Honorable Bishop President Daniel Sanchez,
I greet you in the name of our loving Savior Jesus Christ. I pray God's blessing and wisdom upon you and your family.
The purpose of my letter is to address the matter of the removal of Former Bishop Abel Torres.
As you are aware the movements of the General Board are posted on this site daily. Prior to your visit to Texas, the agenda of your travels was published on this site. The outcome of your meeting with Brother Torres was immediately published on this site. The outcome of your visit with the Pastors of their respective district was again immediately published on this site.
Although many disagree with the purpose of this website, it has become a gathering place for those who LOVE this heritage of the Apostolic Assembly. The amount of visitors to this site is astonishing. Those who take time to post are passionate about their feelings. Some are well articulated and some are crass and rude. But nonetheless they are passionate! No one, not one, wants to leave this beloved organization. That, My Dear Bishop President, is LOVE.
Many view this lawsuit as addressing a plague affecting this organization. Many view this lawsuit as the affliction itself. Which ever side the constituents of this Assembly are on, we seem to agree on one thing: Brother Abel Torres was wrongfully removed.
Bishop President Sanchez, respectfully I submit to you a personal story.
I once held a secret clearance for a government agency for a line of work I was in. Prior to my employment with this agency I underwent a very stringent and lengthy background test which included psychological tests, physical test, criminal checks, 30 year background checks, social affiliations, credit checks, drug tests and mental aptitude tests. This process took several months. By the grace of God, and God fearing parents who instructed me on the value of my testimony, I gained clearance and proceeded to work diligently for a number of years in this environment.
Several opportunities arose which required a move to the private sector. Upon leaving the government agency, my superior officer told me, "We are losing a valuable asset, if you are not happy with your new duties do not hesitate to come back. We will only have to review from the time of this termination to the time of your reinstatement request. You are already cleared and on record from this date backward". This meant if I chose to return, I would not have to undergo all the previous test again. I would only be accountable for the time I left this agency and the time I requested to return. My clearance up unto that point was granted.
Respectfully I bring these items to you attention.
1. Brother Torres was voted in by an overwhelming margin as Bishop of his respective district. The local pastors were and are aware of his involvement this lawsuit but still held fast in their hearts and spirit they wanted him to lead their district. This was because of his integrity, character and record.
2. Brother Abel Torres, under the existing CID, was approved to charge the office of District Bishop. The opportunity arose to disqualify Brother Torres from the District election for reasons of insubordination or rebellion but the election committee felt he was qualified nonetheless. Brother Torres gracefully accepted this position and communicated his desire to continue God's work through the office of Bishop and bring resolve to the aforementioned matter.
3. During Brother Torres' short administration as Bishop, he worked with humility, integrity and the fear of God. He did not use his position to bring reproach to the General Board or the Apostolic Assembly. He did not use his position as leverage on behalf of the plaintiff's of the lawsuit. Rather he worked to bring the parties together as a peacemaker.
4. On December 28, Brother Torres was removed from the Office of Bishop. Brother Torres gracefully accepted the General Board's removal of his title. He did not use this action to bring reproach to the General Board or the Apostolic Assembly.
My beloved Bishop President, I submit to you 1 Corinthians 13: 4-7.
4.Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5.It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6.Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7.It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Although comments on this website fall short of reflecting of this scripture, I would suggest that Brother Torres does not. His actions are that of love - (13. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love).
I addressed the disclosure or awareness of the movements of the General Board and actions during the dates leading and up to the removal of Brother Torres from Bishop to also bring to light that we are also aware that Brother Torres did no wrong doing whatsoever during his term as Bishop. I would suggest to you that had their been impropriety on Brother Torres' behalf, it would have been well documented on this website and should be held responsible for those
actions if true.
Since Brother Torres was accepted as Bishop during the district election, and there was no impropriety on his part during his administration and reason for removal, we are asking that Brother Torres be re-instated as Bishop of his respective district.
He was granted clearance by the local pastors of his district, he was granted clearance by the election committee and General Board. And he did nothing during his administration to remove said clearance up until the time he was stripped of his position and until present.
The local pastors and leaders again called upon his reinstatement the same day by their actions in re voting and calling upon him to be their Bishop. This should be taken as a vote of confidence on his behalf.
My beloved Bishop President. there are many matters in our Assembly that need to be addressed and corrected. We know that they cannot be changed over night. However, we do not need to keep adding to that list.
I know it is a great burden that is on the shoulders of you and your administration, I pray that God grants you the strength and wisdom to keep the flame burning.
I ask that you please reinstate Bishop Abel Torres as Bishop. It is the right thing to do.
With Respect and Love,
Apostolic Voice
952 comments:
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that just means the plaintiffs have filed their declarations or their documents sustaining their cause of actions advising the defs on what grounds they are being sued in by citing their reasons and other cases-- they need to do this before the motion hearing on the 10th- they've submitted their points and authorities (P&As)- the disposition column- just means the status of the entry- either it is continued (rescheduled), vacated (taken off calendar)- if it's not applicable- that's self -explanatory.
DID ANYONE notice that Art Tafoy filed his declaration??? Is he now a plaintiff?? Has anyone SEEN a copy of the AMENDED complaint???
surely as the wind blows from the east and snow cometh from the south, the vipers of this wicked and decieving generation of venumous snakes shall make their home amoung the lizzards and the fowl. you shall be smitted with a great and mighty smite upon the rocks your heads will tumble to be a venum no more. the god's appointed and annointed shall preach a great and mighty preaching and save souls to replace the place what was reserved for you who turned your backs to the annointing to fullfill your hearts desire of a great and mighty lie, lies that cannot bare truth but only bare more lies lies that are not true shall be made false for thiere authors are liers and their father is great and mighty father of lies for there is no truth in him. this is the word spoken to you generation of venumous vipers.
juan 3:16 ay ya yai
Porque hay tanta cosa no muy buena en tus escritos.
Donde esta porque de tal manera amo Dios al mundo.
Respondeme por que soy nuevo en esta honda.
To John 3:16
It would be nice to communicate with you but you are too judgemental.
Who has appointed you as a prophet?
If you represent John 3:16, you are not practicing it but are spouting condemnation, the total opposite of that great verse that gives all humanity hope.
Concentrate on this so you won’t be so bitter and self righteous.
“But the Fruit of the Spirit is Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Kindness, Goodness, Faith.” Galatians 5:22.
You sound exactly like a basher and a self righteous ‘wanna be’ Apostolic Assembly Golfer. Are you Adam Lopez?
Re: John 3:16 - the person
He or she used to come in and post these ridiculous comments similar to these. I tried to engage him/her in a more serious discussion, but would get the same "thus" and "keepers of the storehouse" jargon. Just ignore the comments "John 3:16" posts and eventually he/she will go away until the next development. I honestly believed this person was simply trying to get reactions as a joke or this person is spiritually and mentally unstable.
To John 3:16
"Like a fluttering sparrow or a darting swallow, an undeserved curse does not come to rest." Proverbs 26:2.
To John 3:16
"Like cutting off one's feet or drinking violence is the sending of a message by the hand of a fool. Like a lame man's legs that hang limp is a proverb in the mouth of a fool. Like tying a stone in a sling is the giving of honor to a fool. Like a thornbush in a drunkard's hand is a proverb in the mouth of a fool. Like an archer who wounds at random is he who hires a fool or any passer-by. As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly." Proverbs 26:6-11 (NIV).
"I honestly believed this person was simply trying to get reactions as a joke or this person is spiritually and mentally unstable."
Sounds like a Malverde or HGB boardmember to me... ja-ja
I wouldn't put naything past them.. lol
hey what happend to the AA sponsored Taganska Blast Movement..?? lol
i say it was sponsored becuz the malverdes, aguilars, and a few other untouchables were the ones pimping that juice under the veil of religion and prosperity???
My bet is if we ignore his/her comments and not respond-- he/she will go away for a while-- he/she is trying to deflect attention away from whatever the topic is at the moment.
Anyway. . .
"DID ANYONE notice that Art Tafoy filed his declaration??? Is he now a plaintiff?? Has anyone SEEN a copy of the AMENDED complaint???"
QUOTE
About the Taganska Blast Movement. Linda Montez from houston was one of the main ring leaders.
She even bragged that her two sons were working with her, and how delighted she was to have them working by her side. That it had brought them closer.
Like I say that family that scams together stays together.
The two sons are being brought up to lead the AA in fashion of the Dishonorable Board Member Edward Pacheco. To rape the hermanos of their hard earned money.
is this the same Linda Montez that with her husband Joel bought the church property for $10.00 there in Hoston
Yep its the same one. keep it all in the family.
wow man propertys in Houston are pretty cheap
for the time hath surely come and time will tell that the lies the great decievers and slanderers of the keepers of the storehouse tell shall reap the sour and bitter vinigor waters that flow from the mouth of the great deciefer. your fruit hath surely withered away and bares no longer fruit. you workers of inquinity shall share a lying place in the inner most parts of the hell where it flows of fire and brimestone where not even your venomouns vinigor shall quench your own mouths. repentance is too late for your for you have casted yourselfs away and given your sould down to the great deciever from hell. the time hath come and the time hath past for the time cannot be redeemed for you have surely spent and wasted your time in the time spend in your evil and wicked plan and actions against the appointed of god to guard his great and mighty storehouse. this word hath been spoked to you this day.
John 3:16
Quote, To John 3:16
"As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly." Proverbs 26:11(NIV).
Anybody making plans to go hear the Dishonorable Edward Pacheco preach at endtimes on March 6th.
Maybe during the day you can catch him and his golfing buddy Adam Lopez playing golf.
time will come when on march 6th the great and mighty man of god will preach an mighty message for all humanity for mankind will need to attend at all cost for on this day god's annointed keeper of the storehouse will deliver a great and mighty message for all the world to hear. notes shall be taken to absorb the great and mighty word to be delivered by his mighty and humble servant.
Well, we know that John 3:16 IS NOT Pacheco's son-in-law John Huizar- because as you all probably have heard by now-- he's left his church and Pacheco's daughter Yvie- naturally has followed suit. I hear they are pastoring a church now- outside of our organization.
When are they going to finish building that temple of theirs? I hear it is at a stand still.
Hmmmm, it seems like Pacheco's world is slowly caving in.
Building the church?
I heard the money has vanished.
John 3;16 sounds like it could be the dishonorable 2 vote eddie or his buddy Adam Lopez
On John 3:16's
"great and mighty man of god "
wow.. now that sounds freaking creepy. these were the exact same words spoken of
- David Koresh
- Jim Jones
- Warren Jeffs
To name a few...
Take notice the use of the cingular form that is used... he is not "A man of..." but rather "the man...".
this has always been a fear of mine when I ponder on the radicals and zealots found in the assembly. To have this view is dangerous, and borderline nuerotic. It blinds you from self-examiniation, fraud, abuse, and deceipt.
What a sad state of affairs.
Hey CHairman Mao:
You are so right, I also think that John 3:16 is one of the General Board family.
They are trying to fillabuster the blog to keep us from discussing the lawsuit, the defendants and the consentors and all the new or pertinent info that comes out here.
Amen
OK, So being that I should consider myself more of a secularist, than a spiritualist, I tend to read books thatw ould never be found being sold at the "COnvention Flea Market" lol.
My most recent readings have been more of a review of Thomas Paine's "Common Sense" (I'll paste the partcicular passage in my next posting, in case you wish to ignore it, and move on to another post. Well that and in case you think you go to hell if you ever read anything not found in the Bible.. lol.
In this particular passage he is talking about Monarchy, but you can easily see the parrallels between Monarchy and the current Leadership structure of the AA. Maybe its me, but when you Read this passage, I see the attitudes of our current HGB, and sadly enough I don't see many Gideons.
If you care to read the rest of the passage I will provide the URL. It's a small book, but makes for a very interesting read.
Wow, who knew you could actually be enlightend by soemthing else other than "Arboles de (in)Juscticia" lol....
http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/
My next reading is Jean-Jacques Rousseau's "the Social COntract".. oooo writings from a secularist Frenchman of all things.. lol.. i am soo gettign condemnded! lol
How impious is the title of sacred Majesty applied to a worm, who in the midst of his splendor is crumbling into dust!
As the exalting one man so greatly above the rest cannot be justified on the equal rights of nature, so neither can it be defended on the authority of scripture; for the will of the Almighty as declared by Gideon, and the prophet Samuel, expressly disapproves of government by Kings.
All anti-monarchical parts of scripture have been very smoothly glossed over in monarchical governments, but they undoubtedly merit the attention of countries which have their governments yet to form. "Render unto Cesar the things which are Cesar's" is the scripture doctrine of courts, yet it is no support of monarchical government, for the Jews at that time were without a king, and in a state of vassalage to the Romans.
Near three thousand years passed away, from the Mosaic account of the creation, till the Jews under a national delusion requested a king. Till then their form of government (except in extraordinary cases where the Almighty interposed) was a kind of Republic, administered by a judge and the elders of the tribes. Kings they had none, and it was held sinful to acknowledge any being under that title but the Lord of Hosts. And when a man seriously reflects on the idolatrous homage which is paid to the persons of kings, he need not wonder that the Almighty, ever jealous of his honour, should disapprove a form of government which so impiously invades the prerogative of Heaven.
Monarchy is ranked in scripture as one of the sins of the Jews, for which a curse in reserve is denounced against them. The history of that transaction is worth attending to.
The children of Israel being oppressed by the Midianites, Gideon marched against them with a small army, and victory thro' the divine interposition decided in his favour. The Jews, elate with success, and attributing it to the generalship of Gideon, proposed making him a king, saying, "Rule thou over us, thou and thy son, and thy son's son." Here was temptation in its fullest extent; not a kingdom only, but an hereditary one; but Gideon in the piety of his soul replied, "I will not rule over you, neither shall my son rule over you. THE LORD SHALL RULE OVER YOU." Words need not be more explicit: Gideon doth not decline the honour, but denieth their right to give it; neither doth he compliment them with invented declarations of his thanks, but in the positive style of a prophet charges them with disaffection to their proper Sovereign, the King of Heaven.
About one hundred and thirty years after this, they fell again into the same error. The hankering which the Jews had for the idolatrous customs of the Heathens, is something exceedingly unaccountable; but so it was, that laying hold of the misconduct of Samuel's two sons, who were intrusted with some secular concerns, they came in an abrupt and clamorous manner to Samuel, saying, "Behold thou art old, and they sons walk not in thy ways, now make us a king to judge us like all the other nations." And here we cannot observe but that their motives were bad, viz. that they might be LIKE unto other nations, i. e. the Heathens, whereas their true glory lay in being as much UNLIKE them as possible. "But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, give us a King to judge us; and Samuel prayed unto the Lord, and the Lord said unto Samuel, hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee, for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, THAT I SHOULD NOT REIGN OVER THEM. According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other Gods: so do they also unto thee. Now therefore hearken unto their voice, howbeit, protest solemnly unto them and show them the manner of the King that shall reign over them," i.e. not of any particular King, but the general manner of the Kings of the earth whom Israel was so eagerly copying after. And notwithstanding the great distance of time and difference of manners, the character is still in fashion. "And Samuel told all the words of the Lord unto the people, that asked of him a King. And he said, This shall be the manner of the King that shall reign over you. He will take your sons and appoint them for himself for his chariots and to be his horsemen, and some shall run before his chariots" (this description agrees with the present mode of impressing men) "and he will appoint him captains over thousands and captains over fifties, will set them to clear his ground and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots, And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers" (this describes the expense and luxury as well as the oppression of Kings) "and he will take your fields and your vineyards, and your olive yards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants. And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give them to his officers and to his servants" (by which we see that bribery, corruption, and favouritism, are the standing vices of Kings) "and he will take the tenth of your men servants, and your maid servants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work: and he will take the tenth of your sheep, and ye shall be his servants, and ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shell have chosen, AND THE LORD WILL NOT HEAR YOU IN THAT DAY."
Chairman Mao:
In comparing the GB members to an evil monarch, here is one difference the members and pastors do not have to stay in the organization. I would have to agree with you that the Sanchez and Valverde are heavy handed in dealing with people that oppose them, but the power they exert over the people is no where close to that of a monarch. The AA is a small organization and no where close to an empire. However, the leaderships needs to evaluate the components of the organization and find remedies for deficiencies.
This mindset is an organizational behavior, because many pastors deal with members heavy handed and as a result most churches in the AA never get past the one hundred member mark.
I think the problem is the lack of education, training and real-world experience.
You know what I find interesting, is the assembly is wanting to start cell groups. I have friends that belong to mainline organizations and according to them their churches organize according to cell groups. The churches have programs for different groups (Women, singles, men, youth and so forth) but the driving force is the cell groups. From what I have seen in AA churches, they want to start cell groups and still have the current organizational structures ( Dorcas, Varones, and so forth). In my opinion, the cell groups are destined for failure because they continue to over extend their people.
Churches that only have 100 members or less (This normally include adults and children) cannot effectively sustain all of those departments. The outcome is poorly executed programs.
Another thing, I do not understand how the Dorcas, Varones and Youth need so many positions. President, Vice President, Treasure and Secretary. This seem a bit overkill because a whole bunch of positions to do a whole lot of nothing. I would call this a mismanagement of people resources. This is funny because half the church membership hold a position. I used to belong to a church where the men, women, and youth had four positions each and the evangelistic department had one director. I thought to myself, imagine if they eliminated from each group 3 positons and used those leaders to form three of four cell groups under the evangelism department.
Another thing, the churches want to have cell groups and continue with mid week services, and all other mid week activities. From attending and talking with mainline pastors who happen to have over 1000 members, the benefit of cell groups is the flexibility of each group being able to meet different nights of the week. Of course these are churches that organize around these groups.
Anyway, any ideas or different opinion would be appreciated. I think this is one of my frustrations with the organizational structure of the AA.
WWW
Wally:
I think you might have misunderstood my intention.
Of course the AA is not under an absolute or even less powerful Constitutional MOnarchy, that was not what I was trying to imply.
I wanted to hi-light the attitude (not his official powers) or mind-set of a Monarch, compared with that of the HGB, comapred that with Gideons.
Thes men are power hungry, position oriented, and believers that those placed (placed under in their own linds) under them as their subjects, rather then their clients....
as oposed to how Giedoen replied...
" "I will not rule over you, neither shall my son rule over you. THE LORD SHALL RULE OVER YOU." Words need not be more explicit: Gideon doth not decline the honour, but denieth their right to give it; neither doth he compliment them with invented declarations of his thanks, but in the positive style of a prophet charges them with disaffection to their proper Sovereign, the King of Heaven."
these men just want authority, not to do good, but fore the sake oh having authority, and being able to excercise it.
Now don;t get me on a rant about their sons. and the rampant neptoism that plagues this sad miserable little assembly... lol
chairman mao,
Good stuff man. I enjoyed your references. Although a very scary and sad picture - it's a perfect parallel nonetheless.
~alert~
for those of you in the s.b. county and near the court the docs that the plaintiffs attorney submitted are there for our consumption. we've been told that it is a very big document cuz it contains the a.a. constitution and the p&a/declarations. the copies are .50 per page
This is how our board would answer, compare from Above
" "I will rule over you (with an iron-fist), and soon shall my uneducated inexperience son (or son-in-law, or brother, or cousin, or uncle, get the picture) shall rule over you. THE LORD HAS CHOSEN ME AND ME ALONE TO RULE OVER YOU."
HAHAHA
Que viva la APOSTALIBAN!
Viva Saddam Hus-sanchez!
Viva Osamuel BinVerde!
~alert~
calling all the legal beagles to interpret, especially johnnie cochran. Is he still around?
part of the documentation from john stillman- attorney fro plaintiffs- in his “memorandum from points and authorities in support of setting aside the election dated November 24, 2006 and reordering a new election” in the superior court of ca. s. b. county, rancho cuca. he states:
“California Corporations Code Section 9418
(a) Upon the filing of an action therefor by any director or member, or by any person who had the right to vote in the election at issue after such director, member, or person has exhausted any remedies provided in the articles or bylaws, the superior court of the proper county shall determine the validity of any election or appointment of any director of any corporation.
(b) Upon the filing of the complaint, and before any further proceedings are had, the court shall enter an order fixing a date for the hearing, which shall be within five days unless for good cause shown a later date is fixed, and requiring notice of the date for the hearing and a copy of the complaint to be served upon the corporation and upon the person whose purported election or appointment is questioned and upon any person (other than the plaintiff) whom the plaintiff alleges to have been elected or appointed, in the manner in which a summons is required to be served, or, if the court so directs, by registered mail; and the court may make such further requirements as to notice as appear to be proper under the circumstances.
(c) The court, consistent with the provisions of this part and in conformity with the articles and bylaws to the extent feasible, may determine the person entitled to the office of director or may order a new election to be held or appointment to be made, may determine the validity of the issuance of memberships and the right of persons to vote and may direct such other relief as may be just and proper.”
any comments?
Cell Groups? I knew the AA was AposTaliban but I didn't realize we were becoming a "Terrorist Group" that has different "Cell Group".
I know the AA, with their weak mindset and weak doctrine have always been gullible to such movements as TD Jakes, the Prosperity Doctrine, the God Chaser Movement, Azusa Street Movement..now a "Cell Movement" after Osama Bin Laden himself.
Well, if we are going to elect a president named:
Barak Hussien Obama, we might as well form a Terrorist Style church with Cell Groups.
February 7, 2008
To all pastors of the Apostolic Assembly:
It is out of much affliction and anguish of heart I write unto you with many tears; not that you should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have abundantly for each of you. As a fellow servant and laborer in the work of the Lord I must pen this letter to each of you.
It is time for each of us to look at our heart and soul to look introspectively at what has occurred as a result of the 2006 general board elections. We are each left with a dark residue on our hands which must be cleansed through God’s grace and mercy. Our organizational problems well inevitably be made public for all to see. There will be probing into the financial status of the organization including funds, salaries, credit cards, vacations, Christmas banquets and how money is annually budgeted and spent.
The purpose of this letter is to request our fellow pastor’s to prepare our congregations for a day of fasting and prayer on Sunday March 2, 2008. I have not seen either side of the lawsuit make any type of concerted effort to bring the pastors and members as a whole to a time of fasting and prayer.
I believe it is time to invoke II Chronicles 7:14 which says: “if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.”
We as pastors can together invoke a day of “Healing the Land” Sunday March 2nd, 2008. I encourage you to call on other pastors to do this along with their entire congregations. Let us arise above the chatter and do something meaningful for God’s people.
As pastors, we must unite and bind together that there be a shaking of our organizational structure so that God can be God in the Apostolic Assembly. We need to unite together as pastors and ask God to protect the people we lead as undersheperds not as lords over His flock.
We need reform in the election process that will be pure and free of any appearance of internal political or personal agendas.
As a word of caution to each of the pastors; I encourage you to remain as neutral as possible until we have a final resolution. Otherwise you may be compromising your relationship with the leaders on either side of this lawsuit and therefore jeopardize your pastorship. There are several persons including bishops, pastors and others who have recently been removed from their ministry.
The organization is in disarray because many of us fear retaliation by our own leaders if we speak out. The lawsuit is pending and we know not what the end result of the legal proceedings will be. Many of us have close friendships to these bishops and pastor whether they are on one side or the other. Many of us are torn because we see how both sides firmly draw the “line-in-the-sand” and do not seek a Godly compromise or intervention.
I plead with each of you pastors to remain calm and let the process take its course. Once we have determined the full extent of everything that occurred pre-election, during election and post election, as pastors we need to interject positive electoral proposals.
I am a pastor who is far removed from this matter and not involved whatsoever on either side of the lawsuit and have not previously let my voice be heard. I remain neutral in this matter. However, I am a stark advocate for a day of “Healing the Land” on March 2nd, 2008.
Your servant,
Apostolic Justice Pastor
Ismael Martin Del Campo is very anxious to please Sanchez and the GB, by simply copying the program of the cell groups that the Mexican Iglesia Apostolica has been conducting for several years.
The cell group program is coming out of Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico and is being implemented in the Iglesia Apostolica in the United States.
Martin del Campo, having been a product of the Apostolic Church in Mexico decided to give his back to the Mexico Church and he came to the U.S. to assist Sanchez in trying to out do the Mexican Iglesia Apostolica here in the U.S. The Mexican Iglesia Apostolica does not look favorably on Del Campo nor his tactics.
This is why Del Campo made it so quickly to the general board because he had an easy way for the Asamblea to outdo the Igelsia Apsotolica.
The relations of these two churches were severed during Baldemar Rodriguez reign because he did not want Mexico’s Church to assist the AA in the U.S in the elections as they had done for many years.
That is how Baldemar and the General Board were able to have full reign on their fraudulent elections, because he stopped the Mexican Church from supervising our elections.
For all this mess, we have Baldemar and Martin Del Campo to thank.
To Apostolic Justice Pastor
You say your neutral If you were neutral you wouldn't be posting here. Neutral people don,t say anything they remain silent and just standby to watch everyone else go at it. You my friend are foolish more than anything else. You should have your church praying and fasting no matter what! You see Pastor Justice that is the idiotic mentality of many Apostolic pastors, to call everyone to prayer and fasting only when the you know what hits the FAN! Wake up Pastor Justice and come out of your foxhole and stand up for something! Why not just stand up for Justice! You have been a weakling to long! Look what these leaders have done!
Well stated Trohpyman,
To: Pastor Justice why now? Where were you when all this developed in 2006? Where was your voice??? Your call to prayer and fasting could have made a difference then. Many felt that these brave men were being rebels. It's a little to late for you to make a difference. Your either for them or against them you can't be lukewarm as the word of God says " your either hot or cold." All we can do now is be there for the congregation we pastor, pick up the pieces, and hopefully be able to move on. As the lyrics to an old hymn says "You came one day to late."
" Our organizational problems well inevitably be made public for all to see. There will be probing into the financial status of the organization including funds, salaries, credit cards, vacations, Christmas banquets and how money is annually budgeted and spent."
Quote:
Yes its time for all of this to come to the public's eye.
Most hermanos don't know still what is going on. They need to know where their hard earned money they have donated has gone to pay for yearly New York vacations. Box seats at lakers and dodger games. I didn't even know about the christmas banquests til now, but I can just imagine. I know the dorcas need to be looked at too. I can see they love to banquet. The whole board looks like they love to eat and put the tab on the flor azul funds. Put together they must weigth at least a quarter ton.
What do you call a Cell Group headed up by Daniel Sanchez?
A Sleeper Cell
What do you call a Cell Group headed by Eddie Pachueco?
A Jail Cell
What do you call a Cell Group headed up by Martin Del Campo?
A Cell-ulite
What do you call a Cell Group headed up by GB5?
Cell-"mates"
Ha! Ha!
I haven't always agreed w/ your posts van, but I have to admit: that is freakin hilarious.
On another note...
I know it would be a bit burdensome, but wouldn't it be great if somebody that lives near San Bernardino went to the courthouse, got copies of the filed documents and submit them to aa.info.
OR
If somebody that already has access to them would post them on aa.info.
Well, since our beloved apostolic assembly is moving towards an terrorist form of government, ie forming "Cell Groups", maybe they should change the title from "Pastor" to "Mullah"..
Cause the way our organization is set up under Malverde and Pacheco, with their Prosperity Doctrines and G12's, the only ones making Mullah are the Pastors....
Get it, Mullah, Money, Pastors...
On another note, we respectfully disagree. Thats cool. Not like I'm going to hate you for not agreeing with my wacky thoughts.
Shoot, me and Wally is best buds now...lol While my good old friend Enrique turned on me and now hates me. Go figuer.
Apostolic Justice Pastor,
To remain neutral in a situation like this is to become passive which is just short of saying, "stick your head in the sand and wait for the storm to pass by." This my friend does not live up to your handle "Apostolic Justice". There should be a sense of urgency among all pastors to stand on the side of truth and bravely declare action - not become neutral.
Your call for all pastors to fast and pray has become cliche and no longer is taken seriously in the AA. Why? Because most AA pastors do not know how to fast, hence the situation the AA finds itself in. Fasting is not an event, but it's a lifestyle. Anyone can go a day without eating, Nicole Richie does it well, and look where it got her; the same place where the AA finds itself.
We don't need pastors starving themselves from burgers and shakes, that's ridiculous!
We NEED pastors who fast from pride and arrogance.
We NEED pastors who fast from their lust of power and position.
We NEED pastors who fast from immoral sexual desires.
We NEED pastors who fast from their lust for luxury and money.
We NEED pastors who fast from the need to feel needed.
We NEED pastors who fast from their need for validation.
We NEED pastors who fast from the need to feel welcomed.
We need pastors to stop praying for an answer when they themselves are the answered prayer. They themselves are the voice they pray to hear. We need pastors who are willing to be misunderstood and willing to risk all for the sake of truth.
We don't want anymore "Nicole Richies", neglected and malnourished pastors. We need warriors and captains who live disciplined and healthy lives and are stable enough to declare, "Take all I have, just give me the truth!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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But of course... I'm just dreaming.
Alert!!!
Oh boy!!! every single document in court is posted in the AA info and is heavy. God have mercy.
The Apostolic-Gate scandal is taking speed.
I had a thought....
Why, all of a sudden, after all these years that Martin del Campo has been here from Mexico, does he introduce cell groups, a program which he stole from the Iglesia Apostolica de Mexico?
Why now, when the assembly is going through this crisis with a possible division, with Pastors and Bishops distracted by the lawsuit, is Martin Del Campo forcing the issue that Pastors and church members participate in training to work the cell groups?
I know that the real purpose of the church in this world is to magnify the Name of the Lord and tell others about Him. I know that the main concern should be on bringing souls to the kingdom of God.
But why all the urgency to form the cell groups in every district and demanding that all Pastors and members attend?
After speaking to other pastors in other districts, I see a scheme which was executed by Victor Prado, Martin del Campo and Sanchez for getting more money, probably for the lawsuit.
For this so called registration, each Pastor pays $100, each person that attends pays $50.
Each Bishop is require by the GB to get all the Pastors and their congregations together in one place so the delegate of the Board can introduce the plan.
The delegate stays long enough to collect the money, then gives it to the district treasurer and has the district treasurer write out a check for the amount collected.
He then pack up and high tails it on to the next unsuspecting district to do the same again.
The Bishop takes over and continues to introduce the program, something he could have done without the appearance of the delegate.
But the delegate needs to be there to get the money.
Prado, Sanchez, Valverde, Pacheo, Martin Del Campo and of course, Maffey are using cell groups as yet another means of extorting money from the churches.
May God have mercy on these exploiters of the sheep, they will be held accountable.
Let's just hope that the Pastors can see through these 'so called' leaders who have exploited the people for over forty years, and not vote them in again.
Wow...
cell groups??? haha
sounds like another endevour brought to us by our friends at
TAGANSKA BLAST!! lol
once a pyramid scheme.. always a pyramid scheme..
The only cell group I want to visit is the cell where the Dishonorable General Board member Edward Pacheco is going to spend his time when all of the scams he has been involved in catch up to him.
Maybe the cell group money is going for Sanchez, Malverde, Pacheco and the two Bishops Guzman and Gaxiola who also got their hands durty with all this, and if found guilty might have to spend time behind the cell.
What is going to happen when this is all said and done, and the court decides to let the assembly continue as a non profit corporation and rules that the only stipulation is that they have a new election with a neutral outside agency to conduct the elections?
How are these two parties of BOARS going to face each other at future ministerial conventions, conferences, retreats and events that involve all of them being together?
What effect is this going to have on these boars who have to face each other at the meetings, when they could barely tolerate each other at the Texas Convention, to the point that the plaintiffs had to leave early, because they could not tolerate the rebuking of the Satanic forces (according to Sanchez) that were causing them to sue the Assembly?
How are they going to stand each others presence?
This indicates that there will be a split of the different parties who want to rule and control. If either party is not in control and ruling, they will certainly not submit to the other who is.
We also know that the Pastors will run toward the newly elected board and forget the other (the losers) who want to be the leaders.
The losers will not go away easily.
Again, what happens to the losers? Will they try to take the control away from the newly elected Board and continue the same struggle for control? How long can this continue?
This reminds me of the 1920’s convention that was held Otay, California where the two sides wound up throwing chairs at each other in a fit of rage over similar problems of elections. Bro. Llorente had died, and elections for a new president were required.
A.C. Nava, returned from a trip to Mexico and very opportunistically stepped in and became President. Then he never allowed elections for over 35 years.
This may be the same strategy that Baldemar and Salomon are using. Stepping in to be the liberators and leaders of a damaged and wounded Assembly.
To apostolicanalyst it looks like the only thing that will satisfied you is the total annihilation of the Apostolic Assembly.Sister historian?
Martin..Del..Campo...as..a.youth
http://youtube.com/watch?v=werrBp54q7A
Is this the G12 the AA is trying to get into?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gCyc-O08VoY
So this is the so called G 12 the Dishonorable General Board is trying to force everyone into. Trying to sneak it in as cell groups.
This is more revealing about G 12.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ka2OXpq0pn4&feature=related
I did a search of G12 and cell groups and came up with some interesting stuff.
http://www.cellexplosion.com/
http://www.visiong12.com/
The link features the leader Pastor Cesar Castellanos.
Does the Castellanos name ring a bell??
No wonder the Dishonorable General Board is involved with it.
Little Eddie: Who is Cesar Castellanos?
Cesar Castellanos I guess is the founder of the G 12 but I was referring to the name "Castellanos"
as in the Mafia Castellanos.
No wonder the Dishonorable General Board want to get aboard the G12 cell groups
Any comments on the new documents posted on AA info?
" Analyzing the words of our Lord Jesus Christ we can see that there is a great difference in selecting personal for secular organizations and for the church. While in secular elections you allude to human greatness, ego, and pride; on the contary in the church it is centered on humility and service."
Quote from:
Requirement to be members of GB - Luciano Montes
That says it all;
Turning the AA into a G12 movements is definitely a scary thing.
It turns everyone into a leader of 12 even those individuals who were not designed to lead. Then those 12 have to find 12 to lead, and then they each find 12 and so on.
Eventually your spirituality is measured around how many times you were able to duplicate the number 12 within your "family tree". Of course, the man on top of this pyramid is pretty much treated like the Dalai Lama. On the other end of the spectrum, if you're not able to bring in and lead 12, you're not in the will of God and are usually shamed.
It's a very dangerous movement because it creates a "cult" like spirit whereas you no longer have a big cult called the AA, but now you have little cults in groups of 12. Like I said before, it almost completely abandons quality over quantity.
How shameful have those who have no shame dare now to come against and rise is abundance against the g.12 for verily your move to slanderously defame the movement of the g.12 that the honor of the general board hath endoresed as a movement of god. your filthy actions shall no more have of the effect you desire that you shall find thyselves in a wondersous smite where you will be smitten and returned to eat the vomit you spew for the g.12 movement is a movement with a great and mighty momentumn. the church is bienng here and now transformed into the great and mighty bride with the movement of the g.12 this is the word for you i have thus spken this day.
to john 3:16
ahahahahahahahah......!!!!!
Boy I needed a good laugh today and I got it. You are hilarious. Ahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!
:`} I think I wet my pants.
Did they forget to give you a cup at Jonestown John 3:16?
Jesters Jest and laughs arise from the gathering of ignorance. As the great sea of jesters rise in tide, the fools of the beach will be swept to sea only to see the great seeing of the waters of lava that flow from the innner most parts of hell, the hell that awaits those who mock and jest of the gb and the g.12 movement whom is both annointed for this appointed time here on the the great and mighty earth. dusk till dawn are the times that pass where the gesters shall only guess their fate as the great and mighty men of the storehouse of the gb shall wage a war a war of your defeat for the time shall and have come to the passing. your gesting of the gb and g.12 shall make weaping greater and your teeth shall nash a great and mighty nashing. this is your message i have verily hath spoked to you this mighty night.
An interesting prayer given by Frank Romo during the same convention in which the election fiasco took place.
The theme was centered around our "Apostolic Heritage", and indeed that year they defined exactly the kind of heritage our leaders have passed to us.
What a sad picture, Frank Romo humbly declaring (in spanish) "This is our inheritance! This is our inheritance!" Having no clue that behind the curtain our leaders had hijacked our inheritance and carved out a gospel of their own. Had he known what was happening down the hall, his declaration might have been, "Return to us our inheritance!"
What a mockery the GB have created.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=do8iRqivke0
Sad to see that the world definitely knows who we are, and they're not impressed.
See what Saturday Night Live says about the Apo Assembly and it's leaders:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_oFcBHAklc8
This man speaks the truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfI7btxncWw
well i was won over to the lord by my cousin through bible cells or bible studies.. 6 people are now baptized through bible cells.. The system of decipleship of the 12 has being very effective. i only have 2 leaders at the moment and they both give biblecells at this current moment. I get together with theme once a week and we have a closed bible cell for leadership. all a leader of a 12 is a bible cell leader.. not everyone leads a bible cell alot of people are just part of a bible cell. But then again the copy and paste ministry took place on your so call study of the decipleship of the 12. The apostolic assembly all ready has a structure that goes from the president to the vice to the current bishops to pastors to ministers to deacons. So a system is stablished with inn the organization. The deciple of the 12 is not doctrine. Even moses had a system that trickle down because he was overloaded with work so jethro step inn and devided the leadership so one man will not have to solve the problems of the nation.Jesus had his deciples and his deciples set out to preach the gospel and prepare other deciples. But now at days bring something different then the modern way of doing things and you get the negative going against you.. Remember even christ was set to be send by the devil by the Religious leaders of the time..So the decipleship of the 12 is giving good results
Because of my cousin more then 50 people have come to the gospel. My cousin in mexico who is part of the apostolic church of mexico is a leader of leader and they are bring souls to God, and she was won over to Christ in bible studies . So if the bible cells are taking place is mainly to go back for people to become soul winners and for pastors to deciple people to grow in God..
Bible cells are the way, the truth and the light. All souls come to the Lord now and days by way of the cell and enquentro. The mystery of the 12 is being found and many thousands are being saved. Cells are cells that give life not unlike the old structure that gives death. Follow the way of the cells and the cells will lead you to salvation for there were 12 desciples and 12 tribes of israel. is there a one of you that have saved anyone from a hell fire death? No. Come and live the life of true leadership in the cell. come to our enquentro and you too shall have an encounter with god and bestowed upon yourselfs the vision of the 12. 12 is the only number that gives life. i have spoked to uyou this day a vision.
Cesar Castellanos is a modern prophet. From his seed, there were 12 saved. Those 12 gave fruit to 144, those 144 gave birth to 1,728 and those gave birth to 20,736 and they gave birth 12fold to 248,832 and those gave birth to 2,985,984 and they gave birth 12fold to 35,831,808 and they are giving 12fold birth to 429,981,696.
all while your petty system loses members. the Castellanos system will conquer and save the world for all will be saved by cells.
it started with 12 and we are at over billions
To all,
I want to apologize for my frivolous posts from past days.
I have an uncontrollable urge to continually make an idiot of myself by pretending to be a spiritual fortune teller.
I promise to work out my issues so I can begin to contribute meaningful posts on this blog.
I'm sorry.
to john 3:16
ahahahahahahahah......!!!!! Dude you crack me up, I knew you were a phoney. You are hilarious. Ahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!
:`} I think I wet my pants again.
and now there is a predator amoung you who dare copycat my identity. you genereation of thieves who defame and mock the blessed gb and the g.12 have now resorted to copying my name and mock the prophet of the lord. surely your ways of evil will be rewarded with evils done unto you. woe unto those who mock and jest of the great and mighty movement of the blessed keepers of the storehouse, the gb, gods annointed plan the g.12 and gods plan of salvation in the enquentros and his prophet cesar castellanos. woe unto those who jest and mock for your waters are bitter and you shall be showered with laughs from heaven that will serve to mock you as your father, satan, the father of lies and jest welcomes you to his eternal pits. this day you have been warned.
Oh boy... once again I'm so sorry. My unquenchable thirst to be an idiot is driving me nuts.
As I said, I'm working out this issue. I have a meeting with my psychiatrist today. Hopefully he can fix me.
apoww08
Is the General Board required to prove why Bro. Solomon was not qualified for the position?
Was Bro. Torres the only person counting the votes? And if not, what happens if those other people come forward and confirm what Abel Torres is saying?
Do you believe the plantiff lawyers would advise them this far if they did not have a good case?
All of you need to repent. Causing divisions in the church is spoken against in God's word.
Do you share with your pastors these feelings you have written about on these blogs?
Its my guess most of you are rebellious youth that for some reason or another have nothing else to do except cause trouble.
For all the negative things you speak and write of, you have yet to say or mention one single positive thing the Apostolic Assembly has done for you in your lives.
We are incorporating the G12 program into our churches to build leaders of God who are responsible for the recruitment and salvation of souls. Souls is our mission. We must reach the lost at all costs.
Speaking negative and causing divisions will only hurt you individually. You may find God not blessing you because all you do is curse the ministry.
the gb is hunkered down @ hq trying to respond to the plaintiff's douments and planning for this weekend in midland/odessa area. the NW tx. is scheduled to vote for a new bishop out there. let's see what comes out of the hq meeting.
from reliable sources the pastors of NW tx. have a plan for the gb this weekend. well wait n see
Sam,
You are hilarious. No one is causing divisions. The divisions have already been created by the GB themselves. The divisions are easily seen; the "crooks" and the "saints". Bishop Abel Torres and company are not dividing anything, they are fighting to purge out the very thing that is causing spiritual division.
The plea of the saints is to remove the crooks out of leadership so that the saints can keep marching on.
And be careful with your famous quote, "We must reach the lost at all costs." I don't believe the AA really means this. At all cost? Then why don't the GB sell their expensive homes and cars and settle for something decent and invest the left over money in reaching souls? Why are AA pastors driving bmw's, SUV's and live on the hill? Why are they not getting degrees so the can be more effective in ministry? I can tell you why, because it cost too much.
Saving souls "at all cost" mis nalgas. I don't believe your little phrase. Your sermon says one thing but your lifestyle preaches something completely different. People don't listen to what you preach, they listen to what you practice.
"At all cost"... my goodness, that makes me sick.
Opinions like those most of you share are a result of secular humanism. Secular humanism is the path that the modern youth have taken.
It shows in your writings, in your myspace pages, your lack of good apostolic doctrine.
At some time in the near future, when the church is made whole again, we will grow. Yes, there is a purging going on. But that purging is of those who have secular humanistic beliefs.
Using a secular court to resolve Godly issues is not right. This is the path of the wicked.
Again, most of you need to repent of your secular humanistic ways. I applaud those who stand up for the men of God.
Sam,
In your last post, you perfectly summed up the philosophy of the AA. When the truth cannot be hidden, then the bearer of the truth is destroyed. The proof is in the pudding, this cannot be denied as we see it almost every month by the removal of pastors, removal of bishops, threats, rebukes, shaming, etc. Looks like the truth cannot be hidden, so the truth-seekers are being removed.
Taking this matter into a secular court is not wicked. You drive a secular car I'm sure, at birth, you were delivered by a secular doctor, your church building was built by secular contractors. Does this mean you're wicked? Does this mean your church building is wicked?
No one is ABOVE the law, not even church people. Just because you carry a credential doesn't mean you can drive through a red light. If the law applies to church members, then it should also apply to clergy members. Our leaders have driven through a red light, and it's sad to say they too must be held accountable for that.
The Bible says , "Work as unto the Lord."
The GB works as unto "self".
Sorry to say Sam but dudeskie has a legitimate argument. If our organization is bad it is because it trickles from the top all the way down. Some of the young people have no foundation because they always tend to go with what is cool and what is not cool. It would be okay if the cool people were actually spiritual and had some sort of realization of the responsibility that is on their shoulders. Now it is not entirely the youth's fault that many not all have little or no foundation.
hey sam are the plaintiffs "men of god"?
dudeskie,
If they law had been broken, then why hasn't the local attorney for the district arrest any of the board members?
Why? Because no law has been broken. Your side is arguing in civil court. The last I remember, no one goes to jail from a civil judgement.
What you are doing is taking our sacred church business to be decided by a humanistic court.
These judges are in no position to determine God's will. You are asking sinner's to settle God's matters.
Your comparisons to a secular doctor, a secular contractor or a secular car are ambitious at most. But they do not carry water.
Yes, I drive a car that was built by a secular enterprise. I live in a condo that was built by a secular company. I even have a athiestic doctor.
The difference is that those serices and tangible items are meant to bless a Holy Man, a man of the faith, like myself.
The earth and it's inhabitence are here to benefit God's chosen people.
I certainly live in the promise land. People like yourselves are trying to take us back to Egypt to surrender ourselves back into captivity.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=97220694
The Prophet Hath Spoken
I had exited the picture as a pastor in 2005, but I wonder if Bro. Issac Cota was at that convention, anytime anyone talked about ammending the constitution or adding some phrase, he would step up to the mic.. in latter years he was pushed to the mic.. I don't really know him, but in my time in the ministers meetings he would object, respectfully, but he would stand up and question said boards actions.
Some people would laugh and say, "There goes Bro. Cota again." but thank God for men who would not follow blindly the dictates of man...
Most of those meeting were boring for the younger ministers or all in spanish that the english ministeres didn't understand a word.
just thought I'd share..
Mr. Sam,
You just said a whole lot of nothing. I never said anything about the GB going to jail.
What I said, and I'll break it down so that you can understand it, is that everyone must be held accountable to the law. Regardless of entity, you MUST obey the law and it's regulations. Not all laws that are broken will take you to jail. There are laws and regulations that govern non-profit orgs, such as the AA. If these are broken, of course it is better to fix the issue in-house, however, there are times when one side of the issue does not cooperate and/or refuse to negotiate and thus has to be escalated to the court system. Yes, a SECULAR court system.
This does not at all equate going back to Egypt. Egypt is a type and figure of sin. Going back to Egypt means going back to the bondage of sin. The court system is not Egypt, otherwise we could say, "The Lord saved me from court houses and judges." No, the Lord doesn't save us from court houses, the Lord saves us from sin (Egypt).
Your equating the court system to Egypt is as silly as saying your vehicles are pharaoh's chariots.
On a personal note, at this point I think I'd feel safer having a judge make a ruling on this matter than having our leaders take care of it themselves. Atleast we can pray so that God can guide and influence the judge. Our leaders have been prayed for, and yet they still can't lead with ethics.
sam, two questions: 1. are the plaintiffs “men of god”? 2. do you know the difference between civil and criminal law? If not here is some good information for you and it is from: http://www.rbs2.com/cc.htm
Introduction
Criminal law is much better known to laymen than civil law, as a result of journalists' reports of famous criminal trials. In talking with people about law, I find that they often misapply principles from criminal law to situations in civil (e.g., tort) law, which results in their misunderstanding. They are surprised when they learn the actual legal principles that apply to a problem. The purpose of this essay is to compare and contrast criminal and civil law.
In civil law, a private party (e.g., a corporation or individual person) files the lawsuit and becomes the plaintiff. In criminal law, the litigation is always filed by the government, who is called the prosecution.
Punishment
One of the most fundamental distinctions between civil and criminal law is in the notion of punishment.
Criminal Law
In criminal law, a guilty defendant is punished by either (1) incarceration in a jail or prison, (2) fine paid to the government, or, in exceptional cases, (3) execution of the defendant: the death penalty. Crimes are divided into two broad classes: felonies have a maximum possible sentence of more than one year incarceration, misdemeanors have a maximum possible sentence of less than one year incarceration.
Civil Law
In contrast, a defendant in civil litigation is never incarcerated and never executed. In general, a losing defendant in civil litigation only reimburses the plaintiff for losses caused by the defendant's behavior.
So-called punitive damages are never awarded in a civil case under contract law. In a civil case under tort law, there is a possibility of punitive damages, if the defendant's conduct is egregious and had either (1) a malicious intent (i.e., desire to cause harm), (2) gross negligence (i.e., conscious indifference), or (3) a willful disregard for the rights of others. The use of punitive damages makes a public example of the defendant and supposedly deters future wrongful conduct by others. Punitive damages are particularly important in torts involving dignitary harms (e.g., invasion of privacy) and civil rights, where the actual monetary injury to plaintiff(s) may be small.
One can purchase insurance that will pay damages and attorney's fees for tort claims. Such insurance coverage is a standard part of homeowner's insurance policies, automobile insurance, and insurance for businesses. In contrast, it is not possible for a defendant to purchase insurance to pay for his/her criminal acts.
While a court can order a defendant to pay damages, the plaintiff may receive nothing if the defendant has no assets and no insurance, or if the defendant is skillful in concealing assets. In this way, large awards for plaintiffs in tort cases are often an illusion.
Effect of Punishment
The notion that the threat of punishment will deter criminal conduct is based on the principle that human beings are rational. In practice, criminals are either impulsive (i.e., not rational) or believe that they will not be caught by the police. Therefore, the threat of punishment does not deter criminal conduct, as one is reminded every day by reading reports of journalists.
Legal theory considers the possibility of loss of freedom (i.e., incarceration) as much more serious than merely paying damages to an injured plaintiff. As a result of this high value placed on personal freedom, legal dogma is that criminal litigation is more serious than civil litigation, therefore criminal defendants have more rights and protections than civil defendants, as explained later in this essay. The economic reality is that most people would prefer to spend, for example, one year in prison, than pay a million dollars from their personal assets.
Burden of Proof
Criminal Law
In criminal litigation, the burden of proof is always on the state. The state must prove that the defendant is guilty. The defendant is assumed to be innocent; the defendant needs to prove nothing. (There are exceptions. If the defendant wishes to claim that he/she is insane, and therefore not guilty, the defendant bears the burden of proving his/her insanity. Other exceptions include defendants who claim self-defense or duress.)
In criminal litigation, the state must prove that the defendant satisfied each element of the statutory definition of the crime, and the defendant's participation, "beyond a reasonable doubt." It is difficult to put a valid numerical value on the probability that a guilty person really committed the crime, but legal authorities who do assign a numerical value generally say "at least 98% or 99%" certainty of guilt.
Civil Law
In civil litigation, the burden of proof is initially on the plaintiff. However, there are a number of technical situations in which the burden shifts to the defendant. For example, when the plaintiff has made a prima facie case, the burden shifts to the defendant to refute or rebut the plaintiff's evidence.
In civil litigation, the plaintiff wins if the preponderance of the evidence favors the plaintiff. For example, if the jury believes that there is more than a 50% probability that the defendant was negligent in causing the plaintiff's injury, the plaintiff wins. This is a very low standard, compared to criminal law. In my personal view, it is too low a standard, especially considering that the defendant could be ordered to pay millions of dollars to the plaintiff(s).
A few tort claims (e.g., fraud) require that plaintiff prove his/her case at a level of "clear and convincing evidence", which is a standard higher than preponderance, but less than "beyond a reasonable doubt."
Etc., etc. for more info on this see: http://www.rbs2.com/cc.htm
vnos, that was a nice lecture. Notice that you have fully explained the law of Egypt.
The Egyptians were secular humanist too. Now that you are explaining the law system of the American Courts, Civil and Criminal, In the case of American Court System, Egypt, I will say that the American Dollar has an Egyptian Pyramid on each bill.
You will agree with me that the American System is based on a Free Market Economy that is based on the Dollar.
The Dollars say "In God We Trust", but its backed by a Egyptian Pyramid. On the top of the Pyramid, you will find an Eye of Pharoe looking about.
This is the system your side has taken our matters to.
You have chosen to take our church back to Egyptian law.
I can appreciate everyone’s opinion on this matter of going or not going to court. Secular or ecclesial law.
If the Apostolic Assembly bought into a non-profit status which circumvents taxation under our secular government, then we must obey the law which governs the status of non-profit. That includes open elections with results available for all to see.
Let’s put it this way.
A man is making a left turn at an intersection each day for the last twenty years. One day a police man stops him and gives him a citation.
But the driver was not concerned because he knew that the judge would understand once he made his explanation.
When he got to court, the judge said, “you got a ticket for making an illegal left turn, how do you plead?”
“Not guilty, your honor, I have been making this left turn for over 20 years, never got a ticket.”
The judge said, “that is no excuse, even if you made an illegal turn for 20 years, it was wrong and you finally got caught. You must pay your ticket.”
That is how it is with both the defendants and the plaintiffs who have been on the General Board. They have gotten away with fraudulent elections for many years. Now that they got caught, they must face the consequences.
Left turns, right turns, egypt, pyramids, humanism, a thesis on the legal system, g12, prophet castillo. Have you all been smoking the indian peace pipe or something?
This lawsuit is driving you all a bit crazy. I thought I'd never say this, but maybe its time to leave this site and go checkout ESPN.com or something.
Gene Scott Lives!!
Sam,
The Apostolic Assembly decided to incorporate (legally) under these laws.
I Peter 2:13
13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.
It says that God appointed these secular governors and judges to judge. Now if somebody breaks the law, God insitituted these people to judge.
Now as people of God, we should be able to judge ourselves. But when people in authority hold themselves above the law and refuse to allow anybody to question their actions, then somebody else has to judge.
Great post Biz. You hit the nail on the head. I am sure many of us have had conversations to this regard: The church shouldn't be handling this issue in the "secular" courts.
1 Peter 2:14 says it all, He (God) sent them. He established the nations. He will judge them. Paul was another example, when he was illegally being scourged (Acts 22:23-30) by the centurion, he called on his RIGHT as a citizen of Rome to have his case heard before being punished.
Paul understood that it was against Roman law to beat a Roman citizen without a formal trial. Being a citizen of the Roman Empire, yes a VERY SECULAR and IMMORAL nation, became a tool for Paul. If it was Peter or any other apostle (non-citizens), the beatings would have been made without mercy.
Because of his rights under ROMAN LAW, Paul is given the right to stand before Rome's leaders and eventually to stand before Caesar.
With rights and privileges come responsibility. What did Jesus say to the Pharisee's when they tried to corner him regarding tributes "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." - Luke 20:25
The Apostolic Assembly has its duties as a NON-PROFIT CORPORATION to diligence under the law. The attack as some have so wrongly commented is not against the church. Jesus himself said that the gates of HELL cant win against it. The AA has to be accountable for its actions, legal and illegal.
If you have been reading the posts and documents on .info, you will see that every effort was made to settle this in-house, but to no avail. Now, because of what the courts may deem as ILLEGAL activity, the AA will have to come to account for its misdeeds (if that is what is ruled in court).
Not every post here is from youth, and to broom everyone under the rug as secular humanists is bad logic. Every one has the RIGHT to their opinion, right or wrong. Let us continue to dialogue, and pray that God can lead the organization out of this mire.
It sounds as if you all are taking portions of the word of God and using it to your own convenience, to support you use of going to the secular courts.
You want to use secular means, secular men, to settle God's work. I warn you that it's not right to judge the men of God. You are walking into some very dangerous territory.
The bible states that what the men of God establish here on earth, will be established in heaven.
It also states that obedience is better than sacrifice.
One day the plaintiff's will be held accountable to God for taking his matter's to be settled by those controlled by the devil, the ruler of all secular human institutions.
Sam,
You are so spiritually driven that you have lost your connection to reality. In fact, you'll probably take this accusation as a compliment.
Discussing anything further with you is useless. I suggest we all stop wasting our time with Sam since he somehow seems to think we should all buy a ranch and isolate ourselves from the world, live on fire and water and stop having sex, since sex is promoted by worldy means.
Mr.Blind Sam,
Have you heard that the Assembly has taken several Pastors to court over the years. The present administration has done it to several Pastors. Do you think that is right? Is it ok for them to do it, but not for others? They never inform the AA about those things. They don't inform that they had the cases lost so they have paid thousands of dollars in negotiations. In one particular one, they had to negotiate because they were caught lying. They caught the main one.
Sam
Thank you for your comments, but I am sorry to have to point this out, but your wrong on some issues. I am not using the word to my convenience. I just proved through the word of God, that the courts are hear because God instituted them. This was not my spinning of the scriptures. If not, then you must let us know how you interpret the scriptures (1 Peter 2:13) I just shared with you. Was Paul wrong then to appeal the secular law? Shed some light on this.
Was Jesus wrong (Luke 20:25) in declaring that we must be in order when it comes to tributes (taxes)? Please expound on that. Again, what does the scripture say?
Your quoting of scripture is great, but are you sure your placing them in the right context? Where does it say in the bible that what men establish here is established in heaven? What verse? I know where the verse is, just want to make sure you know where it is. Quoting scriptures and not referencing the location leads to bad practices of taking scripture out of context and applying it to the wrong situation.
"It also states that obedience is better than sacrifice." How did you intend to use this scripture in support of your comments?
Thats the entire point of this issue. We have to obey the laws that are instituted because it pleases God:
Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors... (Peter 2:13)
Yes the plaintiffs will be held accountable. As will the defendants. As you will. And more than that, AS I WILL.
So, Sam, what do the scriptures say?
I refuse to discuss scripture any further since it is obvious that the majority of bloggers in this forum are biased against the men God has placed over you.
By going to a secular court, and a secular forum, you have submitted yourselves to a worldy master.
You refuse to deal in this matter as God would have it. God ruled one way, but you want to overrule God's decision and appeal to God's decision to the secular humanistic courts.
You take scripture and use it towards you own biased means, and do such in a rebellious manner. See, you put out scripture to establish the basis of your arguement, but do so with malice, which is a sin.
That would qualify as a hyprocritical action. Using scripture while living in sin.
Yes, you can, as dudeskie puts it, refuse to discuss the issue with me any further. That only says that you are affraid and scared to deal with your sides action of taking this matter before Cesar, a secular humanistic judge.
If you want scripture, I will give it. But I will not demean God's word and discuss it in reference if you are only going to chop it up and apply it to meet your means.
You need to accept that the law of the Lord is perfect. You need to let your souls be converted to it.
You cannot live under the law of the lord and then appeal to the secular laws.
Sam
Thank you for commenting. I gave you the opportunity to continue the discussion in a mature, christian manner, but you ended up showing your true colors. What are those colors? You don't know the word and that is why you will not discuss it.
You cant even respond to a simple scripture test. You did not respond to any of my questions because you do not know how. Rhetoric is your game.
Is this how you respond whenever you are challenged to defend the faith by a non-believer? If someone challenges your position do you say "Oh, you dont know scripture and I do. Your not worthy of a answer because God and I know it."
Here we are, supposedly apart of the same team, yet you seem to be at a higher level than even the scriptures.
Here is your chance. Answer the questions. Let us discuss it.
Sam,
I couldn't resist but ask you this. Why then did the defendants hire lawyers? Not just any lawyer, but SECULAR lawyers? Why didn't they use your logic and simply go on the basis of "If God be for me..."?
Why didn't the defendants refuse to use secular lawyers and choose to let God be their attorney? Do they not believe that God can fight for them? Do the defendants not know that it was declared to the Israelites to "stand still and see the salvation of the Lord."?
Based on your logic, the defendants are being as irreverent as the plaintiffs by hiring secular lawyers.
I agree with Former_aa and Biz, these authorities were put in place so that we can benefit from them. The fact that you feel this threatens the outcome of God's will just shows exactly how much you really know about God.
Defend my faith to a non-believer? Why would I engage in such a fruitless discussion in the first place?
Do you plant in sand? No. You plant in fertile ground. Therefore, I only discuss the word of God to those where the seed will grow.
By you "defending" your faith with non-believers shows that you are in the lifestyle of surrounding yourselves in a society of worldy associations.
I recommend that you return to your royal priesthood and fellowship with believers.
If you are "defending" constantly, you are never on the offense. When you are living a life in harmony with God's word and have a heavenly relationship with him, you walk in the newness of life and in the reflection of his light.
In this, you are on the "offensive" for the Lord, winning souls to the kingdom.
This is what we learn when we walk in the path being established by the men of God.
This action against the men of God and their Godly decisions only serves to delay the winning of souls by draining valuable money from our funds to pay for expensive lawyers and fees in the secular humanistic courts.
Every dollar wasted on a lawyer, is a dollar that could be used to feed the poor, to give shelter to those in need, to help the helpless. Instead, the egos of those who lost an election are causing us to lose ground in our soul winning efforts.
Tell me your thoughts. I will respond to each one. For I am not ashamed of the Gospel that saved my soul and helps me save other souls.
Sam
I am still waiting for you to comment and answer regarding the previous post. You know, the ones with the scriptures? 1 Peter and Luke?
All I read is empty comments and accusations. You do not know me and my associations, so lets stick to the discussion we started before going off on tangents.
To the FormerAA, if you have won souls to the Lord, like I have, I will engage you.
If you have no fruit, there is no need to have a discussion. Why would I waste my time trying to engage someone who bares not fruit for the Lord.
If you have won souls for the Lord, as I have, I will gladly with all happiness engage with you for you have born fruit unto the Lord.
My experience in cell groups could help you and your experience, no matter how limited, can help me.
Sam
Yes I have won souls.
Still waiting...
1 Peter 2:13? Luke 20:25? Where is the scripture to support your "establish on earth will be in heaven".
For those of us who are waiting to hear word from the Lord. As I was meditating on his word this morning the Lord led me to Psalms 17:
I Am Pleading for your help, O Lord; for I have been honest and have done what is right, and you must listen to my earnest cry!
Publicly acquit me, Lord,for you are always fair. You have tested me and seen that I am good. You have come even in the night and found nothing amiss and know that I have told the truth. I have followed your commands and have not gone along with cruel and evil men. My feet have not slipped from your paths.
Why am I praying like this? Because I know you will answer me, O God! Yes, listen as I pray.
Show me your strong love in wonderful ways, O Savior of all those seeking your help against their foes. Protect me as you would the pupil of your eye; hide me in the shadow of your wings as you hover over me.
My enemies encircle me with murder in their eyes. They are pitiless and arrogant. Listen to their boasting. They close in upon me and are ready to throw me to the ground. They are like lions eager to tear me apart, like young lions hiding and waiting their chance.
Lord, arise and stand against them. Push them back! Come and save me from these men of the world whose only concern is earthly gain-these men whom you have filled with your treasures so that their children and grandchildren are rich and prosperous.
But as for me, my contentment is not in wealth but in seeing you and knowing all is well between us. And when I awake in heaven, I will be fully satisfied, for I will see you face to face.
1 Peter 2:13
13Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority
This is a figuer of speech. It shouldn't mean that you submit to bad authorities.
Would you submit yourself to Adolf Hitler? Would you submit yourself unto Chairman Mao? Would you submit yourself to Saddam Husssein?
Would you submit yourself to the government of the facist taliban? Would you submit yourself to an immmoral government who lies to go to war with other nations?
Its clearly not a definitve order in that scripture.
As For: Luke 20:25
He said to them, "Well, then give the emperor what belongs to the emperor, and give God what belongs to God
Are we under an "emporer"? Is Cesar still in power?
This was a literall scripture and would not apply in todays setting in our demoncratic society.
Besides, neither of those two scriptures mentions anything about using the legal system of the secular humanistic government.
But I must remember that you are the ones submitting yourselves to a wordly government and gladly you take scripture out of context to include meanings that are not there.
When the scripture says to submit yourselves to the government, you take it as a literal meaning. If George Bush tells you to jump off a bridge, would you? If soon to be president Obama were to tell you to go kill a terrorist, would you?
Thou shalt not kill is a command, not a recommendation. But its God's law, not a secular humanistic law.
Sam,
Your logic about submitting to our governmental system is absolutely and thoroughly flawed. Using your same logic, if Daniel Sanchez (a man of God) told you to jump off a bridge, would you? If your pastor told you to steal for his benefit, would you? If not, why not? He's a man of God, not secular, so why not obey him?
Where did you get your driver's license from? It's that very license that allows you to drive souls to church. It's that very license that allows you to drive yourself to a place of worship. Does the fact that you got this license from the state system mean you yourself are submitting God's work to a governmental system?
You seem to ignore most questions. I ask again, why are the defendants then, submitting to secular lawyers to handle their case? Isn't God enough?
Sam, you don't seize to amaze me with all your fallacies.
Para aquellas personas que estamos esperando escuchar voz de Dios. Quisiera compartir con ustedes el Salmo 17 que dice:
Oye, oh Jehová, una causa justa; esta atento a mi clamor.
Escucha mi oración hecha de labios sin engaño.
De tu presencia proceda mi vindicación; Vean tus ojos la rectitud.
Tu has probado mi corazón, me has visitado de noche;
Me has puesto a prueba, y nada inicuo hallaste;
He resuelto que mi boca no haga transgresión.
En cuanto a las obras humanas, por la palabra de tus labios
Yo me he guardado de las sendas de los violentos.
Sustenta mis pasos en tus caminos,
Para que mis pies no resbalen.
Yo te he invocado, por cuanto tu me oirás, oh Dios;
Inclina a mi tu oído, escucha mi palabra.
Muestra tus maravillosas misericordias, tu que salvas a los que se refugian a tu diestra,
Guardame como a la niña de tus ojos,
Escondeme bajo la sombra de tus alas,
De la vista de los malos que me oprimen,
De mis enemigos que buscan mi vida.
Envueltos están con su grosura;
Con su boca hablan arrogantemente,
Han cercado ahora nuestros pasos;
Tienen puestos sus ojos para echarnos por tierra.
Son como león que desea hacer presa,
Y como leoncillo que esta en su escondite
Levantate, oh Jehová
Sal a su encuentro, postrales;
Libra mi alma de los malos con tu espada,
De los hombres con tu mano, oh Jehová,
De los hombres mundanos, cuya porción la tienen en esta vida,
Y cuyo vientre esta lleno de tu tesoro
Sacian a sus hijos
Y aun sobra para su pequeñuelos (nietos)
En cuanto a mi, veré tu rostro en justicia;
Estaré satisfecho cuando despierte a tu semejanza.
Your logic about submitting to our governmental system is absolutely and thoroughly flawed. Using your same logic, if Daniel Sanchez (a man of God) told you to jump off a bridge, would you? If your pastor told you to steal for his benefit, would you? If not, why not? He's a man of God, not secular, so why not obey him?
BEWARE TO ACCUSE THE MAN OF GOD OF USING HIS PEOPLE TO JOIN IN THEFT.
BISHOP SANCHEZ IS NOT TELLING ANYONE TO JUMP OFF ANY BRIDGES AND FURTHERMORE, HE IS NOT A GOVERNMENTAL OFFICIAL LIKE YOUR PRESIDENT OR GOVERNOR.
Where did you get your driver's license from? It's that very license that allows you to drive souls to church. It's that very license that allows you to drive yourself to a place of worship. Does the fact that you got this license from the state system mean you yourself are submitting God's work to a governmental system?
THE DMV WORKS FOR US. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT DRIVING PRIVILEDGES.
YOU ARE OFF ON A TENGENT.
CONTROL YOUR ANGER MY BROTHER. ANGER IS A SIN.
You seem to ignore most questions. I ask again, why are the defendants then, submitting to secular lawyers to handle their case? Isn't God enough?
OUR SIDE'S LAWYERS ARE BAPTISED AND REPRESENT THE KINGDOM HERE ON EARTH IN YOUR SECULAR HUMANISTIC SYSTEM.
Sam, you don't seize to amaze me with all your fallacies.
FALLACIES? YOUR ACCUSATIONS AND SLANDER OF THE MEN OF GOD IS NOT ONLY FALLACY, ITS SINFUL. A SINFUL ACT THAT WILL ENDANGER YOU OF LOSING YOUR SALVATION. BEWARE
Alright, as we can all read, your interpretation of the scriptures is embarassing. No I wont jump off a bridge as you say, it just shows your level of competency.
Look at the scripture: Remember that Peter (the apostle, you know, one of the men that wrote the bible that you are reading) wrote this during the Roman Empire (it wasn't a democracy) evil in many sense, but even PETER recognizes the legitimate authority of the Roman government. Democracy has its roots in Roman government, but I wont confuse you with human history.
(Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man... for the LORD's sake, whether kings OR governers)
Who was Peter talking to in that scripture? Over-zealous Jews who did not recognize a king (governments) they paid no taxes but to God. Peter was teaching them AND US that as Christians we need to submit to governments (read my whole post before jumping to conclusions).
(We do this for the Lord’s sake)
Governments have their authority from God. What if they order us to do something in contradiction to God’s law? Then as Acts 4:19 or other scripture guides, we need to decide to obey God (each of us may one day face this). Is following legal accountability regarding non-profit status evil. No. Peter
(As to those who are sent by him)
Peter states that governments are sent by God.(God had enough foresight to give us scripture that would apply to us even today). Governments are here to do what they are meant to do. Yes some are evil, but thats not what we are talking about here. They implement LAWS, and Peter directs us to respect those Laws.
(That by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men) Peter understands that non-believers (this includes those who have never heard the gospel yet) may not read scripture or live for God. So by doing good (in this context submitting to authority) we shut-off foolish men. Let your light shine, so others can see CHRIST through us!
Sam, I'll pray that you can get to a point that you understand and study scripture properly, because you don't. You haven't presented any scripture with a proper citation (your just quoting things others have said) while throwing insults out to others. You never answered regarding PAUL. Was he wrong in appealing to the SECULAR law? Where was that verse found that said "what men establish on earth will be established in heaven" WHy? Maybe because you still cant find the verse and when you do, you dont know what to do with it. God bless you in your attempt to serve Christ. Live full in Christ my brother because "you have been given FULLNESS IN CHRIST, Who is the head over every power and authority" Colossians 2:10
Understand that the Apostles were human just as we are and did error in judgement.
We are talking about the same Peter who denied knowning Christ.
We are talking about the same Peter who cursed of Christ when he denied Christ.
Its not like Peter was perfect.
Have I denied Christ? No. Have I cursed of knowing of Christ? No.
You all on the other hand curse and deny those who God appointed over you.
You pray for God's will then deny God's will by appealing to Cesar's Government to over rule God's decisions.
It sounds to me you are all denying the Father by not accepting his will in his decisions.
Going to court and suing is rebelling against God. God will not be mocked. Nor can God's will be appealed in a court of secular law.
Okay the GB is human. Why isn't the same compassion shown to all the others that have been hurt?
God has many ways he tries to speak to us. God lets our pride do the job for him. When we do not listen no matter how many times he tries to tell us.
Would people be forgiving? Yes. Why aren’t they is because that forgiveness has never been shown to them.
Why do we have to resort to Caesar’s court? The reason why is because pride is getting in the way of God. What is the difference between Peter and our current GB? Peter and David recognized they had done wrong. They asked for forgiveness and it was given to them.
Do these same Men of God recognize all the wrong they have done? 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles?
God tried to speak to them long before it got to this point. Have they listened?
Estimado Pastor Apostólico de Justicia (ApostolicJustice):
Yo le saludo en el nombre maravilloso que está sobre todo nombre, el nombre maravilloso de Jesúcristo. Deseo dar las gracias por sus palabras que reflejan lo sentimentos qué mucho de los pastores tienen.
Hay un grupo de 18 pastores Apostólicos actual que sé se siente con los miesmos sentimientos exactos. Aunque hay mucho más probablemente alrededor de 85% del pastorado esta concernido para lo que ocurre dentro de la Asamblea Apostólica.
Unimos juntos para un día de "Heal the Land" el domingo 4 de marzo, 2008. Este grupo de 18 pastores Apostólicos' estará uniendo de acuerdo con usted por este Día de la Curación. Sabemos que hay algunas fechas del tribunal a la vuelta de la esquina y nosotros necesitamos a Dios para El intervenir en los corazones de nuestros líderes.
Advierto ha habido alguna crítica de usted en este sitio del internet, no sea desalentado ni dismayado porque Dios está con usted mi hermano pastor.
Pastor Apostolico
Seria interesante saber si los 18 pastores leyeron los últimos documentos que se pusieron en el AA Info y cual es la opinión que ustedes tienen es decir si creen que es valido lo que se demanda. What is your opinion with the last documents posted in AA Info.Its there anything solid in the plaintiffs claim?
Estimado Pastor que nos saluda con la gloriosa Paz de Cristo, yo también le saludo igualmente.
Le quiero informar que a través de largos años de estar en la Asamblea Apostólica de la Fe en Cristo Jesús, Incorporada, le diré sinceramente que excepto por ocho personas que dicen ser los llamados, ungidos, escogidos; nada mas ellos han tenido voz y voto.
Por falta de valor cristiano y no ser un Pablo, un Moisés, un Isaías, un Jeremías, un Pedro, hemos fallado de dar a Dios la gloria y honra.
Estos ocho hombres de la mesa directiva han manipulado, atemorizado severamente a todo Pastor, Obispo, diacono y ministro de la Asamblea Apostólica que UD es testigo, que ni uno se ha levantado contra esta forma de gobierno corrupto. Y nunca lo harán, por no perder sus propio “reinados”.
Así es, que hermano, lea lo que se ha escrito ya pasado en el Internet sobre la Asamblea.
Parece que UD no conoce la historia de la Asamblea. Que este problema dio principio en los 1920empezando con el Hno Antonio C. Nava contra el Hno. Francisco L. Llorente con el mismo odio, celo, falta de respeto, falta de amor y falta de consideración al pueblo ministerial y al pueblo en general, que es el sufrimiento que este hombre, AC Nava estableció, empezó y ha llegado hasta ahora.
Machismo, patronalismo, nacionalismo, fraude, mentiras y control, y los nombramos hombres de Dios, quienes no temen engañar al pueblo Apostólico por largos años.
El clamor del pueblo Apostólico ya llego al trono de Dios. El esta a cargo de esto ya.
Esto no tiene remedio de mejorarse por mano de hombre, porque no tienen a Dios en su noticia. Lea Romanos, capitulo 1.
Que Dios me lo bendiga mucho.
Parece que siguen tratando de humillar al Obispo Abel Torres los miembros de la Mesa Directiva. Tres miembros illegitimos van ha correr una eleccion en el Distrito Noreste de Texas el proximo sabado. Eso es lo que hace la MD con los que no les tienen miedo. Dijo el Pres. Sanchez que lo ceso porque no vieron que fuese "propio" que un Obispo demande la Mesa Directiva. No dijeron que es incontitucional, porque no les es. Por "propio," estan dando ha entender que no les parece a ellos. Ellos enterpretan la constitucion como bien les parece. Al Obispo Torres le dijieron que si se retractaba podía seguir de Obispo, pero no lo pudieron comprar.
Hmm they're going to hold elections AGAIN for Bishop of the Northwest Texas district. How many times are they going to do this? Maybe they're trying to get at least "two votes". A "two vote" bishop, yeah.
...and the worst part of this ad-hoc election for Texas bishop is that it will be ran by illegitimate officials. Officials who were fastracked into position and never had to put their time in to get there and never fulfilled the requirements to earn their position.
This is the equivalent of contracting Britney Spears to find you a nanny.
Just because you look good, and dress good, doesn't mean you are good. Let's get some real men on the board, who don't cut corners and are willing to work for the kingdom and not for themselves.
Let's recap for those of you who may not be up to speed on the Northwest Texas district goings on. December 28th the GB goes to Midland to remove Bishop A. Torres post as legitimate Bishop. Then they immediately hold re-elections and he is re-voted in. The GB is not happy with this so they hightail back to headquarters and put their heads together and they think and they think and they think. Then E. Pacheco says timidly what about our "two vote" strategy. Bingo! RE-RE-elections tomorrow in Odessa, Texas.
Talking about a 2 vote Bishop, did anybody noticed that 2 vote Eddie has been removed from the line up to preach at end times.
He was listed to preach on March 6 along side T.F. Tenney.
http://www.ucapostolic.org/endtime.asp
Sam - February 14, 2008 12:47 PM
...those who God appointed over you.
APPOINTED? Do you really think God would need to 'Rig' an election to appoint leaders?
You pray for God's will then deny God's will ... to over rule God's decisions.
Are you talking about BS (Bishop Sanchez)? He's the one that said let's pray for God's will to be done in the election in Midland TX - Even though the Pastors voted UNANIMOUSLY for Bro. Abel Torres
...denying the Father by not accepting his will ...
Again you are talking BS. He could not accept the will of God and had to say 'My'will be done
...rebelling against God. God will not be mocked.
Do you consider disregarding the vote of 600 prayerful Pastors 'doing God's will'? Who's the one mocking God?
BS is sending Abel Aguilar Ed Pacheco and Leo Maffey to Texas tomorrow.
Any pastor from Northwest Texas that accepts the position of a bishop tomorrow is a traitor.
The new bishop will certainly be an appointee appointed by appointees.
May I ask all of you. Of whom is mister Sanchez president? The church? the pastors? the bishops? the GB? his own two daughters?
Ok! So they are sending Napo the used car salesman along with the screamer wannabe preacher and no name maffey to Texas to preside over elections! HA! HA! HA! The qualifying candidates Quintanilla who dried up the district funds as the last bishop! WOW! Listen to this one the next best qualifying candidate is Arriola this guy he borrows money from everybody and never pays them back. Way to go Sanchez wth your calificadora! Is it digital by any chance? Three Stooges Welcome back to Texas!
God will deal with those rebellious pastors in Texas whom think they can over rule and appeal Gods decisions.
Texas pastors are united in causing a division and are not obedient to the word of God they preach.
It must be Gods will and not their biased and unwilling will that prevails.
I must warn those Texan pastors thet they are putting their ministries and salvation at risk simply to have their will and not God's will.
I for one am praying for the general board. They are bold men who are leading the church in a tremendously dangerous time.
Sam,
If they are men of God, why do they lie? What are you going to do with that? In private they admit they made mistakes at the 2006 elections, but in public they deny it. Pres. Sanchez told Bishop Abel Torres God told him not to disqualify him, but he fires him later. Aren't men of God supposed to do what God tells them? Do you really think that people who are as spiteful and vengeful as the GB are men of God? They tried to bribe Bishop Torres with a position, but he wouldn't be bought. Do you think that people who try to bribe others are men of God? Do you think that violators of our Constitution are men of God? All they are doing is seeking revenge on people who speak truth. They are angry and frustrated because they have not been able to break Bishop Abel Torres. They sought to defame him and he became a modern martyr. I hear he has support from about 90% of the pastors. The figure agrees with the votes in favor of his proposals at the 2007 convention. It isn't just a fantasy. That is why the GB is angry. He has done everything the legal way, but the GB continues to commit numerous violations. Bishop Torres may not be able to stop this corrupted GB, but he is not afraid to go down trying. What the illegal GB members do today in NW Texas will go down in infamy. It is not over, Sam. You will see that justice will prevail in the end. The spirit of Saul, which is the spirit of the GB, will not prevail. I have heard that Abe, Bishop Torres's son said, "Dad, please don't back down. Many people who have been wronged are depending on you. I will be embarrassed if you back down." What a son!
Sam,
You come across pretty strongly as someone that hides behind his Mama's skirt. You are using the trm bold pretty loosely here my friend. How about arrogant, ruthless, inconsiderate, stubborn, self serving, etc. Men of God? Yeah Right! Ask your mama she's right there! Come on pull on her skirt get her attention!
SANCHEZ’ WINNING FORMULA
C holos
A gainst
L iberty
I tegrity
F aith
I nfrastructure
C onstitutionality
A ccountabiliy
D ialogue
O bedience
R espect
A l Mighty’s Will
ALERT!
From a reliable source word is that at 9 AM in Odessa, Texas at the re-election of Bishop and POSSIBLY Pastorship taken away from Bishop Abel Torres, the Northwest TX district has united together to protest for the unjustice done to Bishop Abel Torres. They will be carrying signs with scriptures and will be singing songs. All this will be done with the fear of the LORD, not as the world conducts their protests.
Wow. Seems like this district has been taught well by their Bishop. Standing up for what's right- injustice!
good news!
North West TX district is rejoicing at the election of their new Bishop, Leonardo Garcia, who happens to be a great friend of Bishop Abel Torres. Bishop Torres is very pleased with these results.
It is amazing! The incoming NW TX Bishop Leonardo Garcia defied GB members Pacheco, Aguilar, and Maffey. He introduced Bishop Torres at the end of the sevice and asked him to speak. Bishop Torres took the podium and in a cool manner turned to the illegitimate THREE and asked them, "Me dan permiso de hablar?" What could they say in front of all the people there? They had to nod a reluctant, yes. Bishop Torres was loudly applauded when he walked to the podium by all the people. He said, "I was taught by my father to respect our leaders and that is why I first ask permission to speak. We should always be respectful. If we want others to respect us, we must also be respectful." He also said that we cannot demand respect; we should earn it. The whole time the people were responding enthusiastically. It was so amazing. The people responded much more with him than they did when the GB members spoke. Many people also protested peacefully outside. There is know doubt whatsover that Bishop Torres is loved and respected here. He said, "I have always worked for the Apostolic Assembly and I will continue to work for the Lord and the Apostolic Assembly." He added boldly, "The Church belongs to the Lord, not to the Apostolic Assembly, the UPC, or any other Church." The GB members looked on uneasily. What a day! As Bishop Torres spoke, it was obvious to everyone present that there is not an ounce of bitterness in his heart. He also said, "Many of you have known me for many years. I have preached many times that we should praise the Lord in the good times and in the bad times. I am praising him today!" Bishop Torres was there the whole time willing to face the music!
Se acaba de ofrecer nueva información sobre la reunión que se tomo acabo en el Distrito Northwest de Texas este Sábado, sobre la elección de un nuevo Obispo.
Es increíble que tres hombres de la Mesa Directiva, dos que nunca cumplieron con los reglamentos de la Constitución de ser Obispos de un Distrito antes de ser nombrados a la MD, tuvieran el descaro de dirigir esta reunión.
Pero más descaro es de los Pastores que les hicieron el homenaje y el favor a estos miembros ilegítimos de la Mesa Directiva, de ser parte de una decisión incorrecta una vez más.
Todavía están dispuestos a hacer mangoneados por estos tres individuos que llegaron por mandato de D. Sánchez.
Les digo hermanos Pastores, que se puede ver que UD todavía le están dando importancia a estos tres.
Ellos se fueron triunfantes porque los Pastores cayeron en la trampa y permitieron re-emplazaran al Hno. Torres.
Por cierto, los Pastores hubiesen sido héroes si no hubiesen asistido a esa reunión. Aquí se hubiese establecido un precedente de valentía y de equidad.
Pero esto indica que todavía están al control y al demando de estos hombres.
Si hubiera habido realidad, seriedad, y sometimiento a la Palabra de Dios, no hubiera estado ninguno de UD presente.
Esta táctica de parte de la Mesa Directiva, y la respuesta de los Pastores de haber sido manipulados, indica la mentalidad del resto de los Pastores de la Asamblea.
¿Para que ir a la corte? Al fin, los Pastores se someterán a quien sea y de seguro votaran otra vez por los mismos ocho que ahora los manejan.
Y al Hno. Leonardo García, si UD hubiese sido un amigo verdadero, hubiese rehusado esta posición a elección forzada.
¿Como lo va describir la historia de su distrito? Porque traicionó a su amigo y colega.
Solo la mafia y los politicos se dan besos y abrazos aun cuando se han traicionado uno al otro.
No es así hermano analista. Directamente del Obispo Torres escuché que la mayoría de los pastores lo llamaron para preguntarle si deberían asistir a la reunión y el les dijo que sí deberían asistir porque si no entonces la MD iba a poner de Obispo la persona que ellos bien les pareciera. El Obispo Torres le dijo al los hermanos Leonardo García y Lorenzo Ortega que aceptaran la candidatura si recibían votos para obispo porque siendo ellos intimos amigos le habían advertido que no iban aceptar pero el Obsipo Torres logró convencerlos que sería mejor que aceptaran. El Obispo Torres está muy contento con los resultados. El Obispo Torres inclusó invitó al Obispo García, su buen amigo, para que predique en la iglesia de Midland este domingo.
Bro. Leonardo Garcia is not a traitor. He defied the GB present and gave the podium to his dear friend for a few words. For those of you who don't know - the Torres family has known Bro. Garcia and his wife Sis. Eva since they were children long before they were even married. They have been steadfast friends during good times and bad times, as the TRUE friends they are and certainly as brothers and sisters in Christ should be. All Bro. Abel had to do was say no and Bro. Garcia would never have accepted. And that, my dear people, is a true friend and brother.
God Bless Bro. Garcia and his dear wife may they continue to be steadfast in the Lord.
I just want to know if Little Napoleon had his platform shoes on?
Here is a picture of the 3 DGB in Texas:
http://www.voicechoice.com/celebpages/3stooges.html
I am glad that the house cleaning continues. Abel Torres was a leach sucking the life blood from the Apostolic Assembly by being involved in this lawsuit.
He was out of order and needed to be put in order. The Honorable Bishop Sanchez should also remove his from his church as pastor.
Its outrageous that a pastor of the Apostolic Assembly would fall out of order and violate the chain of command that God has set forth.
There's more to come. May God Bless the Honorable Bishop Sanchez and the General Board.
Sam,
Tell you father that judgement day is near at hand for the GB. Dirty tactics like theirs will not be tolerated anymore. All of them are on the way out and they know it. They might as well start packing. Everybody can see now how evil they are and why they must go. More people are joining the ranks of those who are seeking justice. Everything they have done to hurt people will come back to haunt them. They are angry and full of venom because they couldn't buy Bishop Torres. They thought they could scare him with their strong-arm tactics. It hasn't worked so far. It seems that he is ready to pay whatever prcie it takes. Reckoning day for the GB is coming. They will see. The real leaches are the GB members who are sucking up all the money from the churches so they can travel first class and dine and party with all their family and friends at the finest restaurants.
Here is another blog you can look it: http://thetruthatlast-justice.blogspot.com/
PAZ de Cristo
Nada mas les quiero decir que yo tengo el video donde habla el pastor abel torrws en el servicio donde se eligio nuevo obispo lo voy a poner esta noche para que lo busquen en youtube o si quiere en el myspace de los jovenes de la iglesia de Midland Dios los bendiga
amen alexanra
cuando ya lo haya puesto el video, nos va dar el domicilio para verlo?
To SAM:
What was really out of order was the manner in which the elections were conducted by the GB or should I say manipulated?
There is something wrong with this world when wrong is right and right is wrong.
As already noted, Bishop Torres (because Bishop he will always be)made several attempts to amicably resolve this matter with the GB and he was ignored each time.
My utmost respect for Bishop Torres for the honorable manner in which he has handled this situation. Just to speak with him about the situation he radiates peacefulness and faithfulness. What man acting out of vengeance could make one feel calmness?
Your post simply confirms that the GB is acting out of anger and is retaliating against Bishop Torres.
May God have mercy on the GB and you or maybe you are one and the same.
To Sam:
Sammy, Sammy, Sammy the cleaning hasn't even begun. All the dirt and dirty laundry is merely being gathered. Just sit back and relax or get on your knees and pray because reckoning day is coming.
Bro. Abel Torres is way beyond being hurt by any mere removal of position unlike those who would rig elections to gain positions. Bro. Torres has not carried his title of Bishop for glory, vanity or for wealth.
Officials are not elected so that they can look down at us from their "high posts". They should be "legally elected" so that they can serve the church, so that they can administer to you and I, and serve God with humility. What a concept.
You blogger that are opposed to the general board are like little boys that cry wolf.
"Justice is coming, justice is coming", "Sanchez was ordered by the court to step down", "The Prophet of the Lord Prophesyed of the general boards dirty tricks".
And the list goes on and on.
You need to accept God's will. The general board is appointed of God. You cannot change that. Nor can you make little threats of change.
Your bloggs are nothing more than venting without teeth.
The plaintiffs are a group of sore losers who are trying to regain their glory. Had they won the election, they would happy and not changing anything.
Having Baldemar complain to the court is like having Bill Clinton accusing Ted Haggarty of having an illicit sexual affair.
They are upset like little children.
Abel Torres is no saint. He and his family have profited from their work in the Apostolic Church for decades. Now he stands on his soap box and you follow him as he is your messiah.
What Abel Torres and his cohorts are doing in the courts is mutany.
They are lucky they are not in the military because mutany is a crime punishable by a firing squad.
Sounds like Sammy is bitter because his daddy is going to lose his position, and he loses his super star status.
Quote form sammmy
'They are lucky they are not in the military because mutany is a crime punishable by a firing squad.'
yeah Sammy your lucky this isn't the milary cause your daddy would be up for fraud, high treason, backstabbing, embezzlement.
Time for you to move on and get over it that your losing your silver spoon that your daddy has been feeding you with.
To Sam:
Geez Bro. Sammy get a grip.
About leeches (not leaches) they are used for "medicinal purposes to extract -IMPURITIES- from the blood". So thank you, thank you, thank you! Next time do your homework a little better.
How will my "daddy" lose his position? Sorry to inform you that nobody's "daddy" will be losing their job or position.
The only one's losing their jobs and positions are the Judas' that betrayed the Apostolic Assembly by signing on the to this frivilous lawsuit.
Score Board:
Efrain Andrade FIRED
Abel Torres FIRED
Willie Mendoza FIRED
(What a cochino for being 85 years old with a 35 year old wife)
More to come
To Sam
For someone that uses such words as "You need to accept God's will." and "The general board is appointed of God." this individual sure sounds bitter and violent.
God's will is when someone is ELECTED to a position by the pastoral body; not elected and THEN removed by a GB member to be replaced the position with a buddy.
Bye bye buddies. And as my little one would say, "You're funny!"
Whoever it is that you are dictating from please have them verse you in vocabulary. And please run your spellcheck. You really make the GB look poorly. No wonder the Assembly in such a sad state.
To Sam:
How about this scoreboard:
1. D. Sanchez - criminal
2. Valverde - criminal
3. Pacheco - criminal
4. Sammy - Son of Sam
Ta-Da!
Criminal? Now you are resorting to making more false accusations with out a shread of evidense. You bloggers really need to seek the Lord and beg for foregiveness.
You make these accusations, call our leaders criminals and then have the nerve to ask me to post a verse.
What verses in the bible do you find it where its says its ok to slander our Godly appointed leaders?
I read about people like you in the bible. They ended up wondering the desert for 40 years. They also chose to make an idol and worhship it.
See, you bloggers are like a type and a figuer of the rebelious people whom God freed from Egypt. You now complain and bicker. God had a place for you in his high magesty.
But you have chosen a path of rebelion and have made Abel Torres you golden calf. You placed your hope in him and worship him.
It would be a futile venture to try to discuss scripture with you since you have hardened your hearts and rebelled against God's will.
To Sam:
Sammy, in case it hasn't occurred to you, you are a blogger, too. And what did you call Bro. Willie Mendoza? I call that namecalling. He MARRIED the lady, he isn't living in sin.
Sammy, Sammy, Sammy why don't you quit. Your a lost cause. Think of something of substance before you type, type, type.
To Sam:
“Score Board: Efrain Andrade FIRED Abel Torres FIRED Willie Mendoza FIRED (What a cochino for being 85 years old with a 35 year old wife) More to come”
From where are you getting your information? On these three you are totally wrong. Read the letter from the A.A. right man! E. Andrade is still pastoring the congregation, so are A. Torres and W. Mendoza. By the way, you have just stated your position… “Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.” Titus 1:15. In calling W. Mendoza a “cochino”, you have just condemned yourself, careful now!
We Care, why should I stop? You can't handle the fact that I defend the Apostolic Assembly general board.
I cannot sit here and allow you rebellious bloggers make your false accusations against God chosen with out response.
The facts are that they general boarde are cleaning house and getting rid of all the Judas' in their midst.
You need to sccept Gods will. You pray for Gods will only to ask the court to over rule God.
Why are you even a Christian? You bloggers who blog against the apostolic leaders are walking in no fear of God and are in danger of heading to the wiles of the devil.
In going against God's appointed leaders, you are doing the devils work.
Its time to repent and return to the fold.
Sam, one more time...
Are the four plaintiffs "men of God?
To Sam:
We defend Christ in all His fullness and glory.
It appears to me that you're the one with the golden cow.
Again I say, it is not a GB appointed by God when the votes are manipulated. Perhaps you need to take a math class as well. Two plus two does not equal majority of votes.
What Bishop Sanchez has ordained on earth has been ordainded in heaven. Deal with it.
Yes, all members of the General Board of the Apostolic Assembly are MEN OF GOD.
You, as a member of the Apostolic Assembly must SUBMIT to their spiritual authority.
Unless you do that, you will never live a spiritual life in the super natural.
You will be bound to earthly and secular humanistic ways.
To Sam:
Sammy, I'm trying to stay out of this but you keep asking for it. Sammy, Sammy, Sammy.
By my estimates 80 to 90 percent of the "bloggers" are in favor of removing the illegal GB members. If you continue to call us "of the devil" you just might scare us into leaving the assembly. What would the GB do without all those tithes? Imagine having to live on 10 to 20% of what they rake in right now. If you do the math, "its elementary, my dear Watson.
Laugh out Loud!! Now you are threatening blackmailing God's church by taking the $10.00 you give every month? LOL
You can take you meezly offering and God will replemish it.
I wouldn't be suprised that you get a pink slip for that comment and the attitude you and the rest of the bloggers have.
Do you think God is soo limited to be dependent on your offerings?
to all the bloggers here, food for your brain
I think that sam is the same blogger as john.3:16 but with a different alias. john.3:16 has been partally rehabilitated but there are still some cells in this particualr blooger's brain that hasn't seen the light. This sam/john.3:16, makes no sense at all
I suggest that we do not respond to this nonsense that he blogs
Sam, you give 'BS' a whole new meaning.
Is Bishop Sanchez (BS) Blowing Smoke? Bringing Shame? Buying Sin? OR Backing Sam?
To Sam:
Hey, Sammy, sorry to leave you alone for so long, are you alright?
I got really busy there for a while. I was wondering where the day went then I remembered - blog, blog, blog! Anyway I had to do all my stuff in a flash.
So anyway, back to the business at hand. Gosh we went through a lot today didn't we? I feel like you and I had a "thing" there for a while.
I really don't want to perturb you any further since I've determined by your erratic writings that you must really have some "issues". You should see someone quickly. Take care Bro. Sammy and tell your buds on the GB to clean up their act.
Dear Brothers and Sisters:
Throughout this day, I have read with interest the blogs that go back and forth regarding if the General Board members are or are not men of God.
This is all a mute point, brethren, because the Scriptures tell us how the early church established who were to be part of the 12 apostles. They voted for who was to be the one to replace Judas.
We have a clear description of who are men of God. It is those who are DULY and HONESTLY elected by their Christian peers in ministry.
Our problem is that we don’t follow the RULES. Men of God DO follow the RULES.
Acts 1:
v. 21: Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection."
v. 24: Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen.
v. 26: Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.
You bloggers complain and whine all day about the gb. You say justice is a coming. You annoint your leader, Abel Torres as the captain leading your mutany.
But every tueday, thursday and twice on sunday you keep coming back to you Apostolic Church for more.
The truth is, you love the Apostolic Church. You can't live without it.
Your feelings got hurt because most of you probably got rejected to become deacons.
There is a plac e for you in the leadership. Its just not at this moment in time.
Though you whine and complain, you will still keep patronizing the Apostolic Church for your weekly services, mens outings, youth services, concerts, district conventions, national conventions, flor azul.
The Apostolic Church has you hooked. I bet you have all even registered in advance for End Times Restoration.
You complain, but in the end, you keep filling the pockets of those you complain about most.
You whine and complain, but you only verify and certify God's will by your continued patronage of the Apostolic Church, lead by Annointed men named Sanchez, Valverde, Maffey, Prado, Del Campo, Aguilar, Pacheco.
I bet you even purchase Brother Sam's CD's, DVDS and Tapes.
When the Aguilars roll into town, you are first to greet them.
Why do you complain about Sam's big house and Missy's BMW? Your continued offerings and patronage are paying for them.
I hate to have to agree with Sam.
But we are the ones who make these Board Members think that they are MOG’s.
The Pastors in Texas flooded Bro. Torres with phone calls so that they could be told whether they should attend the meeting in Midland. The Pastors should have made their own decision.
I believe that they should have been bold leaders and boycotted that meeting.
It scares me to realize that the Pastors in Midland are not leaders who stand on truth, but scared followers who want to please whoever is in power.
If the GB would have named one guy to take over, it would not have been an election, but an appointment, and that constitutes fraud. It takes a quorum to have a legal election.
Bottom line, the General Board got its way because we don’t know how to stand up for what is right. Maybe it is just that we don’t know how to discern what is truth.
The Pastors at Midland were in an opportune position to establish throughout the Assembly, a leadership precedent, standing their ground and boycotting the meeting.
But they heeded to the call of Sanchez and his troopers like zombies.
Those three went from California to Texas in the same way Job’s friends came to see him. They came to taunt and prove once again, that they have all power and control. And we are still so willing to pay homage to them.
I predict that the same eight scammers will once again be voted in by the Pastors when the court decides to hold another election.
It takes prayer and discernment to place a responsible vote. It seems the Pastors do not want their comfort zone threatened or their feathers ruffled.
They want all the luxuries and monies that their churches afford them, but do not want to do the hard work that is part of ministry.
Because Pastors are placed in the position to select men who should be in power over the whole Assembly, they are failing in their responsibility to their membership.
The members have no vote, and the Pastors are failing miserably.
Paz de Cristo!
Here is the Link to the video where BISHOP abel V. Torres Says some words and some the New Bishop Leonardo Garcia Intrduces him as the good friend he is of BISHOP Abel.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=28653674
So . . . going back in history . . . 2 vote Eddie's assistant pastor/son-in-law left his church and went to the Potter's house.
Is it possible, he went to prepare a place for the putter (2 vote) to land after he is removed from office?
Sam - Can you comment? Is that where you're headed too?
I agree that pastors are afraid to speak up and are at fault why the the church finds itself in the situation it is today. Many times under the past administrations at the general conventions ministerial meetings Pastor Abel Torres spoke up but none would support him because of the fear the pastors had of losing privileges such as speaking in conventions, invitations to church's and possibly a position on the board or maybe just plain retaliation. Pastor Torres saw this coming many years ago and I remember many times that he would tell us of the danger that was ahead if nothing was done. And here we are today just like the days of Noah we thought it would never happen. God have mercy on us!!
Still today Brother Torres seems to be alone. He is the one paying the price so our children do not have to endure this bondage again. My heart goes out to him and his family though many think that his interest is to become the next president but honestly positions come and go but as the scriptures say "what you bind here on earth shall be bound in heaven and what you loose here on earth shall be loosed in heaven" now that is what matters. He'll be remembered in the history of the church just as Martin Luther King is today though the cause is much greater than MLK's cause as someone who stood for what was right!!! He never became president of the United States.
To Sam:
Sammeeeeeeeee, You, BLOGGER, you.
Gosh Sammy, here you are again. I thought that after my advice yesterday you would be busy making your appointment with your phychiatrist. Hopefully today will be a better day for you on the blogs just don't get yourself too wired up. Take it easy.
Anyway I'll probably just do this once today since as I told you last nite you took up a lot of my time yesterday. I have a to-do list you know. I mean I know we have a thing going on but, hey.
Say, Sammy, did you see the video of the GB in Midland. Boy did they look silly, squirming and standing there like they would like to be anywhere else but there, they didn't know what to do with themselves. Someone called them the 3 stooges but I wouldnt go that far I don't like to call people names.
Go Bro. Abel Torres, GO! Sammy did you hear the praise, the applause, the cheers, etc. It would have done you good to be there. It would have soothed you. Can you imagine people feeling that way about you?
Oh, back to your silly comment about the Torres family profiting from the District for decades. Sammy you are so funneeee! Come to Texas and ask anyone - no better yet, don't, you might get lynched. The late Bro. V. Torres came from San Antonio to a little tiny town with his wife and 4 small children. They lived in a converted patched up little gas station for 7 years! They moved to Midland and began a church from scratch. Bro. V. Torres bought the first little church building paying $35 a month, sometimes it was hard to make that payment. As soon as that one was paid for another church was built with capacity for about 175 souls. Bro. V. Torres worked in the cotton fields and in the oilfields in McCamey, and in construction until his retirement in Midland. Bro. A. Torres following his father's dream later with his faithful and hardworking congregation built a church with the capacity for 900 souls, on the same property is the another church for the English ministry and a 2 story building that houses the dining hall and Sunday school rooms, across directly from the church is a full block owned by the church for parking.
Sammy, Sammy, Sammy like I "blogged" to you previously please do your homework before you BLOG, you BLOGGER, BLOGGER, BLOGGER.
Well, Sammy, please make that appointment I told you about it will do you good. God bless you Sammy. I gotta go now but I hope you have a good day, take it easy.
And remember, Sammy, only post things that have substance and are true. Toodles.
alexanra thanks for the video. It was very revealing to say the least about the three gb members that were present.
check out the uneasyness of bishops pacehco, maffey and aguilar. They had their hands tied up all the time others spoke, especially bishop torres. the comments that were being said merited a response from all and there was but from these men, none!
I saw the video. It was refreshing to see the rebellious mutany ministers from Texas submit to the authority of Obispos Maffey and Pacheco.
All the ministers showed up and submitted to God's authority of the honorable general board.
Like the little sheep they are, they were being lead astray by the wolf in sheeps clothing, Abel Torres.
But it took the shepherds, who were appointed by the Lord to get the little sheep back into the safety of the flock.
God Bless Obispos Pacheco and Maffey for being bold enough to travel to Texas and put the Texas herd back in order.
To Sam:
Aw come on Sammy I said WORDS OF SUBSTANCE. And why are you leaving Bro. A. Aguilar out? The pastors, they were just curious. And ask anyone who's gonna still run the district.
To Sam:
Sam-mee, where are you? Are you alright? Did you go to lunch? I'm worried about you. Really.
Sammy, did you get into trouble? Is your daddy mad at you? You know because you let the cat out of the bag. You know because I think I detect something from your last few posts. About A. Aguilar, you know. I mean you talk about the Aguilar's as though they are an entity not as a part of the GB. Then you don't mention Bro. A. Aguilar as "bold enough to come to Texas." Sammy, is it POSSIBLE that there is DISSENSION amongst the GB? Sammy did you go too far and got yourself into trouble? I told you many times if I told you once, ONLY POST THINGS OF SUBSTANCE AND THAT ARE TRUE.
Its alright Sammy, you didn't know any better. Just plead ignorance. It'll be okay.
Aw, Sammy, never mind I just thought of something. You made that appointment you and I talked about. Good Sammy, I'm proud of you. Talk about it, get all out. Good luck to you Sammy.
Geez, I keep getting caught up with this BLOGGING and my duties are piling up. Good-bye and God Bless. Keep your chin up.
To all you Abel Torres followers. You are sounding more like a cult. Abel Torres himself submitted to the authority of the General Secretary Edward Pacheco.
You too must set aside the rebellion you have gained through your endulgence in secular humanism.
Secular humanism has no place in the church or in church goverment. You can have democracy, but you must understand that there are no elections in a Kingdom.
You cannot be part of a royal priesthood when you practice secular humanism.
The root word for DEMO. When you research you roots for words, there is a link between DEMO-cracy and DEMOn. In other words, democracy is a system devised by demons.
This is a result of your secular humanistic ways.
Priase be to the Lord for cleansing the Apostolic Church of the conspiracy of mutany.
Learn to spell my goodness !
It's mutiny NOT mutany
sammy, sammy
a la otra vez que oigas esa voz samuel, di habla que tu siervo escucha
Sammy Boy,
"To all you Abel Torres followers. You are sounding more like a cult."
Hmmm...yet you seem to be a part of the GB underground cult or something of that nature. You seem to come down on these "followers" but when in fact they are SUPPORTERS OF JUSTICE, Bishop Abel Torres just happens to be the one standing up for it.
"You, as a member of the Apostolic Assembly must SUBMIT to their spiritual authority.
Unless you do that, you will never live a spiritual life in the super natural."
That my dear boy is the most IGNORANT statement I have ever read! We are not zombies that we adhere to everything that the GB says or does. I, and I would hope that you eventually do, only submit to the KING of KINGS, Jesus Christ. With this statement you are telling me that if the GB openly admits that they rigged the elections and have lied over and over again to the public that you would deem that as ok and worship them and if everyone does not then we end up in hell! I had no idea that you were God's assistant in judging once we are in heaven!
I'm not sure what sources you are using but it is certainly not the Word of God. (the bible in case you didn't get that)
Stand up for a real cause Sammy boy.
Jehová, pues, llamó la tercera vez a Samuel. Y él se levantó y vino a Elí, y dijo: Heme aquí; ¿para qué me has llamado? Entonces entendió Elí que Jehová llamaba al joven.
Y dijo Elí a Samuel: Ve y acuéstate; y si te llamare, dirás: Habla, Jehová, porque tu siervo oye. Así se fue Samuel, y se acostó en su lugar.
Y vino Jehová y se paró, y llamó como las otras veces: !!Samuel, Samuel! Entonces Samuel dijo: Habla, porque tu siervo oye.
I Sam. 3:8-10
Kingdoms rule. Never in the bible do we find an "electoral process". Did God elect King David? No. Were any of the prophets elected? No.
Was there an election among the Desciples? No. God appointed and annointed his servants.
Lucifer tried to take over God by playing politics in heaven.
Look what happend to Lucifer. He was cast down along with his co-conspirators.
This is a type and figuer of what is happening with Abel Torres, Daniel Solomon, Baldemar Rodriguez, Art Tafoya.
They are playing politics with Gods annointed and appointed prophets.
You bloggers whom all blogg against God's decisions, are all in danger of being cast down.
Sam, What do you call this?
Acts 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
If it were up to the HGB, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus would have been appointed
They took a huge spiritual gamble. At that time, they were not spiritual enough to hear Gods voice.
This is why they cast lots. It was no more a mere game of chance. But with 11 Apostles, how could you go wrong.
They might as well have rolled dice.
So. . . obviously you believe there is no such thing as the will of God. Instead of believing God would have directed 11 apostles to 'vote' one way you say 'It was no more a mere game of chance'.
Yes only 11 Apostles. Imagine if there were 602 - is that still 'a mere game of chance'?
Sammy, read this...
Act 1:26 - And they gave forth their lots,.... Or "gave forth lots for them", as the Vulgate Latin and Ethiopic versions; for Joseph and Matthias; some for one, and some for another; and which were cast into a man's lap, or into a vessel, and was no other than balloting for them; and so he that had the majority upon casting them up, when taken out, was declared the person chosen; or "they cast their lots"; that is, into an urn, or vessel; which lots had the names of the two persons on them; and into another vessel, as is thought, were put two other lots; the one had the name of "apostle" upon it, and the other nothing; and these being taken out by persons appointed for that purpose, the lot with Matthias's name on it, was taken out against that which had the name of apostle on it, upon which he was declared to be the apostle: it may be that this was done in the same manner, as the goats on the day of atonement had lots cast on them, Lev_16:8 which the Jews say was thus performed: there was a vessel which they call "Kalphi", set in the court, into which two lots, which were made of wood, or stone, or metal, were put; the one had written on it, for Jehovah, and on the other was written, "for the scapegoat"; the two goats being, the one at the right hand of the priest, and the other at the left; the priest shook the vessel, and with his two hands took out the two lots, and laid the lots on the two goats; the right on that which was at his right hand, and the left on that which was at his left (i); and so the goat which had the lot put upon him, on which was written, "for the Lord", was killed; and that which had the other lot, on which was written, for the scapegoat, was presented alive; so the lot here is said to fall upon Matthias: or the lots being cast into the vessel, as above related, these two drew them out themselves; and Matthias taking out that which had the word apostle on it, the lot fell on him: the manner of Moses's choosing the seventy elders, is said to be this (k):
"Moses took seventy two papers, and on seventy of them he wrote, זקן, "an elder"; and upon two, חלק, "a part"; and he chose six out of every tribe, and there were seventy two; he said unto them, take your papers out of the vessel; he into whose hand came up "an elder" (i.e. the paper on which it was so written) he was sanctified (or set apart to the office); and he, in whose hand came up "a part" (the paper that had that on it), to him he said, the Lord does not delight in thee.
We now live in the New Dispensation of the Holy Ghost. When Christ came, the Old Testament was cast away for the New Law of Jesus and the Rule through the Dispensation of the Holy Ghost.
Its in this New Dispensation, old ways are cast away and we now live in the Super Natural Where God shows us his decision without having a man made election where secular humanism rules.
We live in the New Dispensation, if you don't agree with that, you are against the gift of the Holy ghost.
SAM, oh dear Sammy Wammy...
Do not cast the first stone and tell others that people who support JUSTICE are going to be "cast down." Let's leave that up to GOD, shall we?
Furthermore...
1. You have a filthy mouth calling Pastor Willie Mendoza, a MAN OF GOD, a "cochino." Save your filthy language for some where else.
2. LEARN HOW TO SPELL!
3. Get the hint. You do not have friends on this blog.
To Justice4all,
Furthermore...
1. You have a filthy mouth calling Pastor Willie Mendoza, a MAN OF GOD, a "cochino." Save your filthy language for some where else.
HE'S A COCHINO BECAUSE HE MARRIED A LADY 50 YEARS YOUNGER. WHEN HE WAS 50 YEARS OLD, SHE WAS A BABY.
ENOUGH SAID.
2. LEARN HOW TO SPELL!
WHEN YOU LEARN TO SUBMIT TO THE LORD AND GET AWAY FROM THE BONDAGE SECULAR HUMANISM HAS ON YOU.
3. Get the hint. You do not have friends on this blog.
THEY SAID SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO JOHN THE BAPTIST. AS LONG AS I HAVE JESUS, I DON'T NEED ANY OF YOU BLOGGERS AS FRIENDS.
Yes... glory...
And so you know, GOD is my friend too.
At least we have one thing in common.
sammy, sammy
one last time, are the plaintiffs "men of god"?
sammy, sammy
one last time, are the plaintiffs "men of god"?
sammy, sammy
one last time, are the plaintiffs "men of god"?
ynos, the plaintiffs are trying, in a secular humanistic court, to reverse God's decision.
So, as Lucifer tried to play politics in heaven and do a coupdetad, the plaintiffs are doing the same.
Are the plaintiffs men of God? No. They are man of their rebellious leader, Lucifer.
Note, that these youth for justice tried to have a DEMON-stration against the decision of God.
Is there any doubt they employed a tactic from hell by having a DEMON-stration?
sammy, sammy
let's see if i have this right from you
1. you call a pastor (w. mendoza) a cochino
2. the gb is god appointed not elected
3. the qualifying commission's action of muting the voices of 600+ pastors is god ordained
4. president bush, senators mccain, clinton, obama, gov. arnold, scotus, policemen, judges, military, etc are all humanists
5. the plaintiffs are men of lucifer
6. the list goes on and on and on from you
and only you and the gb have a corner on the truth?
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