D-Day has arrived hermanos. In an effort to continue discussions I am bumping the Elections comments thread to this section. Please feel free to post your comments here. We will suspend comments in the previous sections.
As you were...
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 1271 Newer› Newest»Like I said, I'm out of here. Theres no hope for you bloggers. Lucious, thanks for your opinion grandpa. I'll be praying for all of you so you can get by your bitterness. See, I prayed and fasted for the general board to be victorious in this lawsuit. My prayers were answered and the general board has been seen by your secular humanistic courts to be JUSTIFIED. We have the victory.
Bye Bye!
So leave already Sam. I thought you said you were "out of here."?? Why waste your time with a bunch of bloggers "who have no hope" anyway? Your prayer and fasting had no effect on the outcome of the court hearing, and obviously it had no effect on your manner of conversation, mijito.
The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
RUN SAM RUN!!!
Avoid the fact that I know who you are, and WHAT you are. Praying and fasting PLEAAAASEEE! You are no more spiritual than my big fat toe!
Other bloggers can try to be the Christian example, and I'm OK with that. But me, I'm angry because of people like you who claim one thing and live another. I've seen you in church, and there IS NO DIFFERENCE between you and me! Your only difference is that you claim to be saved, but your actions and especially your poisonous words manifest otherwise - HIPOCRITE! I got you pegged!
CBG = Crying Blogger Gaylord
Sam,
Not even close liar! Keep guessing you HIPOCRITE! I thought you said you weren't from FTC liar! Boy I GOT YOU ON MY SCOPE! Moron!
Sammy, LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!!!
What a dork! You're a perfect example of a MUGLY - Figure it out! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL! run!
Sam:
I like your gracious departure, because you are giving the bloggers a victory in A minor issue since they got their bitter attitude handed to them by a court of law.
I find it funny that they accusE you of something they are doing.
I think the reason why lucius (aka lucifer) is mad is because after two thousand years he continues to be conquered. Am I going to get responses? probably but in the end they lost the court battle and they have no back up plan but to stay and complain. What a bunch of babies.
They will probably accuse of not edifying, but all that is happening is you and I have their attitude (without the bitterness) and hand it back to them and all of a sudden they are able to discern the lack of Christian Character. NEWS FLASH THIS WHOLE BLOG LACKS CHRISTIAN CHARACTER STARTING WITH THE ANTI GB PEOPLE.
ONGUARD
Hmm, let me see who's bitter ole Sam and Onguard because the Valverdes, Aguilars who just the the two of you defend just can't hold up to Bro. Torres. Look at all the people who bash them constantly and it appears they're all from California, you know, their own people who must know them well.
You don't see anyone from the great state of Texas bashing Bro. Torres, and for the same reason, exactly, because they do know him well. Ah, you silly boys, barking up the wrong tree.
CBG:
Accept the Judge's decision as the will of God. Quit your crying. Really when you post lol you should post lot (lots of tears) because you and you entourage have suffered a severe blow. It is ok for you to admit that you are hurting over the loss. Personally, I would not blame you if you left the assembly, but I do not think the Plantiffs will. They will have to be forced out. I have heard the most mainline churchs would allow you to be a pew warmer, but that is probably better than what you are doing now (not attending church and complaining anonomously).
Onguard
To Sam: I had a feeling you were from FOT (its actually FTC)... First you say things about other pastors but when it comes to one of the cruel pastors SAM VALVERDE you stand up to him and his Family..! And I hope you are giving them the information so they can realize what they have done to a lot of people...! One thing that Bro Sam Valverde can do is give a donation from all the money he has made on his preaching... FTC Multimedia makes a lot of money but where does it go? I know one thing for sure it does give A full time job to an ex manager of McDOnalds. But i know FTC Multimedia makes alot of money they just pass it down to TEXAS, AZ, and all the rest of the little churches..!
Come_again
I am not bashing Bishop Torres, but pointing out the facts. As far as comparing Torres to different men like Valverde and one is better than the other that would only be one's opinion. However, the fact is that Torres lost in a court of law. So all you bloggers from the Great State of Texas, swallow your pride and accept defeat.
As far as Torres, I have heard that he gave the previous bishop a hard time. He was not very obedient to his spiritual authority.
To state the obvious " You Lost" and seek a healing from God.
Onguard
Onguard
Talk about money. Has anyone out there who perhaps has a CPA license or is knowledgeable in the field taken a look at the National Treasury report? I know a little bit about accounting but not quite enough to make an educated statement. Anyhow, in looking through the Foreign Missions reports which are posted, I don't see anywhere that states how much money is alloted directly to missionaries the majority from "flor azul" seems to go to "administrative costs" which I take it is for our leaders to travel to the mission fields and pick up "ofrendas" and make sure they're tithing. I don't know maybe its under "hidden" costs but I would assume that we should proudly state somewhere "aid to missionaries". I see the tithes from missions real clearly, though.
Do we even help our missionaries or just take from them? Missionaries, can we hear from you, maybe?
Bishop Torres never gave the previous Bishop a hard time, in fact he pretty much stayed out of the way...
The Previous Bishop was not to experience and therefore Bishop Torres had to bite his tongue when mistakes where being made. But as far as not obeying authority, that's hogwash
Bishop Torres is the greatest man alive!
Pastor Sam Valverde doesnt hold a candle compared to Bishop Torres.
Not everyone is on Bishop Torres' side...
Some from his own family are against him.
He helped Pastor Arreola, Family members and many have turned their back on him.
You know why? It's what I call the Convention Fever. Anytime you deal with the GB or so called anointed preachers, people act like they dont know you, they forget you and what you did. A sudden case of amnesia.
In this case they forgot Bishop Torres and didnt back him up.
come_again
There you go complaining again, but you still give your tithe and offerings. If you are so bitter, why do you pay your tithes and offerings? Poor child you are desperately reaching. I have an idea maybe you can report the accounting errors to the federal government and the GB can be brought up on charges lol. By the way, you are bringing up an old topic in case you think you are original. Just drop the subject and have you Pastor pay their tithe of tithes.
Onguard
Why is raising an issue regarding money consider complaining?
We are talking about God's money. And when money is raised in the name of missions, to further the gospel yet much of it is spent on "administrative costs" we have to stop and wonder.
That doesnt mean you are bitter but you are stopping to take a self-examination.
These are real problems and we need to fix them.
Fabian:
Greatest man alive? lol talk about having a brown nose.
Are you a jovene or a Junior? It sure seems like that.
Anyway thanks for the laugh,
Onguard
Does anybody see what happening hear? Not only is there a division of political differences but a division in the body of Christ in regards to fellowship, consecration and the ultimate mission.
The church is sick. The people who can handle this, the Pastors, will not because they are afraid. And they should because the GB will take their churches away in the name of rebellion.
We have a good case of the body fighting the body.
Okay, so maybe I overexaggerated but He is still a great man with a noble cause. Bishop Torres has the integrity of the church in mind.
God is Justice
Where did you go? I knew I scared you off. I control you!
Snickers:
It is complaining when people continue to pay their tithes to the church. If you are discontent, then send your tithes to some other organization or join another church. Present you complaint to the GB and then make a decision as to what you are going to do with your money. After losing the court case, whatever is said on this blog pretty much means nothing. Since this blog lost it so called power, then anything said is complaining.
Sorry to be straightforward, but according to people on any national position pretty much said "it does not matter what people say on the blog" I think they view the bloggers as cowards.
Onguard
Anybody want to take a guess at what will happen to the plantiffs?
Will they leave? Will they stay?
Well, I agree that it is complaining if you do nothing outside of these blogs but to give your money to another organization would be a contradiction, to present your cause to the GB is lost one unless you are a GB member.
What we as members must do, is put pressure on the National Board in other ways. I think that although the blogs might be a waste of time because of Monday's decision, it definetly opened the eyes of the GB and what the people are thinking.
This must not be an end,but just the beginning. We must look for different ways to make them accountable.
I was going to go, but you see, you, CBG, you really don't know who I am. Both you and I know that you have no idea who I am even though you THINK you know who I am. Because if you did know who I am, you would have approached me and called me on it. But since you are all talk, and have no boldness, you will never approach me, IF you really knew who I am.
Just to show you, that you know NOTHING. And even if you had the manlyhood to approach me at church, I would simply deny it. That would make you look like a total FOOL in church. You would be humbled infront of all your little friends. All 3 of them.
Fabian:
The Plantiff are going to be force out of the assembly. As far as the GB is concerned, they caused a division. Many things were exposed, but there exist no remedies for them. In my opinion plantiffs and Defendants are part of the problem.
Onguard
I know who Sam is. The name Sam was picked so that we might not see the obvious: That Sam is a very close family member to Pastor Sam. Right Sammy!
Onguard
I agree. Well, I am not too sure about them leaving. Maybe some...Bishop Torres? He has loved the Assembly too much to leave unless he is outsed.
I think both sides have been wrong. What happened in 2006 was only a combination of past and present things.
The GB started this with fraud, but the plantiffs should have never taken it too court because how can a secular court judge on the church?
It's jut too bad, the biggest most prominent Hispanic Oneness Church in America is beginning to fall and crumble.
Snicker:
I would not be to confident about this being an eye opener to the GB. It seems to me that they are even more resolute about their processes. Especially, because the current GB people hold the positions. After all the plantiffs and consenters are ran off, then their really is not anyone stand up.
On another note, if they started another organization then their would be a fellowship for unhappy Pastors can go to. The only thing that concerns me is that the only form of church government the Plantffs know is the AA. So they would end up in the same mess.
As far as what the Church membership can do, there is not much. I have seen this type of stuff happen at a local level and the membership does not have anything to say.
Onguard
The Solution?
A real President who will stand up to the challenges. It might be political suicide but it would fix all our problems. To make His administration about fixing the Constitution, the structure, the way we spend our money. We would have to rebuild and it might take more than 1 term. That would be ideal for someone to stand up for the people and the church. Too much cheese though.
Snicker:
I have no doubt Bishop Torres loves the AA and his intentions were honorable, because prior to the elections he was a made man with the GB. He could of played ball with the GB and eventually made it to some type of national position, but he chose to do what he perceived to be right. As a result of it he lost a Bishop's position. Unfortunately, he did not foresee the loop holes in poorly written constitution. Since the constitution is poorly written it is advantageous to the current board members and for this reason the GB would not want to revamp the constitution.
As I see it, I do not see anyway of fixing the problems unless the President feels compelled to do so. However, why would he want to remove power of overriding the Pastoral vote from himself.
This is why I will not make accusations against the GB members, because the Pastors gave them that power.
Onguard
New "pastor" in bluffton s.c: from valverde's church. Here's what makes up "bluffton's church".
His ministers:
l.c: a "mini-ster" that launders money, has had previous encounters with irs. HAS NO FEAR OF GOD!!
m.n: makes no less than $18p.h and lives in a house for people who really are low income families. hhhhmmmmm..Does he fear God? i dont think so.
3 more families of this "church" also live in a low income house, both husband and wife work????
This "bluffton church" rebelled from PASTOR Andrades church when he started preaching about giving "cesar" what is of cesar..
Im tired of being quiet! if i have to i will mention your names!!
oh... and the judge told the plantiffs to appeal, its not over.
District attorneys ring a bell??
ju.4.all
It may not be over, but the chances of the decision being overturned is pretty slim.
Onguard
Onguard
I didn't say anything bad about Bro. Valverde, that would be really wrong because I don't really even know him. I do know Bro. Aguilar, and until recently knew only good things about him, but thanks to the good people of California we have heard many, many awful things about them and how they've been rivals, etc. We don't know if all that is said is true but when lots of people say the same things, well what are we to think.
For the reigns of devine justice have prevailed. The windows of heaven have opened up and the blessing pour from above with divine encounters of blessings abundant.
The blessed keepers of the storehouse have been heard and their prayers and supplications and fastings have been answered. Therefore the blessings will follow the great victory given from above and the keepers of the storehouse shall thus and forever be blessed.
Seek you this day heavenly blessings. Side not with the doers of divisions and evil. Their path of divisions lead to distruction and failure. Put forth thy seeds into the storehosue and prove that your seeds will bare fruit. Depression and recession shall not come to those that are faithful. This day I have spoken this word unto the people of Israel. Victory is the general boards. Amen
onguard.
The lord is with the plantiffs, thats what makes all the diffrence.
Ju.4.all
Really, then why did they lose the first time. The lord is also with the Pastors who voted to implement the qualifying committee and CID document. I know many people feel strong about this, but the Pastor's relinquished control to the President, Like of not that is how it is and for this to change it will take many years to change because of the great opposition. I believe Abel Torres is a man of God and if he was to go independent he would thrive. The AA does not save you or condemns you, but bickering about the flaws and fighting destroys churchs and organizations.
Onguard
Onguard
I'm not bitter neither am I complaining, I'm simply bringing up an issue. And for your information when there is an issue that needs to be resolved it should be kept on the table until it is. If the "flor azul" money is being used for what it was intended to be used for then it should be so stated in our financial statements instead of "administrative costs" such as for our leaders to be jetsetting to the missionary fields.
onguard:
the judge mentioned that the constitution had many flaws and was in favor with the plantiffs on all the thing they presented but i honestly dont think that he wanted to make that dasicion in their favor because he even told them to appeal. now 3 judges will take the case. well see in no more than 3 months. Amazing things will happend.
Come_again
Sorry for the bitter comment. I know you are frustrated with the current system, but I do not foresee anyway of the AA status quo changing. We are only a blog and this blog does not change policy, especially being anonymous. The only way this can ever be on a table that member is for us to be part some committee that can change things. Now, after the loss, this blog has probably lost influence.
Onguard
onguard: the cid document is not official, it wasnt precessed correctly
ju.4.all
My understanding of an appeal is that another jugdge looks at the case. No new evidence can be added. Whether the judge tells him to do that or not it is still an option. I see the next judge im taking the same path because he has to review the Poorly designedn constitution. The Pastor's voted for CID and QC in which the President could be apart of. It the pastors fault for not understanding the importance of Checks and Balances.
The only option I see for Pastors is to grin and bear it or leave. If they oppose they are ousted. In the end, they made the choice.
Bro. Sanchez is not at fault, because I think any person would do the same. That is why people do not like monarchs. Too much power in the hands of a few is not goodl
Onguard
The CID document is in the constitution. The fact that the CID document is not official is not a complaint on any legal documents. That is not an issue before the judge.
og
On guard you have your information wrong regarding Pastor Abel Torres giving the previous Bishop Quintanilla a hard time. It's the other way around he kept Bishop Q in line from abusing the power over the pastors and draining all the funds from the district and leaving them in the hole but of course Bishop Q had learned from the best of the best! Quess??? Thank you, Honarary Bishop Torres for looking out for us!
Hmm well maybe the Dorcas who are in charge of "flor azul" should request a full report! Yeah right, if Pastors don't have a voice, our Dorcas don't stand a chance. What a sad state of affairs. Lord help us.
But again, how will change ever come about if people like Bro. Torres don't stand up against all odds and demand to be heard? Maybe at the next elections?
http://www.apostolicassembly.info/AA%20Pastoral%20Summary%20Letter.doc
ONGARD!
I'm back! Your quote, "NEWS FLASH THIS WHOLE BLOG LACKS CHRISTIAN CHARACTER STARTING WITH THE ANTI GB PEOPLE." If this blog lacks "CHRISTIAN CHARACTER" what are YOU doing in here?
You're just as moronic as Sam is! I wouldn't be surprised if you hang out together, or are part of the same click of morons at FTC.
Bitter? of course I'm bitter! And I blame so call Christians like you. The only difference between me and you is that I don't play the part - HIPOCRITE!
To all,
I think Sam, Ongard, and John 3:16 all come from the same comedy team at FTC. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the same person! Anyway, I already have one pegged out, I think I'll check the other two morons!
CBG, you are a major motard! You think you know what being a Christian is, but you really don't know. Just like you think you know me but you really don't know. But see, you will never know me, because like the Texans in this blogg, you know NOTHING.
I bet you have a life size poster of Abel Torres in your bedroom and worship it every night. I bet those Texans from Texas have a statute of Abel Torres(Like a Buddhah) and leave him offerings and oranges everyday.
You think you know, but you know that I know that we all know that you really don't know.
From what I hear, Abel Torres is has a new knick name, Client #9, from Texas.
What do you get when you breed a Texan with a Retard?
A Texard!
I met Bro. Torres once at our annual convention. We didn't search him out but he came to us and engaged us in conversation. We are from Idaho and I don't believe he knows very many pastors from that region, but I myself was very impressed that he took time to stop and say hello to us. Most of us are forgetting what the scriptures say and judge one another as if we are the ones giving out salvation. Brothers beware lest we ourselves become a casualty of Satan and his devices. We are to show ourselves approved, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the suberting of the hearers.
I DONT WORSHIP MAN I WORSHIP GOD
the relationship that i have with God is unique! no men or orginization will tell me where to put my money at! AA just use it to buy exlusive things...! Timothy is not a man of God and should not be in the ministry especially with that girlfriend he has...!
Sam,
Dumb ...ss! I could care less about A. Torres, I don't even know the man! All I know is that I'm not a Christian and supposedly YOU ARE! Yet I can get you to babbler like a moron any time I want! People like you give Christianity an ugly name.
If some day I decide to get baptized, I know what I don't want to become - SOMEONE LIKE YOU! Keep saying I don't know you. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL!!! NO ONE in this blog is even paying attention to such a moron except me! And that's because I got you pegged. Go on and kiss the behinds of your peeps, some day they to will drop you. Dumb ....ss!
Judge 3/10/2008
Dismissal without prejudice. Term meaning dismissal without prejudice to the right of the complainant to sue again on the same cause of action.
Sam,
Your problem is you have been drinking to much of Jason Aguilar's Tunga, and that is not helping your Wanga! Why don't you ask your Doctor to precribe you some Viagra. Then find you a woman and you won't suck up to men so much. HA! HA! You might try J. Aguilar she is always open for something different! LOL! LOL!
LA DIST.
FYI
In response to a blog made by snickers earlier today,I hear that the certain family member of Pastor Torres is a very good friend to Pastor Arreola.
Overall, I hear that Pastor Torres has alot of support from his family.
AND SAM-
Texans know more than you know, and have more knowledge than you will ever attain. No Texan has a Buddha statue nor do Texans worship Pastor Torres.
Seems like you want to be your own Buddha. You're constantly seeking your own enlightenment and truth! ONLY GOD SAVES not your man-made ideas.
Sam,
I am baffled at your ignorant and petty remarks. Your rebuttals are quite hallow, and it seems as though you glory in your own self-enlighted wisdom. Didn't you say you were leaving already? You and your co-blasphemer, ONGUARD, have no idea what true Apostolic ministry is, and you only bring a bad taste to those who are truly endeavoring to reach the lost. You're like swine vomit that should have been rebuked out of the AA and ran down a cliff like the legion Christ rebuked. You guys are so retarded, it makes me laugh.
Go find another blog to haunt with your juvenile chains of remarks, you wanna-be Marleys.
Thought for the day: "I will cast them down, and smush them with Mine thumb of my right hand until they are crushed beneath the layers of Sodom and Gomorrah."
Sam:
I had hope for you to literally see with your own eyes as you have read on the REAL corruption that has been committed by the GB but you are so blinded by your own foul stench! You have gone far enough on degrading your own race by calling them racial slurs or names. Don't play Politics with me and tell me that is what or whomever said was the legal term for illegal immigrants. Its just racial as it would be for a black person to call his own a "N" word. You make me sick just like the rest of us think YOU ARE A SORRY-LOW CLASS PIECE OF FILTH!!! Then you go off and said something as stupid as having a "Life-size poster" of our respected Pastor Bro.Abel Torres and make him an idol. If you only knew how humble and compassionate he is towards his people at NOT only his church,but to everyone in society. I have read several VERY intelligent remarks towards you to help you understand everything and you don't want to understand because you are so blinded. Sam, there are LOT of people who would LOVE TO KICK YOUR UGLY BUTT LITERALLY IF WE KNEW WHO YOU WERE BECAUSE OF YOUR IMMATURITY AND COWARDNESS!! For the people out in other states that are FOR Bro.Torres and THE MAJORITY OF THE PASTORS in the AA, lets stay focused and stay on track with "THE AWAKENING" by the endtimes and the Great Harvest in the Greatest revival for SOULS in these times. MARK MY WORDS,"2008-2009 will be the culmination of the BIGGEST-PROPHETIC EVENTS in 2000 years since Christ was on earth". There is no time to waste and sit back and worry too much about the ASSEMBLY. Whatever you do, its time for the biggest Harvest of Souls for Our Saviour, The Almighty Jesus Christ!!
Aww, whats the matter? Did I make you guys cry? Aww, I'll go get about a dozen paciphiers for you people. Just be so kind to leave me your addresses so I can mail them to you.
Oh, I have an idea, I'll mail them to your beloved Buddah himself, your apostolic idol, your apostolic pope, Abel Torres. That way he can feed you your chupones.
You people are in defeat and it shows. This defeat in your secular humanistic courts has really stirred you to lowself esteems.
You guys say you are real apostolics, but you never could be one of us. You never could. Always thinking your better than your pastors. Always thinking your better than the general board. Always 2nd guessing. Always having your opinions on how better it could be if YOU were in charge.
Keep on dreaming. You'll never be like us. You'll always be bench warming luke warms being all bitter and all.
Let's just leave ole Sam alone, he's getting crazier and crazier by the minute. Poor Guy! Those guys at headquarters probably don't even know he exists.
sam:
I put you in GOD"S HANDS. I leave you in peace...
TO ALL BLOGGERS:
It's best that you guys ignore Sam, and not even dignify his posts with your precious time; you'd be giving him exactly what he wants: strife and discord amongst us all. Don't be surprised if he responds to my comments, as I fully expect him to. Sammy boy, the sun is setting on your petty, juvenile posts, mijito...take the hint.
Quote of the day: "What fellowship hath light with darkness?"
Oh, and by the way, I'm so glad many of us here are not like you. That is one thing you are 100% correct on: we'll never be like you and your beloved general board. Praise God for giving you revelation.
Has anyone seen the new website of the apostolic assembly? Apostolicassembly.org, specifically all the friendship groups pictures?
since when did we look so diverse. I mean there is nothing wrong with who we are. We are hispanic people. I think this leadership is embarrassed of its people
Victory is ours victory is ours victory today is ours!!!!!
FABIANA!!
Were you looking for me girl???
God is Justice
You, and your church and your whole district along with the youth are losers!!!
Onguard:
You said previously that the people at national don't care what the anonymous people on the blog say and they call us "cowards".
So what does that make Bro. Torres, he's not anonymous. I'm sure they secretly envy him, because of the overwhelming support he has received. Don't they wish they were loved and supported the way he is. No they get raked over the coals by their very own. Bro. Torres is at a higher level than they ever can hope to be, even with their positions. God put him there and the people approve it.
http://pastorabelvtorres.blogspot.com/
move your fight to this blog
To all the aforementioned people above. Keep your eyes and ears open because there is something in the works. Something that favors the plaintiffs.
Ok, since there's rampant misinformation here, allow me to clarify some things.
First of all, what occurred on 03/10 was a motion hearing brought by the Plaintiffs. For all intensive purposes, the plaintiff's requested immediate relief from the court in the form of an injuction to set aside the election. The judge denied the motion, but this doesn't mean that the case is over.
The defendants haven't even answered the complaint yet. That is the next step, and they have 30 days to do so.
The CMC is a procedular hearing, where the judge basically gives counsel the timeline of the case, ie. discovery cut-off dates, jury fees paid, Trial Readiness Conference date and, finally, the trial date. It's not what some of you here are claiming it is. The judge doesn't give out tips on how one side should prepare. That's patently false.
By the time this sucker goes to trial (if it ever goes that far), we'll already be having our next elections. I'd bet that the defense, emboldened by the judge's denial of the plaintiff's motion, will probably file a motion for summary judgment. In a MSJ, the moving party is asking the judge to dismiss the case. Basically, a MSJ is a "mini-trial" on paper. If the defense goes this route, both parties will file responsive pleadings and the judge will rule either way. If the defense wins, case over. If the plaintiffs win, off to trial we go.
The whole purpose of this lawsuit was to set aside the election, and the judge already ruled against that, so I really don't know what the plaintiffs' strategy in keeping the case alive. At the end of the day, even if the plaintiffs somehow manage to win, it will probably be moot, since the new election cycle will probably be upon us.
The real challenge lies on re-drafting part, if not all, of our constitution.
Oh, and a party to a lawsuit CANNOT appeal when they lose a motion hearing. Some of you here are talking about a 3-judge panel..what? the defendants haven't even answered the complaint, and yet some of you already have this thing going to the Supreme Court. ha ha
Thanks for all the information apoww08. I should have been more clear. Something is in the works but it will be good for the plaintiffs. It is a case entirely seperate from this present one. Thanks for all the information. Maybe had I clarified you would not have had to waste all that time to explain something to me. However I do thank you.
Secondly who said anything about the supreme court.
apoww08 you are totally wrong.The appeal is already made.
In the end it may be "moot" as you say if this does in fact drag on until the next election, however, we will have given the present GB a hell of a ride during their term in office, not to mention all the dirty laundry the good people of California have hung for all to see and strengthen the cause. No, they haven't won, not by a very long shot and you can take that to the "bank". The people have spoken and they don't want crooks in office. We won't be leaking out any more information like you have, Thanks Bro.
The appeal will not be victorious. The plaintiffs have lost three times already. The first time was when they all voted for the CID. The second time was when they Lost the election. The Third time was when they lost the court case.
Do you see a pattern here? The plaintiffs are waisting time and money. Moreover, they are wasting the morale and morals of the church.
You've been spanked three times. I find it amusing that the plaintiffs and their loser supporters are crying for more.
The plaintiffs are becoming the Miami Dolfins of the church world, repeat LOSERS.
PS CBG, see you on sunday. I'll be praying for you, you little vieja. And too all you Texana bloggers, you lost at the Alamo and now you're Buddah Torres will lose for a 4th time!
Sam:
would you stop with this whole buddah thing! the only person who worships anyone is you! you've said it yourself! nobody here or anywhere worships pastor torres! we worship God because thats what he has showed us to do...clearly you could learn something from him!
FYI!
From a very reliable source I have heard that five prominent families with deep roots in the AA met on Wed. in LA. Purpose of meeting was to look into splitting from the AA and forming a mega church in LA. One of those families were present at Galarza's church last Sunday. Seems like people are pretty much fed up with the theatrics of this GB. Stay tuned more to come!
LA DIST.
Sorry come again I do not know what you are talking about. I believe we are talking about very different situations. So in essence I have not leaked about your stuff. You just did. I have not heard of anything from anywhere else other than my local church. I have not heard about anything nationwide.
Sorry Apostolic Insider that comment was meant for Apoww08, I think that's where the confusion is, my mistake, no problem here.
trophyman do you know who the pastor is going to be of this mega church?
Five major families with deep Apostolic Roots? Sounds like a Mafia meeting. Do the members have any voice? Likely not.
Hello, I'm baaaaccck!!!
Sammy, I got you on the run, every post you have to mention me cause I got you worried! Your last post, "CBG, see you on sunday. I'll be praying for you, you little vieja..." LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL :-] Who sounds like a vieja? YOU DO MORON!
Oh and I WILL SEE YOU IN CHURCH kissing the behind of your peeps Timo Valverde and family. Keep looking over your shoulder Cause I'm watching you!
And by the way, I HAVEN'T EVEN BEGAN TO POST WHAT YOU DO AWAY FROM CHURCH, and what kind of reputation you have. Let's just put it this way - one of your favorites songs is "Macho Man" by the Village people! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL, Dumb ...ss!!!
Sam,
How was the breakfast this morning? :-}
guys.. seriously.. lol
leave this Sam guy alone.. lol
i don;t really see why any1 even responds to the guy...
i do give him props for riling you guys up at times.. lol
theu buddah comment was hillarios, ORANGES!!!! hahaha
i was in southeast asia about a year ago.. so.. i found that quite funny, and it brought back some good memories...
but back to the issues at hand,
let's keep the dialougue civil, and refrain from petty personal confronations...
1st Issue at hand...
what ever happened to Pastor Soloman... no one ever updated...
2nd...
what's the latest of bro willie mendoza in houston, did the GB every try again?
3rd, is pastor saul avila still in the assembly? (just asking, I have not seen him in quite some time, and I hope regardless of the answer) he is doing well.
4th.. leave sammy boy alone.. LOL
sorry, had to throw that one in again.. lol
To Van,
From the information that I have these are members not pastors that are initiating this move. Seems like people are sick and tired of what goes on in the AA right here in out own backyard. I personally know of two families and I know that they could fund this poject without any problem whatsoever. All I can say is that they would have my support. This is what every member in the AA needs to be doing(YA BASTA!).
LA DIST.
Trophyman:
Fund the project? Ever hear of Legalzoom.com? Thats all you need my brutha. The only thing the AA controls are the church buildings and their accounts.
You local pastors have control of your local congregations.
The major issue is that certain individuals and families in the AA seem to think their are entitled and are dependent on the entitlement given by their fathers. IE the Aguilars, Jimenez, Rodriguez, Pachecos, the Valverde's, Duarte's,the Lopez', Sanchez, even your Torres, Tafoyas of the world, etc...
The membership has had little or no say in our church government. No voice, no reason to stay. All we are asked is to give, give, give $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
What do we do as a church? In my opinion, church growth isn't motivated by saving souls, its motivated so we can have more members so as to have larger offerings. This idea of pastors coming together to form a mega church will fail unless each pastor is given a piece of the pie. Each would have to get his cut.
Church has become a good business. Unfortunately, we have prostituted our biblical standing for the hopes of money.
What poor do we assist? What seniors do we help? What widows do we help? What family in need do we assist? Charity is nearly non-existant in the AA.
We, as an organization don't know the real meanings of charity.
I repeat a previous post because of your comment on "entitlement of their fathers". Read on:
Touching on a subject that was brought up a short while back regarding the practice of church pastorships turned over to sons or family members. My intake on this is that why shouldn’t it be so, perhaps not in all cases but in some?
I mean who knows better than family what the original pioneers of that church suffered and how hard they worked to raise the church, their families - that‘s who. Who knows better and firsthand how hard the pastor worked, the tears shed, the suffering that it took to raise God’s churches, if not the family. Granted there are also many church members who worked alongside their pastor but they don’t always know the whole of it. Pastor’s (good dedicated ones) and their families go through a lot that some people don’t appreciate or even know of. I was very close to a pastor’s family in my youth. I am talking about the family of Bro. A. Torres. Bro. A. Torres was molded not only by his parents in the home, but by the morals and love of God’s church they instilled in him. When we played as children at their home, we played church, that’s what they knew. I personally saw how their parents did the best they could to be an example, sometimes sacrificing their children to show examples to the rest. I recall that as a boy Bro. A. Torres would be asked by his father during a service to step up to the altar and pray if he saw that he was talking or being disruptive with his friends during church, he didn’t tell the friends, just his son. He was teaching his son to set an example.
In the case of Bro. A. Torres he didn’t just step in and take the church over, he had already earned that right long before. As a youth he was president of the district MOP for many years, he put together the first Youth Camp in our area, took over a church in the small town of Andrews driving 45 miles for services in a vehicle that sometimes didn‘t quite make it, started three other missions, became elder, then bishop, and pastored a church in El Paso, all this before he finally returned to Midland upon his fathers retirement as pastor to be near his elderly parents and to continue the work that he helped his father start, to continue a legacy in God’s church. And continue working he did by immediately building a much bigger church and bringing many ideas and projects that have increased the growth in that church tremendously. God bless Bro. Abel Torres and his family for all their sacrifices.
Come Again: It nepotism.
I have have an idea. Upload Sam Valverde's preachings on Limewire. They'll be for free.
In this case, it has ALL the merits. So, no.
The same Sam Valverde they talk so bad about? Why would I want to hear his sermons? Not even for free.
I agree with you Van, I mostly do until you use foul language, I guess your emotions get the best of you.
Regarding the prominent families in LA district who want to do a division or another organization; those folks cannot be Pastors, only members because of the way the pastors have been trained and the bad habits they have developed from their predecessors.
The so-called ‘prominent families’ evidently must not know Apostolic history. From the 42 churches in the LA District, as opposed to the East LA District, there is a large difference in the cultural makeup of the membership.
If I’m not mistaken, a great majority of the members of the churches around here in L.A. are now mostly Central Americans who do not have deep roots in the Apostolic Church. With the exception of about 4 Pastors, the majority of them are first time immigrants from Central America and Mexico. I would guess there are very few Mexican Americans including Pastors.
I cannot think of any ‘prominent families’ that are part of this District.
The sad thing about it is that if a group of so called ‘prominent families’ got together and started another organization/corporation, they would have to incorporate in the State of CA, elect a board, and present a Constitution to the State.
This new organization would have to start from scratch, needing about 100 years time to get where the Assembly is in assets and property today.
The new organization would not have any church property, any headquarter buildings, any lucrative funds flowing from the Dorcas, Flor Azul, Varones, Messengers of Peace, Missionary organization.
In 1906, the forefathers of the Assembly got baptized and started getting together during the Azusa Street Revival in L.A. It was in 1916, according to the book, ‘Nuestra Historia,” that under the supervision of Francisco Llorente, they began to congregate as a legitimate organization.
The story continues up to this time. It took years to get here. It cost tears and struggles and even lives to get to this point.
Starting over would not be the best solution, we must get rid of the bad apples,
Let me give you the names of those who tried to form an organization outside of Nava.
1.Pablo Garcia Chavez from Arizona
2.Jose L. Martinez from California
3.Cirilo Leyva from New Mexico
4.Efrain Valverde from California
The great majority of the people who went with them, returned to the Assembly, including Efrain Valverde, Jr., whose father left with about 50 Pastors which included the Pachecos who are related to them.
These included 'so called' prominent families, 'so called educated and well informed people who knew what the problems were in the Assembly, but they eventually returned.
Who forced them to return? The members. They wanted to be a part of the growth of the Assembly.
They want to be included in the more frequent Conventions, in the retreats, in the banquets, in all the social events that bring so many from all over.
It is about seeing old friends and families, it is about finding Juanito a suitable wife among the beautiful young Apostolic girls, it is about friendships that are rekindled at each of these events.
Friends... you cannot fight this. The hundred years it took to get here will continue to have a hold on those who think they can walk away. Do you want to see all your friends before the final meeting place in heaven? Go to an Apostolic funeral.
The most recent division was done by Eddie Lopez, son in law of Daniel Sanchez. He took his Anaheim congregation to the Vineyard because they were fed up with the Assembly, including Sanchez, who begged him not to leave.
The congregation followed Eddie and the next Sunday, the women wore pants to church, jewelry, and NO veils. However, little by little, they all filtered back into the bondage of the Assembly, leaving Eddie Lopez alone.
What really needs to happen--the Pastors need to vote out all the current Board and not allow anyone who has served before to be on the Board again, including Baldemar, Dan Salomon, Luciano Montes and Arrellano.
This all boils down to the Pastors. I realized that most Pastors don't care if Mickey Mouse is President as long as they can keep their own little kingdom.
They have to get rid of the CID and the QC and....
THEY HAVE TO DO THEIR HOMEWORK.
THEY NEED TO BE INFORMED AS TO WHAT THEY ARE VOTING FOR and
THEY NEED TO VOTE WITH A RENEWED MIND....
not be in a hurry to vote so they can go to lunch.
The answer is not in trying to restructure the Organization.
Sometimes the cancer has spread too far to have any remedy.
Nor is the answer in starting another Organization.
Give it a few years and it would become just another replica of The Assembly.With all the same problems and nepotism.
I know of a few Pastors that have gone independant from The Assembly and are doing well.
And by doing well I dont mean it in the Apostolic Assembly definition. Which means money and power.
But rather REALLY doing well as in spiritually healthy, grounded and firm churches.
Training members to have a heart for ministry and service and really making a difference.
I think the best you can do is make a difference in the lives of those within your circle of influence.
Forget about Religious Organizations and Assemblies and focus on the work of The Lord.
Religious Organizations accomplish very little.
Like the Pharisees and Saduccess they create arrogance, greed and pride, they just have meetings counsels and conferences and accomplish very little.
All the while the souls are still lost, the poor are hungry and in need of shelter, the widows and orphans are in need of comfort.
But we must attend " The Conference or Convention " Or should I just the Fashion Show Runway
midzpucCome_again
When is Bro. Torres going to be ousted as a pastor? Do you know if he going UPC? Anyway you all lose.
Call me what you want, but in respect to the lawsuit you lose. If Abel is sent of God, then the lord will honor his work when he goes independent or with the Mexican Assembly.
Onguard
Onguard
Just cool your heels buddy. All things will be done in good time. Sit back, wait and wonder.
Come_again
My heels are cool, but Abel Torres needs to have a back up plan if they lose the appeal. I hope he does or he is not very smart.
Onguard
ApostolicAnalyst:
Foul language? Are you serious? Well, at least the point was absorbed. I may use some choice words but I don't recall using the A word, F word, S word, B word on this blog.
I may use words like prostitue, bastardize, and the like but not the ones mentioned above. Do my emotions get the best of me, over course when something is dear to my heart and core convictions.
Wouldn't you get emotional if someone were to say, go up to your wife and smack her on her toosh? I would venture to say, if you really loved her, your emotions would be through the roof.
I have some fouls words to add to this topic:
Valverde
Pacheco
Sanchez
CID
Maffey
Prado
Del Campo
Tafoya
Those are now modern curse words.
The purpose to my suggestion to upload Valverde's preachings on Limewire is so that the preachings will be for FREE. I bet old Valverde would have a fit because he couldnt collect his $$$$$$$ on CD Sales.
Onguard
He is VERY, VERY SMART.
Nah, I wouldn't get Valverde's sermons even if I can download them for free. I can't believe there's people actually buying his stuff.
He needs an education from a real seminary. Not an education from TD-U (TD Jakes University). I can't believe people actually feed off of his stuff on a weekly basis.
TD-U?
More like La Puente Bible School. Its located in an industrial area in the city of La Puente, its literally next to a llantera.
Valverde likes to LIE to his congregation that he was on the path to become a medical doctor but that God called him to ministry, thus he gave up his studies to seek the lord's path.
Reality Check.
Valverde dropped out of a Junior College in San Diego, maybe took a couple of classes at UCSD.
Upon dropping out of college, he went on to sell fruits and vegetables door to door, most notably oranges.
His father in law then rescued him to give him a job at the Christian Academy, where all is required is a GED to become a teacher.
If I am wrong, someone please feel free to correct me.
Come_again
How smart is he? He could not outsmart the GB from removing him as Bishop. I hope you are right but the only options I see for him is Pastoral removal.
OG
Van,
He personally told me that he was going to San Diego State to become a doctor - then God called him to the ministry.
He told me this in the late 90's. I have since then come to find out this was all a lie, and among other untruths that he has told me and told to others.
Frijol:
San Diego State University(SDSU), home of the Aztecs, doesn't even have a medical school!
Sure, you can get you BA, BS in biology, but thats it.
The homie can't even tell a decent lie.
Pastor Sam Mascareno is a grad from SDSU both a BA and Masters. Now thsts credability. Lots of Apostolics have graduated from University. But sadly, not many of them, us, are maintaining their membership in the AA.
Why become a doctor? There's more $$ in being a Pastor/GB member/Plagiarist
Sam HAS his MASTERS in BS!!!
Why become a doctor? There's more $$ in being a Pastor/GB member/Plagiarist
Valverde HAS his MASTERS in BS!!!
That's the problem with these leaders. You have to take everything with a grain of salt, they exaggerate extensively. There is no integrity at all.
I've been a round the block quite a few times in the AA. I usually see the lack of integrity in their sermons. They'll exaggerate the number of people who received the HG, or the number of people in attendance, or how much they gave, just to give off a false sense of spiritual success. I've heard these same men tell stories behind the pulpit and make themselves to be the hero of the story, when in fact I was there to witness they were far from having anything to do with the situation they were referring to. I've had my share of wanting to hang a few preachers including GB members because of the untruths I've heard them tell - and the crowd, well they eat it all up, scream shout then go fornicate at the Marriott.
It's sad.
SHUT UP!
Onguard,
The existing backup plan (plan b)was to file an appeal. The second back up plan (plan c) after the appeal is to refile an appeal.
There was no plan B. In the game of strategy your plan B better be stronger than plan A. They believed their own hype and in the process caused wound that will leave scar for generations and a tarnished name.
ApostolicAnalyst,
I agree with your assertions however I would like to add the following. I don't think it would take another 100 years to develop and organization such as the AA. Many other religious organizations that are relatively new on the scene have surpassed the outreach of the AA in a shorter amount of time.
I am not encouraging a split but if well organized one could be effectively orchestrated.
Do I think any of the plaintiffs are of this caliber? NO!
Would I go with any of the plaintiffs? NO!
Will a split take place? Yes, much like those you described.
Regarding apparel: I don't know of one person who was not saved nor is going to hell because they have wore pants, jewelry or did not wear a veil. It is not biblical. It is misunderstood because the lack of education, only tradition but this is were the AA chooses to plant their flag. Which leads to my next point.
During the reformation period when Martin Luther led the beginning of the Protestant movement, the Catholic church realized it needed to readdress its situation and began what is now called the Catholic Reformation. This is not the same as THE Reformation period, it was the churches counter to the new evangelical movement and an address of its own faults and shortcomings. One of the items they felt was necessary to address was the education of their priest and bishops. They felt the lack of edcuation by their priests and bishops was one of the underlying factor in the churches corruption.
There are stiking similarities to the AA.
The AA can't be fixed overnight but it can in 4 years. Here is how.
1. The main push should be for Pastors to complete 4 years of college (Bachelors Degree).
How?
Flor Azul, Christian Education
Department and the local church. Programs, grants and scholarships can be created to fund the re-edcuation of our pastors and an institution of their choosing.
Who?
Pastor's under the 55 are obligated to pursue an education path. For pastors without a high school diploma, or speak english are required to attend ESL classes. Pastors over 55 are required to at least a Associates degree but still must speak english and required to pass a standardized test on church administration.
Criteria for ministerial license should be at least an Associates degree.
Existing pastors who cannot or do not want to meet these requirements will be required to sponser a co-pastor (or be under the direct supervision of the district bishop) who does meet these requirements.
Where?
A 4 year seminary prefered, but any 4 year accredited institution will be accepted; online, on campus, correspondence...whatever it takes. Seminaries will give healthy enrollment packages for this push.
With a four year implementation plan this will push pastors to prepare, study and obtain what are still minimal requirements to function in an administrative position.
(2 Tim 2:15 - Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth).
Cost?
The Assembly will provide $10,000/year per pastor. The pastor will be obligated to cover the balance
This equates to a $24,000,000 investment over 4 years.
The breakdown:
$10,000/yr x 4 years x 600 pastors = $24,000,000 or
$6,000,000 per year or
$184/member ($150,000 members) or
$46/member per year
The balance of the cost of the education will be carried by the pastor and local church.
Is it worth it? Of Course but it's not easy.
This would be the best one time investment the organization could possibly do.
Four years are going to come and go anyway. Or else we just keep talking about this election and the ill's of the AA for the next four years.
How much would it cost of if we didn't educate our pastors. Well...just look at where we are now.
This would cause a major shift in the next generation that have the opportunity grow under the mentorship of a pastor with the necessary education and skill set. By nature this will push all future generations into colleges and higher learning institutions.
What could we become by doing this?
I'll even put my money where my mouth is and pay for my pastors share of his education for four years...hmmm...but he already has a 4 year degree...so I'll sponser a pastor who cannot afford to pay his share.
Apostolic_Voice,
Regarding your last post. It makes PERFECT sense, however, the AA rejects anything that makes sense. Why? Because we are to be "different", "apart", "holy", "set aside". We cannot conduct business as others do. Even if means repeating mistakes, re-eventing the wheel, if the first wheel doesn't work, invent another one, just don't change the look, the method or the people. This will make us look like idiots, but at least the world will see that we are "different". And being "different" is the trademark of the AA.
Apostolic Voice
Question. Do you still stand by the letter you wrote to Pres. Sanchez regarding Bro. A. Torres? It appears that your views have changed since the court hearing. Are you moving with the tide?
My letter still stands with Bro. Torres. He should have been removed as Bishop.
Correction:
He should NOT have been removed as Bishop.
AV
Apostle Paul didn't go to no bible seminary. When did any of the apostles go to seminary? The apostolic assembly has a awesome bible education program with vanguard university. You bloggers need to stop hating on the church. We have all that education. You bloggers just don't like it. $24 million dollars? No way, you just need to invest a little bit into your christian education department that we already have in the church.
Right Sam! $24M would cut into the GB's fringe benefits.
Paul was not educated, but Saul was (Acts 22:3)
It is obvious that you failed out of the La Puente Bible College.
The GB and you must rely on God’s intervention as Balaam did. Are you the one God will use to advise the HGB? (Numbers 22:28)
Oh sure, lets keep sending more money in so that it can be tagged for "administrative costs". Our leaders will love that, they don't care what we send it in for, they'll use it as they please.
Apostolic voice. I understand what you were trying to convey to us. Rest assured that there is a plan b and that it is not the appeal. I also asked the same questions and pondered upon what would happen next. This is all the information I can divulge at the moment. Find confidence in knowing that something is definitely in the works.
Sam,
You have proven yourself to be a menso. Paul was a WELL educated man - which is probably why God elected him to write more than half of the New Testament.
If the AA constitution is so important, the GB should pattern after God and find educated men and women to draft it.
Unfortunately, the men who wrote and will ammend the CON-stitution write with "self" in mind.
Ahh whatever. Ok, I'll give you apostle paul. but what about the 11 others? what about john the baptist? the churches educational system is fine. you just need to stop lusting at the ones by those trinotarians who preach nothing but trinity and secular humanism.
WOW Sam, you actually wrote complete sentences other than "SHUT UP." Your La Puente Bible education is paying off!
To all bloggers, let me tell you what I saw at FTC church this weekend. I saw Sam following Timo and the Valverde's like a little puppy. Correction like a HOUND DOG. You should have seen it, it was hilarious. Especially because they're telling every body they won!
What a LOOSER, if the Valverde's did not pay attention to him, he wouldn't have anybody to kiss up to. Trully, besides kissing the ground the walk on he kisses something else.
And by the way Sam, the teaching on secular humanism is old, from the 80's. And you're daddy Valverde doesn't even teach that anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't even know what secular humanism is. Goi back to your daddy Valverde, and your boy friend Timo. I haven't even began to tell what you do in church! Dumb ...ss!!!
CBG you do not know what you are talkig about. You sit behind you retarded Imac and post nonsence. Try looking up google/bible.com You don't even know who I am, you think you do but you really don't and you know and I know that the truth. You come on line and slander good men of God like Tim, Sal, Pastor, their family and anyone else who no not like you.
Like go back to your favorite website jessicasimpson.com
Leave the discussions on bible matter to me and these hater bloggers.
CBG,
Following so close, is Sam sniffing around for something? Next he’s going to say their flatulence doesn’t stink!
On the contrary Sam, the 11 other apostles were very well educated. Their Master possesses ALL knowledge. They learned from the BEST.
It’s when your heroes go after the $$$$$ that they show they failed to follow Jesus. I think your idols . . . the ones who’s ground you kiss . . . are following their master Judas.
Remember when they took a vote, (as someone blogged before) they allowed GOD to determine the outcome.
They being the Apostles.
Sam I am sorry for the big words. You can go to www.dictionary.com to look them up.
Sam quote, "Like go back to your favorite website jessicasimpson.com" Like your language is TOTALLY NARLY, Like I kiss the ground Timo walks on. Like he say jump, and I say HOW HIGH BOYFRIEND!
I know exactly what I'm talking about Sammy, that's why you can't even come back with anything of intelligence. I will ask again, HOW WAS THE BREAKFAST on Saturday at the church? Dis you sit next to your wittle Timo.
By the way if you think Timo and Sal are men of God, then you trully are GAY! I personally know Sal and why he came back from Arizona (beat his wife). And you and I know that Timo's girfriend has been around different blocks with him many times.
Maybe you're just jealous that Timo pays more attention to her than to you. Dumb ...ss!!!
Again Sam, making a menso out of yourself. No, not all of Jesus' disciples were educated, but how many of them help write the Bible?
In addition, Jesus' disciples did not need seminary. They had Jesus at their disposal.
You need to grab a book and study a bit. Seems like the only word you know is "secular humanism". And even that, you're still not sure about. And get to know your B-I-B-L-E.
!!ATENCION PASTORES!!
Es mejor perder temporalmente una batalla (no la guerra), PERO CON HONRA, que ganar temporalmente CON DESHONRA. Todos los miembros de la deshonorable mesa directiva, y de la deshonorable mesa calificadora, han ganado temporalmente una batalla NO MORAL, ya que NO han tenido principios de conducta con INTEGRIDAD. Cuando presentaron el CID a los obispos y a los pastores, nunca explicaron que iban a tener a los pastores votando en Noviembre del 2006, pero que iban a IGNORAR TOTALMENTE el voto de los pastores. Es esto HONESTO? Nunca explicaron que la comisión calificadora iba a votar dos veces en la primera ronda de votos, es decir, votaron cuando todos los pastores votaron, y enseguida, IGNORARON TOTALMENTE los votos de los pastores, la comisión calificadora VOTO DE NUEVO (esto está en la declaraciones de ellos mismos, que sometieron a la corte, el día 21 de Febrero) para escoger a los que ellos quisieron, lo cual es lo mismo a decir que, a los que Sánchez y Valverde quisieron. Es esto HONESTO? Lo mismo hicieron exactamente en la segunda ronda de votos para escoger candidatos, la comisión calificadora votó junto con todos lo pastores, acto seguido, IGNORARON todos los votos de los pastores, y ellos, la comision calificadora, votó para finalmente poner a quienes Sánchez y Valverde ya habían planeado poner. Es esto HONESTO? Por eso es que van a ser investigados por Fraude y Conspiración, porque hay suficientes pruebas para demostrar que ellos ya habían planeado a quienes iban a poner, hantes del día de elecciones de Noviembre del 2006. Pastores, ABRAN LOS OJOS, lean las declaraciones llenas de perjurio que ellos sometieron a la corte el 21 de Febrero, y las que los plaintiffs sometieron el día 28, para que comprueben con sus propios ojos lo que ellos declaran que hicieron, que nunca explicaron a obispos y pastores que hiban a hacer. Y únanse a esta causa de justicia. El presidente Sánchez ha dicho, de palabra, que "disque" los pastoreds son los mas importante, pero ha demostrado con hechos, con sus votos NO VALEN NADA!!!! en USTEDES Está que TODO EL PODER se centre en Sánchez y Valverde, o NO!
Last laugh for the nite. I bet the GB and their cohorts are beside themselves thinking about that $24 million figure Apostolic Voice talked about! Right now they're trying to figure out a way way to get their hands on it as if it already exists and making plans on how to split it! Ha Ha!
CBG, why do you even bother going to church? You just like to show up and judge people. Did someone nominate YOU as president of church? You may know Tim and Sal, but you don't KNOW them like I know them. Trust me, believe me, they are men of God. But I can magine that you will call Sal a wife beater. Let me ask you, do you really know what happend? Did you actually witness Sal beating his wife? No. you weren't there and so you no not know. I guess you'll be calling Tim gay while you are at it.
What kind of Christian are you? You don't even know the bible. You not even quoted any verse. Get real, get a life. Move to some other church while you are at it.
It is a shame see what is going on in our assembly. But is not surprising since we are learning from the trinitarian seminaries so much so that we are beginning to look like them. No more zeal for our doctrine. Legalist. Not at all. Loving the Lord and His beauty is what I live for as well as many others who are not afraid to say it. So, it is not surpising that with all these men who are studied in theology, so full of arrogance and greed that they are blinded by their self-centeredness. And most of you that are leaving comments don't even seem to be living a repented and converted life in the LORD. It very noticeable by the expressions of your comments that most of you don't read your bibles and don't know what the Holy Ghost is all about. He is not only our Counseller but also our guide. When will our assembly get back on track. Read Jer. 6:16. "Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. Its got to be a message that doesn't ruffle my feathers and disturb my comfort zones. "FASTING, PRAYER, FEAR AND TREMBLING AND HOLINESS IS THE ONLY ANSWER TO THE HEALING OF OUR ILLS.
Guaranteed to work. Its Jesus stamp of approval.
How mysterious that some comments I have posted are deleted.
!!!!!!!!!!pero como dije antes lo que Dios hace el lo hace bien el no comete errores!!!!!
El mundo no gira alrededor de la familia Torres y porfavor porque la familia ha cometido sus propios errores no los tengan como unos santos porque lejos estan de ello!!!
to Apostolic Blood
We all are humans and just like you no one is a saint everybody has made mistakes int he past but one thing i know and that is that what BISHOP abel is doing is the right thing to do.
Apostolic Blood
So, si como dices lo que Dios hace lo hace bien porque estas haciendo comentarios de que la gente es "fea"? Mirate en el espejo y mejor callate porque no sabes lo que dices. Eres un amargado y sabemos porque.
AY CUANTOS DEDITOS PISARIA, NO LO QUE DIOS HACE LO HACE BIEN. PORESO NO DEBERIAN DE PINTARSE EL PELO NI CORTARSELO NI UNTARSE SOQUETE EN LA CARA PORQUE LO QUE DIOS LO HACE BIEN GUSTELES ON NO!!!!!!PERO SEPAN QUE SI EL HNO. ABEL HA HECHO VARIAS COSAS NO LICITAS COMO ESCOGER QUIEN EL QUIERE COMO SECRETARIO, RECIENTEMENTE Y ANOS PARA ATRAS UN UNA CONVENCION TAMBIEN PUSO AL HNO MARROQUIEN QUIEN ES SU CUNADO DE PRESIDENTE DE LOS JOVENES----NADIE LO ESCOGIO PORQUE ERA RECIEN LLEGADO AQUI EN WEST TEXAS NADIE LO CONOCIA---HNO TORRES TU SABES DE QUE HABLO!!!!!!!!!
Apostolic Blood. From what I hear there are many brothers in that district that would not have even been pastors had it been for bro. Torres. I have heard that Bro. Torres has done many things for people that should have been written off. Sound like there is a lttle resentment in your tone. This is how it always is when ever a man is being used by God there are those who wish it had been them. I do not know you brother or sister in Christ so therefore I can not say you are bitter. I do not blame you. This is a concept that the GB has taught us. Some one is being used lets drag out the skeletons.
God Bless You
With love and respect
Apostolic Blood
Ay que crimenes! Amargado. Just because no one wants you as pastor anywhere.
APOSTOLIC INSIDER:
THE THING IS THAT YES GOD HAS USED THESE MEN AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT GOD WILL NOT CONTINUE TO DO SO. MY POINT IS THAT WHEN YOU DO SOMETHING WHETHER IT IS AT DISTRICT LEVEL OR AT LOCAL OR NATIONAL LEVEL THE ERROR IS STILL THE SAME. I THINK WE SHOULD LEARN FROM OUR ERRORS AND GO ON. YES NO ONE IS PERFECT SO WE SHOULDN'T DO SOMETHING AND THEN ACT HORRORIZED WHEN SOMEONE ELSE DOES THE SAME THING. NO I'M NOT AMARGADO OR AMARGADA. I JUST THINK WE SHOULD ALL FACE THE FACTS AND OUR ERRORS TOO ALL OF US INCLUDING MYSELF.
i see the conversation has dropped to new lows... lol
aside from the current petty issues at hand..
any have lastest updates on what is going on in Austin, Houston, Denver, LA?
Please do not coem in here and simply state "somehting is int he works" geez what does that mean, gove some background or supporting info on that at least.
well... its almost lunchtime where i am, i hope "something is in the works" in that cafeteria downstairs.. LOL
It isn't the same Apostolic Blood. I doubt that what you say is true but what the GB did was for money and lots of it. Local and district positions are not money making positions. If in fact Bro. Torres had a hand in placing someone in a position I'm sure it was for a very good cause. The same as when someone cannot be placed for reasons not everyone knows as in the recent elections for Bishop, some did not qualify.
Apostolic Blood. There is no need to get over worked and start yelling. I am just stating what we as readers perceive when some one writes. I was not yelling or trying to change your mind because after all you are entitled to your own opinion. As for me I would just rather keep quote for by the same measure we use others shall use it on us.
Apostolic Blood
My apologies if I offended you. I know some of us are hotheads. In my case I get really riled up when anyone says anything degrading about the Torres family. You see eventhough I'm not from that area any longer I have those people for many years and what I didn't witness myself my parents told me many times over the years. They talked about them with such love and admiration and I for one will never forget the sacrifices the family of our wonderful Bro. V.B. Torres who has gone to be with the Lord. We are truly blessed to have Sis. Torres still with us and God Bless Bro. Abel Torres for his hard work and devotion and for standing for God's church. This is what I and I am sure many, many others feel towards these pioneers who have worked so hard in this district. We owe them full respect.
APOSTOLIC INSIDER AND COME AGAIN, SORRY IF YOU GOT THE IMPRESSION THAT I WAS OFFENDED OR THAT I WAS YELLING, BUT IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT THE TORRES USED TO BE WHEN BRO V. TORRES WAS AROUND IS NO LONGER, WHAT THEY USED TO BE. SEE BRO. ABEL MARRIED A WOMAN WHOM NOW RUNS THE SHOW AND IF YOU CONGREGATE IN THAT CHURCH OR EVER DID, THEN YOU WOULD KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. THE TRUTH IS THAT ALOT OF MINISTERS IN THAT LOCAL CHURCH AND MEMBERS HAVE ISSUES WITH THAT WOMAN AND SHE WILL CONTINUE TO GET HER WAY WHILE HE IS PASTOR, UNLESS BRO ABEL CHANGES HIS MIND OF WHO IS THE BOSS!!!
Apostolic Blood:
You just hit the nail on the head.
Lots of the problems we have now in the AA is that the Pastors don't run the church anymore. Its the wives or the offsring, or relatives. women are making decisions in church that women shouldn't be making.
don't get me wrong women have a part in church, but not making decisions that gets into who goes and who comes.
I knew there had to be an arrelo behind that. This is the same family that tries to control the district not just the wife lol.
LITTLE EDDIE,
I'M GLAD THAT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING. BRO. VALENTINE TORRES, WAS A GREAT MAN, BUT HIS WIFE DID NOT RUN THE SHOW. I CAN SPK WITH THIS ASSURANCE CAUSE I ALSO KNOW THE TORRES FAMILY FOR YRS. BUT ALL CHANGED WHEN THIS ONE WOMAN STARTED TAKING AUTHORITY FROM THE LEADER GOD INTENDED TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS. NOW FEMALES DONT TAKE ME WRONG THERE ARE SPECIAL PLACES FOR THE DORCAS IN THE CHURCH AND YES YOUR OPINION COUNTS BUT THE FINAL SAY SHOULD BE THE LEADER OF THE CHURCH OF THE HOME OR WHAT EVER THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE.
yeah right, cuz with that mentality that's why the AA should have never been in this situation.
Apostolic blood why do you speak with so much hate? Why do you attack the wife of the man who is fighting for justice? You claim to have known her for so many years but you have actually never known her. This woman is courageous to take the beatings that her husband is taking from those that hate justice. She has gone through so much including fighting cancer and now was chosen by Bishop Victor Prado to be director of a new ministry in the AA under Social Assistance helping other cancer patients. She is giving back to other women in the church what was given to her from the Lord. Does this sound like someone who is trying to destroy others?
APOSTOLIC INSIDER---WOW MUST OF PINCHED A NERVE HUH? YOU ASK WHY I SPEAK THIS WAY? LIKE I SAID I HAVE KNOWN THESE PEOPLE FOR YRS. AND AGAIN I AM NOT JUDGING--NO ONE IS PERFECT. AND IF YOU KNEW THIS FAMILY WELL ENOUGH THEN YOU WOULD KNOW WHAT AND WHY I SPEAK THIS WAY. YES I KNEW THE SISTER HAD CANCER AND THE LORD HEALED HER. BUT AS A DORCA THERE IS A PLACE IN HER HUSBANDS MINISTRY AND ITS NOT BEING THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH OR THE DISTRICT. JUST CAUSE I QUOTE THE TRUTH ITS HATRED NOW IS IT???
THIS IS ANOTHER COMMENT ON THE PASTORABELVTORRES.BLOGSPOT WEB PAGE FROM EL PRIMO: SORRY PRIMO HAD TO LET THEM VIEW THIS ITS SOOO TRUE:
primo said...
Lo que pasa aqui es que el papa del Hno. Abel uso la misma clausula de la constitusion de la Asamblea en un tiempo atras para quitar el voto de la iglesia y dejar el puesto de la tesoreria en la familia, el Hno Abel tambien la uso para poner al Hno. Phil Marroquin como secretario del distrito y ahora que se uso en contra no nos gusto para nada.
March 18, 2008 7:35 AM
How dare you say that about her? she has done nothing but support pastor torres! she is a strong woman but that doesnt mean that she is the head of the church. i've heard this saying before that i think fits. "Behind every successful man, there is a strong woman."
TO JESUS LIVES:
"Behind every successful man, there is a strong woman
READ THAT RIGHT IT SAYS BEHIND NOT IN FRONT OR LEADING THE WAY.
obviously none of you are married and don't appreciate women
JAKE:
EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION----YOU CAN QUOTE WHAT YOU THINK AND I CAN QUOTE WHAT I KNOW WHAT I'VE SEEN AND MY OPINION.
YOUR OPINION IS THAT I'M FULL OF HATRED----WELL THATS YOUR OPINION.
YOUR OPINION IS WELCOME BUT DOES NOT NECESSARILY QUOTE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!
yeah i read it! i wrote it for a reason. she isnt leading the way or in front of pastor torres as you say! you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. why do you have to start attacking her. im not saying she is perfect but she has done nothing to deserve this. like i said all she has done is support Pastor Torres as her husband, best friend, and most importantly as her Pastor!
JESUS LIVES-----------
NO ONE IS ATTACKING HER--------SIMPLY QUOTING THE TRUTH.
TOO BAD YOU HAVENT WOKE UP YET!!!!!!!!!
You all are just totally jealous, its not our fault who was not allowed to run for bishop. Sis Dahlia has done more for the church and the Lord than you ever will. Bitterness will get you nowhere. Goodbye! Talk to yourselves.
the only problem with what you say is that it isnt the truth! she has a strong character and when she got here it was hard for all of us to understand her, but we have grown to love her because she earned it. believe me if she was anything like you describe her this church wouldnt have accepted her, but she is a great woman and nothing like you say! which is why i am defending her!
JESUS LIVES AND COME AGAIN:
HERE YOU GO: BRO TORRES AND HIS WIFE WERE AT ONE TIME IN EL PASO. BRO. TORRES WAS THE PASTOR IN ALFA OMEGA. I KNOW WHO SISTER DAHLIA IS AND SHE KNOWS HOW TO MANIPULATE LIKE A PRO. LIKE I SAID YOUR OPINION IS YOUR OPINION, I CAN ONLY QUOTE WHAT I KNOW AND WHAT IS MY OPINION. GLADLY!!!!!
im sorry that that is your opinion of her, and that you dont know her better to think otherwise.
OH NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE REALLY, THAT WONT CHANGE HER CHARACTER. I DEFINATELY DONT CARE TO KNOW HER MORE THAT I ALREADY DO!!! MAY GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR CHURCH.
Alert!!!!
The GB is having a meeting today and they are blood thirsty.
im not apologizing, im just saying that i feel sorry for you because you really dont know her. i think and this is just my "opinion" that you had one bad experience with her and were left bitter. unlike a true christian you held a grudge and werent able to forgive, but like i said that is just my opinion.
and God Bless you too!
honestly im not sayin this with a sarcastic tone or anything like that...but i'll be praying for you, and no not to change your mind or anything, but just praying for you.
So IM ready for the Texas regional confference this coming Friday in Grapevine Texas Awsome yay!!!!! anybody going???
Hello:
blood thirsty!
Who's?
JESUS LIVES:
THANK YOU HONESTLY THAT IS WHAT WE SHOULD ALL DO FOR EACH OTHER. I THINK THE END OF TIMES IS VERY NEAR AND THAT IS WHY ALL THIS IS GOING ON. I HONESTLY DO NOT HATE THE TORRES FAMILY REALLY I DONT OR SISTER DAHLIA. BUT YES MAYBE LIKE YOU SAY ONE OR MORE EXPERIENCES HAVE FORMED AN OPINION IN MY MIND.
BUT THAT YOU HONESTLY FOR THE NOBLE ACT FOR PRAYING FOR ME THAT CANNOT HURT ANYONE---I WILL ALSO BE PRAYING FOR YOU AND YOUR CHURCH----GOD BLESS!!!!
i have to get off now, but i am really glad that i am leaving in good terms with you, apostolic blood.
you are right we do need to be praying for each other because the end is near and things are going to get difficult and besides praying we need to stick together instead of turning on each other.
God Bless!
Gracias Senor Jehova por poner la paz en nuestros medios y te pedimos que nos sigas iluminando para el bien de tu Obra. Perdonanos nuestras faltas en estos tiempos tempestuosos y que no nos pongamos contra nuestros hermanos.
Sam: do you believe that only apostolics will make it to heaven?
Sam you have really crossed the line now. It's been said by the Torres family that an investigation will take place in finding your identity through the blog master to find out who you are for charges that will be filed against you for defamation of character of Pastor Abel Torres. Someone has already informed them of who you might be.
sammy, sammy, sammy...
"I heared, through my inside sources, that your beloved Abel Torres had an affiar with one of the youth in El Paso."
you and your inside sources have re-drawn a new line of attack, it is now personal, ugly, venemous and slanderous. you are the one who called pastor willie mendoza a "cochino" for marrying a 50 year sister as his new wife. you are the one who called our mexican brethren as "mojados". you are the one who called bishop abel torres as "buddah". now you name names of people that you don't even know about other than what you hear from your peeps. i am pretty sure that the kitchen sink ala hillary towards obama, will come your way. so a word of caution, if you can't take the heat, you better run out of the kitchen because it is coming your way...
run, sammy, run...
run, sammy, run...
run, sammy, run...
To ALL:
Comments on Bro. Torres and an affair is a lie from the pit of HELL.
Sam:
This is a harsh sin you have committed with your demonic-decieving tongue! "I REBUKE YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!!
Sam:
I hope you understand the repurcusions of your actions here on this blog. You are getting yourself in a deep mess of woes not only with people who are angry at you, but an powerful GOD who is writing down every evil lie you are committing here. You are the reason why GOD would vomit you out of HIS SOVEREIGN FAMILY TREE. This is exactly the evil acts and plans of the devil in the endtimes that we are all in, to cause confusion,anxiety,depression,and seperation amongst ourselves in this corrupted organization. People, we are in the end of days but just don't know how close to the RAPTURE we are.
To Torres Family,
"I will praise the Lord,who counsels me; even at night my heart instructs me.
I have set the Lord always before me. Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken."
Psalm 16:7-8
I am praying for peace and tranquility in your family,Bro.Torres. God is watching over you and your family.
What a bunch of perverts. Automatically you think sexual affair. I meant to say he had dealt with his church affairs, as in the business of the church. The girl was a girl from the church, who got married and got pregnant and had a baby while a member of Alpha Omega or in Juarez. Thats what I got from my sources inside the loop. If its a lie, then they lied about it and I must have mis understood or you mis understood what I tried to say. He didn't have a direct affait but while dealing with the churches affairs, I mean businesses and diastrict business affairs he had a member who was married and pregnant. I think you know what I mean. Rebuke me? LOL you should be rebuking your idol Torres for filing a frivilously lawsuit against the church. That would be like Peter suing the apostol paul.
I think suing the church is causing a satanic division. So don't go rebuking me before you rebuke yourselves for dividing the church and speaking evily against the board.
oh yeah nice cover up sam! to bad its not gonna work. stop being such a hypocrite! like i said before pastor torres isnt anybody's idol and nobody worships him. you however do idolize the current GB members. you're done sam. and that is all i am going to say to you. i think we should all try and stop trying to change sam's mind(no matter how wrong he may be). the only one that can help you is God!
I say we all pray for sam tonight, that God may help him.
who's with me?
I figured out what the problem is with (Apostolic Blood, Jake, Little Eddie Alias Napo, and Samuelin). These four guys tend to wear there calzoncitos alreves! They also are very intimidated by women in leadership positions. Honestly, I think a Dorca could lead the AA just as good as anybody on the GB now. Apostolic Blood why don't you just go back to Ojinaga your Burro misses you my man!
LA DIST.
Wow, what a day. All the dirt slinging, false accusations, etc. and culminating with Sam the slimy weasel making up stories only to have to backpedal furiously ("duh, that's not what I meant"). Sometimes its really hard to believe that most of us are supposedly brothers and sisters in Christ.
But the great thing about all this is that luckily it is taken with a grain of salt by those of us who know not to believe just anything. I heard that as this is all going on Bro. A. Torres and his dear wife were busy with the Lord's work tonite traveling to the new mission in Big Spring for a service. The man of God is busy with His work. Thank you Bro. Abel for bringing a sense of peace to us in the midst of all this turmoil. God Bless You.
AMEN!!
Sam,
Honestly. "Therefore, they "women" are in a subservient role"?
Maybe the reason the AA is having such issues is because women AREN'T allowed to be in leadership roles, due to the 16th century thinking of people like yourself.
Perhaps the fact that these men have egos the size of Alaska has something to do with the conflict going on.
And maybe, just maybe, it will take a woman of God to undo the messes men have made for decades in this assembly. After all, it was Deborah and Jael, two women, who won the battle against Sisera.
Be blessed.
But the great thing about all this is that luckily it is taken with a grain of salt by those of us who know not to believe just anything. I heard that as this is all going on Bro. A. Torres and his dear wife were busy with the Lord's work tonite traveling to the new mission in Big Spring for a service
OH WOW! HOW SUPER OF HIM. GEEEPERS, LOOK AT ABEL TORRES TRAVELING THE TEXAS PLAINS IN A RV GOING TO SIT ON A CHURCH BENCH.
HE'S A MODERN SUPER HERO. GOING FROM CITY TO CITY TO SERVICE TO SERVICE. FROM LOVE OFFERING TO LOVE OFFERING.
YOU MAKE IT SEEM AS IF HE WAS GOING INTO THE PRISONS AND EVANGELIZING. LIKE IF HE WAS GOING TO JUAREZ, MEXICO TO WITNESS TO THE DRUG DEALERS. OR LIKE IF HE WAS SETTING UP AN PROGRAM FOR VICTIMS OF HUMAN TRAFFICKING.
OH BUT NO, HE'S SITE SEEING IN HIS RV, GOING TO A CHURCH SERVICE, COLLECT AN OFFERING SINCE HE'S NOT GETTING HIS BISHOP PAYCHECK ANYMORE.
I BET HE WENT TO WHATTA BURGER AFTER CHURCH.
Sam
You are officially EL IDIOTA DE LA ASAMBLEA, you wear the title well.
run, sammy, run...
what happened to your spine, you wimp? why did you remove your blog? are you afraid now of what is coming your way? sorry you wimp, you stroked the keyboard of your pc one too many times and the damage has already been done. get ready for what is coming your way.
run, sammy, run...
¡¡ATENCION PASTORES!!
La deshonorable mesa directiva se defiende en sus declaraciones del 21 de febrero, diciendo que el CID fue presentado para su aprobación a obispos y pastores.
Los que están deshonestamente en el mísmo nivel de moral que ellos (mesa directiva y comisión calificadora) y que los defienden, aluden a lo mísmo.
PERO NO IMPORTA que se trate del presidente, porque desde el presidente, hasta el pastor más humilde, TODOS DEBEN SUJETARSE A LA CONSTITUCION exactamente de la misma manera.
El presidente TENIA QUE haber pasado el CID por el proceso que marca el artículo 75 de nuestra constitución. El inciso I, dice: "Las propuestas-iniciativas, son el instrumento para enmendar, crear o eliminar artículos de la Constitución de la Asamblea Apostólica, y DEBERAN INICIALMENTE (énfasis agregado) entregarse al Obispo Secretario General quien, en su DEBIDO ORDEN (énfasis agregado), las presentarán a la reunión ministerial de la Convención General, para estudiar si deben recibir una resolución inicial de proceso".
NADA DE ESTO SE HIZO, quedando el CID como un documento QUE AÑADE conceptos al artículo 5 de nuestra constitución, inciso II, lo cual significa que el CID provoca una enmienda a la constitución, y crea nuevos conceptos que se añaden al mismo artículo 5, inciso II.
Esto obligaba a que el CID, TENIA QUE HABER PASADO POR EL ARTICULO 75, sin importar que el CID fuera creado por orden del presidente a Martín del Campo.
Por otro lado, ya que los deshonestos de la mesa directiva, y los deshonestos que los defienden, insisten en que fue aprobado por obispos y pastores. Pues bien, vamos a ver de forma precisa, QUE ES LO QUE SE APROBO. (haciendo de momento a un lado la realidad de que el CID NO ES constitucional de acuerdo al juez y al artículo 75).
Primero: De acuerdo a la declaración de Sánchez del 21 de febrero, él dice que le pidió a Martín del Campo, y a Eddie "el 2 votos", que interpretaran de manera clara las palabras capacidad, idoneidad, y derecho. También quedó escrito que le pidió a Martín del Campo que "DEFINIERA CLARAMENTE EL LENGUAJE DE LOS TERMINOS, capacidad, idoneidad, y derecho". ¡¡ATENCION!! Por eso, Martín del Campo NO INCLUYO VOTOS en su documento (digo su documento, porque en él no aparece el nombre de Eddie "el 2 votos"). Y
¡¡ATENCION!! Sánchez también le había pedido previamente a Luciano Montes que hiciera lo mísmo, pero como Luciano Montes fue honesto INCLUYENDO LOS VOTOS EN EL DOCUMENTO, pues Sánchez ni caso le hizo al documento ORIGINAL del CID, porque ya tenía planeado IGNORAR LOS VOTOS DE LOS PASTORES. Y el CID que le hizo Martín del Campo ESE SI LE GUSTO porque se prestaba para cumplir la CONSPIRACION Y EL FRAUDE QUE YA TENIA PLANEADO JUNTO CON VALVERDE.
Segundo: El nefasto documento se hizo, lleno de AMBIGUEDADES, que se presta para usarlo como se les antoje. Y ¿Qué es lo que contiene entonces el CID? Respuesta: La interpretación personal de Martín del Campo de las palabras capacidad, idoneidad, y derecho, que es EXACTAMENTE Y UNICAMENTE lo que Sánchez le pidió.
Tercero: La interpretación de las palabras capacidad, idoneidad, y derecho, le fue presentada a los obispo y pastores.
Cuarto: Así que, lo que los obispos y pastores APROBARON fue UNICAMENTE LA INTERPRETACION del lenguaje de las palabras, capacidad, idoneidad, y derecho; NADA MAS!!!
Quinto: Eso significa, que EL RESTO del contenido del artículo 5, inciso II, QUEDO INTACTO, VALIDO Y VIGENTE, Y POR LO TANTO LA COMISION CALIFICADORA LO DEBERIA DE HABER OBEDECIDO AL PIE DE LA LETRA en las Elecciones de Noviembre del 2006,
Es decir, que en PRIMER LUGAR, deberían de haber tomado en cuenta a los que obtuvieron EL MAYOR NUMERO DE VOTOS, pero ellos IGNORARON los votos de los pastores, y deberían de haber escogido de 2 a 5 de los que habían obtenido el mayor número de votos.
Pero, ¿Qué es lo que hizo la comisión calificadora? IGNORANDO los votos de los pastores, ellos empezaron a votar por cada uno de los nombres que les fueron enviados por los 5 de la comisión electoral que contaron los votos, y dicen en sus declaraciones del 21 de febrero.
Que NO FUE APROBADO NINGUNO QUE NO HUBIERE RECIBIDO DE ELLOS (mesa calificadora) EL MAYOR NUMERO DE VOTOS. Ahí, en ese momento, desecharon a quienes ellos quisieron, y pusieron a quienes ellos ya habían planeado poner, tomando como excusa el nefasto CID, para cometer fraude, y consumar la conspiración planeada, la mentira, la hipocresía, actos ruines, sucios, anticristianos, de sucia política, así como los impíos del mundo.
Haciéndole gran daño a los pastores, que por Obra del Espíritu Santo, a través de los pastores, habían quedado elegidos LEGITIMAMENTE!!!
Es esto HONESTO, y CRISTIANO? Yo no se cómo pueden festejar la decisión del juez, y decir que "fueron justificados" por el juez, y considerar su fallo como un triunfo.
Debería de darles verguenza, pero eso sería ESPERAR MUCHO DE ELLOS Y DE LOS QUE LOS DEFIENDEN. Pero el Juez de jueces, condenatoriamente para ellos, NO LOS JUSTIFICA!!!
Pastores, ABRAN LOS OJOS, únanse a esta lucha que NO ha terminado. ¿Sabrá este juez la constitución mejor que los pastores? ¿Estará bien que le haya dado más valor a lo que NO está escrito que a lo que SI está escrito para tomar su decisión?
¿Que no se supone que todo lo que se hace se debe de hacer en APEGO escrito como marca la constitución? El presidente Sánchez violó el artículo 39, inciso I (entre otros), el cual dice: "El Obispo Presidente, al ser electo, para ser confirmado en su puesto, deberá protestar públicamente, a cumplir con todos los ordenamientos establecidos en la presente Constitución"...
El artículo 75 es un ordenamiento establecido para ENMENDAR o REFORMAR la constitución, y Sánchez lo violó. Y finalmente, él, Valverde, y resto de la comisión calificadora, VIOLARON LA CONFIANZA DE LOS OBIPOS Y PASTORES al DARLE EL USO AL CID,sin integridad ni temor de Dios, de una forma QUE NUNCA EXPLICARON A LOS OBISPOS Y PASTORES!!!
Constitucionalmente, el voto tomado a los obispos y pastores, NO TIENE NINGUNA VALIDEZ, por lo antes explicado, ya que el CID no pasó por el proceso constitucional
del artículo 75.
Y lo que especialmente hace que el CID se haya estado usando ilegalmente de acuerdo a nuestras leyes constitucionales, es la forma SIN INTEGRIDAD NI HONESTIDAD en que lo han usado.
Que NUNCA!! advirtieron que lo harían asi, como ahora nos hemos dado cuenta. Y eso porque fueron obligados por el juez, a fuerzas tenían que explicar el proceso que ellos siguieron, y ahora quedaron expuestos, y descubiertos ante ustedes los pastores.
Pastores, ABRAN LOS OJOS, hagan conciencia de lo que son capaces de hacer nuestros máximos líderes.
Unanse, la unión hace la fuerza, busquen, llamen por teléfono, contáctense con nuestros hermanos que hicieron posible que a la mesa directiva se le llame a cuentas.
La lucha no ha terminado, apenas comienza, sabemos que no ha sido fácil, pero con la ayuda de Dios y el apoyo de ustedes, SERA POSIBLE LA JUSTICIA!!!
To all bloggers,
Send me your emails to P.O. Box 25689, Fontana, Ca. 92335, and I will tell you who Sam is. I will give you his identity and his address, so you can prosecute!
CBG,
Send his identity to tremendo777@yahoo.com
Sister Dahlia Torres is a great person, loves God and has a fighting heart.
Is she perfect? No. But she is a great person, who supports her husband in everything.
APOSTOLIC BLOOD-whoever you are, or whereever you are from (Odessa or El Paso or Even Midland) know this, Only Cowards Post Anonymous Comments to Defame Someones Character.
How sad that people or "Apostolic Chrisitans" take shots at someone who was a cancer survivor (Sis. Dahlia Torres)!
Wow! Just like our assembly, no integrity whatsoever, right apostolic blood.
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