I think I figured it out.
I was looking at the pictures from the 2006 Elections (thank for the link to AA.info) and I came across this picture of this guy nodding off.
IT'S HIS FAULT!! He should have been diligently seeking direction through prayer. Even the waiter in the white suit was praying.
Who is this guy? He should be stripped of his license, disbarred, censored, flogged, and publicly humiliated. Had he been praying steadfast as the bible dictates, perhaps we all would have been relieved the current situation. Talk about a butterfly effect!
I was impressed with the whole election production. It seemed well organized. For some reason in my mind I had the impression that there was a bunch of men in white socks and black shoes using yellow stickies to write in an illegible script the name of who's back they wanted to scratch. It was actually, at least it looked like a very well thought out, organized event. The video monitors, the voting keypads, the district signage...even the waiter in the white suit stopped serving coffee and water and joined the Apostolico's in attendance in prayer.
While I was rifling through the pictures, these following thoughts came to my mind:
(1)The men in this picture are the very men who voted in the CID in the previous year. Not one objected. Not one questioned the document. Not one questioned the intent behind the document. NOT ONE! Even those that are on the plaintiff side did not object!
So that begs the question, Do we have the blind leading the blind? Well it appears to me that this is obviously so, for not one clergy member objected either did one person outside of the clergy. Including yours truly (for the record, I wasn't even aware there was a CID prior to this lawsuit).
Does this mean that it was not even discussed among the clergy? You would think that a couple of hermano's would sit and discuss the political topics in the Assembly after church one night over coffee and pandulce. It's looks like they're discussing it now and much more. (From my interaction with several brethren, the clergy can't even figure out who they can trust. Again this due to political posturing...haven't we had enough of that? But that is another topic).
(2)Did these clergy member's know that their individual vote counted only as 1/4 of the of the electoral process. Let's see, that means with respect our beloved organization each minister(person) is considered a fraction of a vote. It would take four ministers (persons) to make one whole vote. I will have to go back to my American history class but if I remember correctly even the slave's had more voting rights per person, 3/5 of a vote. And that 3/5 was weighed against a white mans 1/1 vote. That means it would take two black votes to neutralize one white man's vote. The Apostolic clergies individual vote is weighed against several committees that held the 3/4 of the vote. I'm not a statistician but it seems to me that the clergies vote doesn't even matter. AND THE WOMEN HAVE ZERO!!
OUR ORGANIZATION IS GOING BACKWARDS!!
And sisters don't sit there with smug look on your face, everyone of you have accepted the fact that you don't count save making a few tamales for the building fund. Why do the women have to be in an auxillary role (functioning in a subsidiary (secondary importance) capacity)?
Maybe that hermano caught nodding off, was indeed a mathmatician in disguise, knew of this and realized he was wasting his time sitting there while he could have been at Disneyland.
Apostolic Voice
Blogmaster
25 comments:
(1)The men in this picture are the very men who voted in the CID in the previous year. Not one objected. Not one questioned the document. Not one questioned the intent behind the document. NOT ONE! Even those that are on the plaintiff side did not object!
Quote blog master
4. The CID document presented for approval was always presented as a document for
8 definition only. There was no explanation ever given of its application to the election process and
9 it was never looked at as an amendment to the Constitution.
Quote Baldemar Rodriguez
S. Whenever the document referred to by the Defendants as the CID was presented to the
11 General Board of Directors in 2005,It was presented as document with definitions only, "There was
12 never any discussion expressly or impliedly stating that it would be used as a way to determining the
13 candidate for election with a greater weight than the vote itself.
Quote Salomon
good take jose.....
in going over the documents on info you can read that the famous cid never went through the proper legislative channel as stated in article 75 of the aa constitution found in stillman's brief.
this is where the gb is caught!!!! the cid is being applied as a legal document but in reality it is not a legal one.
how many of our "district leaders" have ever taken a course in political science, hwo many are even familiar with the "American" form of legislative discourse, I would venture to say a very very minute minority.
Add the Political Clout, BLack-Mailing, and outright Suppresion of any opposing opinion in these meetings, and there you have it. The AA is run like Spain during the SPanish Inqutisition! Rather than submitting a proposal and let it stand on its own merit, they are presented as the Stone Tablets given to Moses on Sinai, as if it was dictated from Yahweh's own mouth, who can oppose that???
Who in their right mind would ever be against the "spirit" etc? It is pure religious demagogue, and outright oppresion.
Remember most of these men coem from Latin American coutnries where democracy is either in its infancy, or non-existent, and so it is not in their culture. Add the fact most are uneducated, and prone to religous intimidation, and you get a lesislative body that does not have a single objection, and simply rubber stamps whatever "Kim Jong Il-Sanchez" and "Malverde Pinochet" propose.
AND that is why the educated, the professional, the free thinker and the independent is never set aside, ordained, or allowed to be placed in a position of influence. The house of cards would never withstand opposition, so from the local church, to the GB, it is rigged for self-preservation.
My two cents on the AA's political discourse...
now, for you other neanderthals... resume the personal attacks.. and discuss nothing of value
hahaha
16. The 2006 Election Commission found that after
2 considering each nominee's "capabilities, qualities, and rights, If the
3 Qualifying Committee took a vote to determine if the nominee was
4 qualified to be a candidate for the office for which he was
5 nominated. Those who failed to obtain a majority vote of the
6 Qualifying Committee was deemed "not qualified." The actions by the
7 Qualifying Committee were consistent with Article 5, ~IV of the
8 Constitution
Quote Ismael Martin
17) Regardless of how many nominating votes a nominee received, any nominee who did not receive the majority of votes of the Qualifying Committee was not presented to the electoral body as a candidate for the position for which they were nominated.
Quote: Daniel Sanchez
If the QC knew they were going to have there own personal election between the five of them; then why did they have the ministerial body in fasting and prayers. It’s incredibly sad to see all the men of God with there hands lifted up and praying for the Lord’s direction, when “regardless” of how the pastors’ voted, the QC did there own thing. I think the QC knew the outcome months before the 06 convention.
If they really felt they had the right to use the CID the way they did. Then why didn’t they tell the pastors “regardless” of how they pray or voted it would not count. Tell the pastors’ there plans to have a private separate election among the five of them. Tell the pastors’ their vote only counted ¼ and not even that. And if nothing was done illegal, why not say all this from the beginning.
haha - I know the yawning man!
Where the representation?
I see a picture of Latino Males over the age of 35. Maybe a few under 35.
There are no women, no youth.
Are women and youth exempt from tithing? Are women and youth(over 18 years old) exempt from participating in church actities?
Are women and youth exempt from the standards of the church?
Then why are women and youth not allowed to vote for their leaders? Why are women and youth not allowed to serve on the national board?
Women and youth are expected to tithe and cooperate with activities yet they they have no share in the vote.
The system that the AA is anything but democratic.
Pastors are not voted for, they are appointed.
Also, pastors are appointing youth leaders. Mostly, there are no elections in local departments.
Members have no say in the system. That is why the AA will eventually fall. The Fidel Castro model of church politics is doomed.
Correction: Activities
Van,
i don't think the danger is in lack of dempgraphical representation (gender, age, or even geographic)...
the danger is in lack of variety or degrees of mind-set, points of view, opinions, and policy...
whats the point in women, youth, or what have you being there, if they all think the same...
i dont mind all 50 year old males, if they all have opposing views, open minds, and all opposing views are received fairly openly, and thoroughly vetted for their merit...
the problem is group think, the lack of ideas.
that's why generations have come and gone thru the assembly, and we never change...
the system is rigged for self preservation, and opposed to change. bring in a young man, a minority what have you, as long as he thinks like the rest of us...
that is where we have failed...
Porq para donde va vicente alli va la gente. Vicente es Gerente D. Sanchez
Hey all.
I know some of the men in the picture. I don't think it's right for you to be making fun of Pastors that way; regardless of what your opinions are.
God Bless.
Get real people the world does not evolve around the Torres family. There are other options--dont create so much drama!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dios sabe lo que hace y el lo hace bien, el no permite que alguien le haga dano a su Iglesia y sigan como si no hubiesen hecho nada. Dios defiende a su iglesia y a sus ungidos con espada y machete!
To the Bro. who was falling asleep:
"Work hard and become a leader;
be lazy and become a slave"
Proverbs 12:24 (NLT)
jajemo
poor pastor...he can't even yawn and people start questioning his spirituality.
:))
yea i know him.
Let God take care of everything. Sooner or later God will take care of the probem.
Typical behavior from supposedly, "Men of God", there has always been scandals within this Religious Organization. Lay people have always idolized preachers or men of high status within this particualar R.O. More times that not, pastors, preachers and persons of the GB, will have their own agendas. There have been preachers, pastors that have physically and sexually abused their own children and members of their own congragations; and very little has been done if anything at all. OMG, this particular event has everyone surprised??
I'll admit at first I was surprised to hear this, but, then again there have been far things worse that this R.O has allowed to happen. These men of the GB are that "men" they will make errors in judgement, give into their own pleasures and ideaoligies and say these actions and thoughts are of God. The AA has forgotten or put to one side it's original mission, " to preach the gospel to all creatures".
Hey Apostolic Blood...why are you mad at Bishop TOrres...you're the ONLY one who mentioned him on here.
Unfortunately Chumina...you are right...My wife was victim to one of those pervert pastors and nothing was done to help her. In fact he still preaches. Where's the "restoration committee" on that one.
Sorry we caught that bro yawning but...I've yawned at church too so....no judgment from me hahaha.
I meant to say Truth Revealed not Chumina.
Sorry Chumina
Love what you wrote about the women in the apostolic churches not being "counted". I've been there, grew up thinking my calling was only the indication that I was to be a "minister's wife", "missionaries's wife", a "preacher's wife"... but when we were "lynched" haha 3 years ago my life radically changed. I preach the gospel without waiting for a man to identify my ministry with and have never felt better before. As for the yawn, i'm guilty too jerry... hehehe so no condemnation from me either...
God love
No matter what happened during the election these are STILL men of God and you should NEVER say anything bad about the men of God!! Yeah, you can have your opinion on what they did, but once you start saying things about the men of God that's when it becomes wrong!!! There's no need for you to judge them on what they did. Your judgement on them won't count anyways...the Lord will judge them one day! Just pray for the Assembly and the GB!!!
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. (1 Corinthians 6:3-4)
Any questions Yvette?
Hey! I yawn at conventions, too. They're just men, after all. A concept, quite hard to grasp, I know. :p
Wooowwww, stripped of a license for a yawn, seriously? I tend to yawn WHEN im in prayer and speaking in tounges. Half the time it isn't even about being tired but a lack of oxygen. A little uncalled for in my opinion...
However I do love what was said about youth and women not being counted. I never thought about it before. I can see youth and women standing up and being involved in the church like never before, maybe we're getting closer to seeing that we all have callings besides marrying a minister. But that would of course make us more accountable and knowledgeable concerning religious politics... a topic ive never enjoyed.
Apostolic's There is no hope in the Apostolic Assembly or any 501c3 so-called non profit organization.
There is only hope in Christ our Lord and Savior and sincere Christians will trust in Christ alone as they go teach and preach the gospel and work in the Iglesia of Christ which is not any 501c3 so-called non profit org., amen?
The best thing is to discover the truth that no one needs the Apostolic Assembly and leave it behind, turn to Christ and trust Christ alone for all your Salvation needs, amen?
Sincere men of God go teach and preach the gospel of Christ and do not wait for any men to give you the go ahead, alright?
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