Honorable Bishop President Daniel Sanchez,
I greet you in the name of our loving Savior Jesus Christ. I pray God's blessing and wisdom upon you and your family.
The purpose of my letter is to address the matter of the removal of Former Bishop Abel Torres.
As you are aware the movements of the General Board are posted on this site daily. Prior to your visit to Texas, the agenda of your travels was published on this site. The outcome of your meeting with Brother Torres was immediately published on this site. The outcome of your visit with the Pastors of their respective district was again immediately published on this site.
Although many disagree with the purpose of this website, it has become a gathering place for those who LOVE this heritage of the Apostolic Assembly. The amount of visitors to this site is astonishing. Those who take time to post are passionate about their feelings. Some are well articulated and some are crass and rude. But nonetheless they are passionate! No one, not one, wants to leave this beloved organization. That, My Dear Bishop President, is LOVE.
Many view this lawsuit as addressing a plague affecting this organization. Many view this lawsuit as the affliction itself. Which ever side the constituents of this Assembly are on, we seem to agree on one thing: Brother Abel Torres was wrongfully removed.
Bishop President Sanchez, respectfully I submit to you a personal story.
I once held a secret clearance for a government agency for a line of work I was in. Prior to my employment with this agency I underwent a very stringent and lengthy background test which included psychological tests, physical test, criminal checks, 30 year background checks, social affiliations, credit checks, drug tests and mental aptitude tests. This process took several months. By the grace of God, and God fearing parents who instructed me on the value of my testimony, I gained clearance and proceeded to work diligently for a number of years in this environment.
Several opportunities arose which required a move to the private sector. Upon leaving the government agency, my superior officer told me, "We are losing a valuable asset, if you are not happy with your new duties do not hesitate to come back. We will only have to review from the time of this termination to the time of your reinstatement request. You are already cleared and on record from this date backward". This meant if I chose to return, I would not have to undergo all the previous test again. I would only be accountable for the time I left this agency and the time I requested to return. My clearance up unto that point was granted.
Respectfully I bring these items to you attention.
1. Brother Torres was voted in by an overwhelming margin as Bishop of his respective district. The local pastors were and are aware of his involvement this lawsuit but still held fast in their hearts and spirit they wanted him to lead their district. This was because of his integrity, character and record.
2. Brother Abel Torres, under the existing CID, was approved to charge the office of District Bishop. The opportunity arose to disqualify Brother Torres from the District election for reasons of insubordination or rebellion but the election committee felt he was qualified nonetheless. Brother Torres gracefully accepted this position and communicated his desire to continue God's work through the office of Bishop and bring resolve to the aforementioned matter.
3. During Brother Torres' short administration as Bishop, he worked with humility, integrity and the fear of God. He did not use his position to bring reproach to the General Board or the Apostolic Assembly. He did not use his position as leverage on behalf of the plaintiff's of the lawsuit. Rather he worked to bring the parties together as a peacemaker.
4. On December 28, Brother Torres was removed from the Office of Bishop. Brother Torres gracefully accepted the General Board's removal of his title. He did not use this action to bring reproach to the General Board or the Apostolic Assembly.
My beloved Bishop President, I submit to you 1 Corinthians 13: 4-7.
4.Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5.It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6.Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7.It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Although comments on this website fall short of reflecting of this scripture, I would suggest that Brother Torres does not. His actions are that of love - (13. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love).
I addressed the disclosure or awareness of the movements of the General Board and actions during the dates leading and up to the removal of Brother Torres from Bishop to also bring to light that we are also aware that Brother Torres did no wrong doing whatsoever during his term as Bishop. I would suggest to you that had their been impropriety on Brother Torres' behalf, it would have been well documented on this website and should be held responsible for those
actions if true.
Since Brother Torres was accepted as Bishop during the district election, and there was no impropriety on his part during his administration and reason for removal, we are asking that Brother Torres be re-instated as Bishop of his respective district.
He was granted clearance by the local pastors of his district, he was granted clearance by the election committee and General Board. And he did nothing during his administration to remove said clearance up until the time he was stripped of his position and until present.
The local pastors and leaders again called upon his reinstatement the same day by their actions in re voting and calling upon him to be their Bishop. This should be taken as a vote of confidence on his behalf.
My beloved Bishop President. there are many matters in our Assembly that need to be addressed and corrected. We know that they cannot be changed over night. However, we do not need to keep adding to that list.
I know it is a great burden that is on the shoulders of you and your administration, I pray that God grants you the strength and wisdom to keep the flame burning.
I ask that you please reinstate Bishop Abel Torres as Bishop. It is the right thing to do.
With Respect and Love,
Apostolic Voice
952 comments:
1 – 200 of 952 Newer› Newest»Apostolic Voice,
Very well written letter.
I pray that somehow Brother Sanchez would wake up and allow God to truly use him to resolve all of this mess.
However if History repeats itself, Sanchez has shown himself in the past to only be looking out for himself and too prideful to publicly admit any mistakes or wrongdoing.
I hope and pray that I am wrong.
Well Sanchez has had plenty of chances to get things straight. Even now, if he would just bring everyone together and have a re-election, my guess is that they would withdraw the lawsuit.
Sanchez is making God look bi-polar.
First, he tells the electorate to vote God's Will.
After the votes are counted, he and the QC, eliminate certain candidates.
What happend? Did God change his mind?
That was just the general convention.
Then, there was the election of Torres.
Pray and Vote they say. Then the GB ackknowledges the vote and praises God's will only to come back later and say, SUSPENDED.
But then again, it just demonstrated that these La Puente Bible Schoolers know little about God's Will.
They, the GB, are making God look psychotic. Way to go Malverde...What chapter did you get that from TD Jakes/Rick Warren?
Van,
Isn't that a scary thought? The fact that God's will and scripture only applies when it is aligned with personal interest?
The GB is guilty of cherry-picking out of the Bible and applying it only as they see fit. On one hand, an adulterous woman is completely restored - on the other, another adulterous woman is shamed, ostracized and made to have nothing to do with ministry.
One day the GB says it's the will of God, the next day they undo the will of God.
The GB has made a complete mockery of God's sovereignty and has carved out a completely new gospel that has absolutely no beating path to the cross - only a beating path to self!
Hey, did you know that Daniel Sanchez will be in San Jose CA today?!
It has been confirmed that he is visiting Bishop Ishmael Arellano, Pastor of Central Church of San Jose, who has been in the hospital due to surgery.
I wonder where Sanchez will be preaching tonight? Ist San Jose, Central, 3rd CHurch?
Didn't Sanchez and The HGB screw Arellano over as well?
Interesting that he is coming to visit him!
Daniel Sanchez will probably threaten to remove Ishmael Arellano on his surgery bed.
Oh well, Ishmael Arellano is not a saint either. It would benefit the church if he would be removed.
It would give him also more time to find the daughter that he help conceive with another woman and then abandoned and marry his now current wife - his reward? 24 years of fulltime salary on the board.
01/04/2008 VACATE HRG HEARING SCHEDULED FOR 01/17/08 AT 08:30 IN DEPARTMENT R12.
What vacate means?
Hey Sabel,
do you have proof of that? It seems like every former or current member of the HGB has a dark moon that they never showed before, and now with all the technology and freedom to speak that we have now we are landing in the dark side of their moons.
Our rockets finally are visiting places that we never imagine to see.
Asking Sanchez to change his ways? In my opinion it would have been easier to Ask Hitler to love the Jews.
RE: Ishmael Arellano
I'm not sure what proof i can offer you. But when his dauther looked him up and appeared at his house to tell him he was her daddy, he was forced to let his church know and had to make an emergency trip to the general offices to let thme know as well. It was a big blow to the church and it was the talk of the town. She visited the church a few times and on one occasion I was introdueced to her by one of Ishmael's ministers.
Needless to say, he wasn't very welcoming to her and not very responsive to her trying to reconnect with him. She's dissapeared since then. This incident was posted on a previous blog post. You can read the details there.
I'm also a distant relative of his and also pretty upset that the general board did not advice him at all to take time to own up to his responsibility as a father to this woman. Instead, he was given a few more terms on the general board. Dead beat dads on the GB, what next? Voting fraud?
All is quiet. Almost too quiet. Kind of like the calm before the storm.
Vacate as in vacate the election.
vacate:
revoke: annul by recalling or rescinding.
In other words, annul the results of the election.
02/07/2008 8:30 AM DEPT. R12 HEARING RE: DETERMINATION OF VALIDITY OF ELECTION.
Will anyone out there be attending the hearings?
Attention all!
The Judge is to make his final determination by February 7, 2008. We should know that day if a new election will take place, and if the GB members are going to resign. Let's pray and fast the Lord will touch the judge's heart and remove all the corruption and politics from the GB, since our present leader's wouldn't do it!
Re: Bishop Ishmael Arellano
Get your facts straight please!!
SABEL THIS IS FOR YOU!!
1. Bishop Ishmael Arellano was married, had a child and was divorced prior to coming to the Lord.
2. When his daughter found him, she was welcomed by Bishop Ishmael Arellano, his wife and daughters.
Bishop Arellano is one of the few people left in our Assembly with integrity. He has been faithful to the Lord his entire life.
God Bless.
JD
RE: Ishmael Arellano
My facts are straight. I didn't say anything false did I? he had a child that he never was a father to. even after coming to the Lord he never took responsibility of his own seed. what a shame. he never bothered because he was afraid of what how it would affect his ministry if people found out about another child from another woman. so he just abandoned his daughter.
1 Tim. 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
JD, according to this scripture, you're wrong, IShmael Arellano has NOT been faithful to the Lord.
i've been to his church and even at family functions he will say that his ministry comes before his family. I know, I'm his relative - he has hurt more people than you can imagine.
4.Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5.It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6.Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7.It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Looks like the HGB have broken all of them. What a wonderful day in the neigborhood.
SABEL
Just so you know I am also a relative as well. His ex-wife disappeared with the child and was unheard of until his daughter decided to search for him.
I believe you need to seek God in prayer before spreading such aweful rumors without knowing the inside story. You say you are related, but real christian relatives love and pray for one another not talk about one another.
JD,
She disappeared?? She lived in a neighboring city for crying out loud. Rather than him looking for her, she found him instead. I'll tell ya, I don't see how a father can go 30 years without being interested in a child he helped conceive.
Ishmael Arellano kept it a secret until she showed up on the scene. Then he had to tell the GB.
These are not rumors JD. I'm only getting across that the GB has a very very low expectations when it comes to accountability. The hold none of their own accountable and do not help them correct their mistakes and seek restoration.
Restoration?? How does that apply to him?? He did nothing to have to be restored. Don't we all make mistakes?? Are you perfect?? The Bible says that he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Unless you are perfect go ahead and continue judging without knowing real true facts. How do you know whether or not he regrets not being there. Have you somehow managed to telepathically enter his thoughts? You just don't know, I don't know either.
As far as him hurting people, haven't you ever offended anyone? I know that I have, but does that make me a bad person of course not. It just means that I am human.
Only God is perfect.
Yes, only his close family members new. He was not hiding the fact that he had a daughter. We are all entitled to some privacy are we not??? Not secrecy, privacy.
This was never a secret. As far as him having to tell the GB, I doubt it.
As far as the GB is concerned, yes they have made mistakes but who are we to judge. The bible says that you will be judged by the same measure that you judge. So my advice to you is to be careful. Focus on getting some prayer into your life instead of spreading vicious rumors and gossip.
Bishops personal lives are open game. If they don't like the public scrutiny, they can step down. As Bishops and members of the General Board, they are to be examples.
If they want privacy, let them resign from their "elected" positions.
Who are we to judge? Read the book of Judges. Judges may order the sentence, but we the jury determine the verdict.
So the matter is of Mr. Arellano. Did he pay his child support? What about spousal support? Its yes or no. If no, then we have a Deadbeat and Irresponsible Bishop.
If yes, then he paased the test.
"As far as the GB is concerned, yes they have made mistakes but who are we to judge."
Quote
Mistakes??????
What world do you live in?
Its not the mistakes they have made its all the cover up, and low handed back stabbing they have done to get back at the Men that have brought the problem to the light like Bishop Torres.
Yes we will be judged for our actions, but don't you think we'll also be judged for turning a blind eye and say it was little white lie or white mistake.
From what I have read the men that have brought up the election fraud problem have done it with the upmost respect, and have tryed to get it resolved inhouse. The HGB on the other hand have done some uncalled things to get even at this men. But I guess its ok with you. Your one of the reasons the AA is in the condition its in because you would rather turn an eye and say its nothing but a little mistake.
Aaa, it is a matter holding power. The apostolic church leaders have lost their vision, and whatever they are attempting to introduce to the members will be crucial in delivering it if the key members are in place, so election time is rigged to maintain those people in the elite little club. They want to introduce their own agenda. We shall find out what it is, won't we?
This is all extremely hard on everyone involved.
I do believe that the GB did something wrong, I just don't like how it's all unfolding.
I am very close to both sides and this is all very sad. Sometimes I just wish we could just all be independent instead of having all this organizational red tape and politics.
This is what happens when we as christians have no prayer life.
Bashing people and insulting them is not at all of christian character. Prayer is the answer. We need to get back to prayer.
Personally I am going to set aside a couple of fasting days a week for Bishop Sanchez and the GB for God to give them wisdom to handle this situation with integrity.
Breaking news!!
This coming 28 Sam Valverde and Leo Maffey are going to removed Bishop Willy Mendoza in Houston, to be replace by Arthur Espinoza. The main idea is that pastor Mendoza is too old and is one of the consenters and Espinoza desires his big church.
Ring of Fire,
what you said is exactly my point. thanks for clarifying. mistakes are fine to make so as long as your learn and grow from them. But when leadership has a habit of hiding the mistakes and never learning from them, and to top it off, they bash everyone else for the same mistake, I think that is wrong.
tthe genral board are held to a completely different standard. They put standards on everyone else and scold them and embarras them when they make a mistake, but the GB is not held to any standard at all. Finally someone raises the standard like Bro Torres, and the GB are crying like babies and removing people.
Their is something wrong with that picture.
True leadership is a product of inspiration, not manipulation.
Nothing is more dangerous than power in the hands of one who suffers from a sense of mental inferiority .The formula for oppression is power without mental soundness.
In regards to the comments about Ishmael Arellano concerning the fact that he is was dead beat dad, I can say that I know the woman who is the mother of his first daughter. She is Anglo-Saxon. They lived in the Bay Area in northern CA. They had a child out of wedlock,
Shortly after that, he was baptized, and apparently the woman did not want to become an Apostolic, so they went their separate ways, and then he married Juana Martinez, his current wife.
It was after that time that he came into the ministry and he went to pastor in Chicago, IL., in Chicago Heights. It was sometime in the 70’s when he was named Secretary of Missions, a position he held until 2006.
On one occasion, that he was given the opportunity to speak in Aneheim, he said something that has stuck with me to this day.
I was reminded of it when the situation with his daughter was brought to the blogs.
While he was speaking, he brought up the fact that when he was working a secular job in the Bay Area, he saw his boss driving a Cadillac.
He promised himself that someday he would own one. So he gave up his secular job and became a Pastor. Among the first things he did on becoming Pastor, was to buy himself a Cadillac.
He drove it to where he used to work and told his ex boss, “see, I’m not working anymore, I am a Pastor, and I am driving a Cadillac like your.”
This comment announced from the pulpit has made me uncomfortable for many years. He quit working and became a pastor and drives a Cadillac. What must have gone through the mind of his former boss?
If he could afford a Cadillac, why could he not afford to send a little money to his child?
You can bet that there are more dead-beat-dad Pastors in the Apostolic Assembly, I know of several here in California, and boy, are they bashers on morality to their members.
Now, I understand that Arellano wants Sanchez to turn over his church in San Jose to his brother, Sam Arellano to keep the church and the money in the family.
Why should he have the right to make that decision, when there are many other good men in this area who could do a good job with the church? It is nepotism all over again. I wonder what Sanchez will do with that!
TO KNOWITALL:
Who are these dead beat Dads you talk about....
I believe that these men need to be accountable for their actions.
I understand that their sin is covered by the blood at Calvary; however they need to own up to their children.
Is there any other blogs on the the AA lawsuit beside this one and "Air it Out?"
To 95 theses
I don’t know of any other blogs, but if you want the latest information on what is going on in the Assembly, try catching one of the church ladies and ask her for her e-mail.
Our esteemed Dorcas maintain a constant stream of communication amongst each other via the internet.
Board members wives and Pastors wives and everyday Dorcas e-mail one another throughout the day, feeding each other the latest gossip, the latest rumors and scandals.
Bits and pieces of information fly back and forth daily and are updated though the day.
This is a well oiled machine, they have the latest on everything, including pictures of Board members and how they are holding up during this lawsuit, how they have aged due to the stress of these proceedings.
Of course, then you see them at the Conventions, looking haughty and arrogant ‘wouldn’t hurt a fly.’
They go to these retreats, leaving their husbands abandoned at home, thinking their wives are getting consecrated and blessed, but they are there to gather more e-mail addresses and more gossip to continue the flow of information, dis-information and evidence to shun and blackball others.
Look out for the red-hot gossip by e-mail. Talk about ‘hot-mail.’
They will know every dead-beat dad as well as where all the bodies are buried.
Of course, they won’t say, but God help you if they catch any woman wearing a ring, an open toed shoe, or pants, otherwise not having the ‘uniform’ of the Apostolic woman...the projection of their so-called holiness, they will have you in hell via the internet.
Where they get continual information is not quite clear, but it is up to the minute!
You have to go to one of the Dorcas Retreats, have your e-mail address added to their list, and you will be updated on the very latest gossip throughout the day.
95 theses
I don’t know of any other blogs, but if you want the latest information on what is going on in the Assembly, try catching one of the church ladies and ask her for her e-mail.
Our esteemed Dorcas maintain a constant stream of communication amongst each other via the internet. Board members wives and Pastors wives and everyday Dorcas e-mail one another throughout the day, feeding each other the latest gossip, the latest rumors and scandals.
Bits and pieces of information fly back and forth daily and are updated though the day.
This is a well oiled machine, they have the latest on everything, including pictures of Board members and how they are holding up during this lawsuit, how they have aged due to the stress of these proceedings.
Of course, then you see them at the Conventions, looking haughty and arrogant ‘wouldn’t hurt a fly.’
They go to these retreats, leaving their husbands abandoned at home, thinking their wives are getting consecrated and blessed, but the Dorcas are there to gather more e-mail addresses and more gossip to continue the flow of information, dis-information and evidence to shun and blackball others.
Look out for the red-hot gossip by e-mail. Talk about ‘hot-mail.’
They will know every dead-beat dad as well as where all the bodies are buried.
Chances are, they won’t say, but God help you if they catch any woman wearing a ring, an open toed shoe, or pants, otherwise not having the ‘uniform’ of the Apostolic woman, the projection of their so-called holiness, they will have you in hell via the internet.
Where they get continual information is not quite clear, but it IS up to the minute!
You have to go to one of the Dorcas Retreats, have your e-mail address added to their list, and you will be updated on the very latest gossip throughout the day.
OOOOPS....
Dorcas, that an interesting group.
MOP Ladies, see what you have to look forward to.
"From Diva to Dorca" that would be a good title for a book.
How about,
"From Diva, to Dorca, the Jaime Aguilar Story"
The should bring back Conventions to Anaheim, or open a "Los Sanchez" in Dallas.
knowitall,
RE: Ishmael Arellano
that is a sad thing. he was/is a dead beat dad and he was still allowed to be on the board and paid him enough to buy a cadillac. nothing wrong with repenting for a mistake and then continuing with ministry because God's grace forgives, but hiding it and never taking responsibility for it is what the GB is good at. There are lots of examples of this in the GB. I just think it contradicts to have a 'healthy pastors healthy churches' theme and it's ok to abandon your child and rather than find your child you buy a cadillac.
Ishmael Arellano and the rest of the GB lead with double standards. Arellano's co-pastor also owned a business and served wine and beer in san francisco. So while we were saving people from drugs and addiction, the co-pastor was serving beer and wine, and this was ok with the pastor. But if a girl wears pants or cuts her hair, we get put on probation and yhelled at very very harshly.
so the GB needs to have more integrity and needs to be better examples. we've never had them, not with this board or previous one. it's too bad the good pastors never get voted in, it's always the sneaky ones.
Double Standards? More like Double Double Standards. Gluttony is a sin Ignored in a AA.
Did Arellano get that Cadillac from Pacheco?
Paz de Cristo, durante un buen tiempo e estado observando este blog y no habia podido expresarme (o tenia miedo) ya que no se como escribir en ingles (pero entiendo muy bien cuando lo escriben), y al saber que la mayoria de todos aqui hablan el español he decidido a formar parte de el.
Soy un pastor/fundador de una iglesia que nunca recibio apoyo de la mesa directiva y ni siquiera del distrito al que pertenesco aqui en California.
Cuando inicie no se me permitia invitar a nadie a predicar o dar alguna conferencia para los jovenes los cuales estaban recibiendo entrenamiento para un futuro liderazgo.
Cuando paso el periodo de los 2 años de prueba ya habia podido bautizar a unos 16 hermanos de los cuales 3 se desviaron y recibi unas 3 familias que vinieron a congregarse.
Junto con los 5 que iniciamos "la obra" eramos aproximadamente ya unas 28 personas en dos años.
Invite a algunos predicadores, evangelistas, pastores (incluyendo 3 que estan ahora en la Mesa Directiva) y las respuestas fueron excusas de no poder venir.
Que mal me sentÃ.
La historia es diferente aqui en el presente. 8 años han pasado y nuestra iglesia a crecido bastante. No dire la cantidad pero sobrepasa la cantidad average de la iglesia.
Ahora RECIBO llamadas de diferentes pastores, evangelistas. Mis respuestas han sido "NO!, nuestro schedulle esta lleno". Ahora que nuestra iglesia les puede recojer buenas ofrendas quieren venir. Que asco y coraje me da todo esto. En nuestra iglesia predica el ministerio local y nuestros futuros lideres que con mucha oracion y paciencia el Señor les ha transformado la vida.
La palabra de Dios dice "si en lo poco me fuiste fiel en lo mucho te pondre" asi mismo es en nuestra iglesia si con pocos miembros nos apoyaron pues ahora con muchos les apoyaremos"
Me identifique mucho con el encargado de la obra que tuvo que ir a pedir ayuda a otra organización para poder sobrevivir.
Espero que estos abusos que estan cometiendo nuestros honorarios se detenga y que el Juez les destituya y que los hombres que de verdad Dios quiere ahi sean colocados, ya que si el Diablo se une a la iglesia estos abusadores acabaran con todos nosotros.
Dios les bendiga a todos
UPD
Hey... Some of us are "Espanol Retards"... Can you translate???
Thanks
Josh
Yeah Josh,
Basically he said for you to go back to the UPC and be Happy! LOL!
English translation of post by "spanish_voice"
Summarized version of main points:
* I've been reading the blogs and decided to finally say something.
* I am a pastor in California who started a church and was never supported or backed by the GB or local district.
* I was not allowed to invite preachers during our 2 year probationary period.
* After our 2 year period I invited preachers, including people who are now on the board and I was hurt when they all would decline.
*After 8 years now, our church has grown to a larger than average size. Now that our church can give large offerings I am getting calls from evangelist who want to come and preach. I now have to decline their offers due to a full schedule.
*I was able to identify well with the pastor who had to ask another denomination for help in order to survive.
*I hope these abuses stop and whoever God wills to be on the board, that they remain on the board.
God Bless.
UPD
I was reading this and thought I was reading the AA blog.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080115/ap_on_re_us/preacher_paternity
Sounds like our own AA HGB in action
To Spanish Voice:
Salud.
Even though I am bilingual, I prefer to write to you in English so that I don’t have to translate as you say that you understand what is written in English.
Thank you for sharing your experience with the General Board of the Apostolic Assembly. I know exactly what you are talking about because I have lived this.
The system that the AA has is totally backward because they require nuevas obras to help them instead of them helping las nuevas obras. They do not realize the importance of support for church growth, to help out our ‘nuevas obras.’
Instead, they want your contributions to the General Board in the form of tithes.
Please understand that you missed nothing by their not wanting to visit you.
Their speeches are not sermons, are not edifying, are not constructive, are not theologically sound, are not doctrinally correct.
If you wanted a speech on the 3‘P’s”- Pantalon, Peinado y Pintural, or continued bashing of women, then you can say that they needed to visit.
But if you wanted to give good spiritual food to your young congregation, be glad that the General Board did not visit. God is good.
An example of this is a Pastor in National City who cannot preach, never went to CBAN or any Bible College and every week has speakers from the General Board and other Pastors who can vote, come to his church so that his church can be in ‘revival.’
What he is really doing is keeping in contact with those who might get him elected onto the General Board.
I salute you, Pastor Spanish Voice, for with your own endurance, patience and staying power you have build a church and congregation that is receiving the Word from within rather than have outsiders bring their bad influence to your people.
Que bueno, hermano, que UD detiene a la mesa directiva y todos los otros gargarntones de venir a su iglesia para decir ‘corre, iglesia, corre,’ o que predique de Genesis a Apocalipsis y en fin, no dijo nada.
Ud a protegido a su congregación, como buen Pastor.
LOL... Things arent so great in the UPC right now either. Im sure you know of the World Pentecostal Fellowship, which split from the UPC a few weeks ago. There are so many churches leaving right now; missionaries from the UPC are having to deputize (go from church to church in the US to raise money for their work in foreign countries [Why doesnt the AA do that for Missions btw???] months longer due to large churches withholding missionary offerings. I have some friends who are Pastors to S America. They were suppose to deputize for 6 months. Well 9 months later they are still here in the states trying to raise money to go back.
Between_Us,
I never looked at it that way, when new churches start they are expected to support the board, rather than the board support them.
Hmmmm... is it me or does this organization have the aroma of a multi-level marketing business.
*The people at the top rake in all the money and buy mansions, SUV's, etc.
*The product being SOLD is salvation. In order to stay in the business you MUST send in your monthly payments in the form of tithes - or else.
*If your church generates enough money, you will keep your position as pastor otherwise you're at risk of being demoted to layman.
*If you transfer to another organization you are then considered the competition and then looked down upon for discontinuing your membership.
I can go on... anyone care to add?
This doesn't sound like a Christian organization, it sounds like AMWAY and the guys at the top are getting richer and richer.
dang talk about becoming talibanes, this is from that new church that split from the upc..."The believer abstains from purveyors of all such, including, but not limited to, prurient print material, unclean musical acts and songs, and musical productions (I Corinthians 15:33), Hollywood-style movies, and television, worldly sports, improper internet content, and all other forms and mediums" there goes having a pool party after church and going bowling... wow more" Any activity which lends itself to the accommodation or temptation to such is to be avoided, including sensual dress, dancing, mixed swimming, and attendance at places and events which accommodate such (I Peter 2:11). In addition, other abuses of the body such as gluttony ..so there goes attending next weeks game between sanDiego and the patriots..Wow i thought that upcs were overboard this new church has more talibans than anything..
Well, I went to visit the website of the Worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship and it seems to me that they are taking it wayyyyyy back...
I dont know maybe I am wrong...But it seems to me that sometimes "we" major in the minors...
such things as the "King James Version" only...Thats what we discuss and conflict over, TV and election fraud...
It is no longer...How can I be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.
I beleive in Holiness...But sometimes we focus so much on the outside that we forget that it is the heart that needs changing first, then the rest will follow...
Where on their website are you all finding this info ?
I dont see it.
Nevermind.
I found it my error was I was looking at this site :
http://www.pentecostalworldfellowship.org/
Not this one.
http://www.worldwidepf.com/page.php?ID=29
A new organization only to teach more religion? no tv in this age and time? And they call that Worldwide? how are they going to do it without tv? how are they going to win souls with fanatism?
Knowitall,
Hahaha.....Ishmael Arellano giving the church to Sam Arellano???? Hahahah....now I know you all really have your wires crossed. That is ridiculous!! Bishop Sam Arellano just recently retired and is not even considering pastoring at this time. It's so untrue. I'm rolling on the floor laughing. Hahahahaha.....Tooo...toooo funny!!!
JD,
Being retired doesn't mean you're not allowed to come back. Some people intentionally "retire" to get out of something they don't want to be in, only so they can have the freedom to move somewhere they've been dreaming to move. Your laughter makes it sound like the idea is too far-fetched. It really isn't. This happens all the time.
I do hope sam arellano stays in chicago and out of central san jose. central doesn't need another tyrant ruler like Ishmael. That church has been through so much. In fact, everytime I've visited my cousins there he's scolding the congregation about going to the movies, pants, make-up etc. And when he scolds, he really scolds. He turns evil! He's a very scary man.
Of some of the Sins, which is better to committ?
Fornication?
Lust?
Greed?
Gluttony?
Debauchery?
Gluttony leads to diabetes. Lust? A Harmless sin, its all in the mind ke no? Greed makes you take advantage of people, ie Car Scams. Debauchery, kinky sex with whips, chains, handcuffs, not good.Adultery means breaking a vow with your spouse or their spouse.
Fornication on the other hand, is good for exercise and mental health. Sure, there's the risk of std's, but wear the protection.
Hmmm, my vote is for Fornication as the least harmful sin.
Yes, churches are not Multilevel Marketing Machines. Just ask the Tschingakoko Blast Brothers. Jesus not only makes you Wise, it makes you CyberWise.
Well, off to the porn sites....see ya.
Colorado,
That is because it is too far-fetched. Someone fell off the rocker on that one. FYI Honorary Bishop Sam Arellano now lives in California, is retired and living happily in a small town.
Oh so you think Bro. Ishmael is scary??? Have you ever tried to get to know him personally??? Probably not. I'll bet that if you got to know him personally you'd change your mind.
It seems that everyone that comes into this post is bitter about something.
Bishop Ishmael Arellano is no longer on the board so back off and leave the fellow alone!!
By the way, if you read your Bible the Apostles sound a little scary as well. But it is their zealous for the Lord that makes them so passionate about the things of the Lord.
I do believe that standards are important. The Bible says that we are in the world but not of it. If we begin to look like the world our actions will follow and pretty soon there will be no distinction. I do not however believe in shoving it down people's throat. You pray, pray and pray and lead by example and teach with love.
If we really study our Bible closely we will find many scary men in the Bible. Noah, Moses, and the other prophets sound scary too. But they led the people. Sometimes the people grumbled and they got punished for it. Now, thank God that we live in the period of Grace otherwise we'd all be dead!
Van,
None of those sins would be good to commit. I pray that you are just joking and not really serious.
Sure, wearing protection will allow you to have "Safe sex" but no safe sex is safe sex at all if it leads you to hell. I tell you with love my brother.
By the way if you want to know the worst sin. It is hypocrisy and Religiousness. Jesus condemned this.
JD,
I did go to that church for the first 10 years of his pastorship. I got to know him and Juanita very well and helped in every way that I could. I visited their home on McLaughlin many times.
But when I realized the abuse of power and position and we were being brought down rather than brought up I decided it was time to go.
Everyone there complains about Ishmael Arellano but there was nothing that can be done. Everyone is afraid to be called into his office, everyone is nervous when he's around - it erally is a scary feeling.
The reason he is brought up in the blogs is because the board always seems to put the most unqualified of all men on the baord and as pastors. They need a new method of approving these men.
A BIG AMEN TO THAT !
Why does it seem that the most qualified men are never even considered for these high level positions.
Its always the same guys or their friends or relatives.
So sad
standards once again
taking scriptures out of context to explain the forms of living of an apostolico as a true biblical doctrine of the apostol..so please talk about those things not the same conversations of all times..
Religious people go so far as saying that there is no revival cause the church does not want to dress like little house on the prairy..when in fact its because we left out being the church of acts long time ago to become a corporation that upholds man made teachings that are hold higher then true biblical teachings of the bible.la iglesia apostolica de la fe en cristo jesus inc VS the church of acts...
assemblea topics:velos, pants, make up, bishops titles, what happen back in 1920s and laters years with brother nava
CHurch of acts: manifestation of power and growth, growing in numbers having Godly man as leaders, decipleship. if you dont believe this read all those apostolic websites and you will find the topics to be.. PANTALONES AND LAS MUJERES LOOKING LIKE EL MUNDO
"""""Sure, wearing protection will allow you to have "Safe sex" but no safe sex is safe sex at all if it leads you to hell. I tell you with love my brother.""""
I see what you are saying. I was just trying to evaluate what sins are better to commit with the least bad outcomes.
Using your logic about Safe sex and how it can lead you to Hell, then the same would apply to gluttony. In that case, there's no safe Tamale, since being a Tamale eating Glutton can lead you straight to the gates of Hell.
I'll take fornication over being a gluttonous Tamale eater any day.
Besides, gluttony and fornication are sins that are forgiven on a hourly basis in the AA. If they weren't forgiveable sins, we wouldn't have as many minister and pastors as well as Praise Teamers and Musicos. Fact.
This is sister from Central San Jose.
Hermanos, I didn't want to come in here and set the record straight. But some of you are attacking people and situations which I am very familiar with. Unfortunately, the talk about bishop Arellano are very wrong.
First of all I have been here throughout the ordeal with his daughter. She was kept away from him by the ex and this was because she didn't want anything to do with church. The daughter came looking for Brother Arellano and she was happily married with a few children. I was there when she came to visit our church and she was very pleased, but didn't want anything to do with the AA. The family has gotten together including Brother Bert & Jackie and his kid's from Bakersfield. The family is all supportive of the daughter and she has much respect for Bishop Arellano. There are no hard feelings. As far as bishop Arellano being a tyrant... he was a little difficult in the beginning but that was because he was trying to get a feel for the church. Much like Hoyer is having problems in the Central California District. The difference is that Bishop Arellano learned real fast that he was no longer in Chicago and adjusted himself. He is actually a very very good man. He has a conscious. Every ministry that he touches, prospers. Look at the general treasure position, look at the mission department. They were both hurting when he took over and he has turned them around like no one ever imagined. He did the same for Central church in the finances. The church had some financial problems, not because of the previous pastor Abel Aguilar, but because of the previous pastor, Frank Sanchez and his brother-in-law, Terrasas. They really messed up the church and then left it for pastor Aguilar to pickup the pieces with hermano Olague and brother Solano. They both told me that the previuos administration was the cause of the financial situation that left Pastor Aguilar with a great debt.
You shouldn't bash brother Arellano. He is a good man and no we aren't afraid of going into his office. Who ever is saying this is lying.
Bishop Arellano is a good man and pastor. You can call him a dead beat but it wasn't his fault that he wasn't allowed into his daughters life. He immediately openned the doors to her.
I would say more but I think you can understand they probably want privacy on these matters.
They are still in touch.
Thank you Sister,
I finally recieve some back up here. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
clap, clap, clap....
All I see is the same bloggers coming in here and making the same old comments.
Do you not have any substance:
I keep hearing how the general board is made up of unqualified men.
Who else would you recommend?
I agree that Eddie Pacheco, Martin O'campo & Art Espinoza should be out but otherwise the rest are about the best we have other than: Daniel Solomon(level headed) and Fortino(hot tempered), Abel Torres.
I would set up the board with Abel Torres as President, Solomon as Vice, send Valverde to Secretary and bring Arellano back for a term as Treasurer. Let Prado stay, bring in a PHd as Christian Ed.(Do we have any?) Let Abel Aguilar do Foreign Missions. He is probably the only natural missionary in the assembly who pastors.
You say what you want about this selection but it includes both sides of the Lawsuit.
It is non-biased!
sister from central san jose,
You are right, his daughter found him after he was absent from her life for 30 something years. You call this a good man? Any father with a good head would rather lose an arm than lose contact with his first born. This is 30 years without your child, not a few months or weeks, that was alot of time to find your dauther, she was only a couple cities away.
Just because he solved money problems doesn't make him a good pastor. He has ran so many people out of his church which is why his church is struggling right now. Htey have not grown one bit and are having hard time keeping their membership. That church has been around since I was a joven and it still has not grown one bit. all his ministers are gone and now he's just givign out licenses to anybody who can read.
atleast with aguilar it showed a lot of promise. once arellano came, it was over, the church went down hill and has not recovered.
Colorado,
I didn't feel I needed to respond again...but I will.
I have already explained the daughter issue...He had no way of finding her since her mother did not want her to contact brother Arellano. When she decided she would get ahold of him, he openned his doors to her. She was not and is not bitter. She understands it was because of her mother and the way her mother wanted things.
On the case of the church going down since the Aguilars left you are incorrect again. We had many years of glory here with brother Arellano. I believe that him being sick has not helped him much lately. But Central Church was for many years a great church and just recently had a decline.
Once again not only does he do great in handling finances, he is a very good pastor. He and sister Arellano would give you their shirt off their back. They live in a very humble home in East San Jose. The home is humbly decorated but nice.
Brother Arellano is old school in some ways but a very compassionate and humble man.
Just because you don't personally like him, we at Central Church admire his courage.
Lets go back to the GB scandal.Arrelano is of no real consequence now. How many of you are going to court the 7 of February at 8:30 am.
In Re: Arellano
When there is a WILL, there is a WAY.
How is it he serves an ALMIGHTY GOD, but isn't able to contact his daughter for 30 years?
Answer: He made no effort.
He made no effort to have a relationship with his child for 30 years and only when she came looking for him.
Deadbeat Dad? Maybe. But definately not a MAN. A real man would do as the bible says and OWN UP to his responsabilities as a MAN, A MAN of GOD.
He had more DESIRE to get that Cadillac than he did to have a relationship with his own Daughter.
So, my fellow bloggers, I ask you who know the Arellano situation, which came first:
A. The Cadillac
or
B. The Restored Relationship with his Daughter.
Answer that, and you'll have the REAL CHARACTER of Arellano.
Gracias colorado por traducir y a Between us gracias por esas palabras las aprecio mucho.
Yo no pienso ir a la corte. No quiero llorar ni morirme de un ataque al corazon frente de todos si el juez falla por la Asamblea Apostolica.
Puede que lo haga. Por que?
Por que nosotros pastores (que nos gusta decir amen a TODO!)aprobamos el CID. La aprobación fue abrumadora.
Firmamos un documento sin saber el problema tan grande que eso iba a causar.
Pero lo mas penoso fue que confiamos en "hombres de Dios"! Que ignorantes fuimos.
"No sabeis que maldito el hombre que confia en el hombre?"
Nosotros pastores sin saberlo iniciamos todo este mole. Esto sirve para analizar antes de actuar.
Ya con lo que ha sucedido no vuelvo a confiar en ninguno de ellos, pues todos han llegado a esas alturas usando politica barata.
No podemos negar que llevamos todavia el nopal en la cara.
Parecemos politicos mexicanos usando la adulacion, el amiguismo y hasta el abuso de poder para llegar a la cima olvidandonos de hacer y someternos a la voluntad de Dios.
yo recuerdo meses antes de las elecciones asistir a uno de los servicios de "mision mundial" que Abel Aguilar organiza en su iglesia. Sam Valverde (como siempre de orgulloso y creyendose el ultimo 7up del desierto) contaba desde el pulpito una experiencia en la que el Pastor Aguilar le invito a cenar a un restaurante bien caro.
Ahà mi mente se abrió y tuve que reprender sin saberlo al Diablo por que pense "estos han de haber platicado de posiciones en la Mesa Directiva". Unos meses despues, BANG!, Abel Aguilar Secretario de Misiones.
Oh Dios, nos diste el don de disernimiento y no lo sabemos usar. Nos confunde mas por que creemos en veces que el enemigo es quien nos siembra semillas de duda en el corazon.
Muchos pensaran "Para que aguilar quiere un puesto en misiones? Los 500,000 que el envio a su JR para el templo en Long Island hablan por si.
UPD
PD: Aún sigo respetando y admirando en unos puntos a estos hombres, pero de confiar en ellos para cargos como esos, JAMAS!.
UPD
Translation for spanish_voice
I don’t plan on going to court. I don’t want to weep or die of a heart attack in front of everybody if the judge fails the Apostolic Assembly.
It is possible that he does. Why?
Because we pastors (who like to say amen to EVERYTHING!) approved the CID. The approval vote was by Super Majority.
We signed a document without knowing what big a problem it was going to cause.
But the most shameful thing is that we trusted in “men of God”! How ignorant we were.
Don’t you know that “Cursed is the one who trust in man”
We pastors, without knowing it, started this quandary. This serves us to analyze before acting.
With what has happened I will not trust in any of them again, since they all have reached these positions using cheap politics.
[We can’t deny that we still have a cactus on our face] Euphemism akin to “fresh off the boat” meaning “Mexican - implying ignorance”
We are like Mexican politicians using flattery, connections and even abuse of power to get to the pinnacle, forgetting to submit to the will of God.
I remember months before the elections I attended one of those “World Mission” services that Abel Aguilar organizes in his church. Sam Valverde (as always proud and “thinking he’s the last 7up in the desert” *Spanish expression*) told a story from the pulpit in which Pastor Aguilar invited him for dinner at a very expensive restaurant.
That is when my mind was opened and at the time I rebuked the devil for my thought was “ these were probably talking about positions on the General Board.” A few months later, BANG! Abel Aguilar, Secretary of Missions.
O God, you gave us the gift of discernment and we don’t know how to use it. We get confused because we think that it is the devil who plants seeds of doubt in our heart.
Many think “What dos Aguilar want a position in missions?” The $500,000 that he sent to his Junior for the temple in Long Island speak for themselves.
UPD
PS. I still respect and admire these men, in some regards. But to trust in them for positions like these, NEVER!
sister from central san jose,
central has always struggled. just because there was a an organist and a pianist all at one time doesn't mean years of glory. Peter Meza did his best with music, and did a wonderful job. But while those who actaully had a passion were trying their best with so little, Ishmael Arellano was failing in his sermons, leadership and people skills. HIs sermons were always about who went to the movies and who cut their hair and who is wearing opentoe shoes. I always afraid of bringing some of myneighbors to church because I knew he would always be yelling at the congregation and scolding them. He picks on women alot! I've seen him yell at his wife in front of his members, I've seen him pick on so many girls for little things and belittle them, and I've heard him insult his own mother from the pulpit! So I am not suprised that he abandoned his daughter so he can reach out and start churches half way across the world. Just a few weeks ago he said his ministry comes before his family, he said that's his motto and he will never change it - well ti doesn't take a dumy to figure that one out.
I'm sorry sister from central, but just because he's sick doesn't mean it's ok to be condescending, mean and a dead beat dad. The facts are there, he's pastored central for 20 years and still the church struggles and has not grown AT ALL. Another fact, he went several decades without seeing his firstborn daughter while everyother week he was in chile, argentina, spain, italy, brazil, mexico, honduras, visiting the bretheren in the missions. Another fact, he put many many people on probation for cutting their hair, yet his associatepastor soninlaw sold beer and wine and coffee as a business.
This is the message that the board has been sending out for years. "we are ok if you abandoned your daughter, ruin your church, and sell beer to the world."
Our board has always been sick, from the very beginning.
Is it possible we are taking "church" way too seriously?
Think of it, outside of those on the payroll, pastors, ministers, praise teamers, musicians, etc..., does thie church, like the AA, make a difference in our lives?
I'm not talking about our personal relationship with God. I'm just wondering if all this mess actually would be better for our community.
As they say, follow the money......
To the sister from Central:
What about the associate pastor son in law? You have not defended that, or is that true that he sell bear and wine?
Wow he sells bears hugh ?
Bear meat , bear pelts or the whole bear ?
Hee Hee Hee
Whats wrong with a little bit of wine every now and then.
People are so trained and conditioned to not think for themselves.
The Bible says drunkards shall not inherit the kingdom.
Not casual / social drinkers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic53gNr7qvU
People already do not respect these guys.
Honestly I think he is kind of GAY.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WtCki-RO8g&feature=related
look at how he moves his head and clap his hands.
Emotional preachings.
It would be a Real Miracle if:
A. Jason Aguilar healed someone
with a head cold.
B. Jason Aguilar actually Taught
the Word.
C. Jason Aguilar would get his
Sermons Sponsored by
Cyberwize.
D. Jason Aguilar would learn to
espeak espanish.
Was that a "Crusade"? Looking into the crowd, of about 50 people, there doesnt look like there are any SOULS....Only Talibanos.
I love the AA.
We have "Revivals".
When the only thing need "Reviving" is something DEAD.
We have "Conferences" that do not have Conferences but endless preachings.
Every other Praise Teamer records a Release CD and Swears they are a recording artist because they have a Myspace Music account.
Where we have Conventions where we pay "Admission" but are pimped for a "Love Offering" to cover last years Convention.
Where we have "Elections" only to have those Voted for given the boot and have the GB Buddies and Relatives APPOINTED.
Where you can be 32 and be grouped with the Grupo de Jovenes with 13 year olds.
Where we have "Crusades" with no souls attending.
Where we raise money for Missionaries where only 10% of the money raised gets to the Missionary and 90% goes to "Administration".
Freeking AA is AWESOME!!
How do you know you're in an apostolic church?
1. When your pastor introduces an invited revivalist as an original, healing, knock-your-socks-off, never-been-better, our one and only, wait till you hear him, hell dismissing, heaven welcoming evangelist - and Ceniseros steps up to the mic with newspaper clippings in hand, tears on one cheek, bangs covering left eye, right eye is bloodshot, and a smile on his face.
2. When your invited evangelist says two hundred received the HG - but there were only 55 people present. Hmmmmm.
3. When your pastor adds one more tongue-talker to his glory board after hearing "la-la-la-la-slurp-la-la-la".
You know you're an apo that grew up in the 90's if...
1. ... you know "Joy Unspeakable" by memory. This will also make you a CT groupie.
2. .... your youth choir sang "STOMP"
You know you're an apo that grew up in 200X if:
1. You think Jason Aguilar always knew spanish.
2. You're surprised to discover that 2 votes can actually get you places.
3. Your pastor advises you to buy pirated copies of movies in order to avoid being at the movies.
And the number one way you know you're an apo that grew up in 200X.....
drum roll.....
if there are more whistleblowers than super bowl sunday.
Ta-da!
Hey,
Have you guys seen the Youth Convention Interviews?
Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fi5BZzgpts
Paul,
That last video was hilarious. I can't believe how limited in vocabulary our Apostolic young people and even older people are.
"It was awesome...."
Every single person said the same thing! That was funny to see. And every now and then the more "spiritual" ones threw in some illusions of deep spiritual thought like,
"I came to be transformed... that was awesome."
Our future GB guys, get ready.
Yeah, I dont mean to bash on them because all of them are good guys...but the key word was "awesome"...
Future General Board? Well, lets just say we hope we survive this one....
After watching that AWESOME video, Convention was AWESOME. Those we some AWESOME interviews. I heard there were some AWESOME and mighty preaching that Transformed lives in an AWESOME way. I can't wait for next years AWESOME convention because its going to be AWESOME. That hotel was AWESOME too. They have an AWESOME Buffet and some AWESOME Service. Those National MOP Leaders are AWESOME and DID and AWESOME job in an AWESOME way.
I feel AWESOME today! I need to do something AWESOME for God because I know this sunday is going to be AWESOME because my pastor is going to preach an AWESOME Message. And the youth choir is going to sing some AWESOME songs....
Have an AWESOME day you all!!
Note to Self:
Next Years Christmas List.
Buy 3 Webster's Thesaurus Dictionaries. Send Special Delivery Urgent to:
Frank Balboa
Mr. Carranco
Steve Montenegro
To that sister who drove 26 hours from Sacramento, let her know God invented, with the help of the Wright Brothers, the COMMERCIAL AIRPLANE.
That would really be AWESOME!
We should take up an AWESOME Offering to send our MOP Leaders to Special Ed Classes to take that basic english class. Shoot, Paisas who take Ingles Sin Barreras have a better vocabulary.
chale from up a paisa over here
it was awsome to hear she drove 26 hrs for a convention that was awesome, hopely she was not falling asleep on the road..gosh 26 hrs to drive to nasty texas.. awesome.....hopely she got some awesome phone numbers from the lobby ministry along with the latest awesome life changing experience videos of ct recordins with the awesome cd ministry of people that always go to make a quick buck from awesome choir recordings...awesomeeeeee...wow
que suaveeeee convention 2008 should be the best just like the rest of the other conventions:)
Well, going from Sacramento to Texas isn;t much of an improvment. Thats like moving from the Rancho to a Farm in Fresno. lol
Now that the country is in a Recession, the church should be doing some good business.
All that Depression, drug addiction, acoholism, spousal abuse, etc...that's just the perfect time to get people to the Lord.
More deadbeat dads means more single moms on welfare. I predict a Boom at FTC. Welfare means more guaranteed money from the Government where Malverde preaches hell if they don't tithe on their welfare checks.
Its Boom Time Church. People will be desperate for money to pay the renta. Thats how the Aguilars will rake in the money with Get Rich Quik Plans like Cyberwize. Shoot, even 2 vote Eddie can sell more cars and get some hermanos to sign their houses to him...
Boom Time People! Lets join the Apostolic Movement!
Alert! Alert!
From a Family Member
Bishop Abel Torres is in the Hospital for a heart problem. Lets keep him in our prayers.
This GB are killing our pastors.
HEARING RE: RESETTING 2-7-08 HEARING.
01/17/2008 - 8:30 AM DEPT. R12
BEN T KAYASHIMA PRESIDING.
CLERK: LUANN GEESINK
NOT REPORTED
-
APPEARANCES:
NO APPEARANCE.
-
PROCEEDINGS:
THE COURT HAS READ AND CONSIDERED PLAINTIFFS LETTER DATED 1-15-08 AND APPROVES SAME. MATTER
RESET AS STATED BELOW.
-
HEARINGS:
LAW & MOTION RE: DETERMINE VALIDITY OF ELECTION OR APPOINTMENT SET FOR 03/10/08 AT 08:30 IN DEPT. R12.
PLAINTIFFS OPENING BRIEF DUE 2-4-08 BY NOON. OPPOSITION DUE 2-21-08 BY NOON. REPLY DUE
2-28-08 BY NOON.
VACATE HRG HEARING SCHEDULED FOR 02/07/08 AT 08:30 IN DEPARTMENT R12.
NOTICE TO BE GIVEN BY PLAINTIFF.
ACTION - COMPLETE
=== MINUTE ORDER END ===
Breaking news!!!
Law suit
For reasons unknown to us, the pastors that have filed the law suit against the "Apostolic Assembly, the General Board and the Qualifying Commission" have amended their law suit and have now included and also suing former Board Members John Fortino and Luciano Montes.
Please keep Bishops Fortino and Montes in yourr prayers.
We also inform you that we have ceased Pastor Abel Torres from his Episcopal position and duties. He is no longer Bishop Supervisor of the Northwest Texas district. The reason is simply that a Bishop is an auxiliary of the President and is improper for a Bishop to be involved in a law suit againt his own Assembly. This decision was prayerfully and carefully considered by the General Board and is firm and irrevocable.
Because there is so much misinformation being disseminated verbally and electronically, we will periodically update you on these matters.
Furthermore, Bro Efrain Andrade (pastor) from Hilton Head, South Carolina, for justified reasons has been ceased from his pastoral duties and is no longer recognized as a minister in the Apostolic Assembly.
We request, in the love of Christ, that you reserve yourselves from extending invitations to church functions and events from the aforementioned.
Bishop Daniel Sanchez president
Bishop Edward Pacheco Secretary
Quote
That's an excellent way to get your point across SANCHEZ. You remind me of the MAFIA, you take out anyone who threatens you.
You've made a mockery of the church and have turned it into a MAFIA operation. You're slick, sly, convincing and you would probably be a very very successful crime boss.
Your product is salvation and you sell it to whom ever is willing to buy and you take it from those who don't give enough. You go after your competition and at times make every effort to destroy their lives by tossing them into the trunk of this empire you are a part of.
Good going bambino.
To: Spanish Voice
It is so sad to hear a pastor expressing himself the way you do.
It seems that you have resentment in your heart (like many other people in this blog)something that is not spiritually healthy.
It seems that your hurt because when you started a work, members of GB didn't accept your invitation, giving you the excuse that they were unable to. Has it ever cross your mind that infact they were unable to visit you. Maybe they had previous commitments or just too busy. It's silly to expect members of the GB to visit you. They are pastors, and have the responsability of the
position of the GB and also family to attend. Imagine if they accept every invitation of pastors trying to open a new work. I too am a pastor and also opened a new work that is above average in members but never expected Boardmember to visit me. And even if they did wrong by not visiting you if they were able to, the Bible teaches that love covers offenses but to publicize the offense is to cause division. Prov. 17:9
Another thing, I seriously doubt the members of the GB are calling you to visit your church.
Basicly you accuse them of not wanting to visit you because you couldn't afford a big offering for them and you have no facts to prove that.
You say that you respect somethings about these men, but how can you when you show no respect? You say about Bishop Valverde "como siempre de orgulloso y creyendose el ultimo 7up del desierto" is this any respect for a pastor to express himself about our Leadership. Beside he didn't say he went to a very expensive restaurant, he said his favorite restaurant, I was there when he said that, Carmines of New York is not a very expensive restaurant. And you think you can read their thoughts or know what they were thinking? Only God can do that.
Please don't reduce yourself to making attacks without basis like other commemtator of this blog. Live up to your calling.
Jude
8 Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority...
10 But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively...
16 These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.
Mathew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
Jose: Where did you retrieve your quote from??
OK- I'm just wondering HOW AA LETTERS can retrieve a personal letter (Torres to Sanchez- Dec 07) and can't retrieve a copy of the AMENDED COMPLAINT that was filed.
Bring back Nu-Vision.
Can that be confirmed? Why would Bro. Fortino be invited to speak at church which Bishop Torres pastor's if the Plaintiffs were suing him?
Fortino preached @ Torres' church? When?
Yes- I'm wondering where Jose got that info from and where he got the quote from.
The plaintiffs are suing Fortino and Montes in order to legally obtain information thats all,nothing personal.Its a fact folks.
"Hello", you naively say ". . . that's all, nothing personal."
During the discovery phase of a lawsuit, all you need to do is subpoena a witness to obtain information you need. You can issue a Request/Demand for Production of Records, which is a request that the witness produce certain documentation--you don't add them to a lawsuit. So no, that is NOT all.
What 'hello" said about it being nothing personal is correct. Both bro. Fortino and bro. Luciano are aware of that. In the letter "Jose" quoted, it says that Pres. Sanchez thought it wasn't appropriate for a Bishop to be involved in a lawsuit, but he doesn't realize that it is perfectly legal. Their decision has caused greater problems for them. They are destroying their own defense before the matter goes before the judge for a decision. Apparently, they are not following any legal advice whatsoever. Their decisions are guided solely by pride and arrogance. Judges don't like those 2 attorneys, "pride and arrogance." The GB will find out in the end that they have been in serious trouble the whole time. I have heard that the GB violated the constitution once again when they dismissed Bishop Torres. They did not follow the process stated in Article 36 of the Constitution. The same Constitution they want everybody else to abide by is the same one that they continue to grossly and consistently violate. I hear the Pres. told Bishop Torres that it was a resolution by the GB, but they never presented anything in writing to him. That is unconstitutional of course. I hear he still does not have anything in writing. All this took place during a time that Bishop Torres had notified the GB about his health condition. Evidentally, they are so callous that they could care less. I have heard that they did not really believe that he had health problems even when he told them. What does that tell you about their sensitivity and concern for a "Healthy Assembly, Healthy Pastors, Healthy churches?"
The letter "Jose" quoted comes from an official letter all the pastors received in the mail.
Maybe Bro. Torres has not received anything in writing because he's all the way in Texas and it takes the mail longer to get there.
lovenothate,
The mail takes longer because they're all the way in Texas? Do you live in the stone-age?
A document like that is fed-ex'ed, overnighted and certified.
You should NEVER EVER make a decision to remove a bishop without serving any documentation to said bishop. The necessary documents should have been in their hands when they removed the bishop. That is absolutely wrong and it is a shady practice - I'm not surprised at all.
dudeskie,
Maybe I do live in the stone age, but even if it's next day certified, the pastors that live locally to Headquarters might get info. next day on regular mail. On the other hand if it's certified the carrier has to get a signature and that can take longer than a couple of days.
As far as GB making that decision to remove a bishop, they have the authority in article 20 of AA Constitution.
lovenothate,
But I think it's been almost 3 weeks since the Bishop got removed. That's plenty of time to get caught up on the "delayed" paper work - if there is any.
The GB can claim all the articles in the AA Constitution they want. They are still making God look like a Bi-Polar Schkitzo.
With the AA, God has sure been changing His mind a lot. They say they pray for Gods will one day, Praise God's Will only to Change God's Mind.
Sanchez, Malverde, Pachuco and the rest of the Clan are making God to be an Indian Giver.
We request, in the love of Christ,Quote, to hate your brothers.
How is bishop Torres doing after his surgery? anyone please?
"This decision was prayerfully and carefully considered by the General Board and is firm and irrevocable."
quote from Sanchez
Looks like the bullies are out.
Looks like they get their kicks by being abusive.
If someone should be removed it should be the Honorable 2 vote Edward Pacheco.
Then he has the _alls to sign a letter like the one above.
His is nothing but a 2 bit scammer.
Sanchez is out of control. I hate to be in his shoes when God gets a hold of him. This I can say but he will be humbled in a big way.
Para Lovenothate:
Paz de Cristo Pastor
Primeramente mis disculpas si en algo le he ofendido con mis comentarios. SÃ, reconozco que es bien triste que un pastor se exprese de la manera con que lo hice, ya que como yo muchos otros pastores se sienten, totalmente usados, y con un gran temor de expresar nuestro desagrado sin esta mascara por que estamos vulnerables a perder lo que con tanto esfuerzo y misericordia de Dios hemos recibido.
Soy una persona de carne y hueso que no se complace con los que hacen maldad y engaño (Rom 1:24-32) y oro por aquellos que han fallado a reconocer su error con humildad (Lucas 18:14).
PermÃtame darle un análisis breve de su comentario hacia a mi.
Usted dijo:
“It seems that your hurt because when you started a work, members of GB didn't accept your invitation, giving you the excuse that they were unable to. Has it ever cross your mind that infact they were unable to visit you. Maybe they had previous commitments or just too busy. It's silly to expect members of the GB to visit you. They are pastors, and have the responsability of the position of the GB and also family to attend.”
Cuando a la verdad dije:
“Invite a algunos predicadores, evangelistas, pastores (incluyendo 3 que están ahora en la Mesa Directiva) y las respuestas fueron excusas de no poder venir.”
Nunca mencione que invite a miembros de la mesa directiva, dije tres que AHORA están en la mesa directiva, es decir (no estaban ahà hace 8 o 9 años atrás).
Si esa es la manera como usted lee la palabra de Dios y la interpreta (y no estoy diciendo que esta es la palabra de Dios, es solo una comparación) déjeme decirle que usted necesita clases de hermenéutica o poner más atención cuando lee.
Entiendo lo difÃcil que es para nuestros lideres visitar pequeñas obras y por eso nunca invite, ni he invitado, ni invitare a ninguno de los miembros actuales de la mesa directiva a nuestra iglesia. Si quieren venir ellos, que vengan, las puertas están abiertas.
Otra cosa que dijo fue:
“Another thing, I seriously doubt the members of the GB are calling you to visit your church.
Basicly you accuse them of not wanting to visit you because you couldn't afford a big offering for them and you have no facts to prove that.”
Nunca dije que ningún miembro de la mesa directiva me ha llamado para visitarme para poder predicar, lea ATENTAMENTE por favor:
“Ahora RECIBO llamadas de diferentes pastores, evangelistas. Mis respuestas han sido "NO!, nuestro schedulle esta lleno". Ahora que nuestra iglesia les puede recoger buenas ofrendas quieren venir.”
Acaso escribÃ, recibo llamadas de miembros de la mesa directiva? No, escribà pastores y evangelistas. Usted como pastor (si en realidad es pastor) sabe que cada mes recibimos decenas de llamadas de diferentes ministros, evangelistas y hasta pastores de otros lugares queriendo predicar por ayudas. Sabia usted que no fue hasta que tuvimos alrededor de 95 personas que estos hombres de Dios empezaron a llamar? (evangelistas y Pastores de otros lugares, no mesa directiva).
Usted me ha acusado de acusar a la Mesa de Directiva de no querer visitarme por que no tenÃamos suficiente dinero. Yo no he acusado a ningún miembro de la mesa. La próxima vez que lea algo aquà y/o en otro lugar por favor le recomiendo que lea con más atención.
Otra cosa que dijo fue:
You say that you respect somethings about these men, but how can you when you show no respect? You say about Bishop Valverde "como siempre de orgulloso y creyendose el ultimo 7up del desierto" is this any respect for a pastor to express himself about our Leadership. Beside he didn't say he went to a very expensive restaurant, he said his favorite restaurant, I was there when he said that, Carmines of New York is not a very expensive restaurant. And you think you can read their thoughts or know what they were thinking? Only God can do that.
Claro que respeto al hno. Valverde, el es nuestro vicepresidente, el esta legÃtimamente en esa posición por voluntad de Dios y la nuestra (votamos por el y el hno. Sánchez) y el es responsable ante Dios de sus acciones en la mesa calificadora. De que es orgulloso, esa es mi opinión personal. Que se cree el ultimo 7up del desierto? Su alter ego es demasiado. Escúchelo predicar.
Ahora bien mi parte favorita es esta:
Beside he didn't say he went to a very expensive restaurant, he said his favorite restaurant, I was there when he said that, Carmines of New York is not a very expensive restaurant. And you think you can read their thoughts or know what they were thinking? Only God can do that.
Quien dijo que yo leà los pensamientos, esto fue lo que dije: “Ahà mi mente se abrió y tuve que reprender sin saberlo al Diablo por que pensé "estos han de haber platicado de posiciones en la Mesa Directiva". Unos meses después, BANG!, Abel Aguilar Secretario de Misiones.
Por que pensé eso?
Porque anteriormente Abel Aguilar lo habrÃa calificado como su gran amigo y que si algo le pasare a su familia el hno. Valverde iba a tomar cuidado de ellos y viceversa. Sam Valverde y Abel Aguilar se confesaron el uno al otro tener gran amistad antes que Valverde predicara unos dÃas después.
Válgame Dios que gran coincidencia, que justo cuando tiene el hno. Valverde el poder de quitar y poner (gracias al CID) Abel Aguilar sea secretario de misiones. No hay que ser un Teólogo del Fuller o del Moody para darse cuenta de eso. Ni siquiera hay que (con todo temor de Dios) leer pensamientos. Es algo –obvio-. Por eso vuelvo y cito lo siguiente:
“Parecemos polÃticos mexicanos usando la adulación, el amiguismo y hasta el abuso de poder para llegar a la cima olvidándonos de hacer y someternos a la voluntad de Dios.”
Pueda ser hasta en “Juan Pollo” que se hayan reunido ellos, sus hechos demuestran que en algún lugar ya esto se habÃa planeado con anticipación.
Espero hermano que esta explicación le haiga abierto el entendimiento. Ya que por personas como usted estamos en este gran mole donde no sabe con que ingredientes lo comenzaron.
Gracias Pastor por los textos bÃblicos fueron de gran bendición para mi vida.
Mas ahora le invito a leer este texto de la palabra con la cual comparo la situación de la mesa directiva actual. Espero que la pueda entender mejor que mi carta.
Ezequiel 8:5-18
UPD
Estimado Pastor UPD:
Paz de Cristo.
Rachel Valverde and Cessa Mesa Aguilar have been e-mailing chums, part of the famous e-mailing Dorcas, ever since the e-mails started on the internet.
At one time, their fathers were enemies as the families were rivals for political positions in the Apostolic Assembly. Both families are hard core from Mexico.
Cessa wanted to get her husband, Abel Aguilar onto the National Board at all costs. She did everything to befriend Rachel. She humbled herself, pleaded and begged Rachel, e-mailing each day, sending gifts and gift cards, in order to get the two husbands (who were political enemies) together, in that Valverde had already been on the Board for 10 years. This needed to happen before the Long Beach convention of 2006 where the election fraud took place.
Sam Valverde should have been disqualified for any board position because according to the Constitution, he had to be at least four years a Bishop of any district.
But thanks to Baldemar Rodriguez, Valverde and Pacheco were excused from needing to be Bishops and were placed on the General Board.
Aguilar has never been a Bishop either. So how did the CID qualify him to be on the General Board?
So you see, Brother, when you saw Valverde and Aguilar together in the resturant, and you put two and two together, you were right, and it all culminated in Long Beach. But, it was their wives where were behind the scenes long before, to bring these two political enemies to a great meeting of the election fraud in Long Beach.
Just explaining the root of the real evils here, because many other good and worthy pastors who could have been Bishops or GB members have been eliminated or blackballed even before they were considered because of these kinds of behind-the-scenes conspiriacies that go on in the Apostolic Assembly every day.
As regards ‘Lovenothate’ this person got what you so eloquently said totally out of context, and you are so right, one has to understand what one reads before making off handed comments.
As far as Sam being arrogant, I suppose he is that way in order to cover up the insecurities he seems to feel, and it makes up for his lack of real leadership. He probably would have never been on the Board had he not been the son-in-law of David Contreras, who was a buddy to Baldemar.
THIS IS FIRM AND IRREVOCABLE!
In 1979, Clapton embarked on a brief affair with model, Jenny McLean. Pattie on learning about Clapton's infidelity, left him and flew to America. In an attempt to get Eric and Pattie back together, Clapton's manager, Roger Forrester took a gamble. He made a bet with Eric that he could get his name and photo in the next day's newspapers. Clapton took the bet and Forrester called a gossip columnist with the following item: "Rock Star Eric Clapton will marry Pattie Boyd in Tucson, Arizona next Tuesday." The item appeared in the next day's Daily Mail. Forrester had forced Clapton to decide whether or not he really wanted to be with Pattie. Clapton telephoned Pattie in Los Angeles to propose. The two were married on 27 March 1979 at the Apostolic Assembly of Faith in Christ Jesus in Tucson, Arizona by the Reverend Daniel Sanchez. To ensure privacy, Forrester booked six different churches for the occasion. A small reception was held that night at the hotel. The night after their wedding, Clapton brought Pattie on stage in Tucson so he could sing "Wonderful Tonight" to her. By the end of April, he sent Pattie home to England. When Clapton returned to England, they had a wedding party at their home, Hurtwood Edge on 19 May 1979. The invitation read:
The Letter quoted up above from the AA-HGB & a Letter from Bro. Abel Torres regarding his removal have both been posted on the AA.info website
Between_Us,
I am a witness to what you just posted. Yes, Sam Valverde and Abel Aguilar were enemies to the core. Sam Valverde and his wife reminded me of little teenagers because they were constantly saying rude and very very mean comments about the Aguilars, many times they would disclose a lot of personal info about them. The Valverde kids who were teens back then, would also buy into the whole Valverde/Aguilar rivalry and also say a lot of mean things about the Aguilars. I know because I was around them many many times and expected us to agree with them.
Yes, I was very surprised to find out that they are now buddy/buddy and are now both on the board. Believe me, to hear what I heard come out of the Valverde's and then watch them walk arm in arm with the Aguilars, just disgusts you.
The Valverdes are a family that you really have to be careful with. A lot of gossip goes on in their house about people, and if you push the wrong buttons or if your frienship toward them is not they way they like it, then they put you on their gossip list as well. How do I know? I've personally seen them do it in front of me many many many times. They will sing you praises one day as if you're the best thing that landed on earth, and one little foul-up and they ridicule you behind your back. It's awful.
Has anyone had the chance to see the new letter from Bishop Torres to President Sanchez? Seems to me that Bishop Torres knows what he is talking about.
Does President Sanchez even care about the Pastors? He doesnt give Bishop Torres proper documentation regarding the matter according to the constitution but He sends one out to all the Pastors.
In the process he is defaming a good name, Bishop Abel Torres. I hope everyone sees this is the kind of leadership we are following.
By the way...Where is Bishop Daniel Solomon? I thought he started all of this and it seems to me that he is letting Bishop Torres do all the work. All bark and no bite.
I honestly believe that is time for memebers of the AA to start flexing some muscle. Sanchez needs to be taught a lesson! Many of you may say that this is not God's will! Do you think the atrocities that Sanchez is committing are God's will? Sanchez continues to show his incompetency! Very unfortunate for you people.
Pastors have been ordered to teach on friendships groups for four weeks. What a joke!
After what the HGB has been up too, maybe a teaching on morals and respect for the whole AA.
A lession on whats wrong when you get to much power and it goes to your head, and of course we can't forget the greed.
Other important lessions:
How not to run an election, by trying hard to get your family in there for the postions.
How not to give your family and your church members all the jobs at headquarters.
How not to be a scum bag and go after other pastors that don't see your point of view.
Friendship? Ok, thats a start. I mean, Hell would literally have to freeze over before Malverde and Pachueco Live and Preach Ethics.
Hmmm, as Part of my growing in Friendship, I would like to invite Sister Jaime Aguilar Hernandez for some Latte' at OC's finest, Coffee Bean.
Sanchez and Pachaco want all the churches to become cell churches.
The only cell they should be worried about is the Cell where 2 vote Pacheco will spend his time when someone finally files charges against him for all his scams.
What happened to Danyoson? He supposedly found out that the name "between us" was actually Bishop Tafoya.
Danyoson referenced a fight at the Arizona Campground. Does anyone know what he was refering to?
Why did Danyoson sign off, what happened to him?
What happened to Bishop Tafoya, aka "between us"
Also, why are all of Danyoson's messages deleted? Only he or the blogmaster would have access to deleting the comments. Some thing smells fishy.
Bishop Tafoya, what are you up to now?
Eddie Pacheco is the Right Man to teach on Friendship. The Eddie Pacheco is a Great Friend on mine and we are Forever Best Friends.
Sincerely,
Satan
The down low is that Pacheco's son-in-law has left his church-, his asst pastor.
I heard the same thing--wasn't his asst pastor Yvie's husband? I heard his church has gone downhill but he portrays a different image elsewhere.
On a different note- if Brother Abel Torres was removed from his Episcopal duties because and I quote: " . . .a Bishop is an auxiliary of the President and is improper for a Bishop to be involved in a law suit againt his own Assembly." Why then wasn't he removed from Pastorship as well?
That's a lame excuse to remove him. If a Bishop is an auxilary of the President, who's a Pastor an auxilary to? If that is their reason, why not take them off of both? He's not suing them as a Bishop, he's also a Pastor. Just when I thought things couldn't get any more lame!!
Irrevokable . . . nonsense- in whose eyes? Theirs? Who do they think they're kidding? AND THEN they send the two who were not duly elected to remove a duly elected official??
Just boo them when we see them!!!
I must say that in the beginning of this whole debacle, without knowing much of the facts of information, I was on the General Board’s ‘side’. When I first heard about the possibility of a lawsuit, I questioned the plaintiffs’ side and wondered, ‘How dare they’! I questioned their loyalty, I questioned their tactics, their love for the work of the Lord, I questioned their love for this organization, I questioned their ministries, I questioned pretty much everything about them.
Here were are, a little over a year after this mess began and I have done a complete 360°. And I’ve done so for no other reason, than solely because of the own GB’s actions. Since the 2006 elections, they have proven to be the most ostentatious, arrogant, inept, unworthy, and pretentious group of men. Men that are not worthy to continue leading our organization. Men who don’t deserve the privilege of leading the most important people in all this, the Apostolic Assembly members. The ones who truly do the labor in raising the churches alongside their pastors, the ones who work hard to give to the ‘obras’, the ones who sometimes put their own families second or third so that the work of the Lord can go forward, the ones who tithe faithfully, the ones who are constantly working so that all the projects that are put before our churches are completed physically and financially. They’ve silenced our pastors with intimidation. Our voice may not be heard in elections or in Episcopal meetings, but our pocketbook can make a huge difference in the success of any district or national project set before us. They should remember that.
Their behavior has done our Assembly a huge disservice and has made a mockery of our election system. They should have stepped down when this whole mess started, but they didn’t because they didn’t think this was going to go as public as it has, and now, they wouldn’t do it out of sheer pride. Even though they portray a united front- I am sure there is dissention among the GB. And this is the Apostolic heritage I’m supposed to pass on to my children? This is the mantle?? This is a healthy church??
For removing him from his episcopal duties, Abel Torres has ANOTHER case against the GB- for retaliation- that's against the law no matter what state you're in. their reasons for doing so are not backed up by an outdated constitution and are not backed up biblically. their 'irrevocable' decision will not hold up in any court. If their reason(s) were valid and based on the outdated constition- why was he left as pastor then? he's a pastor of the assembly- of the same one he is suing.
I hope he sues and I hope any other pastor sues when they come knocking for his church for no good reason---because they CAN!!!!
Cheese:
If you do a 360 degree turn, you'll be in the same position you started. If you do a 180 degree turn, you'll be in the opposite position.
But we know what you meant.
The letter from the GB to the pastors: who translates for these guys? In the spanish version- under the heading Convencion General 2008- they state that " . . .at the convention in 2006 in Dallas Texas. . . " hello? the 2006 convention was in Long Beach.
This is the headquarters of a huge organization- can they not hire wordprocessors or executive secretaries that can actually type a letter and REVIEW them so that all correspondence goes out with no typos!! That's a reflection of them.
Did anyone notice the schedule for general convention in November? It's starts on Saturday morning after Thankgsiving! HMmmm, could it be that they heard the bloggers complaints????- The convention will now end on Wednesday. Hope its not a good turn out.
The two letters were not accurately translated either.
LOL!!!!!! Van- thanks for pointing that out!! OMG!! I'm NOT in the same place! I thought about it for a second before I typed it, but- hey- never said I was a math whiz!!!! :) thx!
Yeah, Bishop Torres is a great Man of God. We need to pray for His health that he may not give up.
He is fighting for Justice, for our church and for our future.
By the way, how ironic...Aguilar and Pacheco both were not elected yet they maintain their positions, while Bishop Torres was elected with the vote of the Pastors and he is removed...
Is something wrong here?
How retarded are the GB. They Schedule a Convention to start on Saturday and end on Wed.
Not like the rest of us have jobs, businesses and responsabilities.
Just goes to show you that the GB are divorcing the membership to have their own little club.
To borrow a line from NFL Referees:
"Upon further review, the Apostolic Assembly is hereby Ruled a CULT!"
You can have your Cult. I'm buzzing out the AA.
The problem here is the wives are running most of the AA.
Aguilar's wife wants to be a wife a HGB member so she can be treated like a queen when she walks into the room. Much like Rachel Malverde likes it. So she pretends to like Rachel calls her makes gifts to her, basic kisses her behind. Seeing that Rachel likes to have herself kissed up too, she don't let up till Rachel hits up sammy to put Abel as a HGB member, and that where we are right now.
Oh don't forget the little weasel 2vote Pacheco. He is the main reason the AA screwed up by letting him keep his position with a whopping 2 votes.
All the HGB members kids are all messed up 2. Thats a major problem that they can do and get away with everything, and sometimes get paid for it to like little Timmy
what exactly is the point in having a convention? what do we, as members, really benefit from a convention? Who DOES a convention benefit? Aside from paid travel and hotel accomodations for the GB, how do the rest of benefit from a convention???
Danyoson:
you mean YOU didn't delete them? what did you post??
It was confirmed yesterday that danyoson is fabricating things. Nothing happened to Sis. Sanchez. We also know who between us is. It isn't brother Art Tafoya. Dany is on a fishing expedition. He deleted his own blog.
To Danyoson:
WOW, you got your post deleted? I wonder why anyone would do this? Anyway how do you know that between us is Art Tafoya? This would be kind of hard to find out unless you have access to his computer. I do not believe Art. Tafoya is a violent man and I feel he is much more intelligent than to get into a physical altercation. If this did take place, please disclose the details. Who was the man? When did this happen? What are all the events that transpired that led to the physical altercation? Was this man placing anyone else in danger? If Bishop Tafoya indeed did fight, was he the aggressor or was he defending himself? Was he the only one involved in this altercation or were other people (ushers) involved? If yes please disclose the names. Did this event take place during a church function and if yes is there any documentation (police reports) to support your claim? Did you see this fight personally?
Danyoson please do not resort to character assassinations that the anti HGB bloggers have resorted to. I am not defending Bishop Tafoya, but I am asking you to disclose your proof, because I have never heard anything like this.
Wally Wilbur Wilfor
Did anyone notice the schedule for general convention in November? It's starts on Saturday morning after Thanksgiving! HMmmm, could it be that they heard the bloggers complaints????- The convention will now end on Wednesday.
Quote
Ah the power of this BLOG.
Its true the bloggers change the convention date. Its a fact folks.The pastors never suggest the idea of changing the dates it was moved because of the complaints in this blog.
Keep pushing we are making the difference already.
I'm surprise that this mess is not in the news L A Times, Inland Empire news etc.
But acorrding to the letter on Apostolic news signed by Sanchez and Pacheco it states it was their idea support by the ministers to change the dates of the convention
How you don't think Sanchez and 2 vote eddie would lie to us?
I mean if you can't believe and trust our HGB who can you trust?
I got a name for the movie regarding the Apostolic Assembly:
CULT Fiction
lol
Danyoson
just report the news folks as I am told. Believe it or Not.
As far as details are concerned, there are plenty of Glendale, Az members to colaborate...
January 21, 2008 8:35 PM
So you report the news (gossip) as you are told? So who told you this? I know a few people from the Glendale church and I have never heard this. Maybe you cannot report details because you are being dishonest about Art. Tafoya. By the way, You still did not answer my question as to how you discovered Art. Tafoya to be the alias "Between us?" Probably because you can't.
Apostolic insider is probably correct about you fabricating stuff.
You said believe it or not I choose not.
Wally Wilbur Wilford
It appears that both letters written by Bishop Abel Torres have been updated and edited. It seems that they are now identical letters.
someone wrote yesterday that Pacheco's assistant pastor, his son-in-law, had left Corona church. Can anyone verify this or have more info? I've heard it here and there but nothing substantial.
Where's A. Mike?
I admire Bishop Abel Torres for the way he is handling this situation. The only thing he is guilty of is being a witness to the mishandling of votes during the electoral process. He has yet to do anything wrong, yet he is being treated like a fraud and a misfit.
In him, a perfect picture of the Gospel lies. An upright man in the eyes of God, yet in the eyes of man a threat to position and power. A compassionate man in the eyes of God, yet in the eyes of man rebellious and prideful. Sealed with a good name, the name of his father - he is discharged in the name of dominance. Removed from his earthly earning, his cry for justice clearly rings. A cry that cannot be shut, a cry that cannot be silenced, a cry that will be heard until his father's will is done.
Bishop Abel Torres is indeed Christ-like and is a perfect picture of the gospel. If I can pattern myself after this man, I think I'll be alright.
Desperate for a role-model,
Repus
So, whats the latest news from our church turned CULT?
Repus, I assure you that your kind words have been very comforting to all the family of Bishop Abel Torres. His mother has been very disappointed with the actions of the General Board. She, like her husband, Ex Bishop Valentin B. Torres, has always been loyal and respectful to our leaders. She is 79 years of age, but she still works faithfully for the Lord and the Apostolic Assembly. She has been extremely saddened by what has occurred. She is also grateful that many like you have been supportive of her son and the brothers who are seeking justice.
You know you are in a Cult when a Bishop, former Bishop is named a Martyr.
Abel Torres is out Martyr! We must go on Apostolic Jihad! Jihad will be taken to Rancho Cucamonga!
Van- leave it up to you with you retarded comments! That is funny!
Yes! Jihad to Rancho!!!!
LOL!!
Thank you. Retardation is my specialty. I was taught by the best.
Malverde
Sanchez
Buffet, I mean Maffey
Lopez
Lopez
Hernandez
Aguilar
I'm the Retard Fruit of their Labor! lol
PTL! I just think al lthis is so sad I jus thope that Sanchez will leave the AA and leave everbody alone!!!!
The Great Edward Pacheco will be preaching at end times on march 6th in the evening along side T.F. Tenney.
Wonder what Tenney feels about preaching next to a scammer, and cheat?
But I guess he is there because he is Lopez's golfing buddy.
Court being that following monday the 10th I guess he will still be the Sec.
To everyone, hello. New to blogging so if I make a mistake don't kill me :-)
Anyway, just thought I'd write and send a few links here and there just to liven the mood up a bit being that there is a lot of tension in most of what I have been reading. Especially towards the GBM.
I was recently at one of the services at FOTC and my God can they worship!! I had a great time. The preaching is exceptional and I can see why they are growing so much.
I used to be very judgemental about that church and have since then realized how wrong I was about the fellowship there. Very friendly folks.
I am extremely saddened by the goings on at HG. I pray that there will be an end to all this madness.
I do have one question for anyone who would like to comment though:
If there is an outing of the present HGB, will that satisfy us all? Will that sense of vengeance be sufficient to calm our sentiments? I don't know that it will.
I hope that there will be some resolution to this quickly and when there is, what will we talk about then?
Oh well, gotta go set my tee-time.'
Oops, I meant GHB, GH...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxQcb09eDOs&feature=related
As a pastor I'm open and welcome dialoge and respectful debate regarding the situation (law suit) in our Assembly. I do not condemn questions and difference of opinions. I understand people will no agree 100% in every issue. But i believe resorting to name calling and disrespecting GB members and their family only discredits this blog. The pastors are the ones that will able to make changes in our assembly. Pastors can change the AA constitution (even the CID doc.), pastors can vote out of office people they see need to be out. We can even over rule the GB with our votes on proposals. But all this requires time. Most pastors are willing to listen to inteligent comments with substance, hears facts about the issue. But hearing you insult our leader worries us (it's especially sad to hear pastors use insults, what a shame)thats not the way to go. Even the plaintiffs think the same thing, for example to quote Bro. Abel Torres
"How unfortunate that this matter has been handled more by people on the “blogs” than by us. Some of them have no love for our organization whatsoever. They have taken over because the people that should handle this matter have failed to do so. It is unfortunate that several members of the General Board and their families have suffered greatly from personal attacks by people who have no love for the Church".
Bro. Torres feels that people who make these attacks have no love for the AA. Bro. Torres wouldn't like to be associated with most people of this blog or would want them on his side.
Please be wise about your comments. Remember
Mathew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
insulting the GB will make you liable to the fire of hell.
Right now you disrespect the GB and some Bishops, next you'll be disrespecting all the pastors even your pastor.
Yeah, FOTC is a good place to fellowship. Seriously. For a good social life, its cool.
Even more so if you make it around all the "Bases" there.
La Puente Bible Schoolers are good about putting on a good show.
Its better to be Spiritually Shallow than not to be spiritual at all.
Yeah, FOTC is a good place to fellowship. Seriously. For a good social life, its cool.
Even more so if you make it around all the "Bases" there.
La Puente Bible Schoolers are good about putting on a good show.
Its better to be Spiritually Shallow than not to be spiritual at all.
tWith all due respect Pastor love not hate. You say that the HGB and their familys have been hurt.
The problem is that nobody ever thinks about us the members. Some of us have been hurt alot by non caring bishops when we have gone to them for help. A lot of members have been hurt by family members, because they feel they are above all of us because of the postion their husbands, fathers, grandfathers, in-laws, cousins have.
So you talk about hurt. What do you think the percentage is? There is alot more hurt on the side of the general membership done by a so chosen few. You talk about respect. What kind of respect have we been shown? Enought is enought!
Sanchez and company had a chance to resolve this in-house, but because of pride and greed and arrogance, they have chosen to take the road of the wicked.I'm not angry, I have just had enough, its time for all the AA to stand up and and put a stop to this, because right now we are on a slide down hill and it has to stop it.
Tell all the hermanos who the Honorable Edward Pacheco has scammed your story. When after they got taken they went to their pastors and were told not to say anything, and yet this man with only 2 votes wins a position that he usesto his own personal benfit. Now thats really respectful to all of us.
The the problem with the AA its a borderline of not already a cult. And Good men of God like Bishop Torres are been made scape goats, for standing up. You have to give respect fiest to receive it, or are you one of those Pastors that goes to your church and sit at the throne as a lord, instead of a servant as the Bible says a Pastor, Bishop should be.
If you think I was been disrespectful to you, then I'm sorry, but this is my opinion.
Lovenothate:
There's this passage in the Bible I have memorized for occasions like this.
"Thou Shalt Reap what thy Sow."
The Members of the AA GB have been planting for decades. They are just now Reaping their Harvest.
To ring of fire:
I did not say that the family of boardmembers has suffered, I was quoting Bishop Torres (letter to Bishop Sanchez). The man you so much respect, as a do, said this and I agree with him.
As far as members saying their opionion go ahead but don't condemn yourself by using insults.
To van:
Just be careful what your sowing because that's what you'll reap.
To Lovenothate,
Many pastors unlike Torres are afraid to go against the tide because of potential repercussions. Many are just so complacent with where they are, a 60 to 70 member church is good enough for them it provides a hefty $350.00 salary. Others they just don't want to get their hands dirty for a healthier AA. Just let the others do the dirty work and when it all settles down then they come out of there chicken coops cock-a-doodling like it is going out of style! Therefore it is time for the members to start putting a squeeze on the AA the pastors have had their opportunity. They have proven themselves not capable of putting up a good fight against an organization run by bullies. I gaurantee you that a financial squeeze will bring results! It is time to hit em where it hurts the most! $3 million dollars is not much of an operating budget if you ask me the well could easily run dry if the members put a financial squeeze on the AA. I totally respect you comments I just don't totally agree with you.
MGBY
Love not hate,
I agree that it is wrong to speak ill of The Men of God.
However you are missing the point entirely.
We speak against their actions because we believe that they are NOT true Men of God.
They have been appointed by Man and not anointed by God.
Their actions clearly show that they have the Spirit of Balaam and not the love of Christ.
So do we criticize The Men of God no we do not. We criticize the wolves in sheeps clothing that were set aside to ministry because of who they know.
And here before us you have the results and fruits of their false ministries.
A true Man of God would NOT involve himself in fraud, deception and greed.
You defend Pachueco in error.
This man told his congregation to stop evangelizing poor people or else they would never be able to build the temple he wanted to build.
Hows that for a true man of God ????
What do you expect from someone that only got 2 votes. Probably one was his own. The other probably from malverde or his golfing buddy Adam Lopez who puts him at end time preaching right before T F Tenney.
Thats why no body voted for him, because they the Pastors know what he really is. He is nothing but an apointee. He is one of the main reasons why we are on this course.
Lovenothate:
Please perform extraction procedure by immediately extracting, with whatever force possible, the craneum of your person from the canal located immediately near the glubbious maximus of your person.
In other words, get you head out of you nalga.
The GB is Reaping the Grief they have sowed.
Yes, I will reap what I sow and not deny or cry. Thats part of being an accountable member of society.
Unlike the Pimps in Rancho.
aaaay Van - -
it's cranium, not craneum
it's gluteus maximus. not glubbious.
Portate bien Van- no andes de peleonero!! Le voy a decir a tu papa!!
Jihad to Rancho!
Happy:
Thanks for the correction. Those psyentific words aren't part of my daily lingo....lol
Jihad Si! GB No!
There is a humanoid form in Mars (Fox News) is believed to be a bishop hiding the 2006 ballots.
Looking at this Pastor's comments (Love not hate) its seems like he is relative to the Valverdes or somebody in the HGB one way or another.
And every time he type something, it has no sense at all.
1st, he take out of context what the spanish voice wrote.
2nd, he makes a no sense comment about the pastoral letter that bro Abel did not receive before his destitution.
3rd he come back trying to be the martir of the HB members.
in all 3 ocasions he got beat up by everybody. Not knowing how to answer back and Just giving out some bible scriptures. Then he change his subject to a new one.
Please pastor I would like to know who you are, because if you are my pastor I shame on you.
to the_:
speaking of no sense at all, where did you learn to write & spell?
don't get all "butt hurt" about it, no need to get defensive-- I think you may have valid points, if only you would slow down, you may be able to get them across in a more sensible way.
PEACE!
to the_:
Uh, I thinking more better fur yu to writing en spanish...
Mejor hablenos es espanol. Su inlges no muy bueno.
First timer here..
I don't understand the whole fuss about the GB removing Bro. Torres from his position. It's actually a brilliant legal maneuver. If the "plaintiffs" are using the legal system to help their cause, why can't the GB do the same? All of you here didn't like the move, but from a pure legal standpoint, I would have done the same thing if I were in their shoes.
A presbiter is in a position of power in our organizational structure. Think of a Bishop as a manager in a corporation. If this manager has a conflict with the corporate officers, these corporate officers are within their right to relieve him from his duties while the conflict is worked out.
I think most of you who post here have already made up your mind as to whom is at fault in this mess. I'd rather wait for the judge to decide. Most of you here have no legal training whatsoever and yet are making accusations and declarations that are outlandish.
The issues of law in this lawsuit are very technical. This is not a "slam dunk" type of case by any means. The plaintiffs carry the burden to prove with a proponderance of the evidence that the elections were fraudulently carried out.
I give no one the benefit of the doubt, because there are agendas on both sides of the aisle.
Everyone is giving Bro. Torres a free pass with his involvement in this mess, but he's been in office a long time and I know that "politics" always plays a part in every presbiter's administration, no matter how holy and righteous they claim to be. Don't tell me he's never held a grudge against someone who crossed him, or that he's used his position of power to make a decision that affected a pastor or a congregation in a negative way.
Let me pose a question. Everyone here is no sure that the judge will throw out the election. But what if he doesn't? what if the defendant's prevail? will someone accuse the judge of being crooked as well?
appoww08,
There is one credible and undeniable fact on which this case rests on:
A man was appointed a position for which he only had two votes for.
This my friend is the center of everything. This my friend can not be disputed and it is unethical. If a judge deems this to be ok, then legally, according to the judge it is ok. However, in the eyes of God, to overrule a prayerful vote is wrong and weakens our trust in the AA pastoral system. This gives absolute power to only a handful of men whom I can count with one hand.
Third-world countries govern this way, all power lies in the hands of a small group of men who are either related or very good friends. They have no checks and balances and kill those who appose them.
Hmmmm.. could this be why the AA is considered an official cult? The GB has a tight grip on power, so tight that it is choking the life out of the very organization that helps feed their children.
to Cheese and TeeTime:
Sorry guys for my not good english, i hope you guys understand my point.
The problem also is that I am doing all possible to learn this wonderful language.
I am from Guadalajara and I have been here in Southern California already a while (15 years).
All my kids speak english and I am doing all possible to learn.
My apologies.
The___
Why do I get the feeling that you're faking your bad English grammar in order to add another layer of anonymity to yourself?
If my feeling is wrong (which I highly doubt), good luck on your learning English. You're doing a fine job.
Your chicano buddy,
Dudeskie
dudeskie,
With what evidence do you base your assertion that someone only received two votes? Are you relying on a third party for such information? Does Bro. Torres have documentation proving his accusations or will his argument in court be solely based on his word?
Like I said, I'm not taking sides on this. I'd rather wait for the legal system to run its course. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the judge threw out the lawsuit, unless the plaintiffs have a smoking gun that we haven't heard of.
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the judge threw out the lawsuit, unless the plaintiffs have a smoking gun that we haven't heard of.
THEY DO trust me.
appoww08,
I don't have any documentation whatsoever. I am only relying on three things:
*The statements of Abel Torres who was a member of the QC.
*The fact that not one pastor has come out to say that he indeed voted for Edward Pacheco. If these pastors who voted for him would come out and say so, then they would save the AA a lot of money, and more importantly could help save a lot of broken friendships. None have come out because there are none who voted for him.
*Arguments that I've heard for myself between current GB members of what transpired at the elections. I'll tell you this much, not all on the GB are in agreement with the way Edward Pacheco was placed on the board.
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