspiracy, shunning, embezzeling, blackballing, have been learned over the years by others who have been used by Satan who seeks to destroy.
Again, I don't think it was just bad sound equipment or a bad sound man at the recent convention.
I believe someone sabotaged the PA system to Josh Aguilar, nephew of Ariel Mesa just as Mesa did to others in previous conventions.
This behavior of sabotage that has happened in the past continues to happen in ALL AREAS of ministry in our Assembly.
Why is it so much easier for these people to do evil than to do what is right and honorable?
May God help us all.
Didnt Ariel Mesa steal money from the church fund or something like that ?
I remember hearing something l;ike that.
Correct me if im wrong
I think I heard somewhere that the Mesa that ripped off a church was named Richard but not sure, the allegement is that he ripped off over $200,000.00 from the Mendota in Central Cal.
Hey Colorado we want to know more stories. Give us some of those oldies but goodies.
The think the list would be shorter if you asked which Pastors or Bishops have not ripped off churches!
ALERT! For those of you who think the consenters are heroes, think again. Please read on, this was taken from another post:
--------------------------------------
One of the consenters, Ishmael Arellano was the director of foreign missions and was on the board for 24 years, he had a child out of wedlock.
About his 17th year of being on the board, a married woman with children came knocking at his door to tell him that she was his daughter. It was then that Ishmael Arellano had to inform his colleagues and his church that he secretly had a child from another woman before coming to the Lord, and had never told anyone because he was afraid of how it would affect his ministry.
1 Tim. 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
Ishmael Arellano never owned up to his responsibility as a father. Even after she had made contact with him, he made no effort to make up for the damage he had caused her for so many years. To this day he still is not a part of her life nor her kids' life. What's worse is that she only lives in a neighboring city.
So, Ishmael Arellano, director of foreign missions, his job was to take the gospel to the entire world, but was never a provider to his own first child. After the GB found out about this, they were ok that he had abandoned his first child, they rewarded him with more terms on the general board.
How can you go out and save the world and abandon your own? I don't get it. A man who abandoned his duty as a father, was allowed to stay on the board. He still chooses not to be involved with his firstborn. And she is not a believer, what a testimony. The bible says he is worse than an infidel for not being a part of his daughter's life.
These are the role models that us apostolics have had for decades. It is nothing new. The GB cannot be trusted, they have no integrity, never admit mistakes much less try to correct their mistakes. They just sweep them under the rug and hope that people will just forget or never find out, instead of fixing the errors. It's not just with this current board, its been like this since I can remember, I have stories from even the 50's.
It will be like this until we put real men on the board who have integrity and have their priorities correct.
He who is without SIN cast the first stone.
I agree these men have made mistakes in the past, but if BLOOD have forgave them who are we to try and bring them down.
THE INSIDER
Hello The,
i think you missed the point. bro Ismeal Arellano messed up by chosing to become a deadbeat dad, this is not a mistake, it is a intentional choice. I sin also, and I also become forgiven, but it looks like the general board didn't care that thye had a deadbeat dad on the board. Theey are other young men that the GB did not allow to become minsiters beause they fornicated. So it appears that the GB have lead with a double standard.
As they say, "se muere el moscon, pero deja el guzano."
Regarding sound people and those who depend on them, always sleep lightly and keep track of your equipment.
You never know who is angry at who and why they would think it is okay to sabotage a particular group, choir, singer, speaker or whatever person.
The PA system is what sustains the messages and ministries of services and conventions.
The Lopezes from Union City and the Mesas and Aguilars have dominated the function of the PA systems for a very long time.
You could always tell who was angry at who by the way the sound was handled for whoever was on stage.
I knew who was in trouble with who when their sound screeched or was turned off. Some things never change.
The old 'moscons' are not working the sound anymore, but they have left their 'guzanos', (children, nephews and neices) to continue the dirty tactics of control, abuse of the audience and lack of remorse at offending God.
We have to pray for this to be rebuked, for people to grow up and for this type of thing to stop because it is generational--as in curse!
It's all connected, fraud in elections, fraud in financial accounting, fraud in sabotage of sound, fraud in abuse and control through fear of people. All done by just a handfull of families.
The person who was running the sound was Ismael Arellano's newphew or other relative. It has not been the Lopez, Mesa or Aguilar.
FYI
"""I agree these men have made mistakes in the past, but if BLOOD have forgave them who are we to try and bring them down."""
THE INSIDER
Are you freeking serious? Mistake? Election Fraud is a mistake?
Edward Pacheco Scamming money from hermanos while being an ordained minister/pastor is a mistake?
Arellano, while a licensed minister and board member, being a deadbeat dad is a mistake.
Yes, they can be forgiven. But they must be held accountable for their actions.
"Under the blood" doens't mean you shouldn't have to pay restitution for your actions.
Thats the problem with pentecostals. You seem to think because you say "foregive me Jesus" that repentance is completed. But what about the victims of the sin?
Take Arellano for instance, I'm sure he told the board, "I repented and its under the blood". But he still didn't man up to his responsability as a father.
Ha, try that next time you go to court on a traffic ticket. Tell the judge, "Your Honor, but I repented and claimed the blood of Jesus"
You tell me the Judges' response.
I'm am the Judge and I have Spoken! So be it!
TO VAN...
Calm down. I agree these guys need to go down.
I'm not related to Ishmael A. however we don't know the facts behind this situation.
Sanchez needs to go, the buck stops with him.
Valverde has never been completely in control. With the MOP he was Abel Aguilar's vice. NEVER PRESIDENT.
Pacheco needs to go, he is just doesn’t meet the height requirements.
Maffey - ?
Espinosa - He found favour from Sanchez
Aguliar - I like him, lets give him a break
Martin del Campo - (Mr. Capulina) needs to go back to Mexico, where he RAN from.
Prado - He could stay.
THE INSIDER
I agree with most of your list however I made a few changes.
Pacheco needs to go, he just doesn’t meet the height requirements.
Maffey - Arrogant and very legalistic. You wouldnt want him moving up the ranks to President you all would be sorry.
Espinosa - Yes Man
Aguliar - Arrogant and yells too much no substance in his preaching.
Martin del Campo - (Mr. Capulina) needs to go back to Mexico, where he RAN from.
Prado - Another Maffey cronie that is a yes man and very arrogant
Man they all have to go.
My wish list for a New general Board would begin with.
Phil Saenz
Any other good candidates ?
New People for the General Board
-Abel Torres (Integrity and Character, a man who has given His life to the church)
-Julian Aguirre (Strong Convictions, Leadership and Loves God w/ all of His Heart)
-Frank Romo (Not just a preacher but a good man of God)
Just three I thought of.
Paul,
That is an awesome list !
I agree these Men as far as I know are upstanding Men of God.
Not flawless , Not perfect but true Men of God.
Calming down.....
The Entire General Board needs to be given the boot.
They all are beneficiaries of the current election fraud. They all have suspect histories and all have dirty hands.
Julian Aguirre and Frank Romo would only continue nepotism.
Romo Jr is on the National MOP and they have shown themselve worthless deadbeats. They make the most recent administrations look genious, even the Maffey Administration.
But then again, they are mostly all from Texas and Arizona. Thats what we get for promoting the "Minor League".
We need fair and open elections. Candidates must be selected from an eligable pool of qualified candidates. Qualified as per the Consitution, not the CID.
There nothing wrong with us having the ability to scrutinize their backgrounds and accomplishments.
Currently, we, the members of the AA, don't have the ability to vote. We don't get to read up on platforms and vision that they have for the organization, if any at all.
Right now, we hear Malverde and Pachuco tell us of their degrees in Theology from LOGOS, as it turns out, La Puente Bible School. Forget they dropped out of secular school.
Pacheco brags about his accomplishments, but no one bothers disclosing his involvement in the Car Scam nor his performance on the Missions Department.
Ugh, its enough to make you want to go to church online...
To Hello who wrote in December 4, 2007 10:29 PM:
"At least you have to agree that our president Sanchez is a man with a spotless testimony .Very humble man, never lied, never has taking away nothing from anyone."
You MUST NOT know this man! Did you know that the AA lost a lawsuit because Sanchez LIED UNDER OATH in a trail regarding the where abouts of his brother. Did you know that he specifically told MartindelCampo to write the CID so he could get rid of people he didn't like on the GB. Did you know this man is VERY insecure and is control issues (thus this present mess). Did you know that he is a firm believer in the continued oppresion of women in ministry. I could go on and on and on and on....
BEFORE YOU MAKE COMMENTS LIKE THAT, PLEASE GET THE FACTS. It people like you that continue to empower people loke Sanchez to continue the personal corruption in the church!
Amen ! APCW
Sanchez is a schemer and crooked to the bone.
He shafted his own daughter after his son in law fell out with the assembly.
Granted Ed Lopez went off the deep end with some funky teachings but you do not shun your family you lovingly restore them.
Sanchez swindled a home away from a family that he promised them he would take care of their disabled child. Shafted the family shafted the kid and took the house.
He sued brother Villegas from Texas and tried to take his church and leave him with nothing. Why you ask ? Get this " because his wife cheated on him and since a man and woman are one after marriage brother Villegas fornicated and cheated also and wasnt worthy of serving as pastor anymore.
Should I go on ?
He also cheated on his wife recently I think about 3 or 4 years ago with some chick from his church.
So is this who we want as President a dirty old man who is also very controlling and vindictive ?
No wonder were in this mess too many men being appointed to positions and not being annointed by God.
it sounds like more gossip to me.
evidsnse? there's not evidense. hermana eva is experiencing fatigue from serving the lord for such a long time as pastors wife. plus she'e like 80 year old. a los chismosos ir al infierno.
Dan Sanchez, Ed Pacheco and Victor Prado were in South Texas on Monday for the naming of the new Bishop who was probably picked by them and the Calificadora; David Tovar, Pastor of First Church in Donna Texas. He has taken the place of Patricio Carranco, you all know the story.
What business did Prado have there? He is Secretary of Social Assistance. Just getting travel miles in, I guess.
They were all in Texas three weeks ago, and they all had to go again for the naming of a Bishop. They are not in their homes nervous and crying, they are flying about and staying in grand hotels.
Apparently, Sanchez and the General Board are not aware that David Tovar is very involved with G12 groups. We know that some of the other Pastors of the AA tried to use the G12 material, but there was a retaliation from the denomination that owns it, something to do with copyright.
Does anyone in South Texas know anymore about this? Apparently, Tovar is heavily involved with the outfit that runs the G12 material.
Question: If there is a division with the AA because of the lawsuit, would Tovar just move to the other denomination and possibly take part South Texas with him?
If Sanchez knows about the ‘iffy’ status of this new Bishop, why would he go ahead with the naming?
If he didn’t know, why would the other Pastors not have said something?
These Pastors and the Board knew about the former Bishop Carranco. There had been an investigation for several years. Again, they said nothing. It wasn’t until it exploded, that the problem was admitted.
I have no qualms about the G12 groups material. But there are some doctrinal issues in that material that are not in line with Apostolic beliefs.
Why would that not be a problem for the Board? Why would they not be concerned with a Bishop that has his toe in another doctrinal/denominational arena?
What bothers me is that the Board will look the other way when they want someone who is on their side, but if not; don’t even move a chair in your church because they will take you out.
I just wonder about the naming of this person and the REAL reason behind it. It appears that Tovar is first generation from Mexico. Why don’t they name a Bishop who has been born here or who isn’t related?
Phil Saenz, for instance, could have been Bishop here in So.Cal., but, no--it was John Sanchez, Dan’s brother……nepotism in all its glory.
Think on these things......
Enrique.....
About Presiding Bishop Sanchez...
You are lying. He did not have an affair on his wife. He is a very loyal man. He loves his wife dearly. Don't you see how he treats her? He would never cheat on her.
So do YOU know who the woman is that Sanchez had an alleged affair with?
And by the way, somebody said his wife is 80 years old. She is 65, and looks it.
the system of the 12 is a pretty good one. just take away anything you don't like. just like every article or system of work. its about helping people grow and win souls through bible studies.
most programs i could remember was about money , year and year out.
make money to pay for convention and there activities. i spoke to one rep one time an all he wanted was for us to collect money for there programs. so what good came out of this convention.? besides take care of your behind because now if you do something bad it will come out on the internet.
sanchez had an affair? del campo has a friday girl? the chismosos are funny. gossip gossip gossip, nothing but lies. you may be telling the truth on the other stuff, but not on the sexual affairs junk.
John,
YEAH ! and you would know right ?
Why would we just make things up for ?
Whats the point in that ?
They did what they did why defend them ?
You must be a relative.
You remind me of those Mom's on the news who say " my son was a good boy he could have never don what they said he did "
And there's a picture in the background of an 18th street gangbanger pelon with tattoos.
Serious Denial
mean spiritedness. now the comparisons of pastors to gangmembers. all have sinned and come short of god's glory. such venom, such bitterness, such spite.
Is there any news on the Lawsuit?
Van do you know anything about the alleged affair of Sanchez?
Hello:
I have second hand info. But its RELIABLE.
El Centro, California is a small town. All the AA's and family thereof are close. So when part of the Familia goes Drama, it spreads quik. El Centro is SMALL. Sanchez and Wifa are from there. Well, I'll leave it at that. Ok, when Eva found out, she got all suicidal, went back to El Centro, grieving, searching for guidence, counseling, talked to people.
Come on now, whats a 70 year old lady going to do? Divorce? Start over? Join Grupo Solteros? She's too vested in the relationship, ie income, property, ofrendas, the good life. I can see why she's all tore up now. She may look Apostolic on the outside, but miserable on the inside. Levi skirts and velos can't hide a destroyed heart.
Funny thing, in her moment of grief, she went to Kash, Sanchez Brother for counseling. Kash is the Sanchez Brother we don't hear about at all. Probably because he converted to Catholic. Long time ago Kash got soooo fed up with the movidas of the AA, he staight went Catolico.
What ever heppend to Elena Perez?
Who is she?
Isn't Elena Perez the girl that L. Montes grabbed?
I thought it was Cruz, but hey maybe thats another one.
Besides the Pastor has Lucy Montez on a on a tight leash now.
Right Becky?
Why would Lucy Montes rub Liliana having much at home.
Sorry Becky!!
THE INSIDER
I am I guess I was what you all refer to as a 3rd generation Apos. I have a family of my own now and thank God for my children being able to have true relationship with God.... rather than a RELIGION of fear and humiliation.I look back at the youth days in the 90's and can honestly say more than 75% of my generation are all jacked up today. This is due to lack of relationships with God. Kissing butt to a pastor, wearing skirts, veils oh and dont forget going to an ACE school everyday is not salvation. We were so brainwashed and focused on how to look on the outside when our hearts and relationship with God was what really mattered. I find it really sad what I read and hear yet it is so true.
One Pastor that was maliciously and cruely removed during the Baldemar reign and when Dan Sanchez was the Bishop of LA district. was from the South Gate Church here in CA ., Rev. Jesse Espinoza, no relation to Artie Espinoza.
He was yanked out of his church without explanation. Martin del Campo was put there as pastor.
This case went to court. They said that Bro Espinoza was removed because he was accused of not participating in and cooperating with District Activities.
When Bro Espinosa assumed the church, they had a $4000. per month mortgage. He and the congregation had to work all the time just to meet those payments. They really had no time for District activities.
The GB accommodated Martin del Campo with the Pastorship of the church where he remains to this day. He was also named Bishop of the LA district over many good men who were qualified to be Bishop.
Again, here comes someone out of Mexico and steps into the place that others from here have worked hard to build and develop.
Martin del Campo, among his many other faults, monitors the Iglesia Apostolica de Mexico, that is growing rapidly, and keeps AA GB informed as to how many churches are being planted in the US.
This is why he gets all those 'privilges.'
Postcript...
Two Apostolic Assembly church buildings here in California were sold during the Baldemar reign to Buddist organizations for use as Buddist Temples.
Easy to locate. Just do the research. I believe one was sold for about $3+ million. (around 7 or 8 years ago)
Bro. Jess Espinosa (South Gate) was also accused of having an affair.
That take over was so ugly, Bro. Oscar Barbosa was bishop at the time. The AA president was Vizcarra. I remember that all the pastors in the district had to take members of their church to spend the night because the South Gate (Jessie’s members) wanted to come back at night and take their equipment.
That was an ugly Sunday. The South Gate Police department was call to keep the peace. Brothers Barbosa, Alfredo Carrillo, Jesus Arreloa, and the elders at the time walked into the church with a police escort and told Bro. Jessie he had to leave. He was escorted out of the church. There was some pushing and shoving.
No one can tell me this is not true because I was there…..
Here is another case of favoritism, moving a pastor from one place to another. Barbosa left Baldwin Park in the RED and they moved him to 1st Compton. After a few years of milking it and leaving them in the RED. He takes over the church of Santa Barbara after his son-in-law Joe Prado is sent to the mission field.
They sold the church of Santa Barbara for 1.3 million when it was worth 4.2 million. This is what happens when you put uneducated people to make decisions.
Get the facts straight please . . .
Bro. Barbosa built the church in Baldwin Park. He wisely purchased the church building and the adjoining properties so the church could have more room for future growth.
After serving as Bishop of the East Los Angeles district, he left Baldwin Park ONLY because he was sent by the Bishop President to clean up the alleged abuse that was happening in Compton. They needed a seasoned Pastor with an excellent character to take on the challenge. The 1st church of Compton was falling to pieces. Outhouses would have made better restrooms than what was there. The other buildings had been condemned. Whatever money had been coming into the church was not being spent to make any improvements. Under Pastor Barbosa’s leadership, the dining hall and the classrooms were made safe. The Church building was remodeled and given a major face lift. The sound system was updated and the parking lot repaved. The baptistery that was falling apart was removed and replaced. An entire second floor for offices was built. During this time, he lost his 23 year old son Adam, who was a gifted minister, to brain cancer. To my knowledge, the church was solvent when he was sent to Santa Barbara. And did I forget to mention all of the men of God he sent out to start new works? BTW the church Pastor Barbosa built up in Baldwin Park was given to Eleazar Rodriguez.
As for favoritism . . . moving a Pastor away from a church that he built from the ground up is not exactly showing favoritism.
As for removing Bro. Espinosa (South Gate), a true leader knows how to follow. Bishop Barbosa was given an order to remove the Pastor of South Gate. You can’t take on a position of leadership and expect you can avoid the difficult tasks. Sometimes you must do things just because you’ve been ordered. And Brother if you were there, were you also there when the coroner gave the report ‘death by the hand of God’? If remember that, then at least I know you’re for real.
Here’s a tidbit for you - although English is a second language for Bro. Barbosa he has attended Fuller Seminary and Rick Warren’s Purpose Driven Church Conference – before it was the ‘in thing’.
As for the value of the property in Santa Barbara, it was a few years ago that it was sold. Values have risen considerably since then. Are you referring to the current value? Also keep in mind any sale of real estate must be approved by the GB.
Out of the woodwork,
You said " Bro. Barbosa has attended Fuller Seminary and Rick Warren’s Purpose Driven Church Conference "
Is that supposed to be impressive that he attended a school and conference by unenlightened trinitarians ?
The work of The Lord has nothing to do with education and degrees.
If a man attains an education it refines him and expands his knowledge and vocabulary.
However it does nothing for his soul and spiritual life.
Some Men get educated only to reach arrogance and pride in their Education.
Im not against Education as I hold a degree in Logistics and Supply Chain Management.
However one has nothing to do with the other.
To Outofthewoodward: You said, "And Brother if you were there, were you also there when the coroner gave the report death by the hand of God’? If remember that, then at least I know you’re for real." Please don't tell me that you are referring to the death of Adam.
As for the sale of Santa Barbara asked any current member what happen. They heard "over 1 million and they jumped on the oppurtunity". The people that purchased it turned around and sold it for 4.3 million. That is Public record.
I will give Bro. Barbosa credit, "HE IS A YES MAN".
Is this Barbosa related to the pervert ex AA Pastor Luis Barbosa that kidnapped two girls back in the early 80's and sexually abused one of them for days.
He would still be Pastoring today if the Law had not caught him.
The AA would have just swept it under the rug.
He was also principal of Adam Lopez's Faith Academy.
No wonder they have had so many top notch grads.
Enrique: What oneness school has a degree program in ‘Logistics and Supply Chain Management’? Must have been atheists/Trinitarians/devil worshippers.
As presented, just a tidbit. Bro. Barbosa has attended many other conferences and is an avid reader. This was not the focus of my comment.
The ‘December 7, 2007 8:10 AM’: No, I am not referring to the death of Adam Barbosa. I will give Enrique an opportunity to respond since it was a South Gate issue.
As to being a ‘Yes Man’, If following the word (Hebrews 13:17) means you are a yes man, then so be it. I will recommend a book to you: Spiritual Authority by Watchman Nee
Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
And finally, to Ring of Fire: Is your family perfect? Consider this ALL of Bro. Barbosa’s children are serving God.
OMG!!!! I am in shock. I was out of church for a while and therefore out of the loop- I came back several years ago and really am not onto the happenings in the AA. Adam Barbosa died?????? When did he die? How? OMG- I'm really in shock right now.
Do I have the same person in mind? Was he tall and lanky and a little dark? Am I thinking of the right person? I'm good at faces, bad with names.
the bloggers have turned into floggers. what spiritual low lifer brings up the dead to discredit his father? Adam Barbosa was an ok minister, there is no need to bring him up in this discussion.
Barbosa Sr. is a good man, and good pastor. that doens't apply to his son's, his son inlaw, or his brother. only a spiritual low lifer would tie the sins of his brother to Oscar Bsarbosa. let each man be judged according to his own deeds.
Adam passed 4/13/97
His ministry impacted many people.
I'm sure you have the right person in mind. He ran Junior Camp in LA District
Prado is a sham too? Gee, what a shock. That man loves to bilk the system. What about Joe Prado? The self professed "Healer".
He moved from the mission field cause he said his kids were sick. Why didn't he pray for them and heal them? Didn't he at one time proclaim to have risen someone hermano from the dead? That Hermano must have been P$$D. Can you imagine, being in Heaven, chilling with The Lord, and all the Peeps that call Heaven their Zip Code, then having to leave to go back to earth because brother Joe Prayed for you?
Well, I don't give Joe Prado's healing powers much credit. More La Puente Bible School jarbage.
The only Miracle these two could have performed would to have gotten VP2nd to obey the traffic laws. Or better yet, to obey the law period. Driving Recklessly with a REVOKED Driver's License is somewhat Against the law. Especially when it leads to premature death of another person.\
So, if the sins of the Father are generational, where the sins of the father pass down to their children, what does that say about Victor Prado Sr.?
Seems there are similarities with Benny Hinn and the GB.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FUyPjeIFKug
To Outofthewoodwork:
To inform you, Bro. Barbosa attended Fuller Seminary for 1 semester, in the Hispanic Program which gives credit for 5 years of pastoral ministry and 35 years of age, on a probationary status. He did not have an accredited B.A. which is required for entrance at Fuller.
It was extremely difficult for him to fulfill the academic standards that are the Fuller prerequisite for graduate work, therefore he left after 1 semester.
As for the Rick Warren seminars, anyone can attend those, and you receive no degree of any kind.
Hey Van…
You know I like you and I look forward to and appreciate your comments, but I have to disagree with you about one. It’s about Joe Prado.
I’ve known him since we were kids in So.Ca., he came from humble beginnings. In his case, the AA was of great help in forming him for ministry. I believe he appreciates this.
See Acts 1:8. This verse is applicable to Joe Prado. He is a simple man of God. He did go to Chile (I feel is the ends of the earth!).
But he cannot be accused of anything immoral or of committing any kind of fraud, scam or theft. He has been obedient to his superiors. If the Santa Barbara church sold for whatever it sold, I do not believe that any of the money stayed with him. Besides, wasn’t he already in Chile?
If his kids got sick, I can understand his fear--sometimes our faith falters. One time I remember he visited our church, God used him mightily, I saw it myself. Many people were healed and restored.
I believe that Bishop Joe Prado has a gentle spirit and kind heart. He is different from the rest of the General Board, it is a pity that he will not be used to his full potential.
Note: He is not Victor Prado’s brother, the are cousins. They are as different as night and day.
Maybe it was just one semester, but give him credit for attempting to better equip himself.
True about no degree from Warren's. Also true anyone can attend.
The point was He attended. He wasn't the first from our organization, but since then (mid 90s), many other pastors have attended. They may be trinitarians, but the teaching is not salvation based. It's based on Biblical church growth.
And remember this was not the focus of the post, just food for thought.
My name is Adam Tafoya and I am from New Mexico. For those of you wondering if I am related to Bishop Tafoya from Arizona, the answer is no. My family comes from the small northern New Mexico towns of Blake Lake / Angel Fire and Taos.
The reason why I am writing is because I use to attend Victor Prado's church for about 7 years. However, the church that Bro Prado pastors my family has been members for years. Prior to Bro. Prado's arrival I had sat under three of the church previous pastors. After meeting my wife in a UPC church I decided to leave so that I could help her pastor, now our pastor, with his home missions church.
I am a second generation Apostolic and my parents are first generation Apostolics. My Dad has been baptized about 37 years and this gave me the priviledge of being born and presented in church when The church was the only Apostolic church in Albuquerque.
I gave you background of myself so that I could share my opinion of Bro. Prado. During a time in my life when I lost my way, Bro. Prado restored me. Not only was Bro. Prado a good Pastor to me but also a friend. I can not tell you the many times that Bro. Prado advised me and comforted me when I was going through trials and having to make decisions. While I was taking classes at the community college Pastor Prado allowed me to live in the basement of the church for $150.00 a month (this was dirt cheap rent). After I was on my feet and about to get married, then my wife and I prayed about what church we were going to attend. At the time, Pastor Prado had a good group of men to help him while our church had about 15 to 20 members and I saw that Pastor Duvall (my UPC pastor) needed help. On that Sunday When Informed Bro. Prado I was leaving, I came up short with words because I felt I was betraying my friend and my Pastor. The only words I could say was I am leaving and thank you for everything. Pastor Prado in a loving way responded I did what I had to do as a Pastor. As I reflect on those words and as I am in ministry I realize that he meant he did what he had to do so that I would not backslide. After I left, Pastor Prado allowed me to get married at the church and he spoke at my wedding.
Currently My wife and I are school teachers and this Job is ideal for ministry, . My my wife is the Kid's church director and I do various outreach ministries. My favorite outreach ministry is teaching Bible studies to new convert and non-believers. My love for working with people came about through the seed Pastor Prado planted in me by demonstrating the love of God toward me. My parents still attend church with Bro. Prado and they have nothing but good to say about him.
I know Bro. Prado is not perfect and has made his share of mistakes that part of being human, but after sitting under his pastorship my opinion of Pastor Prado is that he is a godly man. I pray that God sustains him in everything he is going through. My blog is not intended to argue with anyone, but to share a different perspective of Victor Prado. God bless.
Any update on the AA's legal council bailout?
What do you mean by everything? When and where is this going to happen?
To AT.
Good to know that you a had a good experince with Prado.
I heard him preach at convention around 1996, He said his mother had warned him to be careful, because he was moving up to fast.
I guess moving up to fast the blood rushes to your head and you lose reality.
The Power, the pride and the greed come to play a factor in their lives.
They are no longer the humble men of God that strife to serve, but become Lords.
God Bless you and keep up your good work.
To Van & Enrique....
Is the person you refered to regarding Sanchez, one who sings in the Praise Team, wears very short skirts and he keeps staring at her, by the name of Grise?
Who's representing the AA now?
As these events have transpired over the last year, often I found myself questioning the strength and viability of the AA as an organization with the current leadership and the potential for brand new bunch after the lawsuit. No, I have not questioned the “integrity” and “honor” of AA leadership, especially the current team’s, that’s issue is settled for me – there is none. But looking forward, no matter the outcome of the lawsuit, the AA still faces considerable challenges.
As one of very few “Jesus Name” organizations in the world, and one of the only organizations with the capability to reach the Spanish-speaking populations, and our monopolistic claim to the “gates of heaven,” the AA cannot afford to dismiss these current events as frivolous. Taking the logic that I have just laid out, if the people of the AA are to believe this view of ourselves, then we’re compelled to arrange the expectations of our leadership so that it fits with the “view.”
I said that to say this. If we are to believe that the AA and few select other Jesus Name organizations are destined to lead a revival like no other in the history of the church, then we must believe that God in his wisdom would place men capable of leading such a revival. Get the picture? If these men can’t handle an election (both sides), then how can we expect them to handle the “greatest revival” in the history of the church? I know the bible says, that God uses the foolishness of this world to confound the wise, but this can’t be what He meant.
Ok, ok, if you actually believe that the AA, UPC, and al the other acronymic “Oneness Peoples” are the only ones going to heaven, then I could understand why some still believe that the current leadership is capable of leading such a revival.
Does anyone look around and ask, what is going here?
If this is the church of the living God, why does its leadership look lifeless and inept?
The outcome of the litigation means nothing, for the fact that they could not avoid such an outcome merely exposes their weakness.
No disrespect to Adam Tafoya.
I'm sure somewhere in Prado's soul there is some genuine love for mankind and a desire to do charitable works for the Lord.
But there is another side, the dark side, that has prevailed lately. Thats the side of lust of power and greed.
At one time Judas desired what was right. But then someone offered him some silver and he sold out.
With all the current GB and those past, lust of power and greed have taken over these men.
It has taken the over so much, that we marvel at occasional acts of charity.
It was nice for Prado to let you live in the church basement for a minimal fee. It would have been better for him to open up his home or make arrangements for you to be in a home, even for rent.
Just my 2 cents.
To 95 Theses:
I feel your pain, and I agree with you.
Maybe the prophet Jeremiah 5: 27-31has already summed it up:
"Among my people are wicked men who lie in wait like men who snare birds and like those who set traps to catch men.
Like cages full of birds their houses are full of deceit, they have become rich and powerful and have grown fat and sleek.
Their evil deeds have no limit; they do not plead the case of the fatherless to win it, they do not defend the rights of the poor.
Should I not punish them for this? declares the Lord.
Should I not avenge myself on such a nation (denomination?) as this?
A horrible and shocking thing has happened in the land;
The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, AND MY PEOPLE LOVE IT THIS WAY..
But what will you do in the end?"
Notice that God, Himself asks the question....
What answers do we have for Him? May God have mercy on us.
I know Prado as some great qualities, he can be a good friend to some people. He will also stab you in the back.
Sanchez sure is a prideful Man.
He cannot admit when he is wrong and cannot humble himself and do the right thing.
He is too worried about his own image and future career in The Assembly.
He doesnt want to lose those salaries as President and Pastor.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Talks
Proverbs 16:18..... Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.
Combine that with greed and power hunger.
Sanchez is on his way down.
I think that discribes most of the HGB, Bishops, and Pastors of the AA.
Full of pride, greed and hungry for power.
Thats the main reason we are in condition we are in today.
Bad thing is no matter who wins. We the general membership are still losers.
It will be and stay business as always.
Different Day, just the same kind of people running the show.
Shadow,
I agree with you 100%
It saddens me to admit it but the facts show that many pastors and bishops are in it for the money, fame, prestige etc....
I know its human nature to have greed, lust and pride but come on people lets at least try and have dominion over this flesh.
At least let the leaders live a little bit of a higher standard than the average Joes
My Goodness
what have you done for the work of the lord lately? bashing and criticizing our leaders doesn't count. not all of our leaders are in it for the "fame and fortune". fame of a convention? fortune of a medium income? give yourself a break. you are judging 100 percent of the leadership based on 2 percent's actions. is that fair?
John,
I said many NOT ALL !
So you can relax and take it down a notch.
You are either in denial or you are related to the GB's
Wht do you question what I have done for The Lord lately ?
Are my actions and behaviour under scrutiny ? Last time I checked this blog spot was about the GB and Election Irregularities.
Not about Enrique and wether or not he has done anything for The Lord lately.
Dont assume anything about me im not the focus of this Blog spot.
And I have not posted anything on here that isnt true so why are you getting all tender ?
First of all!
Right you don't what I have done for the work of Lord. Same way I don't know what you have done.
I'm sure everybody in here has or does something for his glory. so drop that one.
2%? I think its alot higher then that, and that the fault of the HGB. Pastors see the corruption upstairs and they want to run their churchs the same way.
Most are in it for the pay check, because they could not make ends meet in the real world. So here they are. A nice paycheck, pastor's house, light, gas and water paid. Sleep in til you want too.
Top off that with a 3 week vacation paid, even had a special offering picked up.. How nice!
Yes there are still good men of God out there, but you won't find any on the HGB or the QC.
Besides I see you spread more poison then anybody else on here.
God Bless you Bro.
you make sense shadow. yes, its probably more than 2 percent. i see where you are coming from. enrique needs to calm down. anger management recommended. let your light shine, but don't let your bulb explode. lets all do something today for the lord.
John 3:16,
2% is a very low number. To believe that 98% of all pastors and ministers are truly driven by divine inspiration and compassion is to be naive and blind.
Most men and women in the AA who truly are visionaries and are sincerely driven to fulfill God's will find that the AA does not facilitate or provide the appropriate means to fulfill their calling. They will eventually do one of two things: Leave the AA and find a place they can grow and be nourished. Or they decide to stay and boldly face the challenges of the AA eventually finding themselves burnt out, tired, overworked and at times compromising their own God-give sense in order to find favor or remain in favor with the "beloved general board".
Most men and women in the AA find themselves frustrated and discontent simply because the AA does not maximize ministerial potential in the lives they lead. The AA desperately needs to return back to the basics and redefine what being a minister means. Until that happens, you will continue have unhealthy and misplaced leaders fulfilling a calling they were never meant to fulfill. Who is affected by this? The members are effected, emotionally, spiritually and sometimes financially.
Elena Perez, doens't have a tie to Sanchez. She was an "Administrator" at Fontana, FTC. She married a couple of years ago. I don't know, maybe I'm speculating too much where I'm now suspicious of everything Malverde has done.
But she was a little to bright to be on his staff full time. She had a very qualified resume to be a mere assistant. She could have commanded a better paying job.
I dunno...
Been a pastor in the AA is not paradise. Think for a second, you have to send tithes of tithes to the General Office, pastors tithes to the district,plus a percentage to the district,flor azul, sector, mens and youth, plus the mortgage utilities insurance etc. With a Hispanic congregation? Add to that preaching religion, fanaticism, maintain the "holiness standards", no vision,a bishop on top of you, and elder and a corrupt GB, your votes doesn't count, your ideas go nowhere.
No wonder we have churches without pastors for months,because no one wants to be a pastor in the AA anymore.
When was the last time the AA sent a missionary to another country from the USA, 95% are natives of those regions. There is no pastor crazy enough to go to the mission field.
We should be very suspicious of all of Malverde's moves.
Anybody dealing with him should have every T crossed and every I dotted.
I think Sanchez will find out the hard way.
Look behind you when you walk at headquarters Sanchez, you might just get a dagger in your back if not there already.
Malverde is lurking in the shadows. Be very careful.
Going with out a Pastor for months sounds like a good idea.
All we get every service is insults and disregards to what we feel from the Pastor. His on a # week vacation and there is a very peaceful feeling here in church.
Members know they won't get that kick in the face coming from the pulpit until he comes back.
So everyone has a smile on their faces.
Shadow,
Why on earth would you still go to a church like that ?
I feel your pain bro I have had a couple of pastors like that.
Now I am in a church that is healthy and couldnt be happier.
I don't think churches will ever be 100% healthy. Why? Cause of the human factor. We just need to make sure we have Stable Pastors. And that they behave right. Got to keep them in check, but also motivated.
Keep them in check on one hand, while offering a hand of assistance with the other.
So, who is the sister with short skirts that Sanchez is always looking at?
I want to see.
It is sad but I agree with the above comments. I too use to be in a church were the Pastor Majored on the minors and although I dont really want to speak a word against Him (because He does love God). I just simply wasnt growing or being feed.
Now, Im in a different church in the "AA" that is healthy and I do get fed...
I am also a Minister preaching the word with all my heart, I want to make sure that the flock is able to recieve something for their lives...
But why is it that many churches have ministers/pastors who are incapable of feeding their flocks?
Granted Homiletics teaches us that it takes two for a message to be successful, the one who delivers (preacher) and the reciever (the congregation).
I believe it's because "we" those in ministry lack dedication and consecration (not all there are many who do give it their all)but there is only a few of us.
Its not just education and knowledge because many people inside and outside the AA are used of God without any formal education. It has to be something else.
I am who I am. In the AA I'm only a Number. My address is not important. My affiliation is affirmative AA. My Pastor is ____________, a good man. Perfect? No. For we have all come short of perfection, but we strive for it as well.
We strive for perfection, not a money collection colored by corruption.
Fight the Machine!
the godfather? micheal corleone? how original
enrique
This has been my home church since I was like 4 or 5 years old, and that has been like way back in 1959 (give or take one or two years)
I was taught that you don't go moving around, and you stay in the city that your from.( only one AA church here if you don't count the AA ran by Mexico)
But I guess I'm going to have to pack my bags and move to where I can get fed. Very sad.
what have you done for the lord today? have we all done something positive for the kingdom? for every negative we do, or speak, we should try to do 2 positives or speak 2 positives.
i give sam valverde credit, he has made an effort to modernize the church. i give credit to his effort. when everyone was filled with fear to change the system, it was sam valverde that stepped out in faith.
was his effort good enough? only time will see. while the monday morning quarterbacks of the church condemn sam, i give him credit for stepping out in faith.
modernize the church?
The only modernize to the church he has done is get rich of the backs of hermanos in real fast time.
And taught it real good to the Rest of the HGB.
WAs it that he stepped out or stepped on to get where he is at.
The proof is at hand.
thats what they said about moses. israel blamed moses for being in the desert. we all know it wasn't moses fault. blaming sam valverde is like blaming moses.
now say something positive
Man John now your comparing Moses with Sammy.
I wouldn't be surprised if he is out there right now trying to part the waters in his swimming pool after reading your comment.
You crack me up Bro. keep the posts coming.
Now thats something positive.
Dear "hello," will you please take a writting class and learn how to spell? Please?
Hey John 3:16
Did Sammy step out by faith or did he have a personal agenda? I think the latter. Sammy is all about himself.
John,
You must be a member of FOT or at least a family member of some of the GB.
That is if you arent one of the GB yourself pretending to be a average Joe.
You try to come off as spiritual and mature as if to be the voice of reason and a peacemaker.
But it doesnt take much to see thru your facade of inmaturity and lack of wisdom.
Its okay John youll grow up some day and be a Man with Reason and Logic maybe even if your lucky some true wisdom.
they also questioned moses interest in leading israel. i'm not saying moses was perfect, certainly he wasn't, much like apostle paul. you have to agree that both took their churches into different directions. were they smooth journey's? no. moses ended up in the desert for 40 years and died there. the saints of apostle pauls era were persecuted, beheaded, fed to the lions. i imagine there were grublings. apostle paul was "bishop" per se when the church of rome and corith were living incorrect.
but today, we celebrate them. is sam valverde perfect? no. has he caused rumblings in the modern church while attepting to modernize it? yes. if anything, he has sparked and motivated people such as yourselves to action. perhaps this was god's plan to awaken the masses of the church. god only knows his plan.
enrique, i welcome your comments. i pray that the lord deliver you from the disgust in your heart for me. i have offended you, for this i plead your forgiveness. i percieve you are in an emotional state, thusly, easily angered.
may the lord bless you all today and may god bless the church.
John
So now you are equating Valverde with Moses ?
Get Real !
I happen to like Valverde and think he is a great speaker.
But Moses ? You need a reality check.
Next you will be comparing Sanchez with Abraham.
I know who you can make a fair comparison with.
Pachueco and Zacheus both Greedy and Short.
John 3:16,
Your comparisons between Moses and Valverde are extremely flawed.
Moses' blueprints for the future of God's people originated with God himself. Valverde's blueprints for the future of the assembly originated with TD Jakes, Rick Warren and the likes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with learning from mainstream leaders, however, there comes a point in which human inspiration must expire and Godly inspiration must prevail in order to receive a fruitful plan for spiritual success.
This is the difference between Moses and Valverde; Moses had something immutable and God given to pass down, while Valverde can only say, "look what Rick Warren said guys...". It is evident and even now, the effects of being a man-only inspired organization.
my brothers, the bible says there is nothing new under the sun. yes, i do make comparisons to moses and sam valverde. sam valverde has been bold to follow modern models of church government. i give him credit for having the faith to step out and stand in the face of much criticism. enrique, i wish i could see you face to face so i could stretch out my hand to you in peace. behind every comment you have directed to me has been a quasi hatred or at minimum a frown. i admit that sam could be wrong in his decision, but at least he stepped out and did something. what have you done for the body of christ to date? have you lead a church? have you accounted for souls, in the hundreds to the lord? have you shepherded gods children? sitting on the hillside and judging the shepherd while he is working is not a fruitful venture. join the shepherd and help him with his sheep. or arise and get your own flock so that others can criticize your acts. we will at that time see how you feel.
moses too was guilty of sin. for we all have sinned.
John,
How soon you forget your own words my brother.
If you think that my words sound angry check your own earlier posts.
You are also guilty of smart remarks and such.
Dont try and come off as holy and with a sweet gentle spirit.
Dont be fake.
Either bring it and deal with the backlash that comes when you step out and make bold comments or just keep it nice and sweet and then you wont get any negativity.
When Malverde burned his bible at the groung breaking did he think that was the burning bush?
If Malverde prayed manna from heaven as Moses did I think he would have all the FOT folks pick it up and sell it.
LOL.. no telling what Pacheco would do,
If Malverde turned his staff into
a snake I think it could be Pacheco crawling on the ground.
enrique, i admit my wrongness. i admit i was wrong in my previous comments. this is why i asked your forgiveness. i still extend my hand to you in peace. i don't want to be the source of bitterness in your heart. if you cannot love me, nor if i cannot love you, how can we both say we love god? i don't want to bring it, as you say. let us lay down our differences and move on with mutual respect for our opinions. if you cannot find it in your soul, being you filled with the holy ghost, to foregive me, then i cannot say or do anything else. may you find the love of jesus one day my brother. may that love fill us all and uplift the kingdom.
BREAKING NEWS!
Edward Pacheco is still a crook! Edward Pacheco hasn't even said SORRY to his Car Scam Victims! Many of them are Elderly now.
Edward Pacheco has taken money for the construction of a new church over the last 2 years and purchased 5 Luxury Houses and Cars.
Is it a Coincidence?
Edward Pacheco does business with Convicted Felons, Garduno.
Edward Pacheco is your Bishop Secretary.
Whats wrong with this picture?
Any church people from Corona know where the money went that was suppose to to be used to build your new church?
_____still in the bank
_____Pacheco spent it
_____geeez we don't know
Mark an X on the right box
(If Pacheco spent it, as a member I would go to the Distict Att and file charges. Time to stand up and bring this people to justice.)
Now thats something POSITIVE!!
NO?
Did you guys know that Pachueco is so arrogant that he makes people at his church wait in a single file line to greet him ?
You have to be a menso to wait in line to greet that bullfrog looking midget.
Enrique said...
Why dont you ask Marc Payaso where the money went isnt he a Pachueco cronie.
No wait he's busy out there giving conferences and marriage counseling since he has been married for soooooo long and has an spotless and blameless testimony.
Not to mention a wonderful personality. NOT !
I guess birds of a feather flock together
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