COMMENTS HAVE BEEN DISABLED IN THIS SECTION. FEEL FREE TO COMMENT IN THE LATEST BLOG. Apostolic VoiceThe election irregularities of the 2006 General Convention impact the members of its organization in different ways. After seeing the way this has been used for a one sided discussion, it is imperative that an unbiased view be allowed to moderate its discussion.
For those that are aware of the legal implications and jockeying, please feel free to add your opinion here. As previous stated, this site will be moderated for its content.
1,047 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 801 – 1000 of 1047 Newer› Newest»Shutter Scam Story is still up on CBS2 News.
So much for that "Retraction"
Not only should you trust God but you need to trust your leaders also!
Not only should you be loyal to God but you need to be loyal to your leaders!
Not only should you have faith in God but you need to have faith in your leaders!
"Touch not my anointed"
all criticism of our leaders are slanderous or malicious.
Not only should you imitate Jesus but you need to imitate your leaders
October 5, 2007 8:28 PM
Anonymous said...
One of the most common errors found in Christianity today is that particular persons, usually pastors or evangelists, are somehow more "anointed" than the average Christian. This teaching often coincides with a veiled threat in the form of "touch not mine [the Lord's] anointed," (I Ch. 16:22, Ps. 105:15).
The term "anointing" means to "authorize, or set apart, a person for a particular work or service," (Is.61:1). The New Testament is absolutely clear on whom the anointing rests - ALL of Christ's disciples, who are God's very own, set apart and commissioned for service (2 Cor. 1:21). The New Testament does not support the notion of a "greater" anointing based on "position" and such teaching has its origin in a fundamental misunderstanding of the relationship between the Old and New Testaments.
Proponents of this error fail to use careful exegesis to discern the difference between the Old Testament call of a "prophet," where the anointing rested on one man (Is. 61:1, I Sam. 26:9,11, 2 Sam. 22:51, 2 Chr. 6:42), and the New Testament call of a "priesthood of believers" (I Pet. 2:5,9). Certainly there are diversities of gifts, but the Spirit [or anointing] remains the same (I Cor. 12). Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, and many others have long terrorized God's people with "touch not mine anointed" nonsense if anyone dared question them or their teaching. Anyone who has a gift (all have gifts, 1 Cor. 12:7-11), has a ministry, and anyone who has a ministry, has authority and is anointed.
As this issue presses our organization. We need to all reflect on the events of this year. We need to realize that God is trying to teach us all a lesson.
We have seen over and over again since this all began how pride and arrogance has gotten in the way of God.
This serves to shows us that we all need a stronger relationship with God. We need to pray more, fast more, and keep focused on God more.
This shows us that no matter how great one might be we are never above the rest. We all should serve not be served. This includes myself. I believe God has shaken us to make us re-evaluate our lives.
As time grows short for those who believe and trust in God not man. We will see more and more incidents such as this.
We must all focus on God not on man. Men were born into a sinful nature.
We must focus on God and strive to have a better relationship with God.
Many people that have written in here or other blogs have brought valid points to the table.
I am a pastor's kid with a last name. I just see that God will use me at his time not at my father's convince.
We need to all work on truly caring for everyone in our congregations.
We need to hear the people.
We are no one with out God. This can be applied to everyone.
So to every Pastor, leader, minister, and their families let us begin to change our mind sets.
Congregations instead of talking about the leaders try, talk directly to them. We need to put bias and bitterness aside and start working for the over all good. We need to focus on winning souls, caring for the lost and stop worrying about the numbers. God be with each and everyone of us even though we are not directly in the fire. It still affects every one of us and our families.
With great love and hope for everyone, Leader or Not we are all great in the eyes of God. Let us pray that it never goes to our heads.
May God bless each and every one of you and your families.
You need to obey even when you don't feel right about!
Doubts and criticism of our leadership equals sin.
Is slanderous, divisive or factious.
It will cause members to loose jobs, promotions or deter them from school or other goals or family activity
RIDICULOUS!
Blind obedience?!?!
Are you a Priest? Even the Mule did not blindly obey the prophet - when the prophet was wrong!
Remember: we believe in the AA that after God our presiding bishop.
Bro. Aguilar has always remind us of this truth.
I do obey I love my bishop he may not be the most qualified but I love him and try to do my best to listen to him. He may not be the most popular Bishops but I love him and his family all the same. Why because even though he is not over qualified he follows God not his own ego. This is why I appreciate him and his family. There is a big difference following a man truly guided by God.
ANOTHER HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE;
The truth is that the pastors of the Apostolic Assembly truly do not care for their families.
The Bible states, "He that does NOT TAKE CARE OF HIS OWN IS WORSE THAN AN INFIDEL AND HE HAS DENIED THE FAITH.
In the years past, the General Conventions were held on December 27-3l. Everyone would atttend, and there were many, and some in very dire situations. The lodging were in church members homes and even neighbors of the brethren would help out.
Sal Mendoza, who had roots with the Jehovah Witnesses, made the conventions on these holidays because they were not celebrated by him or his family who are all Jehovah Witnesses, then from the city of Oxnard, California.
Sal Mendoza was the Messenger's of Peace President, but is no longer affiliated with the Aposotlic Assembly, he presided sometime in the 1970's (I have to see the Heraldo's I have from that time).
The General Board during that time agreed. One GB said "It is okay with me, I"d rather be away from my home at that time, my wife cannot even "cook" a turkey."
So it has continued with that date for the Messengers of Peace, but now even the MINISTERIAL CONVENTION ARE BEING HELD DURING THE NATIONAL THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY. When they can have it any other time of the year. This is A NATIONAL HOLIDAY FROM THE FIRST CONGRESS TO THANK GOD, A TIME TO pause and make rememberence of the PILGRAMS WHO BROUGHT FREEDOM OF RELIGION. etc.....
I realize that many of the Pastor are first generation immigrants do not celebrate the holidays, but those who are from here, do.
MANY FAMILY MEMBERS, GRANDPARENTS, SIBLINGS AND OTHER RELATIVES FEEL BAD AND BETRAYED BY THE 'PASTOR AND WIFE' WHO PREFER TO BE WITH SANCHEZ, VALVEDERDE, ETC., IN THE CONVENTION.
AND THEN THEY WONDER WHY THEY LOSE THEIR KIDS TO OTHER CHURCHES. THIS IS SINFUL AND NEGLECTFUL...
THANKS BROTHER SAL MENDOZA.
The AA is so incompatible with today's family lifestyle that the AA has become irrelevant to modern day families. The AA puts more emphasis on rules rather than facilitating a family environment where one can feel comfortable and at ease.
It's sad to say that most of the AA membership are second, third or fourth generation apos. Everyone at convention looks alike because they're either cousins, aunts, or uncles. There is no wave of freshly converted families or individuals. The trademark of the AA is not Christ, the AA is known for veils, skirts, no make-up and no thanksgiving feasts because families are halfway across the country in Anaheim.
The AA has become irrelevant and unless the AA changes it's strategy, the only growth it will see is when the now second and third generation apostolics start having babies. This my friends is called a dynasty, not the body of Christ.
Thanksgiving, XMAS are all Pagan Holidays.
Thanksgiving? We celebrate the arrival of genocide to the Americas?
XMAS? We commercialize the birth of our Savior.
These are sacred days to you? I bet you also celebrated Columbus Day. The celebration of the discovery of something that was already there, by a genocido.
I'm Protesting Convention because of the Election Debacle.
I'll spend my money at End Time.
Anonymous wrote: "These are sacred days to you?"
You're as dull as a door knob. I feel sorry for your children.
dull as a door knob? I'll take that as a compliment since I refuse to commercialize Our Savior.
I'll take the other as a compliment as well since I refuse to celebrate genocidos.
At least Thanksgiving doesn't try to be a religious holiday.
As for Christmas - We should celebrate the birth of Christ - We should not get caught up in the pagan comercialization.
It's funny to hear of churches canceling service because Sunday is Christmas day.
Why feel sorry for the children? Maybe the Bro/Sis that wrote blesses their family all year instead of waiting for select days determined by others.
These are my holidays. Even is there is service.
NBA Playoffs
A certain teams games from the Western Conference.
Arizona Cardinal Games
If I go to serice during any of these, I'm usually catching the updates on my blackberry.
Its called (multi-tasking). I can hear the preaching and get updates on scores at the same time. Techology has been a blessing for us sports fans since we don't have to stay home and miss church when the Suns games are on.
If it gets boring during offering at convention, just text your brother or play a game on the phone/blackberry.
You need to obey even when you don't feel right about!
Doubts and criticism of our leadership equals sin.
Is slanderous, divisive or factious.
It will cause members to loose jobs, promotions or deter them from school or other goals or family activity
LOL come on Eddie don't get scared!!! the job you have now was never reallly yours to start of. Well not with just 2 votes. Yours and sammys.
Joke of the day:
What's the most Pachueco has ever owned - legally?
Answer: 2 votes
Answer: His Chonis
Sam Valverde consiguió un préstamo de $50,000. de su iglesia para que él pueda imprimir los folletos de paloma y aguila que él vende. The large and small baptismal charts he sells for baptism bible study.
Yo me pregunto si eso es ético o si él pagó jamás lo apoya.
If you ask me...most of GB is bad. Starting with Sanchez...He left Tucson, AZ with a bad rap. He ended up here in Southern California because a bishop saved him from his misery. It is well documented. You can probably find some members of his former church in Az who can tell you more. Sanchez and Valverde couldn't even stand each other and were giving each other dirty looks the whole week of the convention one year before Baldemar gave up the President position. They were fighting. Valverde won Sanchez over just the last couple of years.
Solomon got cheated out of being the bishop of AZ many years ago when Baldemar and Viscarra were in. So Solomon threatened them with a lawsuit and instead was moved to Colorado to be bishop. He probably got feed up with this kind of junk and decided enough is enough.
This thing about a prophecy by Arcovio that there would be cleaning of the house by Bro. Sanchez is bologna. Sanchez doesn't even talk to his son-in-law Ed Lopez. What kind of man of God is that?
God help our beloved AA.
We the people are the ones that lose.
What happen to the ballots, tabulation sheets and touch pad results.?
Is there nothing Malverde won't sell?
He got a loan from his church?
Who approved it?
Is he paying it back?
Or did he just send his hench man Rojas his right hand YES man to do the dirty work?
Bishop Sanchez its time to stand up and be man and fix all the errors made.
If you think Malverde will back you up..Your wrong! My opinion is he'll sale you out for 15 pieces of silver.
And Pachueco don't even get me started.
You can run of to Dallas but you can't hide.
I pray you make the only decision that u can...and I think you know which one that is.
Next thing ya know, Valeverde will be selling dates with Missy.
Anything to make a buck.
Who is Rojas?
The next general convention Theme: "Speak Thou....
yes pastors Speak Thou... don't be afraid.
If you speak and not tolerate this present GB then we are going to have Sound Doctrine.
Once upon a time back in the 1970-I have the date somewhere. The church of San Ysidro, pastored by Pastor David Contreras, celebrated
"Valentine's Day." More in the form of "Day of Friendship, for the youth..
Brother Sam Valverde, then youth president of the local church of San Ysidro was taking the youth home in a Van, prabably the church's van., this Iam not sure.
Anyway when Brother Sam arrived at the home of the Contreras, where the young lady Rachel lived, he went to the door to deliver the young lady as he did with all the other young ladies. At this particular house of the Contreras he was approched differently.
"Come on in", a voice said. It was the voice of Pastor David Contereas.. He told Brother Sammy to sit down and when Brother Sammy sat down, The pastor asked, "I would like to ask you what are your intentions with my daughter Rachel?" Brother Sammy was flabergasted, because he was totally shocked, since he already had a "steady girl friend in the church of National City, a city close to San Diego.
"Nothing" said Brother Sammy, we are just friends, and Iam only bringing her home, since this is a Valentine Party for all the youth."
Oh, said the voice,"No you are not going to make a mockery out of my daughter, either you tell me your intentions and they better be favorable, or you will be off the ministry."
So that's the life and the truth about that arrangement..
Brother Sammy comes from a very special family. His mother is a precious lady and his father was truly a very nice man. Brother Sammy has some of the nicest sisters in the World. Good christian and good Aposotlic sisters. Then why this???
What would you have done? Brother Sammy was very very young....This sort of things have been going on in the Third=World countries for centuries, but here in the United States of America, with good civil ethics and especially Christians.
His true girl=friend was devastated, but who was going to defend Brother Sammy? His sweet precious mother? His father had gone home to be with the Lord.
Who? Would you? Could this be why all the anxiety and all the unfullfilled more and more things that do not satisfy? Pray for him.
Do you know the names of the two ministers who voted for Pacheuco?
1- Sanchez
2- Valverde
They scammed the assembly. Someone said "we should not disrespect these men"(paraphrase).
They (Sanchez, Valverde) disrespect not only 600+ ministers who are fasting and casting their votes according to the leading of the Holy Spirit.
But Sanchez & Valverde more importantly disrespect God almighty by putting their vote for Pacheuco when NO AA PASTOR WOULD VOTE FOR PACHEUCO.
Not even the others on the qualifying committee would give their vote for Pachueco
I hear the CBS2 is preparing to do a new report on the GB5 within 30 days.
Also, CBS2 is still reporting the shutter scam of Isaac & his dad Louie Gutierez as of today.
http://www.cbstv2.com/Global/story.asp?S=7122050
Wow. Now that is some insight on Sam the man. San Ysidro and National City have always been interlinked.
Brother Contreras is a good man. He isn't the "preacher" or even "teacher". But he does speak from the heart with Word, and was a excellent administrator. Was he perfect? By no means no. But he had a tremandous impact with the mens home that David Contreras Jr opened.
He gave people a second chance, unlike the ultra-religious GB.
If your story is true, and knowing brother Contreras, it sounds like something he would do, you got to give him credit for looking out for his daughter to hook her up.
Brother Contreras was a good leader who helped the needy and those who couldn't help themselves.
Again, was he perfect, no. But looking back, I would prefer to have Brother Contreras as Bishop President over Sanchez and even ValeVerde.
Brother Contreras was so giving that he gave Sam Vale employment at the Christian Academy. Thats definately a step up from selling oranges door to door, which was his career prior to his "rise" in the ministry.
Think of it. We have as VP a former door to door Fruit Salesman and College Drop Out. I'm sorry, but a bachelors degree from La Puente Bible School/LOGOS is lower than graduating from Bryman or UEI. Even lower than a GED from LA Unified.
Your comment about Contreras are all wrong Bro!
Contreras was arrogant and puffed up. The guy was cocky, bro!
He caused a lot of problems during the time he was bishop here in the southern district. Ask any pastor!
LOL.... I have been off for a few days but I see that the chismosas are still at it.
C'mon- you guys can't be serious with all these Bishop Valverde stories like his "shotgun engagement" to Sis Rachel.
You guys sound like a bunch of bitter old women that have nothing better to do than to try and defame the men of God. Either you guys are young and ignorant or you are middle-aged and the Holy Ghost experience you had back an junior camp isn't enough to keep the fear of God in your hearts.
You speak of "facts" yet have none. Others speak of well "documented proof" and then tell you to "ask anyone" and they will tell you more information. Your partial truths and baseless facts are nauseating.
These men of God that are being defamed have done great things for the Kingdom of God. I dare anyone to say that the things that have done were only for self benefit and not through the annointing of God. Go ahead and blaspheme God by attributing what He has worked through these men to anyone else. Just remember that in so doing, you bring condemnation upon your self.
A Mike
Nope. I am right about Brother Contreras.
This page is full of bitter people. I bet if Jesus himself was Bishop, most of you would be talking down about him.
He has bigger issues to address , as his brother Eliseo in Richmond, Va and what he did in the Rio Grande Valley in Edinburg, TX. in l965. And also what D. Sanchez did to the previous owners of the house he lives in.
You think a 'letter from God" would move him. He has alot of "Senior moments now" Have you seen his wife lately? Poor woman.
Hermano A Mike
Obviously you are related to the GB.
I ask you: "do you think that Sanchez and Valverde voted for Pacheco"?
(shall I answer?) two votes out of 600+ fasting pastors?
Why didn't at least 1 of the 600+ get an impression from God that Pacheco should be on the ticket for General Secretary?
Why Hermano Mike?
(I will answer)Because Hermano Mike they were praying and fasting and God didn't bring Pacheco into their mind.
Got it?
So whose bringing who down?
Are you telling me that not 1 of the pastors (think of all the pastor and honorary bishops who are allowed to vote in the elections)
Not one voted for Pacheco?
This means maybe we should change all the 600+ pastor's because they don't hear from God.
Apparently only Sanchez and Valverde hear directly from God all other pastors are disqualified to be pastors.
Why would anyone want to have a pastor who doesn't hear from God?
Ok A Mike,
You're really starting to sound like a fundamentalist apostolic.
You said, "Go ahead and blaspheme God by attributing what He has worked through these men to anyone else."
If it was God working through these men, the AA wouldn't be in the mess that it's in right now. Furthermore, this is a mess that has been going on for a long long time and finally someone had the spiritual integrity to actually say something.
If you count all the people who have been damaged by just GB members and pastors, the only conclusion one can come up with is that, "this is not of God."
Sorry bro, don't use the "don't blaspheme God" card - the truth is the truth and it will come out regardless of what you label it.
Can someone put in layman words what really happen at Long Beach?
Thanks
Ok, layman terms...
You know that whole "Road Map" initiative? Well lets just say the GB frat boys went off-roading and now they're in big big trouble. They have mud smeared all over their faces and suits, but have that typical teenager "what I did I do?" look.
Now they're bullying everyone and threatening them to keep their mouths shut or else.
Boys will be boys.
1:08 There is nothing wrong with being a fundamentalist believer. The men of God who are "being thrown underneath the train have done great things in God's name. I'm not saying that theya re perfect, however, the majority of the people on her have already judged them as being guilty because of the past things people have "heard" of.
The fact is that no body has the facts. Everything is hearsay. Unfortunatley when peoples emotions get mixed up into things it makes the situation more complicated. Many people have let their emotions trick them into believing biased information because they want the information to be true.
You hear ludicrous stories and defamatory remarks about Pastor Valverde, Pacheco, Sanchez, Rodriguez.....The list goes on.
Don't make a judgement until you have all of the facts. We all know what happens when people assume.
I'm not saying they are innocent as I am not saying they are guilty. If there is a lawsuit- then the results should shed some light on the "facts" involving the elections.
Enough with the tall tales and trying to dig up peoples past. Why do we try to uncover the "sins" (whether truthfull or not) that the blood of Jesus has already covered. Are we without sin?
A Mike
What happend in Long Beach.
Its like if President Bush and Vice President Cheney were to Select the Candidates for the 2008 Presidential Election.
The President asks Congress to form a Committee on Presidential Candidates.
Congress submits a list.
Then the People Vote.
But since none of Bush's and Cheney's candidate Won, Bush Exercises some little known Presidential Decree stating that he has the untimate authority to name the Winners of the election.
Obama's out. Hilary is out. Rudy Gulianni is disqualified, so is Fred Thompson, as well are all the other validly nominated candidates.
Then out of their wisdom, Bush and Cheney Name Jeb Bush(Bush's Brother) as President and Lynn Cheney(Cheney's Daughet) as VP.
Just now apply that to the AA.
Thanks for the answer the only thing I can say now is OH MY GOD!!!
Espinoza=Jeff and Pacheco= Lynn
I wouldn't use Jeb Bush for the analogy, I'd use Pewee Herman. Yes, the board reached out into left field and got a spiritual Pewee Herman who has done lots of bad things.
This is the primary outcry of the lawsuit. From there you have one-offs branching out and start telling tales about other people, and stuff that happened while Martin Luther King Jr. was alive, etc.
The whole matter has to do with fraud and fraud only. It has to be addressed, and resolved.
Open letter to Ismael Martin del Campo
Ismael creaste un monstruo al escribir el CID, no puedo decir si por intruccion de Samuel o fue tu miserable idea, mira en el problema que la iglesia se encuentra en este momento por tu culpa, si todavia te queda una gota de Espiritu Santo, reconoce tu pecado y arrepientete, ademas renuncia por completo a la mesa directiva y al pastorado dentro de la Asamblea Apostolica, ya no hay mas lugar para ti entre nosotros.
Esto que te escribo no es un juego, oh y para que lo sepas no pertenezco al grupo de honor y justicia, he analizado todo lo escrito en AA.info y en este blog y declaro que eres muy culpable de la situacion en que la iglesia se encuentra hoy junto con tus demas amigos.
Que Dios se apiade de tu alma.
Yes, but even in trial, you try to establish the character of the individual.
Just like in politics.
Hermano 3:12. From what I have been told "not sure if this is true" but the CID has been in our assembly for a long time. It was not until recently that it was reinstated as a practice of the AA.
The document as a whole is not bad. It's just the way that it is implimented that can cause some controversy. Example: Why would a person who does not know how to use a computer be selected as the secretary regardless if they had the majority of the votes?
Using the same measuring stick, a person that was qualified that had the majority of the votes should not have been disqualified.
A Mike
I think the biggest controversy is the fact that Bishop Solomon was in a position that he was qualified to do, however, he was not put through by the qualifying board. This raised many questions.
Why was bishop Solomon not pushed through by the qualifying board?
Was it favoritism? Or was he truly not doing the Job that needed to be done? Only Bishop Solomon and the GB know the answer to this question.
If Bishop Solomon was deemed not to qualify for the position then he should have been told by the GB in advance so that he would not have accepted any nominations to retain the position. This would have avoided many issues.
I would never disrespect Bishop Solomon. But maybe he wasn't fulfilling his obligations to the fullest. It must be hard to live in Colorado and have to travel back and forth...not a job I would want...
A Mike
I think that is only half of the big controversy. The other half is how can a man with such a colored past be qualified and appointed to a position with only two votes?
P
L
E
A
S
E
R
E
M
O
V
E
T
H
E
L
I
S
T
O
F
C
I
T
I
E
S
F
R
O
M
Y
O
U
R
B
L
O
G
.
J
U
S
T
B
E
C
A
U
S
E
Y
O
U
W
A
N
T
T
O
S
P
E
A
K
O
U
T
W
I
T
H
O
U
T
T
O
T
A
L
A
N
O
N
Y
M
I
T
Y
T
H
A
T
D
O
E
S
N
O
T
M
E
A
N
E
V
E
R
Y
O
N
E
E
L
S
E
D
O
E
S
.
T
H
A
N
K
Y
O
U
F
O
R
Y
O
U
R
C
O
N
S
I
D
E
R
A
T
I
O
N
I
N
T
H
I
S
M
A
T
T
E
R
.
Why did the chicken cross the street?
To get away from Valverde and Pacheco!
Valerde was trying to sell her something, and Eddie was trying to strong arm her to lay more eggs!
12:54
Sorry I must have read past your post.
LOL...I am not related to Sanchez, Valverde, Pacheco, or anyone else on the board.
"Who voted for Pacheco?"
I don't know. Where the ballots ever made public?
I'm not questioning the votes of 600 Pastors who were fasting and praying. However they did have a group of men that were elected with authority over their 600 votes. Their position was to make sure that the persons voted for could actually perform the duties.
If anything wrong was done, the qualifying board should be held accountable not the men that were approved. As far as I know the GB has opened the general office to any Pastor to ask any question they would like.
A Mike
4:17
You mention someone with a colored past. However do you happen to know the facts of the past incidence? I don't want to hear "my grandmothers cousin from LA heard from a neighbors sister, who is a reliable source because she used to go to the apostolic church and has nothing to gain, that....." Cmon.. Quit all the hearsay.
A Mike
How about an immediate family member? is that close enough? She was ripped off by your buddy - two-vote eddie
At 11PM tonight, I will post the IP addresses of every poster in the last seven days. I have IP addresses that directly ID cities and internet subscribers names. If you want your ID to remain a secret, you must email apostolics2007@hotmail.com by 10PM and promise to not post anymore more comments againts the GB.
I gave resorted to these actions to limit the further damage the AA.
Will you also share the international lottery winnings? and the millions left behind by my long lost relative? and help me validate my eBay/PayPal accounts?
What up A Mike,
You definitely sound like a GB family member.
Pacheco stole from a lot of people including $100K that was never returned to a certain church up north who gave him cash. I many close elderly minister and pastor friends who were present when they would show up with cash only. Suitcases full of $100 dollar bills. Eye witnesses because they lost out on their cars that were not delivered.
One church took out $100K from their funds and lost it all. Then ofcourse you don't believe it Mike because you believe the elections were legit.
Why convince you, when everyone else knows especially those elderly folks who lost the money.
By the way they were always told by Pachue-co to bring cash.
From AA.Info
Saúl L. Ávila
c/o Election Legal Defense Trust Fund
1622 Holly Street
Austin, Texas 78702-5422
512/474-2776
Email: avilaccc@texas.net
Thursday July 26, 2007
Name of contributor
1234 Main Street
Anywhere, USA 80000-1234
111/222-3333
Dear ___________________________:
We greet you in the matchless name of Jesus Christ. We are also praying God’s best upon you and yours.
The Election Legal Defense Trust Fund is currently participating in a fund raising drive. This drive is to offset the legal expenses being absorbed as a result of the civil lawsuit against “the General Board as the governing body of the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus, Inc.”
The centerpiece of this lawsuit is that we the petitioners/consenters are pursuing a new election due to the travesty that was committed upon the pastorate on the day of the General Board Election held on Friday November 24, 2006 in Long Beach, California. We opine that numerous violations were committed by the Qualifying Board; therefore, the results of said election are invalid.
A request in the form of a letter petitioning the present Honorable General Board of the Apostolic Assembly to establish a Commission of Honor and Justice (Article 39 of the Constitution of the Apostolic Assembly) to investigate this travesty was refused. The bishop who wrote the request was advised since there was no wrongdoing; there was no need for an investigation. Immediately thereafter, however, the Honorable General Board convoked a Joint Episcopal Meeting to advise that everything was under control. We are attaching the document that the Honorable General Board responded to the bishop who requested this commission dated May 20, 2007 (please see attached). Subsequent to their response a Letter of Demand from our counsel was sent to the Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus dated May 23, 2007 (please see attached). Through their counsel, they requested an extension and it was granted up to July 10, 2007. During this interim, the Honorable General Board generated a letter dated June 13, 2007 to all the pastorate of the organization in which no doubt you have a copy of this letter stating the predicament they are facing. We have just received a response from their attorney and they have declined our demand. Nonetheless, we proceed. This is where we are at. Save a miracle, we will have to settle this in a court of law.
We regret not being at liberty to divulge more details as this case is now in the hands of our counsel. If this case goes before a court of law, the information at that time will become public. For now, rest assured that we the petitioners/consenters seek that justice prevail and that damaging impressions be corrected. Furthermore, we realize that there will be some collateral damage done. We pray that these actions result in minimal damage than what has already transpired. There are no personal agendas other than justice is served to our beloved fellowship. Our pledge is to pursue this to its finality- justice.
We are seeking your help. All it requires is for you to send a financial contribution to this worthy cause. Please send your contribution in the form of a check, money order, cashier’s check to: Saúl L. Ávila c/o Election Legal Defense Trust Fund 1622 Holly Street Austin, Texas 78702-5422. If you choose to direct deposit, please advice as our facilitator Saúl L. Ávila is charged to send a receipt of your contribution and will do so regardless if you choose sending your contribution to him directly. Please note that this contribution is not tax-deductible and strictly a voluntary endeavor. Please DO NOT SEND CASH! To direct deposit: Bank of America Routing Number- 111000025 Account Number- 5860 0085 8666
Your contribution is greatly appreciated. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to call us. Thank you very much and God bless!
Sincerely,
Saúl L. Ávila
Secretary
Petitioners:
Bishop Daniel Salomón 303/249-0942; Bishop Baldemar Rodríguez 909/957-9175; Bishop Abel V. Torres 423/352-3958
Consenters:
Bishop Ishmael C. Arellano; Bishop Daniel Jauhall; Bishop Richard Galaviz; Bishop Isaac H. Cota; Bishop Samuel C. Arellano; Bishop Guillermo M. Mendoza; Bishop Martín M. Vásquez; Pastor Efraín Andrade; Pastor Saúl L. Ávila 512/731-9660
The qualifying committee would sound more ethical if they had said "Hermano Solomon, we would like to ask you to give up your church in Colorado and move to SoCal. Otherwise, we will not be qualify you to serve as the Gen. Sec."
That would be ethical. But to put someone in that has a shady past, did not even get 1 single vote by a pastor, other than the 2 perpertrators that thought up this skeem (Sanchez and Valverde). Give me a break?
Let just say for argument sake that Solomon decides he doesn't want to give up his church and move to SoCal. At least now the pastor can reconsider someone else. I am sure that the last person on their mind was Pachewe-co.
This was an opportunity for Sanchez and Valverde to put in their people.
Sanchez-puts espinosa & Leobardo Maffey(yes man)
Valverde-puts pacheco, aguilar, del campo
Prado plays both sides.
By the way if Solomon stays he probably rises to president before Valverde.
Why?
From what I hear the pastors of the AA are concerned about valverde's manipulation of things like his uncle efrain. They work exactly the same.
One year valverde is friends with tafoya, then after he uses him he dumps him. He goes on to the next bishop makes friends and then goes to the next friend. Each time trying to conquer their friendship. Each time using them.
Anonymous:
Regarding your post about posting our IP addresses, don't waste your time, here's my ip address:
216.109.112.135
Unless you're the FBI with a SEARCH WARRANT, no one can retrieve any personal information associated with this ip address. You would have to contact the ISP for this IP, and provide a court order, a warrant and be an authorized official - then they MIGHT give you the user's name of this IP. But if you're a joe-shmoe, they're just going to hang up on you for being an idiot.
A los Obispos Baldemar Rodríguez, Daniel Solomon, Juan Fortino, Daniel Jauhall, Ismael Arellano, Arturo Tafoya, Juan Hernández, Julian Aguirre y Alejandro Galarza:
Paz de Cristo:
Esteemed Brethren,
I am writing this letter for the purpose of making known to you what occurred at the elections this past General Convention which was held in Long Beach, California on the 24th of November 2006.
You may remember that I had the opportunity to be a member of the Electoral Commission at aforementioned convention. I accepted with the honor of being selected for such an important task, but I never expected to witness what happened at that event. When the elections came to a conclusion, I felt great sadness and disillusion due to what I had just seen occur.
I shall begin by saying that when the pastoral body voted for someone to occupy the positions of President and Vice-President, everything went well. Those who were elected to those two positions received enough votes to become elected automatically. I trust the Qualifying Commission approved them because they may have abided by what the Constitution and the CID document “Capacidad, Idoneidad y Derecho” stipulate concerning elections. From that point on, I was unable to determine which Constitution or other Document was employed by the Qualifying Board as the elections continued. The sad truth is that many injustices were committed regarding several brethren who received a sufficient amount of votes to become candidates for various positions, but they were disqualified by the Qualifying Board for unknown reasons.
We, the electoral commission, counted the votes and then we sent the tabulation sheets with the results to the Qualifying Board. To our surprise and amazement, when the candidates were introduced by the President of the Elections, it was shocking to hear the names of people who had not received enough votes to qualify as candidates. We, the Electoral Commission members, just looked at each other in amazement as we heard the names of the candidates called out. We could hardly believe what was going on before our own eyes. For a moment there, we thought we had entered the wrong auditorium and that perhaps the results that we had provided the Qualifying Board were being presented in another auditorium altogether.
In my opinion, the first injustice at the elections was committed when we voted for the position of the General Secretary. Brother Daniel Solomon received the majority of the votes, but to our surprise, the President of the Elections announced that the candidates were Eduardo Pacheco, I believe it was also Joel Montes, and Lupe Zuñiga. Brother Pacheco only received 2 votes as did Brother Lupe Zúñiga. If I remember correctly, Brother Joel Montes received 3 or 4 votes. I find it very difficult to understand why Brother Daniel Solomon was disqualified when he had been a member of the outgoing General Board. I have problems understanding why he was so suddenly disqualified. I consider such actions as unjust due to the fact that he was never asked to resign while he occupied the position of General Secretary, nor was it ever explained to why he did not qualify to be a candidate. Section 1 of Article 39 states: “The President Bishop, upon his election and to be confirmed to his position, shall swear to fulfill the bylaws established in the present Constitution, and with zeal see that all its duties be obeyed and its rights exercised justly, requiring from the other members of the Board of Directors and district bishops the fulfillment of all their prescribed duties.” There is no doubt whatsoever that justice was amiss in the elections. If justice is not upheld, how can it be required of others to fulfill their duties?
Another injustice was committed when we voted for the position of Secretary of Foreign Missions. Brother Juan Fortino received more votes than anybody else, but he was disqualified as well. From that point on, the Qualifying Board approved candidates that received a minimal number of votes. Several ministers received enough votes to become candidates, but they were mysteriously disqualified. One member of the Electoral Committee made the comment, “I am afraid to receive one vote, because then I will qualify as candidate for a position.” Sad to say, the elections turned into a game and a mockery of the participation of the Pastors in the elections. The first round of votes for each of the last six positions was completely ignored by the Qualifying Board. If the elections are for the sole purpose of placing friends and family in administrative positions, then why waste the Pastors’ time by holding elections? Why are we required to attend conventions where we approve amendments to a Constitution which is not respected and complied with?
When the so-called elections concluded, I returned to my hotel room with no desire whatsoever to return to the evening service where the new General Board was going to be presented. I had a terrible headache as a result of the fiasco I had just witnessed at the elections. I ask myself the following: Why were the brothers disqualified? Was it an act of vengeance? I still can’t understand why President Daniel Sanchez chose me to be a member of the Electoral Committee if he very well knew that I would not be afraid to express my opinion if something wasn’t done right. Now I absolutely cannot participate in covering up or ignoring the injustice that has been committed.
I end this letter by saying that my heart is heavy because of all that has occurred. Great damage has been wrought upon our Church.
Sincerely,
*Abel V. Torres
*Signature on file:
**Permission granted by author for proof:
6:36
You say a close family member was ripped off. Since this is a "close" family member you would know whether or not she spoke to pastor Pacheco or to his immediate supervisor right? Did she press charges?
A Mike
Ahhhhh poor Sammy couldn't be with his real true love.
Even back then he sold her out for a pot of veninson.
Will Sammy's old girl friend please stand up, and fill us in!
Alright, alright, bad joke. Just kidding about posting IP addresses.
I was bored and it was a cheap laugh.
Please stop emailing me.
As I stated before, unless the an individual had access to very elaborate tracking software and a warrant, there is no way to track who comments.
Please stop emailing me.
Alright, alright, bad joke. Just kidding about posting IP addresses.
I was bored and it was a cheap laugh.
Please stop emailing me.
As I stated before, unless the an individual had access to very elaborate tracking software and a warrant, there is no way to track who comments.
Please stop emailing me.
7:25 I'm, not a family member. You should believe me since you believe everything that is written here...lol
I never said the elections were legit. if you read my posts, it's clear that I choose not to condemn people nor defame their characters with partial information. I will wait and let the truth manifest itself.
Suitcases full of money huh? It sounds like this was a mob operation. Maybe there was an impersonator....
my question to everyone on here that continues to say they know people that know people that heard from some people that there was a fraud committed maliciously by the mastermind Pacheco:
Why was this not taken up with his immediate supervisor at the time and the money restored by the GB of the time. I'm sure there had to be an investigation into the matter. Where are those documents?
This org has operated on paper napkins and back of the platform deals for years, so the only historical record is slowing fading in the memories of those that witnessed or were victims of past admins.
Is there any other blogs on this issue?
Alert Alert!!!
The lawsuit process is upon us now,
the Petitioners are finally moving forward we are living now in a historic moment.
Lets us pray for both sides so they make the right decisions.
I believed the released of the legal defense fund letter is the proof.
Can somebody elaborate?
One of the consenters of the lawsuit actually did terrible damage to my family and I. I'm glad to see he's actually standing up for something right this time.
In a weird, twisted way, I'm gaining back my respect for him.
About the Pacheuco scam deal, thier was one UPC lady that went to jail. I was told that the mob was involved and that Pacheuco said he didn't realize they were involved.
Either way, he looked bad.
If this thing goes to court, Pacheuco's past about this pyramid is going to come out!
CID was applied to Solomon but not Pacheuco. Can you imagine when they start the discovery process and ask Pacheuco about his past. This will all come out in cross-examination. It will be fair game because they need to see why Solomon is out and the replacement is soooo ethical, without a spot or blemish!
The problem I am having with this lawsuit is that the AA has deep pockets. Yes they do hermanos. Their attorney's are on retainer.
The Baldemar group will have to pay out of their own pockets what will probably be about a $300,000.00 case.
That is actually what the AA attorney's are hoping will stop this from going forward any further. A tactic often used by defense counsel(been there done that).
Also, this case has to really be filed in San Bernardino county. No two ways about that (trust me). The AA is a California corporation and is headquartered in SB county.
Why did the Plaintiff's (Baldemar and Co.) get Texas attorney's?
That is bad...bad...bad...
You can't have Texas attorneys flying back and forth to California taking depositions, doing discovery, filing motions, and trying this case if they are based out of Texas.
Defense counsel knows this and is not taking the Plaintiff's seriously.
Although I understand that the Plaintiff's counsel may have offices in Southern California and is a very prestigious law firm.
Anyway...truthfully I kind of feel sorry for the plaintiff's in this case...they are deep...unless ofcourse someone gives them a large donation. If I had 10 million dollars I would share about $500,000 for them but since I don't, I will have to say sorry.
May God help you with this because you have a lot to lose.
In addition, in the state of California there is 998 stipulation that says if you lose the case, you have to repay the attorney fees of the other party.
This is a way to force both sides to come to an agreement short of a trial.
Many times attorneys on both sides will play "chicken", knowing that if the other side loses they will pay the whole amount of the attorney fees on top of any damages.
As far as the criminal aspect of this...the attorney general, the secretary of state, the california franchise tax board and IRS?
They will await until the civil part of the case is resolved...as the facts are coming out about how the election was run...they will begin to become involved. They are not currently interested in this case, but are on notice...it will take the filing of the lawsuit and some the incriminating facts of the election and the boards methods,etc... before they will start formal investigations.
That is when people would begin being hauled away to jail. Probably Sanchez and Valverde. But that is a long ways off right now because the lawsuit on the plaintiff's part seems very unlikely.
Valverde needs the money he gets from the AA because it helps him pay for his renta.
The church pays him close to $10K a month and he gets another $6K from the AA. In addition, all GB have Amex cards paid by the AA.
How else is Valverde going to pay for the condo in baja cali. Yes it is true folks.
I can't wait until the IRS becomes involved and audits them to see how they spend our money.
I heard from a former HQ employee who knows first hand that they pay pastor's widows about $100 a month and there is about 75 on the list.
Does anyone know anything about this?
my mum/(widow) receives a mo.ck from the aa for the amt of $50.00
The amount is $50 a month. I know firsthand. Even that is hard to get a hold of.
Women are placed very very low in the AA social and spiritual ladder. I'm not at all surprised pastor's widows only get $50.
I remember my grandma's pastor yelling at his wife to move out of the way because there were people waiting behind her. And she had just gotten surgery. He was very disrespectful to her.
I vowed never to become Apostolic even though most of my family is. I find myself being more content and lessed stressed than they. Apos seem to have too much drama going on in their churches all the time.
How in the world does anyone with just 2 votes out of 600 win an election unless strings were pulled.
Many also know that the whole thing was planned ahead of time.
Why all the Valverde bashing?
Because he is the mastermind of this election mess.
The Lawsuit is scheduled to be filed the week of October 22nd. And in response to Anonymous "Oct. 10, 10:48 pm" Their legal counsel IS from California, and have participated in some very HIGH PROFILE cases in the state.
I want to write this letter to "A Mike." I am a former Apostolic. I say former because after I saw (witnessed, experienced) what they did to my previous pastor, I NO LONGER WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN THE AA ORGANIZATION! Sam Valverde personally purpsued this pastor, disfellowshiped him from the AA because he would not deed over the churches properties to the AA. This is done according to the Constitution. The problem, however, is that there are other pastors (Valverde's buddies) that had their properties incorporated the same way, and NOTHING was ever done to them,TO THIS DAY! Is this hear say, you may ask? NO! I was the former secretary for that church, and personally read the letters persecuting, and defaming this pastor. Since then, after personally experiencing the ugly politica and politicians of the AA I decided NOT to go to church anymore! Is that close enough for you A Mike?
We've been hearing about this for the last couple of months. I would not put any merit in the lawsuit.
At this point it may be just to save face. There was a story in the news a while back about a lady sued KMart over a tax that was charged her for less than $.50.
A filed lawsuit does not mean anything. It is just a waste of our time.
I wonder if they ever thought the assembly would counter sue them and seek legal reimbursement. It is coming.
All of a sudden the plaintiff becomes the defendant and then the dirty laundry is really going to fly.
Who was your pastor?
So what is this about valverde buying some condo in baja or mexico somewhere?
Does anyone know anything further about this?
Well let me tell you up to this day Valverde has all of the monies
from the sell of Fontanas building something that is unconstitutional, the property on Citrus belongs to him not to AA.
He doesnt care to split from AA. Pay closed attention this guy is moving out of AA with millions of dollars and with lots of ex-good members from other AA churches. He is out of control.
I know first hand valverde lies with a straight face.
He back stabbed his own brother-in-law who use to pastor in redlands. Does any remember his name. The guy with the glasses and was married to rachel valverde's sister.
How about eric rangel? I heard valverde backstabbed him too!
Sanchez announce that he is been intimidated by Valverde
I heard through high level federal sources involved in fraud that there is another bishop that bought property at the same time as valverde in mexico. it only appears to be vacation type property but the source said he was having a hard time finding out who the other bishop was because the file is on his supvervisor's desk.
He is trying to find out more.
for anonymous 11:58am
Can you clarify or elaborate on the intimidation of sancheez by val?
You clearly have inside info!
"The Lawsuit is scheduled to be filed the week of October 22nd."
May I suggest to make this a national day of fast and prayer.
Hes been playing psychological games with Dan on his education level, leadership, decisions, management, etc
are you bishops sure you want to proceed with this lawsuit as you state?
You have everything to lose?
1-It will cost you a lot of $$ out of your own pocket. Unlike the AA you have to pay out of your own handbill.
2-If you lose...you are completely and permanently outside the AA.
3-If you lose...not only will you have lost the money you spent...about $300k by someones estimate in this blog...but also pay for the AA's defense cost probably $300k
4-If you lose you will have brought out everyone's dirty laundry.
---------------------------------
LET'S START OVER AGAIN WITH
"IF YOU WIN"
1-You will be charging the AA a lot of money for your expense of litigating this case($300K) by someones estimate...I say around $200k but what is the difference?
2-Sanchez & Valverde will both be out.
3-Superior court for SB county has an injunction againsst the AA to proceed with a elections by the pastor's of the AA whether the AA constitution allows for it or not. A third party is ordered to oversee the elections to make sure they are fair and equitable (Jimmy Carter) :)
4-Punitive damages may imposed on both sanchez and valverde. Punitive states that they cannot have the AA or their own personal or professional liability insurance pay for it. They would have to pay for "punitive" damages out of their own funds(court will over that this is clear).
5-The IRS, Cal Tax franchise board, Secretary of State of California and attorney general opens up their investigation into this matter as they now have depositions and testimonies of parties of the facts of t elections.
6-Prison time for Sanchez and Valverde probably only will have to serve 6 months unless their is a lot of publicity then this could end up in a 5-10 year sentence.
7-There will be bad feelings on all parties the Repulicans and the Democrats. There will probably be a split but whoever remains in office at the AA will definitely have the upper hand.
EITHER, WAY EVERYONE HAS ALREADY LOST!
This is a bad situation. I am not sure if it was a good idea to challenge the status quo.
But if there was ever a chance to bust this election thing going on for all these generations...it is definitely NOW!!
This looks like an awefully good case for the plaintiff's.
BUT DO THEY HAVE THE MONEY AND RESOLVE TO DO THIS OR IS IT A BLUFF?
THEY NEED $$$, LOT'S OF IT HERMANOS!
MY GUESS IS THAT THEY CAN'T SUSTAIN THIS FOR THE LONG HAUL!
4-If you lose...you may have to pay
10/10 11:48
"About the Pacheuco scam deal, thier was one UPC lady that went to jail. I was told that the mob was involved and that Pacheuco said he didn't realize they were involved. Either way, he looked bad."
This is what I mean. Pacheco was not the mastermind behinf the car deal. He did not go inot the deal with malicious intent. Infact, there are others that are not even mentioned (that don't need to be mentioned)in the happenings that were aware of all of the details and gave their blessing for the deal to take place.
Looking bad and being Guilty are two different things. The real perpetrator was sentenced to jail.
Tell me you have never done anything to make yourself look bad? I have. I'm just glad that when God forgives, He does not throw your errors back in your face.
A mike
Valverde bashers
Everytime someone is blessed by God, you will always have the devil using his minions and some of the "brothers" of the church to attempt to bring them down. Why do we do this to the body of christ? We do this not only in this case with Valverde but with anyone that has more $ blessings than we do?
So what if he owns a home in Baja. Each Pastors salary is decided by the pastoral body of each church according to their membership. More membership means more work.
He happens to have a large congregation. Is it because he's a fraud or because God is working through him to touch the lives of others?
It has also been said that the church is the only army that shoots it's wounded in the back (paraphrasing. This applies to all the band wagoners that jump on at the first scent of blood to do as much harm as possible.
For what reason? I don't know. Maybe jealousy, envy, bitterness? You tell me,
A Mike
A Mike how much are they paying you? I know you congregate in Corona. You want me to put your name?
A Mike
Your moral compass is so messed up, you don't even realize where your logic leads you. I'm sorry you can't think that far ahead, I suggest you expose yourself to real leaders who can hand hold you and reveal to you the future consequences of your present actions.
To A Mike,
Lets set aside the condo in Baja, the large house, and even the salary. We'll overlook the conflict of interest with the AA loans and even the lock FOT has had on the National tape ministry as long as Sam has been a GB member. While we're at it, we won't discuss the good ol' boys that are allowed to keep properties in their own names while he looks the other way.
Just one thing - Where is the anointing in preaching other people's messages? Sam is a great orator. He uses other people to get what he wants - and that's how he intends to become president.
A mike
Two vote-eddie - I'm not sure what is worse 1) scamming all of the people and then running away to Chile avoid prosecution or 2) Claiming to be an innocent party because 'some UPC member was the mastermind'.
To my knowledge, he has never 'manned up' and accepted any responsibility for his actions. He'll say the same thing with the election fraud - 'It wasn't me it was Sanchez'.
How long will we allow this fraud to continue in ministry? The clock is ticking
Is everything you say about Valverde from first hand knowledge? It is all based from facts right? I don't know- that's why I'm asking.
"Just one thing - Where is the anointing in preaching other people's messages?"
Who's message is it? Is it not God's words. There is no such thing as new revelation in the Bible. I have heard many people preach on the exact same message in the different churches that I have visited throughout the years. It is through the repetition of the word that we are able to call things into remembrance.
Cmon Bro. no one can take credit for what was already in the Bible. sure people can throw in some insightful twists to what is being said but the bottom line is: It's God's word!
A Mike
We are not talking about revelation we are talking about inspiration.
1:27
You sound like this cat I know by the initials of H.P.
Lol...he ran away to Chile...LOL
Bro. Pacheco has done more for Chile than any other man sent out there. Ask any one of the Pastors out there who were the most influential men that through God's annointing helped in the growth of the church, not only in Chile but in all of South America. I guarantee that Pacheco will be one of the top names that is mentioned.
Oh...wait...but that wasn't of God right?
Bro. when you are part of a licensed corporation, the employee doesn't get punished by the outside- the corporation on the other hand does. The employee then can be fired by the corporation.
Did the GB of the time ever "man up?"
You keep trying to pint the finger to one individual without true knowledge of what really happened and who was involved.
A Mike
True, many people preach similar messages. Many read the word and God inspires them to preach.
Some (Sam and Eddie included) listen to the preaching tapes and parrot the messages.
Pull up a good set of Mark Hanby tapes and compare it to the tapes being sold by Sam's crew. Look at some of 'Sam's' writings and compare with Larry Leah (Prayer). You will find - first hand - that the similarity is uncanny.
They are not the only ones to do this. We have Richard 'Rod Parsely' Maffey, David Jimenez, Luciano 'read my plagiarized books' Montes.
Ask your pastor who's messages he preaches. or better yet, listen to Mark Hanby and you'll probably hear your two vote pastor preach the same messages
Is each preacher inspired by a different Spirit of God?
A Mike
God will use a mule if he has to. I guarantee you if you were to go to Chile, you would have to search long and hard to find a Pastor to confirm what you said. If you go to Chile, and ask who was most influential, the AA would probably never be mentioned. Even harder if you expand to South America.
Now that you mention Luciano Montes why he still around?
Going as a delegate to conventions after what he did to that poor child at the General office.
One thing is to be inspired by the Holy Spirit an another different thing is to be inspired by a book or tape my friend
Now that's more to the point. There is One God - Jesus that inspires from His word.
There are other gods (money, power, fame) that inspire as well.
Where would you place a man that hears the inspired message preached then decides to re-preach it? '. . . We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth . . .' (Acts 19:13-15)
An about Chile the man there is Marrufo not Pacheco.
Are you really naive enough to think that Mark Hanby, Larry Leah, and Rod Parsley originated certain messages. Cmon, Bro. I have heard messages from all of the above mentioned preachers that sounded exactly like something I have heard from other preachers before their time.
Their sermons must be copyrighted right?
It's the same messages with the Preachers own personal twist.
Why are people so anxious to hear a new revelation or hear someone with the inspiration from another spirit to preach something they have never heard before.
The fact is that the word of God has been repeated time after time and we still don't obey it whole heartidly. Why should there be new preachings if we dont obey the words that have already been spoken?
A Mike
Maybe they originated and maybe they didn't, but they didn't take from someone else efforts and publish them as their own.
Just curious - Does two vote teach you to do your 'research' by listening to other messages? Does he tell all of his other deacons/ministers to leave the Hanby messages for himself?
What happened A Mike?
Cat got your fingers?
Or did two-vote tell you not to answer that last one? Must be rough being a deacon in Corona.
Were you recruited? or did you get there by accident?
2:08
Bro. you have issues. I don't know what Pacheco teaches his Ministers and Deacons.
Nothing in the Bible can be viewed as somones own personal thought.
Give me an example of anything that was published that is plagarized, stolen, or whatever you want to call it.
Please Bro. don't you think that any publisher would make sure that the writtings they were publishing weren't copyrighted by someone else. Why are we even having this conversation.
A Mike
"Cat got your fingers?" At work.
Devil got your tongue?
A Mike
Devil got your tongue?
Must be.
I missed your answer on this one:
Where would you place a man that hears the inspired message preached then decides to re-preach it? '. . . We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth . . .' (Acts 19:13-15)
There's a new name for Sam - Sceva Sam!
Whoa!! Anonymous-1:12 PM just used my words from another post! Please don't do that, write your own stuff!
I can't believe you used this from another post and directed it to A Mike:
"Your moral compass is so messed up, you don't even realize where your logic leads you. I'm sorry you can't think that far ahead, I suggest you expose yourself to real leaders who can hand hold you and reveal to you the future consequences of your present actions."
That must be Sam
"Where would you place a man that hears the inspired message preached then decides to re-preach it? '. . . We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth . . .' (Acts 19:13-15)"
Did Paul preach his own words or were they Christs? Do not all the Gospels give the same account for the life of Christ using different words and are they questioned? Aren't there many people in thBible who reiterate the same message?
I find your use of the scriptures distasteful. You don't have to like Valverde, but you criticize him as if you are better than him. I can see the fruit that he bears, and you are showing me yours (seedless).
What have you done for God?
Bro. Be careful on how you use God's word because that same word will one day judge you!
A Mike
A Mike,
There is a difference between a pastor actually reading the Bible and getting his inspired messages that way, and a pastor who pops in a TD Jakes dvd and starts taking notes.
Silence of the Lambs, Woman thou Art Loose, those are TD Jakes messages that Valverde used to preach all over the place and never once did he mention or give credit to the source.
Yeah yeah, you can say the source is ultimately God, but TD Jakes was the one who sat down and fasted, prayed and became divinely inspired. Sam Valverde, all he did was grab a bag of chips, popped in TD Jakes into his dvd player, started taking notes and wala, there he was on Sunday talking about "what the Lord showed me."
2:42...LOL....It's probably the same one that is complaining the Pastor Valverde is stealing other peoples messages....LOL....
A Mike
Sooo whaaat!
We do own property in mexico!
Who cares? It's a time share that we own.
And yes we enjoy family time together with a certain bishop and his family.
Tim V.
The Gospels? Are you serious? You would equate a firsthand account of and experience with Jesus to Sam preaching a message God inspired someone else to preach?
It is you my bro. that is treading on dangerous ground.
Yes several people in the scriptures recounted the same event(s) but ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God.
You are correct. I have done nothing. God however has done much through me. I am but a vessel.
I've never said I'm better than Sam, but I am not a plagiarist.
What have you done?
2:59
I'm amazed that you actually know for a fact that Pastor Sam doesn't read his Bible. Wow, you must be very spiritual yourself to have this reveale to you.
A Mike
T.D Jakes original - please!
He gets it from Mark Hanby, Hanby got it from O.R. Fauss, The UPC gets it from the Baptist, the Apostolics get it from UPC, the Baptist get it from Assembly of God, Assembly of God get from PAW, ELim gets it from Apostolics, around and around it goes.
- Edmund Dyess said it best, "There is nothing new unde the Sun" -
Get over it. IF it doesn't help you, it helped somebody.
A Mike,
Are you just playing Devil's Advocate? or are you really endorsing Sceva-Sam & Two-vote Eddie?
Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
3:10
I never said you were better than pastor Sam. I said you critisize him as if you were.
Cmon bro. In some way shape or form you have repeated an idea or a concept you heard from someone else either verbally or in writting without giving credit to the source. It's inevitable if you went to highschool...LOL...
I would agree if you told me that someone wrote a story with specific details...and then someone else comes and just changes the names of characters or places and shares the same identical story.
However, Is it possible to plagarize any idea that comes from the word of God?
A Mike
3:25
I advocate for those who are wrongfully acussed without indefinite facts on any side of the debate. People have to stop making judgement call on possible situation or scenarios. Until I can tell without a shadow of doubt that the allegations are true or false, I will keep my mouth closed.
I do find myself defending the present GB alot because there are so many ignorant people that have already made up their minds with what someone heard, or becasue they read a letter writen by one side of controversy.
Time will tell.
A Mike
A Mike,
I never said Valverde never reads the Bible. I only said he has a bad habit of using other people's material verbatim , ie. sermons, literature, etc, as though he was the one divinely inspired. He has the gall to actually use the same titles too. He never ever quotes the source whatsoever, this is unethical and not becoming of a pastor.
This is why the AA is not mainstream, because it's leaders are unoriginal and can never come up with their own material. And when they do, it has to do with why apostolics do not wear jewelery or cut their hair. It's sad to see that the AA has contributed very little to Christianity as a whole.
And President Clinton never commited fornication/adultry with Monica Lewinski. Right?
It's all in the way you look at it. Afterall it was just a cigar
Of course Bill Clinton didn't have relations with her. He must've had a document called the CID that allowed the CID to prevail over common sense.
School must be out because there are some ignorant remarks being posted. Don't you guys have some homework do do or something?
A Mike
A Mike, did you ever answer "Anonimous Oct. 11, 10:29 am?" It seems when a first hand witness discloses a FACT you ignore it!
Regarding sam pursuing a pastor 10:29 a.m.?
Yes he did to that pastor you mention and I can vouch for it.
But there are other pastors.
sam is cut-throat!
Okay already!
I concede Sam has done a some things that might not look good to others. You don't have all of the facts.
Come back with all of the facts and then ask the question. Until then leave him alone!
A Mike
Yes hermano mike a i will leave sam alone as you request
A Mike, REEEAAAADDDDD "Anonimous Oct. 11, 10:29 am?" What do you mean I DON'T HAVE ALL THE FACTS! I saw the letters Valverde sent the church. See this is why I won't come back to church, too many A Mikes ignoring the truth. I'd rather stand before God and say I DID IT, than to stand before Him and say, I DIDN'T KNOW!"
Bro. Just because Sceva Sam did bad things to the Pastor, remember Sam is just a man like you or I. Your relationship is with God.
Go back to church - even if it is another of like faith. Don't let Sam's deplorable actions send you to hell!
Mike a you have to admit sam is arrogant!
oops!
Bro. Don't stay away from church just because Sceva Sam did bad things to the Pastor. Remember Sam is just a man like you or I. Your relationship is with God.
4:10 I am not conceding anything. Pastor Sam is far from being perfect as we all are. And please use your own identifier when you post. all comments are anonymous anyways.
A Mike
Sam ignores people who he doesn't like. Even if they were previously his friends.
Like this southern Calif sister who use to be on the board with him and later said that sam would act like he didn't even know her.
Arrogant my brother Mike A.
You sound like a certain bro. from corona. Are you him Mike a.
Yes, I am from corona.
Mike A
It really saddens me to read all that you people say in this blog. Do any of you actually know Pastor Sam Valverde? I do. Has he ever hurt any one of you? He is a great man of God and is greatly used by Him. Yes, we have a large church, yes he has a big house, and?? Have you witnessed hundreds of souls crying at the altar after being touched by God through a message that Pastor Sam preached? I have. Have you been touched by the Word of God spoken through Pastor Valverde? I have. I'm sure that most of you that say these horrible things about the men of God don't even know them. I'm sure you don't KNOW anything aside from what you "hear". I am thankful for God's mercy and grace and I pray it upon each and every one of you. I don't know what they teach at your church, but at FTC, we're tought not to judge and not to speak evil against the men of God. Is Pastor Sam perfect? No. Are you?
"A Mike, did you ever answer "Anonimous Oct. 11, 10:29 am?" It seems when a first hand witness discloses a FACT you ignore it!"
Sorry- I missed it. Regardless, all anonymous posts including mine are all hearsay. They have no merit because they lack ownership. A Mike
To: October 11th 4:35 pm
Yes we know sam valverde very well, probably better than you do.
A lot of the blogs with details are first hand.
I concede that some may not be but it probably is about 15% inaccurate and about 85% accurate.
A Mike, reading the blogs of people like you, motivates me to remain away from church. From people who ignore the facts. It's kind of like the catholic church, ignoring for many years the sexual abuse perpetrade by so many priests. I would NEVER want to be a part of someone who stands by and allows so many injustices to be perpetrated. I AM A CASUALTY of the dirty politics of Sam Valverde. I hope he preaches that at your church someday!
The GB5 and the dad have a history up north.
If you are a member of Union City you know not to do business with them.
TO: Mike A
sam did a lot of people wrong.
do you want me to name names?
Sam did a lot of people wrong?
Is he related to Eddie Pacheco?
Oh, wait, He is!
Must be a family thing.
La Familia
To: Mike A
Do you want me to name Names?
Are you there Mike A?
To Mike A:
I will check back in an hour to see if you want me to give names.
out
REGARDING THE LAWSUIT:
I just wonder if anyone has read the following scriptures...
1 Co 1:10,11
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1 Co 6:1 …,
Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong?
why do ye not rather [SUFFER YOURSELVES to] be defrauded?
Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that [your] brethren.
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived...
The Bible has an official stand on this matter. Regarding those pursuing a lawsuit... their actions speak volumes about their heart's condition and motives. They arbitrarily select which portions of scripture they choose to obey and which portions they choose to close one eye to...
In my opinion, that puts them in a worse position than those whom they are trying to bring charges against. There might have been irregularities during the elections, but the constitution has NEVER been followed to a tee in any of the previous elections. Most constituents had never read the electoral process as defined in the constitution, much less understood it to the point of following it with any precision. Therefore, anything you might have to say against the current governing body is probably just as well applicable to all the previous administrations. The only difference is that now someone decided to read what was written and look for “irregularities” to satisfy their motives, and in the process, created havoc within the body of Christ. Sad. It is a sad day when you have to go against the written word of God to get your -justice-.
The only reason for a name to be named is if it's yours. Otherwise it's all the same hearsay and gossip...
Did Luciano Montes get away wityh what he did at the GB offices.
I ask why?
Is that why Becky is the Pastor in Indio now?
$100,000 from one church alone, and Pacheco is not behinds bars.
Oh I'm sorry I forgot he didn't know he was doing wrong.other man sent out there................. Ask any one of the Pastors out there who were the most influential men that through God's annointing helped in the growth of the church, not only in Chile but in all of South America....LOL
come on behind Hugo Chavez and that other guy from Peru Sakamoco
The GB5 While daddy was preaching in southern CA he was suppose be at work up north. Now I've heard he forced someone to clock him in til the boss found out.
What a Great Pastor he will be.
To: 5:17 pm
You sound like a typical AA theologian. You don't understand what Paul is saying so I will break it down.
CHAPTER VI.
1. Dare. “The insulted majesty of Christians is denoted by a grand word” (Bengel).
2. Matters (κριτηρίων). The word means, 1, The instrument or rule of judging; 2, the tribunal of a judge. It occurs only here, ver. 4, and Jas. 2:6, where it means judgment-seats.
This latter gives a good sense here without having recourse to the meaning suit or case, which lacks warrant. So Rev., in margin, “are ye unworthy of the smallest tribunals?” That is, are ye unworthy of holding or passing judgment in such inferior courts?
3. How much more (μήτιγε). It is hard to render the word accurately. How much more follows the Vulgate quanto nagis. It is rather, not to speak of; or to say nothing at all of.
Things that pertain to this life (βιωτικά). See on Luke 21:34.
4. Judgments (κριτήρια). Better, tribunals or courts, as ver. 2. If you have to hold courts for the settlement of private matters.
Set (καθίζετε). Seat them as judges on the tribunal. It is disputed whether καθίζετε is to be taken as imperative, set (A. V.), or as interrogative, do ye set (Rev.).* The A. V. seems, on the whole, preferable. The passage is well para-phrased by Farrar. “Dare they, the destined judges of the world and of angels, go to law about mere earthly trifles, and that before the heathen? Why did they not rather set up the very humblest members of the Church to act as judges in such matters?”
-----------------------------------
The Apostle is saying don't sue your brother just because the election was a fraud first go to them (AA) and they (AA) should be christian enough to allow the least of the members of the AA to judge this matter, because the least will some day judge not only with Christ but will judge over angels.
It appears that the AA did not except this because no independent committee has been allowed. Put some obsure pastor on an investigative committee to review this electoral matter.
Are you telling me that if a brother molests a child, just because he is a brother he should not be sued?
Just Sanchez and Valverde will face jail time.
What about the rest of the QC....
Like Felipe Gaxiola he is just as guilty as the rest
Jail time? Come on guys, do you really think they'll get jail time? I don't think the court system will go as far as putting them in jail.
Worst case scenario, probation. Then the GB will repent, the plaintiffs will forgive, they'll hug and cry in front of everyone at convention.
8 years down the road, another scandal. Why? Because the leadership in the AA is too reactive and not proactive enough.
To: 7:34 PM
You know I wish i could say that all the people who are unethical should go to prison. It just doesn't work that way.
In this case, the question is how did this whole idea of messing with the elections cause a problem.
Well...according to Bishop Abel Torres in his official letter to the AA (remember he was on the committee that counted the official ballots).
He states as they counted the ballots for President and V-president it all added up.
O.K. who is on the qualifying committee?
I heard it was Sanchez, Valverde, Misael Zaragoza, possibly gaxiola.
When it comes to the position of General Secretary the number's change.
Do you think Zaragoza or gaxiola have enough power to tell sanchez and valverde to ignore the 600+ votes for Solomon and instead put in Pacheco. I mean gaxiola and zaragoza voting for pacheco? Please!
So if this was to go into a court of law...the discovery process in a civil matter. (by the way it is going to be interesting how the suit is filed and who is named as the defendants)
I am certain that Sanchez and Valverde will be on the top of the list. If they name gaxiola and zaragoza then they will also have to give a deposition.
Very interesting what they will say, because I doubt that everyone involved is going to go along with sanchez' and valverde's story.
When plaintiff counsel begins to ask point blank questions... these men are not going to lie.
Now valverde might lie. I have seen him lie BIG, with a straight face.
Not everyone is going to lie for Sanchez and Valverde.
After the civil case is under way there will be interest within the attorney general or the district attorneys office to pursue this matter.
Unfortunately, the only ones that can really wind up in jail are sanchez and valverde, if they are the ones that skeemed up this whole idea.
It started the night before when the board had the heated discussion about who of them (sanchez,valverde, solomon, espinoza) would be on the qualifying committee. Historically it has been the president, general secretary and either the v-p or the Gen. Treasure but never has the pres. or the general sec been left out of this committee. It is because he handles the responsiblity of handling the paper trail as required by corporate laws.
Once it comes down to sanchez vs. valverde in a criminal case. They will turn on each other.
As a matter of fact the district attorney will offer immunity to either one who will rat on the other.
The district attorney will probably offer valverde a deal first because they want the bigger fish.
Who would you rather bust the pres or the v-pres?
So valverde does it again...he stabs his friend sanchez and gets very little time in the slammer.
the only threat to valverde was solomon and fortino.
both had actually been bishops of a district and valverde has never been a bishop of a district.
So why is valverde threatened by these men?
What is it?
I don't get it?
valverde has been on the general board playing musical chairs for how many years.
8 as christian education director
8 as secretary
5 as vp
and he is looking for 3 more as vp and 8 as pres.
That's 32 years of general board service. Valverde is like a career politician. Never wanting to leave politics and go back to the grass roots.
It adds up to extra $$. If you had a side job paying $5K a month you would stick with it wouldn't you?
And if you also got an Amex card and expense account for dinners, laker tickets and other research material...why would you give it up?
THE MUSICAL CHAIRS SHOULD BE CHANGED.
There should be a clause in the constitution of the AA that says they can only serve in 2 positions max for ex amount of years. It now stands that you can go from soc. asst to world missions to home missions to tresurer to secretary to vice president to president.
At least our nation has it right when it comes to this. You usually only move from vp to pres.
No more musical chairs. Get in and serve and get out of the way and let the AA progress.
ME no Leave. Likey mucho verde. Likey mucho power. likey mucho credit card.
Regards
sell out sam
I heard Sammy is having a bronze statue made of himself for the front gate of the new general offices in dallas, all decked out with a huge offering basket.
Valverde and Pacheco sure did put La Puente Bible School on the map.
The events that transpired at the Elections in Long Beach, CA, on November of 2006, have definitely been an unfortunate and a detrimental setback for the Apostolic Assembly. Respect, credibility, and stability have taken a severe downfall due to the actions of leaders who have demonstrated little or no regard for the well-being of the organization and its members. Our national theme has been “Healthy Assembly, Healthy Pastors, Healthy Families,” but the present situation which has, beyond the shadow of a doubt, been provoked by our leaders has taken us in the opposite direction. Never has our Assembly, Pastors, and Families been stricken with such a severe illness. Never has the Apostolic Assembly been in such disarray as it is at the present time. The leaders are under the credence that all is well when in truth there is at present an enormous dilemma facing the organization. The present administration would seemingly prefer to utilize the “sweep it under the rug method” to resolve the present troubling situation. They are faced with a monster of a situation that they created, but refuse to acknowledge it.
Quote
(MOST of my comments in parenthesis)
Thanks but no thanks. It is YOU who sounds like a typical AA theologian, taking one verse out of context and trying to make a doctrine out of it…
Anonymous wrote:
CHAPTER VI.
1. Dare. “The insulted majesty of Christians is denoted by a grand word” (Bengel).
2. Matters (κριτηρίων). The word means, 1, The instrument or rule of judging; 2, the tribunal of a judge. It occurs only here, ver. 4, and Jas. 2:6, where it means
judgment-seats.
My Reply:
(Verse 1: Dare. Your comments are irrelevant…)
(Verse 2: IN YOUR POINT # 2, The Greek word for MATTERS is –pragma, NOT kriteirion (κριτηρίων)!!
Kriteirion (κριτηρίων) which is the genitive plural neuter of the root word Kriteis (κριτής which means – judge, a judge -), means –JUDGES or Bench of Judges- not JUDGMENT SEATS!! If you were a bit closer, I would have given it to you, but you were off buddy, WAY OFF!!
(OOOPS… Somebody fell asleep during Greek 101…)
A raw translation straight from Greek…
ἀνάξιοί (incompetent, unworthy) ἐστε (2nd person plural form of eimi –to be… ARE YOU) κριτηρίων (Genitive plural NOUN – JUDGES or BENCH OF JUDGES – Would you really put –JUDGMENT SEATS- here? I’m glad you didn’t translate the NT. We’d all be in trouble) ἐλαχίστων ( of smallest or least (things) ) . . .
In other words. . .
are you –incompetent judges – (of the) smallest matters or things?
Rev, would you really have it to read:
Are you incompetent - judgment seats – of the smallest things?
That doesn’t make sense.
SOUNDS LIKE YOU GOT YOUR GREEK AT THAT LA PUENTE COLLEGE EVERY ONE IS MAKING FUN OF…
In summary, you said that:
MATTERS = Kriteirion – WRONG.
MATTERS = pragma not Kriteirion.
Athough MATTERS appears in English in V2, it is not in V2 in the Greek. It appears in V1 as pragma, but it doesn’t mean - judgment seats - there either.
Kriteirion = Judgment Seats – By definition, Yes. In context, here in this verse – WRONG. Here in context it is making reference to the incompetent ones ON the judgment seats – the Judges on the Benches.
You can look up the word on blue letter bible or whatever you copied and pasted your definition from, but it will not line up exactly to what it means in context because in 1 Co 6:2, the Kriteirion is found in genitive plural (notice the omega instead of the omicron). It is used as a noun not a verb, so the translation – to judge – by KJV, while it conveys a similar meaning since the incompetent judges are doing the judging, does not reflect the NOUN’s genitive PLURAL neuter status. Is it acceptable? Well, it’s ok, it passes. Is it judgment seats? NO!
<><><><><><><><><><><
Anonymous wrote:
This latter gives a good sense here without having recourse to the meaning suit or case, which lacks warrant. So Rev., in margin, “are ye unworthy of the smallest tribunals?” That is, are ye unworthy of holding or passing judgment in such inferior courts?
I wrote:
(SEE MY COMMENTS ABOVE>>>)
<><><><><><><><><><><><
Anonymous wrote:
3. “How much more (μήτιγε). It is hard to render the word accurately. How much more follows the Vulgate quanto nagis. It is rather, not to speak of; or to say nothing at all of.
Things that pertain to this life (βιωτικά). See on Luke 21:34.
4. Judgments (κριτήρια). Better, tribunals or courts, as ver. 2. If you have to hold courts for the settlement of private matters.
Set (καθίζετε). Seat them as judges on the tribunal. It is disputed whether καθίζετε is to be taken as imperative, set (A. V.), or as interrogative, do ye set (Rev.).* The A. V. seems, on the whole, preferable. The passage is well para-phrased by Farrar. “Dare they, the destined judges of the world and of angels, go to law about mere earthly trifles, and that before the heathen? Why did they not rather set up the very humblest members of the Church to act as judges in such matters?”
-----------------------------------
The Apostle is saying don't sue your brother just because the election was a fraud first go to them (AA) and they (AA) should be christian enough to allow the least of the members of the AA to judge this matter, because the least will some day judge not only with Christ but will judge over angels.
It appears that the AA did not except this because no independent committee has been allowed. Put some obsure pastor on an investigative committee to review this electoral matter.
Are you telling me that if a brother molests a child, just because he is a brother he should not be sued?”
I WROTE:
The Mathew Henry’s Concise Commentary states that 1 Co. 6 is in fact referring to Christians suing each other before the unbelievers (going to law). I’m amazed that you would argue that.
MHCC
“Christians should not contend with one another, for they are brethren. This, if duly attended to, would prevent many law-suits, and end many quarrels and disputes. In matters of great damage to ourselves or families, we may use lawful means to right ourselves, but Christians should be of a forgiving temper. Refer the matters in dispute, rather than go to law about them. They are trifles, and may easily be settled, if you first conquer your own spirits.”
The John Darby’s Synopsis of the New Testament states:
Chapter 6:1-11 treats the subject of wrongs. It was shameful that those who were to judge the world and the angels should be incapable of judging the paltry affairs of this world. Let the least esteemed in the assembly be employed in this service. Rather should they bear the wrong, whereas they did wrong themselves. But the wicked and the unrighteous would assuredly not inherit the kingdom. What a wonderful mixture we have here of astonishing revelations, of a morality that is unchangeable whatever may be the divine supremacy of grace, and of ecclesiastical order and discipline! The assembly is united to Christ. When He shall judge the world and pronounce the doom of the angels, she will be associated with Him and take part in His judgment, for she has His Spirit and His mind. Nothing however that is unrighteous shall enter into that kingdom, for in effect how could evil be judged by any that took pleasure in it? Christians should not go to a worldly tribunal for justice, but have recourse to the arbitration of the brethren-a service which, as entering so little into christian spirituality, was suited to the weakest among them. Moreover the proper thing was rather to suffer the wrong. Be it as it might, the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom.
You can also research the Adam Clarke Commentary, the Burton Coffman Commentaries, the People’s New Testament and many others. They ALL affirm that the context of 1 Co 6 is in direct reference to Christians SUING other Christians in court.
Should I accept that THEY ARE ALL WRONG and you Rev. are right?
Furthermore, to compare taking your brother to court because he was elected instead of you, does not compare to someone molesting a child, for instance, and you not taking him to court based on 1 Co. 6. Again, you take the scripture and misrepresent it to your audience here on this blog.
<><><><><><>
All that argument is valid if the person is your brother. Now is Mat18:17 what needs to be applied.
Just think, thousands of Apostolics worldwide are being indoctrinated by inferior, mal-educated minister who recieved their degrees from La Puente Bible School.
The La Puente Bible School graduates are the creme de la creme cause those other Gardinero's/Day Labor turned Pastor's were taught by the likes of Doctor Ron Fernandez/ Rev. Abel Rodriguez at Tomos Classes.
I remember one minister teaching mid-week study. In his sermon, he compared Cement to the body of Christ, the Water you mix with the Cement as the Holy Ghost, and when you mis them up, they form a Holy Ghost Filled person and that were were the foundation of the Church.
La Puente Bible School has done our church in. Can those legal eagles sue La Puente Bible School teachers for Malpractice?
You guys remember Valverde's Turkey sermon a few conventions back? The whole sermon was about how we were all turkeys and some of us are well done, and some medium well, so on and so on. I felt like I was in kids-church. I was just waiting for scratch paper to be handed out so I can color my turkey picture and clip it to my shirt.
I'm not sure what La Puente taught him, but he's better off sticking to his TD Jakes dvd's.
lol What a memorable preaching for a friday night convention sermon "Como Cocinar Un Pavo"
Proof that he watches Martha Stuart. lol
Gobble gobble gobble...said the turkey
Valverde must have been thinking he got that turkey to speak in tongues.
Valverde: La Puente Bible School
Graduate
Pacheco: La Puente Bible School
Graduate
Did the other GB members even go to college?
Aren't we proud of our educamnateded leaders.
Well now that we're turkeys per the Gospel according to Malverde, his next sermon will be based on being covered by the gravy.
He's going to end it with.... "BAM-BAM-BAM!" As he violently flicks Olive Oil into the crowd.
uh-oh, watch out Emeril, you got competition.
Man that was a long time ago....Bro. You missed the whole message with the turkey sermon. It was meant for you to analyze your own spiritual life (kind of like the parable of the seeds). C'mon, it was a decent sermon.(at least from what I remember from it)
Anyways, by your "respectfullness" to the man of God, I can guess how "cooked" (lol) you are. Lets just say you got a little salmonella going on~
I'm sorry that the word of God is boring to you. It's not for everyone.
"We are turkeys"...LOL
A Mike
A Mike
Actually I did get the analogy. Nowever, when you have the attention of 20,000 people all at one time and you preach about a turkey... come on bro, 20,000 people and you use a turkey!?
When you have 20,000 hearts waiting to be influenced, that's your chance at dropping a divinely inspired life-changing message. Not a turkey message. I don't think I missed it, I think he missed it.
I wouldnt be a bit suprised if Malverde showed up in a white suit like Benny Hinn next convention.
Yeah, using turkey comparisons is what I call "deep theology".
But then again, we are talking about a product of La Puente Bible School.
Fuller doens't have anything on La Puente.
All the pollos at that convention were offended he used a pavo as an example.
4:06- Hilarious
How many years ago was that message and you still remeber it. That means it had some kind of impact.
I guess we differ on the impact that sermon had, as will many others.
Jesus spoke in parables to the level of his audience. Maybe since Valverde saw you in the crowd he decided to speak of turkeys....LOL.. J/K bro (Had to drop that one in.
A Mike
Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. Matthew 5:25
A Mike,
Of course the turkey message had an impact. Who could forget that one? Not because it was life-changing, but because it was so ridiculous.
Again, 20,000 hungry hearts and you resort to a turkey message?
Malverde took "hungry for the word" to a whole new level that night.
I agree though, I'm a turkey. That turkey message would've been cool for a morning personal devotional or a seed for thought at a growth group. But not for an auditorium with 20,000 people.
how about a ticket of
Pres. Prado
V-p Gaddi
Sec Abel Torres
Tres. Arellano
Mission Adam Lopez
Home Mission ?
Social asst. Linda Montes
Pres. Prado HECK NO!
Can't control his family, he can't control the church.
V-p Gaddi
Do we need a Cocnut? Only pretends to be Mexican when he's kissing up to a Candidate for a Yob.
Sec Abel Torres Ok.
Tres. Arellano
Don't trust a man that preaches with sunglasses on in church.
Mission Adam Lopez
He'll turn convention into End Time.
Home Mission
Social?
Rosie Hernandez better.
We need young blood. Heres my board:
Pres. Mark Amin if he learns spanish
VP: David Jimenez
Secretary: Daniel Corky Medoza
Treasurer: Abel Duarte
Missions: Yvonne Correa
Chrstian Education: Jimmy Morales
Pres. Prado HECK NO!
Can't control his family, he can't control the church.
V-p Gaddi
Do we need a Cocnut? Only pretends to be Mexican when he's kissing up to a Candidate for a Yob.
Sec Abel Torres Ok.
Tres. Arellano
Don't trust a man that preaches with sunglasses on in church.
Mission Adam Lopez
He'll turn convention into End Time.
Home Mission
Social?
Rosie Hernandez better.
We need young blood. Heres my board:
Pres. Mark Amin if he learns spanish
VP: David Jimenez
Secretary: Daniel Corky Medoza
Treasurer: Abel Duarte
Missions: Yvonne Correa
Chrstian Education: Jimmy Morales
Corky is back in the Assembly? He had a non-denominational church after he left the AA.
Gaddi for VP only if he brings the 4 blonds with him!!
Pres. Abel Torres
Vice. Chucky Escamilla
G. Sec. Solomon (give him his job back)
Treas. Sam Mascareno (CPA)
MissionsFrank Balboa
Evang. Louie Guiterrez(just playing)
Soc. Asst. Zuniga(either will do)
corky burned his brigdes inside the AA and outside the AA.
Gaddi may not make a good pastor, but he would do great at president of the AA.
Hilario Gamez for President
Best choir directors of All Time?
rumor has it that Malverde will be preaching on tamales this year.
Pres. Sis. Jauhall
VP Sis. (Adam) Lopez
Sec. Sis. Linda Montes
Treas Sis. Homa Rodriguez
Missions sis. Arellano
Evangelism sis. Fortino
Soc. Asst. Vesta Mangum (she can work her way up to president).
best director of all time would be hermana fulana
sam mascareno wasn't a bad choir director.
Vice President Sam Valverde
The Vice-president chairs various working committees including the Confederations Committee, 2003 Ministerial Convention Committee, Revision of the Constitution Commission, and the Restoration Commission. The Vice-president also serves as the General Manager of the Apostolic Assembly Headquarters.
General Treasurer Leobardo Maffey
The General Treasurer is responsible for the administration of all the monetary funds and stewardship of all contributions. He maintains official records of all income and expenses, and authorizes expenditures in accordance with general agreements. In addition, he provides financial reports for the internal use of the Board of Directors, Episcopal Body and General Ministerial Conventions and for the external use of banking and other financial institutions.
And also brings the cheese!!!!!
U know for all the rats...lol
Just kidding but it could be true
There it is!
Pres and VP have no accountability to anyone but each other.
The district bishops should be able to meet separately and independent of the general board.
Things should be ratified by them (district bishops)
I'm hearing from the South Texas Convention going on this week (Oct.11-13).
Sanchez has sent his delegate Bishop Juan Hernandez to do his spying. This Bishop is NOT on the General Board, has no business being there in an official capacity (as a delegate).
They already have two Board members there: Pacheco and Prado.
I think that as a former Texan (originally from Mexico), Hernandez's job is probably to smooth things out for Sanchez, but the job is way too difficult for Juan and he is coming off like a nervous comedian, Cantinflas?
He got so overwhelmed with excitement at the Friday night service that he grabbed the microphone from the assigned M.C. and began yelling and hooping to where he shorted out the electricity for the musicians. How pathetic to see a old man trying to act like a kid with no boundries.
This is definately a job that he can't handle. But what is he trying to accomplish: is he trying to present himself to be the next President in case Sanchez gets kicked out? We're better off with what we have now!
Goofed again, Sanchez!
I'M BLOG NUMBER 1,000 What do I win?
Carranco is out!!!
promise.
Who is Carranco?
The General Board performs various roles ranging from setting and executing Church policy to judging grievances at all levels. The bylaws allow board members to be elected for four-year terms, but in practice their tenures are longer. The Board president traditionally serves two contiguous terms, and re-elections are not generally contested. After a four-year hiatus, former presidents can be re-elected to two additional terms, as was the case of Bishop Baldemar Rodriguez. Other board members are also re-elected, or have otherwise occupied other general board positions for several terms.
All members of the Board are also called Bishops as established by the organization's laws, but their authority exceeds that of the general episcopate because the General Board is the court of last resort in all Church matters. Recent reforms restrict Board members to two positions. They can hold a board position as well as another full-time responsibility such as pastoring a Church or overseeing a group of congregations as a District Bishop.
The General Board is elected every four years at an electoral convention. Only pastors are eligible to vote, in past times ministers could also vote, but this was repealed after alleged voting irregularities by previous officials. These elections lead to the selection of a Bishop President who heads the Board of Directors (Mesa Directiva) and the Episcopal Body. The Board of Directors also includes a Bishop Vicepresident, General Secretary, General Treasurer, Secretary of Foreign Missions, Secretary of National Missions, Secretary of Christian Education, and a Secretary of Social Assistance.
The General Board performs various roles ranging from setting and executing Church.
Executing is right!
How many members have been killed off by GB.
Probably to many to list
Post a Comment