The time has arrived! I agree with the person that said why boycott this convention as it may turn out to be one of the most interesting in our lifetime. Take pictures, video and audio files of interesting items you may encounter.However, my gut feeling tells me that this legal action is of no benefit to the Apostolic Assembly as a whole.
1. This action could drag on until 2010 when the next election is to take place thus nullifying this filing.
2. If the plaintiffs win, it really hasn't changed the way the AA does business. There still is no oversight to the General Board, the same group of men that have been running the show for the past twenty years are trying to position themselves for the next twenty years, save Bro. Torres.
Which group of good 'ol boys do we want in office?, which really doesn't matter due the fact that I would venture to suggest that every election has been rigged since the inception of the Apostolic Assembly.
3. If the existing General Board wins, it is a legal mandate that they can continue business as usual. This without a doubt will lead organizational split because of (a.) those on the plaintiffs side will be excommunicated, maybe not formally but ministerially and socially and (b.) pride.
It is a very interesting situation we are experiencing. We need an oversight committee with truly independent, unbiased representatives that have no social, financial ties or political ladders to climb. All people with any previous position should not be on this committee. The General Board is responsible to this committee. It could be respected leaders from other business', educational and religious institutions and not AA members. Some may ask why do we need this? And I would be quick to remind you of the situation we are in. We need this more than ever! I don't care who is on the General Board, they need to be accountable for their actions to some one. And they are not choosing to be accountable to the constituency. That goes for the people on both sides of the lawsuit.
Thanks to those keeping track of the dates of the dates for the lawsuit. Keep us updated.
One more note, I thought it was interesting the plaintiffs noted in their lawsuit that they do not know if they have been financially impacted. It was left as a question mark. By the way, are the plaintiffs going to release who, if any one, has contributed to the their legal "defense" fund (by the way they are not on the defense which why I think their term is humorous, it should be something like: 2006 General Elections Fairness Legal Fund or Apostolic Assembly Legal Fund to Ensure Fair Elections) and how those funds have used.
I am also going to stop the comments under the AAFCJ Election Discussion Update Post. The election discussion can continue under this post.
Felicidades,
Apostolic Voice
Blogmaster
p.s.
I updated the Shout Out city list, we are up to 326 cities.
353 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 353 of 353Que peleoneros somos los apostolicos.
Thats why we never get jack done.
Someone has success and we hate.
Someone makes progress and we bag on them.
Someone achievs some goals and has some vision and we criticize.
Dont get me wrong I am 100% guilty of all of the above.
Its just trippy how we latinos are. I wonder where it comes from ?
On the other hand that same passion makes us great lovers and we can throw hooks with the best fighters out there.
We just arent very humble or meek.
My Hypocritical Brother,
Why do you keep coming after me? Are you trying to pick a fight with me?
I must have hit a nerve.
Before you continue to show your ignorance let give you some advice.
1. Your not funny. You just regurgitated every pejorative comment I've said about you and said it back to me. That't not funny, it was funny when I said it though. I can't describe how to be funny, it has to do with timing and twists and plays on words. So your out of luck on this one.
2. Your not original. (read above)
Use your imagination, not mine, when you engage in discourse.
Think of the air around you as a blank canvas and words as your paint brush and palette. Now, use your imagination to paint a picture with your words.
3. Probably the most important. Becareful who you align yourself with. You come across as young but you don't need to be naive.
There are men here that have hurt alot of people and used people for their personal gain and then disposed of them.
Ask Bishop Tafoya about the pastors that have left the assembly under his leadership.
Ask Bishop Tafoya about his kids and why he is struggling to keep them in his church. Kids do get hurt because of the actions or inactions of their parents, pastor/bishop or not.
Ask Bishop Tafoya about his other family members that helped mentor him and bless his ministry. What has he done to them?
Ask Bishop Tafoya about all the great potential leaders he had in his church and why they've left him.
You see, you can learn alot about the character of a man from his previous patterns in dealing with people, a lifetime of patterns.
I would hate to see you being cast aside after Bishop Tafoya no longer needs your service, like he's done so many others.
Now, go ask Bishop Tafoya why he didn't put his name on the lawsuit after he instigated this matter in our AA.
Ask Bishop Tafoya why is he leaving Baldemar and Solomon holding the bag.
Ask Bishop Tafoya if you should continue this discussion.
I don't know what the weather is like in EP, but I know in Phoenix the sun is shining.
JC
WOW!!! Johnnie Cochran very knowledgeable and a lot of truth!
1. I’m sure you mean to say you’re as in ‘you are’
a. yes, you are funny, but only if you’re speaking of your appearance.
2. (see 1. [you’re]) You are the one using your vivid/biased imagination to read things into the posts that are not there. In one of your misleading posts, you state ‘This reflects the fact that the AA.info website is infact created at the request and encouragement of Bishop Tafoya.’ you are assuming facts which are not in evidence. Your assumption that since the documents may or may not have been created on Bishop Tafoya’s computer is based solely on the ‘properties’ you discovered. Your review of the properties is the only thing the webmaster acknowledged as clever. Just because you made it up in your imagination, it is not fact.
You also stated : It is now obvious that the host is censoring and editing documents and only putting information on the website that the plaintiffs and Bishop Tafoya want you, the AA body, to see. If the website is promoting anonymity, they have a duty to remove identifying information. In my opinion, the webmaster made the mistake by leaving the info there – Unless, someone else altered the properties and submitted the documented to AA.info. Remember the bloody glove that was found at OJ’s place – if it doesn’t fit . . .
3. Who ever said I’m aligned with Bishop Tafoya? I agree with the webmaster – I give him credit for standing up to the GB.
While we’re making things clear . . . I haven’t figured out where you stand. Do you support the current General Board that fraudulently secured illegally? Or do you support the Men of God trying to correct the situation? Or are you just trying to play one group against the other? OR????
Hypocrite,
You are out of your league...
...but just so you'll know where I stand...I stand by the Word of God, not by man.
JC
Hey Paul whats going on at Headquarters tomorrow?
Fill us in!
ALERT! For those of you who think the consenters are heroes, think again. Please read on, this was taken from another post:
--------------------------------------
One of the consenters, Ishmael Arellano was the director of foreign missions and was on the board for 24 years, he had a child out of wedlock.
About his 17th year of being on the board, a married woman with children came knocking at his door to tell him that she was his daughter. It was then that Ishmael Arellano had to inform his colleagues and his church that he secretly had a child from another woman before coming to the Lord, and had never told anyone because he was afraid of how it would affect his ministry.
1 Tim. 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
Ishmael Arellano never owned up to his responsibility as a father. Even after she had made contact with him, he made no effort to make up for the damage he had caused her for so many years. To this day he still is not a part of her life nor her kids' life. What's worse is that she only lives in a neighboring city.
So, Ishmael Arellano, director of foreign missions, his job was to take the gospel to the entire world, but was never a provider to his own first child. After the GB found out about this, they were ok that he had abandoned his first child, they rewarded him with more terms on the general board.
How can you go out and save the world and abandon your own? I don't get it. A man who abandoned his duty as a father, was allowed to stay on the board. He still chooses not to be involved with his firstborn. And she is not a believer, what a testimony. The bible says he is worse than an infidel for not being a part of his daughter's life.
These are the role models that us apostolics have had for decades. It is nothing new. The GB cannot be trusted, they have no integrity, never admit mistakes much less try to correct their mistakes. They just sweep them under the rug and hope that people will just forget or never find out, instead of fixing the errors. It's not just with this current board, its been like this since I can remember, I have stories from even the 50's.
It will be like this until we put real men on the board who have integrity and have their priorities correct.
The Court would like for Mr. Cocran to fill the rest of us in on the definition of EP.
What is EP?
You will define EP or be held in comptempt of court.
Such penalty will include:
1. Spending the weekend at Martin Del Campos house.
2. Spending two months teaching Edward Pacheco the meaning of ETHICS.
3. Unearthing all Plagarism done by Sam Malverde.
4. Sitting in a weekend course of "Marraige Education" by Marc Payan.
5. Drinking 7 bottles of Tschungachaga Blast.
6. Backward masking Daniel Sanchez convention sermon.
Breaking news!!!
Jason DeMille the GB attorney has quit,Sanchez and his bunch didn't follow his instructions to call for mediation before Dec 20, according to my sources he already consider the case for the GB lost.
Now the GB wants Church Mutual(the AA Insurance) attorney to take over this case.
Its a fact folks.
Told you something would happen today but did anyone listen? NOooooo...
By the way...that's not the only thing the General Board is worried about...They feel the pressure...
They (Sanchez in particular) has admitted they were wrong to the petitioners and now they are going to use their power to do wrong.
Word has it (Very solid source) that they will now try to take away positions and even their churches... so that they can win. Corruption... If you General Board leaders are reading this, know this God sees everything and will repay us for everuones deeds.
Now you are just riding on pride.
I always knew Paul was right...
More Breaking news!!!
Jason DeMille not only advised the GB to go for mediation, but when the GB told him no he sent his boss to speak with the GB. Even then Sanchez said he wanted other lawyers. CAN YOU BELIEVE THE PRIDE (ARROGANCIA) in this man! And my sources tell me he doesn't want mediation by December 20 because he thinks he can stall the trial for years. Little does he realize that the plaintiff's lawyers were told the judge in this case wants to expedite this particular lawsuit ASAP.
And to continue the GB saga, Valverde has told close friends that if this case goes to trial HE WILL SPILL THE BEANS on Sanchez - Go figure, even in adversity like this they turn on each other.
On another subject, I used to personally like Aguilar, but when I saw him use the convention, especially the pulpit, to cry about the present on-line persecution he and his family is suffering, I lost all respect for this man! Especially when I know for a fact that some of the blogs are true!!!
But you know what is the saddest thing of ALL. If the GB reads these bloggs (I'm sure they do), even after they read this and know what is comming, they still continue with their wayward ways what does that tell you? THEY LIVE IN A WORLD ALL BY THEMSELVES NEVER CONSIDERING NOR LISTENING TO ANYONE! May the Lord really have mercy on their souls!
Blogs are "persecution"?
If thats true, then not only is Abel Aguilar a false prophet, he's just freeking weak as a leader and a man.
We've gone from "they were sawn asunder, tarred and feathered, beheaded, for the sake of the gospel, to now where they are blogged about."
That Weak Abel Aguilar. Have some Tschugkunga Blast!
Add being a SNITCH to Malverde's reasons for disqualification.
If the GB attempted to take their churches away, I doubt that they would get away with that. Isn't there protection against retaliation for the consenters?
If the GB had the legal right to take away their churches, I for one would leave the immediately. This would be an action that I could not interpret in any other way than a flagrant act of ‘godless” leadership. If this is their intention, furthermore, this would solidify my intuition that these men still think that their dealing with a mostly uneducated, dependent population. I would find it hard to believe that any sober minded individual would follow men in such an organization if they attempted such an act of retaliation.
95 Theses,
Have you been under a rock for the past 50 years. The AA leadership has been taking away churches out of retaliation for years.
And its their legal right, they own the property.
Soooo, where are you going to church this next Sunday?
AV
So does that mean Sanchez gets nothing for Christmas this year because of Malverde.
The SNITCH that stole Christmas.
Apostolic Voice,
Yes, I know that the AA GB has taken away churches as a form of retaliation in times past. But for them to do this at this level, in this context, would be the proverbial slap in the face.
At the end someone will spill all the beans.
Valverde and Pacecho are related I think these two will sing like birds....
Remember Pacheco snitched to stay out of jail.
THE INSIDER
I can see why both "Apostolic Voice" and "95 Thesis" have valid points. I am pretty sure that we all can reference moments where Pastors, Ministers, Leaders and Lay People have been retaliated against for many unjustified reasons. To do this now, at this moment, would be an unprecedented moment.
If after all this (the blogs, a lawsuit that has become very public, and outspoken grass roots group, the comments made a convention), the General Board still goes out and brings retribution or intends on "ousting" these men from their positions and churches would be a blatant attack and would have to:
1. Constitute some form of legal wrong that would incorporate some ramifications. The legal beagles out there would have to comment on that.
2. Bring even greater shame on the General Board. How could they possibly recover some such a heinous display of political and positional retaliation.
Now please understand, before you accuse me of living in a cave, my comments are regards to the rumored actions in retaliation of the lawsuit. I KNOW that the GB and leaders in the District and Local levels have wronged people, I am presenting an opinion to the comments made by "Apostolic Voice" and 95 Thesis" regarding these rumored retaliatory moves. God help the AA if they actually do this in light of current events.
to all the people in the house.
please tell us how the gb removes a pastor with out telling the congregation the true motives behind it? i heard they show up
change locks and they have a pastor ready to take over a church.who have they humiliated by removing theme with out a just cause.. examples please. the only good one that they remove was ed lopez because he tried stealing the money and he eventually lost everyone because he started showing his true colors.
lots of agendas here. seems like a lot of bitter people. a bad election can't be the cause of all the venom i read in your comments. honestly, you should all try counseling.
john.3.16
Believe it or not there are those that are truly concerned and appreciate an outlet for discussion. Please be careful when you make broad assumptions and comments regarding "all", because you'll get a shotgun of responses.
AMEN Former AA!! It seems that John 3:16 has no idea what he/she is talking about. She hides behind a spiritual fasad but seems to be judgemental him/herself without knowing any facts either.
Any way, for those of you looking for examples of pastors taken out unjustly by the GB, just ask the brethren in Arizona to give some examples. I KNOW THEY HAVE SOME!!!!
Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son . . .
And the HGB became the money changer Jesus through out of the temple.
To get back at Jesus, they crucified him.
The HGB are being thrown out, now they’re trying to get back at the men sent by God to clean the house.
We are not seeking vengeance, just trying to clean the house. God will repay the HGB for what they have done.
Deuteronomy 32:35 'Vengeance is Mine, and retribution, In due time their foot will slip; For the day of their calamity is near, And the impending things are hastening upon them.'
Sounds like someone is CLUELESS. CLUELESS In Rancho Cucamonga!
"Remember Pacheco snitched to stay out of jail."
NO WAY? What a model citizen he has always been.
Always a smile on his face when he was digging the dagger down someone's back.
With Pacheco and Malvere on his side Sanchez can sure sleep good at night.
its 2:46pm, december 6, 2007. nothing has happend. the general board are still in office. the worst that will happen is a new election. at most, you lose pachecos, but you keep sanchez, valverde, and the rest of the board. probably duarte re-joins the group. nothing new will happen. this lawsuit is nothing more than an expensive bump on the road to no where.
If you put a list of this individuals an start fill in the blanks, oh boy is totally scary.
Daniel Sanchez--------------------
----------------------------------
----------------------------------
Samuel Valverde-----------------
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Ed Pacheco-----------------------
-----------------------------------
-----------------------------------
----------------------------------
------------------------------------
-----------------------------------
Leo Maffey------------------------
-----------------------------------
-----------------------------------
Abel Aguilar-----------------------
-----------------------------------
-----------------------------------
Ismael Martin del Campo----------
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-----------------------------------
Hello said...
If you put a list of this individuals an start fill in the blanks, oh boy is totally scary.
Daniel Sanchez---spineless------
Samuel Valverde---greedy mastermind
Ed Pacheco---apostolic pee wee herman
Leo Maffey---
Abel Aguilar--jury is still out
Ismael Martin del Campo---likes tacos and his girl friday very much
Sanchez and Pacheco were in South Texas this week to name a new Bishop.
Why did they take Victor Prado with them? Why does he go with them everywhere leaving his church abandoned to be traveling on issues that have, as Secretary of Social Assistance, nothing to do with him.
Now they moved him to California to take over Bishop Castorena’s church. He was not even present on the day that he was supposed to assume the pastorship.
He will leave behind a church in Albuquerque with a $15,000.00 per month mortgage payment. This is another mystery.
Where do these people get this kind of money? Its not only the mortgage, its insurance, its utilities, its maintenance, don’t forget those big salaries.
Why are they forcing him to take the San Fernando church and leave his new church and palatial home in Albuquerque to come to California to rent a 2 bedroom apartment for lord knows how much.
Besides, golf is much more expense to play here in CA.
Big questions, any answers.....?
READ MY LIPS: Prado will be the next Bishop in the Los Angeles District.
Don't worry to much about Prado. If he does become Bishop, that will be 3 salaries.
Soon he will have his mansion next door to Malverde, and playing golf with Pacheco.
And California will have another freeway wreckless driver in Jr.
What do you expect from the AA HGB after one of their own screws up a church leaves them holding the bag with a $15,000 per month mortage they bring to him sunny SO. CAL. What they should do is send his rearend to Alaska.
Do you think Malverde would ever get called to the Mission Field now?
Malverde to the mission field?
Hey Blog Master!
GREAT POST! As I am reading this document, my thinking is that if the plaintiffs lose, we'll probably see another "AA type" of orginization sprouting in the future, because the plaintiffs are "old skool" and they will not be made to look foolish.
-E
Malverde to the mission field?
Elvis Malverde to Guantanamo perharps.
I happen to know first hand that Baldemar was asked by Bro. Antonio Nava, during Baldemar’s 23 year reign as President and Vice President that if he was willing to go to Central America to the mission field (I guess the GB wanted to get him out of the way), he said no, that God had not called him to the mission field but to a supervisory position.
I guess God called him to comfort and convenience. Now he sues the Assembly.
So if anyone tries to send Valverde to the mission field, (trying to get rid of him, too) well, he can also claim that God called him to a supervisory position in the U.S.
This GB has a history like a wreath, it goes around and around.
Wasnt Baldemar also part of the whole
General Board musical chairs shifting of positions back in the day ?
I always wondered if something fishy wasnt going on. It seemed like he was President forever.
The General body should be able to vote. Because allowing only pastors to vote is unfair.
Pastors often times have certain loyalties and take sides with one Bishop or another.
And in many cases may be schmoozing and kissing up to a Bishop so that they may one day also rise in the ranks.
You know kind of like a scratch my back and I will scratch yours type of thing.
We as the general body would not be biased rather we would choose who we thought would be good leaders.
Also these candidates should campaign and tell us why they would be good leaders and how they plan to lead ?
Enrique,
I agree that the structure should change but to allow the candidates to campaign would make it even more political and with more corruption.
-What they need to do is limit the amount of time they can be on the board
-And restrict those who can be President, add qualifications.
I dont know, but something needs to change. Arent we all tired of the same things not working.
We are just going in circles, why is it that other churches are doing greater things than we are?
One word: Leadership, everything rises and falls on it.
The only good thing about this. Is that Malverde will never become President now. The road to Rome is closed.
Pacheco will never have another post, not even dog catcher.
Del Campo might get a post at King Taco.
Aguilar maybe spokeman for that Blast drink.
Espinoza stunt double for Mr Bean
I agree,
Things can never be the same after this fiasco.
But that is a very good thing.
Change is very much needed.
Paul
I get what your saying but if no campaigning then when or how do we get to know what a candidate has done or stands for if we dont live in his District ?
However it plays out change is a must.
Lord have mercy on The Assembly and our arrogance.
Many people have been hurt and snubbed by supposed Men of God and so called christians.
Ignored at convention by people who walk around like they dont know you because their dressed up.
Passed up for Ministry because you dont have the right last name.
I could go on forever
Just a general observation. How many of the GB members can make it in the real world?
Sanchez - NO
Valverde - Maybe, but not making the money he is making now.
Pacheco - Same as Valverde
Maffey - Yes
Aguliar - NO
Espinosa - NO. Printers don't make that much.
Martin del Campo - MR. King Taco himself. NO
Prado - NO
Sorry guys, you better fight to keep your position.
The Insider
The mark of a mature minister is one that desires son and not just followers. True fathers will: *Empower sons to receive their Godly inheritance -*Teach their sons to forge lasting relationships-*Show the true biblical blueprint for better evangelism- *Help their sons to step into the call of God - *Teach sensitivity to the Holy Spirit
I agree with that list.
Maffey I heard used to work for the IRS and has an education.
However he is still an arrogant jerk and has no place in Ministry.
Victor,
Amen to that.
Sometimes...most of the time we breed followers and teach that following man is what God desires. He wants doer's of the WORD not hearer's. Not doer's of man's word because he's the pastor.
One can gauge a leader by the leader's he's developed.
AV
How can these board members stand up and preach about love and they can't even talk to their own families.
Sanchez - Daughter and Son-in-law
Valverde - Brothers
Pacheco - Sister and nephews
How can Edward Pacheco stand behind the pulpit, preach forgiveness and not ask the forgiveness from his Car Scam Victims?
Is Pachuecos pulpit custom made ?
If not he must use a milk crate to stand on so he can see the crowd.
This guy is so arrogant he would rather escape to the mission field before accepting the blame much less humbling himself and asking for forgiveness.
This is no lie, the legs on his chair had to be cut down.
For you that remember the show Fantasy Island "THE PLANE BOSS THE PLANE"
The,
That is hilarious !
Did he look like a little kid when their legs dont touch the floor on a grown up chair ?
" The Plane Boss The Plane "
now you mock the men of god. post your pictures and i'm sure we will see your shortcommings. i pray that god heal the pain in your hearts.
Come on guys stop making fun of me!!!!!!
Come on John3:16, are you related to Eddie or are you shorter then him?
If you don't believe me, go to the church and look at the chair yourself.
TheInsider.......
Has Anyone Noticed?
Has anyone noticed that Andy Rodriguez, Member of FOT, Head of the AA Real Estate Departmemt, is not listed on the AA Website under Adminstrators?
Andy Rodriguez is Sam Malverde's Right Hand Man. He's also in charge of the Real Estate Dept.
Why is his picture not posted or his name disclosed?
Is there anything to hide?
How many of your churches wanted to buy a property or refinance your church mortgage, but were told that the AA has to approve of the deal and has its own preferred lender, Andy Rodriguez, and were charged Mucho $$$$. More than a Credit Union or your churches bank would charge.
Why is there no sign of Malverde's Main Man on that site. He does collect a Salary. Does Andy make Commissions too? Does he give Malverde a kick back?
Has Andy worked with Garduno?
Hmmm, is it any coincidence that Malverde has Andy and his cousin Pacheco has Garduno?
Notice? we see it, but nobody questions it. HQ staff (some) see this and just shrug their shoulders.
Nat Ochoa, gets a hefty salary from HQ (for a couple of hours in the office), Real Estate Department, and FOT.
All FOT HQ staff work for the benefit of FOT. The loans are monopolized by FOT people, which includes Rodriguez, the points charged are scammed for FOT people and so on.
And the beat goes on...
Andy Rodriguez has ‘cola que le pizen’
Although he flies under the radar in the AA, he has history here.
His parents are, Eliezar, from Calexico, (A.C. Nava’s adopted son, in name only) and Esther, from Pittsburg, CA.
They pastored the church in Hayward, CA, left it in a deficit along with CBAN, left it in a deficit also, and were appointed by A.C. Nava to be Bishop, supervising in Colorado, and to Pastor in Denver, which Eliezar did for many years.
They had 3 sons, and Andy always kept under the radar with the Assembly.
However, once he found a way to make money off the Apostolic members, with the approval and encouragement of his cronie, Vice President Sam Valverde; Andy is slowly surfacing and making his presence felt with the power of the General Board behind him.
He is a pro at this-learned at home.
If he is making so much money off the Assembly, why does he neglect his aging mother who lives alone, barely subsisting, no social security or retirement so she peddles purses and other items in order to survive while he lives high on the hog?
Thanks Van, you're right on time with the information.
between us,
you got the wrong Andy Rodriguez, baboso.
The one you are referring to is dead.
John,
Again you are wrong ! You say we are mocking The Man of God.
You do know we are talking about Pachueco right ?
He is no Man of God and has no annointing. Thats exactly what we are talking about.
A true Man of God would exhibit love and compassion. Not greed, pride and arrogance.
Not just because someone was appointed to a position means that they have God's annointing.
Do you seriously think that God had anything to do with ordaining Rick Ramirez, Eddie Pachueco, Eddie Lopez, Richard Buffet and Daniel Sanchez ???? Please
God's annointing is clearly upon those who he has called and they show forth fruit and have a good report.
ok just for the record my tippy toes do touch the floor when I sit at the throne.
Or is it one of those plastic kiddy port a potties.
Hee Hee
Is Andy the son of Eleazor Rodriquez? Eleazor had a son that died of AIDS, but his name was Ricky.
Is Andy the one who used to steal the money from the offering plate when his dad used to pastor the Denver church?
RE: Andy Rodriguez
He used to go to El Monte. He has a brother who goes to Riverside. The Brother, Dan, is a good guy. Andy goes to FOT and is Maverde's Right Hand Man. If the Pastor wants something, He sends Andy to do his Dirty Work.
Why isn't he listed on the AA website?
You would think that the Main Man advising Malverde on the values of all the churches, drawing a salary, would be listed.
Does Andy draw both a salary and a commission on the pionts he charges the churches? Have any of you had to Refi your church only to have PAID the AA Real Estate Department Mucho $$$$.
You still want Malverde at the helm john 3:16..
how much more can the AA be dragged down the drain.
Malverde and company need to go
Can you all believe that Marc Payaso is on the National Missions Committee ?
And giving seminars ?
Wow they will just use anybody without praying about it first wont they.
Just appoint all your buddies.
Wow wonder if I can get apointed to the dorcas Board..
I'd love to get close to the flor azul money..
No maybe thats not a good idea I would just end up fat and ugly.
Marc Payan ???
Seriously ?
You couldnt find anyone better ?
Yes and we all know that your reading this Payaso.
Go back to teaching High School and leave the Ministry to true Men of God
well hopely he does a good job
and does seminars at local churches
and we get reports where they open up at least 45 bible studies for a single church...Hopely he has some background in work of evangelism and that his life is about soul winning. There are many programs up there that can help a church grow and hopely his doing his part. Iknow you can clown him for his personality but hopely he has works to support a credebility of being a true evangelist..
Pacheco on the pulpit
http://www.superspoof.com/news/story-0026.php
If the following were brought as ponencias (motions) before the Ministerial Body and the entire AA membership, it would rock the Assembly but it would take us back to our true Biblical landmarks.
Is this wishful thinking? Does anyone have the courage to act upon it? Lets try....
1. Board Members should not serve more than 2 terms a total of 8 years.
2. The Board members should not be pastors while serving on the Board.
3. The Bishops should not be pastors while serving as Bishops. Greed for double salaries becomes the norm.
4. To become a Bishop, he should be an Elder for a number of years, and he should have established a set number of churches, (when the obra began in 1916, he had to have established 10 or more churches to qualify as Bishop).
People identify themselves as members of a certain Bishop or Board Members church much like groupies do with celebrities.
Then the Bishops and Pastors require homage, and people are willing to give it to them.
The members WILL NEVER demand that the Board restrict its power. Other members will turn on those who dare speak up.
Too much control and power concentrated in the Districts and in big Churches.
Too much greed, power, control, insecurity, envy, embezzeling, property mismanagement, etc, etc....
The Bishops and HGB members love to go to speak at a seminar that will give them as much money as a celebrity gets for a 40 minute screaming session.
Those Pastors who really care are not rewarded and developed into leaders, only those who are street smart and have the spirit of Judas seem to move up on the HGB.
On the GB leadership NOW, Pacheco, Valverde, Aguilar, Artie Espinoza, to name a few, have never been Bishops or Supervisors of any District. That alone disqualifies them to be on the HGB.
Some privileged pastors are able to exploit their congregations, sell the properties that belong to the church and the Board looks the other way.
WHAT DO THESE PASTORS HAVE ON THE BOARD THAT THE BOARD WOULD LET THEM DO THIS?
Why do some Pastors have the church properties in their own family name and it is okay with the General Board? Some pastors can and the rest are not allowed.
5. We must emphasis the doctrine and LIVE BY IT.
6. The constitution HAS TO BE changed and do away with the QC and the CID.
7. We must modify the Bylaws for accountability and distribution of power.
The Prophet Habakkuk admonished that those pastors who neglect their congregations will be held accountable.
One thing is to be anointed by God and the other is to be appointed by the QC….
Jeremiah 5:26-31... makes this HGB transparent to us, along with Baldemar, Salomon and the rest of the consentor:
"Among my people are wicked men who lie in wait like men who snare birds and like those who set traps to catch men...
Like cages full of birds, their houses are full of deceit; they have become RICH AND POWERFUL and have grown FAT AND SLEEK.
Their evil deeds have no limit; they do not plead the case of the fatherless to win it.
They do not defend the rights of the poor.
'Should I not punish them for this?' declares the Lord. 'Should I not avenge myuself on such a nation (or denomination)such as this?'
'A horrible and shocking thing has happened in the land; the prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their OWN authority, and MY PEOPLE LOVE IT THIS WAY!
But what will you do in the end?'
God is asking the question. What will our answer be?
Ed,
You Said :
well hopely he does a good job
and does seminars at local churches
and we get reports where they open up at least 45 bible studies for a single church...
Hopefully ? Payan was appointed to a National Committe. Why in the world did they not appoint a seasoned veteran instaed of him.
Instead of HOPING that he does an effective job.
Hopely he has some background in work of evangelism and that his life is about soul winning. There are many programs up there that can help a church grow and hopely his doing his part.
Again I say Hopefully ? Maybe he should gain the experience and knowledge first then maybe.
Iknow you can clown him for his personality but hopely he has works to support a credebility of being a true evangelist
A true Evangelist ? Doesnt an Evangelist need to have love for people ? He has bad mouthed and berated peole before and he is a jerk period.
I have a question for anyone out there can someone please tell me who was so unwise as to set Marc Payan aside to ministry and then ordain him ? Who would do that ?
Hey "between us," you're an idiot. You are talking foolishness by the droves! Andy Rodriguez has never lived nor had any ties with anyone in Co. Tonto, you are talking about someone totaly off the radar in this issue.
You have just discredited yourself and anything else you ever have to say!
As for Elena Perez, now Mrs. Ojeda, she is happily married with two kids. Husband is a real good brother. Both attend FOT.
Mark Payan is from Arlington church where he was set aside. Don't know where he was ordained. Though not well liked, really smart.
As for FOT and Valverde, a good friend there told me him leaving the aa will never happen and has never even been considered except by those that hate the aa itself.
Marc Payan is a joke
What does being smart have to do with anything ?
We are talking about spiritual matters.
I know he has a Masters in Education but that means NOTHING when it comes to the work of The Lord.
So was he set aside by Almaraz who also took over daddies church?
When will the nepotism and cronyism end ?
The Christian Church is drowning in a flood of human ideas and programs to bring “God’s dreams” to pass. An endless parade of guest preachers and singers compete for our pulpits and the chance to entertain bloated, infantile believers with an acquired taste for shallow, uncommitted Christianity.
Meanwhile, millions are dying of spiritual hunger and thirst outside our bannered walls. We promote popular spirituality and synthetic sincerity to the point where our members dance gaily from one congregation to the next, nibbling daintily at the latest religious smorgasbord of unanointed presentations and powerless pageantry. Somehow, we’re missing the mark.
Van, my intentions for the double post where for the benefit of the one addressed.
Anyway, he/she is discredited!!
Danyosan:
Only PARTIALLY discredited.
Andy Rodriguez still runs the Real Estate Department at HQ. Churches are still and have been FLEECED.
There is still an Inappropriate Relationship between him and Malverde.
Why is he not Listed on the Website? I know of one Church that was charged $100,000 in Fees by the AA Real Estate Department, not including the bank costs for refinancing thier church.
Its not a bad fee to make as a lender. Hey, business is business. But to be charged that by a 501c3? Your own church? The Real Estate Department Charges Fees, makes a PROFIT. That would be somewhat against the IRS Tax Code, a Federal Law.
TIME FOR A PRAISE BREAK!!!
Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_49THEv3co&feature=related
Van, valid argument.
Lawsuit Hearing:
Isn't the Hearing this week? Anyone have the info as to Where and What time?
To discouraged:
How old are you? This is a question you do not have to answer me, just gage your maturity and character. How long have you been taking this abuse?
Why are you pleading to Daniel Sanchez when he can’t even help himself. Look at the mess he is in!
Either pray for your Pastor to be removed by the Lord, or you move out of there.
It sounds like you are in bondage, and you cannot think for yourself. Ask the Lord to deliver you either from your slave mentality or from that church.
If your Pastor is abusive, he needs knowledge of the Word, Christ brought us to PEACE and not to abuse.
Sister, there are many other churches with good Pastors. Tell me the district you are in and I can tell you about a good church and Pastor.
I know of many Pastors who have worked hard in their churches and it shows. Of course, they are still subject to the HGB and their whims, so you will find that some Pastors, if not abusive, will be reserved. No matter, a Man of God shows his fruit.
May the Lord deliver you...
between us;
I'm over 50. I guess the Pastor has been here 4 or 5 years,its his first pastoring Position, and really immature.
I guess you can say I'm between a rock and hard place. My elderly parents go to church in the same place, and can't attend anywhere else because of distance. Other wise I'd be long gone.
When my father goes I have to make sure he makes it in on his walker ok. He has a hard time walking. When he can't make it because his not feeling good I'm responsible for taking my Mom. so you see it would be hard.
Its hard to pray to God to remove the Pastor, because I was brought up to respect the Pastors and not go up against him, but then too they were men that loved God and the church members and were not there for just the pay check.
Thank you for your comment, and by the way its brother not sister.
I reason I pleaded with Sanchez, was maybe down deep inside he has some good still in there somewhere, but it looks like your right. He can't even help himself.
Discouraged:
Its time to stand up to your sorry excuse of a pastor, rebuke him and put him in check.
If he is going to be a spitiual Lame Donkey, he deserves a good rebuking.
Its Time to Fight The Devil. Satan himself is using your pastor. Stand up to him, with the Word in One Hand.
Go to another church? Nope. Sorry. Your family sounds too Vested there.
Don't let a La Puente Bible Schooler take your blessing.
To Discouraged:
Why have you been putting up with that abuse? Find a place that you can worship with liberty without being abused.
The AA will not side with a member before siding with the pastor.
You can call the HGB, Bishop, Elder, THEY WILL NOT HELP YOU.
WHY?
Becuase most of their churches (members) are in the same boat.
THEINSIDER.
To Discouraged:
I am sorry to here that you are going through such a difficult situation like you are. You are not the first and unfortunately you will not be the last.
I would like to encourage you to pray earnestly, and to give yourself options. I know the burden or responsibility of family can be heavy, so I commend you in your desire to help your parents, but remember that you are a value as well. We can all give so much of ourselves for the sake of family that we can neglect our own spiritual well being. I am not advocating abandoning them, but the way you are feeling and with an abusive pastor, you will suffer spiritually.
It doesn't matter how spiritual or "apostolic" one may be, when a pastor beats down on one so much, 2 things can happen:
• You never grow spiritually - thus remain in the same rut or abandon God all together
• Bitterness - leads to a whole list of issues
I can give you my opinions as well, but again these are my opinions:
• Leave that church and find a healthy one (That is assuming you have the ability to do that and that you are in an area were you can)
• Continue to take your parents - but find another place where you can go at a different time so that you can consume something other than ranting and scolding. This will facilitate you with some spiritual nourishment to help you get in the spiritual frame of mind you need to be.
• Unless you have the position or "connections" to complain, it makes no sense to do so. The AA is set up that abuses are overlooked when it makes sense to do so for the bishop etc. If the Lord leads you to do it though, make sure you do it this way-
1. speak to the Pastor (easier said than done - most cant do this though because of the abusive pastor)
2. speak to the elder (this might end up back firing but you are hitting all the right channels on your way up the chain)
3. speak to the district bishop (same as above)
4. speak to a general board member (same as above)
If none of these actions provides a response or change to YOUR specific situation(you cant speak for others, and most of the time they will not speak up thus leaving you to stand on your own) - and if the situation is that serious - investigate your legal options. If not, then ultimately you are going to have to take it and live with your situation. Believe it or not, you have the power to make the changes to this situation by separating yourself from an abusive church. We are not supposed to be sheep sent to the slaughter anymore! Jesus paid the price for that already!
Former-AA,
That was very good advice for "Discouraged".
"Discouraged", I would advise you to prayerfully re-evaluate your values and prioritize your values in a way that will help bring you in closer relationship with Christ.
Most AA members have a flawed value system which results in the neglect of their marriages, children, personal spiritual/physical health, etc. For some reason, in the AA, the value of "self" seems to get lost somewhere down the line. The undernourishment of "self" sickens the body of Christ, but the nourishment of "self" makes the body of Christ stronger.
By redefining your values, you will then start to develop healthy boundaries for your life in order to maintain your values. Sometimes that means making drastic changes that are not always pleasant. But nourishment isn't always convenient or fun.
Again, prayerfully reconsider was is important, always having the big picture in mind - the body of Christ. Is your life contributing to the wellness of Christ's body? If not, then changes in your life need to be made. Your spiritual health is Christ's desire for you, find it.
To discouraged:
As a former pastor, and one who moved to be closer to family, the church has been left in the hand of an abusive man, I have written, DS,GB have appealed to the bishop, who just says I should never have left, they will not do anything.. Those dear brethern still call me, I send them preaching, and also bible material I get.. In other words I pastor from afar. I have been called and told to stop this.. by the bishop.. he told me that those brothers are just being hard on the pastor, I told him I place more credit to the hermanos, then I do to a man that can beat down the people that are bringing other to church. Well they call me, because after a very hard beat down from the alter, they stayed and said they wanted to talk to the pastor.. They let him have it, they told him of his actions, they made him responsible. but did he change, NO.. He is still abusive, but they pray, they read the bible, they fellowship. We used to have them all at our house, he doesn't even want them to visit.
The said thing is, even if you comfronted this man, he would not change. He will find a way to justify his actions in his own mind, or just say that you all are just rebellious..Men like that can only be brought down by God, and even then they are so stubborn ,Like Saul, that he will hold onto the Pastoral crown, even while the ship is sinking. Some pastors get full of themselves, not comprehending, the church, the people, are the Lords.
Please take the advise you have recieved, talk to him, if does not listen talk to the bishop, if he doesn't listen, well I was going to say talk to DS, but he won't listen right now.. Hand him over to God.. One thing is being rebellious, but you have been there long enough. 4-5 yrs, you have stuck it out, and as people of God you deserve a leader that is LEAD, by God.
TO Discouraged:
Why are you still there? Just to let you know there is life outside of your local church and outside of the AA.
If you read his explanation as to "why" he is still there yo will understand the dilemma a bit better.
This is an email from Daniel Ramirez, Ph.D. who is regarded as an historian on oneness pentacostal movements
***** start *****
This is what I call the structural implosion of Oneness Pentecostalism, what with the UPCI troubles, ,the split of Chicago's Brazier and LA's Jones from the PAW, and now this in the Assembly.
There are allegations of vote fraud in some of the general board positions voted on in the 2006 general convention in Long Beach. Some of the incumbents and senior emeriti and junior pastors have formed an opposition that may be taking its case to the courts. We're talking big names. Of course, if they go to California courts, the Assembly has a 100% batting average there. If they go to Texas, the odds may be different. This does not break down simply, or the way that differences over standards and practices might, that is, not easy conservative-moderate-liberal divide here. More personality dynamics. Personally, I was blindsided. I predicted that the first cleavages (cochino, get your mind out of the gutter!) would be over standards, women's empowerment, ,etc., but I do think that if one peels away layers of ostensible differences and charges and counter-charges, at base it comes down to pride and power, male pride and power. In this, the Assembly's troubles are much like those of the UPCI and PAW.
The ironic thing is, that the governing board that came out of the general convention was, IMHO, perhaps the best equipped one to handle today's and tomorrow's challenges. I've been consulted by the education secretary to help him and his team think about ratcheting up the quality of theological education. They have now made serious inroads with Fuller Seminary and Claremont School of Theology. But all this and more may be jeopardized by the charge of voting irregularities. NOT, mind you, that the AA was ever a paradigm of democratic governance.....
I think the ball is really in the oppostion's court. If they press beyond this by now very clear protest over integrity, and take it to the next level, then they may pass a point of no return. Again, power, pride, and humilty are the key variables in the outcome. They just wrapped up general convention in Texas. I will be in touch with my sources soon.
Of course, I've been asked by many pastor friends for my opinion as a historian. I tell them that the historian doesn't take sides. He has the luxury of showing up on the day after the battle to count the bodies. Then we declare winners and losers. On the other hand, given my deep roots in the Assembly, it does not fail to pain me to see them go through this. Ditto the UPCI, and for that matter, the PAW.
Maybe Catholic cardenal Jacopo Salodeto was right when he warned the Protestant citizens of Geneva that once they split from the organic unity of the Christian Church, they would never stop splitting......
*edited* (basically look for his forthcoming book on Harvard Press and he might be teaching there soon...smartypants)
Love,
Tu carnal
********* end ***********
Source: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/archive/index.php/t-9900.html
95 Theses:
WTH? """Love, Tu Carnal"""
Dude, are you quoting the FLOR AZUL'ers?
Oh, well now. Thats just great.
Homies do not, no straight guy ever, never, ever, never says: and I repeat """Love, Tu Carnal"""
Thats a real pLuto thing to say.
Everyone who is against the practice of homosexuality needs to bombard the offices of General Headquarters to bar this kind of person from writing any articles and from claiming to represent the Apostolic Assembly as a self appointed historian. We have our own historians.
He claims to have deep Apostolic roots but that is a lie. Most of his family have gone with the UPC and have been with them for years.
Where does he get off representing the Apostolic Assembly? Two uncles on the Board does not give him rights or privilges or even his own 'deep roots.'
He claims to have a doctorate from Duke University, but as I understand it, he is still a candidate and has been for years, if that is even true. (easy enough to check out)
Homosexuality is a huge issue that has permeated our church and entrenched itself firmly among us.
It is funny to call these folks 'Flor Azuler's' but there is devestation in the lives of innocent boys who were caught up in this evil web and we have even lost young men; children of high ranking clergy, to the dreaded disease that accompanies this lifestyle.
Who stops this type of person from infiltrating the church?
He claims that he has many Pastors friends who want him to write about the events in our AA. But as far as I have seen, he is generally alone when he makes his appearance at Assembly events.
Maybe he has underground groupies that we don't know about.
This is just one more issue that has been ignored by our Board and even by our membership.
Do we ever do anything about sin?
Or is our only sin no velos no rings or pants on women?
The three Apostolic 'P's of sin....
...Pintura
...Pantalon
...Peinado
Real evil....real sin is shoved under the rug.
Merry Christmas to all, and thanks for all the support, and I mean support.
Well off to the bank...LOL
Hello…
Well said. It is true, Job said it, Paul said it, they (the homosexuals) are wolverines, dressed in male clothing with teeth as a Dracula who brand young innocent Apostolic boys into their sinister lifestyle and corruption.
But no one cares.
What the assembly has stooped too.
And they blow up for women wearing a little make-up and not wearing velos.
What a bunch of backstabbers!
At least Dr. Dan Phd will admit he's a homo.
Edward Pacheco denies he's a crook.
What do ya know, the homo is more honest.
As the guy who posted the good doc's comments, I only did it becuase I thought this guy was legit because I saw an article he wrote in some AA magazine, somewhere.
As I stated in the "2007 General Convention Editorial" section, I don't know this guy, but if he's writing for the AA and what all been written about him is true then we're in deeper trouble than I thought. How is he related to the GB? Who's his uncle?
I’m just building on what ‘Ring of Fire’ had to say….
Remembering the times of ACN…when he was Pastor of a church in L.A., a couple of young fellows wanted to play ball in the street, they were put on discipline and eventually were run out of the assembly.
How is it that now, his own son-in-law can play golf all the while he was Bishop and Pastor of the church his father-in-law (ACN) handed him?
The Pastor/golfers wife has to keep her hair snow white, it would be a sin to dye it, but NOW it is NOT a sin to play golf.
All this to say that the overall injustice wrought upon the MEMBERSHIP of the Assembly...
and the open, willful non-compliance of the rules by the LEADERSHIP of the Assembly, does re-enforce the thought, ‘What has the Assembly stooped to.’
Alert!!
This coming 28 Dan Sanchez Ed Pacheco
and Abel Aguilar are going to Midland Tex to visit Bishop Abel Torres.
El DÃa de Los Santos Inocentes, falls on the 28th December. What does it mean? Well, it is the Spanish equivalent of April Fool's Day.
And, just like it's counterpart, jokes abound and tricks will be played.
Why don't all the HGB go along for the free ride. Why do do they need 3. When all they is need is 2 vote eddie to go. He has been worming his way out of scams he has been part of for years.
The bad part malverde will be left alone at GHQ to do as he pleases.
Sanchez better worry that when he comes back Malverde hasn't taken his parking slot.
Why is agular going for all he is good for is shouting and you never understand a thing he says.
I understand the GB will be meeting with Bishop Torres on Dec. 28th. They must have some fire-proof plan; otherwise, they would not have made it mandatory that all pastors attend a meeting that same evening.
Ring of fire and knowledge have both stated something that leaves room for speculation.
Why do they need three of the board members? Secondly, why do they have to call up all the pastors of that particular district?
One of two reasons.
1. Torres will tell all the pastors that he is now is on the side of the General Board.
or
2. They are going to try and remove him from being Bishop.
I guess we will find out on Friday.
So the pastor's that voted him in at their convention are going to vote him out.
The plan does not seem to well planned out.
Sanchez is not as delirious as he wants people to think he is.
In placing Abel Torres Bishop, Abel becomes part of the Episcopal Body, where he is subject to the General Board. They can control him or remove him.
Baldemar and Salomon were not in the meetings of the Board and Calificadora at the 2006 election in Long Beach. They have no proof the election fraud.
Abel Torres is the only one who has that information. If he backs off, Salomon and Baldemar do not have a case.
I would like to encourage Bishop Abel Torres not to back off with what you are doing even if it means you have to relinquish your position as Bishop.
The Assembly, in all its levels, will know that you are true to what you believe and they will stand behind you.
If the Board demands your resignation as Bishop if you continue the lawsuit, fear not, go ahead and do so. The Lord will reward you for your valor.
You will be considered a hero by every single member of the Assembly, along with every Minister, Elder, Pastor and Bishop.
The Gangsters on the General Board will be thrown out, then the election can be held freely. That may put you in line to be President, where I believe you can do the most good.
“Finally, be strong in the Lord, in His mighty Power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Therefore, put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.
Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. Ephesians 6: 10-15
Please believe that we are all praying for you.
I agree with the last deleted blog that if Bishop Abel Torres is forced to resign, it would start world war III.
Boy, would it ever. We are all supporting Bishop Torres.
I think we all need to show our support to Bishop Torres for STANDING UP FOR JUSTICE. He will not gain anything out of this. He is only thinking about the future of OUR Church.
Let's show our support by letting him know we are behind him. I was given his e-mail address for those who want to show their support- atorres111@aol.com
Thank you Bishop Torres!
Thanks for his e-mail.
I will definitely send hima letter of encouragement as we believe he is doing what is right.
Why didn't Malverde go. His the expert in strong arm blackmail.
May Sanchez thought it was better to take 2 vote eddie for his way of slimeing out of scams.
May he took Aguilar if eddie failed Aguilar could start crying to him that his marriage is doom if he loses his HGB position.
UPDATE UPDATE!
Bishop Abel Torres has been removed as Bishop of North West Texas.
I guess the GB wanted to take out the whistle-blower.
Time will tell what will happen and God has a plan!
"All hell will break loose, if those extremists suspend our beloved Bishop Torres".
Can someone confirm this? If so, can someone from that district give us the reasons the GB gave for this action.
It is confirmed. It is true.
REVOLUTION!
The GB gave no reasons whatsoever to why, no constitutional process nothing, tonight they want the pastors to elect a new bishop. This is outrageous.
I can tell you that this is confirmed. The General Board decided to remove Bishop Torres because he would not fold...
He has decided to do what was right and not follow the crowd. I just wish we had more men with integrity like him.
I believe that God is raising Bishop Torres as the Man to lead us out of this mess that the General Board has placed us in...
Just for your information... President Sanchez "asked" Bishop Torres for forgivness when he came to the District Convention back in October...He admitted his wrong doing but has done nothing to mend the situation...
Think about it people and members of the Assembly!
Just step back and think about what is happening... They are trying to shut down the voice of the people.
This is the organization we live in...When we speak up, we are reprimanded and banned...
Im not saying that we should protest and disrespect Men of God...
But at the very least opposing voices should be allowed. This helps our Assembly to be healthy...
We will not compromise on our Beliefs, values but we can have opposing views on Methods, organization, structure and especially in this case injustices!
Differing views done with love and a godly spirit can be healthy for our church. But our leaders have been arrogant and anything that does not conform to them is totally rejected.
If you do oppose them... You are marked! Sad, very sad.
To ALL in AA who are sick & tired:
Just one word-
2 Cor. 6:17,18 (2=witness / 6=man)
"Come OUT from among them (aka the harlot system), and be ye separate,
says the LORD, and touch not (rub elbows w/) the unclean thing; and I
will receive you, AND will be (the)
FATHER unto you, and you shall BE my sons & daughters, says the LORD Almighty."
There is NO security in religious bondage my friends- I am NOT sorry!
ps The revolution will not be on tv
Alert! News!
The General Board decided to oust Bishop Torres, then decided to re-vote on a new Bishop.
BUT ALL PASTORS CONTINUED TO VOTE FOR BISHOP TORRES!
MORE THAN ONCE THEY CONITNUED TO VOTE HIM IN. WOW!
As of today, is Bro. Torres still Bishop or not?
I've seen comments that "the GB decided to remove Bro. Torres," but as of today is he Bishop?
It is sad that it has come to this. As a close family member to Bro. A. Torres I am here to say that we sincerely thank God for looking down on us and for continuing to work in wonderful and mysterious ways. However, I know for a fact that Bro. Torres is still praying for a miracle solution to this fiasco with the least damage to the wonderful souls who love and care for our church. Bro. Abel is not down or is he out he is still a pastor of the Midland church where he is dearly loved and supported by his loving christian family. He remains strong in the Lord knowing that there was no other alternative for whatever actions he has taken. The Torres family has deep roots within the assembly not to mention the late Bro. Valentin B. Torres. A great, honorable and hardworking man who loved his church and who would have been terribly saddened to know of these occurrences.
To everyone who reads this blog please take a moment to say a prayer each time before you open it up. Pray for a miracle that the next time you look in here things start to look positive and we can all put this nightmare behind us and begin to heal and move forward. I can assure all of you that this is the greatest wish of the Torres family. Bro. Torres wasn’t looking for glory and he doesn’t care about being the “winner” nor does he care about positions all he wants is to right a wrong that was committed and hope that it never happens again.
An anecdote: When he was a young man in the MOP I recall an election for MOP district president where the only vote for anyone other than for Bro. A. Torres was the one cast by himself. God was already setting him aside for His work. God Bless.
P.S. It would be nice to refrain from making derogatory remarks of anyone I’m sure its not going to help. None of us are perfect but shouldn’t we all be trying to be the best Christians we can be?!
Bishop Torres is a stand up guy and he is in this for the right reasons.
Whatever the outcome I am confident that ultimately The Lord's will shall prevail.
We are behind you Bishop Torres.
Down with the old guard ! Down with the old regime.
Long live truth justice and freedom in Christ !
Que Viva La Revolucion !
Ravia Contra La Maquina !
The Old Regime must go !
Antiquated Views
No Vision
Outdated Methods
Poor interpretation of Scripture
That is what defines the current General Board more of the same.
Except for one Man on the board. You know who you are . Seperate yourself from this sinking ship pastor.You can do great without the old man.
I'll tell you for the last time- for the last time, for the love of God and for the saving of your own souls.
It is time to let GOD be our FATHER, (meaning our covering, provider and supreme protector). No more AA HQ's foolishness!! Jesus, himself asked, foxes have holes, birds have nests, but the Son was seeking where to rest(connect) His head on. We can be the people that walk out and disconnect from a very dysfunctional & skeletal HQ, and be joined up w/ His life-giving rule!
IT IS GOD'S KINGDOM TIME, AWAY WITH THE BARREN AND BARBARIC AA SYSTEM..
Arrogance,pride and greed have finally caught up to the Assembly.
This is God cleaning house and if somehow Sanchez retains power it will be against God's will.
I will follow the opposition if there is a split.
If Sanchez stays I will definitely go. If Sanchez leaves I will definitely stay.
I want to align myself with God's will and plan not a man that has the reverse Midas touch.
Instead of Gold everything he touches turns to caca.
Every Pastor he has appointed has sucked.
And every Pastor he has removed and retaliated against are always true Men of God.
Im now officialy giving Daniel Sanchez the nickname SADIM wich is Midas spelled backwards.
Daniel SADIM Sanchez the worst President The Assembly has EVER had !
Thanks alot SADIM !!!!!!!
Interesting.... I came across a letter on the Apostolic Assembly letters that Bishop Abel Torres wrote to Pres. Sanchez.
Am I the first to have come across this?
I read it also. Very interesting. Has anyone else read this new letter from Abel Torres to President Sanchez dated 12/22/07 in the apostolicassembly.info website? If so what is you take on it, please elaborate!
La Paz de Cristo. Is that what you mean? This is a very solemn greeting of the Apostolic Assembly, and should be treated as such.
You are right that Bro. Abel Torres was pleading to Sanchez for peace to no avail.
I guess you do not know Daniel Sanchez. He is an extremely selfish, self centered, insecure and stubborn individual.
When he was a Pastor in Tucson, Arizona, he was so stubborn that he never paid his tithes of tithes to the District of Arizona. He was totally insubordinate to his Bishop in Arizona.
He then moved to Solana Beach here in CA and began to behave as a pseudo psycho-analyst and psychologist to his congregation when in reality he has the equivalent of a sixth grade education.
His next move was to Anaheim, CA as Pastor where he took over the property of those elderly members of his church.
He controlled the Los Angeles district harshly, heartlessly with no Christian compassion whatsoever.
He was elected President because the QC felt that because he was over 70, he would be a man of experience and wisdom and would protect the Assembly.
We have all found out that what he has is a street wise, worldly mind rather than Spiritual wisdom, understanding and knowledge.
When there were issues to be addressed to him by the Pastors concerning church members, Sanchez would always be on the side of the one who was going to do the most harm to the Pastor or the District.
Sanchez does not work for peace. He works for discord, division and destruction. These three things are his agenda. They are also on the agenda of Baldemar and Salomon. They are three of a kind. No compassion or empathy.
Sanchez came from a very dysfunctional family. Baldemar was a hard-core Mariachi, and Dan Salomon had a lot of domestic issues in his home as a child.
Do not expect compassion from these men. The more you plead with them and behave as a Christian, the more you feed their distorted egos and the crueler they are to you.
Remember,remember,remember.... you are not dealing with God fearing men, you are dealing with hard core cruel men on their own agenda.
Bro Abel Torres is an educated, God fearing man. He was brought up by God fearing parents, co-founders of the work in west Texas. He father, Valentin Torres was a great man of God. Abel has never been a cholo. He is not street smart.
If you have been in the AA long enough, you know that these 8 Board members are transparent, their flaws are readily seen and felt.
But they know that we feed their egos by the homage we pay them, how we revere them, and the excessive way we acknowledge them in the Conventions as we ignore our humble brethren.
Do not tell me not to touch these ‘men of God.’ They do not behave in a way that becomes the title. If they did, we would not be having this conversation. “By their fruits, you will know them.”
As we continue to write on this blog, it becomes more appparent who the HGB really is.
NOW, what do we do about it? We have no voice or vote. We don't want to leave because we love the AA and have been taught that this is the way we get to heaven.
Very interesting developments as well as the comments posted. I do need to comment on "knowitall's" comments - "We don't want to leave because we love the AA and have been taught that this is the way we get to heaven."
This is not directed to "knowitall" or an attack on anyone's "faith", I just feel the need to share my opinions on this idea of AA/heaven.
The AA is not the way to get to heaven. Your salvation is not based on your membership to an organization. We are part of a bigger body of believers. The AA is an organization, not the end all to the body of Christ. It is folly to believe that the AA or the UPC are the only peoples' that will be in heaven.
It is unfortunate that many AA's identity as Christians are tied to an organization. What if the AA ended tomorrow? What would happen to all those who breath and die "AA"? Many wouldn't be able to make it without the sector services, district camps, conventions because their local church's are so dependent on a system. Their local churches do not provide the necessary tools and growth that they need and their identity becomes connected to a organization or methods that are outside of any solid scriptural context.
Please do not misread my intent on this. The core of our faith is New Testament. Acts 2:38, etc. It's when you have people afraid to step out to a bigger role in God's body because they no longer belong to AA. I dont remember Paul flashing his "AA ministerial credentials". The AA is an Org. It has tax advantages and is supposed to make organizing better... but that is why we have been hear in these blogs isn't it.
What has an AA credential ever done for anyone ?
I have heard young men that were not even ordained expound on the word far more effectively than most of the GB.
I posted this on the other site regarding what Bro. Torres said about the anger of the bloggers....
I understood what you were saying about Bishop Abel Torres’ letter to Sanchez regarding all the anger on the blogs. I would like to elaborate further on what Bro. Torres was trying to say.
You mentioned that there is a lot of hurt brought about by ‘dysfunctional and corrupt leadership who were allowed to rise to ministry.’
There is also a lot of anger and rage outside of the blogs, which has been perpetuated by the injustice and discrimination also on the part of the leadership.
Someone wrote that the theology of the Assembly has gone so astray, that there really isn’t any. That begs the question. If we are not living by a correct theological understanding of our doctrine, what are we living by?
And that brings us to what is happening today, because there is no law that anyone seems to be living, so what do we have? It is called Anarchy. Synonyms to anarchy are rebellion, chaos, mayhem......
We have been conditioned to a cult mentality; programmed, expected to behave;
Hear nothing,
Say nothing,
See nothing and
Do nothing.
This is also part of our cultural issues;
patronismo,
nacionalismo y
machismo.
This is not so much a spiritual issue, but a cultural and carnal issue.
We allow our leadership to act as princes and princesses, lording above the common man.
And should the common person ask of or question these higher ups, we are treated deplorably, shunned and blackballed. Not treated as children of God or a royal priesthood, but at a source of money, adulation and idolizers.
Do you think there isn’t any anger among the Varones, nationally? Remember that they had a president who was also a Pastor, and who was re elected (appointed) over and over.
Were there no other qualified men during that time who could be President of the Varones? All the men of this group are good for is FUNDRAISING and being in charge of chauffeuring Board members and delivering them to the best hotels.
Do you think there isn’t any rage among the Dorcas who have had the same President and Vice President since the world was flat?
Are there no other qualified women who could do this job? The ladies of the Dorcas feel that they are only good for servitude, raising vast amounts of money to hand over to the General Board by the Ladies Pres & VP.
Do you think there isn’t any rage among the Messengers of Peace, when they think that they are actually voting for someone to lead them, and then find out that someone else was appointed despite the vote?
Don’t you think there is anger and rage in the whole assembly when the Pastors are put to fast and pray during elections, don’t eat for 14 hours, only so that Baldemar could be named by the ‘hermana cali, la descalificadora’ for 23 years, as President, Vice President, President, Vice President.....?
Don’t you think there isn't anger on the part of Dan Salomon when during the reign of Baldemar, he was kept away from the General Board, except for positions on Committees?
Don’t you think that the missionaries aren't angry that the money of the Flor Azul and the Dorcas is not sent to them, but used by the General Board for their extravaganzes?
Don't you think that the Pastors and church people were angry to hear that the missionary from Mississippi had to go to another denomination for help when the money collected nationally by Abel Aguilar for him and other missionaries was never sent to the missionaries and a million dollars was sent elsewhere?
Don’t you think that there wasn't anger on the part of the Pastors who had to give $5,000 at the Convention at the Gaylord, their members hard earned money - money that was going to be used to sue each other?
Don’t you think that the Assembly is angry because Sanchez, Pacheco, Valverde, Aguilar should have improved relationship between the Board and the Assembly, but rather worsened it with continued election fraud? Dan Sanchez was taught about election fraud by Baldemar.
Don’t you think that the AA is angry because Baldemar and Salomon, two political rivals are now in cahoots, suing the Assembly?
Don’t you think there isn’t anger among those brethren who have made mistakes that the Assembly considers ‘unpardonable sins’ and are unable to be restored, when children of the leadership are allowed to fail and be restored over and over again?
We can go on all night, but don’t you think that the bloggers and people who are not bloggers are angry because the Bishops have to favor and cater to the General Board in order to be ‘appointed’ then can be removed on a whim by the GB?
Don't you think that people get angry at Pastors who exploit their members, the finances of the church and when it is brought up to the Board by a member, the Board takes the side of the errant Pastor?
Could it be that the Pastor may have something on some of those Board members?
I think that the correct term of ‘angry’ is more than right.
I have just elaborated a little tiny bit, but if you go into history, you will dig up the sources of all this accumulated anger.
Concluding here.... if we were able to remove our masks of anonymity which allows us to vent our anger, how long would we survive the onslaught of retalilation by not only the Board but our holier-than-thou Peers?
Unfortunately, shamefully, we would turn on each other in favor of the Board, and allow them to continue to destroy those who would dare oppose them.
We are angry because there is no solution.
Bro. Torres sees this anger, but he doesn't write with boldness and courage, rather he appealing to the conscience of a man who doesn't have one.
What other blog are you posting at?
Thanks
am i wrong to say
that this church at the moment
its far from being the true church of acts where miracles happen
where many people would get saved?
now its about titles and positions
about people being taken away from positions.. about wearing a vail and along dress?
the apostolic assembly VS The church of the acts of the apostols.. now you hear "el estimado""El Obispo""my love offering" i love being an apostolic where God would Move in such a powerful way..now we hear preachings such as "what does this 12 stones represent" so to brother torres just many are frustrated and many are still part of the apostolic assembly but have given up at the current leadership. YOu your self saw what happen, so we know whats wrong but we are used to being put down if you say something agaist what is wrong. Iknow you have to respect authority but you suppost to take away any practice that does not bring glory to God.. the sins of the leadership comes out now in the net but remember the sins of the leadership came out in the bible..
Big Ed,
You are correct.
I recall the days in which I would see miracles performed on a regular basis.
And the move of God was strong and our services were power packed.
I dont know what happened but our generation is missing it.
We definitely lack something or are on the wrong track for a reason.
Bro. Enrique the problem is in the following. We have been for years been taught that God moves in a box. Now we have preachers preaching against the "box" only to present us with a whole NEW box.
If we believe in God in his fullness it happens. If our preachers can turn a blind eye to how the people are dressed, how the people respnd, and just give himself completely to God's leading as if her were alone, then we would see the manifestations we sooo desire.
i recently found this website a few days ago. and i must admit i ive been reading ever since sometimes with my jaw on the floor. I was raised in the aa and my father was a wonderful man of God and so was my grandfather. After reading all that has been said i felt that i needed to repent, just for reading it...I am so glad that God is my judge and my forgiver cause if any of you were i would already be in Hell...i know in some way you will accountable for me not geting baptized cause after all this i dont feel the need.
So which one is it Kimberly? Did it make you want to repent or reject God?
PAZ DE CRISTO; EN ESTOS MOMENTOS QUE LA IGLESIA ESTA PASANDO POR MOMENTOS DIFICILES,LO MEJOR QUE TODOS PODEMOS ACR ES ORAR FERBIENTEMENTE, EL DIABLO (EL SENOR LO REPRENDA)STA ENOJADO PORQUE SAVE QUE LE QUEDA POCO TIEMPO,OREMOS POR NUESTROS LIDERES EN LUGAR DE ESTAR VUSCADO ERRORES,ACUERDATE HERMANO QUE TAMIEN SON HUMANOS IGUALITOS QUE TU Y YO.DIOS ME LOS BENDIGA A TODOS
Amen Hno. Apostolico.
No nos olvidemos de seguir orando por los miembros de la mesa directiva. Que el Senor tenga a bien de abrir sus ojos como a Balaam.
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