Honorable Bishop President Daniel Sanchez,
I greet you in the name of our loving Savior Jesus Christ. I pray God's blessing and wisdom upon you and your family.
The purpose of my letter is to address the matter of the removal of Former Bishop Abel Torres.
As you are aware the movements of the General Board are posted on this site daily. Prior to your visit to Texas, the agenda of your travels was published on this site. The outcome of your meeting with Brother Torres was immediately published on this site. The outcome of your visit with the Pastors of their respective district was again immediately published on this site.
Although many disagree with the purpose of this website, it has become a gathering place for those who LOVE this heritage of the Apostolic Assembly. The amount of visitors to this site is astonishing. Those who take time to post are passionate about their feelings. Some are well articulated and some are crass and rude. But nonetheless they are passionate! No one, not one, wants to leave this beloved organization. That, My Dear Bishop President, is LOVE.
Many view this lawsuit as addressing a plague affecting this organization. Many view this lawsuit as the affliction itself. Which ever side the constituents of this Assembly are on, we seem to agree on one thing: Brother Abel Torres was wrongfully removed.
Bishop President Sanchez, respectfully I submit to you a personal story.
I once held a secret clearance for a government agency for a line of work I was in. Prior to my employment with this agency I underwent a very stringent and lengthy background test which included psychological tests, physical test, criminal checks, 30 year background checks, social affiliations, credit checks, drug tests and mental aptitude tests. This process took several months. By the grace of God, and God fearing parents who instructed me on the value of my testimony, I gained clearance and proceeded to work diligently for a number of years in this environment.
Several opportunities arose which required a move to the private sector. Upon leaving the government agency, my superior officer told me, "We are losing a valuable asset, if you are not happy with your new duties do not hesitate to come back. We will only have to review from the time of this termination to the time of your reinstatement request. You are already cleared and on record from this date backward". This meant if I chose to return, I would not have to undergo all the previous test again. I would only be accountable for the time I left this agency and the time I requested to return. My clearance up unto that point was granted.
Respectfully I bring these items to you attention.
1. Brother Torres was voted in by an overwhelming margin as Bishop of his respective district. The local pastors were and are aware of his involvement this lawsuit but still held fast in their hearts and spirit they wanted him to lead their district. This was because of his integrity, character and record.
2. Brother Abel Torres, under the existing CID, was approved to charge the office of District Bishop. The opportunity arose to disqualify Brother Torres from the District election for reasons of insubordination or rebellion but the election committee felt he was qualified nonetheless. Brother Torres gracefully accepted this position and communicated his desire to continue God's work through the office of Bishop and bring resolve to the aforementioned matter.
3. During Brother Torres' short administration as Bishop, he worked with humility, integrity and the fear of God. He did not use his position to bring reproach to the General Board or the Apostolic Assembly. He did not use his position as leverage on behalf of the plaintiff's of the lawsuit. Rather he worked to bring the parties together as a peacemaker.
4. On December 28, Brother Torres was removed from the Office of Bishop. Brother Torres gracefully accepted the General Board's removal of his title. He did not use this action to bring reproach to the General Board or the Apostolic Assembly.
My beloved Bishop President, I submit to you 1 Corinthians 13: 4-7.
4.Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5.It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6.Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7.It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Although comments on this website fall short of reflecting of this scripture, I would suggest that Brother Torres does not. His actions are that of love - (13. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love).
I addressed the disclosure or awareness of the movements of the General Board and actions during the dates leading and up to the removal of Brother Torres from Bishop to also bring to light that we are also aware that Brother Torres did no wrong doing whatsoever during his term as Bishop. I would suggest to you that had their been impropriety on Brother Torres' behalf, it would have been well documented on this website and should be held responsible for those
actions if true.
Since Brother Torres was accepted as Bishop during the district election, and there was no impropriety on his part during his administration and reason for removal, we are asking that Brother Torres be re-instated as Bishop of his respective district.
He was granted clearance by the local pastors of his district, he was granted clearance by the election committee and General Board. And he did nothing during his administration to remove said clearance up until the time he was stripped of his position and until present.
The local pastors and leaders again called upon his reinstatement the same day by their actions in re voting and calling upon him to be their Bishop. This should be taken as a vote of confidence on his behalf.
My beloved Bishop President. there are many matters in our Assembly that need to be addressed and corrected. We know that they cannot be changed over night. However, we do not need to keep adding to that list.
I know it is a great burden that is on the shoulders of you and your administration, I pray that God grants you the strength and wisdom to keep the flame burning.
I ask that you please reinstate Bishop Abel Torres as Bishop. It is the right thing to do.
With Respect and Love,
Apostolic Voice
952 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 800 of 952 Newer› Newest»let's see if i have this right from you
1. you call a pastor (w. mendoza) a cochino
I meant to say PEDIFILE. HIS SON, WILLIE MEDOZA AND HIS GRANDSON ARE GLUTTONS. THERE ADDICTIONS ARE NOT WOMEN,DRUGS OR ACOHOL. THERE ADDICTION IS FOOD AND POWER.
2. the gb is god appointed not elected
YES, ANNOINTED BY A DUALLY APPOINTED BODY SELECTED BY GOD'S APPOINTED LEADER.
3. the qualifying commission's action of muting the voices of 600+ pastors is god ordained
HOW MANY PEOPLE COMPLAINED TO MOSES? MOSES WAS ONE MAN, APPOINTED AND ANNOINTED BYY GOD.
THE LAST I REMEMBER, MOSES WAS NOT ELECTED.
4. president bush, senators mccain, clinton, obama, gov. arnold, scotus, policemen, judges, military, etc are all humanists
YES. BUSH WENT TO WAR BASED ON A LIE. MCAIN IS HUMANISTIC AND KILLED INNOCENT CHILDREN BY BOMBING VIETNAM. CLINTON IS A SEXUAL PREDATOR. OBAMA IS ISLAMIC.
5. the plaintiffs are men of lucifer
I SEE YOU AGREE WITH ME.
6. the list goes on and on and on from you
I WILL NOT BOW DOWN TO YOU BLOGGERS WHO BLOG AGAINST GODS ANNOINTED AND APPOINTED. YOU SIDE WITH SECULAR HUMANISTIC THEORY. I SIDE WITH THE WORD.
Sammito, you're silly. Shame on you.
"Casting lots" is not a game of chance. It was an actual vote performed on behalf of those whom where to be appointed to a legislation or office of some degree or principle. Your suggestive narrative of the term is totally of the mark (read the previous blog addressed to you from me).
That being said, you have to try to understand why this brother Abel did what he did. Out of frustration to right a wrong, he had to come forth with a strong voice. You seriously have to be quite mindless to believe that it has been done out of malice.
There is a line that we all cannot cross. If someone in your congregation were to molest a child would you not turn him into the authorities? Or would you just say "let us have a meeting to discuss the issue and try to resolve the problem within ourselves?"
I assure you, there would be those of us that would stand for justice on behalf of the child no matter what you or your pastor would say.
Wrong is Wrong! And if the leader of that church were to choose the side of silence, then there will be someone to stand up against such actions.
I don't quite know if I should take you seriously though, you seem to be serving the antagonists' card but if your not... then you must place yourself on the side of those who have been wronged.
Regarding Sam
It is sad and laughable to see this person consistently babble on with no support to his positions, besides rhetoric and secular humanism.
In reality I believe we are dealing with someone who is just baiting us to confront them, acting holy with comments like "I save souls", then call a Pastor (Mendoza) cochino for marrying a young woman. The institution of marriage is Holy, yet he chastises a man for marrying young? Sam's mind is in the gutter.
I could not stand by though and see him/her butcher another simple
explanation into a hamburger of misdirection. Regarding democracy...
The study of root words and how they have changed into common english, is
called Etymology.
Democracy = The word democracy derives from the ancient Greek dēmokratia
(literally, rule by the people)
dēmos = "people, the mob (not in negative connotation), the many"
kratos = "rule" or "power"
Demon = the word demon has ancient origins. The Merriam-Webster dictionary gives the etymology of the word in greek as daimon, probably from the verb daiesthai meaning "to divide, distribute." But in Ancient Greek, δαίμων meant "spirit" or "higher self"
Do those words have similar meaning? NO. They look alike though so I guess using samtuition they must have the same meaning. Sam, the bible has letters strung together called words, then proper words placed together make sentences, then paragraphs then eventually books.... start on the top left and read to the right then repeat.
FormerAA, there is a reason you have left the Apostolic Church. Based on your welly articulated answer, I can tell you have been fully indoctrinated in secular humanism.
You can take your greek meanings as well as king james translations, in the end, you are arguing for nothing since you have abandoned your faith and embraced the secular humanism that you dwell in.
You should return to your faith and sway away from secular humanism.
FormerAA, there is a reason you have left the Apostolic Church. Based on your welly articulated answer, I can tell you have been fully indoctrinated in secular humanism.
You can take your greek meanings as well as king james translations, in the end, you are arguing for nothing since you have abandoned your faith and embraced the secular humanism that you dwell in.
You should return to your faith and sway away from secular humanism.
Sam
Good response. What else can you deduct from my postings and ID? I am sorry that you do not want to study properly. Yes, the greek is a little to much for you and that darn King James Bible, you definitely do not read that.
Put down the illustrated (which means it has pictures) bible and read. Study to show thyself approved.
By the way, the Apostolic Assembly is not the only group going to heaven. God does exist outside of your little world of politics and humanism. Acts 2:38 does live beyond the AA and UPC.
sammy, sammy
"FormerAA, there is a reason you have left the Apostolic Church"
where are you being trained at? my god, you have a very warped view of THE CHURCH. fyi, there is no such thing as the "apostolic church" in the new testament even your niv version will reference no such thing
sammy, sammy
from my previous blog and your answer "4. president bush, senators mccain, clinton, obama, gov. arnold, scotus, policemen, judges, military, etc are all humanists
YES. BUSH WENT TO WAR BASED ON A LIE. MCAIN IS HUMANISTIC AND KILLED INNOCENT CHILDREN BY BOMBING VIETNAM. CLINTON IS A SEXUAL PREDATOR. OBAMA IS ISLAMIC.
since all these folks are humanist then who will you recognize as the president of the u.s.a. come january, 2009? will one of your anointed and appointed gb members be in the white house?
To Sam:
Hey Sammy. I've been gone for a while and I was just reading over the last blogs.
Listen to me Sammy and listen to me good. Please do not for any reason use your little phrase "secular humanism" one more time. Change your vocabulary. Do it Sammy. No one wants to hear it again, not ever in a million years!
Work on your blogging skills. Do it like this Sammy - say a little prayer, try to gather your thoughts, get the dictionary, and think, think, think. Then try to get your thoughts down - but Sammy, under no circumstances say "secular humanism" one more time. Surely you can come up with something of TRUTH AND SUBSTANCE. G'nite and God Bless. Oh, when's your next appointment, I'll be praying for you.
I bet Sammy Wammy is already asleep. This day overwhelmed the poor guy.
And yes, BROADEN your vocabulary please Mr. Smart Guy!
Sam....
Keep up the good work. You're making us all think, reach for the Bible and even the lexicons!
If you look at Acts 1, starting with verse 14, you see how they began this process of election; in constant prayer, which included the presence of women.
I still feel that what happened in Midland was disappointing to the Assembly.
It could be that in the video you see the discomfort of the 3 GB members (that may have been a well performed charade), but they ultimately got what they came for.
They went home to Papa Sanchez, having accomplished what they were sent to do.
You bloggers who blog against the Apostolic Church Leadership are teaching me a lesson.
I never would have imagined the prophesy of Rev. Richard Heard would come true. In 1987 he prophesyed that technology would be lead to the coming of the Anti-Christ and that secular humanism would spread in the church like cancer.
Judging by what all of you have blogged over the last couple of days, I have one word for you, you need to repent and come back to the safety of the flock.
You have all been lead astray by a pide piper. Abel Torres, Solomon, Art Taffoya, Baldemar Rodriguez have played their tune and you have followed them in lock step.
As Noah called sinners to repent and enter the boat before the end, I stand before you pleading with you to repent from your sin of spreading divisions in the church and return to the safety of the flock before a devilish wolf over comes you and leads you to eternity of wickedness.
You all do seem to be of intellegent intellegence. Use that intellegence to see through the fog before your eyes and return to the flock before secular humanism denies your entry.
Goodnight all of you and I pray this night it would be revealed to you that Daniel Sanchez is the man for the hour.
If the anointed man of God asked me to shine his shoes I would, if he asked me to kiss the ground he walks on I would. For it is God who works in him and through him. All of you should be readily and willing to do the same.
Blessings to my leader and the Moses of my life - Bishop Sanchez.
Sam:
We really pinched a nerve now, didn’t we? I was under the impression that you were for justice, but it seems like you are just about fun and games and a little harassment of the bloggers on the side.
The majority of the GB cheated their way to the top. You think this is okay with God?
I guess you DO think that fraud and cheating and scheming is okay with God because you defend the GB so vehemently. Are you, per chance one of them?
With so much work that needs to be done for the Kingdom, why are these men at each other’s throat and causing such chaos and discord in the Assembly?
If they were REAL men of God, their first interest would be the WORK of God.
To Sam:
We're going to teach you a real lesson alright, Sammy. Actually, we've already accomplished our first goal and that's to think before you write! Your last couple of posts are written much better, Sammy. I mean you still write nothing of substance and of course no truth but your grammer is better. Is daddy looking over your shoulder now or is he doing it himself?
Don't miss your appointment. God Bless.
"This is the day that the Lord hath made, I will rejoice and be glad in him."
I refuse to allow Sam to get the best of me. I don't have time for his nonsense so I encourage the rest of us to do the same. As someone stated the best thing for us to do is not respond to his blogs. Anyway, does it matter what he says? Of course not, as the saying goes "he who laughs last will laugh the hardest." Let him enjoy himself in the midst of his ignorance he is not worth wasting our words with.
Alert!!!
Pastor David Hernandez of Family Life Center pass away to be with the Lord last night.
apostolic_insider,
Good idea. Please ignore Sam, as it is obvious that he is getting his thrills off seeing our knee-jerk reactions to his posts. Not only that, he may be trying to sabotage the potential of this blog page by turning it into some kind of childish told-ya-so game.
I personally have stopped responding to his posts. Siganme los buenos!
amen and amen to both you and apostolic insider as i have previously posted, don't stoop down to this person's mental level
can anybody go and pull the defendants response tomorrow there in rancho cucamonga?
Your right of course, dudeskie, I was just "toying" with him. I figure we better leave him alone, too, cause he might wind up in the looney bin or worse he might go berserk and we'll read about him in the papers!
Why don't we instead send some encouragement to Bro. Torres. This has got to be taking its toll on him and his family. I mean he is human and has been ill and the body can only take so much. I hope the GB and everyone involved takes that into consideration. Let's be there to hold his arms up. Lets not let him carry the burden alone. Why don't we put our heads together and think of ways to help. Brothers and sisters lets unite, lets not stand there and look on. Get involved with the cause, this is important - it can define the future of our beloved Assembly. God bless all!
It sounds like you bloggers cannot handle the truth and fear my retorts.
The door is open for you bloggers who blog against the Apostolic Church to return to the fold. I becon you to return hence to your faith.
In the end, the general board will be justified in cleaning house and keeping the commands.
we care
"Brothers and sisters lets unite, lets not stand there and look on. Get involved with the cause, this is important" good statement
you have a typical david and goliath scene here. i wonder how the four plaintiffs are managing financially with this cause? they are four and the gb has the funds of the entire aa at there disposal
anybody know
Ynos, yes there is, but I'll have to get back to you on that. I have to check on some things before I can pass the informatoin on.
How many members does Bro. Torres church have?
I know he has a big building...
we_care,
I like your idea about sending Bishop Torres some encouragement. In the video that was posted he sounds fine, but a lot of the times leaders will stand up and look strong and poised so that the audience will remain positive and encouraged. Knowing Bishop Torres and his love for people, he is willing to fake-the-funk (so to speak) in order to keep the church moving forward. The last thing he would want is to emotionally drag the church along with him into this whole fiasco.
I am sure, in his prayer closet it is a completely different scene from what we see. Thus, our prayers for him and encouragement for him is critical at this moment.
Be encouraged Bro. Torres! Thanks for giving justice a voice! Only real men have that kind of valor.
He only has about 100 members, not many ministers either...
Really!!! I thought he had more. someone told me that he had at least 250 members.
I'm just wondering because what a man has accomplished speaks volumes of who he is.
Its a good thing the general board sat down Abel Torres. He has been pastor for 30 years, and only has 100 members.
Good examples of pastors that save souls are Obispos Valverde and Sanchez, and Aguilar who have over 1,000 members each.
Good shepherds have big congregations. They bare fruit.
Actually he has only Pastored the current local church for 13 years and he has well over 400 members.
I have been there personally, and he has a good church compared to the rest of the Assembly...
As far a Bishop Sam having 1000 members, its no wonder...he lives in a populus area and even he has testified that many have moved to his church because they moved away from LA and couldnt afford housing so they moved to the San Bernardino Co. then switched churches. One is perception, the other is reality.
Get your facts straight sam!
Paul, then explain the growth of Obispo Sanchez Church and Obispo Aguilar.
Fruits, you shall know them for their fruits.
Facts are facts and fruits are fruits.
I am not saying that there churches are not big...Or that they dont have any fruits. Of course they do but so does Bro. Torres.
Sanchez, Aguilar, Valverde, Torres, Aguirre...they have all done a good job of growing churches...
However, one must separate perception from reality...
If someone from say... Miami has 700 members and then someone from a small town in Texas or Arizona has 300 or 400, when need to understand that some people live in more prosperous areas than others...
Midland is a good town but its no CA, Miami or even San Antonio... these are areas (Midland) that are low in population but yet he has still succeeded. They have all done well... God Bless Sanchez, Aguilar and Yes Torres too... 400 members? Not bad at all
Well, not only does the size of your church prove your fruits as far as accomplishments but what about the men that surround these leaders... I mean great men have great people that they have developed...
Aguilar has developed his two sons (Jeff and Jason) in the ministry...Valverde has developed great men also... Who does Sanchez and Torres have? They dont have any good people around them.
You can have many accolades but special people develop other people in their ministry.
Obispo Valverde will have the first mega church in Apostolic Assembly history.
Well, good for him... But I will quote one of his preachings... "God is not looking for a Megachurch, he is looking for a holy church."
Straight out of his mouth.
WE CARE should know the people that surround Torres and the Men he has developed... After all she is related to him... Right WE CARE!!!
I am watching you.
The thing here in Southern California is that all the towns and cities are close by. If you get ticked off at your pastor or your current church isn't suiting your needs- you can just get up and move churches- a la Fontana, Santa Ana etc.- those churches are full--FULL-- of transferred members. Midland, is not in a populous area- Odessa is close by but most towns are 30- 2to3 hours away.
Brother Torres has WAY more than 100 people. He usually has two services going on at the same time-- the English and the Spanish- he has two congregations.
Say what you will "Sammy" your boys are going down. It's funny to me how the three who were never elected bishops, went to remove a bishop. Funny how things work out. Brother Sanchez- pardon my French didn't have the ***s to face the Pastors in Texas again after his last fiasco.
Man-developed great men of God? No wonder. Man needs to be developed by God not by any other man!
Fabian:
Jim Jones also had a HUGE crowd, so does Benny Hinn, for that matter- so DID Tammy Faye Baker and her crooked hubby--
First Mega Church in the AA:
Pastor: Samuel Valverde
Membership: 3000 - Using Cell Block ministries
Departments: Varones, FlorAzulers, Jovenes
Location: San Quentin
Happy:
God uses man to show his glory and his love. How do people she God? If anyone sees God just as He is, they will be destroyed.
People, see Christ through us. Therefore, nothing is wrong with thinking that God will use Men to develop other men in their ministry.
Who has Torres developed? No one...
Finally, someone who agrees with me, Fabian. My ministry of helping bloggers who blog against the Apostolic Church is having results.
Bishop Abel Torres, has developed many great men throughout the years. Around the district and in his local church. They dont have big names but they are faithful.
We need to get out of the mentality that everyone is suppose to be big and have big names with honorable titles, God did not call us to be big but faithful...
Sam and Fabian, you guys have no idea...
Okay then Paul, Name a few??? Or at least just one, anyone.
sammy=fabian
I guess this was the only way to get someone to agree with you.
Anyhow, Bishop Abel Torres has developed more people then you'll ever know. He has developed the ministers (about 6-7), young men that are preaching and teaching, Sunday school teachers. Oh and how about the 400+ strong and faithful church members at his church. Come to the district and take a poll Sammy boy and I'll guarantee that many of the pastors will tell you how Bishop Torres has contributed to their ministry THROUGH GOD. You want names: find a list of the Midland's congregation, the minister's, and the pastors in the surrounding area.
From what I heard, Abel Torres is a controlling man. He does not like to share the credit or limelight.
Thats why he had Juan Campos removed as pastor because Juan Campos was a threat to his power.
Sam, sam, sammy boy... You are way off. Juan Campos was not even from the area. They hardly even know each other. Lets see, Victoria is down South by San Antonio, Midland is 500 miles north... Two different districts
Get your facts straight.
Juan Campos left because he no longer desired to Pastor...
Alright sammy boy:
After that last comment it is apparent that you speak ignorantly and you are uneducated. You do not know Bishop Torres in the least and therefore you make ridiculous assumptions. I hope that in prayer (whenever it is that you do that) you seek God. That is all that I hope and if you do then all is well because it is quite obvious it is ONLY GOD that is going to reveal truth to such an ignorant person as yourself. I'll pray for you, myself, Bishop Torres, the GB, and all those involved.
Now unless you have something that is not defamatory to anyone then please keep quite and start a blog on your own where you can praise the GB all you want.
PG, Like who and developed what? I have been to that district...
They call these places, "churches" and they have like 1 member...Is that development?
And having people under him? Anyone can have that... Quality men, though...Men who have conviction and make a difference, there are none under his Pastorship or that he has developed indirectly.
He might be a good man, but hes not doing much to develop others
Fabian:
Bishop Torres has many men of God that have expressed their gratitude towards Bro. Torres. I have heard them publicy and privately that they are thankful for allowing them to serve under him. Their ministry would not be if it had not been for God using Bishop Torres.
Bishop Torres is a Great Man of God, with integrity, wisdom and a great preacher. All this has led to the development of other Men of God who are faithful to their calling.
Fabian: name one Great Man of God that YOU know of . . .
Its a well known fact that Abel Torres envisioned having all of Texas as a super district under his exclusive power.
This is why when the board was doing a realignment of the districts, Abel Torres was lobbying to have Texas as one big district.
Its common knowledge for those of us in the know.
Juan Campos is a dynamic and charasmatic leader and was a threat to Abel Torres attempt at consolidation of political power.
Had things remained, Juan Campos would have been elected bishop of the Texas mega district.
Fabian/Sammy:
A church is where one gathers to worship and praise the Lord. In these churches are people (whether it may be one or two; I'm sure you know the scripture) who worship the Lord. And unless you know every single member in the churches then you should keep shut. I'm almost positive you do not know every single person and who are you to say whether Bishop Torres helped developed them THROUGH THE LORD or not. First you were concerned about his church-now it's the district your questioning. Ridiculous is what you are sir. And maybe instead of skimming through the other posts you should actually READ them. Population does have a lot to do with growth. How do you know if these "1 member" churches have more faith and are more on fire than say a "500 member" church. The Midland church started out with one family and now is at 400+...i would conclude that there had been some developing going on. Or maybe I'm mistaken...? You judge because you seem oh so well at doing that. God Bless you.
bloggers why do you keep allowing sammy sammy to control the discussion, simply ignore the guy
let's try it again, ignore sammy sammy----- ok? ok!
Okay then, PG and all the Torres supporters, just name one person of significance that Torres has developed? One person and I am out, wont ever blog again? Just one?
me-now leave
Good gosh and hot diggety dog I've been gone a long time. Please forgive me cause I've been busy working on my "to do" list. Wow a lot has happened since I've been away. Hey - does anyone know of a support group for BLOGGERS!?
Jeepers, creepers it sure is scary to know that "BIG BROTHER" is watching me. Okay, Snicks, so you really think you know me. That's a kick! But listen Snicks, I've still got stuff to do, I'll check in on you later. Take care. Unlike ole Sammy, my boy, I gather my thoughts and then BAM! Catch you later, I gotta run.
Sam:
Even if they did want to realign Texas to one district, I know Bishop Torres personally and he has no envy or ambition to have a position.
Also, Juan Campos would have never qualified in the first place to be Bishop...Oh wait, never mind you only need 2 votes to be on the GB...Never mind, I forgot that the GB uses appointments and frauds to use its dealings.
Side note: (The GB does not even approve of certain speaking engagements for Juan Campos, how would they approve him for Bishop) Sam your messed up, get help.
Pastor Abel is a great Man of God. Keep up all the good work, Pastor Abel. Stay encouraged and strong. We believe in you and we know that you love the church
Since no one spoke up to say who Pastor Torres has helped in their ministry, I will assume that there are no good Men of God under his Pastorship or ever have been...
I will continue to make noise for the real Justice. Real Men of God develop others, real leaders make other leaders... Abel Aguilar has developed Jason and Jeff
Sam has many good men, including a dynamic Worship leader in Joseph Espnioza...
Who has Torres helped? All I here is silence...
Well, from what I have seen, many people love Bishop Torres because he is a humble man. Many people can accomplish things and I have no doubt that he has done so...
However, his humility is what everyone loves about him.
The Catholic church has millions of people whom they have developed, including influential popes and not to mention Mother Teresa who alone puts the entire GB combined with previous GB's to shame.
It is not Biblical to be comparing because when you start comparing you will always fall short no matter who you are.
Spiritual success is determined by how well you submit yourself to the will of God.
So I think we should all just grow up and stop counting who has more. Because more will NEVER be enough.
fabian, obviously you are not paying attention to the element of humility that comes out of a. torres, you reproduce the same kind that you are.
were you aware that a. aguilar advertised ct choir on carisma magazine a few years back? it is all a show case. i do give him credit for his two boys though. as far as espinoza goes, it has nothing to do with s. valverde. espinoza comes from a family of singers/song writers. both of these two cases are stage.
a. torres is none of the above. he is not into name dropping or showing off his products. take a look at the video where the new bishop was elected and what he had to say about a. torres. that will speak for itself.
Paz de Cristo!
I am a memeber of the Midland Church my pastor is Abel torres we DONT HAVE 100 MEMBERS we have some 250+ and we are growing we started an obra in Bigspring there are 5 families congregating and we have a second obra in Midland that its growing really fast so please dnt make up just numbers FABIAN and we have 6 ministers so yeah we are GROWING and this deal thats going on is not making the church smaller but its crazy cuz in the middle of this we started the obra in Big Spring Praise God for that
Okay, I'm back. Thank you Snickers, and here I was having bad thoughts about you.
Okay you people out there who have been given a helping hand not only in your spiritual life, but as a great and honest friend by our great and forever Bishop Abel Torres, son of Valentin B. Torres, lets hear it. I know not everyone has computers or is computer savvy so speak out for your parents or help them to do it. Its time to show our gratitude. Let's show the Sammys and Fabians of this world who Abel Torres really is. They only wish they would ever be half the great man he is. Can we stand up and holler!
We Care:
Do Texans even know how to use computers? Shoot, do Texans even know what computers are?
No, I'm not talking about those old IBM Word Processors.
Texans think the "Internet" is something inside a fishing net.
Jeff and Jason were developed by a 'great' man of God- their daddy. Neither would be a minister under anyone else's pastorship had their daddy not been a pastor.
Need I say more? Fabian There's so many questionable things on Brother Aguilar-- try & find a rumor on Brother Abel and you'll find none.
you keep saying that valverde has developed great men- which ones? Jose Espinoza? he's not a great man of God- he's a talented singer- a good MC- but so is my little brother.
R.I.P.
Rev. David Hernandez
East LA Apostolic Church
before it was Family Life Center.
His ministry actually reached the lost and won many souls. At one time, he was frowned upon by leadership of the AA.
Lifeline reached a lot of homies. Many were won to the Lord and saved from gang violence and drugs.
Sure, some fell back to their old life style, but it opened the door for their families to recieve Christ.
Pastor Hernandez was firm in the Word and blessed many more people that congregated at his church.
He wasn't a pastor caught up in the political games of the AA. Did he have to deal with it, of course. But becoming Bishop was not his passion.
His passion was reaching the Lost.
God Bless You Brother David, You will be missed but you are in a far better place.
Okay then just name one person that Abel Torres has helped develop his ministry and I will shut up...
Exactly, there is none....
Fabian get over it.
Valverde's evangelism pastor had an affair with his nephew's wife.
Valverde's assistant pastor left the AA and is now trinitarian.
Valverde's music pastor left the AA and started his own church where his wife preaches and baptizes.
Valverde backstabbed Bro. Aguilar many many times before they were "friends". I saw it with mine own eyes.
Aguilar's daughter had an affair, her husband was mistreated. She was engaged once again, fornicated with him and was allowed to remarry and make records once again.
Aguilar's assistant pastor left the AA and is now trinitarian, started his own church and is still single and does not practice abstinence.
Aguilar himself has a questionable background.
Aguilar's son Jason Aguilar prophesies over folks telling them that they will soon become millionares.
I can say a whole lot more about these men.
Fabian,
You call this good discipleship? This argument can go on and on, I suggest we end it.
Millionaires? lol Now that is what I call Funky Doctrine. Wow, according to Jason Aguilar, Jesus died get me some bling bling, and according to Aguilars old assistant pastor, some non-abstinence too.
Crazy Apostolicos!
I am a member of Pastor Abel Torres's church in Midland. I have been reading these blogs for months and finally decided to say something. I am glad to see how many people are supporting Pastor Abel in this. However, to those who have nothing but bad things to say about him..Pastor Abel hasn't said anything bad about the people you are supporting. One thing he has asked us to do is to respect the GB, and the people above us. I suggest you do the same and have some respect for a great man of God. His reason for all this is not to split the Assembly or disrespect anyone...all he wants is for the right thing to be done. I am actually thankful for all this that is happening because it is bringing our church closer together! It is also showing Pastor that we support and love him! God Bless!
Van,
Hey good to see you back. You always do have a cool sense of humor.
Yeah, we still ride the prairie on our horses and communicate with smoke signals. But, hey, and this is a big one - WE CAN COUNT!
OH,Got one for you:
"Texas is the only state that can still separate to become its own country. The only way California's gonna accomplish that is if another earthquake comes along and you guys sink into the ocean. Can you say Atlantis...."!
All kidding aside my condolences for the loss of the brother. Sounds like he was a good man of God. My true condolences to his family. Valentin Torres the father of Abel Torres died six years this February 22nd. He is still greatly missed and constantly remembered by his loving congregation and by all who loved him. God Bless.
Van and anyone else:
Just a final thought for the nite.
Everytime a person dies and they are eulogized I sit there and listen to all the wonderful things being said about them. It always makes it so much better for the grieving family to hear how their loved one was remembered and so highly thought of. I've heard many beautiful ones.
My point is that it never fails to make me think that I should re-evaluate my life and make adjustments where needed and start being a better person because "Geez, what if people have a hard time trying to think of good things to say about me when I'm gone!" I'd hate to put my loved ones or the pastor officiating or whomever in that predicament. Wouldn't that be horrible!?
Just a parting thought for all of us. Lets live a better life for the Glory of God and so he will have mercy on our souls. AND so people can say good things about us when we're gone, you know, so it won't be so tough on our loved ones!
G'nite and God Bless.
I love blogging!
Ok! Fabiansito/Samuelito,
The only developing that I see credited to Aguilar is he has devloped a very submissive wife. As we all witnessed at convention where else but in Texas! HELLO!!! Poor lady! Now how about that little fellow he also developed that thought he could walk on water Mr. Jeffrey himself, ruined a nice Botany 500. What about the Tunga master! Are this the Who's Who of the AA! Good job Aguilar keep up the good work! OH I almost forgot his daughter! Goodness!!
Trophyman, do I sense jealousy in your comments? Obispo Aguilar have saved thousands of souls. His membership is about 1,500.
He has had much success. His choir has made several recordings that have reached tens of thousands of souls with the message of the gospel.
Both his sons have been a blessing to the church. Is it any coincidence that Jason has the biggest congregation in the east coast? He is truly blessed. Just look at his new building.
Jeff is a tremendous success too. He could easily walk away from the church and make millions of dollars in the recording industry. He's a talented young man and in demand. But he keeps his ministry for the church.
As for those comments about Jaime, how shameful. Jaime has been a blessing to tens of thousands of people with her recordings. Has she come short of the glory, of course. But let he who has no sin cast the first stone.
Brother Aguilar will soon have a mega church as well. He is a blessing to many. Its just a shame that great men of God are mocked by so many people. Its even more shameful that you mock his wife, sons, and daughter.
There is some repenting that is needed today. I pray that you repent from those shameful comments.
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:03:20 EST [07:03:20 AM CST]
From: ATorres111@
To: letters@apostolicassembly.info
Subject: A letter to President Daniel Sanchez
Paz de Cristo,
Esteemed President Daniel Sanchez,
These past few weeks my family and I have been thoroughly humiliated by
yourself and the rest of the General Board Members. Needless to say, it has been
an extremely painful experience. In spite of what I consider to be an all out
retaliatory action against me due to the firm stance I have taken in an
effort to help in the dilemma that we are faced with in our Apostolic Assembly, I
assure you that I harbor malice toward none nor any type of bitterness. I
continue to appreciate each and every one of you and I continue to love our
beloved Assembly. I have always worked in favor of it, never have I lifted a
finger against it. My sole reason for holding on to my conviction, as I hold it
to be true, is that I desire that the injustices that have been committed may
ultimately be corrected. I reiterate what I have sincerely expressed to you
in private that there is nothing personal against you or anyone else. If I
had to do it again, I would probably do it again. Of course, I am not a perfect
person. I am not very courageous either. I am just a person whose humble
opinion is that justice should prevail and that our organization should also be
improved in such a manner that it will please God, and our children and our
children�s children will be proud to belong to it as well. Only time will tell
that what we have endeavored has been the proper course to take. May God
bless you always.
Respectfully,
Abel V. Torres
I made a mistake, Aguilar's church is not 1,500, it is only about 400.
But he is still the next biggest thing to Christianity. He and the rest of the GB are worthy of all my affection and I worship the ground they walk on.
One day I will be like Daniel Sanchez, it is just a matter of time! Mua-hahahaha!!
Be afraid Mr. TOrres! Oh, be very afraid!
The following has been posted on wikipedia severaltimes and has been repeatedly deleted by an unknown source. I have a attached a copy of the link to the site followed by the article itself.
note:if link does not work simply go to google and type in the following "apostolic assembly+wiki" it will be the first one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Assembly_of_the_Faith_in_Christ_Jesus
"Election Irregularities
In recent times, the Apostolic Assembly has found itself in the midst of a devastating and ill fating affair. A law suit has been filed in the San Bernardino County Courthouse against the apostolic assembly and its board members, by a selected few members of the same Episcopal body pertaining to the Apostolic Assembly. It is believed, as stipulated within the pages of the same court documents, that during the Apostolic Assemblies 2006 Electoral Convention in Long Beach California, certain voting and election irregularities occurred. Faithful members and members of the ministerial body all around the nation, wait anxiously as court proceedings take on their toll. The concern regarding The Assemblies state has been made more noticeable through the pages of cyberspace. Thousands, in anticipated fear of an organizational split, have come to speak of their frustrations and concerns regarding the overall well being of the church. Settlement attempts were made on behalf of the plaintiffs with the hope of avoiding a perhaps disastrous court ruling; negotiations remained at a standstill as members of the General Board were unwilling to settle to the demands of the plaintiffs."
Abel Torres is a humble and courageous man. May God bless Him and his family. Bishop, we just want to thank you for everything that you are doing on behalf of the assembly.
He does this to preserve the intergrity of the church.
Reminder - Defendant's Response is due in court today
It seems ironic that the AA promotes the following book on their website:
"The 17 Indisputable Laws of Teamwork"
John C. Maxwell
The publisher writes:
"Everyone who works with people is realizing that the old autocratic method of leadership simply doesn’t work. The way to win is to build a great team."
Interesting how the GB promotes something they themselves have not tried. Very typical of the GB. Why do they insist their members get into things that they themselves are not willing to try?
v-day
can you go and pull the docs from the court for us?
ALERT!!!
I want to ask everyone for forgiveness. Yesterday I posted some pretty mean things. Well, when I began to pray last night at church after the preaching, God began to convict me of many things in my life.
I hope everyone here, but more importantly Bro. Torres can forgive me for what I said about Him. I just pray that we can settle everything for the Love of Christ.
To everyone, I was wrong.
Fabian
I don't have access to the documents.
Maybe AA.info will post them soon
Let's continue to send words of encouragement to Bro. A. Torres. Thanks Bro. Fabian, we should all be in prayer.
from reliable sources
the defense documents are already at the court. can someone go and pull and post them at apostolicassembly.info
Why is it that Fabian and Sam keep making statments, then turn around and apologizing for those comments. Seems to me that people are creating manipulating the system here. No wonder the AA is tumbling down.
Must be people from Arizona who are depressed that their Suns got spanked by Kobe and the Lakers.
Aw, Van, I don't know, but Bro. Fabian sounds sincere. I mean it takes a real man/woman to admit wrongdoing. We should all be praying so that we may be enlightened, and standing up for what's right. "Prayer can move mountains", I believe it. God bless you Van.
I'm rather melancholic today, maybe it was the eclipse last nite, I don't know. Anybody see it? It was pretty neat.
Say is California still holding on to the States? I don't know anything about sports so I can't go there. Arizona folks?
God Bless
I agree with we care. Last night before i went to bed i prayed for all the people that post comments on this blog and for those being talked about. so reading fabian's apology was somewhat of a reassurance that God was listening. i know he always is but it was nice.
Test Blog to make sure I am doing this right>
After reading the responses from the General board to Pastor Art. Tafoya, I have come to realize that as a collective whole the pastors in the AA do not appear to be very savvy? Why can't they develop a constitution that provides better checks and balances.
Why is Art Tafoya so upset? I wonder if he remembers when some of his church members found him to be unethical when suddenly 10,000 dollars were missing from the church building fund. I wonder if Art. Tafoya was very ethical when he ran Bro. Navarette out of the AA.
The Letter constantly says that they have not vioolated the constitution, but they sure seem to have done some shady stuff behind close doors. Why is the General board fearful of a re-election? Why would they cause all this embarrassment to themselves and the organization by going to court?
The Pastors of the AA are not very smart for voting in the CID document therefore reducing their voice to 1/4 of the electoral process. This is according to the response letter to Art. Tafoya. Let see if the Pastors try to reverse their mistake next general conference by placing a new resolution before the Pastoral body?
I wonder if there are any board members that are disgusted with Sanchez, valverde and Pacheco. I wonder what is Prado's stance on this. Maybe he is not in a position to say anything because of his own messes. I heard that he got himself in a big financial mess with his church building. thank the lord for Bro. Solomon for partialy bailing him out and the General Board for paying his church mortgage. I wonder why the GB's general treasure report does not reflect that? Maybe I am wrong, but if I am someone please set me straight?
The bottom line is the AA is a big mess. Does anyone know of any other religious organizations that have had to go to court to settle their problems? Anyway how pathetic is our beloved organization.
Love
Pablino Bernal
Samuelito,
Funny how I triggered a reaction from you! You are the one that has been talking up a storm about Torres and who has he developed. I am not mocking I am just setting the record straight my friend. Truth hurts, therefore I understand your reaction. LOL!
Quote:
"I am a pastor of an independent apostolic church that was led to write this letter for several reasons. To begin with, I have no special interest in either side of this controversy, nor will I gain from either side, being that I am not a pastor of your esteemed assembly. I am, however, very familiar with your organization because my wife grew up in your assembly, and I have many intimate friends that are pastors in the assembly also. After saying this the question might arise, “If you’re NOT involved in this organization do you have to say regarding this matter as an outsider?” Well, when the Lord first directed me to write this letter I asked Him the very same question. And as always he manifested His will through many ways.
First of all, I am NOT writing this letter for the sake of past and present board members, nor for the sake of bishops and pastors, but I am writing this letter for the sake of the faithful! Some, very angry and disturbing letters have been written. I say disturbing, because the people that wrote them failed to sense the spirit of the letter. See, we can write well articulated letters that express each point in a clear and concise manner. However, the spirit in which the letter was written will always come through as the reader is reading! One writer wrote, “I highly respect our National Board members and all the previous board members. But, now,....seeing those previous board members stand up and speak out AGAINST our current board members....is horrid, and because of this....it saddens me to say...I have lost respect for them. To disrespect him and his board members in such a way...is down-right wrong? I strongly believe...that placing all of these documents on this site....is wrong.? You have done nothing positive by doing so.? What do you think you are teaching our children? Our young people?? to stand up and publicly speak against God-appointed-leaders?? YOU ARE WRONG!!!?”
Posting these letter is not WRONG as this writer claims because the intent, and the spirit behind these letters IS NOT malicious. Any Spirit filled apostolic can discern this. But the need to expose the wrong works of man is not only necessary but it is a command given to the church, “Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.” Ephesians 5:6-11 (NIV). You see, if these letters are presented in the proper forum, what this will teach our children and young people is that we have to do what is TRUTH not what is RIGHT! This is very important to understand because sometimes doing the right thing IS NOT NECESSARILY GOD’S TRUTH! It is obvious by the letters written on both sides of the controversy that a wrong was not only committed, but that a coverup was also attempted in the process. My sister, God’s mercy will ALWAYS give man an opportunity to correct his errors, but when man refuses He will use others to bring about His correction, “Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us. Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.” 1 Peter 2:12-17 (NIV). I agree with you in your stance as a, “...faithful and loyal supporters of our President and our board members. May God grant them strength, wisdom, prosperity, peace...” But I do not agree with your stance that, “...more people stand up for them.” because the child of God is to stand for TRUTH, no matter who the person is to me!
Another writer wrote, “I have no qualms with people questioning the events of the last election. People are entitled to their opinions whether right or wrong. However, I believe that voicing those opinions on limited facts and making judgments is detrimental to our assembly.” This writer hit the problem right on the proverbial head, however, he too missed the mark of what he himself is saying. When this writer wrote these words, “The person who leaked those letters has done the greatest harm. When did God stop being the Judge and the One who brings integrity? Do you think that God actually needs your help to unveil the “injustice” that has occurred? My brothers, why do you compensate in the flesh what you lack in the spirit? If you are truly concerned, then pray for our leadership. They are made of flesh and bone like you and I. It is true that they are far from being perfect, then again who is? All sin and come short of Gods glory.” He wrote these words under the assumption that, “The person who leaked those letters has done the greatest harm” DID NOT seek God FIRST before he leaked the letters. How do you know this? Are you voicing your opinion on limited facts? He also wrote, “When did God stop being the Judge and the One who brings integrity? Do you think that God actually needs your help to unveil the “injustice” that has occurred?” Again, you are operating under the assumption that the men of God on one side of the controversy DID NOT SEEK GOD FIRST!
This is where the Lord brings me in. You see, the Lord DID expose these unfruitful works of darkness prior to the elections of 2006, but man chose NOT to heed His word. So the Lord used the mouth, hands, and feet of other to expose the works of those whose hearts had left His will. Allow me to explain! In early February of 2006 I held a revival in our church. A well know UPC evangelist, whom God uses mightily, came to preach for us. During the revival this man of God approached me with this question, “Do you know the Bishop President from the Apostolic Assembly?” I responded, “Yes I do!” He then asked me to give him the President’s mailing address because he had a letter the Lord told him to write to President Sanchez. In this letter (he asked me to read it), through the Holy Spirit President Sanchez was told to clean house, starting with headquarters, down to Bishops and their Districts, and change some of their tactics in treating and handling God’s work and God’s people (pastors and ministers). The letter detailed some improprieties that I was not aware of, but only the Holy Ghost could reveal. This UPC evangelist asked me to be a witness of this letter, and to also witness him mailing it, which I did. Now I don’t know what happened to the letter after he put it in the mail, however, it would be interesting to know if the Bishop President would ever disclose receiving this letter. All I know under God is that I DID witness the existence and mailing of such a letter written to the Bishop President!
My point is this. Brethren, everything that is happening falls under God’s determined will, and under God’s permissive will. Please understand how both work, otherwise YOU run the risk of being hurt and losing out on God’s blessing. Again we are commanded to do what is TRUTH not what is RIGHT! We are to follow, obey, and submit to leaders when they follow and obey God’s Word. As a Pastor myself, I teach the church to practice this. If I violate God’s Word for my own personal gain, they have the right to bring it up to my attention so I can repent and change my ways, otherwise if I get offended at them speaking the TRUTH this is what will happen, “Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.” Mattew 15:12-14 (NIV). What is happening right know is necessary in order for the men of God to repent and change their ways, because we are not always right! Otherwise, in their blindness they will lead you astray also. When men refuse to heed God’s correction through whatever method He uses (remember God used a donkey to speak to a prophet), it is up to us to STAND by the side of God’s TRUTH!!! Not by the side of who we like or who we serve.
Support God’s process. Allow His cleansing to take place. Just like nature has season of cleaning and refreshing, so do the people of God (including the leadership). Do not close your eyes to the truth becoming blind leaders of the blind. This is happening so God can work on your leaders, and in your hearts! My sincere prayer for those that stand on the side of the Assembly leadership is that you face the fact that this could happen and is happening to the men of God, as a result of their actions. To the other side of the controversy, whatever you do in word and deed, do it with a clean heart and in a respectful manner. Do not rejoice at their suffering, but ALWAYS stick to the side of TRUTH! May God bless you and keep you during this time of sifting, “See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens. The words once more indicate the removing of what can be shaken--that is, created things-so that what cannot be shaken may remain.” Hebrews 12:25-27 (NIV).
I was doing some snooping around doing some research on apostolicassembly.info and this is what I was able to dig up:
Domain ID: D19038219-LRMS
Domain Name: APOSTOLICASSEMBLY.INFO
Created On: 16-Jul-2007 18:10:33 UTC
Registrant Street2:15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
Registrant City: Scottsdale
Registrant State/Province: Arizona
Registrant Postal Code: 85260
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.4806242599
Admin Email:APOSTOLICASSEMBLY.INFO@domainsbyproxy.com
Hmmmm... wonder who's the owner of this site. Someone in Glendale, AZ maybe? Now whoooOOOo could that be.
Come out of the closet Bishop.
Some concern has been expressed as to the author(s) of this website.(Apostolic Assembly.info)
This site was created from a personal concern over the lack of information available to our Pastoral body. Apparently the Men of God listed on this site are being attacked/persecuted by the present leadership of our Apostolic Assembly.
To anyone concerned: This site was not created at the control, request, or encouragement of any Pastor, Bishop or General Board member. Please refrain from false accusations. The purpose of this site is to provide information so we may make INFORMED decisions.
The authors’ anonymity exists to protect the integrity of the site.
Quote
A todo el cuerpo ministerial y pueblo Apostólico en general:
Salud:
Imagínense hermanos, si no hubiera esta oportunidad de comunicarnos en forma anónima por el Internet.
Estamos leyendo información y declaraciones acerca de las vidas de hombres que hemos puesto en posiciones muy elevadas e importantes. Hombres a quienes les damos todo el poder de decidir por los otros oficiales, pastores y miembros en general.
Ya hemos visto que ellos nos han fallado. Nos han mentido, han tomado ventaja de las congregaciones por medio de los Pastores, pidiendo cantidades exageradas de dinero, haciéndolo públicamente, avergonzándolos y haciendo que el pastor se lo de forzosamente, cuando el dinero ni tan siquiera es del Pastor. Es de la iglesia/la congregación.
Es triste pensar que uno de los bloggers ha dicho que piensa tan altamente de Abel Aguilar y la Mesa Directiva, que adora el piso donde andan. (2/21, 9:11 AM).
Aquí vemos que nuestra Asamblea esta tan ciega, que cuando termine esto de la corte, todos los Pastores votaran otra vez por los mismos.
Seguiremos con la corrupción, la manipulación y las metidas.
Looks like our Sammy finally lost it. First he misses a count by a 900 margin! Another one who CAN'T COUNT, not surprising! Then he's worshipping the ground! In the end he's just laughing hysterically! Do you all think its because he lost who he thought was his one "convert"?
Nobody can say I didn't try I mean I kept encouraging him to keep his appointments. I have this picture in my head of him laughing, laughing, laughing and he can't stop. Poor, poor Sammy.
Let's all say a prayer for him today. God Bless Sammy.
Dudeskie
We've been down that road before. Didn't amount to anything.
Ynos
I just saw the documents on AA.info
Here's an excerpt:
Daniel Sanchez '17. Regardless of how many nominating votes a nominee received, any nominee who did not receive the majority of votes of the Qualifying Committee was not presented to the electoral body as a candidate for the position for which they were nominated. This procedure is in compliance with the language of Article 4 (Constitution)'
Family Life Church founder dies at 70
-----------------------------
http://www.whittierdailynews.com/news/ci_8330334
I just read the article on Bro. David Hernandez. I was moved to tears as I could have been reading about our late Honorary Bishop Valentin B. Torres. Today is the six year anniversary in which the Lord chose to take him home. We were so blessed to know him. A man of such humble beginings, and who served Him with humility until his departure from this earth. He was so great in our eyes.
Our heartfelt thanks to the Lord for having loaned men such as these to us. To the family of Bro. Daniel Hernandez we truly feel your pain. I would like to comfort you in saying that know that I am sure, as in the case of V. Torres, his church members and all whose lives he touched will continue to honor him for years to come. God Bless you all.
I just read all the documents on file at the court. It won't be long before this frivilous lawsuit is dismissed and thrown out of the court.
Then, the general board of the Apostolic Assembly will be justified.
Tried, justified and ready to laydown the law with these rebellious plaintiff pastors.
Sam go back and read it again the GB doc. is full of holes.
Holes? What holes? The lawyers are right, there is no basis for the rebels argument.
This case will be dismissed. This is my prediction. The CID is valid. The three wisemen showed their wisdom by eliminating unworthy candidates.
God's decisions cannot be over ruled.
who cares what sam says, its all about march 10th!!!!
one thing is for sure, sanchez and valverde will split.
calling johnnie cochran to the scene!!!!
from apostolic assembly.info one hole is from the declarations in support of response
from martin del campo declaration (¶ 11): “on or about june 21, 2007, the general board of directors of the apostolic assembly appointed the “2006 election commission” whose purpose was to investigate whether the 2006 election was conducted in accordance with the provisions of the constitution and the c.i.d.”
del campo contradicts sanchez
from sanchez declaration (¶ 21): “the findings of the 2006 election commission were ratified by an overwhelming majority of the bishops who participated in the joint bishops meeting on april 18, 2007.”
the results were concluded in june and these conclusions were inserted at the joint bishops session in april? in our calendar april is before june ;-)!!!!!!!
is that perjury or what?
To APWC,
I note that you once again write about this UPC evangelist that was told to clean house.
My question to you is this:
Does eliminating Bishop Solomon and Bishop Fortino do this?
What fault do they have? He who is without sin let him cast the first stone...
Is putting in Edward Pacheco cleaning house. Is trying to get your buddy Joel Montes on the board cleaning house?
This same UPC evangelist you speak about predicted in the middle of a service that Aaron Aguirre and Jayme Aguilar would live happily ever after and Aaron Aguirre would become a millionare. Did you know that?
Nothing against the evangelist, but we all make mistakes, including evangelist.
You have made the point of the UPC evangelist before on this blog and why don't you quit now!
This is definitely the way God would tell someone to clean house. You don't dismiss the prayerful votes of 600 pastors and say this is cleaning house. If the AA president received such a letter he should have sent a heart felt letter to the bishops and pastors and tell them that we need to change our ways. We need to seek God's face for repentence. This is not about destroying someone's ministry, it is about restoring someone's ministry. Have you ever heard of Restoration...my brother...pastor?
God does not deal like this. God did not tell Sanchez to pull the plug on people that were clearly elected by godly pastors.
Is it that the pastors can't hear from God? If so then we need to fire all the pastors...lay them off...THEY CAN'T HEAR FROM GOD!!!They should not be preaching behind the pulpit. Right?
Mr. Independent Pastor...you remind me of a preaching by TD Jakes who says to watch out for pastor's like you.
I pray for your congregation to find their way out the back door to a Godly place in which they can be set free from bondage and a cult like setting.
TD Jakes? Are we talking about the same TD Jakes who is buddy buddy with that other crook Benny Hin? Are we talking about the same TD Jakes who is buddy with Randy White and extra chummy with Paula White?
Oh brother, nothing like using a televangelist associated with the Trinity Broadcasting Network as our point of authority.
Oh, are we talking about the same TD Jakes who is buddy buddy with TBN's Paul Crouch, who it was reported in the Los Angeles Times had a homosexual affair with one of his african american employees in his logg cabin in the mountains.
TD Jakes, nice authority figuer.
To Van:
That's the problem with people like you.
You forget that Jesus associated with:
1. Woman with five former husbands at the well
2. The prostitute woman whom the pharasee's caught in the act(cochinos).
3. Simon Peter who still had a filthy mouth after 3 years of going to Bible college with Jesus.
Shall I go on? Tax collectors (who were traitors to Jews and enforced the Romans levy's)
What is your point about TD Jakes associating with homosexuals, and cheaters,etc...?
Do you only associate with "pure" holy people? Because that is what the Pharasee's did. They only associated with other apostolics.
Just because you have the law down like the pharasees and only associate with the "pure" doesn't mean you are going to heaven.
Jesus could handle and forgive a prostitute, liar, cheater, adulter...but he couldn't stand the holy rollers like the Pharasees because they would stand on their own righteousness.
REPENT MR. VAN THE PHARASEE, YOU GENERATION OF VIPERS!!!
UPC,
The examples you used have nothing to do with the point Van was making. Your examples are simply evangelistic methods Jesus used to reach out to sinners.
UPC, your examples illustrate the people Jesus ministered to. Van was not questioning to whom we ought to minister but WITH WHOM we ought to minister.
I'll reserve my opinions about TD Jakes, Paula White and the likes for another time. I just wanted to point out to UPC that his observations do not apply to Van's point.
UPC:
Oh you poor soul. The difference between the prostitute, the tax collector, and the other sinners is that they were living in sin until they met Jesus and accepted him.
The people I listed who affiliate with TD Jakes met Jesus, accepted him and then sold him off in the open market.
Too the point where Congress is investigating the amount of money, Tax Free of course, that they make pimping Jesus and their fuzzy doctrines.
Paul Crouch went homo after he was "saved".
My dear upc:
Allow me to shed some light on the purpose of the letter I quoted from Apostolicassembly.info. For many years now, most of US pastors have known that there have been some irregularities and misuse of power by the GB. ALL PASTORS KNOW THIS! Some of us, and there are some, have spoken against these irregularities with the respect necessesary. Most, if not all, pastors, including myself have been rebuked and retilieted against we spoke the truth. And the only reaason our churches were NOT taken away was because our congregations are so well founded that they would not put up with that type of manipulation.
When the evengelist spoke, and wrote the letter, he told Sanchez to CHANGE HIS WAYS, AND THE WAYS OF THE GB, AND SOME BISHOPS HANDLE GOD'S WORK OR GOD WOULD STEP IN AND TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS.
There is a good number of pastors, I assure you, that know and understand that what is happening is of God. we are NOT associated with the plantiffs or the GB, but we know, in prayer, that this is God cleaning house at the top. There is plenty of Scripture to back up what is going on but it would be a waste of my time and yopur to try to educate you on this.
I suggest you talk to God first, learn how to respond second, and wait upon the Lord third. See in the past people like you just sat around waiting for God to do something, but waiting for God involves action. Either praying, fasting, or standing for truth, by appealing to authorities when wrongs are committed.
I personally know pastors who appealed with me but were rebuked and turned away. Now it's God's turn. The president was warned several times before the election to clean house, and he refused because God's warning came from men with lesser positions than his. Thus we find ourselves in this situation.
Finally, unless you have walked in a pstor's shoes you have no idea what we battle with, and what attacks we must endure. We have personally been told by demons that this was coming before the election ever took place. And a small remnant of men of God have been praying for the hand of God to move. and here it is.
Pray, because the worst is yet to come. and only those that have their eyes on Christ, NOT MEN will survive. God bless you.
In Christ,
APWC
Does anyone have a copy of the letter that was sent to the President about cleaning house?
This is what the gb did to Obispo Arellano.
Link Here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5B1nO2dzUlk
Van,
RE: Ishmael Arellano
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5B1nO2dzUlk
This actually is not what the GB did to Arellano. The GB rewared him with 3 more terms on the GB for being a deadbeat dad. Oh, and they were also ok with ARellano's assistant pastor being a barrista - why? Because the assistant pastor was his son-in-law. While the chruch was trying to win souls, the clergy was druggin 'em up and abandoning their children and the clergy getting rewarded for it.
This video is what they do to everyone else except themselves.
Ishmael Arellano a deadbeat?
Can someone elaborate please?
Finally, my prayers have been answered. No slanderous statements, no hatred, no lies, no false accusations being made against the holy, infallable, blessed honorable general board of the beloved apostolic assembly.
May peace and love be embraced and practiced in all of your lives today. Give peace a chance.
to Sam:
just because we ignore your pointless comments doesnt mean we agree with the GB so yeah
Sam:
Do you even know what infallable means? Get out of idolatry my friend!
My points have merit. Just like the general board, I mean the honorable general board's points have merit and will triumph in victory in court. This is a frivulous lawsuit and we will all be justified.
Learn how to spell if you want to use big words.
Definition of "Infallible" NOT "infallable" - incapable of error in setting forth doctrine on faith and morals.
So, no it doesn't apply, not by a long shot.
Why?
"incapable of error" - errors made in counting
"morals" - hopefully none are true, but we've sure learned of way more than a lot of us ever wanted to hear about.
I do not minse words. I said the honorable general board are infallible.
They are and you need to submit yourself to their decisions.
You whine and complain about the vote. I will have you know that the vote of 2 infallible members of the honorable general board are superior to the 600 votes of regular pastors, according to the CID.
Ony your secular humanistic educations would have you think that 600 is greater than 2. But the 2 are infallible and thus count as more and have more weight.
The general board remain infallible.
The petitioners to this frivilous lawsuit are incapable, incompetant, indecisive, and soon to be indigent.
God Bless the Infallible Members of the Apostolic Assembly General Board:
The Infallible Daniel Sanchez
The Infallible Samuel Valverde
The Infallible Victor O. Prado
The Infallible Edward Pacheco
The Infallible Leobardo Maffey
The Infallible Martin Del Campo
The Infallible Abel Aguilar
Sam-u, Just thought it might interest you to know that Pope Benedict will be coming to the U.S. since your specialty is "kissing the ground of the men that walk on it." I've even wondered if you're a catholic because of some of the very offensive comments you have made against God such as "I will kiss the ground the GB walks on" and "the GB are worthy of all my affection and I worship the ground they walk on" That sounds to me like idolatry.
Sam is the perfect example of the kind of disciples the GB is breeding. This is the type of mentality that has caused so many problems in the church, and now in the leasership. Keep it up Sam, you're making the AA and the GB look real "good" in the eyes of the church, courts, and world.
"Since we have such a huge crowd of men of faith watching us from the grandstands, let us strip off anything that slows us down or holds us back, and especially those sins that wrap themselves so tightly around our feet and trip us up; and let us run with patience the particular race that God has set before us. Keep your eyes on Jesus, our leader and instructor. He was willing to die a shameful death on the cross because of the joy he knew would be his afterwards; and now he sits in the place of honor by the throne of God." Hebrews 12:1-1 (TLB).
good morning everybody,
and good morning L.A. District
by the way I would like to ask if anybody here attends bro. Martin Del Campo's church and if all the rumors are true?
Quit SUBMITTING yourself to men and SUBMIT yourself to God!
Jesse What rumors?
What rumors would those be?
That him and his girl friday spend a lot of time together after hours?
That he is Sanchez's spy. Sent to spy on the Mexican AA?
That he loves Tacos?
on top of what was stated in previous posts here,that in this great general board leader's own church fornication and adultery are rampant(specially among the youth or what's left of it,that his speaking evangelistic(that's to teach you how to bring people to Christ) 2 day (approx. 4-5hours per day) conference fee was $1000.( said to me personally by him )no wonder the Black Benz he drives is always shiny!!! ....oh and don't even think about moving to another church because..guess what HE owns YOU!!
Now you accuse the honorable Obispo Martin Del Campo of being an adulturer. Speaking against the infallibles is a very dangerous matter.
Your secular humanism educations has numbed you spiritually.
Speaking slander will reap you turmoil.
Just because I respect the men of God does not mean I am catholic.
I am a type and figuer of David while you all are Goliath.
Now here come the theologians!!!
You guys are pathetic!!
why don't you stop wasting your time in here and go help your leaders start packing, what this organization needs is new mentality, leaders who see the crying need amongst our congregations, who preach relevant sermons, who actually visit the sick, the discouraged who stopped coming to church,a lot of our churches are struggling and seriously suffering, not entirely but in many cases because of the bankrupt local leaders and the best this guy can say is that he is willing to
kiss the ground these people walk on!!!You remind me of how a lot of us used to see things,
I’m only going to directly respond to you once and tell you
YOU WILL NOT STOP US FROM KEEPING EACH OTHER INFORMED,THAT WE ARE NOT IN THE DARK WHILE SEEING THE INJUSTICES THAT TAKE PLACE,IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH IT,GET OUT OF THE WAY. LET'S KEEP IT GOING!!IS ANYBODY AWARE OF ANY SPANISH BLOGS REGARDING THIS MATTER, BECAUSE THIS IS NOT EVEN THE TIP OF THE ICEBURG, IF ONLY OUR SPANISH SPEAKING BROS. WOULD KNOW........
Now, Sam-u be careful you're beginning to sound like the pharisees. Proverbs 27:2 NV. says,
"Don't praise yourself, let others do it! How can you compare yourself to David if he was a man after God's own heart? The way you speak does not reflect Christ in you especially when you speak against other men of God. Sorry! friend but it's the truth. If you were truly a man like David the venom that flows out of your mouth wouldn't be coming out.
You have got to do a lot of searching in your heart. Psalms
139:23 NV "Search me, O God, and know my heart, test my thoughts.
Whats the deal with this G12 business?
I heard it has now reached Texas (ugh), is this really the same approach that the AA is now using (cell group), or is it merely a very near coincidence?
In other words, dont just assume, but is the strategy they A has taken up, directly linked (factually please) with the G12 movement?
And if so, where doe these encuentros takes place? The AA doesnt own any cmapgrounds.. lol. and it could get really expensive... (just a seculary business oriented view of things).
Seems like Sammy Boy is kissing more then the ground they walk on.
If he keeps it up he will need a nose job.
G12? Be prepared to vomit. lol
Regarding Martin del Campo and his girl friday, IT IS TRUE. That has been happening for years.
You can ask ANY young person in the district they will verify it or ask young people that were in leadership when he was bishop.
What leadership we have!
And Sammy boy keeps on kissing the ground they walk on
LOL You are all just jelous because Obispo Martin Del Campo, as hefty and as old as he is, can still get a young lady's attention.
What a dumb horse's behind you are. With that way of thinking.
He is breaking at least 2 commandments and your cheering him on
Sam:
Oh you sorry, sorry, fool you are just chasing your own tail.
Aren't you the one who called Bro. Mendoza a "cochino" for doing just that? Get off the blogs fool!
If the young ladies have an interest in Obispo Martin Del Campo, where is the sin?
Interest does not equate sin on his part.
Again, you all are just jealous of the good bishop.
Unlike Willie Medoza who married a girl 50 younger than him.
I bet he gets those "blue pills" like by the boat load.
Like I said before, COCHINO!
Why do I get a feeling that this Sam might be a Samantha. Just the way he expresses himself makes me suspect he is from the other side of the track that's why his mind is always in the gutter. Who is the cochino here?? I'll leave it up to the rest of us with a sound mind to decide.
hey, hey you bloggers
did we not say for us to leave sammy alone. he is not worth wasting our time who ever he might be? there is really something wrong with him. he says cochino then is withdraws it then he says it again. could it be that he is closely related to the gb and flip-flopping like them?
the reason for this blog spot is the elections of the aa which is being contested by the plaintiffs.
has anyone really looked over the documents that the aa responded to? my my their declarations are full of holes as someone posted on an earlier blog.
It is with deep sadness that I reflect on the passing of Sister Lita.
Sister Alvarez suffered tremendous persecution throughout her life, raising two young boys who are now with the Lord, Abel and Eddie Alvarez by herself.
These boys were brilliant singers and musicians. They were highly gifted and talented.
Because of envy and jealousy of their abilities, A.C. Nava literally expelled them from the church of El Siloe on Hubbard and Ferris in Los Angeles in the early 1960’s.
I remember this vividly because at a youth meeting at El Siloe, Nava, who was the Pastor, came into the room and pointed out, in front of all the youth, Eddie and Abel Alvarez, and told them clearly, "I don't ever want to see you two in this church ever again."
Eddie and Abel got up with tears in their eyes and left the building, never to be seen again.
Of 30 or 40 young people that were there, NOT ONE stood up in their defense. I guess they would have been blackballed, too.
I tell you this as God is my witness, it is the absolute truth.
I still have horrible feelings about that event.
These young men attempted to attend other Apostolic churches but they were completely black balled.
Sister Lita, also a gifted, talented and hard worker for the Dorcas, dedicated her life and strength to the Service of the Lord.
She confided in me that she always felt very alone in raising her children as a single parent. Her mother in law, a saintly woman, a prayer warrior, Sister Inez Alvarez was the one who brought her to church together with the children.
Our deepest condolences are for her children, Terry Tafoya, Bertha Tafoya, Inez Alvarez and Queto Alvarez, and all the grandchildren.
This family is no longer with the Apostolic Assembly. They have gone to independent churches or the UPC. It is a shame that we have lost gifted and talented families such as this one because of jealousy and envy of the great leadership qualities they inherited from their mother. Others in power could not let them grow into leaders.
This scenario is repeated in hundreds of first generation Apostolic families.
It is a shame that other denominations have accepted them wholeheartedly. It is our loss because of the hatred that is in the AA toward one another.
It is no wonder that we are in the crisis we now face.
Maybe that is why we bring in men like Martin del Campo, they keep our standards low, and mediocrity as the focus.
A.C. Nava brought control, manipulation, black balling, hatred, election fraud, you name it, into the church, and many of those who are even now in the lawsuit learned those lessons well.
I ran into this quote from Napoleon Bonaparte, and it reminds so much of the AA and dishonorable general board.
Quote
"I am surrounded by priests who repeat incessantly that their kingdom is not of this world, and yet they lay their hands on everything they can get." -- Napoleon Bonaparte
They have their hands on the money, the power and sad to say some women to, and el presidente
Sanchez looks the other way.
History repeats itself.
The Nava curse is still alive and the black balling of gifted men of God still goes on.
Respect the Bishops?
I ask where is their respect for us?
Are we not also God's anionted?
They demand respect and have no idea how to give it.
little Eddie
I totaly Agree with you some of the people that have posoitions dont respect and thats one thing BISHOP Torres said at the distrcit elections on Feb 16th in Odessa Texas that if you want respect you have to give respect that respect is not for free you Gain the respect if you watch the video that I posted on myspace you will be able to hear him say that
"Give respect and you'll get respect"?
Are you guys serious? Torres makes that statement while Aguilar, Maffey and Pachueco are playing him like a two dollar call girl from a Juarez house of ill repute.
Nah, he need to stand up and have a pair like he did with his letter to Sanchez, then to follow it up with a lawsuit against the group of idiots, known as the gb.
These fools, known as the gb, are playing dirty politics with their power and now it needs to come back at them, and their silver spoon fed offspring, like the Aguilar kids, whom in the real world aren't qualified to work at starbucks but are paid to "prophesy" the millionaire blessing on our people.
Shameful.
If you look at the National Missions web page you'll see that both Jason and Jeff are on the committee.
How nice!
That probably means they both get to travel, wine and dine on the company credit card.
They have been taught real good how to scam and live off the hermanos.
Don't worry Sanchez if you lose Pacheco you got a eager new crop of scammers ready to take over.
http://www.nationalmissions.org/committee.html
Van
The "trio" are not playing him like anything of the sort. A lesser man would not have even shown up to face the music. What Bro. Torres did without intention I'm sure was an "in your face" to them by showing up and then being asked to speak and addressing not only the congregation but them also. They may think they're playing him, but he would never play anyone, he wouldn't resort to their tactics. You all should have seen them hightail it out of there! Pretty funny.
Bro. Torres is only doing what no one has EVER had the courage to do and that's to call them on the carpet on their illegal actions and remaining firm to his convictions against all obstacles.
When will Jason and Jeff have the spiritual nerve to get out of their confort zone, of gullible CT members and GROUPIES and actually do some real ministerial work?
You Papi can only carry you so far.
Head out to fields in the Central Valley and pray for all the field workers to become millionaires.
Then give them some boxes of Tsechunga Blast....
Abel Aguilar - Screamer
Jason Aguilar - Dropout Scammer
Jeff Aguilar - Dropout Scammer
Another day of scamming the hermanos.
Where can I get my $50.00 ticket for Pastors Day?
Render unto Cesar what is Cesars, Render unto the Aguilars what is not the Aguilars, your Wallet.
Unfortunately that’s how WE have allowed these fatcats to live, who do you think finances their lifestyles? There is NO accountability at all !!
Why? Because that’s how we were indoctrinated
Also, why do some pastors feel that they have to pass on the church leadership to some family member of relative, just because you share the same last name doesn’t mean your are called to the ministry!!
Has anybody been through this experience or know of any?
Due to the recent recession the price of the pastor's day tickets are now $75.00
Of course that still includes a hand shake and a pat on the back.
does any local church have any kind of annual performance review for a pastor??
does any church have any review board??
Not only that, Bro. Aguilar also included his brother-n-law, a minister(?) Marc Payan and Joel Montes (Montes couldn't get elected to the GB EVEN WITH CID!!!). I guess this is the 'bone' they threw to Montes.
Joel Montes just missed being on the DGB by 2 votes
I think we should all join cyberwize. They claim we can get a brand new car and they make the payments.
Sounds like a Eddie Pacheco retro moment!
http://www.cyberwize.com/_cyberwize/content/opp/oppCarBonus.asp
Linda Q. Montes
Bishop and pastor's wife in Houston, Texas. With over 30 years of leadership experience, she has dedicated her life to the teaching of the Apostolic message to women in a practical way. Her life is marked by a tremendous burden to see lives changed by the Love of God. Her passion for prayer and commitment to truth has created a demand for her ministry. She continues her ministry with a passion and conviction to impact women to accomplish great things in the work of the Lord.
Accomplishments:
BA - Theology
Bible School Internship: Costa Rica
_________________________________
Business: UP, Inc., Cyberwize
________________________________
Hispanic Marketing Director/Master Trainer
Responsible for setting up 11 distribution centers in Mexico
Conference/Seminar Key Note Speaker for National Women's Auxiliary
Proud mother of 3 Sons.
4. In and around January 2005, Bishop President DANIEL
23 SANCHEZ asked Pastor Edward Pacheco and myself to clearly define the
24 terms "capabilities, qualities and rights" as such terms are used in
25 Article 5 of the APOSTOLIC ASSEMBLY Constitution.
Quote Ismael del Campo
Sanchez you need to call this two to define three new words "Fraud,conspiracy and perjury.
what a wonderful resume (sis.Montes) but you also forgot to include that another one of her wonderful talents is being in charge of platform decoration at the general convention!!!!
what exactly qualifies Pacheco and Del Campo to clarify such important terms? does Del Campo even speak english fluently or does this GB board member need a transalator? oh but wait everything in the constitution is written in spanish first and then transalated english..i stand corrected!!
"Accomplish great things"??
Such as what? For example.......
Women can and have "accomplished great things" throughout the history or our church. First and foremost - they birthed you and I, anyone would call that a pretty great accomplishment!
In God's ministry women back their husbands through prayer, support and work, and they also raise their children singlehandedly while their husbands are away.
Women are also the first to lead in fundraising. I'd bet you can ask any local church treasury and guess who raises more money, yeah the ladies auxiliary - pretty great,huh.
They work incessantly, and they are the first ones with prayer, food, etc., when a church member or church members relative dies. Women are just GREAT!
A while back some ignorants were calling our dear church ladies some pretty bad names about their size. Better to be big and a great lady than to be as little bitty as those ignorants.
LADIES OF OUR CHURCH A SALUTE TO ALL OF YOU, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
Better to be obese? If I recall, gluttony is a sin. I'm not saying this to be funny or mean either.
With all due respect, our church/church culture has a thing about excess food.
Our children are little gorditos. Diabetes is literally killing off the church. Pastor Hernandez passed away due to complications of diabetes, as well as his brother. Our own beloved Malverde is a diabetic as well as is Martin Del Campo.
We built churches with the tamale ministry. But we were the ones buying and esting all those tamales.
How many of our churches now have soda machines? Or vending machines to sell candy to the church?
I bet there would be an uproar if the pastor allowed a drug dealer onto the church grounds to sell weed. Yet we serve up the processed sugar like nothing.
Just my thoughts
All that has been said is just good and fine, but what about the comment about the second, third and fourth generations of people who have been pushed out of the church out of greed and envy.
In the same way Nava ousted the Alvarez boys, Baldemar ousted by blackballing, Nat Tafoya, brother of Art Tafoya, and so many others and no one dares to stand up to the Board and defend anyone else.
We really do not care for one another. It is not only Pacheco, Valverde, Aguilar and Sanchez, but this practice goes back so much further and is still among us.
Nava taught Baldemar good, and with this lawsuit, Baldemar is moving to control from a distance just as Nava did for so many years.
Bro Analyst:
You are making ACN to be some kind of salvation killer.
If the Alvarez boys had some character, or a pair, they would have not left nor abandoned the AA.
I just hope they didn't live a bitter life over the decision, non binding decision at that of one man.
If they did, then they was some weak ash people. Think of that as a trial. Did they handle that little bit of adversity well?
There were other men at that time, in the 60's, fighting such things as the Military Draft, going to Vietnam and dying in some lonely jungle.
And the Alvarez brother whoosed over not being allowed to go to El Siloe?
El Sleep Loe, I mean El Siloe is a cursed church anyways. The Pastor there now is a jerk who doesn't even know the Word. Furthermore, that church has produced more homos and lesbos than any other.
The Alvarez should have leaped for joy. Its not like they were facing the Viet Cong. Or better yet, not like they were being led off to be lynched.
Van
Thank you for an insightful response. You are right that El Siloe is a bad church.
However, if Efrain Valverde who President at the time, was not able to stand up to the Wrath of Nava, these 15 and 16 year old teenagers didn’t stand a chance in __ll.
I would venture further to say, that the Viet Cong may have killed the physical but Nava managed to killed the soul.
He was against the Alvarez boys because another boy in the church was extremely jealous of them, and Nava was very close to the other boy’s mother.
Keep in mind that in that Great Day, the shepherds will be held accountable for the treatment of the sheep.
Analyst:
So, at El Siloe, a boy was jelous of the Alvarez boys?
Wow. I know some things are generational, but geesh.
How is it some churches seem to pass from family member to family member.
El Siloe, it passed from the elder Rodriguez to the jerk son Rodriguez Jr.
Malverde got Fontana from his cousin Fast Eddie Pachuco.
Looks like FLC will pass from Hernandez to Hernandez.
Anaheim was passed from Sanchez to his Son in law G. Lopez.
Ontario was passed from Jimenez Sr. to Jimenez Jr.
Faith Tabernacle was passed from Morales Sr. to Morales Jr.
Sion was passed from Maffey Sr to Maffey Jr.
Solana Beach was passed from Rodriguez Sr to Rodriguez Jr.
Santa Ana was passed from Meza to son in law Aguilar, who is building his CT Phiefdom, or is it Fieifdom or is it Thiefdom?
And the list goes on and on....
We don't practice democracy, as is outlined, or was outlined in our Bylaws and Constitution.
We practice Dictatorship. Sanchez is our Fidel Castro.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I introduce to you a new and improved organization that will hopefully one day take over the world:
The Afghanistolic Assembly
Introducing our suicide bombers:
Maffey and Pacheco who gladly gave up their reputations by detonating themselves in a Texas church in order to topple the non-submissive bishop. Social suicide is rewarded with the assurance that you will be re-elected during the next election by ANY means.
Introducing the tax collectors:
They are the hands and feet of the great dictator. They step into to large events and manipulate and instill fear to all those that listen in order to generate large offerings. They belittle pastors in public for not giving and shame them by asking them if they "are on wellfare or something?" Hell is your doom for not giving because your 7 year old would then not have lunch money the next day.
Introducing the Flor Azul:
Which is quite appropriate for Afghanistolic woman. Their oppression has caused them to become blue(Azul), lifeless and insignificant flores. They are forced to neglect their outer appearance and must always wear a covering during worship. Due to man's demand for women to neglect their outer appearance, the man becomes dissatisfied with his woman and thus feels it is ok to run off with the neighbor who in contrast with his current wife, looks like a PB model.
Introducing the great dictator:
He is cunning, a good speaker and can worm his way out of any kind of situation. He is not to be rebelled against, otherwise you will be beheaded. No, not physically, beheaded spiritually and socially. Your identity will be stripped and be given a new name, "rebel". He appears to be the lord of heaven and hell, bring down and bringing up whom he desires. Many are fooled by his terrorism into thinking that he indeed holds the keys and thus we MUST follow him!
Ladies and gentlemen, in a nutshell, I present to you the:
AFHGANISTOLIC ASSEMBLY, whose business plan is patterned after a very familiar extremist group called, The Taliban.
DISCLAIMER: If you claim that this is what being spiritual is all about, and do not see the similarities between the AFGHANISTOLIC and the Taliban, then you're perfect for the job. Please sign up.
AposTaliban
Well put frijol.
I heard that during convention Adam Lopez was gloating about how much money he picked up for offering by using the Missionaries to go and stand up on the platform, and handing out checks to them only to have Abel Aguilar after the service go and take the checks away.
This is a Quote from el Presidente's Presidential Thoughts
"As we have begun to tread the beginnings of this new cycle, we covet your prayers that the Lord will give us wisdom and faithfulness to fulfill that which He has entrusted upon us."
----------------------------------
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves" — Matthew 7:15
Words spoken by Paul
I have not coveted anyone's silver or gold or clothing.
You yourselves know that these hands of mine have supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions.
In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.' "
Acts 20:33,34,35
Afar cry from our Illegal Dishonor General Board.
To the all legal experts: Its this valid?
it 1S
5 clear that this court has no jurisdiction to declare the 2006
6 invalid or to relieve the elected General Board of Directors of
7 their duties. Any such actions would constitute an undue government
8 intrusion with the APOSTOLIC Assembly's First Amendment freedoms.
Quote Acain
Hello, it means your frilous lawsuit has no merit and will soon be dismissed. I'm suprised it has not been dismissed so far. Give it 30 more days and this nonsense will be over. The apostolic church will be restored and the great cleaning of the Judas' of consenting pastors and bishops among us will be completed.
Van
Yes, you apparently know alot about the church, El Siloe, in L.A. Let me just give you a deeper history on it.
Originally, this church was purchased in the early 1960’s by a congregation that was separate from AC Nava. This church was named “El Templo la Hermosa.”
The original El Siloe was situated on 14th and Central Ave, in South Central LA.
AC Nava decided he needed a bigger church building so he sold the property on 14th and Central, and where the money went, we never knew because he did not buy another church property.
He ousted the Pastor from El Templo la Hermosa, combining the two congregations of El Siloe and Templo la Hermosa, and appointing himself as Pastor.
He eliminiated ‘Templo la Hermosa’ and kept the name of the combined congregations as ‘El Siloe.’
The two congregations merged and AC Nava got his way as well as the proceeds from the sale of El Siloe on 14th and Central.
Nava also had, in years past, ousted Hno. Lupe Lara and took over Lara’s congregation so this was not a new move for him.
As fate would have it, Nava had to move to Union City because of the auto accident he had, and the church was passed over to two other pastors.
But eventually, AC Nava installed his choice of Pastor, Stanley Rodriguez, the father of Abel Rodriguez who is now the actual Pastor.
This is all a political move that hurt so many people. A lot of people left to other churches when Rodriguez took over.
That church is now almost empty. Abel Rodriguez, the Pastor, lives upstairs above the church, where the Sunday School rooms used to be. He cannot live away from the church because there are no financial resources to afford a parsonage.
The General Board overlooks all these shenanigans because this church property is in a prime LA area and the General Board keeps refinancing it over and over as they need or want the money. No other Pastor would tolerate this.
This, my dear Bro., is dirty politics in its fullness.
Abel Rodriguez converted the 2nd level to his own house?
How Sad! What a loser! I mean its not like he just got out of bible college. Wait, did he go to bible college? Or was that Tomos II he went to?
He's like 50 years old. What a shame. How embarassing. He's all english and the neighborhood is all Paisano. Go figuer.
I bet he collects Welfare too.
Well, he can't be that bad off. The last time I saw him at a district function, it didn't look like he was starving. lol
The Fleecing of the Apostolic Assembly.
Let's see if these sacred leaders of ours are fleecing our membership. Help me out with some of this info:
Daniel Sanchez:
1. Number of houses owned:
1.B Estimated Value:
2. Year, make and model of car(s):
3. Does he own any timeshares,
boats, vacation property?
4. Do any of his direct family
have any employment/contracts
with the AA?
Samuel Valverde:
1. Number of houses owned:
1B .Estimated Value:
2. Year, make and model of car(s):
3. Does he own any timeshares,
boats, vacation property?
4. Do any of his direct family
have any employment/contracts
with the AA?
Edward Pacheco:
1. Number of houses owned:
1B. Estimated Value:
2. Year, make and model of car(s):
3. Does he own any timeshares,
boats, vacation property?
4. Do any of his direct family
have any employment/contracts
with the AA?
Leobardo Maffey:
1. Number of houses owned:
1B. Estimated Value:
2. Year, make and model of car(s):
3. Does he own any timeshares,
boats, vacation property?
4. Do any of his direct family
have any employment/contracts
with the AA?
Victor Prado:
1. Number of houses owned:
1B. Estimated Value:
2. Year, make and model of car(s):
3. Does he own any timeshares,
boats, vacation property?
4. Do any of his direct family
have any employment/contracts
with the AA?
In the Los Angeles District..
does anybody remember our past 3 bishops, Barbosa,Galaviz,and specially Del Campo...
bros. from Texas it is possible to survive what happend to you guys down there, because we as a district are still here despite our leaders not because of them....
This is just from the table of contents for the "Responsive Brief" dated 02/21/2008.
THANK GOD THIS SHOW IS ABOUT OVER!!
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Page
MEMORANDUM OF POINTS AND AUTHORITIES 1
I. INTRODUCTION 1
XI. FACTS 2
A. NOVEMBER 2006 ELECTION PROCEDURES 2
B. CAPABILITY, QUALITIES AND
RIGHTS (C.I.D.) 4
III, THIS COURT LACKS JURISDICTION TO
OVERTURN THE 2006 ELECTION OR TO
ORDER A NEW ELECTION 5
IV. EVEN IP THIS COURT HAD JURISDICTION
TO REVIEW THIS CONTROVERSY THERE IS
NO FACTUAL OR LEGAL BASIS FOR WHICH
TO IMMEDIATELY DECLARE THE 2006 ELECTION
INVALID 7
X. PLAINTIFFS HAVE NO STANDING TO SEEK
A COURT ORDER , 8
B. COURT ACTION IS UNNECESSARY BECAUSE
PLAINTIFFS HAVE FAILED TO PRESENT
EVIDENCE OF IMPROPRIETY RELATED TO THE
2006 ELECTION 9
1. The appointment and actions of
tha Qualifying Committee ware in
accordance with the Constitution 9
2. The other "irregularities" cited
by the plaintiffs did noc
detrimentally affect the electoral
process 11
3. Plaintiffs' highly speculative
theories about defendants'
post-election conduct is not a
sufficient basis for which to
overturn the election results 12
C. PLAINTIFFS REQUESTED RELIEF IS NOT
VALID AS THERE ARE LEGALLY
AVAILABLE ALTERNATIVES 13
IV. CONCLUSION. 14
TO Jesse
What did you like or dislike of our former Bishops?
Anyone have any documentation from the 2/28 Court date? I haven't seen anything on AA.info yet
To Jesse & Insider,
Look @ AA.info and you'll find the Author of CID - Martin del Campo.
There's a letter he sent to the City of Los Angeles. In this letter he discredits/defames two leaders - A National Leader (Rev. Joe Lopez) and a former District Leader (Rev. Michael Arroyo).
He did this because he & his subordinate(s) were 'caught with their pants down'.
He never sent a letter of apology or retraction.
A LETTER FROM THE HEART:
I am saddened for feeling as though we have lost the “heroes” of our youth. You see, I remember some of our now current GB leaders whom many of us have “known” since we were “jovenes“. We have proudly heard of these once young men throughout the years and of their progress and growth within the church from afar, we once knew them as “Jose”, “Juan” or maybe “Benito”. These were the “on fire” young men of the 70’s who attended CBAN and traveled on their “giras” to our churches. They stayed in our homes and ate with us, they were like us. They brought so much enthusiasm especially to the youth and we thought so highly of them. It was always so great when they came through and they became household names for us, we never forgot them, we thought of them not only as our brothers in Christ but as our friends.
I recall not too long ago one of these brothers was visiting our church and I had not seen him in 30 years, so I proceeded to address him and enjoyed a short reminiscent conversation. I didn’t think twice about addressing him or about calling him just “Benito” although he was now a member of the GB. Nowadays it appears we are even instructed on ways to address the “higher-ups”. I’ve heard that a Bishop’s wife is to be addressed as “first lady”, next will we be asked to bow or curtsy. When did we all stop being the same, they and us, you know, just “Hermanos“ and “Hermanas“? I recall a past President who graced our home on several occasions, he ate our humble meals and warmed with us by the stove, and he didn’t just fly here first class and stay in a hotel, his visits were personable and we have such great memories of those beautiful times. I mean, sure there’s an order of things and there’s President, Vice-President and so on for the sake of leadership, but the rest of us are not any lesser persons. WE are who make them who they are, without us they are only “Jose“, “Juan“ or “Benito“ all over again. Surely, respect is important, but only if it is well EARNED and we shouldn’t be asked to worship them.
I reiterate that in recalling these young men from long ago I have talked about them over the years with pride to others and to my own children when they became “jovenes”, as if they were our closest friends. Now to hear not only all that has been said on the blogs, but of the wellknown improprieties in the handling of the elections it is sad to think that we may have lost the “heroes” of our youth. It was shocking to learn that “our friends, our heroes” could have been a part of such a sham.
Brothers of our heart, please allow us to believe in you once again. Be those “on fire” young men who had a vision, an honest vision for the future of the Church. Do what’s right to save our beloved organization. Do not let arrogance or pride get in the way, humble yourselves so that you may be blessed. If you’ve stumbled along the way, dust yourself off and ask God’s forgiveness and start anew with the vision you once had. Going on a “gira” now to remove our fine Bishops, Pastors, etc. who perhaps also once admired you and are your brothers is surely not God’s will. Can you not deduce from the tremendous outpour of support and admiration for what Bishop Abel Torres is doing that the majority of the people have spoken and that the truth shall prevail or that even if by some farce you should “win” in the courts you still will certainly have lost in the eyes of God and God’s people.
A wise saying,“if only one person tells you that you are wrong, you might ignore him, but if two, three or four tell you the same thing perhaps you should listen”. Brothers, I urge you to regain our respect by allowing the Lord to guide you once again. God Bless.
(I would have sent this letter directly to the GB but the word is that they just dump all correspondence in the trash.)
Edward Pacheco likes to be called Your Royal Highness and makes everyone wait in line to shake his hand. He would have them kiss his hand, but he will soon.
I've seen Bishops wives walk in with their noses so high in the air that they scrape the ceiling.
We're nothing to them that's why they hide behind the pulpit and preach don't go up against God's anionted. Because they know if we questioned their actions they would lose all their power and have to get of the gravy train.
One even uses her husbands position to con the hermanos to buy into her cyberwize scam, which she brags about bringing her sons in to work with her. We have a new crop of scammers waiting in the winds to take over the AA.
02/28/2008 REPLY/SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS RECEIVED AND FORWARDED TO LEGAL RESEARCH FOR HRG ON 3/10/08 Not Applicable
02/28/2008 DECLARATION OF BALDEMAR RODRIGUEZ FILED Not Applicable
02/28/2008 OBJECTION TO EVIDENCE AND MOTION TO STRIKE FILED. Not Applicable
02/28/2008 REPLY OF SAUL AVILA, BALDEMAR RODRIGUEZ, DANIEL SALOMON, ABEL TORRES TO SETTING ASIDE THE ELECTION DATED 11/24/06 FILED
We_Care:
Send your letter in a tithing envelope. They wont throw it away, they'll be fight over who gets to open it.
V-Day,
GOOD ONE! Thanks for the heads up.
TO IAM
I am not infavor of Bishop del TACO but Bro. Lopez and Arroyo were using a Los Angeles Address not being from the L A District. (Bottom line they were lying)
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