D-Day has arrived hermanos. In an effort to continue discussions I am bumping the Elections comments thread to this section. Please feel free to post your comments here. We will suspend comments in the previous sections.
As you were...
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well they might of won the battle but not the war because they have to fix the contitution and then they are goona go back to court MR. so dnt clame victory
The judge - unfortunately - read our lame constitution and said 'according to this, there are more holes than a block of swiss cheese'.
While the election was absolutely unethical, the constitution allows it to be so.
So . . . . until the constitution is fixed, expect the same GB members to remain in power until God returns for His church. They can even pass their positions on to their children if they want.
Coming soon - Vivtor 'Second' Prado Bishop of Social Assistance
There are going to be a lot of vacancies in the apostolic assembly.
These are the list of the excommunicated:
Art Tafoya
Willie Medoza
Daniel Solomon
Abel Torres
Juanito Sanchez
Efrain Andrade
Daniel Juahall
David Jimenez
John Vasquez
Abel Duarte
Mark Amin
Steve Montenegro
And the list will grow longer.
Maybe they won today, but they know they've done wrong. so what good does that do them! i just pray that God will work in them so that one day they will admit to what they have done. justice will be served!
What does Steve Montenegro and Mark Amin have to do with this?
To God is Justice:
What do you know, you dont even know how to spell!!! Its "Claim" and not clame!
If you do not know how to spell and articulate please stay off the blogs...
Funny how AA pastors shamed and put everyone and their tio and tia on prueba in the name of the constitution. And now, it turns out the constitution was just a waste of trees.
Goes to show the worth the AA puts on people.
Now why couldn't our previous/present board members listened to the flock that our constitution needed to be ratified??? This is beyond me.
Sam...
You are the Anti-Christ!
You kiss the feet of those who are corrupt but yet you have denied the power of God!
Bloggers give it up and form a new organization. APWC good thing you never identified yourself so you can keep your job. To We Care what is like to get a Texas Spanking. Bloggers if you are tired then protest and show your faces or quit your bickerig under an alias.
Onguard
Frijol!
You are right. This whole organization is messed up. I remember going to the convention meetings and Bro. Sam praising the constitution comparing it to the US constitution.
We dont even abide by it, unless it is convenient.
Onguard
I bet you dont even go to church! And if you are a Pastor, then you probably brown nose the GB and then turn your back and talk about them!!! What a hypocrite! You tell someone else to identify themselves when you dont even do it yourself! Just like the Assembly!
Onguard, You are probably an assistant to the GB... Pleasers of men rather than God!!!
Just take an honest assesment of the Assembly. Why doesnt God move like he use too???
Because the Assembly has to much Pride from top to bottom. The next time just try saying hi to someone important and you will see what I am talking about.
Pastors,
You can change this...By making demands to the GB at Convention...
As yourself, Am I a somebody in the Assembly? If the answer is no, then more than likely they will do you wrong someday!!!
You can make the difference. Stand up to them. You Pastors are like the kids in the playground and the bully.
When the bully comes around you are nice because you are scarred, so you begin to brown nose.
But if that group of kids, stand up then they will scare the bully off.
Pastor Torres stood up, will someone else follow.
Things have got to change! Or we will be corrupt like the world!
FabianA:
Kick me out please i dare to you do it I spel how ever i fel licke it okey? okey.so please stop the rudeness we hav enough witht the GB.
Are their any Pastors who care out there? Does anybody care?
You know what the GB will do next? They will try to remove Pastor Torres for standing up to his convictions! That is vengeance!
Think about it people, the Men of God that we follow are not acting in godly ways...
We have GB members who touch women at the Headquarters inappropriately!
GB Members who have have committed fraud...
Others accussed of Adultery
Bishops who are caught in Adultery and never removed...
Just look at our Church and see what we are becoming!
God is Justice
You spell, just how you live your life. All messed up!
I bet you dont even go to church on time!!!
Just look at our church and you make the judgement! We are corrupt, no integrity and no fear of God!
Yes, we are good behind a pulpit but we dont live it!
Paz de Cristo hermano con esa boca alaba a Dios PEKADOR
God is Justice
I may be a sinner Yes! But I am saved by God's grace.
And because of that I show up to church to Praise God! I bet you dont even go to church!
Can someone please inform what the plantiffs will do next?
Well in my opinion they have done all they can do...
No thanks to people like God is Justice! People who dont show up to pray!
God is Justice,
I know who you are, dont think that you are anonymous.
I could describe you and discern you like a sinner but I wont because I dont want to hurt your feelings!!! Ay!!! Que lastima!
Sorry to say but this is far from over. They plaintiffs are filing an appeal. As advised by the Judge. Stay tuned folks this thing is far from over.
FYI I AM A MEMBER OF BISHOP TORRES CHURCH SO BAMM ON YOUR FACE FU NOW WHAT BRING IT ON DUDE
WE CARE
I know who you are also. If you really wanted to support Abel Torres, then go to church!
For the rest of you bloggers, know this. That to do nothing is a sin just as much as to do something.
We cant follow man blindy if they are clearly committ acts against God.
Think about this people. The GB committed fraud!
This is a thought out deliberate act. Not something that just happened but something that had been in the works since 2004 or 2005!
oh really? so you know who I am how scurry i have nothing to lose dude nothing come on do iti dare i aint scared fo you or nobody only God can shut me up
oh and one more thing i go to church every wednesday and sunday so bammm on your face now if you go to church then you wil know im there every single service
OMG im so scared u have no idea and i dont have to sing from up there so bam on your face
So if Pastor Torres realized what you said, like "FU". Then only God can shut you up? What if Pastor Torres asked that you refrain from cursing, would you obey him?
If yes, then you are a hypocrite because you said only God can shut you up.
If no, then you are a horrible member. Just like Texas! Say hi to your girl!!!
One of these days, i am going to go to your church just to shut you up!
I dont live too far, only a few hours away!
i'll be waiting for you so bammm in your cara face
God is Justice
I will leave you with this thought.
I dont even know who you are but I just said it to mess with you, to get you all puffed up. And you know what?
You gave me the information as to what church you go too... And on top of that you showed me that you are a carnal Christian...
A Fleshy one because, think about this... I controlled you through a blog! You let your emotions take over and you began to curse me and you no longer followed your convictions and the Holy Spirit.
What a Christian! You need to take a self-examination and repent.
Que tan espiritual eres!!! ha ha
Can you two immature boys take this somewhere else??
El Diablo se esta burlado de ti!
ptcrzr
Immature! If you are on this blog or even read it, you are immature! Again, what hypocrites! Just like the Assembly.
We look the part, dress the part, say the right things but we are all just hypocrites!
O hermano no te preocupes im just laughing lol i just think you are a bit retarde but not feelings hurt oh by the way i reall y dont care if you find out who i am because what ever i say i can say it to anybody if the GB comes and askes me to tell them what i think about them i sure will i dnt care so lol yeah actually i controlled you oh and by the way i never cursed if you know how to read you will find out its FO not FU and its a mispelled so BAM on your face hahahahahahah LOVE YA
God is Justice
What happened? Te gano el Diablo!
Yeah! Sure, FO and not FU. Whatever, cover your tail now!
Say hi to your girl! She likes me better! ha ha
No pero al parecer a ti si x que necesitas ayuda?
God is Justice
I will let you go...cause I know you get off at work right about now. Adios!
okay sure will te cuidas! =)
Brethren,
Praise the Lord. A UPC servant here to respond to some of the most unfortunate events taking place in your organization.
Having read all official court documents, the validity of the 2006 election was in fact valid, as ruled by the court, according to the AA constitution used at that respective convention. It is also unfortunate that the matters of the church came under the mercy of secular courts, thus the reason for the outcome and ruling of this particular case.
My brothers and sisters, our church is praying for each and every one of you, including both involved as plantiffs and defendants.
If I may be so bold, it is disgustful that activist groups for any given agenda such as abortion protesters, gay-rights activists, and political campaigns can all get together, and yet the Apostolic church cannot even do that. If my memory serves me correctly, Christ gave us a commandment, saying, "This is My commandment, that ye love one another as I have loved you. By this shall ALL MEN (saved and lost) know that ye are My disciples, if ye have love one toward another." This does not seem to be the case at the present time in this great assembly. What's worse, it's more of a reflection of the time when Christ was arrested and brought before the Sanhedrin for questioning. Christ propagated a doctrine of healing and reconciliation, while the Sanhedrin propagated a law of legalism and prejudicial politics.
Rev. Torres is a great man, and a well-respected preacher of the Gospel in our fellowship. It seems as though in his case, along with several others, might have taken on the role of what Literature would label a 'tragic hero.' I pray that God would send these men who stand up for integrity and justice in your assembly the strength to endure, and the courage to persevere for the church of the living God.
As for the members of the General Board, I fear for them, and pray that God would forgive them. We all may want vindication at this very moment, but when God steps into the picture, there won't be a prayer available for the unjust. Solomon did say, "When the wicked shall rule, the people shall mourn." However, David also declared, "Though sorrow may last through the night, behold, His joy cometh in the morning"
May God guard your hearts and bless your wonderful church.
Father, I thank you Jesus for your servants who have now been molded into fine gold. I thank you for the strength that you are imparting them, and I pray that you would continue to bless them, and their congregations with growth and prosperity. For your word says, "How beautiful are the feet of the them who bring tidings of Good News." I pray also that you forgive the unjust, the proud, and those would seek to bring factions of discord. These things I pray Father, in your wonderful Name Jesus, Amen.
God Bless You my Apostolic brethren.
Lucius.
towknee says We will stand up for what is right, not in our eyes but in the eyes of the Lord. If this requires a split, division or seperation, let it be done. Standing for pastor who still believe in righteousness
For the willows of the wind have blown and the mighty winds of heaven have cleansed the filthy air that was brougt about by the sins of law suers who mocked and defamed Gods chosen guardians of the storehouse. God will not be mocked for the time of a great and mighty purification to clean God church of the pestilance that was brought in by the mockers of the men God hath surely chosen on the day of the grand appointment. Victory is to the church. Validation is brought to Gods appointed keepers of the storehouse. This day I have surely spokened a word unto you.
We need a good young leader to run the AA.
Here's my candidate:
http://www.montenegroaz.com/campaignnews.html
A Mexican Obama!
John3:16
Thank you for the timely Word....
It is a shame to see so many of our own behave as if God is not in control. Why continue to inflict pain to the same body / the Church of God they once claimed to be a part of?
I continue to pray for healing and restoration. We don't have time for this. We have a great commandment and a great commission that are being neglected while many die every day without Christ.
A TODOS LOS PASTORES:
En la proxima eleccion piensa esto:
MI VOTO NO CUENTA!
HA! HA! HA! HA!
TO ALL PASTORS:
In the upcoming elections think about this:
MY VOTE DOES NOT COUNT!
LOL! LOL! LOL!
LA DIST.
If they must ratify, rectify and be now more specific- this current AA GB "the best ever" according to what the Gerente D. Sanchez claimed several times. They WILL change it, modify it and define it more clearly to their own whims n wants.
And WILL amend that infamous CID mess (sida) to the AA Constition. People, let me tell ya- IT (they) will parade and carry on as if they were working for el inFidel Castro!
fyi At least 1 of the current GB is "in it for the ride" $$$, y Gerente has inappropriately disparage and slander well-respected Bishops and honorable senior Pastors. I heard em for myself. Grieve it n LEAVE IT
We are from Midland Texas and attend the Assembly here, we have been here for 29 years, now that this is happening we don't know what is happening in our own church, it has been kept a secret, if someone knows the truth please let us know it. I will appreciate it alot, we need to stand together with the one that has the truth, and we will stand together. PLEASE LET US KNOW
Primo:
to keep things simple im gonna tell you this. in the 2006 elections some people were elected that shouldnt have been. they weren't really elected though. many votes were ingnored. the reason it was kept secret is because Pastor Torres didnt want to burden our church with this problem. All Pastor wants is to stand up for what is right. he saw what happend and couldnt keep it to himself because that would be just as bad as if he had participated in the "fixing" of the elections. after posting that comment you posted you will hear many different opinions. im going to tell you to believe whatever you want to believe, but keep in mind that you know your pastor and he has the best intentions.
To all AA Pastors / people of God,
One very LAST word!! Seek and ONLY follow the Lord Jesus Christ and His Spirit.
The truth will prevail! But do us ALL a favor- STOP FEEDING THE UGLY BEAST, by putting your love gifts / offerings & tithes, O I almost 4got
omgosh (those quotas they will miss too) into a more godly and more worthy non-profit organization. AA GB members will only get worse, if they keep getting approval (enable) by your $$$. Believe you me friends
That's the only way they will MIND!
Just a question primo have you been to church lately because every one there almost already knows.
i think primo is one of those that didnt know about anything, but saw what went on this sunday and is just realizing something happened.
ART TAFOYA, PLEASE HEAR THIS:
For quite some time now I have been wanting to write to and tell you this... tend to your flock brother. I am very concerned for the health of everyone of your members. You see what is happening to your own family and it is also affecting your church.
The bitterness that you carry daily is eating you up and it will continue to do so until your ministry and your calling have been completely evaporated. I understand that you feel there was a great injustice done to you and others but it's time to tend the sheep!
Brother, I have heard you preach some great messages and know that you have done many great things for the God but all that will be for naught if you don't let this go. You want to continue fighting the powers that be? So be it. But know this, you will be held accountable for every single member that God has placed in your hands. THEY ARE HURTING AND THEY NEED A PASTOR WHO CARES FOR THEM!!
If you no longer feel the need to love your church, let it go. Let someone who has a heart for them stand up to the call of God and complete what you will not be able to do.
I have listened to many of your flock and it is not too late. You could still win them over to you. They will love you and follow you if only you will listen. If you don't you will see the end of your ministry; lonely; bitter; finished.
THIS GOES FOR ALL YOU PASTORS WHO ARE IN THE SAME BITTER CIRCUMSTANCE
-one who cares
Jesus-lives for your information, I have been going to church for the past 29 years, here in Midland, and the only thing they kept on asking of us was to pray for the problems the pastor was having and that was it, that was all the information that was given to all of us at church, just pray and pray for the pastor but for what and yes I was at church sunday I personally asked one of the ministers to tell me what was going on. Thank you and God Bless you.
Sorry jesus-live it was for apostilic insider
IT'S NOT OVER, ITS ONLY JUST BEGUN.
This is my last post until the BEGINNING OF THE END. God Bless all.
Oh okay sorry. I was just wondering. Just a question I do not want you to take this sarcastically. Have you called the Pastor and asked him I am sure he would not mind telling you what is going on.
A los Pastores:
¡Salud!
Hermanos, es una tragedia lo que paso en la corte hoy, (3/10/08) por esta razón:
La Constitución que dijo el juez ahora, ‘tenia mas hoyos que el queso suizo,’ es la Constitución que UD han aprobado.
La primera Constitución fue escrita por el Hno. Bernardo Hernández, un hombre muy preparado en letra que tomo estudios con la iglesia Bautista. Y cuando el se bautizo según la doctrina Apostólica, ya venia preparado para hacer ese trabajo.
Todo estaba bien, y las elecciones se conducÃan según la Palabra de Dios como fue electo MatÃas después de la caÃda de Judas.
Fue cuando entro EfraÃn Valverde e instituyeron la calificadora que se nombra ‘descalificadora’ porque en realidad descalifica los que fueron electos por voto de Pastores.
Luego entro MartÃn del Campo con la CID., y esto es lo que freno al juez en su decisión de que las elecciones en Long Beach fueron cometidas en fraude, porque UD aprobó el CID con su voto.
Yo le diré a todos UD que no hay ninguno en toda la Asamblea que tenga sabidurÃa de Dios y la capacidad académica y que este preparado para escribir una Constitución nueva. No hay nadie.
La razón que digo esto, es porque se tiene que considerar los Evangelios, y el libro de Deuteronomio, las reglas Parlamentarias y los By-Laws que son requisitos del Gobierno Estatal. Esto tiene que incluir derechos para las mujeres como parte de la membresÃa.
Y ahora....
¿Cómo se van a congregar estos dos partidos que están uno contra el otro?
¿Cómo van a estar juntos en convenciones y reuniones ministeriales?
Mucho menos estarán juntos para componer la Constitución. Esto puede causar una explosión dentro de la Asamblea porque es posible que tome años para arreglar la Constitución que sea aceptable al juez.
¿SabÃa UD que el Presidente Daniel Sánchez y su cuñado, Arturo Espinosa huyeron al paÃs de Chile en S.A., para no estar presentes ni representar a la Asamblea en la corte? Esto indica la falta de responsabilidad y carácter cristiano de parte de Daniel Sánchez como el indicado representante de la Asamblea Apostólica frente de la corte.
¿Huyo para Chile porque temÃa ser enjuiciado? Hermanos, le diré, estamos bien atrasados con este Presidente.
Analyst,
It is truly sad to see the current state of affairs in The Assembly.
However we allow these things to happen when we are scared to speak up for fear of being labeled a rebel.
And when you have Men in positions of power who answer to no one. And Bishops and Pastors who sweep a fellow Pastors sins under the rug and just move him to another District having never dealt with the cause and root of his sin.
It all start with one thing and one thing alone. Many individuals who are in positions of leadership were not called by God nor annointed by him. Rather they were appointed by a friend or relative.
It is like a domino effect. You start off flawed and the mess gets bigger and bigger.
And now we are seeing the results of many many years of Nepotism and Cronyism.
Apostolic_insider, thank you God Bless you I do wish you the best from all of us and the best blessings from God.
I think that no matter what side won or lost on Monday, we actualy all lost.
The present board will fill more powerfull, specialy Eddie, Sam and Bro. Dan. because the judge sided with them. And may retaliate against the ones who tried to make things right.
I just hope that the IRS doesn't get involved in this mess, becasue if they look into the GB members income taxes filling, I'll bet my last "peso" that they don't report all the income and "offerings" they receive.
If they get caught not reporting this income, God have mercy on them,
that would be tax evation, and the IRS doesn't like that.
Another reason we all loose is becaue members have and will continue to loose confidence in the organization, and as it is written
"Por averce multiplicado la maldad la caridad de muchos se enfriara"
I for one pray for a uniteed AA but unfortunately, I don't think it will happen.
That is the reason so many Men of God who are truly called to Ministry end up leaving the Cosa Nostra Mafia.......I mean The Assembly.
We are supposed to have freedom in Christ to do the work of The Lord and Love and reach souls.
Way too often we get caught up in legalism and politics and we stick to hanging out amongst ourselves like the Amish that we never impact our community for God.
It is sad to see all the hype and promotion put out for a Revival or concert etc.... Then you show up and it's nothing but Apos.
Not ONE Soul amongst us at these events.
What are we really doing ?
Im out of here enough is enough.
I am out of The Assembly.
There are so many other churches that are truly doing something.
Independant Apostolic churches as well as UPC.
Im leaving the Cosa Nostra.
Ciao
Sam,
Do you really think that anyone who leaves the Assembly is really losing or quitting anything great ?
REALLY ?
How sad that you feel that way.
I actually will be better off putting my talents and abilities to work where they will be appreciated.
There are alot of souls out there to win for God and The Assembly is not doing a very good job of " Reaching the lost at any cost. "
So I actually WIN my friend I am jumping off of a sinking ship and onto dry land wher there is a harvest of souls to reap.
90% of pastors are totally discouraged with this present administration. The Assembly has decreased in numbers in the year 2000 85000 members in the USA now is 70000.
En este año la población de los Estados
Unidos ascendió a 300 millones de habitantes.
Pero lo más importante para nosotros es el factor
que en el 2005, los hispanos reportaron una
población de 42.9 millones. Se calcula que
para el 2010 la población hispana ascenderá a
49.8 millones y un 15% de hispanos hablarán
Inglés solamente.
Sam
Do you actually realize what happened yesterday?
The judge knew the election was more of a selection, but explained that the constitution allows it to be. The GB did not win because they had the ethical/spiritual right to rig the elections. The Plaintiffs lost because the constitution does not stop disingenuous men from disqualifying the men God chooses by way of an overwhelming vote of the Pastors.
Our organization is in for some tumultuous times.
Keep in mind, God will not be mocked. He will resolve the issue of the unethical leaders. When he does, we will not be laughing at you as you are doing today. We will be praying for God to have mercy on you.
Here are a couple quotes to ponder . . .
John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton:
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
William Pitt:
"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it"
Unknown:
“There are none so blind as those, that will not see”
I know exactly what happend yesterday.
Bishops Sam Valverde, Abel Aguilar, Daniel Sanchez, Leo Maffey, Victor Prado, Edward Pacheco WERE JUSTIFIED.
They were tried and JUSTIFIED.
Our prayers were answered. We will move on. I'm glad all you losers will be moving on to other churches.
You couldn't win souls here and you wont win souls there. Other churches will be gaining a bunch of whining, crying, worthless, quiting, no good for nothing, BENCH WARMERS.
Sam,
How sad that you see things that way.
Well if your trying to play devils advocate and get people riled up it wont work with me.
I am so glad that my eyes are fixed upon The Saviour and not on Men and their Assemblies, Organizations and Titles.
That is a sad way to live.
So you feel Victorious ? Did anyone really win ?
TO: SAM
You forgot KING TACO.
It is a matter of time before Girl Friday talks.
Well there goes round 1.
But I really do not see any winners.
The AA loses members, life-long supporting pastors, and "some" credibility in the public spectrum.
The AA is lucky it is mostly insignificant, and not many people care or recognize it, so it does have the chance to move on from this, and hopefully remake its public image.
But I really do not see any winners, the system will not change, the GB will be emboldened by this, and spin it as they choose, and the Plaintiffs will or at least should simply walk away. If they stay, they will have to spin it in a way that they remain with some influence, and not be ushered to the hinterlands of influence.
In the process, it is the people who are left with the crap to pick up, and heal a near mortal wound to the AA.
I say people, because th GB will never recognize it as so, to do so would be to give this whole fiasco any (if little) merit.
Is anyone aware that Sanchez and his brother-in-law, Arturo Espinosa ran away to Chile during the time of the court date?
Probably afraid of being indited. It shows his cowardice and lack of character in that he was not even in the country when the Assembly was before the court.
He did like Pacheco did during the car scam. Is this a coincidence? They chose Chile??? Does anyone know if Chile has no extradition with the U.S.?
Hey Analyst, Analyze this! How can Bishop President Sanchez and Bishop Espinoza be indicted by a civilian lawsuit? Its civil. Are you so ignorant that you don't know that no one goes to jail or indicted on a civilian lawsuit?
Like someone said earlier, you bloggers watch too much Perry Mason and CSI.
Have fun at your new churches. There is a harvest about to be harvested in the apostolic work.
Sam,
you mentioned Perry Mason ?
Dang dude how old are you ?
I had to look that up on wikipedia just to know what you were talking about.
You have to be an old timer but from the way you blog and the rude and bitter comments you post it sounds like you are very inmature for your old age.
Your age is showing Mr Sam
Im surprised you know how to log onto a computer.
Perry Mason
Hno. Daniel Sanchez,
Como hija de pastor, siempre ore por usted que Dios le diera fuersa para pasar este trago tan amargo. Sabemos que las authoridades son puestas por Dios y sabemos que las debemos respetar y no levantar un dedo contra el ungido de Dios. Recuerde "Todo lo puedo en Cristo quien me fortalece: Filipenses 4:13
shadows said
Remember Israel and its kings.
all guilty of association. Do we also because of jealousy have to be guilty because of association. The Apostle Paul was presented before tribunals and also appealed his case and lost, but this did not justify his accusers.
I’ve been checking out this blog for quiet a while… and it’s really interesting about what we have to say about the AA… This is an amazing way to say what we got to say about AA, and I am FOR it! Now, I got a lot to say, things that I personally experience and well seen as well. I was born in raise in church, to be more specific the church I grew up in was FOUNTAIN OF TRUTH CHURCH (FTC) and boy that church was pretty cool (so I thought) 19 years going that church…! You can pretty much say that I knew everyone, everyone that came in new and everyone that step out to be a pastor or just left…! So stay tune because it will take a while to put everything in writing… let just say FTC is not your typical everyday church… (Sometimes I felt like I was in a modeling/fashion show with all the flashy dresses or cars lol!)
Wow. The ignorance here is astounding. I think that many of you are allowing your utter hatred toward our church leadership to cloud your judgment and/or your analytical skills.
Bishop Espinoza is not running from anybody. He's doing his job as the director of Foreign Missions. He's currently attending a national convention in Chile, as well he should. He was not required to attend the court hearing, as he was represented by counsel. Are you guys that naive and ignorant or do you simply choose to make assertions without merit? He also can't be indicted in a civil case, as someone already mentioned. Someone also keeps mentioning something in the lines of the IRS auditing our Assembly as a result of this lawsuit. This is utterly ridiculous and I shouldn't even mention it, but I know that there are some here that really do believe that there is a chance that this can happen. Sorry, it ain't gonna happen. This lawsuit has nothing to do with the church's finances. Not even close.
It's actually quite funny to me that most of you here think that this whole election issue is so devestating to our church. You people act like this is Armageddon.
Look around you. Christianity as a whole is being attacked by the enemy like we've never seen before. Our beloved Assembly is but a blip in the radar screen. We're just a rounding error, that's it. Oprah gets more people to watch her show than our Assembly as a whole gets on any given Sunday. That's sad but is reality.
Having said that, most of you here are acting like our Assembly is the only organization with issues. Like I said before, look around you. We're living in a day and age when preachers and even gospel singers are divorcing their spouses at alarming rates (Fred Hammond, Yolanda Adams, Tonex, Paula White, Bynum, Noel Jones, Jamal Bryant, etc), preachers and singers are being audited by the IRS and investigated by Congress(Yolanda Adams, Joyce Meyer, Creflo Dollar, Paula White, Benny Hinn, etc), preachers living in adultery (way too many to list), ministry leaders having sex with gay escorts (Ted Haggard), pastors accused of impregnating a 17-yr old (Dr. Jamal Bryant), and I could go on and on.
And yet most of you here readily discredit, criticize, embarrass and slander our church leaders because someone got 2 votes and shouldn't have been voted in??? are you serious???? even the most critical of you can at least admit that the reaction to the "alleged" election fraud was waaaaay over the top and unnecessary.
I'd rather be dealing with this issue in our little Assembly then with all the junk I mentioned above.
apoww08
where have you been??? What you just mentioned above is happening in the Assembly also!!!
The only difference is that our leaders are not as highly publicized as the outside world!
Whether you are talking about sex scandals or fraud, its all the same. It was done because of lust for power, position and money!
"fabian"
Your right... a lot of things has been happening to the AA and to the leaders… but no one had the guts to say what was right or wrong because we never had a voice we just did what was told. But now that we have this blog we speak of what we see and what we stand by. O and one thing Bro. Tafoya was not the right person to say anything about this election because the AZ district was under his supervision for about a decade and he didn’t do a good job you can say. It was all family affairs with him to. (Pastor Espino only got his pastor-ship because of Tafoya) And in every az district service who started the service all the time ESPINO…! Come on now. Arizona is growing and how many churches are they in AZ or should I say Tucson- 3! Only 3 apostolic churches of a population of 1 million!
apoww08,
The trinos have bigger problems other than sin and following the flesh.
Like following the man made doctrine of the trinity.
The prosperity doctrine.
The we are little God's doctrine.
We are all sinners but they need to get their doctrine right first.
Enrique, now I know why a while back they called you enriqueta. You say you are gone, but like the little vieja you come back for more. Yes I barely learned to use a computer.
But you should learn to use your bible. Have you read it lately? Because if you did, there are some scriptures that speak against causing divisions in the church.
You are what the bible calls a
GOSSIPER.
to: think_peace
by AA standards 3 churches in tucson,az for 1mill population is great!!!,
can anybody tell me how many churches does L.A. district have in the downtown or southcentral L.A. area???????
Sam,
Who's the vieja getting all upset ?
Wow you are defintely sensitive about your age.
Its okay brother dont get mad.
You had your time dont hate cause your older now.
Come back for more what ?
More information on whats going on in The Assembly sure I do.
Why not it's a free country and an open blog.
Or is this blog only for the elect few.
You may not agree with what I have to say but I think you just showed how weak and sensitive you really are.
Its okay to be old just dont lose your sense of humor my goodness !
Ummm... Jesse sorry tp burst your bubble but three churches isnt great! Let me brake it down, 1st church of tucson lets just say they probably have 250 memebers (its classify as the big church) 2nd church of tucson i think 100-120 o and we cant forget the 3rd of tucson we only 25 members! I am not talking bad about TUCSON but i am just saying if Bro. Tafoya would of work hard Tucson would be full of AA churches... the only reason some one from the az district would contact the 2nd and 3rd (nogales too) is to get the "quotas" cuz we dont want to miss a payment on Bro. Tafoya Escalade (maybe he needs another set of rims!)
I may old, but I am wise. You bloggers, with all your secular humanistic ways, were humbled in this lawsuit.
I prayed fervently and the Lord heard my prayers.
It feels great to be JUSTIFIED.
How does it feel to be on the losing side?
Heres a question folks
If a Pastor is bringing in tithes after paying the tithe of tithes to The Assembly about 30K a month.
Should he take in a salary that allows him to live at or a little bit above the lifestyle that the majority of his congregation lives.
Or is it okay for him to take a huge salary that is five to six times what his flock makes just because he has a large congregation ?
He takes about 12K in Salary.
What about social assistance.
What about helping the poor ?
Sam,
I didnt mean to offend you about your age.
I just have a twisted sense of humor that not everyone gets.
But seriously did you really win ?
Did you really win when the Dishonorable GB manipulated and rigged an election and Sanchez himself swept his infidelity to his wife under the rug ?
But what do you expect when the GB is made up of ex cholos and pachucos or ex machista vaquero quebradita cowboys.
You get what you get.
Amen Bro.! Enrique... I know alot of pastor with little churches that are working part time to make ends meet at home or to just get health insurance!! They should donate that money some where else... not some rims lol!
Thats why I am gone.
And NO I dont mean gone from the BLog Sam.
Gone from The Assembly.
My Pastor Mauro Pereyra is an awesome Man of God but I cannot stay in this cult.And continue contributing my tithes to such thieves and crooks.
We WON, we APOSTOLICS are JUSTIFIED.
We WON.
We are VICTORIOUS!
Mauro Pereya? LOL Nice try. You bloggers didn't have the nerve to protest. You didn't have the nerve to stand up for your convictions. Now we are supposed to think you have the nerve to name your pastor? LOL
We did a study of these bloggers. Our research revealed that most of you bloggers don't even go to church on a committed basis. You also have a propensity to be "Do Nothings". But you are vocal, as long as your identity is held in secret.
Think Peace,
It is truly sad to see Men like them in positions that should be held by those with a heart after God's not mammon.
And by cult I am not referring to The Apostolic Doctrine.
I will hold that dear no matter wher I go.
ACTS 2:38 is the way of Salvation.
By cult I mean the manipulation, the legalism, the nepotism.
No thanks I have had enough !
Sam:
You talk like your the only one going to make it to heaven
Sam,
What ? Does my pastor only have two members that you would single me out by my pastors name ?
You really are dumb.
And do you really think my name is enrique ?
I seriously doubt that your name is Sam.
You probably have three to five user names in here.
And you probably log in using others ones to answer or back yor previous posts up.
your good for a laugh at least.
sam, i do go to church. use to go to a AA one but decided to leave that and just go to another church. i am better off having a relationship with God and not fighting or proclaming any religion!
Okay, Okay,
Let me tell you my take now.
It is our nature to try to blame fault. I agree with the blogmaster, the people that are to blame for this situation are all those men that voted in this CID document. The Bible does not dictate that we follow blindly, it requires us to test God and spirits. Yet we (our Assembly) teach that if we speak up we are rebellious and and divisive unless you are Baldemar Rodriguez or Arthur Tafoya, in which case you are messengers of God and all others are rebellious against them.
As the judge noted. The constitution is full of holes. This is the same constitution that B. Rodriguez, A. Tafoya, D. Solomon et al., pledged their oath to a few years back. It was this same constitution that B. Rodriguez and A. Tafoya used to run out pastors (even family) out of their districts.
At that time they touted this constitution as a highly recognized model for all religious organizations. Why? Because is served their purpose to control manipulate and intimidate their followers.
It looks like that this same constitution came back and took a big ol' bite out of their backsides. And now in their eyes, it is now unfair, unjust, ungodly and reprehensible.
How about you go back and tell those brothers that this constitution that you used against them was unfair and full of holes, what you did to them was unjust, ungodly and reprehensible.
That would be a good start.
They let their churches lapse. What mattered to them was position, nevermind that God granted them to be shepards of flocks. They wanted worldy recognition, titles, salaries etc. Forget the souls!
So now what? Do you apologize? Do you pick up your toys and go play in another sandbox?
JC
To: think_peace
I totally agree with your opinion
My point is that in our AA no one is held accountable, if a pastor or bishop has held the position for years at what point does anybody evaluate his performance?
Now I’m defending bro.Tafoya,
But didn’t his wife worked in Real Estate?
Yes Enrique, or is it Little Eddie?
Start denying it now. LOL LOL
It feels good to be JUSTIFIED!
JUSTIFIED as in We, the apostolic church, WON!
OUR prayers were answered. Deal with it. God is on the side of his church and on the side of the general board.
VICTORY!
Sam:
I don't think God chooses sides...
God doesn't choose sides? You are right. Thats because its impossible for God to stand with sin and therefore side with sin and sinful acts. This is why God made sure the general board was VICTORIOUS.
To side with the plaintiffs would be to side with error and sin.
Dude, you are way too closed minded.
After extensive research, I found something that totally describes all you secular humanistic blogger after the final judgement of this lawsuit.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uvqGdgdZmIw&feature=related
That pretty much describes all you secular humanistic bloggers.
Jesse… keep on defending Bro. Tafoya all power to you and if she did (past tense) worked in a Real Estate business good for her! The only reason I brought Bro. Tafoya in this was because it was not his place to say anything about the election he is just like them (Board of AA). He should have checked his district before saying anything. About the comment of the fancy car- why does he or anyone in the AA have to expose themselves in such flashy way… is just saying “look what your tithes bought me ” but yet we preach about not loving this world or anything of it because we aren’t from here.! What really gets to me is that we have these new up-coming pastors that leave their established careers (jobs) to become a pastor (not for the title but because they love God and they love the souls) and they can’t focus into bringing new souls because these new pastor are so worried about how to put food on the table but yet the District Bishop can enjoy his fancy car… There are so many pastors that can’t even afford health insurance for their family because they have a payroll of 350 a week… But yet… these pastor have to make the “quotas” for the district or else- here Bro. Tafoya calling someone for the “quotas” but doesn’t even bother to ask him how is everything! Spread the love… have integrity, be humble, help a pastor out!
To: think_peace
please don't get me wrong
i'm not defending anyone i'm simply asking if the wives info was true.
in the L.A. district we have the same situation a few churches with more than 300 members,pastors collecting 3-4 thousand a month,medical ins,car included,vacations,annual pastor's day even if he doesn't deserve it..you know the works
but, then you have the majority of the pastors that are struggling just to pay the rent,you know the rest..but in the monthly pastor's meetings most of the time is spent reminding the pastors not to forget to send in their checks otherwise you'll be getting a visit from one of the Board Members
my question is what does a local pastor receive in return for all this? what kind of support if any does he get?
to: Porq
Amen to your post!!!
For those of you who were nit picking about the fact that Sanchez couldn’t be indicted because it was a civil case, I KNOW THAT.
I was just being facetious, but trying to point out that his priority should have been that his General Board was in court, and he chose rather to be out of the country during that time. He abandoned them to whatever the outcome.
I was pointing out his lack of responsibility because he had no business in Chile, if Arturo Espinosa is Secretary of Missions, well, maybe he needed to be there, but Sanchez should have been with his Board.
This equates to a coach going to another ball game and leaving his team to play against a strong opponent without him being with them.
For those of you who keep saying VICTORY, VICTORY, VICTORY, it just shows that you are self centered, and you have no empathy or concern for those who are the victims of this situation between Board and former Board.
The membership of the Assembly has suffered a great blow, and if all you can do is gloat, you are truly not of God.
For Baldemar, Salomon, Arrellano and the members of the active Board who have two (2) remaining years to go, what the future holds for them inside the Assembly, in the meetings and conventions, is that when they get together in any said meeting, whoever has the power of the podium will say, “let’s pray for these brothers and rebuke the devil out of them because they are not with us.” This is what is in store for these guys.
This, my brethren, is NOT VICTORY, this is a renting, a tearing asunder of a church whose mission it is to bring souls to the Lord.
How can we bring souls to the Kingdom when we cannot stand each other inside the church?
Do we want to expose new converts to anger, hatred, manipulation and control? Is this how we want them to see Christ in us?
The big joke is on all of us. We are ALL losers here.
These men will not back down.
We will continue to have the same tug-of-war for power and control.
PRAISE THE LORD APOSTOLIC ASSEMBLY WE SHOULD BE PRAISING NOT SUING, UNITE NOT DIVIDE, LOVE NOT HATE,
WHAT ARE WE DOING WITH ALL THIS MESS ON THE INTERNET?
I believe back in the day of the apostles not all agreed among themselves on all subjects, yet we do not see them biting their heads off each chance they got. We need to learn that our leaders are put by God and we should respect their decisions even If its against our opinion or what we think is best for us. We are considered the body of Christ and what are we doing biting our own heads -- off just because we merely dont agree with the elections. I believe God had shown us that we need to unite and if the General Board was wrong, then the court would have said so, and God will take care of that also we need to let God be judge and look at ourselves so we can have a clean outfit when he comes for his church. Lets leave it at this behind and pray that we are found worthy of entering the gates of Heaven when he comes for his church. Lets not worry about how the president became president, but pray that God be with him give him strength and patience to go through this ordeal, and show him Gods plans for his church that is our responsibility.
God Bless All!!!
Yrs bk when the northwest texas district was el Distrito Oeste de Texas Hno Torres was also bishop yes way bk in the day. We used to have district conventions in Carlsbad New Mexico. We had elections then and the Jovenes had elected a young man by the last name of Reyes to be District president for the youth, but bro Torres took it upon himself to override that and Named bro Phillip Marroquin president for the Jovenes, no one new bro Phil and he was new to the District he had recently moved to west Texas from Houston and wa-lah he is bro Torres brother in law. Oh but it was okay for him to do it, but now hes throwing a tantrum when things dont go his way. Praise the Lord bros. Let God lead and things will go how they should. Lets trust Gods decisions and not what we think is right or wrong!!!!!!!!!
ApostolicAnalyst,
I agree with some of your opinions, however in regards to your following comment,
"This equates to a coach going to another ball game and leaving his team to play against a strong opponent without him being with them."
I will remind you that the game was/is infact in Chile. They were supporting the work and missionaries in that country. Had they stayed, then your analogy would be correct.
This lawsuit is not the Lords work but rather a distraction.
How sad that now so many people are coming out of the woodwork! The blog is exploding with people we hadn’t heard from before. Where were you when we were asking for support, where? Little kids and some supposedly adults wait to see who’s gonna win and then they make up your minds what side they were on. NOW everyone has something to say, thanks a lot, it’s a little late. Or you may still have an opportunity, in the second phase since there will be an appeal. Will you stand up and be heard this time around, and perhaps vindicate yourself? Will you?
To all who have sided with Sammy earlier but later went to church and prayed and repented and asked Bro. A. Torres for forgiveness on this same blog. What happened? You’re back to your old ways, so you‘re going to go with who you think are the “winners“. That’s being a wishy washy person and that’s the worst kind, you‘re neither hot or cold. Worse than Sammy, even, and that’s scraping the bottom of the barrel, but at least he’s a continual fool and proud of it. Look at how he went to “End Times” and professed to have been reformed, rebooted, redone or what have you, and then in the same breath he insults and generally badmouths his brothers and sisters in Christ. You need to have convictions one way or the other. Who cares that you know who so-and-so is, or how they serve God, at least there are some who have remained steadfast in their beliefs and convictions throughout all this. As long as God knows who we are and what is in our hearts that’s what counts. He‘s the judge, so watch out and quit trying to hone in on his job, “lest ye be judged” . Why don’t you get up and carry a cross? Why don’t you stand up for something instead of zigzagging back and forth. You can go to church every day of the week, day and night, but if you don’t believe and you don’t have convictions and pray that you change for the better just a little each time it doesn’t do you any good. Take care, the Lord is watching, listening and taking notes on you and me.
Thank you Bro. “Lucius” for a well written letter. It’s a real shame that concerned persons outside our organization are seeing the horrible mess we are in and reading all the idiotic and untruths some people write and make up and they feel God’s need to send us words of encouragement because of what our leaders, YES - our leaders with their pride, arrogance and their hunger for power have led us into. Thanks again Brother, we need your unbiased views and most importantly your prayers. God Bless.
Apostolic Blood
"Let God lead and things will go how they should. Lets trust Gods decisions and not what we think is right or wrong!!!!!!!!!"????
That's the problem, God's decisions were overridden by the GB.
I believe back in the day of the apostles . . . Acts 15:2
BTW, the judge only said the Qualifying Board not the GB has unlimited power to disqualify the candidates that God chooses by the casting of votes. Remember God gave us free will. The QB abused of that free will to say ‘Not THY will, but OUR will be done.'
I hope the Pastorate of the AA will recognize the difference between the judge not invalidating the election because the weak constitution was abused and the GB winning because they were right.
Either the next convention will be flooded with Pastors demanding a change to the election process or you will see the same board members – or their relatives holding on to the high paying GB positions.
To : jesse
about the Sister Tafoya... I think she went to real estate school but cant tell you if she made any transaction witht the residential market... plus she had to be really good at real estate to make alot of money because i know the residential market is down in PHX (I work in a commercial/residential co.)
But anyways... Jesse I am not trying to become a enemy with you I was just trying to simplify a point! Which was... "what gave the right for Bro. Tafoya to say something about the elections if he is just a crook as them" all he wanted to do is get reconized because he wasnt going to be the District Bishop for AZ (thank God)
But again, i agree with you on the this part "what does a local pastor receive in return for all this? what kind of support if any does he get?" A pastor gets nothing...! Sometimes i feel like this AA Board is just like the "Democratic Party" they take advantage of the Lower Class Citizens! But yet they say that they will try to fix things... Bro. Sam Valverde is the same!
To Apostolic Blood... thats what Valverde does in his church- its all about favoritism. His son Tim Valverde, probably bumped his head one morning and decided to become a minister so what does Dad do? He makes sure he gets every credit in church every position in church so ppl can see that he is doing something right... few months later he is called to be deacon! Wow so quick! But what happens to all these motivated youth that want to get a chance to become a minister (not for the title)?
I'm not going to tolerate you bloggers bashing Obispo Sam Valverde and his family. How shameful for you to drag his son into this. Timothy is a very talented young man and has a passion for dealing with souls.
Now you mock Tim's ministry? He's been a big, BIG BLESSING to the local kingdom of God. He's won souls. How many souls have you blogger won to the Lord? Probably ZERO.
Who would want to come to the Lord with your secular humanistic attitudes. Its bad enough you bloggers sided with the devils that tried to over-rule God Elect with this frivilous lawsuit.
Sanchez and Espinnos did not run away people.. geez..
this was a simple civil suite, nothing more.
No one would everge arrested, no one would serve jail time, under ANY circumsatnce.
You people see too many court room dramas...
I hope everyone can see that I have no bias... or malice towards either party..
i really dont.
but if i recall correctly allow me to "cliff note" the outcome of the courts decision...
it merely said, we cannot render judgement, becuase your own Constitution (Corporate manifesto, by-laws, etc) is either silent or weak int he areas of elections.
in other words, our inability to draft a proper document to govern our AA (corporation)has placed us in the situation we are in. The cour decided to stay mum on the issue, and rather threw it back into our own court to decide.
My analysis: It doesn't justify either party, rather says, you made this bed now lie in it...
thi goes to my comment many moons ago. We are lead by uneducated unqualified people (regardless of the nature of their intentions).. This is not a negative critique, but now even the court has agreed with this comment. We are in the condition that we are in, becuase of the leadership we have supported.
Garbage in, garbage out.
Sam, you tell me how many souls Timo has won, than tell me how many Souls has Timo damaged for having a self center mind. Sam tell me, would Timo be so blessed with his company if his Dad wouldnt be a influence in the AA! You tell me how many souls have you won! Let me tell you something SAM Bishop Sam Valverde may be a good preacher but his family can be so cruel!
TO ITS NOT OVER TILL ITS OVER
Why are we trying to say who was right who was wrong let the Lord do that thats why he has the court systems here to help with that!!
You dont know what plans God has for his church like God does. So quit trying to be Judge.
Cruel? How? Timo has won some 8 to 11 souls to the Lord. His companys success has nothing to do with his father's position in the church.
Timo and Sammy are future pastors. Their family has been a blessing to the church. Why do you think we have a church of over 2,500 members? FTC will be the first Mega Church in the apostolic faith.
You lost your lawsuit, it doens't mean you have to be bitter about Obispo Valverde's family.
The plaintiff and the defendants play the game. Don't be upset because the defendants play it better.
Sam...
Humanistic Secularism is not evil or bad in itself.
Like all things, some good can be found in everything when taken in moderation.
Some humanistic secularism would of done us a world of good when the Constitution was drafted. It will do us a world of good when it is re-written/amended, or at least I hope (fingers crossed but expected to be let down) the GB will have the wisdom to rewrite that entire joke of a document, and close any loopholes, and actually give the AA a proper governing document.
Again, i doubt it, because theyw ould never ask outside council from us humanistic secualarist chrsitians who actually execut such document in our every day lives for our profession.. lol
the AA is hindered by extreme spiritualiem, in its day-to-day operations.
we fail to plan, budget, and forecast, and rely on spiritualistic prayers, chants, and rituals.
No people, if you only average a collection of 20, you can not spend 35.. LOL.. no matter how much you pray, or fast, numbers are numbers.. lol, learn to budget to 20, and make a plan and execute it to grow to 35... lol
sorry.. just using an overall example....
LOL Sam your funny! FTC yea a church with 2,500 member that will be split in half cuz the spanish congregation cant get along with the english congregation! Spanish people in the church always talk about the english.. why cuz like i said earlier, its a fashion show lets see who has the best shoes and dress or suit... Pastor preachin about short hair, nails and short skirts...! is english congregation is fool of that... not to mention the lil tortilla that they wear and they want to call it a "Velo". Sammy and Timo Future Pastor well all power to them, that will be your next bishop that will be in the AA.!
Uh, Sam, news break for ya, the Valverdes are very cruel. They befriend you and once you have nothing to offer they leave you by the wayside.
The Valverdes treat most of their members quite well because after all, it's the members who help pay their salaries, so they understand customer service must be top notch. But on a social level, do NOT get on their bad side or they will run your name through the mud or just make a joke out of you in private. Examples:
The aguilars
The tafoyas
The arellanos
The espinozas
Sanchez
The meza's
Baldemar Rodriguez.
Many of 'lil Sammie's friends and their parents
The list goes on. I am not making this up. I stopped hanging out with them because I felt really uncomfortable of how they would laugh at these people and talk so much about them and then in front of them show them reverence and pretend to be friends. It was an ugly feeling, I am not making this up as God is my witness.
Apostolic Blood, please don't feel bad because Arreola didn't come out as Bishop in the Northwest Texas District there were constitutional reasons for that decision. Pastor Abel Torres didn't make that call the GB did. Sorry!!
thank you frijol! Personally i know this family for more than 20 years! been to thier house, from the old one all they way to their have a million mantion (thank you for thiting)! and its true what frijol just said very true! You do something wrong and boy get ready to get critizized! Man i have so much more to say about them, but let just God deal with that...
CHAIRMAN_MAO
The constitution ,bylaws, was created with the GB in mind, to protect the GB it doesn't cover the rights of the pastors or membership.Its an ideal instrument to destroy people your votes etc.
The Valverde's are not like that. Why must you continue to spread lies and gossip? It sounds like you are bitter people who used to come to our church. You probably didn't make it around all the bases. All FTC asks is that you be faithful in all aspects of your Christian walk.
But it seems as both of you have a deep rooted issue. I'll keep you in my prayers and ask the Lord to forgive you and give you peace in your heart.
Are you all serious??? Who really cares? I have been in this way too long to let any lawsuit come between what really matters.
Justice will not prevail unless we ALL go back to basics. Times have changed and I do agree, we are lead by a bunch of uneducated leaders, however, some are sensitive to Gods spirit, others are not!
So what do we do from here? Todos a su propia iglesia and work it! So much to be done, so little time, no matter what our opinion is of the current GB or past, they will do what they want to do! That's the way it is! Accept it or Leave!
Sam Get to know valverde's very good... True story, Ryan plays the drums at FTC church i dont know how many times he has left the church and has come back and what he still plays the drums wow (ryan is related to Bro. Sam) but yet some one not related to Bro. Sam cant play the drums or another instrument if they leave church! why cuz he will cast you down... !
Sam i dare u to make a smart move with the Valverde's and i will love to hear back from you once you do something bad with them!
Ryan is not the only one who plays the drums. You make it seem as if he's the only one. There are two brothers that share in playing. I wont mention their names, but if you reaaly know FTC, then you know who they are.
Ryan was restored. Dont hate on Pastor because he helped Ryan back from his sins.
If we was as restored as you were at End Times, well we've already been through that one.
Look apostolic insider you dont know as much as you think you do cause I didnt Want arreola as bishop, so dont put words in my mouth. The only thing I still insist on that the leaders that are there, were put there and even though the assembly was taken to court there was nothing done that will remove them so eat your heart out!!!!
Some food for thought:
How could the AA continue to remain cohesive after the judge himself (a non spiritual authority) declared that the election and the actions of the GB were unethical, nevertheless legal according to an unstable and inconsistent constitution? Can anyone (Apostolic or pagan) deny the misrepresentation of the GB and the doctored election, needless to say the significant amount of unease during any discussion of the business aspect of the AA? How could the laity rely on the integrity of those who are in office? These are some key questions that our assemblies would like some answers to...
lucious...
thats an easy one.. its called spin control...
you can spin the judge's ruling to your favor, regardless of which side you are one.
defendents will say: see he threw it out, I am in the right
Plaintiffs will say: he criticized the document and the process and was an unbias 3rd party
in the end, without a mandate, nothing changes, and the GB has no reason to act or change. In doing so, it would be recognizing its fault, and justify them in the court of public opinion in the eyes of the general AA populace.
I don't see them making any such move, or even making an announcement, this will be another skeleton bone to be thrown in a full to capacity closet in our history...
remember, the system is not made for improvement, it is made for self preservation...
Here's a prime example of how unethical, and even more important, how anti-biblical of some of our so-called pastors are.
Arreola: here's a man who's wife is deceased, has been an anciano for his particular district, and what do you know...he weds a divorced woman whose first husband is still breathing. I think the Lord made it quite clear on the issues of divorce and the sanctity of marriage. This man should not even be a Pastor according to the Word of God, much less in ministry, but there again in an inconsistency of the AA constitution. For all I know, he's no better than the liar or the adulterer on Young and the Restless.
Goodnight, if all the brethren who were put on prueba years ago for an allotment of time came back to sue for wrongful and hypocritical punishment, this organization would be so sifted that it would be unable to sustain all litigation and remain soundly intact.
How then is the AA truly evangelizing the world? Didn't the Lord say that the world would know that we are His disciples IF we have LOVE toward another? How are we equipping the church if it's being torn up by the double-standard sheep of its flock? Doesn't the Word of the Lord tell us to bare one another's burdens? Go read Isaiah chapter 1, and take a good look at what God felt concerning Israel, and their hypocrisy. How are we truly exalting Christ when we are tearing each other up and disobeying His commandment? Did He not command us saying, "This is My commandment, that ye LOVE ONE ANOTHER as I have loved you."
luscious
you are allowing your sentiment to cloud your rationale
" all the brethren who were put on prueba years ago for an allotment of time came back to sue for wrongful and hypocritical punishment, this organization would be so sifted that it would be unable to sustain all litigation and remain soundly intact."
an individual would have no grounds to sue if: they cannot prove that slander or defamation took place.
Those are two very difficult to prove, so most judges would throw both out. Add the fact that thery would be vs a church and most states would never bother with them.
There is a common law that the state not get involved in internal church affairs unless an actual crime (tax avasion, fraud, money laundering) have occurred.
slander is not one of them.
if that was the case, everyone could sue for being called a sinner, and being condemnded to hell for not beleiving...
shadows said
Wow! Our constitution like the U.S.
constitution. Our head hanchos taking training in trinitarian seminaries, all this political correctness and we're still looking like swiss cheese. Can anybody say where the Holy Ghost went to. Maybe we ought to read the book of Kings and Chronicles to see why Gods people were chastised so much.
No, I'm not so concerned as to the validity of allegations and charges pressed against any respective church for defamation. It's the hypocrisy behind those pruebas that become the bigger issue. And FYI, Mr. Chairman, I don't need a lesson of jurisprudence because I am an officer of the court of law, so I think I might know just a little bit about what my office does and does not allot for, especially as a volume for personal vindication or prejudice.
then with your field of profession being what it is... your previous comment leaves me puzzled and at a loss for words....
anger clouds the mind....
The state Court of Criminal Appeals voted 4-1 in favor of Riccardo Gino Ferrante, who was arrested in 2006 for situating a camera underneath the girl's skirt at a Target store and taking photographs.
Ferrante, now 34, was charged under a "Peeping Tom" statute that requires the victim to be "in a place where there is a right to a reasonable expectation of privacy." Testimony indicated he followed the girl, knelt down behind her and placed the camera under her skirt.
In January 2007, Tulsa County District Judge Tom Gillert ordered Ferrante's felony charge dismissed. That was based upon a determination that "the person photographed was not in a place where she had a reasonable expectation of privacy," according to the appellate ruling issued last week.
Poor Apostolic girls.
Sam,
Do you know Sal Avalos? Are you related to him? Or are you the one that got caught in our church...?
Chairman, that's what blogs are for: to express the personal mind, not objective validity merely.
Professing to be wise, they became fools...
Some of you have a lot to learn about the V-dawgs (valverde's).
Regarding the statement about FTC english/spanish having issues with each other. Well alot of them have to do with the pastor fam themselves.
The V-dawgs constantly would make fun of and criticize how at the end of spanish church, it used to smell really bad. But at the end of English church it smelled like woman's perfume. They came up with so many racial jokes about this, to the point that they turned very disrespectful to hispanics.
I stopped hanging out with them so I don't know if they still have the habit of doing this.
hey frijol! I know what you are saying, and trust me i know how the Valverde's roll! Your truly right about that comment over the smell.!
Well, thats pretty sad if this is true. No humility.
To Apostolic Blood:
I agree with you in part regarding the election. But, their is a difference between young people electing someone and the Pastors electing someone.
In that case we dont know who the Reyes guy is...Maybe there was a reason as to why he didnt get elected... But I know what you are saying...
In 2006 we had two clear candidates. Pacheco and Dan Solomon, you tell me how Pachecho has more CID than Solomon. Solomon is one of the most gifted indiividuals.
He was removed because he didnt always agree with President Sanchez.
Appointing someone on the National Level with Pastors voting and Clear distinctives in place is "much" different than a district youth election...
Just thought I would share a thought. God Bless, My Brother.
Englsih Service in FTC always had royalties no matter what! Best Singer, piano player, etc., spanish left them with nothing... o and SAM i know who those 2 drummers are dont worry I know more facts about FTC than what you know about! And helping Ryan is one thing, but this kid was always messing up and you kept seeing up in the drums.!
Bishop Valverde wants every church to be like his church
What happens now. There so much division. We all agree that no one is here to hurt the Assembly. We all just want whats best for all the hermanos and hermanas. We know for sure that sitting here on the internet bickering and fighting won't help anybody. Lets do something.
To Apostolic blood did I pinch a nerve? Sorry!!
so things didn't go too well for the plaintiffs on Monday- but it's far from over- the discovery phase is next folks- all the crap will hit the roof. Yes the plaintiffs are filing an appeal to the motion on Monday- the pastors present gave them money on Monday to file it. There are alot of discontent pastors.
The dishonorable general board is gloating right now, but they are spitting nails because they are scared ****less about the criminal charges that will be filed. Yes Sanchez ran off to Chile to hide. Run Forest Run! Wow- this is the 'man' that is 'leading' our organization? He was scared to face the pastors he knew would show up. Sounds like he needs to grow a pair.
To Sanchez, Valverde, Shrimpie and the rest-- had you just HUMBLED yourselves and admitted to wrongdoing in the beginning and allowed a re-election- things would be much different now. I'm directing this at you because we know you read the blogs. . . you have shamed our organization.. . you are not worthy to be called our leaders.
EVERYONE needs to boycott the district services, the national events and DON'T GIVE A DIME TO ANY PROJECT!!!!!!!!!!!! Just give to your local churches.
I can't wait until Brother Abel Torres becomes our next Bishop President.
To Lucius:
I know Arreola-- he did marry a DIVORCED woman-- doesn't that make him an adulterer?
He had the NERVE to turn down a deacon who was up for the ministry because his wife had pulled a Jaime Aguilar and left him. She left.... he stayed in church, never faltered, raised his kids, re-married a very nice woman who had been a widow-- and ARREOLA had the nerve to turn his application down for the ministry because he had remarried. HOW THE HELL DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?????? Is sanchez's head so far up his behind that he CANNOT SEE that????
Is Valverde SO enamored with money that he can't see that????? We know that Pacheco is just too short to see that but what about the rest of the DGB???
Criminal charges? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!
Filed by who? For what? LOL!
No criminal charges are being filed. This is more of you sore losers crying wolf again. Some dummy mentioned in an earlier blog that Obispo Sanchez had be ordered to step down. It doesn't look like thats the case.
No crime has been committed. I swear, you bloggers need to stop watching Judge Joe Brown! lol
You bloggers crack me up. STOP IT ALREADY!
You know what sam! just be quiet this is a free country and everyone here can say whatever they want... you swear like you know everything! "Muy savio"
I may not be the smartest person in the world, in fact I'm just a simple old man trying to get by in this George Bush Recession. But I do know this, those pastors who are paying the costs for an appeal are gambling their churches money away.
Instead of paying expensive lawyers, the should be using that money to pay their quotas and Flor Azul.
ok sam finally you say something thats appealing to my eyes! you are right instead of paying all this money for lawyers they should send it to other lil' churches!
Wow I finally agree with you Sam, yes ALL of them (defendents & plaintiffs) should be contributing A LOT more to Flor Azul.
Flor Azul.???? are you kidding? The dorcas collect more than a million dollars in 2007 and none of the missionaries got a dime in Christmas for their children. Guess who .... the money?
hmm, didn't know that. That's too bad...bad for the for the assembly they're missing out on the blessing. Who can you trust?
Here's a good one!
How do you say Swiss Cheese in spanish?
SANCHEEZ! LOL! LOL!
That man is a total joke for the AA
LA DIST.
To Johnnie Cochran – Happy- Cheese
You seem to have it all together, looks like you have paid the gota gorda in the Assembly and that you have deep roots in the church. We value your opinions and enjoy your comments.
All the Board members including the Plaintiffs have been involved in hurting people. We all have seen and experienced that.
How they will be able to re write the Constitution is beyond me. It will not be written by Pastors, they do not have the courage to oppose the Board.
The attorneys will have a hard time writing a Constitution because of all the legalism in our Church.
I remember years back when Baldemar was President, they were going to court on another matter, and their attorney reviewed the constitution, and after reading it, the lawyer asked the Board, ‘Do you have any women in your corporation? I see only men, and you have no provision here for women.”
The women in our Assembly are the worker bees and the SANGANOS are drones inside the hive receiving the honey, just like our Board members living of the members.
Some people have been saying that this is God’s way of dealing with the Assembly. The Scripture says, stand still and God will fight the battle. But these folks took it upon themselves to go to court, and the outcome was not good for anyone.
Who ever heard of a Qualifying Committee approved by the Pastors that is composed of 3 Active Board members who are RUNNING FOR ELECTION, and 2 active or previous Bishops?
The Qualifying Committee must go along with the CID because it nullifies the Pastors vote. What is the point of keeping the Pastors fasting all day on the day of the election and voting when it really doesn’t count in the end? Might as well just appoint the Board and then go out to lunch.
That is how the CID got voted in originally. Mr. King Taco talked round and round and finally, when all the Pastors were so hungry they were going to faint, they just voted the CID in so that they could go eat.
We do not need women involved in the top leadership of our church. Women cannot handle the type of responsability that falls on the men of God. The bible says that women should obey their men. Therefore, they are in a subservient role. See, God created Adam before Eve.
I'm not saying women cannot assist in church, we already have a well established place for them right now working in the dorcas and flor azul.
Women have enough responsability with those plus we have them as sunday school teachers, cocina, flor azul, ninos, as well as their responsabilities at home in caring for her man, her children and maintaining a home.
Having women on the national board would be burdensome on them. With all due respect, women are good in their current position at home minding womens business and serving a very limited role in church.
Dear Sam,
You're so full of balonee, Sal Avalos used to beat up his ex-wife Tikkie. He has been married twice and twice divorced. As a matter of fact, ask him, he was arrested in Glendale, Arizona for hitting his wife!!! You call that a testimony, you're so full of balonee!!!
Sam,
I know who you areeeee!!!!! Come out of the closet!!!!!
Degrading the brother after he has repented and been restored. How sad.
Ye, your buddy Sal repented everytime after he hit her. About 50 times!
I know some of the pastors personally that wanted a re-election and these pastors have suffered many other things beside this ordeal that is going on. Many people are not aware of many things and there is so much a pastor can take sometimes. I know God is going to help these pastors because they are not asking for money but asking for justice.
As for victory person God workd in mysterious ways and we do not know what is in store for tommorrow,
Touching on a subject that was brought up a short while back regarding the practice of church pastorships turned over to sons or family members. My intake on this is that why shouldn’t it be so, not in all cases but perhaps in many? I mean who knows better than family what the original pioneers of that church suffered and how hard they worked to raise the church, their families - that‘s who. Who knows better and firsthand how hard the pastor worked, the tears shed, the suffering that it took to raise God’s churches, if not the family. Granted there are also many church members who worked alongside their pastor but they don’t always know the whole of it. Pastor’s (good dedicated ones) and their families go through a lot that some people don’t know or appreciate.
I was very close to a pastor’s family in my youth. I am talking about the family of Bro. A. Torres. Bro. A. Torres was molded not only by his parents in the home, but by the morals and love of God’s church they instilled in him. When we played as children at their home, we played church, that’s what they knew. I personally saw how their parents did the best they could to be an example, sometimes sacrificing their children to show examples to the rest. I recall that as a young boy Bro. A. Torres would be asked by his father during a service to step up to the altar and pray if he saw that he was talking or being disruptive with his friends during church, he didn’t tell the friends, just his son. He was teaching his son to set an example. That is where he gets his humility from, he learned from parents who humbled themselves before God.
In the case of Bro. A. Torres he didn’t just step in and take the church over, he had already earned that right long before many times over. As a youth he was president of the MOP for many years, he put together the first Youth Camp in our area, took over a church in the small town of Andrews, while barely 21-22 years old, driving 45 miles for services in a vehicle that sometimes didn‘t quite make it, started three other missions, became elder, then bishop, and pastored a church in El Paso, all this before he finally returned to Midland upon his fathers retirement as pastor to be near his elderly parents and continue the work that he helped his father start, to continue a legacy in God’s church. And continue working he did by immediately building a much bigger church and bringing many ideas and projects that have increased the growth in that church tremendously. Midland has a united, forward church that loves their pastor - he earned it. God bless Bro. Abel Torres and his family for all their sacrifices.
Alert!!! Alert!!!
HEARING RE: SETTING CASE MANAGEMENT CONFERENCE.
03/10/2008 - 1:30 PM DEPT. R12
BEN T KAYASHIMA PRESIDING.
CLERK: LUANN GEESINK
NOT REPORTED
-
APPEARANCES:
NO APPEARANCE.
-
PROCEEDINGS:
IT HAS COME TO THE COURTS ATTENTION THAT A CASE MANAGEMENT CONFERENCE WAS NEVER SET IN THIS
ACTION. ON THE COURTS OWN MOTION, MATTER SET AS STATED BELOW.
-
HEARINGS:
CASE MANAGEMENT CONFERENCE SET FOR 05/30/08 AT 09:30 IN DEPARTMENT R12
NOTICE GIVEN BY COURTROOM CLERK.
ACTION - COMPLETE
=== MINUTE ORDER END ===
What other members of FTC are you going to attack now? You've already trashed Pastor Sam and his family. You trashed Sal. You've trashed the english congregation. Who's next? Julio?
I sense your bitterness. To the point you slander me by saying I need to come out of the closet and you know my secrets.
Thats the problem with some of you bloggers, you like to bring peoples past sins and weaknesses and use those things to crucify them like a mad crowd at a Mississippi lynching.
As for you idol, Abel Torres, you really idolize this man. I can see he's a good man. But you are making him out to be Martin Luther.
Here's a man with a 150 member church. Wow. Thats only a portion of our church.
Jose?
Whats does all this mean?
The case is wide open again. The court made a mistake.
LOL Case management is not a new trial. LOL You are giving false hope to the minions. I bet you are giving them hope so the plaintiffs can go collect more money. LOL LOL LOL
A final judgement has been entered. Duh!
NEXT
03/10/2008 1:30 PM DEPT. R12 HEARING RE: SETTING CASE MANAGEMENT CONFERENCE. - Minutes Disposition: Continued
Subject:
WHY ARE WE BASHING THESE MEN??!!
We are bringing out all the dirty laundry of these men because that's exactly what they did to us. They are basically getting a taste of their own medicine. We're sick of being humiliated in public, sick of being shamed in public, sick of having no private life because the pastor will put everything on display to the congregation, sick of being told they are superior to us and we must do as they say.
Now, these leaders are reaping exactly what they sewed. They never imagined that a medium like this would be created to expose all their dirty laundry and show that we are no different than they are.
No it's not bitterness. There is relief in knowing that leaders are just as human as us po-folk are. Being able to display that on here helps us see that THEY have no RIGHT to act superior over us - they are sinners saved by graced just as we are.
So, advice to pastors and leaders - Start loving your flock and treat them as Jesus treats his flock, otherwise your name may end up on here.
Blogspot is a PERFECT way to keep your pastor humble and in check - FINALLY!
http://www.sasklawcourts.ca/docs/Small_Claims_CMC.doc
Case Management Conference
What is a Case Management Conference (CMC)?
A CMC is a meeting that takes place at the Court House. Attendance at this meeting is limited to the Judge, and the parties (the Plaintiff and the Defendant). If party has a lawyer representing him or her, the lawyer may also attend. This meeting happens after the Plaintiff begins the lawsuit by filing the Claim/Summons, but before the trial. Generally, the CMC is 30 minutes to one-hour long.
This meeting is not a trial and, therefore, witnesses do not attend at this stage.
Why Have a CMC?
The CMC is a mandatory step in the Small Claims process for most of the civil claims filed. The purpose of this meeting is to try settling some or all of the issues in dispute before going to trial. This may mean that a trial is ultimately not necessary. However, if a trial is still needed, it might be shorter and simpler because some of the issues have been resolved at the CMC.
What Happens at a CMC?
The CMC begins with the judge and the parties meeting together to discuss the case. In certain situations, the judge may even take turns meeting with the parties separately to discuss each side of the case. Exactly how a meeting proceeds may vary from case to case.
During this meeting the Judge will give the parties input on their case, including:
1) the Judge’s assessment of the strengths or weaknesses of each party’s evidence
2) the Judge’s opinion of the statute or common law that might apply
3) the Judge’s suggestions for possible resolution
If it applies to this case, this could be a big thing. We’ll wait and see if the judge is required to vacate his ruling and possibly re-hear the action.
The CMC is designed provide both side with input from a judge. There are items that were not presented, that may make a difference. A judge can assist the plaintiffs in this case to advise them how to strengthen their case. Perhaps the plaintiffs can show the results of the (s)election were determined long before the convention.
Maybe apostolicanalyst’s comment can be considered as well:
Who ever heard of a Qualifying Committee approved by the Pastors that is composed of 3 Active Board members who are RUNNING FOR ELECTION, and 2 active or previous Bishops?
Does this constitute a conflict of interest
Sam:
This is an invitation. You need to go visit the Midland church so you can see for yourself. I think it will do you a world of good. No sarcasm, no facetiousness intended here, just do yourself a favor and visit Bro. Abel and the church he lovingly pastors. Don't let anyone tell you about, see it with thine own eyes.
To ALL bloggers,
Sam goes to my church, we both attend FOT church. He is very close to the Valverde family and is one of the persons that talks trash about others with them. Just listen to the way he talks about other men of God who are not friends with his peeps. He shows disdain at the way you bloggers talk, but he is the same way, even worse.
He passes blog information on a daily basis to the Valverdes, and is a part of their little circle. Sam, I GOT YOUR NUMBER - MORE TO COME. Moron!!!!!!!!
A CMC will do NOTHING. The case is OVER. The rebellious plaintiff LOST. Get over it. Its not healthy for you. You, nor your secular humanistic systems cannot over rule God's Elect. Your side will just lose again. Its time to get over this frivilous lawsuit. Its not in the holy order of the work of the church.
While you are bashing the leaders god appointed over you, you are sowing the seeds that will kill your harvest. Seeds of bitterness will only feed the devils that seek to cause divisions in the church.
God Bless The General Board
CBG, you don't know me. I never said I got to FOT. Again, you are spreading lies and gossip. You know nothing. Get over it. Move on. Stop your bashing.
How in the world the plaintiffs lawyer let this go by if this conference is mandatory? I don't believe they have a good lawyer.
To SAM,
Quote from Sam, "Timo and Sammy are future pastors. Their family has been a blessing to the church. Why do you think we have a church of over 2,500 members? FTC will be the first Mega Church in the apostolic faith."
"Why do you think WE HAVE A CHURCH OF 2500?" Does the WE include you? Keep your lies straight. YOU ARE a member of FTC - HIPOCRITE!
I've herd you talk and trash others with your peeps, and then you have the gal to come on the blogs and judge others! What a hipocrite and a liar you are!! I'm watching you Sammy.
Bloggers MORE TO COME!
CBG, you know nothing. You are on a weak fishing expidition. You make up lies about everyone who doens't agree with you. I'm out of here.
Sam,
I wish to understand, as I am sure many here do, the purpose of your comments concerning the recent court hearing. Your comments have come off quite juvenile, and frankly, are a misrepresentation of Christian conversation. I understand that some here may post some very unnecessary comments, though that is not justification for personal retaliation or vindication through an avenue of provocative remarks.
Concerning women in leadership capacities, I suggest you go back and read 1 Corinthians 11, and re-examine your comments; Paul is speaking of a marriage situation, not a general gender situation. If a woman is married, her head is of course her husband, and if she is not married, her immediate head is God if she lives alone, and her father if she lives with her parent(s). You should also take notice to Paul's declaration on how women are not independent of men, NEITHER ARE MEN INDEPENDENT OF WOMEN.
If you're still not convinced, then go ask yourself why it was a group of fear-stricken disciples who fled the death scene of Christ, and why instead women were the first to proclaim His resurrection???
As for Pastor Torres: he is not being idolized, but rather admired for his courage to uphold the standard of integrity throughout the AA. Hath not God said, "I will give grace to the humble, and resist the proud." This man is no higher than the vagabon in the alley, or the lawmaker in Washington. What distincts him is his call to preach, and the Word of the Lord instructs us to give them double honor because of their vocation. That is all that is taking place here, not idolization.
Your insecurity is quite obvious as a result of feeling threatened by the merits of honor this man, along with those upholding integrity in the AA, is being given by the partcipants of this discussion. Are you not doing the same with the Valverde's?
It has become quite clear that you have come to sow seeds of weed by night in a field of wheat that is being sifted by the enemy. In the end, God will be the one to determine what will be plucked, and what will remain planted.
Sam, you are free to comment just as much as any other participant here. However, your comments cannot be substantiated and frankly don't hold a bit of water. I encourage you to rethink your thought process concerning the entire brethren of the AA, and your statements which bring no edification or support to the current situation. It's individuals like you that discourage the lost to despise the invitation of those who are truly endeavoring to evangelize the world. I fully expect for you to respond negatively to my comments with all manner of derogatory statements, because after all, that's all you will say because of what you have already posted in the recent days, and the tone of those comments posted.
Thought for the day: "Pride commeth before the fall."
RUN SAMMY RUN!!!
You know I got your number - RUN coward just like the president did to Chile. You're both cut from the same yerba!
You denied going to FTC, but when I quoted your own words dated "March 12, 2008 10:06 am you're out of here - WHAT A COWARD!
People like you are the reason why I refuse to get baptized!
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